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momoneyyyy
05-16-2014, 02:31 AM
okay so he's highly regarded as the best pg in the game but he has NEVER led a team past the second round. Why doesn't he get the blame like a player like Melo? Honestly I would be more confident in a player like rose or curry leading a team further in the playoffs than him. A healthy warriors led by curry would've knocked the cp3 clippers out of the playoffs. I just wanna see why does he always get a pass. Would you guys be more confident in a player like rose or curry leading your team further? I think if replace u paul with curry or rose on the clippers they're in the WCF for sure.

P&GRealist
05-16-2014, 02:34 AM
Usually, high volume shooters looking to score will be criticized almost always moreso than a point guard distributor. It's just the way the basketball fan and media human brain works and interprets in seeing who they want to attack. Truth is, both should equally be criticized.


But at least Melo led the Nuggets to the 2009 WCF. So technically he's gotten out of the 2nd round at least once in his career. That's more than CP3 can claim.

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2014, 02:35 AM
Why would u feel more confidence in rose or curry when one is injury prone and the other hasnt been past the 2nd round either.....?

I'm expecting cp3 bashing tomorrow so he won't be getting any "passes"

zn23
05-16-2014, 02:41 AM
Well it's not like CP3 has played bad during those stretches. He has posted very good career playoff numbers. He's had a couple years where he's been bad in the playoffs. But he's been good the last couple years in the playoffs.

Hotone1401
05-16-2014, 02:41 AM
I mentioned this before in another thread when we had PSD vote for CP3 over Kobe (disrespectful). CP3 is individually the best PG in the league. The guy has every skill and no holes in his game. But even with all that talent I believe he's still limited in how far he can take a team because of his size. Also, seeing as how he is the ultimate ball dominating PG, his teams will only go as far as he can take them.

CP3 is great. He's just relied on way too much for his teams. The guy is responsible for almost every offensive play for the Clips and that's not how you win in the postseason. You a collective effort from everyone and schemes to attack defenses in other way besides a high pick and roll. Blake was great this series. I just wish we saw more of him in the post.

One note, Russell Westbrook this series was just bigger, stronger, more athletic, and faster than CP3 and that was a factor.

momoneyyyy
05-16-2014, 02:42 AM
Why would u feel more confidence in rose or curry when one is injury prone and the other hasnt been past the 2nd round either.....?

I'm expecting cp3 bashing tomorrow so he won't be getting any "passes"

Well paul has been in the league much longer. We saw curry take the spurs to 6 last year a team that was a shot away from being the champions. This year the warriors took the clippers to 7 and almost pulled out on the road while missing their best defensive presence all series and a big contributor in o'neal for game 7. a healthy rose has shown that he can lead a team to the conference finals unlike paul

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2014, 02:44 AM
Well paul has been in the league much longer. We saw curry take the spurs to 6 last year a team that was a shot away from being the champions. This year the warriors took the clippers to 7 and almost pulled out on the road while missing their best defensive presence all series and a big contributor in o'neal for game 7. a healthy rose has shown that he can lead a team to the conference finals unlike paul
I'd bet cp3 would easily get the clippers to the conf finals in the crappy east.

momoneyyyy
05-16-2014, 02:45 AM
if anyone leads the clippers its going to have to be griffin

Chronz
05-16-2014, 02:47 AM
Cuz arbitrary number of rounds won is arbitrary in a team game. CP3 lost, he played a good series but he was out done and failed to elevate his level of play like a true superstar. Its a dent in his career, no doubt, but I dont see this monumental failure (save for his pathetic display at the end of G5), if you want to boil an entire series down to that sequence of hilarious blunders, then I understand the extreme nature here. CP3 is no longer the clear cut best at his position, that much is certain, but why do we have to punish players for losing hard fought series? I understand the backlash when players perform miserably despite favorable situations, but these were 2 stacked squads colliding, no matter who lost, there would be someone pointing the finger at someone.

CP3 is relatively young, hes got a good squad around him, if the Sterling situation gets settled quickly, the team can and will move forward.



That or he bolts to the Lakers/NY

Iron24th
05-16-2014, 02:47 AM
because flopping leads you nowhere, you have to be tough when you are a PG, see Payton, TP, etc

Sevilla91
05-16-2014, 02:48 AM
PG's are just overrated in todays game. The past 4-5 years of nba champions have no great point guards...you need to have better front court more than anything...i wouldnt trade dirk for paul even...he is good...just what it takes to win a championship

Sevilla91
05-16-2014, 02:49 AM
if CP3 never hurt his knee.....things could be different

Chronz
05-16-2014, 02:50 AM
BTW, look at the teams Melo faced, look at his performance throughout the playoffs.

Why is Melo in this class?

zn23
05-16-2014, 02:51 AM
Cuz arbitrary number of rounds won is arbitrary in a team game. CP3 lost, he played a good series but he was out done and failed to elevate his level of play like a true superstar. Its a dent in his career, no doubt, but I dont see this monumental failure (save for his pathetic display at the end of G5), if you want to boil an entire series down to that sequence of hilarious blunders, then I understand the extreme nature here. CP3 is no longer the clear cut best at his position, that much is certain, but why do we have to punish players for losing hard fought series? I understand the backlash when players perform miserably despite favorable situations, but these were 2 stacked squads colliding, no matter who lost, there would be someone pointing the finger at someone.

CP3 is relatively young, hes got a good squad around him, if the Sterling situation gets settled quickly, the team can and will move forward.



That or he bolts to the Lakers/NY

Well said.

This was just a hard fought series between two of the top teams in the league. The Thunder were just the better team.

Chronz
05-16-2014, 02:57 AM
Blake was great this series. I just wish we saw more of him in the post.

One note, Russell Westbrook this series was just bigger, stronger, more athletic, and faster than CP3 and that was a factor.
Did you not watch the series? Have you not read the recaps/articles detailing how the post game has evaporated because Ibaka defends Blake very well 1 on 1. Westbrook outplayed CP3 but the overall team defense had unacceptable lapses. CP3's defense was an asset this series tho.

JJ_JKidd
05-16-2014, 02:58 AM
Lets put an end to all the "best" accolades. Its all just a bunch of crap.

Chronz
05-16-2014, 03:04 AM
Lets put an end to all the "best" accolades. Its all just a bunch of crap.

Maybe so, but it can still be fun

IKnowHoops
05-16-2014, 03:08 AM
I mentioned this before in another thread when we had PSD vote for CP3 over Kobe (disrespectful). CP3 is individually the best PG in the league. The guy has every skill and no holes in his game. But even with all that talent I believe he's still limited in how far he can take a team because of his size. Also, seeing as how he is the ultimate ball dominating PG, his teams will only go as far as he can take them.

CP3 is great. He's just relied on way too much for his teams. The guy is responsible for almost every offensive play for the Clips and that's not how you win in the postseason. You a collective effort from everyone and schemes to attack defenses in other way besides a high pick and roll. Blake was great this series. I just wish we saw more of him in the post.

One note, Russell Westbrook this series was just bigger, stronger, more athletic, and faster than CP3 and that was a factor.

I agree with much of this, although I have no problem with people taking CP3 over Kobe, or the other way around. He is so good at what he does, that he is relied on so much to "run" the offense every time down. This does two things that hurt him and consequently his teams IMO

1. tires him out a bit
2. takes away from his ability to be a finisher/scorer

Point 1. If you have to bring the ball up every time, your going to get tired. You can't take any plays off. There are many times when Lebron is tired and he will just go sit in the top right corner with his man on him and do nothing but rest and let his team run a play without him. CP3 needs these moments as well but he doesn't get them.

Point 2. What I am about to say contributes to his overall tiredness. Every point he gets, he basically is creating his own shot, having to beat one guy off the dribble and then probably cut up another and then finishing at the rim. This tires him out and makes his overall scoring effort more difficult. CP3 is a great scorer and he should be allowed to roam and run around picks to get open jump shots or backdoor cuts without the ball. He would be able to alleviate some of the inefficiency the offense may have due to others not able to get there shot going, and save energy by getting easier shots, instead of having to break down defenses every time in order to get free for his own shot or getting a good shot for a teammate. My opinion anyway.

sammyvine
05-16-2014, 04:00 AM
Most protected player in nba history

its never his fault, but it was dirks fault, it was lebron's fault, it was kobe's fault, it was melo's fault.

Everybody who keeps on saying ''he doesnt get blamed because he often plays well', well thats just the point. He has empty stats or doesnt make team mates better.

SPURSFAN1
05-16-2014, 04:02 AM
Most protected player in nba history

its never his fault, but it was dirks fault, it was lebron's fault, it was kobe's fault, it was melo's fault.

Everybody who keeps on saying ''he doesnt get blamed because he often plays well', well thats just the point. He has empty stats or doesnt make team mates better.

People even have CP3 over TP in all time PG lists. hahahahahha

sammyvine
05-16-2014, 04:02 AM
I agree with much of this, although I have no problem with people taking CP3 over Kobe, or the other way around. He is so good at what he does, that he is relied on so much to "run" the offense every time down. This does two things that hurt him and consequently his teams IMO

1. tires him out a bit
2. takes away from his ability to be a finisher/scorer

Point 1. If you have to bring the ball up every time, your going to get tired. You can't take any plays off. There are many times when Lebron is tired and he will just go sit in the top right corner with his man on him and do nothing but rest and let his team run a play without him. CP3 needs these moments as well but he doesn't get them.

Point 2. What I am about to say contributes to his overall tiredness. Every point he gets, he basically is creating his own shot, having to beat one guy off the dribble and then probably cut up another and then finishing at the rim. This tires him out and makes his overall scoring effort more difficult. CP3 is a great scorer and he should be allowed to roam and run around picks to get open jump shots or backdoor cuts without the ball. He would be able to alleviate some of the inefficiency the offense may have due to others not able to get there shot going, and save energy by getting easier shots, instead of having to break down defenses every time in order to get free for his own shot or getting a good shot for a teammate. My opinion anyway.

I dont understand how you can take CP3 over Kobe. Thats an insult to Kobe. Kobe is one of the all time greats, CP3 isn't close to that as an overall player and impact wise. He doesnt even sell jerseys lol.

Before people throw in the teams that Kobe has played in, then we have to do the same with every nba player, Lebron, Magic, Kareem, Bird etc who all played with great players.

Hotone1401
05-16-2014, 04:30 AM
CP3 over Kobe is absurd. That is the stupidest notion I've read on PSD in a while.

east fb knicks
05-16-2014, 04:36 AM
cp3 is fine he just let his greed for money get ahead of him he had better chances to win in free agency and he took the money but this whole sterling situation might be the best thing to happen to him he might actually go to a team that can win it all

zn23
05-16-2014, 04:58 AM
People even have CP3 over TP in all time PG lists. hahahahahha

Why is that funny? Tony Parker hasn't come close to CP3.

zn23
05-16-2014, 05:01 AM
CP3 over Kobe is absurd. That is the stupidest notion I've read on PSD in a while.

All-time or currently?

Obviously Kobe is all-time ahead of CP3, but currently no...

Method28
05-16-2014, 05:08 AM
Man you guys are funny. Not gonna argue here or post numbers because its all been done before.

Anyone that cannot see the amazing point guard that Cp3 has been throughout his career is batshit crazy.

He's a great leader, great work ethic, highly skilled in just about every aspect of the game. He's got the highest basketball IQ I've seen in a long time. Sadly he's 5'10" but he's still an amazing all around player.

A lot of these pgs in the league are on trick pony's. Either super athletic with erratic shots or they're revolving doors on the defensive end or they can't hit a big shot or they're turnover prone. There is a huge major flaw in just about every pg and Paul is the one people want to bash.

jerellh528
05-16-2014, 05:20 AM
All-time or currently?

Obviously Kobe is all-time ahead of CP3, but currently no...

No crap. Cp3 actually played this season...

Sactown
05-16-2014, 05:54 AM
Not sure why everyone is upset with him... This year was a particularly strong year where any team could of either exited out of the first round, or made it all the way ... I don't think the Clippers were the better team here and if OKC lost we would be having this discussion about KD's reluctance to take over and Westbrooks ability to shoot them out of games... There was no under dog in this series..

IKnowHoops
05-16-2014, 06:20 AM
Not sure why everyone is upset with him... This year was a particularly strong year where any team could of either exited out of the first round, or made it all the way ... I don't think the Clippers were the better team here and if OKC lost we would be having this discussion about KD's reluctance to take over and Westbrooks ability to shoot them out of games... There was no under dog in this series..

Exactly. Its nobody's fault, they just got beat by a team that was probably even talent wise, but had the best player in the series and current league MVP Kevin Durant. No biggie. Everyone always talks about how Stockton is the the second best pg ever, but he never won anything either. It doesn't take away from Stockton, why should it take away from CP3.

Sactown
05-16-2014, 06:43 AM
Exactly. Its nobody's fault, they just got beat by a team that was probably even talent wise, but had the best player in the series and current league MVP Kevin Durant. No biggie. Everyone always talks about how Stockton is the the second best pg ever, but he never won anything either. It doesn't take away from Stockton, why should it take away from CP3.

It was a close 6 game series regardless of the ineffectiveness of Blake Griffin and the Donald Sterling black cloud... While CP3 played a roll in that game 5 meltdown ultimately so did the other 4 guys on the court, which isn't a great excuse as he's the leader, but every player has a poor playoff moment... And exactly its not like anybody was boasting that CP3 was the best player on the court or even the team with the higher seed... This game is about matchups and I just don't think this was a good one for the Clippers

PhillyFaninLA
05-16-2014, 07:42 AM
He loses before the second round because his teams aren't as good, it has nothing to due with CP3

JasonJohnHorn
05-16-2014, 08:16 AM
The Thunder were the better team. Period.

Chris Paul was the best point guard in the playoffs... his percentages and per game averages were where they were in the regulars season (though his turnovers and fouls were up a little).

Bottom line, it is a team sport. The Clippers lost to the better team. There is nothing to hang on CP3 for that.

The biggest problem for the Clippers was depth/Crawford's shooting. What is CP3 supposed to do about that? And are you going to knock him for not going to the CF with the Hornets? Or going anywhere last year when Griffin went down in an injury and he was playing solo?

Blake Griffin's rebounding and percentage dropped for the playoffs, but nobody is lambasting him.

No sense in blaming CP3 for this. They need a better starting line-up (SF/SG) and a better bench.

b@llhog24
05-16-2014, 08:34 AM
Ah it's been awhile since I've picked apart an argument. Let's go...


okay so he's highly regarded as the best pg in the game but he has NEVER led a team past the second round.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman


Why doesn't he get the blame like a player like Melo?

Well honestly I've never been a fan of blaming players individually but if we're gonna play that game it's because he's performed better on average in the playoffs than Melo has.


Honestly I would be more confident in a player like rose or curry leading a team further in the playoffs than him.

Why?


A healthy warriors led by curry would've knocked the cp3 clippers out of the playoffs. I just wanna see why does he always get a pass.

If you have the ability to see that a healthy Warriors team could have very well knocked out the Clippers than that means that you have the ability to understand context. What I'n tryna figure out is why you're not applying that principle here.


Would you guys be more confident in a player like rose or curry leading your team further? I think if replace u paul with curry or rose on the clippers they're in the WCF for sure.

Rose, No. Curry maybe but I'm kind of a spacing junkie.

HYFR
05-16-2014, 08:48 AM
The Thunder were the better team. Period.

Chris Paul was the best point guard in the playoffs... his percentages and per game averages were where they were in the regulars season (though his turnovers and fouls were up a little).

Bottom line, it is a team sport. The Clippers lost to the better team. There is nothing to hang on CP3 for that.

The biggest problem for the Clippers was depth/Crawford's shooting. What is CP3 supposed to do about that? And are you going to knock him for not going to the CF with the Hornets? Or going anywhere last year when Griffin went down in an injury and he was playing solo?

Blake Griffin's rebounding and percentage dropped for the playoffs, but nobody is lambasting him.

No sense in blaming CP3 for this. They need a better starting line-up (SF/SG) and a better bench.

Argument can be made that Westbrook was the better player but I pretty much agree with this. Cp3 bashing is very odd

KnicksorBust
05-16-2014, 09:20 AM
This is the first year where he had a team talented enough to make the Finals and they failed to meet expectations. He also collapsed monumentally at the end of Game 5 and cost his team a win and potentially the series. The criticism is warranted this year and this hurts his legacy.

cssdmark
05-16-2014, 09:37 AM
Cp3 is just not that good and because of those errors in game 5 he should be sent to purgatory, trade him to the Knicks, that is what he deserves.

mightybosstone
05-16-2014, 09:38 AM
This is the first year where he had a team talented enough to make the Finals and they failed to meet expectations. He also collapsed monumentally at the end of Game 5 and cost his team a win and potentially the series. The criticism is warranted this year and this hurts his legacy.

This x2.

I've been a staunch defender of Paul for years, and I still think he's one of the 3-4 greatest point guards in the history of the NBA regardless if he ever wins a title or not. That being said, this was the first time I can remember thinking that a Paul-led team underachieved in the playoffs. Sure they were technically the lower seed and didn't have HCA, but I thought they were the better basketball team and should have won that series.

It certainly doesn't help his cause that Westbrook pretty regularly outplayed him and he completely fell apart in the last minute of Game 5, with two plays that directly cost LA a chance to take a 3-2 series lead going home.

I still don't think the book is remotely closed on Paul's career, though. Assuming the Sterling situation works itself out and the Spurs finally start to show some regression (if that ever happens), this Clippers team could very well be the best team in the West over the next 4-5 years. I think they're every bit as good as OKC and they're certainly deeper. The question will be how Houston and Golden State grow up over the next couple of seasons and whether the Clippers can ever actually show up in the postseason.

mightybosstone
05-16-2014, 09:41 AM
Cp3 is just not that good and because of those errors in game 5 he should be sent to purgatory, trade him to the Knicks, that is what he deserves.

Wow.... That's extremely harsh. I'll admit the guy probably cost them Game 5 and likely the series as well. But without him, the Clippers aren't remotely good enough to be in that position in the first place. You replace Paul with an average point guard and the Clippers might not even be in the playoffs in the first place. Plus, the whole "trade him to the Knicks" point is a bad one as the Knicks have literally zero assets aside from Melo and Melo would make no sense on that Clippers team.

BKLYNpigeon
05-16-2014, 09:50 AM
I don't get why you guys put such an emphasis on how far you make it in the playoffs determines how goo you are. Every team is different, Every opponent is different and Every situation is different.

The West was a beast this year. CP3 had a great season and playoff run especially with all that Sterling fiasco.

CP3 isn't a ball dominate player like KD, Lebron, and Melo. he doesn't jack up shots to will his team to win. He controls the game, tempo, and sets up his team to win.

Snakeyestx
05-16-2014, 09:56 AM
Would you guys be more confident in a player like rose ... leading your team further?

HAHAHHAHAHA.... yeah right.

Two words - Glass Knees.

He's one more knee-injury away from Chicago writing him off and going in another direction at the PG.

I'd have more faith in a toddler holding a water balloon and not dropping it.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 10:25 AM
you know why he cant win in the playoffs? Because of Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitski & now Kevin Durant. if hes smart, he should join the eastern conference where there is less competition

FlashBolt
05-16-2014, 12:11 PM
RWB has established himself as the best PG after this series.

JasonJohnHorn
05-16-2014, 12:28 PM
Argument can be made that Westbrook was the better player but I pretty much agree with this. Cp3 bashing is very odd


I agree... Westbrook HAS played well... there is a case for Westy here to... my issue is I see Westy as a combo guard, more like Dwyane Wade than a point guard. But yeah... Westy is having a great post season!

I'll be rooting for the Spurs in the WCF, but if the Thunder are playing the Heat in the finals, I'm hoping Westy drop 3D games every night!

P&GRealist
05-16-2014, 12:29 PM
He loses before the second round because his teams aren't as good, it has nothing to due with CP3

So CP3 was an MVP candidate right behind Kobe, the 08 Hornets finish 1 game behind the 08 Lakers (that acquired Pau midseason), they get the #2 seed, they beat up on a lot of teams in the regular season, but then they lose in game 7 at home in NOLA in the semis to San Antonio.

And you say his teams aren't as good?

No, it's just that him and his teams CHOKE!

P&GRealist
05-16-2014, 12:31 PM
RWB has established himself as the best PG after this series.

Um, Westy isn't a true point guard. He did probably solidify himself as the 2nd best guard overall. I still reserve my judgment and see how Kobe and Derrick Rose come back next yr.

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2014, 12:39 PM
Wow.... That's extremely harsh. I'll admit the guy probably cost them Game 5 and likely the series as well. But without him, the Clippers aren't remotely good enough to be in that position in the first place. You replace Paul with an average point guard and the Clippers might not even be in the playoffs in the first place. Plus, the whole "trade him to the Knicks" point is a bad one as the Knicks have literally zero assets aside from Melo and Melo would make no sense on that Clippers team.

Pretty sure he was being facetious, hence the Knicks part.

king4day
05-16-2014, 02:41 PM
Pretty sure we had a similar thread before the playoffs started.

He's a great PG but it's rare that PG's take you to the promised land. MJ, Kobe, Wade are SG's. LeBron, Durant are SF's. Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq are PF/C's.

I would give Blake one more season to improve and then decide if the team needs to be tweaked after. This isn't all of Paul's fault though.

Vinylman
05-16-2014, 03:07 PM
This is the first year where he had a team talented enough to make the Finals and they failed to meet expectations. He also collapsed monumentally at the end of Game 5 and cost his team a win and potentially the series. The criticism is warranted this year and this hurts his legacy.

nah... the game 5 collapse isn't on CP3... he is the symptom ... Doc Rivers is the disease... he got emotionally involved and lost site of what he needed to do to get his players to execute down the stretch... the buck stops with Rivers because he has a young team that really doesn't have much playoff experience.

sammyvine
05-16-2014, 03:29 PM
overrated

melo, t-mac were bashed for losing yet cp3 gets pass. This clippers team is pretty good, blake is a top 10 player, deandre jordan is a decent player and the bench is pretty okay as well with crawford, collision etc...Oh and you have a top 5 coach in Doc Rivers.

CP3 just isn't that tier of player like Duncan, Lebron, kobe etc...nothing wrong with that but fans need to stop calling him a top3 player

kblo247
05-16-2014, 05:38 PM
Conley 17, 8, and 4 - CP 23, 6, 4

Parker 17, 8, and 3 - CP 13, 9, 4

Parker 19, 6, and 4 - CP 24, 11, 4

Billups 22, 8, and 4 - CP 17, 10, 4

Westbrook 28, 9, and 6 - CP 23, 12, 4

HE AINT BOUT THAT SUPERSTAR, BEST AT MY SPOT SO I MAKE YOU MY ***** LIFE. His production us damn near always off set by PG's for a series, as he doesn't dominate like real stars do. Shaq killed 5s, Kobe and MJ killed 2s, Bron kills 3s, Magic destroyed 1s.

CP isn't the best of his era, he hasn't accomplished **** because he chokes. Game 5 he choked, up with HCA in 08 he choked, vs Memphis when they couldn't score for 4-5min stretches and he just pounded the ball he choked, the Lakers on the ropes with a hurt Kobe he choked late in those games as the series went on trying to get Ariza to score over being damn superstar and dropping 30. And vs Denver he outright quit.

Chris isn't a superstar, isn't a winner, and isn't a leader or the best anything outside best regular season pg in the game. This is 4x champ, finals MVP, and I've eliminated his *** multiple times Tony Parkers era

Method28
05-16-2014, 06:26 PM
Conley 17, 8, and 4 - CP 23, 6, 4

Parker 17, 8, and 3 - CP 13, 9, 4

Parker 19, 6, and 4 - CP 24, 11, 4

Billups 22, 8, and 4 - CP 17, 10, 4

Westbrook 28, 9, and 6 - CP 23, 12, 4

HE AINT BOUT THAT SUPERSTAR, BEST AT MY SPOT SO I MAKE YOU MY ***** LIFE. His production us damn near always off set by PG's for a series, as he doesn't dominate like real stars do. Shaq killed 5s, Kobe and MJ killed 2s, Bron kills 3s, Magic destroyed 1s.

CP isn't the best of his era, he hasn't accomplished **** because he chokes. Game 5 he choked, up with HCA in 08 he choked, vs Memphis when they couldn't score for 4-5min stretches and he just pounded the ball he choked, the Lakers on the ropes with a hurt Kobe he choked late in those games as the series went on trying to get Ariza to score over being damn superstar and dropping 30. And vs Denver he outright quit.

Chris isn't a superstar, isn't a winner, and isn't a leader or the best anything outside best regular season pg in the game. This is 4x champ, finals MVP, and I've eliminated his *** multiple times Tony Parkers era

Why don't you post defensive and efficiency stats as well?

sportsfan222
05-16-2014, 06:49 PM
i remember having this argument before the regular season about chris paul, and this was exactly what i was alludng to.

people calling him the 3rd best player in the nba were insane.

he puts up really fancy stats, with his 16 pts, 13 assists, 5 steal games, whatever it is, but at the end of the day, he is just way too small and can not keep up with the explosive players in the nba, specfically at his position such as rose and westbrook to name a few.

paul should get blame, because aside from game 1 where he was lights out, and the end of game 4, he was nothing special whatsoever.

also, i do not want to here the '' he does not have enough talent around him'' because i really cant think of a more diversified amount of talent than the clippers.

chris paul can just not take over a game on a consistent basis like the elite players do and will his team to victory. hes nowhere near a james or durant obviously, and can not take over a game like a healthy derrick rose can.

Chronz
05-17-2014, 12:06 AM
Why don't you post defensive and efficiency stats as well?

Why doesn't he apply the same ******** standard to his hero? Kobe got outplayed by the likes of Richard Hamilton if that rudimentary analysis is all we look at. Better stats + actually watching the games = too much sense.

Chronz
05-17-2014, 12:07 AM
i remember having this argument before the regular season about chris paul, and this was exactly what i was alludng to.

people calling him the 3rd best player in the nba were insane.

he puts up really fancy stats, with his 16 pts, 13 assists, 5 steal games, whatever it is, but at the end of the day, he is just way too small and can not keep up with the explosive players in the nba, specfically at his position such as rose and westbrook to name a few.

paul should get blame, because aside from game 1 where he was lights out, and the end of game 4, he was nothing special whatsoever.

also, i do not want to here the '' he does not have enough talent around him'' because i really cant think of a more diversified amount of talent than the clippers.

chris paul can just not take over a game on a consistent basis like the elite players do and will his team to victory. hes nowhere near a james or durant obviously, and can not take over a game like a healthy derrick rose can.
I remember it made no sense back then either, oh and listing Rose is pretty biased of you at this point .

kblo247
05-17-2014, 03:12 AM
I mean, how can you expect a guy to win with:

-His hand picked, championship winning coach
-Top 3 PF in the league
-Top rebounding and shot blocking C in the league
-One of the best shooters in the league
-6th man of the year
-Top backup PG

Hey but where's the help.

kblo247
05-17-2014, 03:13 AM
Why doesn't he apply the same ******** standard to his hero? Kobe got outplayed by the likes of Richard Hamilton if that rudimentary analysis is all we look at. Better stats + actually watching the games = too much sense.

Conference Finals count (and wins too) - 7
Ring count - 5

CP Never Been To Round 3 has a nice ring to it

kblo247
05-17-2014, 03:20 AM
nah... the game 5 collapse isn't on CP3... he is the symptom ... Doc Rivers is the disease... he got emotionally involved and lost site of what he needed to do to get his players to execute down the stretch... the buck stops with Rivers because he has a young team that really doesn't have much playoff experience.

Chris Paul is in year 10 ... **** out of here with that not being on him. He's not young, inexperienced, or the like. Hell he isn't battle worn either like some old guys since he gets his minutes monitored. He just choked

sammyvine
05-17-2014, 10:47 AM
I remember it made no sense back then either, oh and listing Rose is pretty biased of you at this point .
If rose is healthy i think his style of play is,more suited to winning ball then chris pauls
Its no surprise,rose destroys paul on head to heads

slashsnake
05-17-2014, 12:40 PM
If rose is healthy i think his style of play is,more suited to winning ball then chris pauls
Its no surprise,rose destroys paul on head to heads

yeah because that +5 win record came due to Rose actually outplaying paul.

What about Rose got them those wins? Paul had more points, steals, blocks, assists, fewer turnovers... shot over 50% against Rose (60% from downtown). Rose can win by scoring 4 points in a game Paul scores 29.

Teams matter, Melo was 7-2 against Lebron early in their careers. Didn't mean Melo had some sort of magical winning abilities, it just meant Denver was a lot better than Cleveland back then.

Chronz
05-17-2014, 01:22 PM
If rose is healthy i think his style of play is,more suited to winning ball then chris pauls
Its no surprise,rose destroys paul on head to heads

We don't even know what his healthy looks like any more nor are regular season matchups indicative of any thing worth bragging about

Chronz
05-17-2014, 01:24 PM
Conference Finals count (and wins too) - 7
Ring count - 5

CP Never Been To Round 3 has a nice ring to it
Clever nicknames don't change the facts. That it happened to Kobe too only helps my argument

Take your shallow analysis elsewhere hate is easily dissected

blahblahyoutoo
05-17-2014, 01:31 PM
He loses before the second round because his teams aren't as good, it has nothing to due with CP3

best PG in the league, regarded as 3rd best player overall.
BG was touted as best PF depending who you ask, right there with Aldridge, 6MOY in crawford and you say his teams aren't good?

IMO, CP3 is overrated but to no fault of his own. PG's just can't carry teams as much as other positions, and his game isn't a difference maker.
he's a good floor general that can't take over a game.

bucketss
05-17-2014, 01:50 PM
okay so he's highly regarded as the best pg in the game but he has NEVER led a team past the second round. Why doesn't he get the blame like a player like Melo? Honestly I would be more confident in a player like rose or curry leading a team further in the playoffs than him. A healthy warriors led by curry would've knocked the cp3 clippers out of the playoffs. I just wanna see why does he always get a pass. Would you guys be more confident in a player like rose or curry leading your team further? I think if replace u paul with curry or rose on the clippers they're in the WCF for sure.

lol no and no.

Vinylman
05-17-2014, 02:29 PM
Chris Paul is in year 10 ... **** out of here with that not being on him. He's not young, inexperienced, or the like. Hell he isn't battle worn either like some old guys since he gets his minutes monitored. He just choked

cmon kblo ... you are way to hard on CP3... do i think he will ever lead a team to a title? Nope

But at the end of the day do you think Phil Jackson or POP allows the unraveling in game 5 that Co ck Rivers did? Never would happen because they know how to manage a game when there is pressure...

Rivers is feeble minded... you need not look any further than his reaction to the sterling debacle

nycericanguy
05-17-2014, 02:39 PM
He's a top 3 player in this modern age of advanced stats, because advanced stats love him. But a top 3 player should have his team in the WCF or finals at least once a twice.

I mean Melo has never played with anyone near the level of Blake yet he made the WCF out West.

Should CP3 get a pass because he's a PG?

advanced stats will also say Love is a top 5 player, yet his teams never even come close to competing for a playoff spot, let alone a playoff win.

zn23
05-17-2014, 04:29 PM
The Thunder were the better team. Period.

Chris Paul was the best point guard in the playoffs... his percentages and per game averages were where they were in the regulars season (though his turnovers and fouls were up a little).

Bottom line, it is a team sport. The Clippers lost to the better team. There is nothing to hang on CP3 for that.

The biggest problem for the Clippers was depth/Crawford's shooting. What is CP3 supposed to do about that? And are you going to knock him for not going to the CF with the Hornets? Or going anywhere last year when Griffin went down in an injury and he was playing solo?

Blake Griffin's rebounding and percentage dropped for the playoffs, but nobody is lambasting him.

No sense in blaming CP3 for this. They need a better starting line-up (SF/SG) and a better bench.

nope, disagree with everything. Chris Paul should be good enough to take a team past the Thunder.

It's obvious he lacks the clutch gene to get it done though. The Clippers should consider trading him for a point guard that has the clutch gene.

slashsnake
05-17-2014, 06:07 PM
He's a top 3 player in this modern age of advanced stats, because advanced stats love him. But a top 3 player should have his team in the WCF or finals at least once a twice.

I mean Melo has never played with anyone near the level of Blake yet he made the WCF out West.

Should CP3 get a pass because he's a PG?

advanced stats will also say Love is a top 5 player, yet his teams never even come close to competing for a playoff spot, let alone a playoff win.

Love has a reason. His team is +356 when he is out there. -137 when he's on the bench. That puts him right between Hibbert and Dwight in the top 20 of the NBA, above guys like Dirk, Parker, Duncan, and others.


Why did Duncan make the post-season? His team was +300 while he was on the court and +333 when he was on the bench. TEAMS matter.

Chronz
05-17-2014, 07:30 PM
nope, disagree with everything. Chris Paul should be good enough to take a team past the Thunder.

It's obvious he lacks the clutch gene to get it done though. The Clippers should consider trading him for a point guard that has the clutch gene.

Plz tell me ur trolling

Chronz
05-17-2014, 07:34 PM
He's a top 3 player in this modern age of advanced stats, because advanced stats love him. But a top 3 player should have his team in the WCF or finals at least once a twice.

I mean Melo has never played with anyone near the level of Blake yet he made the WCF out West.

Should CP3 get a pass because he's a PG?

advanced stats will also say Love is a top 5 player, yet his teams never even come close to competing for a playoff spot, let alone a playoff win.
And why must this happen? Sounds arbitrary, melo had it easier.

Someone show me why his teams should have won so and so, I'll brew impressed if historical comps are given.

PurpleLynch
05-17-2014, 08:07 PM
Clips just need two good role players at the sf and center position. Then,they should be good for the next season to make that serious run their fans are hoping for. Their backcourt with Cp3,Redick,Crawford and Collison is ok.

Greet
05-17-2014, 08:17 PM
Clips just need two good role players at the sf and center position. Then,they should be good for the next season to make that serious run their fans are hoping for. Their backcourt with Cp3,Redick,Crawford and Collison is ok.

Oh wow, the Clippers are incredibly deep as is. The ONLY weakness on this roster right now is probably their big man depth and thats because Blake and Jordan are such high energy guys you would want a good back-up big man to help them out.


On topic: CP3 is the best point guard in the league.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-17-2014, 08:18 PM
Competition is a huge factor. If he played in the east most likely he would have been to the finals at least twice by now. Then this arbitrary argument wouldn't even be made and he would be regarded as just a great player without the cloud of not passing the second round.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-17-2014, 08:26 PM
Oh wow, the Clippers are incredibly deep as is. The ONLY weakness on this roster right now is probably their big man depth and thats because Blake and Jordan are such high energy guys you would want a good back-up big man to help them out.


On topic: CP3 is the best point guard in the league.

Agree, I don't think there is much more they need to do with that roster. Its one of the more stacked rosters I have seen. I think they just need to all individually improve a little and get some cohesion that could only be obtained by playing multiple years together.

Chronz
05-17-2014, 09:28 PM
Agree, I don't think there is much more they need to do with that roster. Its one of the more stacked rosters I have seen. I think they just need to all individually improve a little and get some cohesion that could only be obtained by playing multiple years together.

Their depth is overrated and their lack of 2-way players outside of CP3 is never talked about. Nor how matchup dependent alot of those guys are. Tho having lots of offensive only perimeter guys is useful for this team in the regular season when guys go down. But I really wish people would distinguish the playoffs from regular season.

kblo247
05-18-2014, 04:51 AM
lol no and no.

Healthy warriors means Bogut plays too and JO doesn't go down. Easy to see them winning that

kblo247
05-18-2014, 04:58 AM
Clever nicknames don't change the facts. That it happened to Kobe too only helps my argument

Take your shallow analysis elsewhere hate is easily dissected

Give Kobe talent and he gets your *** to the dance. He's gotten his team to the dance going what Paul is lauded for, being the primary floor general ... 7 WCF, 7 western conference championships ... 5 rings

You give cp3
- a top 2 PF
- the top shot blocking C and boarder at the 5
- a sniper in JJ
- 6th man of the year
- collision as backup

He can't get to round 3.

You give cp3
- Home Court Advantage vs the spurs with a hurt Manu
- Peja who is one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever
- Chandler and West

He can't get to round 3.

Let's play a game, name a ****ing SG out west in a series since the millennium since that's when Kobe's been a starter from that's outplayed him, canceled his *** out. I got news for you. He made them his ***** at 21 (see Scottie being pissed) and into his 30s ... Brons did that to 3s, MJ to his spot, and so on

Can Paul say he's done that to Tony, Conley, Westbrook, or Billups? I mean he's the vaunted best at his spot right bro, you should be able to show him kicking some non regular season *** when his team needs him to impose his will

kblo247
05-18-2014, 05:07 AM
And why must this happen? Sounds arbitrary, melo had it easier.

Someone show me why his teams should have won so and so, I'll brew impressed if historical comps are given.
Melo had it easier? Or Melo stepped the **** up and dominated his spots and was a "bear down there" all the way to the conference finals ... Melo just is more of a leader and alpha, more of a natural stubborn bastard who will try to impose his will

PurpleLynch
05-18-2014, 02:29 PM
Oh wow, the Clippers are incredibly deep as is. The ONLY weakness on this roster right now is probably their big man depth and thats because Blake and Jordan are such high energy guys you would want a good back-up big man to help them out.


On topic: CP3 is the best point guard in the league.

I agree,Cp3 is the best in the league right now.But they lack players to do damage in the PO(I mean,I just said that they need just two players,I know they're stacked). Maybe Granger will be better next year and that should adress their need of a good sf. A backup center is needed imo.

Meaze_Gibson
05-18-2014, 03:05 PM
Always thought cp3 was overrated but he improved his stock in my eyes. His defense on curry was terrific and i didnt think he would step up like that. With that said some of those blunders in the late part of games will haunt him and he does get a lil uncharacteristic in late moments of the fourth. The prob with cp3 is he does not have that consistent killer mentality that other small players and pgs have. I have a belief that when you flop all the time for calls and try to get the edge from the refs, you are subconsciously telling yourself and admitting that help is needed and you can't get it done. Once he gets a consistent killer mentality he will be ok.

cmellofan15
05-18-2014, 03:10 PM
I forgot basketball was an individual sport lol

KnicksorBust
05-18-2014, 04:17 PM
And why must this happen? Sounds arbitrary, melo had it easier.

Someone show me why his teams should have won so and so, I'll brew impressed if historical comps are given.

So you're okay with CP3's performance this post-season? You don't feel like he hurt his legacy at all?


Give Kobe talent and he gets your *** to the dance. He's gotten his team to the dance going what Paul is lauded for, being the primary floor general ... 7 WCF, 7 western conference championships ... 5 rings

You give cp3
- a top 2 PF
- the top shot blocking C and boarder at the 5
- a sniper in JJ
- 6th man of the year
- collision as backup

He can't get to round 3.

You give cp3
- Home Court Advantage vs the spurs with a hurt Manu
- Peja who is one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever
- Chandler and West

He can't get to round 3.

Let's play a game, name a ****ing SG out west in a series since the millennium since that's when Kobe's been a starter from that's outplayed him, canceled his *** out. I got news for you. He made them his ***** at 21 (see Scottie being pissed) and into his 30s ... Brons did that to 3s, MJ to his spot, and so on

Can Paul say he's done that to Tony, Conley, Westbrook, or Billups? I mean he's the vaunted best at his spot right bro, you should be able to show him kicking some non regular season *** when his team needs him to impose his will

I actually agree. A lot of people (myself included) want to anoint Paul the best PG of this generation and a legend at his position. I never believed those Hornets teams were talented enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs but this was his 3rd season in LA with Blake and he even got a championship level coach to elevate the talent around him. To be eliminated in the 2nd round this season was a failure.

D-Leethal
05-18-2014, 04:40 PM
Give Kobe talent and he gets your *** to the dance. He's gotten his team to the dance going what Paul is lauded for, being the primary floor general ... 7 WCF, 7 western conference championships ... 5 rings

You give cp3
- a top 2 PF
- the top shot blocking C and boarder at the 5
- a sniper in JJ
- 6th man of the year
- collision as backup

He can't get to round 3.

You give cp3
- Home Court Advantage vs the spurs with a hurt Manu
- Peja who is one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever
- Chandler and West

He can't get to round 3.

Let's play a game, name a ****ing SG out west in a series since the millennium since that's when Kobe's been a starter from that's outplayed him, canceled his *** out. I got news for you. He made them his ***** at 21 (see Scottie being pissed) and into his 30s ... Brons did that to 3s, MJ to his spot, and so on

Can Paul say he's done that to Tony, Conley, Westbrook, or Billups? I mean he's the vaunted best at his spot right bro, you should be able to show him kicking some non regular season *** when his team needs him to impose his will

I agree with you here. CP3's style of play doesn't really lend itself to "domination". By that I mean he never really seems like he is dominating the game, like he is the best player on the court, like he is forcing the attention from all 5 defenders and than ripping them apart for lending too much help in his direction. He plays pretty mistake-free basketball for the most part, he makes the right play, the smart play, and it makes for a very clean game and a stat line that makes the stat heads drool, but you need guys to dominate a playoff series. If your a PG, you need to be a big time scoring weapon AND rack up a ton of assists if you want to dominate the game at the position. Guys like Westbrook dominate games, Parker dominates games, Steve Nash in his day would dominate games in the playoffs. You never really see it from CP3 even when he's playing a superb game, he isn't really "dominating" it.

D-Leethal
05-18-2014, 04:41 PM
Blake needs to be that dominant force for CP3 like Malone was for Stockton. Clean PG play as your number 1 weapon doesn't lend itself to winning a playoff series. Someone needs to dominate as a triple threat.

effen5
05-18-2014, 05:01 PM
Point guards are extremely overrated. As dominate as Cp3 has been this decade I'd still take Tony Parker over him.

KnicksorBust
05-18-2014, 05:22 PM
Point guards are extremely overrated. As dominate as Cp3 has been this decade I'd still take Tony Parker over him.

CP3 on the Spurs would have been unstoppable. He would have gotten so many easy looks just off their Zipper "loop" series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxCihOz6_UU

Chronz
05-19-2014, 02:51 AM
Give Kobe talent and he gets your *** to the dance. He's gotten his team to the dance going what Paul is lauded for, being the primary floor general ... 7 WCF, 7 western conference championships ... 5 rings
Congrats. Even if I buy what you're selling, thats not exactly a diss on CP3 (being lesser than Kobe that is), its not hard to convince us Kobe is great, Im just not seeing how CP3 hasn't been a superstar considering what hes gotten out of his squads.


You give cp3
- a top 2 PF
- the top shot blocking C and boarder at the 5
- a sniper in JJ
- 6th man of the year
- collision as backup

He can't get to round 3.
Point?

CP3 faced
-The Leagues MVP
A secondary player who can arguably outplay anyone in the league in stretches
A better defender than the opposing teams "Top shotblocking boarder/blocker" (you did well wording it this way, knowing full well the value of positional defending)
A more productive bench player(s) than the opposing team.

So how exactly is that such a travesty? Especially considering the circumstances revolving the clips (controversial officiating + Sterling BS).


You give cp3
- Home Court Advantage vs the spurs with a hurt Manu
- Peja who is one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever
- Chandler and West

So tell me again why Manu is hurt but West isnt? Peja is a career choker but yes he was a solid outlet option in what would be his final productive season.




Let's play a game, name a ****ing SG out west in a series since the millennium since that's when Kobe's been a starter from that's outplayed him, canceled his *** out. I got news for you. He made them his ***** at 21 (see Scottie being pissed) and into his 30s ... Brons did that to 3s, MJ to his spot, and so on

Can Paul say he's done that to Tony, Conley, Westbrook, or Billups? I mean he's the vaunted best at his spot right bro, you should be able to show him kicking some non regular season *** when his team needs him to impose his will
We've played this game, remember : http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?841417-Who-is-the-greatest-player-to-never-advance-past-the-second-round-of-the-post-season&p=27250296#post27250296


Not really, remember when Kobe got "outplayed" by Paul Pierce. You could make an argument that he got outplayed by Rip (21-5-4 on 41% vs Kobes pitiful 22-4-2 on 38%), and he got "outplayed" by an old man Reggie Miller in the Finals (dont bring up Kobes injury if your just going to ignore CP3's injuries).


I do agree, Kobe will definitely try to impose his will, sometimes against his coaches best wishes. Must be nice when you have great support tho

Chronz
05-19-2014, 03:16 AM
Melo had it easier? Or Melo stepped the **** up and dominated his spots and was a "bear down there" all the way to the conference finals ... Melo just is more of a leader and alpha, more of a natural stubborn bastard who will try to impose his will

OR maybe, the much easier competition played a role. We've already seen Melo get the clamps put on many times over the years. Why put stock into something so arbitrary as "Conference Finals" when its very well a possibility that the best teams dont meet at that juncture and the fact that competition varies from season to season. Melo having it much easier is too blatant to ignore IMO.

Chronz
05-19-2014, 03:51 AM
So you're okay with CP3's performance this post-season? You don't feel like he hurt his legacy at all?
Yeah I'm "OK" with his performance, it hurts his legacy in that he underperformed and uncharacteristically gave away a pivotal playoff game but he didn't go ghost and he displayed many heroic feats during this run, his defense was truly inspiring from such a little guy. Overall, we could have won had he played better, that complaints rings true for every player to ever lose a series, what I care about is the effort and ability. The team showed great progress, we made it to the 2nd round 2 years ago and the team was no where near championship caliber, after what I've witnessed this year, if CP3 can continue staving off father time on his knees/shoulder, the team should reach that level very soon. Its as if some of you want to exaggerate the impact of this loss, this isn't GP/Kemp losing as a 1st seed to an 8th seed, TWICE, in a row. Remind what they did after that, oh yea, Finals birth. Someone explain why this is worth discussing again...




I actually agree. A lot of people (myself included) want to anoint Paul the best PG of this generation and a legend at his position. I never believed those Hornets teams were talented enough to get past the Lakers or Spurs but this was his 3rd season in LA with Blake and he even got a championship level coach to elevate the talent around him. To be eliminated in the 2nd round this season was a failure.
LOL, you dont actually think CP3 is as good as he used to be, do you? His health has always been in constant flux but it wasn't as prudent as it is now. You have to temper your expectations on the present reality. This squad basically achieved the bar minimum, which I understand is nothing to brag about but its not the turd stain you seem to think it is. Thats reserved for truly abysmal defeats despite the most favorable of circumstances, some real Elvin Hayes quality ****.

Chronz
05-19-2014, 03:52 AM
Blake needs to be that dominant force for CP3 like Malone was for Stockton. Clean PG play as your number 1 weapon doesn't lend itself to winning a playoff series. Someone needs to dominate as a triple threat.

Hogwash, winning is about so much more than what 1 player does on 1 end of the court.

kblo247
05-19-2014, 04:32 AM
Chronz, what has Paul accomplished? 2 division titles? That's it. He's not been MVP, he's not won the conference, he's not won nba championships. He has Olympic gold much like Love for riding Wade, Kobe, Bron, and Melos back. His teams haven't achieved postseason success and he's yet to have a career defining series. By every definition he's an all star, which I've never argued against, but he's not nor has he been a superstar. You can't have the superstar cake and title and not ****ing perform and help his team compete for a conference or nba title.

Chrisclover
05-19-2014, 04:35 AM
Well it's not like CP3 has played bad during those stretches. He has posted very good career playoff numbers. He's had a couple years where he's been bad in the playoffs. But he's been good the last couple years in the playoffs.

He is just unlucky.
Back in his days in New Orleans, his team was decent ,even ranked 2nd in the regular season. So his team was quite decent. But lets be real, he didnt have potent superstars alongside him, which made him unable to carry his team to the Finals. The playoffs are very different from the regular season games in a lot of ways ,namely, filled with tighter D and every possession counts more than the regular-season ones, which needs one or two go-to players to step up down the stretch. West was an All-star but how are the other Hornets players?most of them are starters at best, never reaching the standard of being real game-changers. Haunted by the pedestrian record, CP3 lost his patience and left, so did West.
Now, this Clippers team is very young and talented. Had the Sterling Scandal not happened, the Clippers would trounce the Warriors by bigger margins, saving the troublesome and tiring G7.

kblo247
05-19-2014, 04:59 AM
Let me get this straight, Paul was distracted by Sterling.

Did he not know he was a racist douche that disrespected minorities and made a spectacle of black players by multiple accounts?

Did they hold a gun to his head to force the opt in or sign a max deal?

Fishers daughter has cancer, a surgery on that day and he walks in the ****ing building off a plane and hits the big ****ing shots. Kobe went to a rape trial hearing, flew to the arena, with his team down vs the defending champs 2-1 and dropped 40 on them to tie it up. Ray Allen's kid was in the hospital in the playoffs. And so on. .... Sterling impacted his mental toughness and ability to lead his team to win and impose himself?

Chronz
05-19-2014, 05:13 AM
Chronz, what has Paul accomplished? 2 division titles? That's it. He's not been MVP, he's not won the conference, he's not won nba championships. He has Olympic gold much like Love for riding Wade, Kobe, Bron, and Melos back. His teams haven't achieved postseason success and he's yet to have a career defining series. By every definition he's an all star, which I've never argued against, but he's not nor has he been a superstar. You can't have the superstar cake and title and not ****ing perform and help his team compete for a conference or nba title.
I dont care about MVP's as much as I care about MVP caliber seasons, I know you dont agree but alot of people feel CP3 deserved Kobe's, me personally, I think you cant go wrong with 3 choices that year but to be in the conversation is impressive. Much of your complaints are simply a result of external circumstances, some of us dont put too much stock into the arbitrary team accomplishments that you stress, even less on the rudimentary analysis you have been unable to defend twice now, I prefer to focus on things that are more within the control of the individual.



Let me get this straight, Paul was distracted by Sterling.

Did he not know he was a racist douche that disrespected minorities and made a spectacle of black players by multiple accounts?

Did they hold a gun to his head to force the opt in or sign a max deal?

Fishers daughter has cancer, a surgery on that day and he walks in the ****ing building off a plane and hits the big ****ing shots. Kobe went to a rape trial hearing, flew to the arena, with his team down vs the defending champs 2-1 and dropped 40 on them to tie it up. Ray Allen's kid was in the hospital in the playoffs. And so on. .... Sterling impacted his mental toughness and ability to lead his team to win and impose himself?
Who knows, thats why it was but a minor highlight of a point. I really dont care what you make of it, its not like you know how the situation played out nor are you in any sort of position to dictate how people react to racism/bigotry vs rape/illness . Must have nothing left in you if this is what you resort to.

kblo247
05-19-2014, 06:01 AM
Eh I'm going to admit I mostly stay bothered by the word superstar being used to describe him, Love, and countless others. I'm not as liberal with the interpretation, there's only so many superstars.

And I just am pointing out that they knew who Sterling was, no excuse there for me he chose that knowing who Sterling was, hell we all knew what kind of guy he was, which is why it's more a wtf at them being Doc and CP being appalled that a guy is a bigot when he was known to parade black players like meat before and wouldn't rent to minorities

sammyvine
05-19-2014, 06:29 AM
Very overrated player
The way people go on about you would think he has won a ring

smood999
05-19-2014, 08:30 AM
And why must this happen? Sounds arbitrary, melo had it easier.

Someone show me why his teams should have won so and so, I'll brew impressed if historical comps are given.

I agree with mostly everything you have to say about CP3. I think ppl get caught up too much with the individual stuff without realizing how much team success depends on. There's more to it than how the best player on the team performs. With that said, I wasn't sure what you meant about Melo having it easier. Were you referring to his individual match ups during the post season or his team match ups?

Team match up wise...

Lost to the Wolves (Garnett's MVP season and the yr they went to the WCF)
Lost to the Spurs twice (both championship seasons for the Spurs)
Lost to the Lakers twice (both times the Lakers got to the Finals, winning the title once)
Lost to the Heat (Championship)
The other losses were Clippers, Utah, Boston and Indiana. Clippers had the better regular season record and Boston was still Boston at the time. You can make a case for Utah and maybe Indiana, considering the type of season the Knicks had that year, as series the Nuggets/Knicks should have won. Other than that, it's fair to say, his teams lost when they were suppose to lose.

CP3 has definitely been the better playoff performer of the two. But I think the lack of criticism for CP3 when comparing the two comes down to style of play and likeability. I think CP3 deserves some backlash, but mainly just for the reason that other players get it as well.

ewing
05-19-2014, 09:50 AM
Chris Paul is the best PG in the league. I think if he would attempt to finish at the cup and be a little more selfish on offense he would be on the MVP plane.

Chrisclover
05-19-2014, 10:31 AM
NYK or LAL. Both of which are big markets, wow

ManRam
05-19-2014, 10:35 AM
This is the first year I really think I'm comfortable putting a lot of blame on his shoulders for not having more playoff success. Because in years prior his teams were losing despite his amazing efforts (at least for the most part). His teams were never on the level of those they were playing. This year they were, and he came up a bit short.

ewing
05-19-2014, 10:39 AM
This is the first year I really think I'm comfortable putting a lot of blame on his shoulders for not having more playoff success. Because in years prior his teams were losing despite his amazing efforts (at least for the most part). His teams were never on the level of those they were playing. This year they were, and he came up a bit short.


If anything the series showed just how physically dominate RW is at the PG spot. I thought paul played a really well

ManRam
05-19-2014, 10:44 AM
If again the series showed just how physically dominate RW is at the PG spot. I thought paul played a really well

I love both CP3 and RWB. Anytime people realize RWB's greatness, well...I'm cool with that. He's been as good, if not better, than KD these playoffs.

I'm not saying CP3 played poorly or anything, because he didn't and I do think he's still the best PG in the league, but he just came up a tad short in the end. And considering he finally had the team capable of beating a team like OKC, I think that's when I finally can become comfortable with him getting some blame.

ewing
05-19-2014, 10:47 AM
I love both CP3 and RWB. Anytime people realize RWB's greatness, well...I'm cool with that. He's been as good, if not better, than KD these playoffs.

I'm not saying CP3 played poorly or anything, because he didn't and I do think he's still the best PG in the league, but he just came up a tad short in the end. And considering he finally had the team capable of beating a team like OKC, I think that's when I finally can become comfortable with him getting some blame.


I can see that perspective, unless i see a reason to give blame i don't like too though. Like i said if anything I walked away amazed at RW physical dominance, he is like the LBJ of PGs.

Chrisclover
05-19-2014, 10:49 AM
.

savvy1803
05-19-2014, 03:35 PM
Fair or not the longer CP3 fails to get to the big dance the more heat he is going to take , the team he had this year was the deepest he has ever had and it did'nt happen , i believe they are close to where they need to be with a few tweaks but if the next few seasons don't bring a finals appearance expect the criticism to continue and accelerate .

abe_froman
05-19-2014, 04:01 PM
he should get a more critical eyeing,dont see why he is/should be exempt from it,treat him like we do every one else

....but he's such a fan fav,people like him,so i doubt he'll get the same treatment that others have gotten

blahblahyoutoo
05-19-2014, 09:18 PM
y'all be forgettin' how he almost lost to the warriors without they startin center.
CP3 def be overrated, yo.