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View Full Version : The Heat literally start their playoffs in the Finals



beyourself
05-14-2014, 11:51 AM
Does anybody else feel this way? There is nobody in the East who can beat the Heat. The only way you can beat them is to have a decent frontcourt playing very well especially on defense. Or if LeBron gets into a scoring battle between Durant which he lose, but he's too smart for that. They are just too good that it's the only way. And in the East nobody fits that description except the Pacers when they are playing well, but they are not.

The Grizz, Rockets, Spurs, Clippers and Thunder would at least stand a chance. I wouldn't call any of them the favorites in a series against the Heat, but at least they have a chance.

These East teams need to light a fire under themselves. It's really disgusting.

sixers247
05-14-2014, 11:55 AM
:yawn:

mightybosstone
05-14-2014, 12:00 PM
I don't really think that's fair. I'll give you the Bobcats series, but that Charlotte team had no business being in the playoffs in the first place. Brooklyn, however, is no slouch and they've been very competitive in the series aside from an underwhelming Game 1 performance. I think Miami closes out this series tonight, but it wasn't exactly a cakewalk.

And should Indiana eventually put down Washington and make it to the Conference Finals, they won't be a guarantee either. As you've mentioned already, they have a very formidable front court when Hibbert is playing well (as he has against the Heat in the past) and they've played Miami as tough as anyone has the last two years. I'd still pick the Heat to win that series, but to rule out Indiana as any kind of a challenge (even when they're underachieving a bit) is pretty naive.

Sure, the Heat are the likely favorites in the East to make the Finals, but they should be. They've done it three straight years and they're the reigning back-to-back titles. Anything short of another championship will be deemed a failure. And, yes, the East has been totally underwhelming this season. But let's not try to diminish the Heat's accomplishments. If they win another title, it will have been well deserved and it will undoubtedly be an impressive feat. Few teams in the history of the league have accomplished that, and it's an enormous achievement no matter how they get there.

shep33
05-14-2014, 12:22 PM
The east sucks. Of course their road to the finals is easier.

ManRam
05-14-2014, 12:24 PM
Didn't know the East was awful. Thank you for bringing it to our attention!

beyourself
05-14-2014, 12:25 PM
I don't really think that's fair. I'll give you the Bobcats series, but that Charlotte team had no business being in the playoffs in the first place. Brooklyn, however, is no slouch and they've been very competitive in the series aside from an underwhelming Game 1 performance. I think Miami closes out this series tonight, but it wasn't exactly a cakewalk.

And should Indiana eventually put down Washington and make it to the Conference Finals, they won't be a guarantee either. As you've mentioned already, they have a very formidable front court when Hibbert is playing well (as he has against the Heat in the past) and they've played Miami as tough as anyone has the last two years. I'd still pick the Heat to win that series, but to rule out Indiana as any kind of a challenge (even when they're underachieving a bit) is pretty naive.

Sure, the Heat are the likely favorites in the East to make the Finals, but they should be. They've done it three straight years and they're the reigning back-to-back titles. Anything short of another championship will be deemed a failure. And, yes, the East has been totally underwhelming this season. But let's not try to diminish the Heat's accomplishments. If they win another title, it will have been well deserved and it will undoubtedly be an impressive feat. Few teams in the history of the league have accomplished that, and it's an enormous achievement no matter how they get there.

I'm not trying or attempting the Heats road to the Finals. Sure it's less difficult and less impressive, but it's not their problem the East sucks. It's everybody else's in the conference. Remember when the Pistons kept winning the East for like 7 years in a row? It's sort of similar, in a 7 game series nobody really stands much of a chance.

Stinkyoutsider
05-14-2014, 12:31 PM
I think the Pacers are the only team in the East show the capability (in bunches) to keep Lebron and Wade out of the paint.

You've got to make Lebron and Wade jump shooters and mix up coverages on Lebron when he goes to the post. If Lebron and Wade make their 3s, then you just say ok and move on. But you can't let both of those guys get into the paint and finish or kick out to shooters.

Last year, Hibbert did well in the playoffs when it came to keeping Wade and James out of the paint for stretches so I give the Pacers at least a chance to take a game or 2 from Miami.

Teeboy1487
05-14-2014, 12:38 PM
I have not watched the East playoffs this years.

mngopher35
05-14-2014, 12:43 PM
People have known about the weak east all year. Brooklyn was putting up a fight and it would be 2-2 if Lebron hadn't gone off. I was considering making a thread if the Wizards won whether they could put up a better battle than Brooklyn or not. They have a good frontcourt, backcourt that can score, and ariza to guard James.

Either way it certainly isn't like the West where you have the Clippers/Thunder/Spurs all as solid candidates to make the finals. I think that the finals match up will be great if it is any of those teams.

Tony_Starks
05-14-2014, 01:00 PM
I've been saying all year the Heat have a bye to the Finals. The only team capable at one point of making things interesting was Indy and they imploded.

It's cool for Miami though. At least they get to scrimmage against actual teams instead of each other before they play a real game.

The_Jamal
05-14-2014, 01:04 PM
Sustained excellence at the Heat's level is incredibly difficult to do, no matter what their competition is like. If they make the finals this year, they'll be 14-1 in their last 15 playoff series. That's flat out incredible.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2014, 01:05 PM
Does anybody else feel this way? There is nobody in the East who can beat the Heat. The only way you can beat them is to have a decent frontcourt playing very well especially on defense. Or if LeBron gets into a scoring battle between Durant which he lose, but he's too smart for that. They are just too good that it's the only way. And in the East nobody fits that description except the Pacers when they are playing well, but they are not.

The Grizz, Rockets, Spurs, Clippers and Thunder would at least stand a chance. I wouldn't call any of them the favorites in a series against the Heat, but at least they have a chance.

These East teams need to light a fire under themselves. It's really disgusting. Exactly, it's pathetic!they have a cake walk every year.

ATX
05-14-2014, 01:10 PM
Exactly, it's pathetic!they have a cake walk every year.

Do you EVER have anything else to say? You are OBSESSED with the HEAT. You're a broken record man.

MarkieMark48
05-14-2014, 01:15 PM
there were 2 teams that people were saying the Heat might have trouble against in the east... Nets and the Pacers, and the heat will (probably) play them both. Ya can't blame Miami for the way the Pacers have been playing from about game 72 of the regular season until now.

i'myourdaddy
05-14-2014, 01:23 PM
Here come the Lakers fan claiming the Lakers title run are superior to the Heat title and there should be an * next to the titles the Heat won. I'm waiting for IAmLoser to show up as his bff delusionist is here already.

Kelly Gruber
05-14-2014, 01:24 PM
Definitely not literally, but perhaps figuratively.

ATX
05-14-2014, 01:24 PM
Here come the Lakers fan claiming the Lakers title run are superior to the Heat title and there should be an * next to the titles the Heat won. I'm waiting for IAmLoser to show up as his bff delusionist is here already.

Seriously...Worst kind of sore losers...I think Amosloser was banned yet again.

PhillyFaninLA
05-14-2014, 01:25 PM
figuratively is the word your looking for not literally

bathroom_man
05-14-2014, 01:32 PM
Weak east? The bobcats were 3rd in defense. The nets have 4 hall of famers( pierce, kg, dwill, johnson) plus head jason kidd. The pacers are vegas to win it all. The heat have the toughest road to the finals

therealwd27
05-14-2014, 01:39 PM
This is getting ridiculous the amount of threads you, Amoser, Illusionist and JordanBulls are involved in bashing the Heat get a life seriously. Your either all the same person or just a good example of how America needs to do a better job providing free birth control to prevent idiots like you 4

moshy2
05-14-2014, 01:56 PM
It looks like childs play for them that's how good they are. You never know when the Pacers might suddenly click like they suddenly fell apart, so they could be a challenge. I don't see anybody closing them out, though. They might get put on the ropes again, but they'll come out on top. Every West team has struggled closing out games

pebloemer
05-14-2014, 01:59 PM
figuratively is the word your looking for not literally


Definitely not literally, but perhaps figuratively.

This.

It hasn't been the strongest competition for them this year, that's for sure. Still more basketball to be played.

shep33
05-14-2014, 02:05 PM
I don't think its "bashing" the Heat. Everyone knows the East is a joke. History and facts proves that the east has been filled with less competitive teams than the west.

It's not news to anyone. Heat still deserve props for winning though. Not up to them who they play.

P&GRealist
05-14-2014, 02:09 PM
Didn't know the East was awful. Thank you for bringing it to our attention!

Thank you for bringing in absolutely NOTHING to the thread topic as always!


Anyways, yes the Finals is the playoffs for the Heat, but the Heat (other than the Spurs) are the smartest most together team in the league. Individually they are smart, as well as collectively. They rarely make mistakes like stupid silly turnovers or fouling 3 pt shooters. They are efficient as hell and rarely take bad shots. That's why I see the Spurs-Heat NBA Finals rematch, and the Heat winning it in game 6 in Miami just because the Heat big 3 will outplay the Spurs big 3, with the supporting casts for each team nullifying each other.

They're just a well coached team, and to be honest, every team coached in the East isn't all that great. The Heat and Spurs are the only disciplined teams in the league. Can't blame the weak East on the Heat. It's not their fault. They just play with whatever they got. Until the league does the top 16 records get into the playoffs, this will continue to happen for the next decade.

shep33
05-14-2014, 02:11 PM
Weak east? The bobcats were 3rd in defense. The nets have 4 hall of famers( pierce, kg, dwill, johnson) plus head jason kidd. The pacers are vegas to win it all. The heat have the toughest road to the finals


I don't know if you're serious here.

The only East teams to qualify for the Western Conference Playoffs this year would have been Indy and Miami.

Heck, with the way Indy is playing, Dallas (the 8th seed out west) would probably give the Heat more trouble than any other team out East.

Again... not the Heat's fault that they get to play scrub teams.

Bruno
05-14-2014, 02:21 PM
Indy will challenge them. but the first two rounds is a bit of a joke for Miami, it was last year too.

P&GRealist
05-14-2014, 02:32 PM
Indy will challenge them. but the first two rounds is a bit of a joke for Miami, it was last year too.

Pacers will get SWEPT!!!!

Bruno
05-14-2014, 02:37 PM
Pacers will get SWEPT!!!!

no. i'd bet the house that Indy gets a game.

Tony_Starks
05-14-2014, 02:41 PM
I don't think its "bashing" the Heat. Everyone knows the East is a joke. History and facts proves that the east has been filled with less competitive teams than the west.

It's not news to anyone. Heat still deserve props for winning though. Not up to them who they play.

Thank you. You can't even mention how weak the east is without everyone going on their period an accusing you of Heat bashing. All season long we've talked about the east being sheer garbage compared to the west, no shocker here.

People need to quit being so sensitive, if they win another chip nobody will care how they did it. It'll still be a 3 peat.

d00d
05-14-2014, 02:42 PM
the NBA is pathetic now, the Heat should plan their parade now and get the champagne ordered early

COOLbeans
05-14-2014, 02:51 PM
Not 'literally' but I digress

Bring The Heat
05-14-2014, 03:11 PM
As soon as I read the title of this thread I already knew Illusionist would come in here and say the same exact crap he always does lol what a loser.. I have yet to see one post from this guy that doesn't involve bashing the miami heat

Bring The Heat
05-14-2014, 03:14 PM
I don't really think that's fair. I'll give you the Bobcats series, but that Charlotte team had no business being in the playoffs in the first place. Brooklyn, however, is no slouch and they've been very competitive in the series aside from an underwhelming Game 1 performance. I think Miami closes out this series tonight, but it wasn't exactly a cakewalk.

And should Indiana eventually put down Washington and make it to the Conference Finals, they won't be a guarantee either. As you've mentioned already, they have a very formidable front court when Hibbert is playing well (as he has against the Heat in the past) and they've played Miami as tough as anyone has the last two years. I'd still pick the Heat to win that series, but to rule out Indiana as any kind of a challenge (even when they're underachieving a bit) is pretty naive.

Sure, the Heat are the likely favorites in the East to make the Finals, but they should be. They've done it three straight years and they're the reigning back-to-back titles. Anything short of another championship will be deemed a failure. And, yes, the East has been totally underwhelming this season. But let's not try to diminish the Heat's accomplishments. If they win another title, it will have been well deserved and it will undoubtedly be an impressive feat. Few teams in the history of the league have accomplished that, and it's an enormous achievement no matter how they get there.

Very well said dude. This is an opinion people can respect unlike idiots like Illusionist who are so narrow minded calling everything the heat has ever a done a cake walk.

Tony_Starks
05-14-2014, 03:22 PM
It looks like childs play for them that's how good they are. You never know when the Pacers might suddenly click like they suddenly fell apart, so they could be a challenge. I don't see anybody closing them out, though. They might get put on the ropes again, but they'll come out on top. Every West team has struggled closing out games

Nah Indy is finished. The only reason they gave them problems before is because Hibbert was playing like a man possessed. Now he's possessed with the ghost of Kwamay Brown.

The way OKC/LA are finishing games I think we're in for a Finals rematch.

If I'm the Heat I tell Wade just go chill on the yacht with Gabby, we'll call you when the Finals start.

ManRam
05-14-2014, 03:41 PM
Indy really has been the let down here. For a while they looked like the best team in the league. Had they kept their **** together the East would both look significantly better right now and the Heat's path to the Finals would look at least somewhat formidable.

I do think BK isn't the slouch some to make them out to be. Are they LAC, OKC or SAS good? Nah. But they did have a 18-12 record against the West, so there's that. A whole season of that and they make it in the West. They really turned things around later on, and regardless of their age, the experience that team has is incredibly noteworthy. It was always a team that was gonna be "built for the playoffs".

Toronto was 40-22 after the Rudy Gay trade. They too had a winning record against the West.

Chicago unfortunately again lost their best player, but they finished the season essentially as hot as any team in the league.

Charlotte finished the season on a torrent too, granted, mostly against EC teams. They clearly were just chum for the Heat, however.

I don't know. The East stunk, but it's not as historically bad as people make it out to be. There's plenty of evidence of that posted lately. The Heat have an insanely easy path to the ECF, but is that their fault? Nah. It is what it is. It's been much-talked about. And hey, if it makes you feel better about what LeBron is doing to the league right now, so be it. Nothing wrong with that.


I'm sticking with my Indy-to-the-Finals pick, but it's just for pure stubbornness reasons. FYI.

mdm692
05-14-2014, 03:51 PM
I doubt it happens but I hope he makes his way to the West next year. It's becoming too boring to watch the East cause we know Miami will be in the finals. I want to see him go through the Clips, Spurs, OKC, Grizz, etc that way people can't make up bs excuses when it comes to his legacy.

ManRam
05-14-2014, 03:58 PM
Thank you for bringing in absolutely NOTHING to the thread topic as always!

Thank you. I'm a big fan of the adeptness of your posting too!

P&GRealist
05-14-2014, 04:03 PM
Thank you. I'm a big fan of the adeptness of your posting too!

It literally took you 3 hrs and 17 minutes to synthesize your ideas from that initial nonsensical, I don't want to partake in this thread post to post #35 of this thread.


SWEET! Good for you! :clap:

beyourself
05-14-2014, 04:22 PM
This is getting ridiculous the amount of threads you, Amoser, Illusionist and JordanBulls are involved in bashing the Heat get a life seriously. Your either all the same person or just a good example of how America needs to do a better job providing free birth control to prevent idiots like you 4

I don't know if I've created a Heat thread before.

still1ballin
05-14-2014, 04:29 PM
I don't think its "bashing" the Heat. Everyone knows the East is a joke. History and facts proves that the east has been filled with less competitive teams than the west.

It's not news to anyone. Heat still deserve props for winning though. Not up to them who they play.

i love you.

ManRam
05-14-2014, 04:31 PM
It literally took you 3 hrs and 17 minutes to synthesize your ideas from that initial nonsensical, I don't want to partake in this thread post to post #35 of this thread.


SWEET! Good for you! :clap:

I'm sorry a made a brief and sarcastic post! I know I have a reputation as a poster who posts short and ****** posts all the time! I've certainly NEVER had a problem with being concise! I shall never post in such silly ways and will always be more prompt with my serious posting! I know this is a problem I have! There is no place on PSD for nonsense! And far too often am I nonsensical! And yes, 3 hours and 17 minutes is inexcusable!

Oh, ****! I did it again! Damn it! Forgive me!

!

NBA_Starter
05-14-2014, 04:31 PM
They will probably play the Pacers in the next round.:shrug:

cmellofan15
05-14-2014, 05:01 PM
Not 'literally' but I digress

hahaha reminds me of someone...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlD9JYP8u5E

HYFR
05-14-2014, 05:04 PM
What an original thread topic

P&GRealist
05-14-2014, 05:05 PM
I'm sorry a made a brief and sarcastic post! I know I have a reputation as a poster who posts short and ****** posts all the time! I've certainly NEVER had a problem with being concise! I shall never post in such silly ways and will always be more prompt with my serious posting! I know this is a problem I have! There is no place on PSD for nonsense! And far too often am I nonsensical! And yes, 3 hours and 17 minutes is inexcusable!

Oh, ****! I did it again! Damn it! Forgive me!

!

:yawn:

P&GRealist
05-14-2014, 05:06 PM
i love you.

GTFO! He's mine. :drool:

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 11:51 AM
Exactly, it's pathetic!they have a cake walk every year.

Do you EVER have anything else to say? You are OBSESSED with the HEAT. You're a broken record man.

Do you ever post without quoting me? Get off my nuts!

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 11:53 AM
Here come the Lakers fan claiming the Lakers title run are superior to the Heat title and there should be an * next to the titles the Heat won. I'm waiting for IAmLoser to show up as his bff delusionist is here already.

It's true, the heat have only beat one quality team in 3 years. This is grossly pathetic. The Lakers played at leat three teams that would have smashed the heat when they had their run.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 11:55 AM
Weak east? The bobcats were 3rd in defense. The nets have 4 hall of famers( pierce, kg, dwill, johnson) plus head jason kidd. The pacers are vegas to win it all. The heat have the toughest road to the finals:laugh2: this post is 24k gold. Way to make it seem like the Nets have prime players. All of those guys are basically on their death bed, lololol@ j kid as the coach as a good thing. You Lebron fans are hilarious.

Crackadalic
05-15-2014, 12:20 PM
The heat do have it easy but let's not act like the teams they played were push overs.

East coast smash mouth basketball is not a easy style to play in a 7 game series.

The bobcats were top 5 I believe in defense efficiency. The nets were much better since jan 1.

Whoever they play in the ecf is either the best defensive team in the nba or a team who plays just as well on defense with a better offensive cast

This isn't no cake wake. Not like the run and gun west coast where defense has been a bit non existent in some games

beyourself
05-15-2014, 12:28 PM
The heat do have it easy but let's not act like the teams they played were push overs.

East coast smash mouth basketball is not a easy style to play in a 7 game series.

The bobcats were top 5 I believe in defense efficiency. The nets were much better since jan 1.

Whoever they play in the ecf is either the best defensive team in the nba or a team who plays just as well on defense with a better offensive cast

This isn't no cake wake. Not like the run and gun west coast where defense has been a bit non existent in some games

The Western Conference teams have better records for a reason though.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 12:29 PM
The heat do have it easy but let's not act like the teams they played were push overs.

East coast smash mouth basketball is not a easy style to play in a 7 game series.

The bobcats were top 5 I believe in defense efficiency. The nets were much better since jan 1.

Whoever they play in the ecf is either the best defensive team in the nba or a team who plays just as well on defense with a better offensive cast

This isn't no cake wake. Not like the run and gun west coast where defense has been a bit non existent in some gamesstop,just stop. The 8 seed in the west would easily make it to the efc. The bobcats are sad,no star, coach or anything, they don't even belong in the playoffs. The nets are pathetic too, old, slow and would be fish fry in the west. And the Pacers and wizards are the two worst teams left I the playoffs. These are scrimmages for the Heat. They have to beat one quality team to win the ship. The west has to beat 4.

ATX
05-15-2014, 12:36 PM
It's true, the heat have only beat one quality team in 3 years. This is grossly pathetic. The Lakers played at leat three teams that would have smashed the heat when they had their run.

Living in the past man...Living on Kobe's past glory is all you got...That's whats GROSSLY pathetic. I mean WTF does the Heat have to do with Kobe or the Lakers anyways? Why does the Heat's success concern you so much?

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 12:43 PM
:laugh2: this post is 24k gold. Way to make it seem like the Nets have prime players. All of those guys are basically on their death bed, lololol@ j kid as the coach as a good thing. You Lebron fans are hilarious.

Tittays, boottays, & suck me

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 12:44 PM
It's true, the heat have only beat one quality team in 3 years. This is grossly pathetic. The Lakers played at leat three teams that would have smashed the heat when they had their run.

Living in the past man...Living on Kobe's past glory is all you got...That's whats GROSSLY pathetic. I mean WTF does the Heat have to do with Kobe or the Lakers anyways? Why does the Heat's success concern you so much?
The guy stated something, so I had to confirm that the Lakers had to get their ships like men, while the Heat have water based rings. You just can't stay away from me can you?

Big Zo
05-15-2014, 01:03 PM
The guy stated something, so I had to confirm that the Lakers had to get their ships like men, while the Heat have water based rings. You just can't stay away from me can you?

I love Jim Buss.

5ass
05-15-2014, 01:42 PM
. *** the crier.

You're the one crying here, I'm enjoying watching LeBron 3peat. ;)

Crackadalic
05-15-2014, 02:02 PM
stop,just stop. The 8 seed in the west would easily make it to the efc. The bobcats are sad,no star, coach or anything, they don't even belong in the playoffs. The nets are pathetic too, old, slow and would be fish fry in the west. And the Pacers and wizards are the two worst teams left I the playoffs. These are scrimmages for the Heat. They have to beat one quality team to win the ship. The west has to beat 4.

At the end of the day unless your the spurs nobody has a shot at beating Miami and these playoffs showed it

Okc two man game will get eatin alive against Miami

Clippers has the talent but not the discipline to beat Miami

Spurs 100% has a legit shot because they win with ball movement and actually defend unlike the rest of the west coast team outside of Memphis and GS

Indiana don't move the ball enough and just like okc will falter against the heat and the wizards are too young and unproven

Bring The Heat
05-15-2014, 02:28 PM
The guy stated something, so I had to confirm that the Lakers had to get their ships like men, while the Heat have water based rings. You just can't stay away from me can you?

You do realize that everyday of your life (literally) consists of sitting down in front of a computer, typing on a keyboard telling people you never met in your life how much you hate LeBron and the Heat and trying to diminish every single one of their accomplishments....

Now that is GROSSLY pathetic.

t_money25
05-15-2014, 02:43 PM
It's true, the heat have only beat one quality team in 3 years. This is grossly pathetic. The Lakers played at leat three teams that would have smashed the heat when they had their run.

Really? Please tell what three teams you're talking about

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 03:02 PM
It's true, the heat have only beat one quality team in 3 years. This is grossly pathetic. The Lakers played at leat three teams that would have smashed the heat when they had their run.

Really? Please tell what three teams you're talking about08 spurs, 08-10 celtics for starters. And that is kobes last run. Don't get me started on the teams from the early 00's.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 03:03 PM
stop,just stop. The 8 seed in the west would easily make it to the efc. The bobcats are sad,no star, coach or anything, they don't even belong in the playoffs. The nets are pathetic too, old, slow and would be fish fry in the west. And the Pacers and wizards are the two worst teams left I the playoffs. These are scrimmages for the Heat. They have to beat one quality team to win the ship. The west has to beat 4.

At the end of the day unless your the spurs nobody has a shot at beating Miami and these playoffs showed it

Okc two man game will get eatin alive against Miami

Clippers has the talent but not the discipline to beat Miami

Spurs 100% has a legit shot because they win with ball movement and actually defend unlike the rest of the west coast team outside of Memphis and GS

Indiana don't move the ball enough and just like okc will falter against the heat and the wizards are too young and unprovenI was only talking about how easy it is to get out of the east.

Bostonjorge
05-15-2014, 03:10 PM
Miami has had the toughest road ever. Miami only has one player on this team. Wades average of 17 is not worth mentioning because he's done. Bosh hitting 17 3's is also pathetic for a C. How can anyone mess with that kind of C. Lebron has to somehow mess with a shooting C and finished SG.

Let's look at who they played.

Charlotte a team we all knew didn't need no playoff experience to be a juggernaut. Al Jefferson is also more dangerous when he tears something in his foot. There are about 25 deep on this team.

Then there's Brooklyn. This team was blessed to not have Lopez there to mess up there chemistry because they are better when Lopez is out. Joe, pierce, KG and especially Williams were all in prime form. Miami luckily survived and could of easily been swept.

I don't know if any team in history can beat these 2 teams back to back.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 03:12 PM
The guy stated something, so I had to confirm that the Lakers had to get their ships like men, while the Heat have water based rings. You just can't stay away from me can you?

You do realize that everyday of your life (literally) consists of sitting down in front of a computer, typing on a keyboard telling people you never met in your life how much you hate LeBron and the Heat and trying to diminish every single one of their accomplishments....

Now that is GROSSLY pathetic.

I don't come on everyday like most of you. I'm sorry you hate the fact that I have to regulate you guys. No one agrees with your guys' views outside this Internet forum. I just feel the need to let you guys know that you're all lost.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 03:16 PM
Miami has had the toughest road ever. Miami only has one player on this team. Wades average of 17 is not worth mentioning because he's done. Bosh hitting 17 3's is also pathetic for a C. How can anyone mess with that kind of C. Lebron has to somehow mess with a shooting C and finished SG.

Let's look at who they played.

Charlotte a team we all knew didn't need no playoff experience to be a juggernaut. Al Jefferson is also more dangerous when he tears something in his foot. There are about 25 deep on this team.

Then there's Brooklyn. This team was blessed to not have Lopez there to mess up there chemistry because they are better when Lopez is out. Joe, pierce, KG and especially Williams were all in prime form. Miami luckily survived and could of easily been swept.

I don't know if any team in history can beat these 2 teams back to back.

U think like me now. George

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 03:24 PM
08 spurs, 08-10 celtics for starters. And that is kobes last run. Don't get me started on the teams from the early 00's.

2012-2014 spurs are better than 2008-2011 spurs. They have been improving in srs over that span and also are getting back to an elite defense WITH an elite offense. In 2008 they still had a great defense but their depth and offense were not the same as it is now. They went to game 7 vs. the Hornets that year, a team many wouldn't consider as that great (people talk about the little help Paul had there, it was their only time out of the 1st round). They then lost in the first round 2 of the next 3 seasons and second round vs. Pheonix the other time. Could go into much more detail comparing teams each has faced but I doubt you would care to acknowledge anything that would go against your biases...



I don't come on everyday like most of you. I'm sorry you hate the fact that I have to regulate you guys. No one agrees with your guys' views outside this Internet forum. I just feel the need to let you guys know that you're all lost.

This is hilarious. Go outside and try talking to actual humans, person to person. Heck turn on the tv a few times during the day. It is your opinion on the matter that is far from what the normal person thinks. I know multiple Lakers fans here in Minnesota who don't think half the stuff you do. In fact most of them consider Lebron on track for a top 5 all time career (except 1 who is still sure Lebron will fall off soon).

P&GRealist
05-15-2014, 03:30 PM
2012-2014 spurs are better than 2008-2011 spurs. They have been improving in srs over that span and also are getting back to an elite defense WITH an elite offense. In 2008 they still had a great defense but their depth and offense were not the same as it is now. They went to game 7 vs. the Hornets that year, a team many wouldn't consider as that great (people talk about the little help Paul had there, it was their only time out of the 1st round). They then lost in the first round 2 of the next 3 seasons and second round vs. Pheonix the other time. Could go into much more detail comparing teams each has faced but I doubt you would care to acknowledge anything that would go against your biases...




This is hilarious. Go outside and try talking to actual humans, person to person. Heck turn on the tv a few times during the day. It is your opinion on the matter that is far from what the normal person thinks. I know multiple Lakers fans here in Minnesota who don't think half the stuff you do. In fact most of them consider Lebron on track for a top 5 all time career (except 1 who is still sure Lebron will fall off soon).

He never said 2008-2011 Spurs. He said 2008 Spurs. Read his post. That 2008 Spurs were defending champs, only to be ousted in the WCF by the recently newly formed Bryant-Gasol-Phil Lakers who were running on fumes. That 08 Spurs team were still a defensive juggernaut with prime Duncan, fresh off of Finals MVP Tony Parker, Prime Ginobili, and they had the best perimeter defender in Bruce Bowen on that team. They won a game 7 in New Orleans against the young CP3 Hornets in the 2nd round.

The 2008 Spurs are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the 2011-current Spurs. The 2008 Spurs would win their games defensively and could stop anyone whenever they wanted to, while the Spurs of the last 3-4 yrs have reinveted themselves with small ball and primarily win games because of their depth, ball movement and offensive team prowess. 2 totally completely different identities and styles of play.

P&GRealist
05-15-2014, 03:34 PM
Oh, and Bowen retired in 2009. In 2009, the Spurs lost to the 1st rd against Dallas, but Ginobili was injured that series.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 03:37 PM
2012-2014 spurs are better than 2008-2011 spurs. They have been improving in srs over that span and also are getting back to an elite defense WITH an elite offense. In 2008 they still had a great defense but their depth and offense were not the same as it is now. They went to game 7 vs. the Hornets that year, a team many wouldn't consider as that great (people talk about the little help Paul had there, it was their only time out of the 1st round). They then lost in the first round 2 of the next 3 seasons and second round vs. Pheonix the other time. Could go into much more detail comparing teams each has faced but I doubt you would care to acknowledge anything that would go against your biases...




This is hilarious. Go outside and try talking to actual humans, person to person. Heck turn on the tv a few times during the day. It is your opinion on the matter that is far from what the normal person thinks. I know multiple Lakers fans here in Minnesota who don't think half the stuff you do. In fact most of them consider Lebron on track for a top 5 all time career (except 1 who is still sure Lebron will fall off soon).

So you would rather have 3 old dudes than 3 guys in their prime?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 03:39 PM
08 spurs, 08-10 celtics for starters. And that is kobes last run. Don't get me started on the teams from the early 00's.

2012-2014 spurs are better than 2008-2011 spurs. They have been improving in srs over that span and also are getting back to an elite defense WITH an elite offense. In 2008 they still had a great defense but their depth and offense were not the same as it is now. They went to game 7 vs. the Hornets that year, a team many wouldn't consider as that great (people talk about the little help Paul had there, it was their only time out of the 1st round). They then lost in the first round 2 of the next 3 seasons and second round vs. Pheonix the other time. Could go into much more detail comparing teams each has faced but I doubt you would care to acknowledge anything that would go against your biases...



I don't come on everyday like most of you. I'm sorry you hate the fact that I have to regulate you guys. No one agrees with your guys' views outside this Internet forum. I just feel the need to let you guys know that you're all lost.

This is hilarious. Go outside and try talking to actual humans, person to person. Heck turn on the tv a few times during the day. It is your opinion on the matter that is far from what the normal person thinks. I know multiple Lakers fans here in Minnesota who don't think half the stuff you do. In fact most of them consider Lebron on track for a top 5 all time career (except 1 who is still sure Lebron will fall off soon).

We'll I guess it's different in all regions, because the Heat fans I know say Kobe's def better and hasnt had to endure what Kobe has.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 03:43 PM
08 spurs, 08-10 celtics for starters. And that is kobes last run. Don't get me started on the teams from the early 00's.

2012-2014 spurs are better than 2008-2011 spurs. They have been improving in srs over that span and also are getting back to an elite defense WITH an elite offense. In 2008 they still had a great defense but their depth and offense were not the same as it is now. They went to game 7 vs. the Hornets that year, a team many wouldn't consider as that great (people talk about the little help Paul had there, it was their only time out of the 1st round). They then lost in the first round 2 of the next 3 seasons and second round vs. Pheonix the other time. Could go into much more detail comparing teams each has faced but I doubt you would care to acknowledge anything that would go against your biases...



I don't come on everyday like most of you. I'm sorry you hate the fact that I have to regulate you guys. No one agrees with your guys' views outside this Internet forum. I just feel the need to let you guys know that you're all lost.

This is hilarious. Go outside and try talking to actual humans, person to person. Heck turn on the tv a few times during the day. It is your opinion on the matter that is far from what the normal person thinks. I know multiple Lakers fans here in Minnesota who don't think half the stuff you do. In fact most of them consider Lebron on track for a top 5 all time career (except 1 who is still sure Lebron will fall off soon).

Wrong! The spurs had a trio in their prime, that alone makes them better that the 2012-2014. And I didn't even say anything about 09-11 you did. Let's not even mention the handful of 00 teams that would bend the Heat over.

P&GRealist
05-15-2014, 03:48 PM
Wrong! The spurs had a rio in their prime, that alone makes them better that the 2012-2014. And I didn't even say anything about 09-11 you did. Let's not even mention the handful of 00 teams that would bend the Heat over.

2000 Portland, all the Spurs teams, Kings 2002. I do agree with this statement.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 03:48 PM
He never said 2008-2011 Spurs. He said 2008 Spurs. Read his post. That 2008 Spurs were defending champs, only to be ousted in the WCF by the recently newly formed Bryant-Gasol-Phil Lakers who were running on fumes. That 08 Spurs team were still a defensive juggernaut with prime Duncan, fresh off of Finals MVP Tony Parker, Prime Ginobili, and they had the best perimeter defender in Bruce Bowen on that team. They won a game 7 in New Orleans against the young CP3 Hornets in the 2nd round.

The 2008 Spurs are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the 2011-current Spurs. The 2008 Spurs would win their games defensively and could stop anyone whenever they wanted to, while the Spurs of the last 3-4 yrs have reinveted themselves with small ball and primarily win games because of their depth, ball movement and offensive team prowess. 2 totally completely different identities and styles of play.

I did, and I also used the series vs. the Hornets as an example from that year. They were almost ousted by a team never able to make it out of the first round any other year. Then they played a very talented laker team and lost. My goal isn't to bash the lakers, it is to point out that the spurs have certainly gotten better since then. Their SRS that year was 7th in the league in 2008, in 2007 when they won it was 1st and in 2013 it was 3rd (this year it is first again).

The 2008 Spurs were still very good Defensively but they fell off on offense. They were middle of the pack on that end during the season. The Spurs over the last two seasons have been 3rd in defensive ranking like in 2008, but they have been top 10 offensive teams which has been the key (in 2009 they were still very good defensively but still middle of the pack on O, they have gradually changed over the years which is why I used those time frames). They got both sides of the ball fixed by 2012 instead of being one dimensional. Khawi is a better player than Bowen and PArker is a better player today than in 2008. Duncan hasn't fallen off much, I believe he has been in DOPY discussions still recently. On top of this they added depth and the ability to spread the floor and work teams offensively.

Yes they were the defending champs but does that alone make them better than the 2013 spurs? The reason they weren't defending champs is they played a Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka combination that the Heat were also able to beat (name a more talented team from 2007 they had to face). The spurs were still a solid team in 2008 but they have been better recently because they are more well rounded (offense + defense + depth) as I pointed out above.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 03:51 PM
So you would rather have 3 old dudes than 3 guys in their prime?

Parker was in MVP discussions last year, I don't remember that from 2008. Duncan hasn't had a hige decline at all and has also been mentioned for DPOY recently. Read the post above for more info on why the Spurs as a TEAM were better. Feel free to argue from there.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 03:56 PM
What a surprise, laker fans all think that they played the hardest teams ever. I have a serious question for you 3, do you all live in California? Just curious because I know multiple Laker fans and they don't act this way at all, they give credit where it is due and understand the game. I'm wondering if it is more of a hometown bias type of thing here.

JC_
05-15-2014, 04:01 PM
..because the Heat fans I know say Kobe's def better and hasnt had to endure what Kobe has.

i've only been watching basketball for a year now so forgive my ignorance but who is this Kobe guy you speak of? Is he a bench player or retired or something? cause i've never heard of him

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 04:01 PM
Lol, bad argument to make gopher. I actually like you so please just let this one go.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 04:05 PM
Lol, bad argument to make gopher. I actually like you so please just let this one go.

What is a bad argument to make? That a team ranked 7th in offense and 3rd in defense is better than a team ranked 15th in offense and 3rd in defense? That it takes a team to win so having more well rounded team with many offensive contributors while also being great defensively is a step up? Care to actually bring an argument to the table here?

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 04:47 PM
Parker was in MVP discussions last year, I don't remember that from 2008. Duncan hasn't had a hige decline at all and has also been mentioned for DPOY recently. Read the post above for more info on why the Spurs as a TEAM were better. Feel free to argue from there.

Ok, u can throw the "as a team were better" mvps, dpoty awards out the window in the 4th quarter of a finals game. It dont matter.

U know duncan, parker, gino cant substain the whole fourth quarter. They are not young like james, wade, bosh. I rather go with a prime duncan, parker, gino down the stretch any day

P&GRealist
05-15-2014, 04:49 PM
i've only been watching basketball for a year now so forgive my ignorance but who is this Kobe guy you speak of? Is he a bench player or retired or something? cause i've never heard of him

You and many others on this site unfortunately.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:00 PM
Ok, u can throw the "as a team were better" mvps, dpoty awards out the window in the 4th quarter of a finals game. It dont matter.

U know duncan, parker, gino cant substain the whole fourth quarter. They are not young like james, wade, bosh. I rather go with a prime duncan, parker, gino down the stretch any day

So you will ignore the fact that they were a better overall team to push the idea that old players can't win championships, even when Pop does a fantastic job resting them throughout the year to keep them as fresh as possible. How in the world are they on their way to their third WCF in 3 years then? I hate to break it to you but just because they are older now doesn't mean they still aren't great and capable of winning championships. They were a better overall team as I have pointed out, and no I don't think "but they were old" is a great reason to discredit their team. The only way they can get to "down the stretch" is by having a great all around team which they did have in 2013 and didn't quite in 2008 (missing the offense and extra depth).

Edit: You do know they swept Memphis while Heat went 7 vs. Pacers giving them extra time to rest too, right?

JC_
05-15-2014, 05:08 PM
You and many others on this site unfortunately.

come on man, why u gotta **** block my trolling attempt?

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 05:09 PM
So you would rather have 3 old dudes than 3 guys in their prime?

Parker was in MVP discussions last year, I don't remember that from 2008. Duncan hasn't had a hige decline at all and has also been mentioned for DPOY recently. Read the post above for more info on why the Spurs as a TEAM were better. Feel free to argue from there.

Come on gopher, there is no way you can say that the 12 trio was on the same level as a 6 years younger version. Just stop bro.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 05:10 PM
What a surprise, laker fans all think that they played the hardest teams ever. I have a serious question for you 3, do you all live in California? Just curious because I know multiple Laker fans and they don't act this way at all, they give credit where it is due and understand the game. I'm wondering if it is more of a hometown bias type of thing here.so are you saying the the Heat have faced teams as good as the top five teams Kobe has beaten?

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:12 PM
Come on gopher, there is no way you can say that the 12 trio was on the same level as a 6 years younger version. Just stop bro.

I am not making that argument, I am saying the Spurs were better as a team. Like I said what is your argument against them. Here is from my other post:

What is a bad argument to make? That a team ranked 7th in offense and 3rd in defense is better than a team ranked 15th in offense and 3rd in defense? That it takes a team to win so having more well rounded team with many offensive contributors while also being great defensively is a step up? Care to actually bring an argument to the table here?

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 05:13 PM
So you will ignore the fact that they were a better overall team to push the idea that old players can't win championships, even when Pop does a fantastic job resting them throughout the year to keep them as fresh as possible. How in the world are they on their way to their third WCF in 3 years then? I hate to break it to you but just because they are older now doesn't mean they still aren't great and capable of winning championships. They were a better overall team as I have pointed out, and no I don't think "but they were old" is a great reason to discredit their team. The only way they can get to "down the stretch" is by having a great all around team which they did have in 2013 and didn't quite in 2008 (missing the offense and extra depth).

Edit: You do know they swept Memphis while Heat went 7 vs. Pacers giving them extra time to rest too, right?

You mostly win rings in your prime with a allstar and a few decent role players. Thats how it is. History dont lie. Thats why the spurs havent won crap since then. Close but no cigar because the spurs dont have that superstar go to guy. The heat do

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 05:17 PM
Come on gopher, there is no way you can say that the 12 trio was on the same level as a 6 years younger version. Just stop bro.

I am not making that argument, I am saying the Spurs were better as a team. Like I said what is your argument against them. Here is from my other post:

What is a bad argument to make? That a team ranked 7th in offense and 3rd in defense is better than a team ranked 15th in offense and 3rd in defense? That it takes a team to win so having more well rounded team with many offensive contributors while also being great defensively is a step up? Care to actually bring an argument to the table here? I would much rather have my trio in their prime then have better role players, and that is a regular season stay. They could have been on cruise control for all we know. Then there's the fact that the "better" team you're talking about ran out of gas, which goes back to my point that they are old and beat up.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 05:18 PM
So you will ignore the fact that they were a better overall team to push the idea that old players can't win championships, even when Pop does a fantastic job resting them throughout the year to keep them as fresh as possible. How in the world are they on their way to their third WCF in 3 years then? I hate to break it to you but just because they are older now doesn't mean they still aren't great and capable of winning championships. They were a better overall team as I have pointed out, and no I don't think "but they were old" is a great reason to discredit their team. The only way they can get to "down the stretch" is by having a great all around team which they did have in 2013 and didn't quite in 2008 (missing the offense and extra depth).

Edit: You do know they swept Memphis while Heat went 7 vs. Pacers giving them extra time to rest too, right?

You mostly win rings in your prime with a allstar and a few decent role players. Thats how it is. History dont lie. Thats why the spurs havent won crap since then. Close but no cigar because the spurs dont have that superstar go to guy. The heat do

Winner

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:24 PM
I would much rather have my trio in their prime then have better role players, and that is a regular season stay. They could have been on cruise control for all we know. Then there's the fact that the "better" team you're talking about ran out of gas, which goes back to my point that they are old and beat up.

They played great throughout the finals. They have been making it to WCF the past 3 years so how is that possible if they are out of gas. Ya I'm sure they randomly chose 2008 regular season to go cruise control and then happened to go 7 games vs. new orleans. I doubt it had anything to do with being a worse team at the time.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:34 PM
You mostly win rings in your prime with a allstar and a few decent role players. Thats how it is. History dont lie. Thats why the spurs havent won crap since then. Close but no cigar because the spurs dont have that superstar go to guy. The heat do

Not many teams in the past have had a player like Duncan. It is extremely rare to still be that good at this age, you are basically discrediting him though because of it. Most teams win with an elite big man inside (at least defensively) but the Heat don't have one. Guess it is impossible they could ever win a title too huh? Just because it hasn't happened as often in the past doesn't mean it can't happen with a new group of players. This new group I mentioned has now proven themselves 3 straight years while being better as a whole than 2008. If you can't see why the 2013 Spurs are better that is up to you, but I won't write them off just because "they are old". In fact it is really only two players who fit the "old category", the rest of their team has a nice mix.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 05:36 PM
I would much rather have my trio in their prime then have better role players, and that is a regular season stay. They could have been on cruise control for all we know. Then there's the fact that the "better" team you're talking about ran out of gas, which goes back to my point that they are old and beat up.

They played great throughout the finals. They have been making it to WCF the past 3 years so how is that possible if they are out of gas. Ya I'm sure they randomly chose 2008 regular season to go cruise control and then happened to go 7 games vs. new orleans. I doubt it had anything to do with being a worse team at the time.

Did you watch the finals last year? Duncan was tired as **** all series, and ginobi had never looked worse in his career

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:36 PM
We'll I guess it's different in all regions, because the Heat fans I know say Kobe's def better and hasnt had to endure what Kobe has.

Endure? My friends have only seen Kobe in one game 7 finals on his way to a title. They have seen Lebron's performances in all of his (that would be 3 total). They also saw where Bird thought James 2012 might be the best of all time. Are you and your friends in/from California though? That was my question.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-15-2014, 05:38 PM
You mostly win rings in your prime with a allstar and a few decent role players. Thats how it is. History dont lie. Thats why the spurs havent won crap since then. Close but no cigar because the spurs dont have that superstar go to guy. The heat do

Not many teams in the past have had a player like Duncan. It is extremely rare to still be that good at this age, you are basically discrediting him though because of it. Most teams win with an elite big man inside (at least defensively) but the Heat don't have one. Guess it is impossible they could ever win a title too huh? Just because it hasn't happened as often in the past doesn't mean it can't happen with a new group of players. This new group I mentioned has now proven themselves 3 straight years while being better as a whole than 2008. If you can't see why the 2013 Spurs are better that is up to you, but I won't write them off just because "they are old". In fact it is really only two players who fit the "old category", the rest of their team has a nice mix. The bottom line is you want your stars to be in their prime so you have a fighting chance. Now do you want to get into the 5-10 other teams that Kobe has faced that are better than any team bron has faced?

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 05:39 PM
Not many teams in the past have had a player like Duncan. It is extremely rare to still be that good at this age, you are basically discrediting him though because of it. Most teams win with an elite big man inside (at least defensively) but the Heat don't have one. Guess it is impossible they could ever win a title too huh? Just because it hasn't happened as often in the past doesn't mean it can't happen with a new group of players. This new group I mentioned has now proven themselves 3 straight years while being better as a whole than 2008. If you can't see why the 2013 Spurs are better that is up to you, but I won't write them off just because "they are old". In fact it is really only two players who fit the "old category", the rest of their team has a nice mix.

If they spurs beat the heat this yr, i will suck u dry

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:39 PM
Did you watch the finals last year? Duncan was tired as **** all series, and ginobi had never looked worse in his career

I definitely watched. He wasn't quite as good as in his prime no doubt but was still solid, how can you claim that? Did you watch the series? How was he so bad in your opinion?

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 05:41 PM
The bottom line is you want your stars to be in their prime so you have a fighting chance. Now do you want to get into the 5-10 other teams that Kobe has faced that are better than any team bron has faced?

Exactly, thats why old duncan was taken out. Cuz hes not the prime duncan who can chase down the loose rebound

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:44 PM
Alright just went back and looked for you guys. The tired Duncan ended the series with his last two games averaging: 27ppg 14.5 rpg on 53.4 FG%. He had two games that were bad and both were in the blow outs where it didn't really matter (although I'm sure in the loss it contributed to the Heat winning that game).

I really don't see how you guys are using the argument that Duncan was too old. He played very good when the Spurs needed him to and had a better overall supporting cast (than his 2008 team).

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:48 PM
The bottom line is you want your stars to be in their prime so you have a fighting chance. Now do you want to get into the 5-10 other teams that Kobe has faced that are better than any team bron has faced?

Definitely, but you also need to have a great supporting cast for them to win too. As a team the 2013 Spurs were better. Duncan hadn't fallen off a cliff or anything (as my last post showed he wasn't tired as you claimed) and Ginobli was more of a role player than great 6th man but having the overall depth and offense was the reason they have been able to compete these last 3 years and couldn't back then.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 05:52 PM
If they spurs beat the heat this yr, i will suck u dry

No thanks.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 05:53 PM
No thanks.

Its all good. No means yes

koreancabbage
05-15-2014, 07:15 PM
The bottom line is you want your stars to be in their prime so you have a fighting chance. Now do you want to get into the 5-10 other teams that Kobe has faced that are better than any team bron has faced?

the bottom line is to get to the Finals. doesn't matter if you're in the prime or not.

Kobe was led by Pau Gasol and Shaq - and Kobe played a great robin to their batman. that says it all.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 07:25 PM
Alright just went back and looked for you guys. The tired Duncan ended the series with his last two games averaging: 27ppg 14.5 rpg on 53.4 FG%. He had two games that were bad and both were in the blow outs where it didn't really matter (although I'm sure in the loss it contributed to the Heat winning that game).

I really don't see how you guys are using the argument that Duncan was too old. He played very good when the Spurs needed him to and had a better overall supporting cast (than his 2008 team).

U see, the numbers is not gunna tell the whole story. SA look gas at the end

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 07:26 PM
the bottom line is to get to the Finals. doesn't matter if you're in the prime or not.

Kobe was led by Pau Gasol and Shaq - and Kobe played a great robin to their batman. that says it all.

It does matter cuz the refs will give u special treatment like lebron, kobe, shaq, duncan

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 07:32 PM
U see, the numbers is not gunna tell the whole story. SA look gas at the end

So he says the whole series, now its just at the end (I must assume you mean games here since I showed what he did in the final two games). Look you can keep narrowing things down and not looking at the entire picture but this Spurs team was ranked better and played better in the playoffs as a whole. They weren't gassed when they swept Memphis but were a round later? I backed up my opinion with statistics and data multiple times and all I keep getting from you guys is new random thoughts which change every time I refute them. If you can explain why, as a team, 2008 Spurs were better I am willing to listen. If you are just going to say they were tired at the end of games then how did they get through the tough West in the first place. Wouldn't they always be tired at the end?

naps
05-15-2014, 07:37 PM
Do you EVER have anything else to say? You are OBSESSED with the HEAT. You're a broken record man.

Gotta love how jealous kobephiles are. It gives me a lot joy to read their posts about Heat and LeBron. I mean Vince Carter and Allen Iverson are not in their primes for them to compare their boy with them. Prime Shaq with Vince or AI or T-Mac yield more than 4 rings in 8 years.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 07:41 PM
So he says the whole series, now its just at the end (I must assume you mean games here since I showed what he did in the final two games). Look you can keep narrowing things down and not looking at the entire picture but this Spurs team was ranked better and played better in the playoffs as a whole. They weren't gassed when they swept Memphis but were a round later? I backed up my opinion with statistics and data multiple times and all I keep getting from you guys is new random thoughts which change every time I refute them. If you can explain why, as a team, 2008 Spurs were better I am willing to listen. If you are just going to say they were tired at the end of games then how did they get through the tough West in the first place. Wouldn't they always be tired at the end?

Memphis is not miami. Miami is a powerhouse. & they swept memphis, duncan relax that series. It is a huge factor

I take the 2008 spurs against the heat. Duncan will get his share of calls. You know how refs are. Thats the difference

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 07:49 PM
Memphis is not miami. Miami is a powerhouse. & they swept memphis, duncan relax that series. It is a huge factor IMO

Memphis just took the Thunder to 7 games. Spurs swept them in the playoffs last year. You are just discrediting current teams to say the spurs get too tired at the end of games to win. It all fits in with your bias opinion.

If they get too tired at the end of every game how does that happen? Like I said do you have any info other than that opinion? I have backed mine up with multiple facts and statistics while you continue to say the same couple of lines. First Duncan is tired and crappy all series now it is just at the end of games (since the other point was dis proven). Do you have anything else that would imply 2008 Spurs were better? Seems you are just ignoring facts and statistics to push your opinion on the matter. At least bring something to the table here.

kobe4thewinbang
05-15-2014, 08:53 PM
The Pacers just need to quit screwing around and wake up for Miami.

Paul George needs to bother LeBron (as the defender) and wear him down, so even if he has 50 points, maybe the other Heat players aren't splashing 3's and whatnot, maybe Wade doesn't play well. Charles Barkley was talking about it--Miami will likely face Indiana, and then Spurs/Thunder/Clippers, so I'm not sure if a comparatively easy road to this point helps or hinders the Heat. I mean, Miami almost lost Game 5 to the Nets. They were down, and against better teams, that can't happen or it's likely they won't pull off a comeback. They certainly have Game 6 of the Finals to argue what I'm saying, but I don't see lightning striking twice. By all means, Miami should be more focused. They have shooters, depth--everything! But like I said, they almost let Game 5 slip away to the Nets.

I am curious if--let's say Tony Parker is fine and the Spurs don't gas out before the Finals--Popovich will tell his players to back off LeBron again like last season. It took LeBron 7 games to finally start hitting the shots he needed to hit. Or maybe Kawhi will devote himself to wearing LeBron down.

Like Barkley said, if other guys aren't making enough shots, especially Wade & Bosh, then LeBron has a tough road ahead and I think it *might* not have a happy ending, i.e. no 3-Peat. Barkley & Kenny are saying Miami is no longer the favorite.

Getting back to the how pitiful the Eastern Conference is, it would've been nice to see Miami need 7 games to beat Charlotte or Brooklyn, ya know?

JasonJohnHorn
05-15-2014, 09:04 PM
The Heat LITERALLY started their playoffs on April 20th, 2014.

NBA_Starter
05-15-2014, 09:06 PM
the heat literally started their playoffs on april 20th, 2014.

fact!

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 10:12 PM
Memphis just took the Thunder to 7 games. Spurs swept them in the playoffs last year. You are just discrediting current teams to say the spurs get too tired at the end of games to win. It all fits in with your bias opinion.

If they get too tired at the end of every game how does that happen? Like I said do you have any info other than that opinion? I have backed mine up with multiple facts and statistics while you continue to say the same couple of lines. First Duncan is tired and crappy all series now it is just at the end of games (since the other point was dis proven). Do you have anything else that would imply 2008 Spurs were better? Seems you are just ignoring facts and statistics to push your opinion on the matter. At least bring something to the table here.


I have for the i dont know how many time. Simply cuz they're all in their prime. Sorry im not a stat guy. I go by what they actually do on the playing field.

All it comes down is a matter of opionions. Me, im not confident with my old guys in a game 7 on a road against of the greatest player ever.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 10:26 PM
I have for the i dont know how many time. Simply cuz they're all in their prime. Sorry im not a stat guy. I go by what they actually do on the playing field.

All it comes down is a matter of opionions. Me, im not confident with my old guys in a game 7 on a road against of the greatest player ever.

The question is about if Spurs team in 2008 or 2013 is better, are you even paying attention? It has nothing to do with old guys in game 7 against one of the greatest players ever. The old guys you speak of put up 24 pts, 12 rebounds, and 2 assists on 44% from the field (Duncan) and 18 points, 3 rebounds and 5 assists on 50% from the field (Manu). Both of these players who were "too old and tired" had better game 7's than they did in an elimination game vs. the Lakers in 2008.

Look lets just end this here and agree to disagree. There is no point in speaking with someone who has no intention of defending his opinion just wants to say it over and over while ignoring everything posted. Based on what I have seen from you on these forums you aren't here to talk/debate much basketball anyways. Have a great day.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 10:34 PM
The question is about if Spurs team in 2008 or 2013 is better, are you even paying attention? It has nothing to do with old guys in game 7 against one of the greatest players ever. The old guys you speak of put up 24 pts, 12 rebounds, and 2 assists on 44% from the field (Duncan) and 18 points, 3 rebounds and 5 assists on 50% from the field (Manu). Both of these players who were "too old and tired" had better game 7's than they did in an elimination game vs. the Lakers in 2008.

Look lets just end this here and agree to disagree. There is no point in speaking with someone who has no intention of defending his opinion just wants to say it over and over while ignoring everything posted. Based on what I have seen from you on these forums you aren't here to talk/debate much basketball anyways. Have a great day.

Dude, i already said the 2008 spurs are better simply cuz duncan, parker, ginobli are much younger and i dont like 3 old guys playing deep in a game 6/7 games. Why cant u understand that

Oh. And u always throw out stats left and right. Thats cool tho. Do i complain about that. No. U like stats? Thats fine. I dont. The end

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 10:42 PM
Dude, i already said the 2008 spurs are better simply cuz duncan, parker, ginobli are much younger and i dont like 3 old guys playing deep in a game 6/7 games. Why cant u understand that

Oh. And u always throw out stats left and right. Thats cool tho. Do i complain about that. No. U like stats? Thats fine. I dont. The end

I have shown you multiple times how they played great in thos games and it has been ignored by you saying the same thing and not having any sort of counterpoint to what I say. Just the same old thing again and again and again. Have a great day!

NBA_Starter
05-15-2014, 10:47 PM
Well we have the series everyone wanted now!

IndyRealist
05-15-2014, 10:47 PM
Pacers/Heat it is.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 10:47 PM
I have shown you multiple times how they played great in thos games and it has been ignored by you saying the same thing and not having any sort of counterpoint to what I say. Just the same old thing again and again and again. Have a great day!

By showing me stats? Like i said stats doesnt tell the whole story. Theyre misleading to me.

Ok u go by stats, i go by how they actual play. Deal?

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 10:49 PM
Pacers/Heat it is.

What a shocker hey mate?

bucketss
05-15-2014, 10:50 PM
By showing me stats? Like i said stats doesnt tell the whole story. Theyre misleading.

Ok u go by stats, i go by how they actual play. Deal?

im not done with you from the other thread, can you explain how 2009 celtics were prime, but the 2010 celtics were not? what happened in that one year?

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 10:55 PM
By showing me stats? Like i said stats doesnt tell the whole story. Theyre misleading.

Ok u go by stats, i go by how they actual play. Deal?

lol except I go by how they actually play too, you are ignoring that. If you have any actual counter arguments feel free. Everything I have said is still there, feel free to make an argument if you wish. Our eyes saw different things and mine were backed up by stats and performance by the team (results that were listed, not just stats).

If you disagree with anything then go ahead. If not you are saying despite having the better overall team, overall playoff performances, and the fact that the two "old guys" actually played great in game 7 you still think the 2008 spurs are better solely because Duncan and Manu were too old to play well in a game 6/7 of the finals. The best individual player doesn't win the game, the best team does. If you disagree with what I said before feel free to add counterpoints. You go with your bias, I go by what I see, especially when it is backed up by the stats and results.

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 10:57 PM
Pacers/Heat it is.

As an Indy fan do you think you guys will perform at the same level as usual now that it is ECF? What is going on with you guys this last half of the season? I really hope we get an entertaining series but I find myself questioning the Pacers more this year.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 11:03 PM
im not done with you from the other thread, can you explain how 2009 celtics were prime, but the 2010 celtics were not? what happened in that one year?

Ok, i already answer u that. But i do it again.

Boston big 3 best yrs 2008, 2009, 2010

Lakers beat them in 2010
Lebron lost to them twice during that time
Finally beat them in 2012 when the big 3 have already collapse while the new big 3 was form

koreancabbage
05-15-2014, 11:08 PM
Ok, i already answer u that. But i do it again.

Boston big 3 best yrs 2008, 2009, 2010

Lakers beat them in 2010
Lebron lost to them twice during that time
Finally beat them in 2012 when the big 3 have already collapse while the new big 3 was form

love it people are saying player x lost to any team lol. time to think a little bigger now.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 11:09 PM
lol except I go by how they actually play too, you are ignoring that. If you have any actual counter arguments feel free. Everything I have said is still there, feel free to make an argument if you wish. Our eyes saw different things and mine were backed up by stats and performance by the team (results that were listed, not just stats).

If you disagree with anything then go ahead. If not you are saying despite having the better overall team, overall playoff performances, and the fact that the two "old guys" actually played great in game 7 you still think the 2008 spurs are better solely because Duncan and Manu were too old to play well in a game 6/7 of the finals. The best individual player doesn't win the game, the best team does. If you disagree with what I said before feel free to add counterpoints. You go with your bias, I go by what I see, especially when it is backed up by the stats and results.

The best individual player dont win games. Come on. U honestly believe the refs dont give lebron superstar fouls?

Individuals do win because they get treat differently by refs. Ask jordan, kobe, shaq, lebron

bucketss
05-15-2014, 11:11 PM
Ok, i already answer u that. But i do it again.

Boston big 3 best yrs 2008, 2009, 2010

Lakers beat them in 2010
Lebron lost to them twice during that time
Finally beat them in 2012 when the big 3 have already collapse while the new big 3 was form

wrong, they beat them in 2010-2011 playoffs, miami big three first year together., correction on my part. 2010 celtics u said was prime, but didn't mention the 2011 celtics being prime.

lebron only lost to them in 2008( this was their championship year) and 2010

bucketss
05-15-2014, 11:13 PM
love it people are saying player x lost to any team lol. time to think a little bigger now.

im just playing along. hes being very biased inconsistent and biased though LOL

JC_
05-15-2014, 11:13 PM
Ok, i already answer u that. But i do it again.

Boston big 3 best yrs 2008, 2009, 2010

Lakers beat them in 2010
Lebron lost to them twice during that time
Finally beat them in 2012 when the big 3 have already collapse while the new big 3 was form

what do you mean by "collapse"? They still had Pierce, Garnett, Allen, and Rondo. or did you mean that they "collapsed" when they were beaten by the new big 3 in 2011?

mngopher35
05-15-2014, 11:18 PM
love it people are saying player x lost to any team lol. time to think a little bigger now.

This guy see's the game in supertars only it appears. I don't blame him as that is what is on ESPN all day, but it is impossible to have discussions because all he can say is "player X was better then though".


The best individual player dont win games. Come on. U honestly believe the refs dont give lebron superstar fouls?

Individuals do win because they get treat differently by refs. Ask jordan, kobe, shaq, lebron

No individuals win because they are spectacular players on great TEAMS. How do they win some years but not others? It is because there are 5 players on the court at a time, maybe your eyes don't see that. It doesn't come down to this player is better which makes this TEAM better. Why didn't Kobe win after Shaq and before Pau? Why didn't Lebron win on the Cavs? Why did Malone never win? Was KG a better player on the Celtics than in Minnesota? Nope, winning and losing titles has to do with being a better overall team, not having the best superstar of the bunch.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 11:19 PM
wrong, they beat them in 2010-2011 playoffs, miami big three first year together., correction on my part. 2010 celtics u said was prime, but didn't mention the 2011 celtics being prime.

lebron only lost to them in 2008( this was their championship year) and 2010

Ok i miss that one. My bad. They did beat them in 2011. But that was there 4th yr together. That boston team was getting weaker while the big 3 was form

Yeah i said lebron lost to them twice during their best years and lebron beat them twice during their downfall years just like the pistons downfall yrs

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 11:39 PM
This guy see's the game in supertars only it appears. I don't blame him as that is what is on ESPN all day, but it is impossible to have discussions because all he can say is "player X was better then though".



No individuals win because they are spectacular players on great TEAMS. How do they win some years but not others? It is because there are 5 players on the court at a time, maybe your eyes don't see that. It doesn't come down to this player is better which makes this TEAM better. Why didn't Kobe win after Shaq and before Pau? Why didn't Lebron win on the Cavs? Why did Malone never win? Was KG a better player on the Celtics than in Minnesota? Nope, winning and losing titles has to do with being a better overall team, not having the best superstar of the bunch.

Listen. Superstar needs be in their prime along with an allstar, and decent role players. Thats the main recipe for a championships. All those are important, but first thing first u need a superstar in the making to win rings.

Why didnt malone win. Cuz jordan, olajuwon, drob were simply better than him
Y didnt lebron win. U cant win with 1 superstar
Y didnt kg win. Cuz of shaq kobe
Y didnt kobe and shaq win. Cuz of malone

Jordan was a loser until he reach his peak and magic, bird, isiah got old

Olajuwon won during his peak sAme with shaq, kobe, lebron. Hostory repeats itself mAjority of the time

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 11:43 PM
what do you mean by "collapse"? They still had Pierce, Garnett, Allen, and Rondo. or did you mean that they "collapsed" when they were beaten by the new big 3 in 2011?

Downfall years

bucketss
05-15-2014, 11:45 PM
Ok i miss that one. My bad. They did beat them in 2011. But that was there 4th yr together. That boston team was getting weaker while the big 3 was form

Yeah i said lebron lost to them twice during their best years and lebron beat them twice during their downfall years just like the pistons downfall yrs

what you're saying is in 2010 when kobe faced them, they were in their prime and everything was good, but the very next year when lebron takes them on all of a sudden they're hasbeens? truth be told, they were NOT iin their primes neither 2010 or 2011, actually kg seemed to find the fountain of youth in 2011 but i will let that go.

bucketss
05-15-2014, 11:47 PM
Downfall years

which includes 2010

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 11:54 PM
what you're saying is in 2010 when kobe faced them, they were in their prime and everything was good, but the very next year when lebron takes them on all of a sudden they're hasbeens? truth be told, they were NOT iin their primes neither 2010 or 2011, actually kg seemed to find the fountain of youth in 2011 but i will let that go.

Prime as in the big 3. That what i meant

Hawkeye15
05-15-2014, 11:56 PM
The best individual player dont win games. Come on. U honestly believe the refs dont give lebron superstar fouls?

Individuals do win because they get treat differently by refs. Ask jordan, kobe, shaq, lebron

The best TEAM wins. How hard is that to understand? Do you want to know why LeBron didn't win before he got to Miami? Because his roster was a complete joke outside of him.

I really don't get how hard it is for you to understand, though I read a page ago you are very adverse to statistical evidence. That may be a starting point for you to start learning the game a little bit more in depth.

bathroom_man
05-15-2014, 11:57 PM
Kobe face a tougher celtics team than lebron. But its not lebron fault. He was born later

Hawkeye15
05-15-2014, 11:58 PM
Kobe face a tougher celtics team than lebron. But its not lebron fault. He was born later

LeBron faced a tougher Pistons team after the Pistons team that beat Kobe's team, and LeBron beat them.

So?

bucketss
05-15-2014, 11:59 PM
Kobe face a tougher celtics team than lebron. But its not lebron fault. He was born later

what? the 2010 celtics team, perkins was injured in game 6, and garnett was a shell of his former self. LOL GTFOH

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:00 AM
The best TEAM wins. How hard is that to understand? Do you want to know why LeBron didn't win before he got to Miami? Because his roster was a complete joke outside of him.

I really don't get how hard it is for you to understand, though I read a page ago you are very adverse to statistical evidence. That may be a starting point for you to start learning the game a little bit more in depth.

Read my above post.

Now u jump In here & tell me go learn the game in depth. Okay daddy

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 12:01 AM
Read my above post.

Now u jump In here & tell me go learn the game in depth. Okay daddy

I have read enough of your biased posts.

Yes, you are not a stat guy, which is where you are missing the boat. If you fail to embrace them, you are missing the big picture. Son.

You are full of agenda, and opinions with no evidence.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:02 AM
what? the 2010 celtics team, perkins was injured in game 6, and garnett was a shell of his former self. LOL GTFOH

Garnett hot worse after that when lebron handed to him. Lebron beat them in the latter years. And kendrick perkins? Gtfo

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 12:03 AM
Garnett hot worse after that when lebron handed to him. Lebron beat them in the latter years. And kendrick perkins? Gtfo

when Perkins went down, the Lakers deep frontcourt had no problem overwhelming the Boston interior defense to close the series. This is a fact.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:04 AM
I have read enough of your biased posts.

Yes, you are not a stat guy, which is where you are missing the boat. If you fail to embrace them, you are missing the big picture. Son.

You are full of agenda, and opinions with no evidence.

So youre a stat guy so i say ur missing the boat, kiddo

And i said stats dont tell the whole story. Misleading sometimes. Read my posts dangit

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:06 AM
when Perkins went down, the Lakers deep frontcourt had no problem overwhelming the Boston interior defense to close the series. This is a fact.

But what about the other time when the lakers beat them 3x with perks. Overwhelming too huh?

bucketss
05-16-2014, 12:07 AM
Garnett hot worse after that when lebron handed to him. Lebron beat them in the latter years. And kendrick perkins? Gtfo

see now im questioning your basketball knowledge. anyone who knows basketball knew the impact perkins had.

lol garnett was coming off injury that season he took on kobes lakers, he was not the same the whole year. he harldy could jump and average barley 5 boards in that series. the 2011 KG was a healthy rejuvenated garnett that was dropping double double man how much do you know?

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 12:09 AM
So youre a stat guy so i say ur missing the boat, kiddo

And i said stats dont tell the whole story. Misleading sometimes. Read my posts dangit

been watching since 1984 religiously. But I also don't ignore stats, I embrace the evolution of sports.


But what about the other time when the lakers beat them 3x with perks. Overwhelming too huh?

I was referring directly to a specific year regarding Perkins injury. The Lakers also suffered the same fate in 2008 when Bynum had issues.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:10 AM
Right u lnow how to tell the future on kendrick perkins. I could say the same thing about a injure worthy malone but i wont

bucketss
05-16-2014, 12:13 AM
Right u lnow how to tell the future on kendrick perkins. I could say the same thing about a injure worthy malone but i wont

thats all you have to say? LOL

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 12:17 AM
Right u lnow how to tell the future on kendrick perkins. I could say the same thing about a injure worthy malone but i wont

what? I don't even understand what that means. I am saying, for a specific series a handful of years ago, when Perkins had actual worth, when he went down, the DEEP Lakers frontcourt was able to finish the Cs off.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:18 AM
been watching since 1984 religiously. But I also don't ignore stats, I embrace the evolution of sports.



I was referring directly to a specific year regarding Perkins injury. The Lakers also suffered the same fate in 2008 when Bynum had issues.

Im not gunna get into the what ifs game

Ok, k start watching bball when u were 8, how long did u took u to know all the bells n whistles. Right away. I say no wAy in hell unless u gots brains of a pc. Most ppl cant even grasp the concept until they 17 18.

mngopher35
05-16-2014, 12:20 AM
Listen. Superstar needs be in their prime along with an allstar, and decent role players. Thats the main recipe for a championships. All those are important, but first thing first u need a superstar in the making to win rings.

Why didnt malone win. Cuz jordan, olajuwon, drob were simply better than him
Y didnt lebron win. U cant win with 1 superstar
Y didnt kg win. Cuz of shaq kobe
Y didnt kobe and shaq win. Cuz of malone

Jordan was a loser until he reach his peak and magic, bird, isiah got old

Olajuwon won during his peak sAme with shaq, kobe, lebron. Hostory repeats itself mAjority of the time

Well at least the bold acknowledges teammates matter. Still the 2004 Lakers with Shaq and Kobe didn't win over non stars. Why did they lose in 2003? 2 stars vs. Duncan with Robinson being too old (sounds familiar) and Parker just entering the league. There are countless examples throughout the years where superstars haven't won series. Now do they win more often than not, sure. But it all depends on their teams.

Now superstars are definitely huge when it comes to championships don't get me wrong but you have such a simplistic view of the game it is crazy. If what you were saying is true there would be no point in watching. Luckily teams win games and the surrounding cast is important.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:22 AM
what? I don't even understand what that means. I am saying, for a specific series a handful of years ago, when Perkins had actual worth, when he went down, the DEEP Lakers frontcourt was able to finish the Cs off.

But did perkins play in the lakers 3 wins? The lakers finish them off too. Stop naking excuses for the celtics. I never make excuses for the womping in 2008 cuz of no bynum.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 12:27 AM
Im not gunna get into the what ifs game

Ok, k start watching bball when u were 8, how long did u took u to know all the bells n whistles. Right away. I say no wAy in hell unless u gots brains of a pc. Most ppl cant even grasp the concept until they 17 18.

well, my Dad played college and pro ball, so I kinda grew up being taught a lot more than normal. His pro ball was VERY short lived haha, but he still taught me a lot. By age 13, he and I argued about MJ/Bird non-stop. By 1995, I had been watching the game religiously, and reading the books released by Cousy, Sharman, Knight (Season on a Brink), and multiple other books. I studied under BJ Armstrong, and Matt Bullard's shooting coach Des Flood, trained with Trent Tucker at his camp, and played organized leagues by age 18 with multiple ex-Gophers, most known is Kevin Lynch, and I played high school basketball with Clem Haskins son, who I went to multiple basketball camps to play with, along with Dr. Tom Davis from Iowa.

I didn't fully understand the specifics of the game until the mid 90's. Going forward, every year I understand more. Why? Experience, and BETTER INFORMATION. Ie, statistical evidence getting stronger and stronger.

When I was a kid, high volume scores like Dantley, English, or Wilkins were considered top 10 players. When in reality, reflecting back, they weren't.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:28 AM
Well at least the bold acknowledges teammates matter. Still the 2004 Lakers with Shaq and Kobe didn't win over non stars. Why did they lose in 2003? 2 stars vs. Duncan with Robinson being too old (sounds familiar) and Parker just entering the league. There are countless examples throughout the years where superstars haven't won series. Now do they win more often than not, sure. But it all depends on their teams.

Now superstars are definitely huge when it comes to championships don't get me wrong but you have such a simplistic view of the game it is crazy. If what you were saying is true there would be no point in watching. Luckily teams win games and the surrounding cast is important.

I hzve mention teammates many times, u prob miss my posts here & there. Its ok.

The 2003 lakers was gunning for the 4th in a row. U knew it was gunna sooner or later. And that spurs team was pretty damn good. And i say many times, that pistons team was special but also thr lakers choke

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:33 AM
well, my Dad played college and pro ball, so I kinda grew up being taught a lot more than normal. His pro ball was VERY short lived haha, but he still taught me a lot. By age 13, he and I argued about MJ/Bird non-stop. By 1995, I had been watching the game religiously, and reading the books released by Cousy, Sharman, Knight (Season on a Brink), and multiple other books. I studied under BJ Armstrong, and Matt Bullard's shooting coach Des Flood, trained with Trent Tucker at his camp, and played organized leagues by age 18 with multiple ex-Gophers, most known is Kevin Lynch, and I played high school basketball with Clem Haskins son, who I went to multiple basketball camps to play with, along with Dr. Tom Davis from Iowa.

I didn't fully understand the specifics of the game until the mid 90's. Going forward, every year I understand more. Why? Experience, and BETTER INFORMATION. Ie, statistical evidence getting stronger and stronger.

When I was a kid, high volume scores like Dantley, English, or Wilkins were considered top 10 players. When in reality, reflecting back, they weren't.

Good to know u inherit all that. I
started following basketball religiously
during jordan first run 1991. 13 at the time

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 12:34 AM
I hzve mention teammates many times, u prob miss my posts here & there. Its ok.

The 2003 lakers was gunning for the 4th in a row. U knew it was gunna sooner or later. And that spurs team was pretty damn good. And i say many times, that pistons team was special but also thr lakers choke

and as I have said, LeBron beat a better Pistons team than the one that beat the Lakers.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 12:37 AM
Good to know u inherit all that. I
started following basketball religiously
during jordan first run 1991. 13 at the time

I started watching religiously in 1985, the year after I was introduced to it. The 1984 finals was my first taste of the greatest sport ever. I didn't fully grasp everything until the mid 90's, when I was probably 18-19 years old, but it was in my every day routine from age 8 on.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:39 AM
and as I have said, LeBron beat a better Pistons team than the one that beat the Lakers.

Gotta dissgree man. That pistons was on their downfall year after 2 straight finals appearances. Larry brown quit. Flip saunder was the coach. Although they had a great reg. season,

Bostonjorge
05-16-2014, 12:39 AM
The question is about if Spurs team in 2008 or 2013 is better, are you even paying attention? It has nothing to do with old guys in game 7 against one of the greatest players ever. The old guys you speak of put up 24 pts, 12 rebounds, and 2 assists on 44% from the field (Duncan) and 18 points, 3 rebounds and 5 assists on 50% from the field (Manu). Both of these players who were "too old and tired" had better game 7's than they did in an elimination game vs. the Lakers in 2008.

Look lets just end this here and agree to disagree. There is no point in speaking with someone who has no intention of defending his opinion just wants to say it over and over while ignoring everything posted. Based on what I have seen from you on these forums you aren't here to talk/debate much basketball anyways. Have a great day.

U can't really believe this spurs team is better now then before when they were younger, faster and stronger. They played good but not great like u say. A good game here and there is not enough to convince anyone. Wade outplayed every single player on the spurs. His stat line beats out every single spurs player. Would u say wade played good? Do u go at heat fans who say lebron had no help and took the least amount of help ever to a ring?

There have been a number of treads how Lebron had no real help or wade is out his prime, finished ect. Wade out scored every single spurs player. Only had less asst then Parker. Only 1 less steal then Lenard and doubled every other spurs player up. 1 less block then Duncan. Can't see how a greater spurs team let this happen when wade was finished and couldn't put up these numbers against the bucks. Manu did nothing better then wade only turn the ball over more then younger Manu ever did.

Bostonjorge
05-16-2014, 12:46 AM
LeBron faced a tougher Pistons team after the Pistons team that beat Kobe's team, and LeBron beat them.

So?
Are u joking? That Detroit team was better how? Let me guess Detroit was even better the very next year when they got the 8th seed and got swept.

bathroom_man
05-16-2014, 12:46 AM
I started watching religiously in 1985, the year after I was introduced to it. The 1984 finals was my first taste of the greatest sport ever. I didn't fully grasp everything until the mid 90's, when I was probably 18-19 years old, but it was in my every day routine from age 8 on.

About same timeline as mine . I remember pretty damn well when i was 13 when i started watching my lakers & magic get own by jordan in the finals. I knew jordan was on the up and coming and magic was on the downfall. The lakers championship was when magic toss the ball to the other court as time expires against the blazers

Bostonjorge
05-16-2014, 01:01 AM
Well at least the bold acknowledges teammates matter. Still the 2004 Lakers with Shaq and Kobe didn't win over non stars. Why did they lose in 2003? 2 stars vs. Duncan with Robinson being too old (sounds familiar) and Parker just entering the league. There are countless examples throughout the years where superstars haven't won series. Now do they win more often than not, sure. But it all depends on their teams.

Now superstars are definitely huge when it comes to championships don't get me wrong but you have such a simplistic view of the game it is crazy. If what you were saying is true there would be no point in watching. Luckily teams win games and the surrounding cast is important.

Lakers lost because shaq weighted his most in 2003 while still in his prime. Shaq tried to get in shape during the season. Kobe played great but shaq was to heavy but still played at a high level but not the 2001 or 2002 shaq.

Against Detroit lakers would of won if shaq would of let that laker team be kobes team. Shaq was again out of shape but did not want to play off of kobe. Shaq cared more about the finals MVP.

The very next year shaq lost 30 pounds with Miami. Shaq played great again and this time had no problem feeding off of wade in the finals even tho shaq was the main reason they beat Detroit. The very next year as defending champs shaq gains weight and get swept in the 1st rd to Hinrich and the bulls.

mngopher35
05-16-2014, 02:00 AM
U can't really believe this spurs team is better now then before when they were younger, faster and stronger. They played good but not great like u say. A good game here and there is not enough to convince anyone. Wade outplayed every single player on the spurs. His stat line beats out every single spurs player. Would u say wade played good? Do u go at heat fans who say lebron had no help and took the least amount of help ever to a ring?

There have been a number of treads how Lebron had no real help or wade is out his prime, finished ect. Wade out scored every single spurs player. Only had less asst then Parker. Only 1 less steal then Lenard and doubled every other spurs player up. 1 less block then Duncan. Can't see how a greater spurs team let this happen when wade was finished and couldn't put up these numbers against the bucks. Manu did nothing better then wade only turn the ball over more then younger Manu ever did.

This is not true. He had an ortg of 104. Duncan had an Ortg of 112. Yes he had more points but it is because he had a higher volume of shots. You can't just look at one statistic and call it game from there. He scored 5 more points in the series, but on many more shots. Then when you think about which one was anchoring the defense on the other end it isn't close. They didn't have a good game here or there, they swept two teams, beat Golden State in 6, and almost beat the Heat (in what everyone considers a great Western conference since the Heat trio formed). It was a great playoff run that was extremely close to getting a title.

Khawi and Danny Green were big for them in the finals, Khawi especially played great. If you can let me know who in 2008 came up that big as the supporting cast I would love to know. As stated before it takes a team to win and that Spurs team had better playoff performances throughout and had a better SRS, ORTG and the same DRTG throughout the season. The Spurs currently have a much deeper team and better offense than in 2008 with a great defense still. 3 players alone do not win the title and it is why the Spurs struggled vs. the hornets that year. If they were the same deep team they wouldn't have had as much trouble and would have put up a fight vs. those lakers at least. Going by playoff stats alone Duncan was about the same that year as this year. That wasn't quite the case, but it is because at the time they had less offensive fire power and depth outside of their 3 best players.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2014, 02:08 AM
U can't really believe this spurs team is better now then before when they were younger, faster and stronger. They played good but not great like u say. A good game here and there is not enough to convince anyone. Wade outplayed every single player on the spurs. His stat line beats out every single spurs player. Would u say wade played good? Do u go at heat fans who say lebron had no help and took the least amount of help ever to a ring?

There have been a number of treads how Lebron had no real help or wade is out his prime, finished ect. Wade out scored every single spurs player. Only had less asst then Parker. Only 1 less steal then Lenard and doubled every other spurs player up. 1 less block then Duncan. Can't see how a greater spurs team let this happen when wade was finished and couldn't put up these numbers against the bucks. Manu did nothing better then wade only turn the ball over more then younger Manu ever did.

wait, did you watch Wade last year in the playoffs? He was horrific by his standards. He was an average starting SG essentially. 15 a night on a PER of 18.

mngopher35
05-16-2014, 02:08 AM
Lakers lost because shaq weighted his most in 2003 while still in his prime. Shaq tried to get in shape during the season. Kobe played great but shaq was to heavy but still played at a high level but not the 2001 or 2002 shaq.

Against Detroit lakers would of won if shaq would of let that laker team be kobes team. Shaq was again out of shape but did not want to play off of kobe. Shaq cared more about the finals MVP.

The very next year shaq lost 30 pounds with Miami. Shaq played great again and this time had no problem feeding off of wade in the finals even tho shaq was the main reason they beat Detroit. The very next year as defending champs shaq gains weight and get swept in the 1st rd to Hinrich and the bulls.

I am not sure if you are serious here. In the Finals Shaq scored 26.6 ppg on .615 TS% with an ORTG of 111. He also grabbed 10 boards per game. Kobe on the other hand had 22.6 ppg on .456 TS% with an ORTG of 90. Kobe was trying to prove he was the man and basically shot them out of it. I know you are a huge fan but at least acknowledge when it is a certain players fault. Don't go blaming Shaq for everything, that is ridiculous.

The reason I was asking him those things is because he was saying players, as in individuals, win championships. Teams win championships, it doesn't solely come down to who has the best superstar. That was the point to be made with that. Thanks for your input on the Lakers demise though, I suggest next time maybe re-watching before blaming it on Shaq again.

Bostonjorge
05-16-2014, 02:24 AM
wait, did you watch Wade last year in the playoffs? He was horrific by his standards. He was an average starting SG essentially. 15 a night on a PER of 18.

Not in the finals.

Bostonjorge
05-16-2014, 02:57 AM
I am not sure if you are serious here. In the Finals Shaq scored 26.6 ppg on .615 TS% with an ORTG of 111. He also grabbed 10 boards per game. Kobe on the other hand had 22.6 ppg on .456 TS% with an ORTG of 90. Kobe was trying to prove he was the man and basically shot them out of it. I know you are a huge fan but at least acknowledge when it is a certain players fault. Don't go blaming Shaq for everything, that is ridiculous.

The reason I was asking him those things is because he was saying players, as in individuals, win championships. Teams win championships, it doesn't solely come down to who has the best superstar. That was the point to be made with that. Thanks for your input on the Lakers demise though, I suggest next time maybe re-watching before blaming it on Shaq again.

I'm just saying shaq weight was a problem. Detroit did not double shaq at all that series and his D was not the same. Lakers were the best 2 players in the whole league and role players who could shoot and play D. Lakers needes shaq and kobe to be the best players to matchup against these stacked teams. Lakers needed shaq from 1998- 2002 with 2002 being the worst shaq of his super prime.

Now I don't hate shaq he's my favorite player believe it or not. I truly believe shaq from 1999-2001 was the most dominate and had the biggest impact on the court then even Jordan in my opinion. Shaq just never had the drive kobe and jordan still have today. Shaq had it for a moment but then just wanted to have fun. I don't hate the guy.

I mean he's made my favorite show inside the NBA even better.

Shlumpledink
05-16-2014, 03:07 AM
There are more than 3 teams in the east? Could have fooled me

mngopher35
05-16-2014, 03:08 AM
I'm just saying shaq weight was a problem. Detroit did not double shaq at all that series and his D was not the same. Lakers were the best 2 players in the whole league and role players who could shoot and play D. Lakers needes shaq and kobe to be the best players to matchup against these stacked teams. Lakers needed shaq from 1998- 2002 with 2002 being the worst shaq of his super prime.

Now I don't hate shaq he's my favorite player believe it or not. I truly believe shaq from 1999-2001 was the most dominate and had the biggest impact on the court then even Jordan in my opinion. Shaq just never had the drive kobe and jordan still have today. Shaq had it for a moment but then just wanted to have fun. I don't hate the guy.

I mean he's made my favorite show inside the NBA even better.

Alright, I just thought you were going overboard on him. He actually played pretty well that series but he wasn't quite the same player, sure. There were bigger issues in the finals imo, they should have actually gone through him a little more I think. I think the drive thing is somewhat there but overstated at times. He had the foot issue to start and was ready to go come playoff time. I wouldn't compare him to Kobe or Jordan in that sense, but few if any in history make that cut off.

I might agree with you on the dominating thing. Shaq was just an absolute force in his prime. Defenses had to focus so much energy on him and even then it didn't work. At that time he was also a great anchor on defense, which did decline over the years. He had a huge impact on both sides of the court, it isn't crazy to compare that to any player.

Chronz
05-16-2014, 03:15 AM
I'm just saying shaq weight was a problem. Detroit did not double shaq at all that series and his D was not the same. Lakers were the best 2 players in the whole league and role players who could shoot and play D. Lakers needes shaq and kobe to be the best players to matchup against these stacked teams. Lakers needed shaq from 1998- 2002 with 2002 being the worst shaq of his super prime.

Now I don't hate shaq he's my favorite player believe it or not. I truly believe shaq from 1999-2001 was the most dominate and had the biggest impact on the court then even Jordan in my opinion. Shaq just never had the drive kobe and jordan still have today. Shaq had it for a moment but then just wanted to have fun. I don't hate the guy.

I mean he's made my favorite show inside the NBA even better.
Alot of what you said was true, but can you remind me who it was that refused to reign in his offense, even at his coaches behest? Shaq had declined for a variety of reasons but he got up for this series.

Chronz
05-16-2014, 03:20 AM
Lakers lost because shaq weighted his most in 2003 while still in his prime. Shaq tried to get in shape during the season. Kobe played great but shaq was to heavy but still played at a high level but not the 2001 or 2002 shaq.
If Kobe played great, then so did Shaq.


Against Detroit lakers would of won if shaq would of let that laker team be kobes team. Shaq was again out of shape but did not want to play off of kobe. Shaq cared more about the finals MVP.

LMFAO , at this attempt at revisionist history, Kobe was the one who shot more than his coaches liked, just as it was for his teammates throughout his career. If you know anything about that season, its FAR more likely Kobe cared more about Finals MVP than winning.


The very next year shaq lost 30 pounds with Miami. Shaq played great again and this time had no problem feeding off of wade in the finals even tho shaq was the main reason they beat Detroit. The very next year as defending champs shaq gains weight and get swept in the 1st rd to Hinrich and the bulls.
He did shed weight, but he was continuing to shed the weight the year prior as well, it was a product of his toe surgery/ongoing complications. But he actually got hurt the first year in Miami, he then GAINED weight the following year (the championship year).

IKnowHoops
05-16-2014, 03:24 AM
Alright, I just thought you were going overboard on him. He actually played pretty well that series but he wasn't quite the same player, sure. There were bigger issues in the finals imo, they should have actually gone through him a little more I think. I think the drive thing is somewhat there but overstated at times. He had the foot issue to start and was ready to go come playoff time. I wouldn't compare him to Kobe or Jordan in that sense, but few if any in history make that cut off.

I might agree with you on the dominating thing. Shaq was just an absolute force in his prime. Defenses had to focus so much energy on him and even then it didn't work. At that time he was also a great anchor on defense, which did decline over the years. He had a huge impact on both sides of the court, it isn't crazy to compare that to any player.

Desire without ability can be a hinderance. And with Kobe that was the case. He played himself by trying to win games himself, when the easier and more effective route was to go the guy with less desire but triple the dominance in Shaq. And then play off him.

Bostonjorge
05-16-2014, 03:46 AM
Alot of what you said was true, but can you remind me who it was that refused to reign in his offense, even at his coaches behest? Shaq had declined for a variety of reasons but he got up for this series.

Kobe was having his best scoring and asst during those playoffs up to that point. The ball kept going thru kobe and shaq would focus more on D and playing off of kobe. Then during the final the ball started going tru Shaq. This was the begging of the end. Lakers started to play a different style the older style that won them titles but shaq was not the same. Ben Wallace had his best series against shaq in almost every single area. Because shaq started to focus on O more. Shaq had his highest asst all playoff since they kept throwing it in instead of letting kobe run the offensive who would have his lowest asst in the playoffs.

I'm not saying shaq sucked or anything because he didn't. It's just lakers were shaq and kobe and that's it. Mevadenko George and old *** Payton started with them. The way shaq let kobe be the best in past years shaq needed to let kobe do the same for him. Kobe leading shaq would of won 3 strait again.

Shaq and kobe greatest 1 2 punch ever.