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View Full Version : NBA All-Time Redraft (2) Boise vs (7) Amherst



Matter.
05-13-2014, 05:26 PM
Hello Everyone. Welcome to the NBA All-time redraft playoffs. These will be a battle between two made up teams from our host of GMs in to see who reigns superiority over all of basketball. There is a slight twist in this All-time: each team has a starter from each decade. Please read the write-ups and vote for who you think would win in a 7 game series.

BOISE HAS HOME COURT ADVANTAGE

Boise Depth Chart:
C: Marcus Camby/Kevin Willis
PF: Kevin Mchale/Jerry Lucas/Dale Davis
SF: Elgin Baylor/Luol Deng/Brent Barry
SG: Joe Johnson/Sam Jones
PG: Magic Johnson/Rod Strickland

vs

Amherst Depth Chart
PG: Mookie Blaylock | Lenny Wilkens
SG: Reggie Miller | Jerry Sloan
SF: Larry Bird | Cedric Maxwell
PF: Larry Nance | Connie Hawkins | David West
C: Alonzo Mourning | Brian Grant | Serge Ibaka

Boise Writeup:

Our offensive plan is real simple, we are going to run you out of the building. We have one of the best scorers to ever play the game in Baylor pair that up with the greatest pg to ever play the game. In the half court when the game is slowed down we are going to go to Mchale in the post and run some isos for Baylor. Magic in this matchup would kill pretty much anyone they can put on him, his size is too much, if they have Mookie on him we might see 30-12 in the series. Joe Johnson is the perfect fit to spread the floor. Ahmerest has so many weapons to worry about in Baylor Magic, Mchale, Joe will see plenty of open looks. Camby one of those energy guys that loves to hit the glass, his hustle will lead to easy buckets. Off the bench we have Rod Strickland 18/10
I'm his best year, the great "Mr clutch" Sam Jones put in over 23 in his prime, and was known to be a player that never cracked under
Pressure. Then we have Luol Deng who is mostly here for his defense but he isn't a guy you can leave open from 3. Jerry Lucas the tough bruiser, he will bring energy off the bench with tough defense some rebounding and he also had very good range for a big man. We have the perfect offensive flow between running you out of the building and even when the game slows down we can beat you in a half court set. Ahmerest built a great team but we have to many weapons offensively for him to stop. One last point is if Larry nance (205 pounds) is the answer for mchale there is little hope of slowing mchale down.


Our defensive game plan is to have our wings force the Ahmerest wings to the paint where we have two good defensive bigs in McHale and Camby. Camby the defensive player of the year in 2007 and a 2 time all defensive first team player and 2 time 2nd team defensive player and for the years we selected averaged 3.3 BPG. McHale has been a 3 time defensive first team player, and a 3 time 2nd team defensive player who averaged 1.8 BPG. Both of these players would make the Ahmerest Bigs work and make their wings struggle to get their shot off near the rim. As for the wings we would just run it straight up (magic on mookie, Joe on Miller, Baylor on Bird). While none of those guys are great defenders they are all allstars with supreme athletic ability that would allow them to force his wings to compete. Also when building a good defensive team the most important part is to have bigs to funnel the players into forcing them to either take a long contested jumper or take a floater neither of which is a great shot. Then if we ever needed more defense we have Luol Deng and Sam jones off of the bench to bring in some defense. We also have a very gifted rebounding team with magic being a great rebounder, Joe being above average, Baylor being great(top 10 in rebounding 8 times), Mchale being average, and Camby being above average.

xnick5757
05-13-2014, 07:45 PM
Quite frankly I think my team (Amherst) matches up very well against this team. We simply have too many scorers for them to be able to keep up.

First off, there is the obvious duo of Miller and Bird. Miller is being guarded by Joe Johnson - who even in his prime played very little defense. Bird is guarded by Baylor, who also is known more for his scoring abilities then his defense. Miller and Bird will be able to score all day against their defenders.

Mookie Blaylock, known as one of the better defenders at PG, is guarding their best player (Magic). He might not be able to stop him completely, but he would definitely be able to slow him down.

Our team is nicely balanced. We have four legitimate scorers; Miller on the outside, Nance in the mid-range/post game, Zo inside, and Bird everywhere. Boise could simply not keep up with the amount of points that Amherst would be able to score.


Boise says their gameplan is to "force Amherst's wings to the paint. I don't see how they could accomplish this. If they double team Bird or Miller to force them inside, it opens up the other on the outside, where they both were deadly from 3. Every member of their team is going to have to play 1 on 1 with my guys because my team is full of scorers.

xxplayerxx23
05-13-2014, 07:50 PM
Magic is way to big for him. You have no answers for any of our offense.

KnicksorBust
05-13-2014, 08:18 PM
Quite frankly I think my team (Amherst) matches up very well against this team. We simply have too many scorers for them to be able to keep up.

First off, there is the obvious duo of Miller and Bird. Miller is being guarded by Joe Johnson - who even in his prime played very little defense. Bird is guarded by Baylor, who also is known more for his scoring abilities then his defense. Miller and Bird will be able to score all day against their defenders.

Mookie Blaylock, known as one of the better defenders at PG, is guarding their best player (Magic). He might not be able to stop him completely, but he would definitely be able to slow him down.

Our team is nicely balanced. We have four legitimate scorers; Miller on the outside, Nance in the mid-range/post game, Zo inside, and Bird everywhere. Boise could simply not keep up with the amount of points that Amherst would be able to score.


Boise says their gameplan is to "force Amherst's wings to the paint. I don't see how they could accomplish this. If they double team Bird or Miller to force them inside, it opens up the other on the outside, where they both were deadly from 3. Every member of their team is going to have to play 1 on 1 with my guys because my team is full of scorers.

I'm assuming it would take all of one quarter before Boise realizes to put Kevin McHale on Larry Bird. Meanwhile, Amherst has the worst perimeter defense in the redraft. Blaylock is a nice touch but Magic could just bully him in the post and Baylor/Joe will be blowing by their defenders all game. The transition offense of Boise would be unstoppable in this series with Joe spotting (picture Phoenix Joe Johnson) and just raining 3's as he slides back into his natural position as a 4th option. Meanwhile in the half-court game, McHale and Magic can play a 2 man game and McHale as the go-to option in the post.

I like Boise in 5.

Iggz53
05-13-2014, 09:19 PM
I like Boise here but Amherst is way too good to be a 7 seed.

Sadds The Gr8
05-13-2014, 09:53 PM
Boise easy

mightybosstone
05-13-2014, 11:32 PM
Meanwhile, Amherst has the worst perimeter defense in the redraft.
I also like Boise in 5, but this statement is simply not true. Amherst has one of the greatest defensive PGs of all time and a pretty damn good defensive 3 in Larry Bird. Hardly one of the worst perimeter defenses in this game, even with Reggie.

The_Jamal
05-13-2014, 11:52 PM
Boise cruises. Just too many weapons for Amherst to handle.

Shammyguy3
05-14-2014, 12:04 AM
Boise has 3 of the 4 best players on either team (Magic/Baylor/McHale vs Bird)

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 12:11 AM
I'm assuming it would take all of one quarter before Boise realizes to put Kevin McHale on Larry Bird. Meanwhile, Amherst has the worst perimeter defense in the redraft. Blaylock is a nice touch but Magic could just bully him in the post and Baylor/Joe will be blowing by their defenders all game. The transition offense of Boise would be unstoppable in this series with Joe spotting (picture Phoenix Joe Johnson) and just raining 3's as he slides back into his natural position as a 4th option. Meanwhile in the half-court game, McHale and Magic can play a 2 man game and McHale as the go-to option in the post.

I like Boise in 5.

What? :confused: Agree with MBT. Since when is Mookie a bad defender? And since when is Larry Bird a bad defender? Not sure I've ever seen an all-defensive teamer be called a bad defender. Or sorry- TWO all-defensive teamers. Sure Reggie sucks but thats 1 guy.

Also, I think I like Amherst way more than most. That team has crazy good spacing and as mentioned above, Bird and Mookie were actually good defenders. Mostly, I just LOVE the way Amherst meshes.

But yeah, as someone else mentioned, Boise is just way more talented and thats despite my hatred of Joe Johnson and Camby starting.

Ebbs
05-14-2014, 01:03 AM
magic and bird round 1 lol

Matter.
05-14-2014, 02:08 PM
Bump

KnicksorBust
05-14-2014, 02:42 PM
I also like Boise in 5, but this statement is simply not true. Amherst has one of the greatest defensive PGs of all time and a pretty damn good defensive 3 in Larry Bird. Hardly one of the worst perimeter defenses in this game, even with Reggie.

Mookie is one of the greatest defensive PGs of all-time?

Frazier
West
Sloan
Buse
DJ
Mo
Alvin Robertson
Glove
Kidd
Paul

He's bubble for top 10 so let's cool it with the hyperbole.

KnicksorBust
05-14-2014, 02:43 PM
What? :confused: Agree with MBT. Since when is Mookie a bad defender? And since when is Larry Bird a bad defender? Not sure I've ever seen an all-defensive teamer be called a bad defender. Or sorry- TWO all-defensive teamers. Sure Reggie sucks but thats 1 guy.

Also, I think I like Amherst way more than most. That team has crazy good spacing and as mentioned above, Bird and Mookie were actually good defenders. Mostly, I just LOVE the way Amherst meshes.

But yeah, as someone else mentioned, Boise is just way more talented and thats despite my hatred of Joe Johnson and Camby starting.

Find me 3 teams worse than them. And I thought you of all people wouldn't exaggerate the impact of a PGs defense.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 05:40 PM
Find me 3 teams worse than them. And I thought you of all people wouldn't exaggerate the impact of a PGs defense.

I'll get back to you on that after looking at all the teams. And I certainly am not exaggerating Mookie's defensive impact. And I realize Reggie sucks. So I guess this whole topic comes down to Bird's defense. And while I think that some of these all-defensive teams can be flat out wrong sometimes, I've never believed that anyone whose made one of those teams is a bad defender.

Also, I'm full aware of the general overratedness of Bird's D (with McHale being the real guy behind the Celts D) but at the same time, I think we can at least assume and say with confidence that Bird was a good defender. You can put him on players in this game and he'll do a good job. And we both seem willing to acknowledge that Sloan is a good defender to backup Reggie. So I guess I'm wondering where your perception that Amherst's perimeter defense is horrible is coming from?

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 05:52 PM
^Actually, the team who they are facing- Boise, is their perimeter defense really any better than Amhersts? I suppose I could be on board with Magic > Bird on defense (well I am on board with that but let's not act like thats an agreed upon given by everyone) but I don't know that there's some massive difference there. And then Joe Johnson? poor defender in this game for sure, certainly no better than Reggie. And Elgin Baylor? A 6-5' player from the 60s? From what I've seen, he was a decent defender but no one is mistaking him with Scottie Pippen on defense. If Boise's perimeter defense is much stronger, I don't really see it.

mightybosstone
05-14-2014, 06:06 PM
Mookie is one of the greatest defensive PGs of all-time?

Frazier
West
Sloan
Buse
DJ
Mo
Alvin Robertson
Glove
Kidd
Paul

He's bubble for top 10 so let's cool it with the hyperbole.

Well, for starters, I would consider West and Sloan SGs way before I'd call them PGs. Sloan never even really played point as far as I know. And since defense is totally subjective historically and it's hard to produce defensive numbers for guards, you could probably make a strong case for Mookie being as good as several of the guys on this list. But my point still stands that Mookie is one of the better defensive point guards in NBA history as you struggled (and failed) to find 10 better. Also, you're totally underrating Bird's defense.

xxplayerxx23
05-14-2014, 06:15 PM
Joe Johnson has never been seen as a poor defender. Baylor from what I read is mixed defensively, some say he was great some say he played none very tough to know for sure since I was never there but he was really athletic so I'm assuming he wasn't below average. And our post/paint defense makes up for it :shrug:

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 06:15 PM
Quite frankly I think my team (Amherst) matches up very well against this team. We simply have too many scorers for them to be able to keep up.

First off, there is the obvious duo of Miller and Bird. Miller is being guarded by Joe Johnson - who even in his prime played very little defense. Bird is guarded by Baylor, who also is known more for his scoring abilities then his defense. Miller and Bird will be able to score all day against their defenders.

Mookie Blaylock, known as one of the better defenders at PG, is guarding their best player (Magic). He might not be able to stop him completely, but he would definitely be able to slow him down.

Our team is nicely balanced. We have four legitimate scorers; Miller on the outside, Nance in the mid-range/post game, Zo inside, and Bird everywhere. Boise could simply not keep up with the amount of points that Amherst would be able to score.


Boise says their gameplan is to "force Amherst's wings to the paint. I don't see how they could accomplish this. If they double team Bird or Miller to force them inside, it opens up the other on the outside, where they both were deadly from 3. Every member of their team is going to have to play 1 on 1 with my guys because my team is full of scorers.

I think your team is much better constructed from a team chemistry standpoint (as I've said before, I love how your team meshes) and I think thats partly why I had you ranked ahead of Boise in my rankings. But I think their talent has always been superior and I tend to think that would make a difference in a playoff series. But this series is WAY closer than anyone cares to admit (apparently). Also, I don't think you should even be facing Boise in the first round- tough matchup for a team that I thought was top 4 in their conference.

xxplayerxx23
05-14-2014, 06:16 PM
I've also read good things about Sam jones defense and luol deng we all know can defend. So if you count Solan for him our bench has to be counted as well

xxplayerxx23
05-14-2014, 06:18 PM
And to clarify I understand our perimeter defense isn't our strong point I was just pointing some
Things out.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 06:19 PM
Joe Johnson has never been seen as a poor defender. Baylor from what I read is mixed defensively, some say he was great some say he played none very tough to know for sure since I was never there but he was really athletic so I'm assuming he wasn't below average. And our post/paint defense makes up for it :shrug:

He's never seen as a good defender either. He's basically average. And in a game with all-time greats, that makes him a poor defender.

I never said it didn't. The topic of argument with KoB was specifically perimeter defense. I do think you've got an edge in post defense and your team is clearly more talented, hence why I voted for you guys. Still think from a roster construction standpoint (in terms of team chemistry), Amherst is better constructed. But when you have Magic, Baylor and McHale on the same team, not really much of an issue.

xxplayerxx23
05-14-2014, 06:22 PM
He's never seen as a good defender either. He's basically average. And in a game with all-time greats, that makes him a poor defender.

I never said it didn't. The topic of argument with KoB was specifically perimeter defense. I do think you've got an edge in post defense and your team is clearly more talented, hence why I voted for you guys. Still think from a roster construction standpoint (in terms of team chemistry), Amherst is better constructed. But when you have Magic, Baylor and McHale on the same team, not really much of an issue.

I agree with Amherst should of been ranked higher, just don't think joe is terrible defensively. I mean sure against a guy like MJ Kobe wade we probably would have to put more jones and deng on them but I think joe would
Do a decent job on a guy like miller.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 06:22 PM
I've also read good things about Sam jones defense and luol deng we all know can defend. So if you count Solan for him our bench has to be counted as well


And to clarify I understand our perimeter defense isn't our strong point I was just pointing some
Things out.

Yeah, I don't have any large issues with your perimeter defense considering the talent and I think Magic has proven to be good enough in that regard. But I was pointing out that your perimeter defense isn't really any better than Amherst's and KoB said they had the worst perimeter defense in the game which is what I initially took issue with.

xxplayerxx23
05-14-2014, 06:24 PM
Yeah, I don't have any large issues with your perimeter defense considering the talent and I think Magic has proven to be good enough in that regard. But I was pointing out that your perimeter defense isn't really any better than Amherst's and KoB said they had the worst perimeter defense in the game which is what I initially took issue with.

I get what you are saying. I'm sure we can go find some other teams with worse as well.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 06:28 PM
I agree with Amherst should of been ranked higher, just don't think joe is terrible defensively. I mean sure against a guy like MJ Kobe wade we probably would have to put more jones and deng on them but I think joe would
Do a decent job on a guy like miller.

Yeah, in this matchup, having Joe Johnson start doesn't really hurt you. But in later matchups it could (although- the MJ team missed the playoffs, the Wade team is losing to us and the Kobe team is also in our conference and unlikely to make it to the Finals, so pretty damn good luck there lol). I think you guys match up well with Amherst for sure with your flaws (like Johnson's D) being covered up by a good matchup for him. But I still feel like Amherst should be a higher seed. For example, I for sure think they are better than Des Plaines.

xxplayerxx23
05-14-2014, 06:39 PM
Yeah, in this matchup, having Joe Johnson start doesn't really hurt you. But in later matchups it could (although- the MJ team missed the playoffs, the Wade team is losing to us and the Kobe team is also in our conference and unlikely to make it to the Finals, so pretty damn good luck there lol). I think you guys match up well with Amherst for sure with your flaws (like Johnson's D) being covered up by a good matchup for him. But I still feel like Amherst should be a higher seed. For example, I for sure think they are better than Des Plaines.

Agreed. Was very surprised we were up against this talented of a 7 seed. Looking at our conference we really don't have an amazing two guard to worry about, and Sam jones luol deng could slow down some if need be. I'm really interested to see what team we face next assuming we hold on here.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-14-2014, 07:16 PM
Agreed. Was very surprised we were up against this talented of a 7 seed. Looking at our conference we really don't have an amazing two guard to worry about, and Sam jones luol deng could slow down some if need be. I'm really interested to see what team we face next assuming we hold on here.

Yeah, you guys are definitely escaping in that regard :laugh2: I mean talk about luck- no MJ in the playoffs and the other 2 SGs are in our conference with the higher seeded one losing at the moment.

Also, biggest ridiculousness of the seedings- Amherst is seeded 3 spots behind Des Plaines. Amherst wins that series in 5 games.

todu82
05-14-2014, 07:17 PM
Boise.

KnicksorBust
05-14-2014, 07:38 PM
Well, for starters, I would consider West and Sloan SGs way before I'd call them PGs. Sloan never even really played point as far as I know. And since defense is totally subjective historically and it's hard to produce defensive numbers for guards, you could probably make a strong case for Mookie being as good as several of the guys on this list. But my point still stands that Mookie is one of the better defensive point guards in NBA history as you struggled (and failed) to find 10 better. Also, you're totally underrating Bird's defense.

:laugh: I can tell that I "failed" by the fact that you basically conceded and changed your statement from "one of the greatest defensive PGs" to "one of the better defensive point guards." The doubt is seeping through the change from greatest to better.

I also have seen more of Bird than you and can tell you he was a help defender but had trouble with athletic players (Hi Elgin.) and was often switched onto secondary players.

xxplayerxx23
05-14-2014, 07:58 PM
Yeah, you guys are definitely escaping in that regard :laugh2: I mean talk about luck- no MJ in the playoffs and the other 2 SGs are in our conference with the higher seeded one losing at the moment.

Also, biggest ridiculousness of the seedings- Amherst is seeded 3 spots behind Des Plaines. Amherst wins that series in 5 games.

Lucky us :D. Sadly we have Kareem to worry about :laugh2:

mightybosstone
05-14-2014, 08:18 PM
:laugh: I can tell that I "failed" by the fact that you basically conceded and changed your statement from "one of the greatest defensive PGs" to "one of the better defensive point guards." The doubt is seeping through the change from greatest to better.
Nah. You couldn't even name 10 better defensive PGs, and half the guys on your list were combo guards rather than a true point like Mookie. And saying "one of the best" or "one of the better" is really just semantics. I didn't mean anything by that. It's okay to admit you're wrong, KoB. ;)


I also have seen more of Bird than you and can tell you he was a help defender but had trouble with athletic players (Hi Elgin.) and was often switched onto secondary players.
You're not that much older than me, so let's not pretend like you saw the guy play much. And even if he did struggle a bit against more athletic wings, he's still not going to get torched every night, and that doesn't justify the "one of the worst defensive perimeter teams in the game" comment. Plus, for every point Bird gives up to Baylor, Bird will get back on the other end and then some.

xnick5757
05-14-2014, 08:21 PM
I think your team is much better constructed from a team chemistry standpoint (as I've said before, I love how your team meshes) and I think thats partly why I had you ranked ahead of Boise in my rankings. But I think their talent has always been superior and I tend to think that would make a difference in a playoff series. But this series is WAY closer than anyone cares to admit (apparently). Also, I don't think you should even be facing Boise in the first round- tough matchup for a team that I thought was top 4 in their conference.

yeah... whoever ranked me 12th in the conference really ****** me over because I was only like 3 points away from being the 4th seed instead of the 7th. oh well

Matter.
05-15-2014, 07:06 AM
Thread will close tonight

Matter.
05-15-2014, 09:00 PM
Last chance to vote