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More-Than-Most
05-12-2014, 11:35 PM
He just flat out went next level like only he can do... 49 points on that shooting and 1 turnover... The efficiency is through the roof

MrfadeawayJB
05-12-2014, 11:40 PM
Had to impress Beyoncé

ghettosean
05-12-2014, 11:41 PM
I heard he plays with his dingy too... must there always be a thread when Lebron has a big scoring night... honestly!

cmellofan15
05-12-2014, 11:42 PM
pretty amazing game for LeBron, kinda disappointed with the rest of the team though. You get an effort like that from him and everyone else is running around with their thumbs up their ***

KniCks4LiFe
05-12-2014, 11:45 PM
I thought he got a couple of questionable FTs but end of the night he came to play.

Truth is. If 1/2 of what that so called PG for the Nets would have shown up, this is another L for Miami. The game in Miami and this one. But LeBron is basically playing 2 36+ yr. olds and 1 star sniper in Joe Johnson.

Bring The Heat
05-12-2014, 11:45 PM
Monster game for LeBron he was doing everything out there... Go Heat !

bucketss
05-12-2014, 11:47 PM
:worthy: :worthy:

Tony_Starks
05-12-2014, 11:51 PM
Greatest of all time.

cmellofan15
05-12-2014, 11:52 PM
I thought he got a couple of questionable FTs but end of the night he came to play.

Truth is. If 1/2 of what that so called PG for the Nets would have shown up, this is another L for Miami. The game in Miami and this one. But LeBron is basically playing 2 36+ yr. olds and 1 star sniper in Joe Johnson.

I wouldn't use that hypothetical b/c the same could be said about LeBron's supporting cast.

Avenged
05-12-2014, 11:53 PM
He's ze gratest

5ass
05-13-2014, 12:03 AM
Lebeast.

Htownballa1622
05-13-2014, 12:10 AM
STILL the best in the game. :win:

Gibby
05-13-2014, 12:47 AM
damn why did he miss the last FT.

FlashBolt
05-13-2014, 12:49 AM
Greatest of all time.
Clearly sarcasm.

I thought he got a couple of questionable FTs but end of the night he came to play.

Truth is. If 1/2 of what that so called PG for the Nets would have shown up, this is another L for Miami. The game in Miami and this one. But LeBron is basically playing 2 36+ yr. olds and 1 star sniper in Joe Johnson.

Truth is, if Wade and Co. played great, it would be a sweep for Miami.

P&GRealist
05-13-2014, 12:56 AM
Great performance no doubt.

Think Miami will pretty much wrap it up in 5, as will San Antonio and Pacers in 5.


Damn, besides OKC-LAC, this 2nd round has been a dud compared to round 1.

FlashBolt
05-13-2014, 01:14 AM
Greatest of all time.


Great performance no doubt.

Think Miami will pretty much wrap it up in 5, as will San Antonio and Pacers in 5.


Damn, besides OKC-LAC, this 2nd round has been a dud compared to round 1.

Indeed. That may have been the best first round ever. I don't think Spurs will wrap it up, though. Maybe in 6 but I think Portland will climb through.

b@llhog24
05-13-2014, 01:24 AM
Greatest of all time.

Agreed.

naps
05-13-2014, 05:11 AM
Greatest of all time.

No that would be the guy with 5 ringzzz

PurpleLynch
05-13-2014, 05:59 AM
Amazing performance by Lebron and even if KD was the MVP this year,James is still the best in the Nba. His teammates should wake up though(especially the bench unit).

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 02:15 PM
GOAT, great night for the Lebron Family

flea
05-13-2014, 02:16 PM
Still missed the FT that would have given him 50. LeChoke.

D-Leethal
05-13-2014, 02:23 PM
Go watch the double nickel game than go watch LeBron's 49 last night and take note of the difference in defense, beatings, physicality and than come back and fawn over LeBron's performance. He was gifted 15+ FTs and felt nothing but fingernail scratches on his shoulders that he makes sure to inspect everytime he goes to the line like its a stab wound. All of his shots are layups that include defenders running away and trying to avoid contact and subsequent arm-slap fouls, or its a recurring theme of fingernail grazing free throws being gifted. It was a tremendous game no doubt, but this generations "tremendous games" are so soft, I want to see LeBron take a beating and drop 50, not be gifted his 50 with no resistance or punishment. Than I'll be impressed.

If the refs are gonna give you that many ****ing free throws, they need to start letting the defense give some hard fouls. Watching the most physically intimidating player in the league get free throws for some of the "contact" he is getting FTs for is pathetic.

P&GRealist
05-13-2014, 02:25 PM
Go watch the double nickel game than go watch LeBron's 49 last night and take note of the difference in defense, beatings, physicality and than come back and fawn over LeBron's performance. He was gifted 15+ FTs and felt nothing but fingernail scratches on his shoulders that he makes sure to inspect everytime he goes to the line like its a stab wound. All of his shots are layups that include defenders running away and trying to avoid contact and fouls, or its a recurring theme of fingernail free throws. It was a tremendous game no doubt, but this generations "tremendous games" are so soft, I want to see LeBron take a beating and drop 50, not be gifted his 50 with no resistance or punishment. Than I'll be impressed.
Yesterday was a good performance, but it wasn't AWE-INSPIRING like when he dropped 48 on Detroit back in 2007.

D-Leethal
05-13-2014, 02:26 PM
Yesterday was a good performance, but it wasn't AWE-INSPIRING like when he dropped 48 on Detroit back in 2007.

Agreed. Last night was "spread the floor, let LeBron drive and either face no resistance or get two FTs".

I don't blame LeBron, I blame the league. LeBron is just playing the game thats in front of him.

49ersLALSFGiant
05-13-2014, 02:32 PM
Still missed the FT that would have given him 50. LeChoke.

+1 lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 02:38 PM
He just flat out went next level like only he can do... 49 points on that shooting and 1 turnover... The efficiency is through the roof

Vs the pathetic old Nets, let me know when he does this vs a real team.

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 02:43 PM
Nets are a top 10 defense and had the best record in the east post all star break. I thought they were gonna give the Heat trouble and had their number? Funny how everyone changes their tune as soon as Lebron shoves his royal dong up their ***.

D-Leethal
05-13-2014, 02:48 PM
Nets are a top 10 defense and had the best record in the east post all star break. I thought they were gonna give the Heat trouble and had their number? Funny how everyone changes their tune as soon as Lebron shoves his royal dong up their ***.

I don't think anyone on these forums actually thought the Nets were gonna give the Heat trouble.

Do you really respect the amount of times he was given FTs for nothing more than a slap on the shoulder? I wanna see LeBron get pounded, get back up and drop 50 in anger. Not dropping 50 with zero physical resistance and boatloads of referee support, let alone embellishing these shoulder slaps like he is some warrior truly taking a beating every time he goes to the FT line. How about some toil? WTF ever happened to that? Are you really "proud" of what you saw yesterday? I'm closer to disgusted that someone is actually able to drop 50 the way he did - shoulder slap free throws and uncontested layups.

Tony_Starks
05-13-2014, 02:51 PM
Agreed. Last night was "spread the floor, let LeBron drive and either face no resistance or get two FTs".

I don't blame LeBron, I blame the league. LeBron is just playing the game thats in front of him.

The ironic part is Bosh takes so much criticism for not scoring and rebounding as much when the sole reason he's relegated to the 3 point line is to draw out the other big so the floor is wide open for Lebron to freight train to the basket....

D-Leethal
05-13-2014, 02:52 PM
The ironic part is Bosh takes so much criticism for not scoring and rebounding as much when the sole reason he's relegated to the 3 point line is to draw out the other big so the floor is wide open for Lebron to freight train to the basket....

LeBron has mastered the way to dominate an NBA game in 2014, thats for sure. Its a shame they don't need to battle through physical adversity anymore to get there.

cmellofan15
05-13-2014, 02:55 PM
I don't think anyone on these forums actually thought the Nets were gonna give the Heat trouble.

maybe you didn't, but there were plenty of people who were rallying around the Nets towards the end of the season and the first round because they wanted to see a Heat v. Nets matchup. I vividly remember the thread about the Heat having the easiest road to the finals because it was looking like the Pacers and Nets were going to have first round exits.

mngopher35
05-13-2014, 02:57 PM
Go watch the double nickel game than go watch LeBron's 49 last night and take note of the difference in defense, beatings, physicality and than come back and fawn over LeBron's performance. He was gifted 15+ FTs and felt nothing but fingernail scratches on his shoulders that he makes sure to inspect everytime he goes to the line like its a stab wound. All of his shots are layups that include defenders running away and trying to avoid contact and subsequent arm-slap fouls, or its a recurring theme of fingernail grazing free throws being gifted. It was a tremendous game no doubt, but this generations "tremendous games" are so soft, I want to see LeBron take a beating and drop 50, not be gifted his 50 with no resistance or punishment. Than I'll be impressed.

If the refs are gonna give you that many ****ing free throws, they need to start letting the defense give some hard fouls. Watching the most physically intimidating player in the league get free throws for some of the "contact" he is getting FTs for is pathetic.

Here is a video of his points since I can't find/upload the whole video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3wGUoXMacs

I suggest people watch this and explain outside of the ewing foul which of these was so hard? I see hand checking and tons of 1v1 with no help defense (not allowed at the time) with some weak fouls thrown in there as well. People act as if the league is so much worse yet it is missing a few big hits, some extra contact, and is a much tougher TEAM defensive game.

This isn't to discredit anything in the past but lets not act as if superstars haven't always gotten calls. You mention to notice the difference in defensive beatings which I think is certainly there but nothing like you make it sound. There were definitely games in the past that had them but you mentioned this one specifically. You also fail to mention how 1v1 it is and how much improved team defense is making it harder as a whole. Take each for what it is. This league there is no hand checking and the game is a bit less physical but outside of a couple hits a game it isn't nearly as drastic. To combat that defenses are allowed to do much more than in the past, no more illegal defense calls etc.

Edit: I might have biases myself as this was when I first started watching basketball and didn't fully understand or get this into it until the 2000's. I have watched tons of film from the 80's on though and imo people exaggerate non stop about how difficult players had it back then. If thats the case then what about what Wilt went through before? People never mention that, probably because it isn't "their era". The game changes and players adjust. You are making it sound much different and more difficult than it was compared to now.

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 02:58 PM
Lebron was attacking and getting to the basket at will. Should the refs just stop doing there jobs and allow the Nets to foul him because he's too good?

D-Leethal
05-13-2014, 03:02 PM
Lebron was attacking and getting to the basket at will. Should the refs just stop doing there jobs and allow the Nets to foul him because he's too good?

No, but the league shouldn't have developed to the point where there is too much fear of getting suspended for a playoff game that you cannot throw a flagrant at someone to dissuade them from marching towards the rim without any resistance on the perimeter (no handchecking) OR in the paint (via hard fouls now almost always deemed flagrant).

LeBron does not like getting hit, that should be how teams gear up to beat him.

D-Leethal
05-13-2014, 03:05 PM
Here is a video of his points since I can't find/upload the whole video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3wGUoXMacs

I suggest people watch this and explain outside of the ewing foul which of these was so hard? I see hand checking and tons of 1v1 with no help defense (not allowed at the time) with some weak fouls thrown in there as well. People act as if the league is so much worse yet it is missing a few big hits, some extra contact, and is a much tougher TEAM defensive game.

This isn't to discredit anything in the past but lets not act as if superstars haven't always gotten calls. You mention to notice the difference in defensive beatings which I think is certainly there but nothing like you make it sound. There were definitely games in the past that had them but you mentioned this one specifically. You also fail to mention how 1v1 it is and how much improved team defense is making it harder as a whole. Take each for what it is. This league there is no hand checking and the game is a bit less physical but outside of a couple hits a game it isn't nearly as drastic. To combat that defenses are allowed to do much more than in the past, no more illegal defense calls etc.

I picked a legendary 50 point game off the top of my head. If it makes you feel better you can choose to use a playoff game from the late 80s where the Pistons implemented "The Jordan Rules" and compare that way.

Either way, back in the day if the way to stop the best player on the planet was to give him a beating and make him feel every foul, thats what you did. I don't think LeBron even felt half the fouls he was given last night. Players were able to throw around Iverson like a ragdoll everytime he drove the lane and now we have a 6'8 260lb freight train who is getting gifted FTs for less contact I've ever seen a big man get.

And a couple hits goes a long way. Thats all I ask for to be honest. A couple hits is the domino that leads to less free reign in the paint, less desire to continue bumrushing towards the big guys in side, getting baited into more jump shots and overall getting thrown off your game. Thats how superstars were deterred back in the day, now there is no deterrent whatsoever.

mngopher35
05-13-2014, 03:07 PM
I picked a legendary 50 point game off the top of my head. If it makes you feel better you can choose to use a playoff game from the late 80s where the Pistons implemented "The Jordan Rules" and compare that way.

Either way, back in the day if the way to stop the best player on the planet was to give him a beating and make him feel every foul, thats what you did. I don't think LeBron even felt half the fouls he was given last night. Players were able to throw around Iverson like a ragdoll everytime he drove the lane and now we have a 6'8 260lb freight train who is getting gifted FTs for less contact I've ever seen a big man get.

Ya all those fouls on jordan must have really hurt lol. I agree that there is a difference but it isn't nearly as drastic as you are making it seem, especially by the mid/late 90's

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 03:18 PM
Go watch the double nickel game than go watch LeBron's 49 last night and take note of the difference in defense, beatings, physicality and than come back and fawn over LeBron's performance. He was gifted 15+ FTs and felt nothing but fingernail scratches on his shoulders that he makes sure to inspect everytime he goes to the line like its a stab wound. All of his shots are layups that include defenders running away and trying to avoid contact and subsequent arm-slap fouls, or its a recurring theme of fingernail grazing free throws being gifted. It was a tremendous game no doubt, but this generations "tremendous games" are so soft, I want to see LeBron take a beating and drop 50, not be gifted his 50 with no resistance or punishment. Than I'll be impressed.

If the refs are gonna give you that many ****ing free throws, they need to start letting the defense give some hard fouls. Watching the most physically intimidating player in the league get free throws for some of the "contact" he is getting FTs for is pathetic.

You are severely overrating the defense of the 90's. Just watched Jordan's 55 point game. I saw him Iso-ing against small 6' 2" guards with absolutely no help defense. I saw 1, maybe 2 hard fouls. Jordan also shot 12 FTs that game, not that much more than Lebron considering Jordan shot a lot more midrange jumpers.

Bruno
05-13-2014, 03:26 PM
not much you can do about 10/11 at the basket.

simply put, teams with no legitimate center should and will be absolutely obliterated by a post 2011 LBJ lead squad. LBJ will obliterate your team now that he's become a master in the post if you don't have the post bodies to challenge him and his versatility.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 03:38 PM
Nets are a top 10 defense and had the best record in the east post all star break. I thought they were gonna give the Heat trouble and had their number? Funny how everyone changes their tune as soon as Lebron shoves his royal dong up their ***.

I don't think anyone on these forums actually thought the Nets were gonna give the Heat trouble.

Do you really respect the amount of times he was given FTs for nothing more than a slap on the shoulder? I wanna see LeBron get pounded, get back up and drop 50 in anger. Not dropping 50 with zero physical resistance and boatloads of referee support, let alone embellishing these shoulder slaps like he is some warrior truly taking a beating every time he goes to the FT line. How about some toil? WTF ever happened to that? Are you really "proud" of what you saw yesterday? I'm closer to disgusted that someone is actually able to drop 50 the way he did - shoulder slap free throws and uncontested layups.
Post of the thread.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 03:42 PM
I picked a legendary 50 point game off the top of my head. If it makes you feel better you can choose to use a playoff game from the late 80s where the Pistons implemented "The Jordan Rules" and compare that way.

Either way, back in the day if the way to stop the best player on the planet was to give him a beating and make him feel every foul, thats what you did. I don't think LeBron even felt half the fouls he was given last night. Players were able to throw around Iverson like a ragdoll everytime he drove the lane and now we have a 6'8 260lb freight train who is getting gifted FTs for less contact I've ever seen a big man get.

Ya all those fouls on jordan must have really hurt lol. I agree that there is a difference but it isn't nearly as drastic as you are making it seem, especially by the mid/late 90's

Basketball is kids play compared to the old days.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 03:46 PM
Post of the thread.

Now realize it applies to Kobe as well. what's that? Its not the best post anymore? Get outta here troll.

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 03:50 PM
Delusional. That is some revisionist history. All you watch is cherry picked highlights showing how rough the NBA was. Jordan was arguably the most babied player by the refs in NBA history. Defense was stupidly simple then too. He was free to just ISO midget guards all game long

koreancabbage
05-13-2014, 03:50 PM
Basketball is kids play compared to the old days.

because the rule changes. not the players.

doesn't mean they would play any other way if the rules were still the same.

is the game "softer" nowadays? ya, because the rules have changed.

mngopher35
05-13-2014, 03:56 PM
Basketball is kids play compared to the old days.

It has happened over time with rule changes. Like I said what would Wilt fans say about the 90's?

Look while there is less physical play due to hand checking rules things always get over emphasized on this site imo. Look at the video and you will see a few weak calls even then. The one "hard foul" would be just that in todays game. Yes the rule changes have made it less physical overall but have also improved the concept of team defense making things harder mentally on that end (no 1v1 with no help defense on a 6'2 player over and over again). Yes it can be annoying to watch some of the touch fouls but superstars have been getting that treatment for years (at least since MJ).

FlashBolt
05-13-2014, 04:29 PM
Let's be honest. Most of PSD are filled with people who never watched the games back then and would handpick Youtube highlights and think that every game was a battle. Look at Wilt's 100 pt game, people said it was downright dirty. Uhm, most of those defenders didn't even jump to guard Wilt's shots. Stop using this agenda that basketball was better and tougher back then. The game is more advanced now than ever. Players are better, quicker, stronger, and smarter. More basketball plays are being developed - which is why centers aren't as dominant now as they were previously. The rules often dictate how the game is played. +, you guys are seriously saying LeBron is making it easy? Jordan made it easy because he was great. Shaq physically overpowered players and that made him great. Tim Duncan fundamentally destroyed his opponents and he's great. LeBron is one of those players and many of you just can't stop hating. It's LeBron's fault that he's born a physical beast with a great mind for basketball? Give a break. He's going to end up going as one of the all time greats and all you guys do is whine and whine. Oh, LeBron has 49, must've been the refs. Meanwhile, Kobe has 81 and people never say a thing about that.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 04:32 PM
Post of the thread.

Now realize it applies to Kobe as well. what's that? Its not the best post anymore? Get outta here troll.

Yeah, i don't think so buddy. Kobe played in the early 2000's. Which was as competitive and tough as the league has ever been. We'll at least for the west. Kobe has played against probably about ten teams better than any team Lebron has ever faced in his career.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 04:34 PM
Delusional. That is some revisionist history. All you watch is cherry picked highlights showing how rough the NBA was. Jordan was arguably the most babied player by the refs in NBA history. Defense was stupidly simple then too. He was free to just ISO midget guards all game long

Funny how all the Lebron fans talk about Jordan when most of you never even seen a live game in his era.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 04:35 PM
I don't think anyone on these forums actually thought the Nets were gonna give the Heat trouble.

Do you really respect the amount of times he was given FTs for nothing more than a slap on the shoulder? I wanna see LeBron get pounded, get back up and drop 50 in anger. Not dropping 50 with zero physical resistance and boatloads of referee support, let alone embellishing these shoulder slaps like he is some warrior truly taking a beating every time he goes to the FT line. How about some toil? WTF ever happened to that? Are you really "proud" of what you saw yesterday? I'm closer to disgusted that someone is actually able to drop 50 the way he did - shoulder slap free throws and uncontested layups.

I really dont understand how people on this board ignore these points. I was thinking the same thing. Lebron does what he has to do, but nothing is ever really a fight due to the level of competition. Not his fault I understand, but its a variable. LMA's game was more impressive.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 04:35 PM
Basketball is kids play compared to the old days.

because the rule changes. not the players.

doesn't mean they would play any other way if the rules were still the same.

is the game "softer" nowadays? ya, because the rules have changed.

The players are softer too, Lebron got shoved to the ground and did nothing about it. Kobe or Jordan would never let someone do that to then without doing something about it.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 04:37 PM
Yeah, i don't think so buddy. live played in the early 2000's. Which was as competitive and tough as the league has ever been. We'll at least for the west. Kobe has played against probably about ten teams better than any team Lebron has ever faced in his career.

So the cutoff for when the league started to be "soft" is basically after Kobe started but right before James. That fits with your agenda perfectly.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 04:42 PM
Now realize it applies to Kobe as well. what's that? Its not the best post anymore? Get outta here troll.

Get outta here. Show me where Kobe ran uncontrollably to the hole and got ticky tack fouls called on him...

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 04:44 PM
Yeah, i don't think so buddy. live played in the early 2000's. Which was as competitive and tough as the league has ever been. We'll at least for the west. Kobe has played against probably about ten teams better than any team Lebron has ever faced in his career.

So the cutoff for when the league started to be "soft" is basically after Kobe started but right before James. That fits with your agenda perfectly.

It's just fact, name me one team Lebron has ever faced that is better than the kings. I'll wait, and that's just one team.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 04:44 PM
So the cutoff for when the league started to be "soft" is basically after Kobe started but right before James. That fits with your agenda perfectly.

Your're an obvious troll bro. We get it, Lebron is your idol. Fine. But if you dont see that the league is ten times more soft than it was in the late 90's even, then you have a serious problem. And I'll save you time in your response to me by telling you to not bother to respond. You Lebron worshipers all come back with the same Kobephille **** and condecending attitude.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 04:45 PM
Get outta here. Show me where Kobe ran uncontrollably to the hole and got ticky tack fouls called on him...

What's your explanation for why Kobe wouldn't benefit from the same rules James does.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 04:46 PM
What's your explanation for why Kobe wouldn't benefit from the same rules James does.

Because Kobe plays like a man.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 04:47 PM
It's just fact, name me one team Lebron has ever faced that is better than the kings. I'll wait, and that's just one team.

What does that have to do with the discussion? I'm asking you why the rules that favor Lebron in this era haven't applied to Kobe as well.

Please, no sidetracking the discussion. No bs. Just an answer.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 04:48 PM
Your're an obvious troll bro. We get it, Lebron is your idol. Fine. But if you dont see that the league is ten times more soft than it was in the late 90's even, then you have a serious problem. And I'll save you time in your response to me by telling you to not bother to respond. You Lebron worshipers all come back with the same Kobephille **** and condecending attitude.

That's not me. But Kobe did not play much in the 90's. I assume as a fan you'd know that.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 04:50 PM
Because Kobe plays like a man.

That's not an explanation. Its the refs that determine the foul calls not the players.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 04:53 PM
That's not me. But Kobe did not play much in the 90's. I assume as a fan you'd know that.

lmao. What? I think in my post I CLEARLY said "Late 90's".Why must you guys argue everything when it comes to Kobe but want people to respect everything about Lebron?

koreancabbage
05-13-2014, 04:56 PM
The players are softer too, Lebron got shoved to the ground and did nothing about it. Kobe or Jordan would never let someone do that to then without doing something about it.

Thats because any movement towards the opposing player would result almost in a tech. and plus, if someone is gonna push you, you're gonna fall like you fell from mount everest - i mean two can play this game nowadays - its not about being soft but being able to make it look like the victim on everything

back in the day, you can get away with anything. probably they changed the rules because Jordan *****ed about being hit all the time. they only listen to their stars.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 04:58 PM
What does that have to do with the discussion? I'm asking you why the rules that favor Lebron in this era haven't applied to Kobe as well.

Please, no sidetracking the discussion. No bs. Just an answer.

Man, they play different styles of basketball. That was MY point. Do you expect Chris Paul to run through the lane like a frieght train head first, pushing off with his off elbow like Lebron does to get to the free throw line? No. Thats the answer as to why Kobe doesnt do it. Kobe can rely a lot more on his perimeter game than Lebron. And some people just dont play like that. Its worked fine for Kobe being that he has 5 rings, 2 finals MVP's, and 3rd in scoring all time right?

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 05:11 PM
Because Kobe plays like a man.

http://far-left.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/kobepunched.gif
Punked by Chris Childs

naps
05-13-2014, 05:16 PM
Go watch the double nickel game than go watch LeBron's 49 last night and take note of the difference in defense, beatings, physicality and than come back and fawn over LeBron's performance. He was gifted 15+ FTs and felt nothing but fingernail scratches on his shoulders that he makes sure to inspect everytime he goes to the line like its a stab wound. All of his shots are layups that include defenders running away and trying to avoid contact and subsequent arm-slap fouls, or its a recurring theme of fingernail grazing free throws being gifted. It was a tremendous game no doubt, but this generations "tremendous games" are so soft, I want to see LeBron take a beating and drop 50, not be gifted his 50 with no resistance or punishment. Than I'll be impressed.

If the refs are gonna give you that many ****ing free throws, they need to start letting the defense give some hard fouls. Watching the most physically intimidating player in the league get free throws for some of the "contact" he is getting FTs for is pathetic.

He mad

SwatTeam
05-13-2014, 05:17 PM
Kobe Bryant plays like a man . . . Juwanna Mann.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 05:17 PM
It's just fact, name me one team Lebron has ever faced that is better than the kings. I'll wait, and that's just one team.

What does that have to do with the discussion? I'm asking you why the rules that favor Lebron in this era haven't applied to Kobe as well.

Please, no sidetracking the discussion. No bs. Just an answer.

Because the rules weren't called the same. The early 00 players got away with a lot more than they do now. You can't even lay a finger on players nowadays. Now answer my question, what is he best team Lebron has ever faced, and the compare them to the teams Kobe has had to overcome.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 05:18 PM
http://far-left.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/kobepunched.gif
Punked by Chris Childs

This is why I dont take the Kobe hate serious and its more trolling than anything. People bring up things that have nothing to do with basketball when talking about Kobe. Listen "Lebronkid" or whatever your Lebron loving name is. I dont care if you have a video of kobe involved in a circle jerk in Frisco. As long as he helped lead my team to 5 tittles (Which he did), it means nothing to me. Your're obviously 15 years old

SwatTeam
05-13-2014, 05:20 PM
For real though, look at this clip of early Kobe getting killed by the defense unlike Lebron nowadays.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ohbr90cKDc

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 05:20 PM
The players are softer too, Lebron got shoved to the ground and did nothing about it. Kobe or Jordan would never let someone do that to then without doing something about it.

Thats because any movement towards the opposing player would result almost in a tech. and plus, if someone is gonna push you, you're gonna fall like you fell from mount everest - i mean two can play this game nowadays - its not about being soft but being able to make it look like the victim on everything

back in the day, you can get away with anything. probably they changed the rules because Jordan *****ed about being hit all the time. they only listen to their stars.

I've never seen anything from Lebron that's screams "tough". Actually it's quite the opposite, he gets punked around and flops like a female.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 05:22 PM
lmao. What? I think in my post I CLEARLY said "Late 90's".Why must you guys argue everything when it comes to Kobe but want people to respect everything about Lebron?

I know what you said. Since the vast majority of Kobe's career did not occur in the 90's period, I'm asking what the relevance of that statement is. You responded to my post saying that Lebron has played in the same NBA that Kobe had a cakewalk through ..

naps
05-13-2014, 05:23 PM
So LeBron is hated because he dropped 49 in a playoff game on the road? Why are kobephiles so insecure? Kobe is nowhere near the player LeBron. Here is a piece of advise: Go compare him with a T-Mac. Only difference is T-Mac couldn't stay healthy and did not force his way to LA on draft night and was not gifted the most dominant player of all time to drag him for 8 years. Pretty sure any decent wing could win more than 3 with a prime Shaq in 8 years.

Jamiecballer
05-13-2014, 05:26 PM
Man, they play different styles of basketball. That was MY point. Do you expect Chris Paul to run through the lane like a frieght train head first, pushing off with his off elbow like Lebron does to get to the free throw line? No. Thats the answer as to why Kobe doesnt do it. Kobe can rely a lot more on his perimeter game than Lebron. And some people just dont play like that. Its worked fine for Kobe being that he has 5 rings, 2 finals MVP's, and 3rd in scoring all time right?

It sounds like your biggest gripe is that Lebron plays to his strengths. If Kobe was completely unstoppable going to the basket he'd do it too. It would be stupid not to.

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 05:26 PM
So LeBron is hated because he dropped 49 in a playoff game on the road? Why are kobephiles so insecure? Kobe is nowhere near the player LeBron. Here is a piece of advise: Go compare him with a T-Mac. Only difference is T-Mac couldn't stay healthy and did not force his way to LA on draft night and was not gifted the most dominant player of all time to drag him for 8 years. Pretty sure any decent wing could win more than 3 with a prime Shaq in 8 years.
They are insecure because Lebron is about to pass Kobe in Finals MVPs and has 4 MVPs compared to Kobe's 1. Lebron is 29 and their boy is done.

nickdymez
05-13-2014, 05:47 PM
It sounds like your biggest gripe is that Lebron plays to his strengths. If Kobe was completely unstoppable going to the basket he'd do it too. It would be stupid not to.

Dawg. Im not saying that he shouldnt. He's supposed to. Im saying that it helps him out incredibly the way the game is called nowadays and I take that into consideration when evaluating him. Thats all

Tony_Starks
05-13-2014, 06:08 PM
So LeBron is hated because he dropped 49 in a playoff game on the road? Why are kobephiles so insecure? Kobe is nowhere near the player LeBron. Here is a piece of advise: Go compare him with a T-Mac. Only difference is T-Mac couldn't stay healthy and did not force his way to LA on draft night and was not gifted the most dominant player of all time to drag him for 8 years. Pretty sure any decent wing could win more than 3 with a prime Shaq in 8 years.

Nothing for nothing but can you Kobe haters at least get some new material? This old fable is corny and about as believable as strippers that work their way through med school.

mngopher35
05-13-2014, 06:19 PM
Classic.

My point was that over time the rules have changed and basically every era has had to deal with it. Even in the video posted there were examples of ticky tack fouls for MJ. To claim that the same didn't happen to a star like Kobe (who plays with much more similar rules than now to in the past) is ridiculous. Kobe's game is less about attacking the basket which usually draws more fouls. With that Lebron hasn't gotten drastically more FT's throughout his career than Kobe. People want to claim he gets the softest fouls ever but are you even watching the Thunder games this year?

The league has been giving superstar calls for years. This isn't some Kobe vs. Lebron thing again, especially since they played and won with very similar rules. People with agendas might claim some major difference, but that is about it.

TheLebronFamily
05-13-2014, 06:20 PM
Lebron is alot better than Korbi has ever been. Sorry

P&GRealist
05-13-2014, 06:26 PM
Lebron is alot better than Korbi has ever been. Sorry

derp dee derp, uz banned!!!! :speechless:

ATX
05-13-2014, 07:10 PM
Lmao, of course Illusionist had to come in here and whine about James going for 49 on insane efficiency on the road in a pivotal playoff game. It's just too funny…Always an excuse. ALWAYS. His utter BS has become laughable. :laugh2:

FlashBolt
05-13-2014, 07:12 PM
I'll get Illusionist banned just like I got his boyfriend Amo1ster banned.

Tony_Starks
05-13-2014, 07:29 PM
Damn that Lebron groupie got banned already? Man that sucks, he was kinda cool.

If your gonna be a Lebron Stan at least be a fully committed one!

flea
05-13-2014, 07:48 PM
Only Kobephiles are allowed to roam free in the NBA forum.

PurpleLynch
05-13-2014, 07:53 PM
For real though, look at this clip of early Kobe getting killed by the defense unlike Lebron nowadays.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ohbr90cKDc

Oh Rick,it's been awhile...

ghettosean
05-13-2014, 08:07 PM
Let's be honest. Most of PSD are filled with people who never watched the games back then and would handpick Youtube highlights and think that every game was a battle. Look at Wilt's 100 pt game, people said it was downright dirty. Uhm, most of those defenders didn't even jump to guard Wilt's shots. Stop using this agenda that basketball was better and tougher back then. The game is more advanced now than ever. Players are better, quicker, stronger, and smarter. More basketball plays are being developed - which is why centers aren't as dominant now as they were previously. The rules often dictate how the game is played. +, you guys are seriously saying LeBron is making it easy? Jordan made it easy because he was great. Shaq physically overpowered players and that made him great. Tim Duncan fundamentally destroyed his opponents and he's great. LeBron is one of those players and many of you just can't stop hating. It's LeBron's fault that he's born a physical beast with a great mind for basketball? Give a break. He's going to end up going as one of the all time greats and all you guys do is whine and whine. Oh, LeBron has 49, must've been the refs. Meanwhile, Kobe has 81 and people never say a thing about that.

Everytime your physical beast faces contact he whines which is one of the main reasons he's hated. He's a 260 pound WHINING freak of nature who is WEAK minded when it starts to get the least bit physical.

I think everyone on this forum is on board with the concept that 90's era and lower was more physical than now to what degree everyone has there opinion but we all agree it was MORE physical than now. Well let's see what lebron says when faced with physical play in a LESS PHYSICAL ERA.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=9106885&src=desktop




"Let me calculate my thoughts real fast before I say (what I want to say)," James said. "I believe and I know that a lot of my fouls are not basketball plays. First of all, Kirk Hinrich in the first quarter basically grabbed me with two hands and brought me to the ground. The last one, Taj Gibson was able to collar me around my shoulder and bring me to the ground. Those are not defensive ... those are not basketball plays."



I saw the game and it wasn't even close to what he's saying it's just... PATHETIC... For... what did you call him a physical beast.

Sounds more like a big huge super puss.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 08:20 PM
I'll get Illusionist banned just like I got his boyfriend Amo1ster banned.

Lol what does that say about you? I swear this forum is filled with teenagers .

FlashBolt
05-13-2014, 08:40 PM
Greatest of all time.


Lol what does that say about you? I swear this forum is filled with teenagers .

Ironic, considering you act like a teenager. It just says that you're annoying and a bad poster.

ATX
05-13-2014, 08:52 PM
Ironic, considering you act like a teenager. It just says that you're annoying and a bad poster.

Understatement of all understatements

IKnowHoops
05-13-2014, 08:55 PM
I picked a legendary 50 point game off the top of my head. If it makes you feel better you can choose to use a playoff game from the late 80s where the Pistons implemented "The Jordan Rules" and compare that way.

Either way, back in the day if the way to stop the best player on the planet was to give him a beating and make him feel every foul, thats what you did. I don't think LeBron even felt half the fouls he was given last night. Players were able to throw around Iverson like a ragdoll everytime he drove the lane and now we have a 6'8 260lb freight train who is getting gifted FTs for less contact I've ever seen a big man get.

And a couple hits goes a long way. Thats all I ask for to be honest. A couple hits is the domino that leads to less free reign in the paint, less desire to continue bumrushing towards the big guys in side, getting baited into more jump shots and overall getting thrown off your game. Thats how superstars were deterred back in the day, now there is no deterrent whatsoever.

How many times was karl malone thrown to the ground? Iverson is a buck fitty soaking wet. Jordan was like 180-190 as a rookie. Lebron isnt getting thrown to the ground for the same reason malone didnt get thrown to the ground...they cant because its mans game when he goes to the hole. Someone would have to literally ray lewis him to take him down. People now or then couldnt manhandle him or throw him to the ground. Rodman would get pushed out of the wat easily. Outside of shaq and malone, there is nobody in the last 30 years who could deal with bron physically. Then you add the speed and athletic ability at his side, and there is nobody in the history of the league that could check lebron physically. Thats what makes him so unstoppable. Its not that there not trying to be physical, its that he is too strong for that. He already took an elbow to the throat from a 7 footer and that got still got knocked back. That same exact play against jordan would of put mike on his back. Iverson would of done a summersalt.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-13-2014, 09:00 PM
Ironic, considering you act like a teenager. It just says that you're annoying and a bad poster.

Understatement of all understatements Do you ever stop crying about me?

IKnowHoops
05-13-2014, 09:08 PM
The players are softer too, Lebron got shoved to the ground and did nothing about it. Kobe or Jordan would never let someone do that to then without doing something about it.

You must of missed the game where Chris childs trick slapped him.

NBA_Starter
05-13-2014, 09:14 PM
Nice troll post Yosef!

Seriously though someone called this at the end of the last game, something about the look in LeBron's eye, they were right!

ATX
05-13-2014, 09:39 PM
Do you ever stop crying about me?

Crying, no. laughing my *** off at the absurdity of your posts? Never.

ghettosean
05-13-2014, 09:51 PM
How many times was karl malone thrown to the ground? Iverson is a buck fitty soaking wet. Jordan was like 180-190 as a rookie. Lebron isnt getting thrown to the ground for the same reason malone didnt get thrown to the ground...they cant because its mans game when he goes to the hole. Someone would have to literally ray lewis him to take him down. People now or then couldnt manhandle him or throw him to the ground. Rodman would get pushed out of the wat easily. Outside of shaq and malone, there is nobody in the last 30 years who could deal with bron physically. Then you add the speed and athletic ability at his side, and there is nobody in the history of the league that could check lebron physically. Thats what makes him so unstoppable. Its not that there not trying to be physical, its that he is too strong for that. He already took an elbow to the throat from a 7 footer and that got still got knocked back. That same exact play against jordan would of put mike on his back. Iverson would of done a summersalt.


Did you see my last post it's about 5 or 6 back about Lebron complaining about little skinny Kirk Hinrich taking him down to the ground. He cries over everything so I don't want to hear this unstoppable garbage if he were to play in a more physical era.

No one in the history of the game could check Lebron :rolleyes: B**ch please!!!

cmellofan15
05-13-2014, 10:15 PM
Wait so we're complaining about Lebron using his size and speed tot his advantage or are we complaining because it works?

FlashBolt
05-13-2014, 10:48 PM
Greatest of all time.


Wait so we're complaining about Lebron using his size and speed tot his advantage or are we complaining because it works?

They're complaining because Kobe doesn't have what LeBron has.

Chronz
05-14-2014, 12:08 AM
I'll get Illusionist banned just like I got his boyfriend Amo1ster banned.

What did you do?

Chronz
05-14-2014, 12:17 AM
I havent read through the entire thread yet but can someone fill me in on the era translation argument?

I hope we can all agree, the 90's were more physical than today, just like the 80's were easier to play in than today, and then we realize that players that played in the 80's and into the 90's, had little if any slippage in play despite the phsyical/aesthetic differences, so I cant help but laugh when people act like its a dramatically influential difference in difficulty/phsyicality. Every era has its strengths and weaknesses, you're downright foolish if you think any great player wouldnt adapt accordingly, Bron would eat up the inferior zones and athletes the same way hes eaten up the non-HC era. Whatever you think would happen to Bron offensively, just imaging what he could do on the other end. His defense would be better in that era.

Chronz
05-14-2014, 12:36 AM
Your're an obvious troll bro. We get it, Lebron is your idol. Fine. But if you dont see that the league is ten times more soft than it was in the late 90's even, then you have a serious problem. And I'll save you time in your response to me by telling you to not bother to respond. You Lebron worshipers all come back with the same Kobephille **** and condecending attitude.

lol what a gem
So you give him a condescending response and then tell him not to bother responding because he will only stoop so low too? What he said was perfectly objective, what you responded with was typical kobephile drivel

Chronz
05-14-2014, 12:40 AM
Here is a video of his points since I can't find/upload the whole video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3wGUoXMacs

I suggest people watch this and explain outside of the ewing foul which of these was so hard? I see hand checking and tons of 1v1 with no help defense (not allowed at the time) with some weak fouls thrown in there as well. People act as if the league is so much worse yet it is missing a few big hits, some extra contact, and is a much tougher TEAM defensive game.

This isn't to discredit anything in the past but lets not act as if superstars haven't always gotten calls. You mention to notice the difference in defensive beatings which I think is certainly there but nothing like you make it sound. There were definitely games in the past that had them but you mentioned this one specifically. You also fail to mention how 1v1 it is and how much improved team defense is making it harder as a whole. Take each for what it is. This league there is no hand checking and the game is a bit less physical but outside of a couple hits a game it isn't nearly as drastic. To combat that defenses are allowed to do much more than in the past, no more illegal defense calls etc.

Edit: I might have biases myself as this was when I first started watching basketball and didn't fully understand or get this into it until the 2000's. I have watched tons of film from the 80's on though and imo people exaggerate non stop about how difficult players had it back then. If thats the case then what about what Wilt went through before? People never mention that, probably because it isn't "their era". The game changes and players adjust. You are making it sound much different and more difficult than it was compared to now.

I remembered that game so fondly, but right now, I had to stop watching it when the highlight showed an illegal defense call. It wasn't all that egregious either, just typical shading we see on every possession today. Combined with inferior athletes and simplistic clear outs, its easy to see why you could argue defenses are more sophisticated today. Imagine being unable to build a wall at the rim for a hulking player and trying to limit someone with his passing IQ with traps. When MJ had the absolute worst series of his playoff career, it was with Phil Jackson *****ing about illegal zones, same thing happened with Hakeem. Dont let anyone tell you defense was better in the olden days simply because there were a few more non-basketball plays, focus on 95% of the actual game, its easy to see why the difference is overstated.

Hakeem would have rather played in the NBA of the 80/90's than play today, hell even Kevin McHale admits alot of his post moves wouldn't fly today.

basketfan4life
05-14-2014, 02:30 AM
i think some people here love and defend Kobe and LeBron more than they do themselves.

tdg823
05-14-2014, 03:46 AM
Agreed. Last night was "spread the floor, let LeBron drive and either face no resistance or get two FTs".

I don't blame LeBron, I blame the league. LeBron is just playing the game thats in front of him.


I don't think anyone on these forums actually thought the Nets were gonna give the Heat trouble.

Do you really respect the amount of times he was given FTs for nothing more than a slap on the shoulder? I wanna see LeBron get pounded, get back up and drop 50 in anger. Not dropping 50 with zero physical resistance and boatloads of referee support, let alone embellishing these shoulder slaps like he is some warrior truly taking a beating every time he goes to the FT line. How about some toil? WTF ever happened to that? Are you really "proud" of what you saw yesterday? I'm closer to disgusted that someone is actually able to drop 50 the way he did - shoulder slap free throws and uncontested layups.

Strongly +1

tdg823
05-14-2014, 03:47 AM
Agreed. Last night was "spread the floor, let LeBron drive and either face no resistance or get two FTs".

I don't blame LeBron, I blame the league. LeBron is just playing the game thats in front of him.


I don't think anyone on these forums actually thought the Nets were gonna give the Heat trouble.

Do you really respect the amount of times he was given FTs for nothing more than a slap on the shoulder? I wanna see LeBron get pounded, get back up and drop 50 in anger. Not dropping 50 with zero physical resistance and boatloads of referee support, let alone embellishing these shoulder slaps like he is some warrior truly taking a beating every time he goes to the FT line. How about some toil? WTF ever happened to that? Are you really "proud" of what you saw yesterday? I'm closer to disgusted that someone is actually able to drop 50 the way he did - shoulder slap free throws and uncontested layups.


Go watch the double nickel game than go watch LeBron's 49 last night and take note of the difference in defense, beatings, physicality and than come back and fawn over LeBron's performance. He was gifted 15+ FTs and felt nothing but fingernail scratches on his shoulders that he makes sure to inspect everytime he goes to the line like its a stab wound. All of his shots are layups that include defenders running away and trying to avoid contact and subsequent arm-slap fouls, or its a recurring theme of fingernail grazing free throws being gifted. It was a tremendous game no doubt, but this generations "tremendous games" are so soft, I want to see LeBron take a beating and drop 50, not be gifted his 50 with no resistance or punishment. Than I'll be impressed.

If the refs are gonna give you that many ****ing free throws, they need to start letting the defense give some hard fouls. Watching the most physically intimidating player in the league get free throws for some of the "contact" he is getting FTs for is pathetic.

Forgot, this one too

IKnowHoops
05-14-2014, 03:47 AM
Did you see my last post it's about 5 or 6 back about Lebron complaining about little skinny Kirk Hinrich taking him down to the ground. He cries over everything so I don't want to hear this unstoppable garbage if he were to play in a more physical era.

No one in the history of the game could check Lebron :rolleyes: B**ch please!!!

Complaining and being stopped are two different things. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. If someone hits him and there is no foul called, then he should get at the refs. Jordan got the most tick tack fouls called of all-time. Bird and Magic agree with me. Your trying to fight an argument with another argument. And again, when did Malone get thrown down. Lebron isn't a skinny potato chip like Jordan and Iverson. The ruff play doesn't work on him. Hell just keep driving and going to the line. And he still can't be stopped. Deal with it.

tdg823
05-14-2014, 03:58 AM
How many times was karl malone thrown to the ground? Iverson is a buck fitty soaking wet. Jordan was like 180-190 as a rookie. Lebron isnt getting thrown to the ground for the same reason malone didnt get thrown to the ground...they cant because its mans game when he goes to the hole. Someone would have to literally ray lewis him to take him down. People now or then couldnt manhandle him or throw him to the ground. Rodman would get pushed out of the wat easily. Outside of shaq and malone, there is nobody in the last 30 years who could deal with bron physically. Then you add the speed and athletic ability at his side, and there is nobody in the history of the league that could check lebron physically. Thats what makes him so unstoppable. Its not that there not trying to be physical, its that he is too strong for that. He already took an elbow to the throat from a 7 footer and that got still got knocked back. That same exact play against jordan would of put mike on his back. Iverson would of done a summersalt.

That's' the point that gets missed is never addressed. You can't just run into a defensive player and knock him back. Read that last sentence again please. If the player has his position, the offensive player can't dislodge him from it or else that's an offensive foul. Lebron initiates 75% of his contact, making it either a no call or an offensive call. His off ball arm and shoulder carry him to titles and MVP's. Get off his jock. No matter how big and strong he is, it's illegal. Defense has much more to do with positioning than size or strength. Being able to put a wall of defenders under the basket also does little good in this circumstance because no matter who initiates the contact, he's shooting fouls shots. This also affects game plans (aggressiveness in on ball pressure, help defense, closing off driving lanes, whether or not to even contest seriously some of those drives) rotations, playing time and motivation (rightly or not).

tdg823
05-14-2014, 04:01 AM
Jordan didn't get nearly the calls Lebron gets (although he got plenty). This is some next level *******.
And the rough play doesn't work on Lebron because he's the only one allowed to play rough. Easy to win that way.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-14-2014, 04:10 AM
Jordan didn't get nearly the calls Lebron gets (although he got plenty). This is some next level *******.
And the rough play doesn't work on Lebron because he's the only one allowed to play rough. Easy to win that way.^

IKnowHoops
05-14-2014, 04:28 AM
Jordan didn't get nearly the calls Lebron gets (although he got plenty). This is some next level *******.
And the rough play doesn't work on Lebron because he's the only one allowed to play rough. Easy to win that way.

I would disagree

naps
05-14-2014, 04:46 AM
Jordan didn't get nearly the calls Lebron gets (although he got plenty). This is some next level *******.
And the rough play doesn't work on Lebron because he's the only one allowed to play rough. Easy to win that way.

Pretty sure you were not old enough to watch Jordan play. Magic used to joke even off the court that "Don't ever get close to MJ because it's gonna be a foul."

naps
05-14-2014, 04:53 AM
I have a strong feeling amos1er, illusionist248, and nickdymez are basically the same poster. Too much of a coincidence to be three different people.

TheLebronFamily is amos1er's dupe account. He can't resist trolling even when he is banned. LMFAO!



Lmao, of course Illusionist had to come in here and whine about James going for 49 on insane efficiency on the road in a pivotal playoff game. It's just too funny…Always an excuse. ALWAYS. His utter BS has become laughable. :laugh2:

Funny how he is not permabanned after all this trolling and baiting. Expressing opinions is one thing and what he does is basically the definition of trolling/baiting.

tdg823
05-14-2014, 05:33 AM
Pretty sure I was old enough. I watched a lot more of Bird and my Celtics at the time, but I was born in the 70's young man... (late 70's but still). I was too young to really absorb his early years, I grant you that...

IKnowHoops
05-14-2014, 10:32 AM
Jordan didn't get nearly the calls Lebron gets (although he got plenty). This is some next level *******.
And the rough play doesn't work on Lebron because he's the only one allowed to play rough. Easy to win that way.

And quick tackling doesn't work on Barry Sanders because he's the only one allowed to play quick.:facepalm:

And low fast balls don't work against Barry bonds because he's the only one allowed to hit them.:facepalm:

Please dude, your watching a once in a lifetime athlete period. And he's such a beast he makes a mockery of the rest of the league at times. Lebron is a freak of nature. He's doing things no one else can do, because he's built like no one else. He beats guys to spots cause he is faster, and then muscles his way to the rim legally. Once he slows down, (38-42) if he tries to play like he is now those will be charges. But right now those are just a one of a kind player making one of a kind plays. He's getting to the same spots in the lane as Iverson was, the only difference is that when people close in on him and body him they bounce off instead of knocking him to the ground. Yeah its unfair to the league that they are all built like children compared to him. He's doing what he's doing because he is physically so far superior to everyone else, and you can't rap your head around that and it looks to you like he's cheating. Basically what your saying is you can't even comprehend his dominance.

tdg823
05-14-2014, 02:40 PM
If you can't see or really think that he 's beating people to the spots 100% of the time or, and this especially, what he's doing with his off arm I really, really can't help you or reply adequately. You are so desperate to be part of something cool, so caught up in the hype, you see what you want. If he was really beating people to spots (and yes he does beat people to spots a lot, he's an athletic freak) and not initiating contact consistently I would agree. He's no where near Iverson as far as ability to create a shot or create space. That's absurd. Ever see Lebron make somebody stumble off the dribble? Without a forearm or shoulder? You know hoops, come harder than that... He excels because the people in the league are built like children compared to him. Not because of his basketball skills. This creates flaws, holes and shortcomings in his game (that he's barely addresses in how many years) that are obvious. The way the game is called for him hides a lot of his flaws.
Basically what you're saying is you don't understand the context of his dominance. And your facepalms are quite warranted because those two examples are related to what I said how?

Bring The Heat
05-14-2014, 03:31 PM
LeBron drops 49 in a playoff game with a high field goal % and the haters still find an excuse... LOL what he is supposed to do score 49 points all behind the 3 point line with no drives to the basket while being tripled teamed and getting thrown to the floor after every shot, spraining his ankle, dislocating his shoulder, and breaking his nose in the same game and continuing to play and make perimeter shots only because it's TOTALLY not fair that he drives to the rim b/c he so big and fast and players are scared... LOL you guys are pathetic

mngopher35
05-14-2014, 03:34 PM
tgd while I don't agree with the other poster, yours have been almost as bad. The fact you say he hasn't improved his holes/shortcomings is the biggest issue (I can't change your opinion if you see what you want during games).

Since entering the league he has gotten better basically every year. He has improved his defense and shooting year by year basically (more recently the 3 ball has been much better) and has added a post game after a couple of off-seasons ago once he realized he needed another element to scoring (due to the mavs series). Watch any nba game and you will see the things you claim only Lebron gets away with, but you won't always see players continuously improve their game in the same way.

RiLoc
05-14-2014, 03:43 PM
BBallBreakdown: How LeBron Scored The Easiest 49 Points Of His Life: Heat vs Nets Game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuNqFD8IvyE)

nickdymez
05-14-2014, 03:48 PM
lol what a gem
So you give him a condescending response and then tell him not to bother responding because he will only stoop so low too? What he said was perfectly objective, what you responded with was typical kobephile drivel

Of course you would agree with him Chronz. Most of the Lebron fans are not objective at all. You're all in awe of Lebron. Thats fine. Some of us arent, and it doesnt have anything to do with Kobe Bryant. **** Kobe Bryant. So no, I did not feel like having to defend Kobe over his and or your love of Lebon. I havent said anything outrageous, just gave my opinion of Lebron James. It makes you guys burn up inside when someone doesnt blow Lebron. I dont get that. I dont care if you like Kobe or not. I think most of the "Kobephilles" come to Kobes aid when you people just completey disrespect the man

mngopher35
05-14-2014, 04:03 PM
Of course you would agree with him Chronz. Most of the Lebron fans are not objective at all. You're all in awe of Lebron. Thats fine. Some of us arent, and it doesnt have anything to do with Kobe Bryant. **** Kobe Bryant. So no, I did not feel like having to defend Kobe over his and or your love of Lebon. I havent said anything outrageous, just gave my opinion of Lebron James. It makes you guys burn up inside when someone doesnt blow Lebron. I dont get that. I dont care if you like Kobe or not. I think most of the "Kobephilles" come to Kobes aid when you people just completey disrespect the man

There was a thread mid-playoffs to prop up Kobe (who barely played this year anyways) talking about where his teammates are 4 years later lol. Then when people question the op laker/kobe fans go crazy saying everyone is haters etc.

This thread is about a recent playoff game where a player scored 49 points and yet kobephiles come in to start the bashing. The hypocrisy is astounding in some of you.

archdevil84
05-14-2014, 04:05 PM
leBOSS!!!!!!!!

bucketss
05-14-2014, 04:35 PM
lebron showing why hes the best player we have seen since jordan no ?'s Asked !!!

mjm07
05-14-2014, 04:41 PM
Of course you would agree with him Chronz. Most of the Lebron fans are not objective at all. You're all in awe of Lebron. Thats fine. Some of us arent, and it doesnt have anything to do with Kobe Bryant. **** Kobe Bryant. So no, I did not feel like having to defend Kobe over his and or your love of Lebon. I havent said anything outrageous, just gave my opinion of Lebron James. It makes you guys burn up inside when someone doesnt blow Lebron. I dont get that. I dont care if you like Kobe or not. I think most of the "Kobephilles" come to Kobes aid when you people just completey disrespect the man

Can you objectively explain why you are so anti-Bron regarding his on court accomplishments? Please don't mention to me his personality rubs you the wrong the way b/c really that is some g a y / a $ $ / BS excuse.

For ex: I hated MJ for always winning and easily beating the HEAT, among others, but damn was I in "awe", as you put it, over his dominance towards every competitor.

slashsnake
05-14-2014, 04:46 PM
Great game, was hitting from every area, even the junk shots he threw up there. I guess Paul Pierce won't call out for that assignment again.. No offense to him, they just need to throw different players and different looks and hope for the best. I've heard a lot of players and coaches say when his shot is falling, he is unstoppable. That was an example of it.

tdg823
05-14-2014, 05:12 PM
tgd while I don't agree with the other poster, yours have been almost as bad. The fact you say he hasn't improved his holes/shortcomings is the biggest issue (I can't change your opinion if you see what you want during games).

Since entering the league he has gotten better basically every year. He has improved his defense and shooting year by year basically (more recently the 3 ball has been much better) and has added a post game after a couple of off-seasons ago once he realized he needed another element to scoring (due to the mavs series). Watch any nba game and you will see the things you claim only Lebron gets away with, but you won't always see players continuously improve their game in the same way.

He did improve his game in the last 3 or so years, true, but not to the extent that people like to say. Neither his post game nor his jump shot are above average, though I rate his post game, where that extra physicality is at least kinda allowed better of the two. Check his 3 point stats, remove last year and tell me his career average (this year included). Compare it to others around the league. Heck, remove their best one year average (the outlier, the anomaly) and tell me how he stacks up. If you got a lot of time, give me a percentile. Bet it's not too impressive. His man defense has also improved, but it was overrated for a lot of years. It was also how many years before you really saw any improvements in his game. He got way too much credit for being a very incomplete player for too many years and now that he's finally started to address his deficiencies, he's touted as superhuman. Not the case, his deficiencies aren't strengths, their passable. He's an all time great, no question, but don't give me any of this GOAT idol worshipping stuff. Most fascinating thing going in sports right now, like how we've been sold supply side economics for 30 years even though it's been an obvious train wreck. We can plainly see it but act and accept otherwise. This is one of those things. You're told something so much, people around you believe it, eventually it's accepted by you too. Fascinating but horrible aspect of people. Like watching a car wreck, I have a morbid fascination. It's quite clear that if I watch any other game I won't see other getting away with the same things Lebron does. Getting that off arm out there is getting more popular, but even with that others are feeling with it and retracting it if doing it at all, not using it to ward off and establish position with it extended before the defender even is close enough to actually touch him many times. He puts it out there like an extra blocker on the way to the basket and will push it through you if need be. No one else is doing that consistently. Period.

tdg823
05-14-2014, 05:17 PM
The pistons game, the Celtics game (6), those were all performances worthy of pretty much whatever accolades you want to give them. This wasn't that. Those games though are what Lebron could be if he really worked on his game an developd is weak areas like he's perceived too. He has more God given talent and natural ability than anyone I've ever seen, possibly in any sport.

nickdymez
05-14-2014, 05:25 PM
Can you objectively explain why you are so anti-Bron regarding his on court accomplishments? Please don't mention to me his personality rubs you the wrong the way b/c really that is some g a y / a $ $ / BS excuse.

For ex: I hated MJ for always winning and easily beating the HEAT, among others, but damn was I in "awe", as you put it, over his dominance towards every competitor.

Again, Im not anti Lebron. I just dont marvel at him like some of you do. He's physically and athleticlly dominate and thats cool.

mngopher35
05-14-2014, 06:42 PM
He did improve his game in the last 3 or so years, true, but not to the extent that people like to say. Neither his post game nor his jump shot are above average, though I rate his post game, where that extra physicality is at least kinda allowed better of the two. Check his 3 point stats, remove last year and tell me his career average (this year included). Compare it to others around the league. Heck, remove their best one year average (the outlier, the anomaly) and tell me how he stacks up. If you got a lot of time, give me a percentile. Bet it's not too impressive. His man defense has also improved, but it was overrated for a lot of years. It was also how many years before you really saw any improvements in his game. He got way too much credit for being a very incomplete player for too many years and now that he's finally started to address his deficiencies, he's touted as superhuman. Not the case, his deficiencies aren't strengths, their passable. He's an all time great, no question, but don't give me any of this GOAT idol worshipping stuff. Most fascinating thing going in sports right now, like how we've been sold supply side economics for 30 years even though it's been an obvious train wreck. We can plainly see it but act and accept otherwise. This is one of those things. You're told something so much, people around you believe it, eventually it's accepted by you too. Fascinating but horrible aspect of people. Like watching a car wreck, I have a morbid fascination. It's quite clear that if I watch any other game I won't see other getting away with the same things Lebron does. Getting that off arm out there is getting more popular, but even with that others are feeling with it and retracting it if doing it at all, not using it to ward off and establish position with it extended before the defender even is close enough to actually touch him many times. He puts it out there like an extra blocker on the way to the basket and will push it through you if need be. No one else is doing that consistently. Period.

His 3 point percentage stacks up with top 10 all time perimeter greats like Jordan and Kobe, not sure your point in calling him out there (and he has improved it over the last couple years as you said to it might end up better percentage wise). Why don't you show me the analysis of how much all the other greats have improved so much more. Once you do I will respond, but until then you are just clearly not a fan. You decide that Lebron isn't as good so you just choose to believe it and see what you want to see. I will wait for all of the improvements from each player over their careers that is very in depth like you would ask me to do.

It is very obvious he has been improving his all around game every year. If you disagree feel free to spend the time and prove it but I have no want/need to argue with someone who will blow everything off because they dislike him. Once you resort to "you only like him because others do" you know it is pretty weak. You could literally say that for most superstars as they all have periods of time where they are huge deals. You are choosing to see what you want while most of us are enjoying another all time great.

slashsnake
05-14-2014, 06:58 PM
He did improve his game in the last 3 or so years, true, but not to the extent that people like to say. Neither his post game nor his jump shot are above average, though I rate his post game, where that extra physicality is at least kinda allowed better of the two. Check his 3 point stats, remove last year and tell me his career average (this year included). Compare it to others around the league. Heck, remove their best one year average (the outlier, the anomaly) and tell me how he stacks up. If you got a lot of time, give me a percentile. Bet it's not too impressive. His man defense has also improved, but it was overrated for a lot of years. It was also how many years before you really saw any improvements in his game. He got way too much credit for being a very incomplete player for too many years and now that he's finally started to address his deficiencies, he's touted as superhuman. Not the case, his deficiencies aren't strengths, their passable.

So here are the percentages...

Lebron shot 40% from 3-10 foot in Cleveland, now hitting that at 49.5% in Miami 10% above the league average of 39.2%

He shot 32% from 10-16 foot in Cleveland, now hitting that at 44%. League average is 40%

He shot 33% from three in Cleveland, now at 37%. League average is 36%.

So that is comparing it around the league. His weakness as you say is better than the average player.

And his strength, scoring at the rim went from 70 to 77% in Miami, league average being 63%.

So Lebron from ranges 3-10 shoots 49% to Durants 41.7% this year
And Lebron from 10-16 shoots 44% to Kevin Durants 44% this year.
And Lebron from 16-the 3 pt line shoots 42% to Durants 44% this year

So his average in Miami is basically on par with an MVP season by a guy with a pretty sweet stroke.

You are right, his deficiencies of the mid range shot isn't the best. 10 foot to the three point line he's been about a percent under Curry for his career for example. His 3pt shot falls just 1% above average right now. But he won game 7 of last years NBA finals with that deficiency. They forced him to shoot the mid range jumper and he won a ring by doing it. That's a pretty strong deficiency to get forced to use it and have that success with it.

As for his overrated post game, he's over doubled his post ups since 2011 to this past year. And synergy sports an analytics company, does some great breakdowns. They watch every game and count the numbers on every scenario. Lebron averages 1.185 points per post up posession, which if you are wondering is first in the NBA out of the post. (he has been top 5 in the league in this stat every year in Miami) Why? He gets to the rim for a shot on 30% of his post ups. Up from 14% in 2011. That's where he shoots nearly 80%. The other half of his post game is creating for others. I would say he's a pretty good passer out of the post as well.


As for how many years it took to see this improvement in his game and why he didn't improve until just lately...

1st 2 years 47% from 2pt range
next 2 years 51.6%
Next 2 years 53.3%
Next 2 years 55.6%
Last 3 years 59.4%

Isn't that pretty much a perfect showing of constant growth? His overall FG% dropped ONCE so far in his career from the previous year... by .4%. 10 out of his 11 seasons he set a personal record for FG%. I just noticed this. Has anyone in the history of the NBA done that before?


Look, I get the other side. Teams are not pushing up on him in the midrange jumper because he's so devastating on his drives. You don't play Lebron like you do Curry on the perimeter. He gets open looks.

The other one is in the post. Doubling him there is just stupid when his other guys can either hit open threes or cut to the hole for layups and have a great passer with the size and length to pass out of a double team easily with the ball. You may double Marc Gasol or Al Jefferson, but Lebron is an elite kick out passer who can create an offense in the post. You take those one on one because they are the "weaker" parts of his game.

But if you wanted the numbers on how effective he is in those two area's... there you go.

mngopher35
05-14-2014, 07:09 PM
haha thanks slash, I don't have access to all that data. I agree with everything including the fact that teams back of him giving him open shots. The point of the argument though is his improvement and it isn't like they just started to do that to him recently.

Some people just don't like him and will use whatever they can to try and bash him. Sometimes it is justified others it is not. He is one of the most physically dominant players of all time, but it also takes great skill to enter these top 10 discussions. He just uses the physical attributes more to get where he is (like Shaq and Wilt before him). Doesn't take away from him as a player at all, it is what has made him the best player since Jordan to me (who also was amazing physically). He has however continued to develop as a player year after year to continue his path, instead of just solely using that ability without ever looking to improve.

slashsnake
05-14-2014, 07:17 PM
wrong post... lol deleted

tdg823
05-14-2014, 08:51 PM
Let's see. He's solid from the free throw line in. No surprise there. He's just slightly above average beyond that although being historically below average until I believe last year or so (an outlier I believe as I cited earlier and asked that you consider, along with seasons by others that were outside their norm). And I think there's some revisionist history here. He has more playoff games in his career (or even just his Miami playoff career) where teams dared him in almost laughable, Rondoesque ways to shoot and not only did he fail to deliver, at times he looked like he wanted to find somewhere on the court to hide when he had the ball dribbling it 30 feet fro the basket with his man 12 feet off him than games where his shooting saved the day. Yes he's shot very well at times in the playoffs, but at least as often he's looked horrible shooting and that very much gets forgotten. So I really so nothing to concede in that regard although I do appreciate such a thorough, polite articulate argument. Heck ask Heat fans how far they think they'll get with Lebron relying on fadeaways, midrange jumpshots (keyword jumpshots) and three's. I bet you they wouldn't be too confident in that one.

As for his post game, it once again context. His numbers look good but if you watch the process not the result, show me four post moves he has. Not that he accidentally did, but uses and is good at. The gaudy numbers are from him posting smaller defenders and/or

See Joe Johnson gets called for that push off... sorry

getting away with more contact than is legal a lot of times. He has improved there though, I admitted that earlier. I just don't see an above average post player out there playing the game, though I see and concede the results. I see a rather rudimentary post game honestly, the bigger difference is he's just not afraid to go down there now. He is the same size as Karl Malone, he's built to play in the post. He should have at least league average success.
His passing warrants a whole post in and of itself.

As for his improvement, you do make a very solid counterpoint there. I will say though, look at the numbers closely. Two big jumps. One from what appears too be substandard shooting his first two years. Then slow incremental improvement for six years. Then another big jump his last three years where I myself cited his improvement previously. So sure, I'll concede that to some extent. But this is simply on two's which means he's gotten better at driving to the basket(?). Pretty broad and doesn't tell me much specifically about his improvement. But it is better than I gave him credit for.

tdg823
05-14-2014, 08:58 PM
Gopher, you latch on to the issue of his improvements to discredit me, and I'm happy to defend myself there, but I made many other points. To you concede dispute or simply care not to address them? Not that any answer is wrong or too attack you, just curious since you seem so dismissive of my position.

mngopher35
05-14-2014, 09:59 PM
He did exactly what you asked and you basically wrote it off. That is why I didn't put in the time or effort. You obviously have a bias against him and no matter what is brought to your attention you will ignore it and have your own opinions.

I do agree that Lebron gets more space, but you were arguing against him showing improvements there. His data shows a steady increase over the years in his shooting percentages. These 3 last years he has that better from 3 as a whole, not just last year. He also gave you data for post play as well which you asked for and ignored. You asked me to compare his shooting percentages to others and I told you that his are the same as two other all time greats. Yes he gets dared to shoot way more, but I never said he was a better overall shooter, just that he has continually improved.

What Lebron brings to the table that other players who shoot better is his playmaking, passing, rebounding, defense, and overall versatility. He takes what the defense gives him and is generally very good at choosing the most efficient option.

I am not saying he is perfect, I am saying he has improved his game over the years. You completely ignored every point slash made in that effect just like I said you would earlier.

hidalgo
05-14-2014, 10:12 PM
great game, but that missed FT that would have gave him 50 right at the end kinda left the game on a sour note. i was pissed when he missed it. like "oh come on! WTF?", he wanted that 50 pretty bad & tried too hard on the FT & "brick". was lame, Jordan would have swished that FT all day. he was a stone cold killer out there, those moments actually made him more likely to make the shot. ice water in MJ's veins. i still really like LeBron(best in the NBA, Durant #2) & was rootin for him, was just a letdown after such a great game

mngopher35
05-14-2014, 10:13 PM
I don't really know what your other points are to be quite honest? That people follow him because he's the star or that you think he gets superstar calls (which have been a round for a long time)? Why argue that when it is objective and clearly an opinion you are not likely to change. You write off the stuff that we actually have data for.

Lebron has his negatives no doubt, but so does every single player out there. Like I mentioned in the post above he is amazing at getting the most efficient shots out of what the defense gives him. He can play the help defender or be the 1 on 1 main guy, with a large range of people he can defend. Very few teams have the ability to win without a dominant big, or pair of great bigs. The heat can because they have the talent and because Lebron can cover so many holes.

How often do we see a player who is the best scorer, playmaker/passer, and defender while also racking up the most rebounds for a championship team? You can choose to write him off, that is fine by me. Don't expect everyone to agree with your ideas though and just because they don't agree doesn't mean they are following everyone else. It might just mean that you are the one seeing things how you want to.

slashsnake
05-14-2014, 10:24 PM
As for his improvement, you do make a very solid counterpoint there. I will say though, look at the numbers closely. Two big jumps. One from what appears too be substandard shooting his first two years. Then slow incremental improvement for six years. Then another big jump his last three years where I myself cited his improvement previously. So sure, I'll concede that to some extent. But this is simply on two's which means he's gotten better at driving to the basket(?). Pretty broad and doesn't tell me much specifically about his improvement. But it is better than I gave him credit for.


Nice points. I agree his post game is raw, but it is very effective. Jordan didn't have 4 moves either. He had the baseline fadeaway and the up and under (same with Kobe the fade, and the ball fake). That made up 90% or more of what they did in the post. But being 6'6 against smaller shooting guards gave him a huge advantage and he was one of the best post up guards I've seen. Dennis Johnson had massive post up skills. Deron Williams has beautiful moves there. Andre Miller has insane stuff there too. Gary Payton had possibly the smoothest moves in the post I've seen. They didn't make MJ less effective there though.

Shaq didn't have the moves that Olajuwon or Ewing had in the post, but was very effective there. Not really looking at how pretty Lebron's game is, just how effective it is. His numbers aren't good. He's the most effective scoring post player in the league. It's like saying Durant doesn't have enough moves to be a great scorer when he wins the scoring title.

It was slow incremental improvement, but like I said, it kind of astounded me that it was constantly improving. I just hadn't seen that with any player before, and not sure if you can find a guy who over a period of time increased his FG% by 10% between his first three years and a 3 year stretch later in his career. I think it was more his changing his game to worry about getting the best shot rather than getting the foul as he moved along before Miami, but thats just my thought there. More a mental awareness improvement than anything else early on at least until the past few years where really, his shooting % for a guy who plays so much on the perimeter (aka not a Nene or Drummond type player) is just crazy.

On the three's, it was more the past 3 years where he took that jump. Career 32.9% shooter his first 8 years. Not great, but good enough to take it here and there I guess. That Kobe/Jordan type percentage. Now shooting 38.5% the past 3 years. I used to cringe when he shot the three because it wasn't the smart move most of the time, but now it is an effective shot. He's 6'8 and 270 lbs. The ability to hit a 3 at that kind of clip is just unfair.

That 38.5% is better than some guys we think of as 3 pt shooters like Harden, Melo, Love, Lowry, and Lilliard in the same time. That's better than Dirk's career average from downtown. I'd call that effective enough for a guy who uses it as a supplementary shot.

I agree you don't want him living off jumpers. There's very few great players you do want living on the jumper. Dirk... Curry... It isn't a good shot to take. They did dare him, but now when they do that, he passes the ball, posts up and they have to deal with that instead.

I just think that not having those things early isn't really a detriment. Earlier in his career he was a great defender, an amazing passer a great rebounder, an elite scorer... I guess I'd consider him one of the most versatile players out there that I've seen. Sure he didn't come into the league perfect. But as you can see, his two weak points lately aren't that weak.

I always thought Melo was by far the purer scorer. I know Lebron had a scoring title, and scores at a better pace than Dominique at this point in his career and all, but Melo just had the smoothness to his game. I got bashed in the past posting that, and it basically came down to "how can you call someone not a great scorer when he's 3rd all time in points per game". But Melo could post low, post out on the wing, off the dribble, the strong under the rim finish... Melo looked like the guy who could still be a great scorer when his athletic ability left him later in his career. The Paul Pierce type of scorer who just gets his shot where he wants when he wants. Now I think Lebron looks a lot closer now, at just being a comfortable scorer.