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View Full Version : Bynum, Odom, and World Peace are all banished from the League.....



Tony_Starks
05-09-2014, 08:19 PM
Everytime some Laker haters bring up their latest championship run they always bring up Bynum, Odom, and MWP like they are hall of famers. Well Bynum just got kicked off his 3rd team in one season, Odom got dropped by the NBA AND the Kardashians, and my boy World Peace managed to somehow get dropped from the Knicks......the Knicks!!!!!!!

So what happened? Is it ok to finally admit that just maybe some certain player made them all better?......

Raps18-19 Champ
05-09-2014, 08:22 PM
So you think the best way to defend the Lakers last run is to talk about players like 4 years after?

goingfor28
05-09-2014, 08:23 PM
Bynum injured
Odom crackhead
Artest old

Jamiecballer
05-09-2014, 08:24 PM
Just because they are nutjobs who've wasted their careers doesn't change what they did before the league had seen enough of their antics

5ass
05-09-2014, 08:27 PM
Fishing for compliments for Kobe? Why do you feel the need to do that?

Bruno
05-09-2014, 08:28 PM
kobe did make all of them better. but they were also talented in their own right.

Tony_Starks
05-09-2014, 08:31 PM
Bynum injured
Odom crackhead
Artest old

Weren't they all nutjobs before getting rings? Do you know their history?

* edit, my bad. I meant this comment for Jamie who said they're all nutjobs now....

DillyDill
05-09-2014, 08:31 PM
Also lets not forget the system and Coach they where under, bringing the best out those talents

Hellcrooner
05-09-2014, 08:32 PM
Everytime some Laker haters bring up their latest championship run they always bring up Bynum, Odom, and MWP like they are hall of famers. Well Bynum just got kicked off his 3rd team in one season, Odom got dropped by the NBA AND the Kardashians, and my boy World Peace managed to somehow get dropped from the Knicks......the Knicks!!!!!!!

So what happened? Is it ok to finally admit that just maybe some certain player made them all better?......

let me check.

Pau Gasol?


:D

Jamiecballer
05-09-2014, 08:37 PM
Weren't they all nutjobs before getting rings? Do you know their history?

* edit, my bad. I meant this comment for Jamie who said they're all nutjobs now....

They were which is why I said the league tired of their acts.

And Phil Jackson knows how to handle troubled individuals

NYKnickFanatic
05-09-2014, 08:42 PM
Uhm, Odom is on the Knicks...

And the Knicks were stupid to let Artest go.

PhillyFaninLA
05-09-2014, 08:42 PM
Are you sure you don't actually hate Kobe.......you've been around long enough to know a topic like you are creating will only cause more Kobe hate and an unnecessary argument.

Tony_Starks
05-09-2014, 08:47 PM
Are you sure you don't actually hate Kobe.......you've been around long enough to know a topic like you are creating will only cause more Kobe hate and an unnecessary argument.

The hate is already there. I just enjoy hearing the logic of people that insist Kobe was "gifted" rings.

But I do get your point.

Ill21
05-09-2014, 08:50 PM
Bynum injured
Odom crackhead
Artest old

yup

bucketss
05-09-2014, 08:57 PM
so why did pau gasol start sucking sicne kobe is such AH MAH ****ing GEEEEEEEEE

Hawkeye15
05-09-2014, 09:10 PM
Everytime some Laker haters bring up their latest championship run they always bring up Bynum, Odom, and MWP like they are hall of famers. Well Bynum just got kicked off his 3rd team in one season, Odom got dropped by the NBA AND the Kardashians, and my boy World Peace managed to somehow get dropped from the Knicks......the Knicks!!!!!!!

So what happened? Is it ok to finally admit that just maybe some certain player made them all better?......

3 things:

1- Phil Jackson is the reason, he controls problem children better than any coach ever.
2- It is 2014, not 09-10'. Odom and MWP are old and done. Bynum's knees are not working, and he is fat.
3- You are so concerned with protecting Kobe's image. I don't get why you feel that need so much. It's one thing to reply to a thread, another to lead the charge all the time.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2014, 09:12 PM
I also love Kobephiles/LeBron haters who pour on LeBron for Allen's shot (totally ignoring LeBron went nova to bring them back in), and fail to understand that MWP had the game of his year in game 7, and the Lakers interior defense kept them in that game until Kobe decided to finally make 2-3 shots after bricking everything in site for 3 quarters.

bathroom_man
05-09-2014, 09:15 PM
The hate is already there. I just enjoy hearing the logic of people that insist Kobe was "gifted" rings.

But I do get your point.

Kobe was gifted rings because while in his prime, he join a prime shaq then later join a prime gasol and the west coast team were water down

Yanks All Day
05-09-2014, 09:15 PM
When the Lakers won their titles:

Bynum was considered by many as the 2nd best big man in basketball behind Dwight, and was 1/2 of the Lakers' dominant Bynum-Pau combination.

Odom was a very serviceable forward who could score and handle the ball while running some of the offense for the second unit.

World Peace was a very good defender who took away the other team's best player on a nightly basis.

Just because they're out of the league now doesn't mean they weren't really good a few years ago. Phil Jackson managed them all perfectly. If not for these guys, Kobe wouldn't have that 5th ring since he played one of the worst offensive Game 7s of all time.

bathroom_man
05-09-2014, 09:17 PM
I also love Kobephiles/LeBron haters who pour on LeBron for Allen's shot (totally ignoring LeBron went nova to bring them back in), and fail to understand that MWP had the game of his year in game 7, and the Lakers interior defense kept them in that game until Kobe decided to finally make 2-3 shots after bricking everything in site for 3 quarters.

Different game situations between allen 3pt shot and mwp monster game 7. Kobe and lebron were both rescue but not exactly in the same way.

flea
05-09-2014, 09:19 PM
Yeah the reason Odom is a candy-addicted weirdo, the reason Bynum is a lazy center with bum knees, and the reason MWP got old are all because lack of Kobe in their lives.

The Kobe factor extends not just on the court, where he turns seemingly worthless human beings into prime Ewing, prime Magic, and prime Pippen, but off the court as well. They are all 3 depressed losers because Kobe hurt his Achilles, and the world continues to turn around the legend Kobe Bean Bryant.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2014, 09:22 PM
Different game situations between allen 3pt shot and mwp monster game 7. Kobe and lebron were both rescue but not exactly in the same way.

Kobe needed 40 minutes of it. That is the difference.

ciaban
05-09-2014, 09:40 PM
kobe did make all of them better. but they were also talented in their own right.

Yeah, at the time Bynum was considered the 2nd best center in the league, Odom won 6th man of the year, and MWP is still a really good defender that filled a hole at SF. He was kind of the lynch pin defensively, because he could move around between 3-4 and Lamar could play 4-5 to go along with Gasol and Bynum. MWP was really important in those two championships, because he was able to get up in Paul Pierce's way and also help slow down garnett, and all the big men didn't allow Dwight Howard to be the impact player Orlando need him to be.

Tony_Starks
05-09-2014, 09:53 PM
I also love Kobephiles/LeBron haters who pour on LeBron for Allen's shot (totally ignoring LeBron went nova to bring them back in), and fail to understand that MWP had the game of his year in game 7, and the Lakers interior defense kept them in that game until Kobe decided to finally make 2-3 shots after bricking everything in site for 3 quarters.

Nobody brought up Bron. Has absolutely nothing to do with him.

Strictly Kobe and how he gets judged by a completely different standard.

Sadds The Gr8
05-09-2014, 09:57 PM
Lol Kobe fans....

Hellcrooner
05-09-2014, 10:05 PM
When the Lakers won their titles:

Bynum was considered by many as the 2nd best big man in basketball behind Dwight, and was 1/2 of the Lakers' dominant Bynum-Pau combination.

Odom was a very serviceable forward who could score and handle the ball while running some of the offense for the second unit.

World Peace was a very good defender who took away the other team's best player on a nightly basis.

Just because they're out of the league now doesn't mean they weren't really good a few years ago. Phil Jackson managed them all perfectly. If not for these guys, Kobe wouldn't have that 5th ring since he played one of the worst offensive Game 7s of all time.

Theres so many things wrong in that sentence that i dont know where to start.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2014, 10:05 PM
Nobody brought up Bron. Has absolutely nothing to do with him.

Strictly Kobe and how he gets judged by a completely different standard.

by a different standard? That is pure bs

HeatAttack
05-09-2014, 10:06 PM
How can one compare 2008-09 and 2009-10 to 2014?

Bruno
05-09-2014, 10:09 PM
I also love Kobephiles/LeBron haters who pour on LeBron for Allen's shot (totally ignoring LeBron went nova to bring them back in), and fail to understand that MWP had the game of his year in game 7, and the Lakers interior defense kept them in that game until Kobe decided to finally make 2-3 shots after bricking everything in site for 3 quarters.

only things I'd say:

1) Artest was 7/18 from the field in game 7 and needed 18 shots to get 20 points (i'm not bashing him everyone sucked from the field in that sludge match of a game seven).

2) Kobe contributed to that interior defense if we want to count his 11 defensive rebounds as 'interior defensive contributions'. he did manage to out rebound Wallace, KG and Allen combined in a series where the winner of the glass won every game in the series.

2010 feels so long ago, it already seems like the league has changed so much. 79-83 final score? sludge match.

JWorthy42
05-09-2014, 10:12 PM
Ugh, get over it.

2-ONE-5
05-09-2014, 10:12 PM
Everytime some Laker haters bring up their latest championship run they always bring up Bynum, Odom, and MWP like they are hall of famers. Well Bynum just got kicked off his 3rd team in one season, Odom got dropped by the NBA AND the Kardashians, and my boy World Peace managed to somehow get dropped from the Knicks......the Knicks!!!!!!!

So what happened? Is it ok to finally admit that just maybe some certain player made them all better?......

you are talking years later. the Artest and Odom aged and declined since and Bynum was able to walk back then.

Cracka2HI!
05-09-2014, 10:13 PM
I've never seen a more irrelevant thread.

bathroom_man
05-09-2014, 10:17 PM
Kobe needed 40 minutes of it. That is the difference.

It counts at the end. Although lebron had a good spurts here and there. They both did the little things but lebron late game suckiness was more magnified

rex.reyesiii
05-09-2014, 10:23 PM
Kobe now is on the look out to make a Coach better. :) he now has a say who'll they hire next...

ManningToTyree
05-09-2014, 10:24 PM
Yeah and pippen wasn't that good. He hasn't played in a decade. Jordan made him

king4day
05-09-2014, 10:53 PM
Slightly misleading title

Hawkeye15
05-09-2014, 10:55 PM
It counts at the end. Although lebron had a good spurts here and there. They both did the little things but lebron late game suckiness was more magnified

So LeBron scoring 18, and totally dominating the entire 4th is wiped out by Allen's shot, but Kobe can play 40 pathetic minutes and have his team bail him out, and you seriously think one is more pathetic than the other?

Question. Can you find me one series in LeBron's history, where if he wasn't the best player in the series, his team advanced? Kobe has not faced that pressure for many of his series wins.

People can put into perspective anything they desire, but acting like James has had an easier time winning his rings than a lot of other guys is pure garbage to me. He ALWAYS had to be #1, option A, whatever you want to come up with.

bathroom_man
05-09-2014, 11:33 PM
So LeBron scoring 18, and totally dominating the entire 4th is wiped out by Allen's shot, but Kobe can play 40 pathetic minutes and have his team bail him out, and you seriously think one is more pathetic than the other?

Question. Can you find me one series in LeBron's history, where if he wasn't the best player in the series, his team advanced? Kobe has not faced that pressure for many of his series wins.

People can put into perspective anything they desire, but acting like James has had an easier time winning his rings than a lot of other guys is pure garbage to me. He ALWAYS had to be #1, option A, whatever you want to come up with.

Yes lebron had the better stats. Iam strictly talking about how they were both rescue by their teams perspective. The lakers didnt get a lucky rebound to fisher who drain a 3 on a kobe miss with 15 sec left. Lebron and the heat did.

This circumstance is way different than fisher.04 shot and horry 3 top of the key against sac. This wasnt a game 6 with your legacy on the line

Kobe didnt face alot of pressure for many of his series. Because his teams were smart and put the other teams before they can do anything. Although, the lakers sleepwalks in the regular season but they put away their opponents out in the playoffs. Not the case with james. They coast against the celtics b4 putting them away in game 6& 7. Same thing with indiana the past 2 yrs.

DaLakerz Rulz
05-10-2014, 12:11 AM
lebron vs. ze gratest ever no ?s asked: take 2.5x10^8

Tony_Starks
05-10-2014, 04:29 AM
So LeBron scoring 18, and totally dominating the entire 4th is wiped out by Allen's shot, but Kobe can play 40 pathetic minutes and have his team bail him out, and you seriously think one is more pathetic than the other?

Question. Can you find me one series in LeBron's history, where if he wasn't the best player in the series, his team advanced? Kobe has not faced that pressure for many of his series wins.

People can put into perspective anything they desire, but acting like James has had an easier time winning his rings than a lot of other guys is pure garbage to me. He ALWAYS had to be #1, option A, whatever you want to come up with.

Kobe played a major role in beating Portland and Sacramento. Arguably the best two teams to never win a title. He was the best two way player on the floor. The numbers he put up against the Kings can only be compared to LMA against the Rockets. Not to mention the routinely contending YOUNG Spurs, served them too on a regular basis....

Even you can't deny this, whoever your favorite player is never defeated such competition. Facts.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-10-2014, 04:38 AM
kobe did make all of them better. but they were also talented in their own right. True, but Kobe has brought out the best in those guys. He gets no credit for making players play to their highest potential.

ILLUSIONIST^248
05-10-2014, 04:43 AM
Hawk crying like usual.

mngopher35
05-10-2014, 04:59 AM
OP can you find me 5 better front courts than Pau/Bynum/Odom at the time? I am honestly curious.

I really don't get the point of this thread though. Kobe wasn't gifted championships but was "gifted" championship caliber teams (like many greats before him). Just because 4 years later two older players are gone (each with their own problems) and Bynums knees finally gave out doesn't mean they weren't good then. They also had Phil to manage the team as well.

This isn't to say anything negative about Kobe though, just seems odd. He earned those two titles and has 2 finals MVP's to show for it. Again what is the point?

beasted86
05-10-2014, 05:00 AM
Fishing for compliments for Kobe? Why do you feel the need to do that?

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beasted86
05-10-2014, 05:02 AM
True, but Kobe has brought out the best in those guys. He gets no credit for making players play to their highest potential.

Their highest potential? Odom and Artest had their best seasons in other teams.

Asik's better
05-10-2014, 05:47 AM
Hey it's play-offs time you know what everyone should talk about, Kobe. Hey let's create a relavent thread about a tim Duncan record who is in the play-offs. Nah let's make it about Kobe. Blah blah blah.

IKnowHoops
05-10-2014, 06:05 AM
The hate is already there. I just enjoy hearing the logic of people that insist Kobe was "gifted" rings.

But I do get your point.

Well when Kobe goes 5/25 in a game 7 and they win, its hard to give Kobe the majority of the credit for that dub. I don't know what to tell ya other than 20% from the field and win means you were carried.

IKnowHoops
05-10-2014, 06:09 AM
I've never seen a more irrelevant thread.

LOL, so true. Its late and I had nothing to do instead so...

naps
05-10-2014, 06:52 AM
Is this a serious thread?
OK. Let's look back 4 years....

Odom = 6th man of the year

Artest = Still arguably the best perimeter defender on the planet and a very capable offensive player who put up 17/4/5 the year before in Houston and who basically won game 7 vs Boston when Kobe choked mightily (6-24) in the biggest game of his career.

Bynum = 2nd best center in the game after Dwight Howard.



Nice try OP. Kobe is good where he is at. No need to feel so insecure and thus overrate the **** outta him.






Hey it's play-offs time you know what everyone should talk about, Kobe. Hey let's create a relavent thread about a tim Duncan record who is in the play-offs. Nah let's make it about Kobe. Blah blah blah.

Way too many Kobe-sucking threads by kobephiles. I feel bad for them. They are being irrelevant and left out during this most exciting time of the year for basketball.

JasonJohnHorn
05-10-2014, 09:40 AM
MWP and Odom are older players and some guys just don't age that well.

MWP relied on his quickness as a defender, and that was the main reason to have him on the court. He's a little slower, so that defense doesn't keep him on the court like it used too.


Odom has gone through some personal issues and is an aging player and has not played in systems that he excels in lately. I know people at work who go through personal issues, and for months or a year or more, they simply do not perform at the same level they once did. They might return to that form later, but in sports, once you've dipped in terms of performance, teams don't want to take a chance, especially if you are on the wrong side of 30.

Bynum has knee injuries. What can you do about that?


All of these guys were playing at a HOF level when they won the championship. That is true. I wouldn't argue that. That doesn't mean they are HOF players, as many players (Mike James for example) have a season where they play at a very high level and never reach that level again. Other players hit that and play there for a few seasons (Granger), but then recede quickly due to injury, trades, new coaches, ect...

Bottom line: they all got rings.

BALLER R
05-10-2014, 10:23 AM
All after they left the Lakers.

Chrisclover
05-10-2014, 10:27 AM
The legendary big 3 of lakerland

TylerSL
05-10-2014, 12:29 PM
Ron Artest was old when the Lakers won that title in 2010, Odom became a drug addict after the Lakers cut him, and Bynum, when not injured, doesn't even like basketball. They were all talented players but none will probably ever play again.

ManRam
05-10-2014, 12:39 PM
Everytime some Laker haters bring up their latest championship run they always bring up Bynum, Odom, and MWP like they are hall of famers. Well Bynum just got kicked off his 3rd team in one season, Odom got dropped by the NBA AND the Kardashians, and my boy World Peace managed to somehow get dropped from the Knicks......the Knicks!!!!!!!

So what happened? Is it ok to finally admit that just maybe some certain player made them all better?......

Age, drugs and injuries. [/thread]

Usually players that get older get worse. Usually players that have chronic and constant injuries fall apart. Usually players that don't have a huge passion for the game tend to have less and less passion as they go along.

Seems pretty clear-cut. Of course playing with a top 5 player is gonna make life easier. But those guys were all great talents in their own right. Artest's best years weren't with LAL. Odom had great years before LAL. Bynum is just Bynum :shrug:

TheNumber37
05-10-2014, 01:03 PM
Bynum is still not 100%
Odom fell to Drugs and is ON the Knicks Roster!
and MWP was misued by Woodson, who will be on a roster next season.

L8kers4life
05-10-2014, 01:35 PM
Hawkeye he airballed a layup with less than 24 seconds left, than turned over the ball, the heat ended up getting a lucky bounce that rolled to ray Allen and he hit a shot that saved them, the heat fans thought it was over and started to leave the building. Don't act like that wasn't a big deal, everyone though the game was over including the heat fans. Had ray allen missed that shot lebron would have been crucified. Sure kobe has been bailed out before, but lebron choked in that last minute, and his legacy changed when allen hit tha shot.

Chronz
05-10-2014, 02:00 PM
Interesting thread is not interesting

mngopher35
05-10-2014, 03:22 PM
Hawkeye he airballed a layup with less than 24 seconds left, than turned over the ball, the heat ended up getting a lucky bounce that rolled to ray Allen and he hit a shot that saved them, the heat fans thought it was over and started to leave the building. Don't act like that wasn't a big deal, everyone though the game was over including the heat fans. Had ray allen missed that shot lebron would have been crucified. Sure kobe has been bailed out before, but lebron choked in that last minute, and his legacy changed when allen hit tha shot.

See this is where many people will differ. I haven't heard outside of psd that his legacy is changed with that shot (not sure if you were implying it should be or not). Heck I haven't even seen non laker/kobe fans posting things like this. Yes Lebron needed his teammates help to win a title no doubt, but so have many stars in the past (like Kobe 2010).

In the 4th he had 16 points and 2 assists to keep his team in it even. In overtime he had two assists and two points. In the final 65 minutes of the series he had 55 points and 8 assists on good efficiency. So while a few people may decide to pick and "change his legacy" off of a teammate help him with a single shot, many will realize what he did to put them in position to win and take over the following game.

On the other hand Kobe needed his team to up their performance for 40 plus minutes to have a chance at the title. If that happens for Lebron in either game the Heat will be losing. I am not even trying to bash Kobe here as I give him credit as well for winning the title. Gasol was a huge factor in that series as well and people have questioned if he should have gotten finals mvp (personally I don't, but just saying). Lebron doesn't have that issue because he was by far the biggest contributor and the reason they won (despite your claim of one shot affecting his legacy).

If you want to know how players played in the "clutch" throughout the series, here are the 4th quarter shooting stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=MIA&opp_id=SAS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

Lebron's and some teammates

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2010&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=LAL&opp_id=BOS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

Kobe's and some teammates.

Now once again this isn't to bash Kobe, and isn't the entire story of each series in any way. It is to show that each player needed help from their teammates to win. Both of these players deserve credit for winning both of their rings as the man. Kobe deserves his credit for the 3 rings when he was lighting it up next to Shaq as well. Everything needs context and we can't crucify a player for a couple of missed shots and needing a help from one player. I don't see how you can call needing ray to make one late shot a huge deal but not the fact a player went 6/24 in the game and overall played poorly in the 4th quarters not. Both players needed big contributions from their teams and got it.

Lakers + Giants
05-10-2014, 03:28 PM
kobe did make all of them better. but they were also talented in their own right.

Agreed with this. It's 2014 anyway not 2010. 4 years ago all those players played key roles in helping us win the title.

bathroom_man
05-10-2014, 03:49 PM
See this is where many people will differ. I haven't heard outside of psd that his legacy is changed with that shot (not sure if you were implying it should be or not). Heck I haven't even seen non laker/kobe fans posting things like this. Yes Lebron needed his teammates help to win a title no doubt, but so have many stars in the past (like Kobe 2010).

In the 4th he had 16 points and 2 assists to keep his team in it even. In overtime he had two assists and two points. In the final 65 minutes of the series he had 55 points and 8 assists on good efficiency. So while a few people may decide to pick and "change his legacy" off of a teammate help him with a single shot, many will realize what he did to put them in position to win and take over the following game.

On the other hand Kobe needed his team to up their performance for 40 plus minutes to have a chance at the title. If that happens for Lebron in either game the Heat will be losing. I am not even trying to bash Kobe here as I give him credit as well for winning the title. Gasol was a huge factor in that series as well and people have questioned if he should have gotten finals mvp (personally I don't, but just saying). Lebron doesn't have that issue because he was by far the biggest contributor and the reason they won (despite your claim of one shot affecting his legacy).

If you want to know how players played in the "clutch" throughout the series, here are the 4th quarter shooting stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=MIA&opp_id=SAS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

Lebron's and some teammates

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2010&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=LAL&opp_id=BOS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=fga&c1comp=ge&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

Kobe's and some teammates.

Now once again this isn't to bash Kobe, and isn't the entire story of each series in any way. It is to show that each player needed help from their teammates to win. Both of these players deserve credit for winning both of their rings as the man. Kobe deserves his credit for the 3 rings when he was lighting it up next to Shaq as well. Everything needs context and we can't crucify a player for a couple of missed shots and needing a help from one player. I don't see how you can call needing ray to make one late shot a huge deal but not the fact a player went 6/24 in the game and overall played poorly in the 4th quarters not. Both players needed big contributions from their teams and got it.

2 different types of ending/situations. Why cant people differeniate that.

mngopher35
05-10-2014, 04:04 PM
2 different types of ending/situations. Why cant people differeniate that.

I did, but how can one affect a players legacy so much and not the other? Especially when for one of the situations it comes down to a long period of time with poor play. The other player steps up huge for a large majority and needs help on one shot (there is a difference here and I personally think it favors the one who plays great longer). Especially when looking at the "clutch" play throughout the series as a whole as pointed out above. You can ignore the context of an entire series and focus on one single shot if you want, but I won't.

Finals game 7's are thought to be huge for players careers and look what each did there. Yes one player needed his teammates to come through big late in an elimination game. The other player never had to worry about that because his team was coming through big throughout the entire game. Not only that but the player who needed that one shot also had great fourth quarters throughout to help lead to victories and the other was pretty poor in these situations while a couple teammates played very well.

bathroom_man
05-10-2014, 04:08 PM
Yeah. But ppl will look at" what have u done for me lately". Thats the arguement against lebron

bathroom_man
05-10-2014, 04:14 PM
I did, but how can one affect a players legacy so much and not the other? Especially when for one of the situations it comes down to a long period of time with poor play. The other player steps up huge for a large majority and needs help on one shot (there is a difference here and I personally think it favors the one who plays great longer). Especially when looking at the "clutch" play throughout the series as a whole as pointed out above. You can ignore the context of an entire series and focus on one single shot if you want, but I won't.

Finals game 7's are thought to be huge for players careers and look what each did there. Yes one player needed his teammates to come through big late in an elimination game. The other player never had to worry about that because his team was coming through big throughout the entire game. Not only that but the player who needed that one shot also had great fourth quarters throughout to help lead to victories and the other was pretty poor in these situations while a couple teammates played very well.

Yeah ppl aint gonna go back and look what they did or didnt do. They gunna look at, what happen at the end. And lebron miss the wide open 3 only to get a lucky off. Rebound for a 3 to tie.

I dont know but i think that affects ones legacy alot. Soneone please explain it cuz i cant find the right words. :-)

mngopher35
05-10-2014, 04:23 PM
Yeah ppl aint gonna go back and look what they did or didnt do. They gunna look at, what happen at the end. And lebron miss the wide open 3 only to get a lucky off. Rebound for a 3 to tie.

I dont know but i think that affects ones legacy alot. Soneone please explain it cuz i cant find the right words. :-)

umm if it is "lately" then his last finals game ended with 37, 12, and 4 with a "clutch" late basket to clinch the game. So really it is the "how can I bash Lebron" people who generally like to try and focus on that shot while ignoring everything else, even the lately part.

You say people wont look back at what they did or didn't do and that is kinda my point. A group of posters here do exactly that to bash Lebron on a regular basis. Outside of them pretty much everyone knows what they did or didn't do because they watched the games. This is shown by the credit given to Lebron in a lot of the all time rankings posted in that Duncan thread.

bathroom_man
05-10-2014, 05:03 PM
umm if it is "lately" then his last finals game ended with 37, 12, and 4 with a "clutch" late basket to clinch the game. So really it is the "how can I bash Lebron" people who generally like to try and focus on that shot while ignoring everything else, even the lately part.

You say people wont look back at what they did or didn't do and that is kinda my point. A group of posters here do exactly that to bash Lebron on a regular basis. Outside of them pretty much everyone knows what they did or didn't do because they watched the games. This is shown by the credit given to Lebron in a lot of the all time rankings posted in that Duncan thread.

Lebrons good outweighs his bad so its not his fault if they were gunna lose that game. But at the end of day, he is still 1-3 on finals. That goes to all superstars not just lebron

numba1CHANGsta
05-10-2014, 05:12 PM
Whats the point of this thread? Banished=banned, last time I checked the Knicks signed or are close to signing Odom, MWP is old but might sign somewhere, and Bynum has injury history but some dumb team will still sign him.

mngopher35
05-10-2014, 05:12 PM
Lebrons good outweighs his bad so its not his fault if they were gunna lose that game. But at the end of day, he is still 1-3 on finals. That goes to all superstars not just lebron

He is 2-2 in the finals and one of those losses was with a team that had no real chance (I mean what other teams have made the finals with Big Z and larry hughes type players as the next best options?). He had a historic game 5 vs. Detroit to get there, definitely not a negative year for him.

Also I don't see why making it to the finals and losing is worse than not making to the finals. Lebron has never lost in the first round of the playoffs, I wouldn't blame him more for losing after making it farther. Seems like a very odd way to look at things. Anyways my points from those other posts hold true still.

bathroom_man
05-10-2014, 05:21 PM
He is 2-2 in the finals and one of those losses was with a team that had no real chance (I mean what other teams have made the finals with Big Z and larry hughes type players as the next best options?). He had a historic game 5 vs. Detroit to get there, definitely not a negative year for him.

Also I don't see why making it to the finals and losing is worse than not making to the finals. Lebron has never lost in the first round of the playoffs, I wouldn't blame him more for losing after making it farther. Seems like a very odd way to look at things. Anyways my points from those other posts hold true still.

If he were to lose, hes 1-3. That yr lebron was great, and took a bunch of role players to the finals but he beat a over the hill pistons team with no larry brown. That was the only good team in the east. The cavs were a 50-32 and seeded 2nd. That is laughable

mngopher35
05-10-2014, 06:03 PM
If he were to lose, hes 1-3. That yr lebron was great, and took a bunch of role players to the finals but he beat a over the hill pistons team with no larry brown. That was the only good team in the east. The cavs were a 50-32 and seeded 2nd. That is laughable

Yes but he didn't, so he is 2-2.

What is laughable about what I said? They did not really have a chance in the finals vs. those spurs. Can you please name me the other teams that have won the finals with a Larry Hughes and Big Z as their next best players?

I looked at some of your recent posts to check because I was getting the feeling you might be one of the said laker/kobe fans I was talking about. You haven't been arguing my points yet still trying to point out negatives. I found this gem:


Another snoozefest series for both the spurs and heat. Just awesome rating. Hoping lebron will get ACL'ed

We can be done. I see where you stand on the Lebron James topic and you hate him enough to actually wish injury on him. There is no reason to hate someone you don't know to this extent and it shows me you likely can't be rational on this matter.

bathroom_man
05-10-2014, 06:17 PM
Yes but he didn't, so he is 2-2.

What is laughable about what I said? They did not really have a chance in the finals vs. those spurs. Can you please name me the other teams that have won the finals with a Larry Hughes and Big Z as their next best players?

I looked at some of your recent posts to check because I was getting the feeling you might be one of the said laker/kobe fans I was talking about. You haven't been arguing my points yet still trying to point out negatives. I found this gem:



We can be done. I see where you stand on the Lebron James topic and you hate him enough to actually wish injury on him. There is no reason to hate someone you don't know to this extent and it shows me you likely can't be rational on this matter.

Nothing u said is laughable . 50-32 second seed is. Dont get the wrong message. Why u be checking my other posts? And Sry u didnt figure out my sarcasm

Miltstar
05-10-2014, 06:53 PM
why are we talking about a bunch of players who barely even played this year?

CityofTreez
05-10-2014, 06:57 PM
Kobe played a major role in beating Portland and Sacramento. Arguably the best two teams to never win a title. He was the best two way player on the floor. The numbers he put up against the Kings can only be compared to LMA against the Rockets. Not to mention the routinely contending YOUNG Spurs, served them too on a regular basis....

Even you can't deny this, whoever your favorite player is never defeated such competition. Facts.

Not gonna lie, respect the hell out of Kibe after his series with the Kings. He played a helluva series even with Christie guarding him, who was one of the most gifted defensive players I could ever witness. But, from my memory, Shaq was the dominant force, and of course, Robert ****ing Horry sealed that series up for the Lakers!

I guess his stats speak for themselves, but Horry was the dagger in our hearts.

IKnowHoops
05-10-2014, 07:24 PM
Yes but he didn't, so he is 2-2.

What is laughable about what I said? They did not really have a chance in the finals vs. those spurs. Can you please name me the other teams that have won the finals with a Larry Hughes and Big Z as their next best players?

I looked at some of your recent posts to check because I was getting the feeling you might be one of the said laker/kobe fans I was talking about. You haven't been arguing my points yet still trying to point out negatives. I found this gem:



We can be done. I see where you stand on the Lebron James topic and you hate him enough to actually wish injury on him. There is no reason to hate someone you don't know to this extent and it shows me you likely can't be rational on this matter.

That was hilarious.

Kashmir13579
05-10-2014, 09:18 PM
Stupid thread

Kashmir13579
05-10-2014, 09:19 PM
Lol Kobe fans.... the worst

kobe4thewinbang
05-11-2014, 12:57 PM
Artest used to be a high profile scorer and tremendous defender. Then that big fight happened, which he's never recovered from publically. That being said, he was a great pickup by the Lakers and hit essentially the series-deciding 3 in Game 7 against the Celtics.

Odom is obviously weak mentally, but certainly helped the Lakers. Hopefully he finds the drive to get back into shape and looks forward to working for Phil Jackson again next season with the Knicks.

Bynum is the worst of the 3. He could've been the best center in the league, but his attitude is unbecoming and those knees are wrecked.

D_Rose1118
05-11-2014, 01:06 PM
Everytime some Laker haters bring up their latest championship run they always bring up Bynum, Odom, and MWP like they are hall of famers. Well Bynum just got kicked off his 3rd team in one season, Odom got dropped by the NBA AND the Kardashians, and my boy World Peace managed to somehow get dropped from the Knicks......the Knicks!!!!!!!

So what happened? Is it ok to finally admit that just maybe some certain player made them all better?......

Odom is a drug addict and has the Kardashian curse
Bynums knees are shot, and he has a bad attitude
Artest is 95 years old and was starting majorly decline when he was in LA

to say their success is on Kobe is almost as ridiculous as saying they carried the lakers to the titles

Tony_Starks
05-11-2014, 02:36 PM
Sorry, I've been busy, but simple question: when you lead a band of highly questionable characters to ultimate success doesn't the leader usually get the credit? Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Why not in Kobe's case?

Odom, Gasol, MWP, were all very talented before they got to LA but had all kind of question marks over them. Bynum was a kid that stayed hurt but was partying at the Playboy mansion. Remember that? Odom got suspended and damn near kicked out of the league his first year for substance abuse. Renember that? MWP? You already know.

Im simply saying please don't act like its a big huge coincidence they all played outstanding under a certain leader, especially when some haters biggest gripe is that this particular leader is selfish.....

5ass
05-11-2014, 02:58 PM
Sorry, I've been busy, but simple question: when you lead a band of highly questionable characters to ultimate success doesn't the leader usually get the credit? Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Why not in Kobe's case?

Odom, Gasol, MWP, were all very talented before they got to LA but had all kind of question marks over them. Bynum was a kid that stayed hurt but was partying at the Playboy mansion. Remember that? Odom got suspended and damn near kicked out of the league his first year for substance abuse. Renember that? MWP? You already know.

Im simply saying please don't act like its a big huge coincidence they all played outstanding under a certain leader, especially when some haters biggest gripe is that this particular leader is selfish.....

And that leader would be Phil Jackson.

mngopher35
05-11-2014, 03:01 PM
Sorry, I've been busy, but simple question: when you lead a band of highly questionable characters to ultimate success doesn't the leader usually get the credit? Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Why not in Kobe's case?

Odom, Gasol, MWP, were all very talented before they got to LA but had all kind of question marks over them. Bynum was a kid that stayed hurt but was partying at the Playboy mansion. Remember that? Odom got suspended and damn near kicked out of the league his first year for substance abuse. Renember that? MWP? You already know.

Im simply saying please don't act like its a big huge coincidence they all played outstanding under a certain leader, especially when some haters biggest gripe is that this particular leader is selfish.....

1. They all played great before coming to the lakers as well, don't forget that. Most of them not on great teams like the lakers but they all had talent and were good players.

2. A lot of times a coach will actually get the credit for "troubled" players and you guys had Phil. I don't see players getting much credit in this sense usually.

3. Kobe does get the credit for winning so I don't know what you are talking about at all. Most people have him in the 10 all time it seems, and it wouldn't be like that if he didn't get credit. He has both of the finals-mvps and also won and mvp with that group. He certainly gets much, much more credit than any of them (as stars usually do.

It is just very weird to create a thread like this, should we do it for all the greats to make sure they get credit? Luckily for us most fan bases like their TEAMS and don't have threads to try and belittle former players (or maybe they just respect that those players helped them get a title). O well, just a few of my thoughts in response. Probably a little harsh but I also don't understand why as a Laker fan you need to put down other players to prop up your one guy, especially years later when we all know many things have changed.

flea
05-11-2014, 03:03 PM
As a leader, Kobe was pretty awful for a superstar. That's probably why people are making fun of Kobephiles for this thread.

Tony_Starks
05-11-2014, 03:06 PM
And that leader would be Phil Jackson.

Bro I know you're a pretty dedicated hater, but can you just kindof steer clear from Laker/ Kobe threads?

No disrespect but what you bring to the table just derails any potential objective conversation regarding the topic.

Tony_Starks
05-11-2014, 03:17 PM
1. They all played great before coming to the lakers as well, don't forget that. Most of them not on great teams like the lakers but they all had talent and were good players.

2. A lot of times a coach will actually get the credit for "troubled" players and you guys had Phil. I don't see players getting much credit in this sense usually.

3. Kobe does get the credit for winning so I don't know what you are talking about at all. Most people have him in the 10 all time it seems, and it wouldn't be like that if he didn't get credit. He has both of the finals-mvps and also won and mvp with that group. He certainly gets much, much more credit than any of them (as stars usually do.

It is just very weird to create a thread like this, should we do it for all the greats to make sure they get credit? Luckily for us most fan bases like their TEAMS and don't have threads to try and belittle former players (or maybe they just respect that those players helped them get a title). O well, just a few of my thoughts in response. Probably a little harsh but I also don't understand why as a Laker fan you need to put down other players to prop up your one guy, especially years later when we all know many things have changed.

Fair point but the reason I created this thread is because I've never seen a top ten all time great get discredited as much as Kobe. People can call me a "Kobefile" or whatever cool new trendy name comes out but there's a lot of credible posters on here that completely disrespect that guy. Not you, but a lot. Don't even have him top 10!

I'm a Laker fan, before Kobe. Our legacy speaks for itself. But every now and again I address the hypocrisy of some fans.....

mngopher35
05-11-2014, 03:28 PM
Fair point but the reason I created this thread is because I've never seen a top ten all time great get discredited as much as Kobe. People can call me a "Kobefile" or whatever cool new trendy name comes out but there's a lot of credible posters on here that completely disrespect that guy. Not you, but a lot. Don't even have him top 10!

I'm a Laker fan, before Kobe. Our legacy speaks for itself. But every now and again I address the hypocrisy of some fans.....

Well on this site Lebron and Kobe will get disrespected non stop by both sides. I do see where you are coming from in that sense, just on the opposite end. I don't know if there will ever be a middle ground on these subjects for some people.

Totally understand the frustration of Kobe getting disrespected by some people though. Just seemed like a lets worship Kobe thread without taking the things I listed into context. As long as you can see what I was saying in that post, its all good.

5ass
05-11-2014, 04:14 PM
Bro I know you're a pretty dedicated hater, but can you just kindof steer clear from Laker/ Kobe threads?

No disrespect but what you bring to the table just derails any potential objective conversation regarding the topic.
How am I derailing the thread? Because I think the GOAT coach had more of impact on those players than Kobe?

Jamiecballer
05-11-2014, 05:19 PM
Sorry, I've been busy, but simple question: when you lead a band of highly questionable characters to ultimate success doesn't the leader usually get the credit? Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Why not in Kobe's case?

Odom, Gasol, MWP, were all very talented before they got to LA but had all kind of question marks over them. Bynum was a kid that stayed hurt but was partying at the Playboy mansion. Remember that? Odom got suspended and damn near kicked out of the league his first year for substance abuse. Renember that? MWP? You already know.

Im simply saying please don't act like its a big huge coincidence they all played outstanding under a certain leader, especially when some haters biggest gripe is that this particular leader is selfish.....

When has Kobe ever been the leader? Honest question.

Jackson was the leader. I see I've been beaten to the punch on that one.

flea
05-11-2014, 05:23 PM
Or Derek Fisher, or Shaq, etc. The whole gameplan for coaches on the Lakers was avoid letting Kobe get frustrated and turn into chucker mode. Just because you're a fine offensive player doesn't mean you aren't pouty. He's just like a lot of people who are good at what they do, but need to be managed.

clehmun
05-12-2014, 12:38 PM
To be fair, if Michael Jordan got credit as a leader for making Dennis Rodman a better player, focused and win (and Jordan does), then Kobe deserves the same credit for leading questionable characters like MWP, Bynum and Odom to success.

Does Kobe deserve all the credit? No. But neither does Jordan. Phil gets some of the credit in both scenarios as well.

clehmun
05-12-2014, 12:40 PM
When has Kobe ever been the leader? Honest question.

Jackson was the leader. I see I've been beaten to the punch on that one.

So all the credit goes to Phil Jackson, all the fault goes to Kobe. While Jordan who played under the same coach, gets all the leadership credit, at least more than the same Phil Jackson that took all of Kobe's credits.

Make sense.

BigCityofDreams
05-12-2014, 12:54 PM
So all the credit goes to Phil Jackson, all the fault goes to Kobe. While Jordan who played under the same coach, gets all the leadership credit, at least more than the same Phil Jackson that took all of Kobe's credits.

Make sense.

That's that Kobe hate logic. Everything that goes wrong is on him but he gets zero credit for when they succeed. He wins rings with Shaq and he is labeled a role player., He wins rings as the man and it's look how much help he had lol.

ManRam
05-12-2014, 01:02 PM
I think "leader" is something hard to define. In many ways Kobe was a great "leader". It certainly was via different methods than a lot of other guys I think we generally view as such, but he was an incredibly passionate guy and I think that often did bring out the best in players. It often came off as a bit abrasive and demanding, but people are all motivated by different things. Some people respond well to guys who bark at you and give you tough love. Some don't. He played a position and a role in a system where it was his individual scoring that mattered most. I think expecting him to be a guy who passed a ton and made a huge effort to get others involved is a bit foolish.

He did benefit early on from playing under Phil who was both experienced as hell and a tremendous locker room guy, as well as playing with a lot of vets who I think had a stabilizing influence on those early 2000s teams (Grant, Fox, Shaw, Harper, Foster...even Fisher who was a bit young). Obviously there's a lot to pick out later on as he grew older and became the undeniable star he was, but I can't sit here and say the guy wasn't a leader. He was the leader of at least 2 championship teams. Fisher was there later on again and is a tremendous leader in a more traditional sense. Lamar was a tremendous locker room guy, and balanced things out in a great way. I think on the successful teams there was always a great mix of personalities that allowed Kobe's to mostly be effective.

The most important relationship post-Shaq was with Pau and all things considered that was a great one. Some tough love, but it worked, and that's all that matters. I think he grew a lot as a "leader" later on. Leadership is more than just passing the ball to guys and being buddy-buddy with everyone; it certainly can be being demanding, figuring out which buttons are the right ones to push and doing whatever you can to win. Kobe himself has said that being a "winner" and a "good teammate" don't go hand in hand and ultimately the former is all that matters. So if you're not up to his standards as a competitor he'll let you know. He's vocal, and that's great. The most obvious example being when he publicly told Pau to "put on his big-boy pants" or whatever. He's more of a tyrant than a democratic ruler, but hey, it works.

I'll say it...5 rings speaks volumes (to an extent).

L8kers4life
05-12-2014, 02:49 PM
How am I derailing the thread? Because I think the GOAT coach had more of impact on those players than Kobe?

You gave the Goat coach all the credit and you gave 0 credit to Kobe, why is it his teams, especially his championship teams as well as the GOAT coach respect Kobe, but you refuse to?

L8kers4life
05-12-2014, 02:53 PM
That's that Kobe hate logic. Everything that goes wrong is on him but he gets zero credit for when they succeed. He wins rings with Shaq and he is labeled a role player., He wins rings as the man and it's look how much help he had lol.

Great post, it's crazy how much hate is on this site for Kobe, nobody talks about his work ethic and drive and how it inspires teammates, as well as the respect for Kobe the coaches around the league and the GOAT coach have for him. But on this site, if you defend Kobe in any way, your a Kobephile, F*&kin joke.

Jamiecballer
05-12-2014, 02:57 PM
So all the credit goes to Phil Jackson, all the fault goes to Kobe. While Jordan who played under the same coach, gets all the leadership credit, at least more than the same Phil Jackson that took all of Kobe's credits.

Make sense.
no it doesn't make sense. but you are putting words into my mouth so why the hell should it.

NYMetros
05-12-2014, 02:59 PM
Everytime some Laker haters bring up their latest championship run they always bring up Bynum, Odom, and MWP like they are hall of famers. Well Bynum just got kicked off his 3rd team in one season, Odom got dropped by the NBA AND the Kardashians, and my boy World Peace managed to somehow get dropped from the Knicks......the Knicks!!!!!!!

So what happened? Is it ok to finally admit that just maybe some certain player made them all better?......

Lebron > Kobe

Everyone knows it. Lebron took a bunch of scrubs and a horrible head coach to the NBA finals in 07. now that he has teammates comparable to what Kobe's had he's winning ring after ring. Lebron will be a top 5 player when it's all said and done while Kobe is fringe top 10.

DaLakerz Rulz
05-12-2014, 03:18 PM
Lebron > Kobe

Everyone knows it. Lebron took a bunch of scrubs and a horrible head coach to the NBA finals in 07. now that he has teammates comparable to what Kobe's had he's winning ring after ring. Lebron will be a top 5 player when it's all said and done while Kobe is fringe top 10.

Mike James > Kobe > MJ > LeBron

Sandman
05-12-2014, 03:20 PM
Fishing for compliments for Kobe? Why do you feel the need to do that?

lol this.

Ebbs
05-12-2014, 03:21 PM
So you think the best way to defend the Lakers last run is to talk about players like 4 years after?

:laugh: the op of this thread is dense

flea
05-12-2014, 04:24 PM
ManRam was a lot more diplomatic than I figured he would be. Kobe was a very talented player, a top 15 player almost without question, and a top 3 SG without question. Nobody is saying different in this thread I'm pretty sure. But just because you are those things doesn't make you a good leader. Just because you work at your craft doesn't mean you're a good leader.

Kobe was borderline uncoachable at times, ran his teammate (who was better than him) out of town, tried to run himself out of town, and all that is without even mentioning his troubling personal problems. How is that a good leader? Especially when we compare him to actual good leaders, like Derek Fisher (whom I have my qualms with but I respect his character).

Now on to Michael. People bring up Michael, because I guess Kobephiles have a Napoleon complex about living in his shadow, but Michael wasn't a great leader either. He was just ****ing good at basketball. Petulant, whiny, a jerk, abusive, degenerate gambler, and you can guarantee whenever he talks about anything but basketball it's going to be pretty stupid. But he was Michael and we love him for it.

nickdymez
05-12-2014, 06:06 PM
The hate in this thread (From the usual haters) is at an all time high. We get it guys, Kobe was an overratted role player. Lebron can lead any team all by himself with no help. We get it

RLundi
05-12-2014, 07:38 PM
Honestly? Pathetic thread.

BigCityofDreams
05-12-2014, 07:52 PM
Great post, it's crazy how much hate is on this site for Kobe, nobody talks about his work ethic and drive and how it inspires teammates, as well as the respect for Kobe the coaches around the league and the GOAT coach have for him. But on this site, if you defend Kobe in any way, your a Kobephile, F*&kin joke.

Not just on here but in general. Some of that is on Kobe because his personality isn't warm and opening but ppl talk as if he's some guy that just lucked into the career he had. He has flaws and he's far from perfect but he was one of the best to ever do it and sometimes that gets overlooked.

mightybosstone
05-12-2014, 10:09 PM
I completely fail to see the point. Just because great players eventually age and stop being great does not mean they weren't great at some point. If Michael Jordan stepped on the court today, he'd be lucky to get any minutes in an NBA rotation. That doesn't mean he wasn't still the greatest player to ever play the game. Also, lack of longevity does not negate peak ability.

Are Odom, Bynum or Artest Hall of Famers? Probably not. But at their peaks with LA, they were very, very good 3rd or 4th options.

Ebbs
05-13-2014, 04:55 PM
The hate in this thread (From the usual haters) is at an all time high. We get it guys, Kobe was an overratted role player. Lebron can lead any team all by himself with no help. We get it

Can we ban this guy? Save us the drama. Go watch mean girls.