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Wade n Fade
05-07-2014, 07:02 PM
What are your thoughts on basketball analytics? I love statistical analysis and I think it makes the game more interesting since you are using new technology with mathematical concepts and analysis to study the game and make it easier to build a team based on a per possession and per game basis. I can understand that some people dislike it because sports are meant to be a different nuance in life that brings enjoyment rather than academics. Some people are also put off by it because if they don't understand the stats, they feel like they might not be smart as well. I am not saying people aren't smart, but if someone constantly makes you feel out of place, your chances of being motivated to learn take a sharp downturn. Just my two cents. I always enjoy listening to the Henry Abbotts, Tom Habestrohs, etc.

Jamiecballer
05-07-2014, 07:03 PM
The only people who don't like it are fans of hero ball and/or homers

Wade n Fade
05-07-2014, 07:11 PM
The only people who don't like it are fans of hero ball and/or homers

Yeah, I see that a bit with Kobe fans. For years, the misconception that Kobe was an ultimate clutch player. I know that he has hit big shots, but there are guys that are more accurate than him in the clutch. That's not a knock against Kobe, but rather it's just a telling stat showing that some people need to redefine what a clutch player is. I consider someone clutch with great success late in games. Clutch doesn't mean just hitting big shots. It can be ball handling, rebounding, efficiency.

I was listening to Lebatard today and Habestroh says that Miami's total scoring % is the highest in the history of the NBA. That shows that Lebron and Wade's shot efficiency is higher with a lower volume of shots. In my case, if I have 10 shots per game, I want someone to take the 10 best shots possible including shot creating and what the defense allows the person to take, so the deeper we delve into analytics, the easier it is to create a per possession basis.

mdm692
05-07-2014, 07:22 PM
I like them but you can't focus on just analytics when building a team. You ha e to combine the analytics along with the eye test. Sometimes there are certain areas of the game that a player like Kobe can impact that can not be measured with stats. Having a perfect balance is key.

Jamiecballer
05-07-2014, 07:26 PM
It will continue to gain more traction but as long as scoring is overemphasized by our culture, and particularly mono e mono basketball, it will always generate stiff resistance from a large subset of basketball fans, that is until it favors their guy.

JasonJohnHorn
05-07-2014, 07:33 PM
It's a great tool that can be used well to enhance the eye test. I think you need to watch a player, obviously. Like on paper, before the season started, most would have thought that J-Smoove, Moose and Mr. Drummond would make for a great front court based on their stats (I was one of them), but some said that they wouldn't have great chemistry. Those people appear to be right (though I hold out hope that the right coach can correct that).

I still don't trust advance stats for determining defense. I think that is something you really have to watch to get, but all in in all, I think ever GM should be incorporting that stuff in with their scouting. If the Pistons had bothered doing that they'd have Klay Thomspon and Trey Burke in their back court right now.

Chronz
05-07-2014, 07:38 PM
Like on paper, before the season started, most would have thought that J-Smoove, Moose and Mr. Drummond would make for a great front court based on their stats (I was one of them),

Come again?

xnick5757
05-07-2014, 07:40 PM
It's a great tool that can be used well to enhance the eye test. I think you need to watch a player, obviously. Like on paper, before the season started, most would have thought that J-Smoove, Moose and Mr. Drummond would make for a great front court based on their stats (I was one of them), but some said that they wouldn't have great chemistry. Those people appear to be right (though I hold out hope that the right coach can correct that).

I still don't trust advance stats for determining defense. I think that is something you really have to watch to get, but all in in all, I think ever GM should be incorporting that stuff in with their scouting. If the Pistons had bothered doing that they'd have Klay Thomspon and Trey Burke in their back court right now.

:confused:

all of them occupy the same area of the court offensively.... (or should - JSmith thinks he's a small forward but shoots like a center)

Wade n Fade
05-07-2014, 08:21 PM
Good point, chemistry is often ignored. It's unquantifiable because you are expected to tolerate teammates, but not like them. Chemistry is the reason why the Pacers are just horrific.

Crackadalic
05-07-2014, 08:35 PM
I think basketball is the only sport where a team with a lot of talent don't always win it all and the advance metrics of today helps give a better insight on players pros and cons and who can fit well together

D-Leethal
05-07-2014, 08:51 PM
What are your thoughts on basketball analytics? I love statistical analysis and I think it makes the game more interesting since you are using new technology with mathematical concepts and analysis to study the game and make it easier to build a team based on a per possession and per game basis. I can understand that some people dislike it because sports are meant to be a different nuance in life that brings enjoyment rather than academics. Some people are also put off by it because if they don't understand the stats, they feel like they might not be smart as well. I am not saying people aren't smart, but if someone constantly makes you feel out of place, your chances of being motivated to learn take a sharp downturn. Just my two cents. I always enjoy listening to the Henry Abbotts, Tom Habestrohs, etc.

I'd say many skeptics are the ones who actually understand the nuances of the game well enough to know it can't be isolated into separate parts. Look, there is plenty of wonderful ways to analytically dissect the game, but none of those ways are ever discussed on here (mostly because we don't have access the cameras, the trackers, the aggregators and thus the dissected results that the NBA franchises do), and "Advanced stats" has become the equivalent of "efficient scoring > every other aspect of basketball). Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon so we start comparing TS% and WS like THATS supposed to be a high level usage of basketball analytics.

There is no legitimate stat that properly defines a player and his contribution to winning games. And every player's impact, statline is directly molded by the synergy of the guys around them, the system they are in, the mesh of skillsets on the squad. The hardon for individual has eliminated any thought process around the team aspect of the game. Its slowly coming back around here. But talking basketball philosophy around here has been supplanted by brainless measuring of your statistical cocks. Rarely do you see an intelligent conversation about what actually goes down on the court and instead have threads of "omgz CP3 set the record for single game PPP" after a flukey 3 point barrage in a blowout.

What is discussed on here isn't basketball analytics, its mindless spreadsheet gazing trying to numerically define individuals like you do in baseball.

D-Leethal
05-07-2014, 08:53 PM
The only people who don't like it are fans of hero ball and/or homers

Plenty of respectable people who get paid a hell of a lot more money than you do to be employed by NBA basketball teams for their knowledge of the game are skeptics of the direct of the "movement" going on too. I'm just glad NBA teams aren't dumb enough to try sit there and compare win shares like they do on here. I guess simpletons will believe whatever any nerd with a degree will tell them. The only guys who prop up their math formulas are the guys who created them, and then the brainwashed nitwits on this forum follow in a trance like braindead zombies.

P&GRealist
05-07-2014, 08:58 PM
It equates to championships, right?

D-Leethal
05-07-2014, 09:08 PM
You want to talk analytics. I wanna know what screen roll combinations are most effective, I want to know exactly where on the court those screen roll combinations are more effective, where to place shooters around the arc to supplement my best players sweet spots, I want to know what each extra swing pass does to my shooting %s, I want to know how my C defends the Cs in the post, I also want to know how he fares against small ball jump shooting Cs, I want to know what PG-C combination defends the pick and roll the best on my squad, I want to know where my best player is getting double teamed, where those doubles are coming from, and design my sets to make them pay for sending the double from that area.

Teams are using analytics to do what normally takes hours upon hours upon hours of watching film would do. Its not changing the way we look at the game. The changes in rules is the reason we are seeing the 3 ball, small ball movement. Mike D'Antoni himself said this like yesterday.

Analytics are a wonderful thing to dissect and improve your team. But nobody talks analytics here. We'd rather dumb it down to flawed comparison tools that ignore the 5 guys on a string team aspect of the game.

Jamiecballer
05-07-2014, 09:13 PM
I think basketball is the only sport where a team with a lot of talent don't always win it all and the advance metrics of today helps give a better insight on players pros and cons and who can fit well together

Bingo cunnilingus

Jamiecballer
05-07-2014, 09:19 PM
Plenty of respectable people who get paid a hell of a lot more money than you do to be employed by NBA basketball teams for their knowledge of the game are skeptics of the direct of the "movement" going on too. I'm just glad NBA teams aren't dumb enough to try sit there and compare win shares like they do on here. I guess simpletons will believe whatever any nerd with a degree will tell them. The only guys who prop up their math formulas are the guys who created them, and then the brainwashed nitwits on this forum follow in a trance like braindead zombies.

Uh huh. You left out the earth is flat, cigarettes arent harmful to our health, cellphones cause cancer and other primitive modes of thinking.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-07-2014, 09:22 PM
I like it when people that stat geeks don't watch the game and only use stats.

Sadds The Gr8
05-07-2014, 10:02 PM
I like and use them but the people that are sooooooo hung up on them and take them as gospel come off just as annoying and twat-like as the ignorant people who don't consider analytics at all.

Kaner
05-08-2014, 06:21 AM
I think basketball is the only sport where a team with a lot of talent don't always win it all and the advance metrics of today helps give a better insight on players pros and cons and who can fit well together

really? I've always felt that basketball is the sport that most consistently has the best team winning which consequentially is why we've had so many dynastys.

If any sport doesn't always have the most talented team winning its Hockey. With Hockey if a goalie gets hot they can carry an inferior team to a Stanley cup or even if a team just gets a couple lucky bounces that could be the difference. For basketball though 7 games is an awful lot of time of consistent back and forth scoring opportunities to figure out which team is better.

2-ONE-5
05-08-2014, 12:43 PM
The only people who don't like it are fans of hero ball and/or homers

im neither and im not really a big fan of em

Tony_Starks
05-08-2014, 01:09 PM
Two of the biggest self professed analytic guys, Morey from the Rockets and Hollinger from Memphis, are sitting home watching the playoffs just like us.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-08-2014, 01:23 PM
Two of the biggest self professed analytic guys, Morey from the Rockets and Hollinger from Memphis, are sitting home watching the playoffs just like us.

You know how heavy teams like the Heat invest in analytics?

Tony_Starks
05-08-2014, 03:48 PM
You know how heavy teams like the Heat invest in analytics?

Nope, I sure don't. Re-read my comment. "Self professed."

Jamiecballer
05-08-2014, 07:17 PM
im neither and im not really a big fan of em

Who are your favorite players for the record

nickdymez
05-09-2014, 04:02 AM
People who've never played basketball like analytics

jerellh528
05-09-2014, 04:40 AM
There's definitely a use for analytics in today's game. I'm still mostly on the other side of the fence though

jerellh528
05-09-2014, 05:14 AM
Plenty of respectable people who get paid a hell of a lot more money than you do to be employed by NBA basketball teams for their knowledge of the game are skeptics of the direct of the "movement" going on too. I'm just glad NBA teams aren't dumb enough to try sit there and compare win shares like they do on here. I guess simpletons will believe whatever any nerd with a degree will tell them. The only guys who prop up their math formulas are the guys who created them, and then the brainwashed nitwits on this forum follow in a trance like braindead zombies.

I agree, although I think there is a place for them
In today's game.

bhavr
05-10-2014, 12:36 AM
overrated