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P&GRealist
05-06-2014, 03:47 PM
After the firing of Mark Jackson, the whole Scalabrine thing, the Jerry West not allowed at practices and team events rumors, and the Herman assistant coach audio recordings, are the Warriors, ownership, front office executives and franchise as a whole corrupt?

There are many that are saying that one of the main reasons Mark Jackson was let go was because he was 'too spiritual' and religious. He adopted that Phil Jackson good aura type of approach with these group of young guys for 3 yrs. however, we all know that whole zen aura spiritual approach is frowned upon (see Jim buss and Phil Jackson).


It's like the Warriors FO don't want a figure that may bring his own personal spirituality in aiding the team and franchise's growth. That jealousy and unprofessionalism and narrow-minded ness creates a real bad stigma on a franchise.

lincecum=future
05-06-2014, 03:51 PM
Not sure what you're trying to convey really. I don't think corrupt is the right word here.

Gibby23
05-06-2014, 03:57 PM
This post is full of randon thoughts, from PJ's Zen and Jackson's religion.

P&GRealist
05-06-2014, 03:58 PM
This post is full of randon thoughts, from PJ's Zen and Jackson's religion.

It's the organization's way of thinking. Was making a parallel with the corruptness of Lakers FO.

Goose17
05-06-2014, 04:04 PM
I feel he was fired because the front office doesn't like him. Which is what I take issue with.

He wasn't fired because of a lack of coaching ability, he wasn't fired because the players didn't get on with him. He was fired because Lacob doesn't like him, plain and simple.

You don't have to like all of your employees you just have to respect them. You should do what is best for the team, even if you don't like it.

Gibby23
05-06-2014, 04:06 PM
It's the organization's way of thinking. Was making a parallel with the corruptness of Lakers FO.

corruptness? Lol... The Lakers kept him around as long as they could but he wanted too much power. Its like owning a business and an employee wants to own some of it or make managment decisions. Jerry wasn't going to give up a piece of what he worked haed to build.

L8kers4life
05-06-2014, 04:10 PM
After the firing of Mark Jackson, the whole Scalabrine thing, the Jerry West not allowed at practices and team events rumors, and the Herman assistant coach audio recordings, are the Warriors, ownership, front office executives and franchise as a whole corrupt?

There are many that are saying that one of the main reasons Mark Jackson was let go was because he was 'too spiritual' and religious. He adopted that Phil Jackson good aura type of approach with these group of young guys for 3 yrs. however, we all know that whole zen aura spiritual approach is frowned upon (see Jim buss and Phil Jackson).


It's like the Warriors FO don't want a figure that may bring his own personal spirituality in aiding the team and franchise's growth. That jealousy and unprofessionalism and narrow-minded ness creates a real bad stigma on a franchise.


First off this is way too random, if the thing with Jerry West being at team events and practices, share the article, because I remember PJ not allowing Jerry West in the locker room, but have not heard of this in Golden state. Also Phil's Zen approach has nothing to do with Phil not coaching the Lakers, Phil wanted control and the Buss Children promised they would not give Phil that control, so what are you talking about, if this is the case share your refrences.

Goose17
05-06-2014, 04:22 PM
First off this is way too random, if the thing with Jerry West being at team events and practices, share the article, because I remember PJ not allowing Jerry West in the locker room, but have not heard of this in Golden state.

Yeah (Mark) Jackson asked him to stop attending practices. Just google it, article should be less than a week old.

P&GRealist
05-06-2014, 04:24 PM
You guys are not getting.

This is the case of the coach becoming a larger figure than the organization. The city, fans and players loved Mark in GS, much like Phil in LA. It's these proud egotistical owners like the Jimbaco and Lacobs of the world that refuse to be second fiddle to the coach of the team. They want to be the reason the team has success with a certain culture, not the coach.

It's a case of ownership inferiority complex.

Gibby23
05-06-2014, 04:28 PM
You guys are not getting.

This is the case of the coach becoming a larger figure than the organization. The city, fans and players loved Mark in GS, much like Phil in LA. It's these proud egotistical owners like the Jimbaco and Lacobs of the world that refuse to be second fiddle to the coach of the team. They want to be the reason the team has success with a certain culture, not the coach.

It's a case of ownership inferiority complex.

But all your facts are wrong. The Lakers took a back seat and paid Phil 10 to 12 million a year (Look up the highest paid coach now). He wanted a bigger role, he wanted to call more shots and a hand in running the team. He wanted to trade Kobe for Marion back in the day, but the Lakers didn't. They put up with him and he was old and burnt out by the time we lost to Dallas. Howard didn't leave because we didn't have Phil, he left because we had Kobe.

mike_noodles
05-06-2014, 04:30 PM
Not sure what you're trying to convey really. I don't think corrupt is the right word here.

My thoughts exactly. Dysfunctional seems like a better word to use.

P&GRealist
05-06-2014, 04:39 PM
But all your facts are wrong. The Lakers took a back seat and paid Phil 10 to 12 million a year (Look up the highest paid coach now). He wanted a bigger role, he wanted to call more shots and a hand in running the team. He wanted to trade Kobe for Marion back in the day, but the Lakers didn't. They put up with him and he was old and burnt out by the time we lost to Dallas. Howard didn't leave because we didn't have Phil, he left because we had Kobe.

Dr. buss was the one paying Phil. Once Buss got sick and hospitalized, it went all downhill from there when Jimbo took over.

I can understand if you're a delusional Jimbo supporter. It's okay.

P&GRealist
05-06-2014, 04:40 PM
My thoughts exactly. Dysfunctional seems like a better word to use.

Ok, dysfunctional.

Gibby23
05-06-2014, 04:45 PM
Dr. buss was the one paying Phil. Once Buss got sick and hospitalized, it went all downhill from there when Jimbo took over.

I can understand if you're a delusional Jimbo supporter. It's okay.

Dr. Buss made the call not to hire Phil after they fired Mike Brown. Dr. Buss also didn't want Phil in the front office or have anything to do with running the Lakers. I see you don't know much about the Lakers but you write down small things you remember and try to make sense of it.

L8kers4life
05-06-2014, 04:52 PM
Yeah (Mark) Jackson asked him to stop attending practices. Just google it, article should be less than a week old.

Thanks I was not aware he did that.

AthletesForever
05-06-2014, 04:53 PM
I'm probably completely off base with this but I wonder if Mark Jackson would still have a job if he was white.

asandhu23
05-06-2014, 06:07 PM
I'm probably completely off base with this but I wonder if Mark Jackson would still have a job if he was white.

What the **** does this have to do with anything?

JasonJohnHorn
05-06-2014, 08:03 PM
I feel bad for Warriors fans. The franchise is poorly run. They burn bridges. This goes to show that even when you get good players, and good coaches and a good GM, an ownership can fawk all those things up. You need to be a good owner to build a good team, and the Warriors to not have that. It is the reason why this is the first time they have two straight seasons with 45 or more wins in 20+ yeras.

TrueFan420
05-06-2014, 10:04 PM
I'm probably completely off base with this but I wonder if Mark Jackson would still have a job if he was white.

No it does not have anything to do with this so don't bring that in here

TrueFan420
05-06-2014, 10:09 PM
I feel bad for Warriors fans. The franchise is poorly run. They burn bridges. This goes to show that even when you get good players, and good coaches and a good GM, an ownership can fawk all those things up. You need to be a good owner to build a good team, and the Warriors to not have that. It is the reason why this is the first time they have two straight seasons with 45 or more wins in 20+ yeras.

The franchise is not poorly run. It's done nothing but make fantastic moves under our new ownership.

Jackson was overrated in my book. He's a good coach but not one to take us over the top. And for all the talk about how good of a motivator he was I have never in my life seen a team so talented come out and sleep walk through so many games in my life before. Including a freaking 40 point blowout in the playoffs.

The move is fine as long as we get a good coach to replace him. My list would be JVG and Thibs as front runners. Would be interested if Sloan was down to coach agin but would need to be clued into (well at least the organization) as to his health and how long he'd intent to coach. Would he travel or take off like Phill. Who would be his assistant and so on.

kobe4thewinbang
05-06-2014, 10:14 PM
I think the team just wants a better coach. Yes, Jackson stands out but he was by no means phenomenal. It is a risky move because I don't know who's out there that could do better but I think the teams wants to be reach the next level.

:shrug:

tredigs
05-07-2014, 01:30 AM
Lmao. You people are clueless.

Chronz
05-07-2014, 01:34 AM
The franchise is not poorly run. It's done nothing but make fantastic moves under our new ownership.

Jackson was overrated in my book. He's a good coach but not one to take us over the top. And for all the talk about how good of a motivator he was I have never in my life seen a team so talented come out and sleep walk through so many games in my life before. Including a freaking 40 point blowout in the playoffs.

The move is fine as long as we get a good coach to replace him. My list would be JVG and Thibs as front runners. Would be interested if Sloan was down to coach agin but would need to be clued into (well at least the organization) as to his health and how long he'd intent to coach. Would he travel or take off like Phill. Who would be his assistant and so on.

Very well put. GS is the next power team, they just need someone to instill a motion based offense to utilize so many great passers.

COOLbeans
05-07-2014, 01:41 AM
This was a dumb move by the organization. And there certainly were external factors that contributed to Mark Jackson's 'short leash,' by some fans and the ownership.

TrueFan420
05-07-2014, 02:31 AM
This was a dumb move by the organization. And there certainly were external factors that contributed to Mark Jackson's 'short leash,' by some fans and the ownership.

Please enlighten me as to what these external factors are?

kingsdelez24
05-07-2014, 02:40 AM
After the firing of Mark Jackson, the whole Scalabrine thing, the Jerry West not allowed at practices and team events rumors, and the Herman assistant coach audio recordings, are the Warriors, ownership, front office executives and franchise as a whole corrupt?

There are many that are saying that one of the main reasons Mark Jackson was let go was because he was 'too spiritual' and religious. He adopted that Phil Jackson good aura type of approach with these group of young guys for 3 yrs. however, we all know that whole zen aura spiritual approach is frowned upon (see Jim buss and Phil Jackson).


It's like the Warriors FO don't want a figure that may bring his own personal spirituality in aiding the team and franchise's growth. That jealousy and unprofessionalism and narrow-minded ness creates a real bad stigma on a franchise.

Mark Jackson is also a pastor, his aura is more of a preacher aura of anything

P&GRealist
05-07-2014, 03:32 AM
Mark Jackson is also a pastor, his aura is more of a preacher aura of anything
You know, someone pointed out the racism thing.

What if that holds true? I mean, typically (and I don't intend to generalize) but it's the African American priests/pastors that are the preacher aura type of figures.

I don't know. Something fishy about Lacob and company. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up trying to hire someone like Steve Kerr or even Chris Mullin (who I think has some position with the organization currently?) as the next coach.

Blitzace137
05-07-2014, 03:37 AM
I'm probably completely off base with this but I wonder if Mark Jackson would still have a job if he was white.

it had nothing to do with his skin color.

Blitzace137
05-07-2014, 03:38 AM
Mark Jackson's way and the highway


Mark Jackson placed enough oomph behind the metaphor to make it seem almost literal.

“I’m fighting for my life,” Jackson said after the Golden State Warriors' Game 6 win against the Los Angeles Clippers, before clarifying: “basketball life.”

Five days later, Jackson suffered basketball death by the hand of an ownership group that had enough. He was smart, funny and charismatic, but also stubborn, abrasive and bellicose. Jackson thrived on having enemies. Eventually, he’d made the wrong ones.

The 2013-14 Warriors coaching staff has ended like a Shakespearean play, with plots and counterplots leading to death for all. Not even the video guy survived the final act.

Mike Malone was able to escape Jackson’s ire with a head-coaching gig in Sacramento, but others were not so lucky. Jackson and Jackson’s loyalists (Pete Myers and Lindsey Hunter) clashed with Brian Scalabrine, which resulted in Scalabrine’s D-League exile. Then Jackson’s group clashed with Darren Erman, leading to Erman secretly recording what became his own pink slip.


Jackson isn’t to blame for everything that happened in these quarrels, but his “us against them” ethos likely exacerbated the rifts.

While it’s true Jackson got the players on his side -- valuable allies to have -- Jackson’s other alliances may have hurt him.

The September introduction of Hunter, a friend of Jackson’s, was regarded as a destabilizing force, according to multiple sources. This marks the third consecutive time his hiring has coincided with a head coach getting fired within a year. Hunter had a reputation as an undermining individual from his days in Chicago and Phoenix. While he did not sabotage Jackson specifically, he made life difficult for others on staff.

It’s quite possible Jackson couldn’t have survived even with a cohesive coaching staff.

It all started off on the wrong foot, with Jackson deciding to coach the Warriors while living in Los Angeles and presiding over his church as pastor. Management found this arrangement less than ideal, but Jackson flat out refused to reconsider.

Being a pastor meant a lot to him, and he wasn’t giving it up for anything. Though he claimed an Oakland apartment, his family lived in Los Angeles and he spent a majority of the offseason there. It was the first of many instances when ownership perspective was met with a firm rebuke.

Jackson just wasn’t a compromiser, and perhaps his players loved that about him. With ownership, such an attitude could only go so far. Bosses generally like to have their input listened to at the very least.

The firing has taught us a few things about Joe Lacob's group, if not a few things about the new class of NBA owners in general. We’ve learned 51 wins is not enough for everybody. Lacob is heavily involved in team operations and expected a top-four playoff seed.

We’ve also learned that the Warriors aren’t the New York Knicks. Stephen Curry might be a budding superstar, but he doesn’t get to hire and fire coaches. Perhaps this Jackson firing will harm the relationship between Curry and management, but Warriors brass is willing to take that risk. That’s bold, maybe hubristically bold, but Lacob didn’t buy this team to live in fear of his employees.

The Lacob group wanted to be in charge of the operation that it, in theory, controls. It isn’t alone, either. To quote Kevin Arnovitz’s annual rundown of the top coaching candidates, “League execs insist there is no consideration more important in hiring a head coach than whether he conforms to the sensibility of ownership -- not personal background, whiteboard skills, media relations, city or even pedigree.”

Jackson didn’t conform, and now he’s gone. Is that fair? Fairness is beside the point in a hypercompetitive environment where tenures are short and glory is fleeting.

Jackson probably could have avoided the fork in the road that led to this, but he chose to do it his way. He worked a second job in Southern California, emphatically flaunted his faith and hired less than highly regarded friends. Maybe he needed to make these kinds of choices to be successful, but he wasn’t successful enough to validate his decisions in the eyes of management.

If you’re going to do it your way, you need to win big. Jackson didn't.

Blitzace137
05-07-2014, 03:38 AM
^^^ I thought the article was a good read.

Saddletramp
05-07-2014, 05:23 AM
Never mind. Just realized this was a troll thread by a POS troll.

COOLbeans
05-07-2014, 10:31 AM
.

COOLbeans
05-07-2014, 10:33 AM
Please enlighten me as to what these external factors are?

I think there were definitely some cultural differences between Mark Jackson, some of the fan base and ownership. This relates to a whole host of things, but I'd be wasting my time discussing it on psd.

mavwar53
05-07-2014, 11:01 AM
IMO it is as simple as this, Jackson doesn't get along with many people except players, starting from last year he and mike Malone would go weeks without talking, same this year with scal. Joe Lacob's son Kirk is the assistant GM, they would go weeks without talking.

If you don't get along with many people you work with every day you are not going to last long, it's pretty clear in the above facts that there is one common denominator and that is Jackson.

TrueFan420
05-07-2014, 11:10 AM
I think there were definitely some cultural differences between Mark Jackson, some of the fan base and ownership. This relates to a whole host of things, but I'd be wasting my time discussing it on psd.

Please do elaborate

COOLbeans
05-07-2014, 11:25 AM
Please do elaborate

For what?

COOLbeans
05-07-2014, 11:36 AM
IMO it is as simple as this, Jackson doesn't get along with many people except players, starting from last year he and mike Malone would go weeks without talking, same this year with scal. Joe Lacob's son Kirk is the assistant GM, they would go weeks without talking.

If you don't get along with many people you work with every day you are not going to last long, it's pretty clear in the above facts that there is one common denominator and that is Jackson.

There were definitely some external factors and some internal strife that I believe were exacerbated by extreme cultural differences between Mark Jackson's black preacher persona and the highly elitist corporate structure of the Warriors organization.

I don't think they fired him because he was black or a preacher, but there's a possibility that Jackson's 'style' was counterintuitive to the Warriors corporate culture.

TrueFan420
05-07-2014, 11:47 AM
For what?

The only way to learn is to hear more contrasting ideas which either challenge what you believe or strength what you believe. I'd like to hear what you think they are.

COOLbeans
05-07-2014, 11:55 AM
The only way to learn is to hear more contrasting ideas which either challenge what you believe or strength what you believe. I'd like to hear what you think they are.

I definitely believe there were some cultural differences. Stephen A, whether you like him or not, this morning gave a good explanation of the cultural differences. I'm just now hearing his explanation and I observed those differences on my own.