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View Full Version : Raptors and Casey agree in principle to 3 year deal



GodsSon
05-05-2014, 06:34 PM
Doug Smith: RaptorsVerified account
‏@SmithRaps
Raptors have agreement in principle with Dwane Casey on a three-year deal, according to sources

https://twitter.com/SmithRaps/status/463445159116820480


That didn't take long...

Freakazoid
05-05-2014, 06:35 PM
Wonder if Masai retains Nurse and Bayno...

GodsSon
05-05-2014, 06:38 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski ✔ @WojYahooNBA
Follow
Toronto has reached agreement on a three-year contract extension with coach Dwane Casey, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

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North Yorker
05-05-2014, 06:39 PM
I'm fine with it. He pretty much got the most out of the players and they seem to like him. We didn't get blown out all year (or at least since the Gay deal). Now if Masai can get him some more talent to work with, we can start evaluating him more intensively as we try to build a contender.

Definitely changed the culture since he got here, so kudos to him for that.

Sadds The Gr8
05-05-2014, 06:47 PM
I'm fine with it. Hopefully this season wasn't a fluke and he can continue to improve with the team

BALLER R
05-05-2014, 06:54 PM
We knew it was coming. What I liked was that it happened right away. So most likely it was on the table I think both sides kinda knew what the deal would be.

Raptor
05-05-2014, 07:01 PM
I'm good with this. It would've been terrible if the organization didn't resign him after this year.

It's kind of weird, wasn't Smitch in a similar scenario when BC took over. A lot of people didn't think he would be around after his contract was over but after a great year, he got an extension. Hopefully history does not repeat itself.

Raps Insider 12
05-05-2014, 07:04 PM
Somebody in here may go bananas with this news lol.

If not Casey, Masai will go in another direction. With Casey, status quo with minor changes.

Masai will go hard re-signing Lowry. Casey had an unbelievable connection with Kyle this season. I'm sure Casey will lobby for both GVZ and Pat as well.

Then possibly minor tweaks to address the back up Center and back up wing(VC).

Draft another wing defender possibly to round out the roster with the core going for further development.

I don't expect Masai to break the bank and jeopardize flexibility. I am sure TL and him are looking ahead when Durant can be had as a FA.

smith&wesson
05-05-2014, 07:06 PM
well deserved! Casey earned this.. he certainly grew on me through out this season. The way he had this team focused, playing for one another, sharing the ball etc. over all he did wonders for this teams D and cohesiveness.

I do hope that we get new assistance who can run better offensive plays.. Also hope that MU will sign some players that will help Casey define a clear rotation. Having guys like fields & salmons doesnt help. dont really know what to expect of them night in and night out so Casey gets a pass from me on his rotations as well.

smith&wesson
05-05-2014, 07:10 PM
Somebody in here may go bananas with this news lol.

If not Casey, Masai will go in another direction. With Casey, status quo with minor changes.

Masai will go hard re-signing Lowry. Casey had an unbelievable connection with Kyle this season. I'm sure Casey will lobby for both GVZ and Pat as well.

Then possibly minor tweaks to address the back up Center and back up wing(VC).

Draft another wing defender possibly to round out the roster with the core going for further development.

I don't expect Masai to break the bank and jeopardize flexibility. I am sure TL and him are looking ahead when Durant can be had as a FA.

do we have cap room for all that :confused: i dont think so.

LAKobeBryant
05-05-2014, 07:11 PM
thats good. raptors should keep their core guys and improve depth on the team

smith&wesson
05-05-2014, 07:12 PM
if you all think about it, if we had the core of lowry, derozan, ross, amir, jonas, patman, gvz at the start of the season most of us would think that we would have been a lottery team once again.

Casey did wonders with that rotation, and with very little bench help. Casey really did an awesome job with these kids.

smith&wesson
05-05-2014, 07:13 PM
thats good. raptors should keep their core guys and improve depth on the team

seems as thought, thats the plan.

Raps Insider 12
05-05-2014, 07:19 PM
do we have cap room for all that :confused: i dont think so.

I think there were a couple of posters on another thread who already addressed this if Masai decides to resign all three.

Unless Lowry would ask for more than 10 per and both GVZ and Pat would not exceed a combined 10m then I think its possible. They can also backload the contract of Lowry, no?

I am not well versed with the cap situation so someone can correct me but one of Fields or Novak may also have to be bought out to acquire VC.
We can probably get a back up C for the minimum.

spreadeagle
05-05-2014, 07:23 PM
Congrats, I like the stability of having a long term coach

North Yorker
05-05-2014, 07:26 PM
I think there were a couple of posters on another thread who already addressed this if Masai decides to resign all three.

Unless Lowry would ask for more than 10 per and both GVZ and Pat would not exceed a combined 10m then I think its possible. They can also backload the contract of Lowry, no?

I am not well versed with the cap situation so someone can correct me but one of Fields or Novak may also have to be bought out to acquire VC.
We can probably get a back up C for the minimum.

If we get VC it will most likely be with the MLE. To have the MLE, we must be over the cap. Re-signing Lowry, GV, Patt, and paying our draft pick will easily put us over the cap.

smith&wesson
05-05-2014, 07:26 PM
I think there were a couple of posters on another thread who already addressed this if Masai decides to resign all three.

Unless Lowry would ask for more than 10 per and both GVZ and Pat would not exceed a combined 10m then I think its possible. They can also backload the contract of Lowry, no?

I am not well versed with the cap situation so someone can correct me but one of Fields or Novak may also have to be bought out to acquire VC.
We can probably get a back up C for the minimum.

Im no guru but I think if we resign lowry, patman, & gvz were pretty much capped out. but I hope that Im wrong and that youre right because I would love the possibility of keeping this core and adding a dependable back up C as well as a 6th man on the wing like VC like you suggested.

smith&wesson
05-05-2014, 07:27 PM
If we get VC it will most likely be with the MLE. To have the MLE, we must be over the cap. Re-signing Lowry, GV, Patt, and paying our draft pick will easily put us over the cap.

so we would have to go in to luxury tax to sign vince ?

Raps Insider 12
05-05-2014, 07:32 PM
If we get VC it will most likely be with the MLE. To have the MLE, we must be over the cap. Re-signing Lowry, GV, Patt, and paying our draft pick will easily put us over the cap.

Over the cap but still below the tax penalty.

I also read and posted in this forum a few weeks back about the increase in cap for another 3 mil so it will probably end up at around 65 mil (starting 2014 season)

It is imperative also that Masai should re-sign Pat and GVZ up to only two years max to have flexibility when Durant becomes a FA, would you agree?

North Yorker
05-05-2014, 07:33 PM
so we would have to go in to luxury tax to sign vince ?

No, the luxury tax is like $15-20M higher than the cap iirc. Re-signing Lowry+GV+Patt+our pick will likely put us somewhere between $4-7M over the cap (very rough estimate). The MLE is ~$6M and can be split up. So we could spend half of it on VC on a $3M/yr contract, and the other half on a backup C.

Bottom line, we can afford resigning all of our core guys+ our draft picks and still have $6M to spend to upgrade the bench.

Jays Claw
05-05-2014, 07:38 PM
Well considering the Raps were supposed to be a lottery team... there's no surprise here. Casey did a marvelous job with the roster this season and he deserves it. Hopefully he's here to stay and doesn't end up like Mitchell or Triano.

North Yorker
05-05-2014, 07:39 PM
Over the cap but still below the tax penalty.

I also read and posted in this forum a few weeks back about the increase in cap for another 3 mil so it will probably end up at around 65 mil (starting 2014 season)

It is imperative also that Masai should re-sign Pat and GVZ up to only two years max to have flexibility when Durant becomes a FA, would you agree?
Yes, was alluding to this earlier today (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?863825-Our-Free-Agents-Who-do-you-think-is-coming-back&p=28432367#post28432367). Masai can go the route of signing strictly vet guys for the bench who's contracts don't go past the 2015/16 season, so they have more flexibility to go after Durant.

OR

He could re-sign guys past 2016 like Patt and GV, and then continue to stockpile picks for the 2016 draft. He already has 2, and I wouldn't be opposed if he traded our 2015 1st for another 2016 pick. Why?

If we want to go after Durant but don't have the cap space, we can package those 2016 picks with players to shed their deals, so we get enough room to sign a max player. Kinda like how GSW packaged picks with Richard Jefferson and Biedrins in order to sign Igoudala.

killersweet
05-05-2014, 07:43 PM
I must say, I am disappointed with this news. I am not opposed to bringing Casey back, but what is the rush? Did they evaluate him that quickly? and 3 years? Which means it is possible Casey is going to be part of the next step, which I am not sure he is going to be capable of. I think the team played with so much heart and I am not sure about his rotations and play calling. Oh well, hopefully this doesn't backfire.

Raps Insider 12
05-05-2014, 07:53 PM
I must say, I am disappointed with this news. I am not opposed to bringing Casey back, but what is the rush? Did they evaluate him that quickly? and 3 years? Which means it is possible Casey is going to be part of the next step, which I am not sure he is going to be capable of. I think the team played with so much heart and I am not sure about his rotations and play calling. Oh well, hopefully this doesn't backfire.

I'm with you, not a fan from the get go. But he over performed this season. He was instrumental to the growth of Demar, Val and Ross. He is as well could be a factor for Lowry to stay with their surprisingly connection. It would be difficult for Kyle to find another coach, re-establish rapport and relationship starting from scratch especially with his prior history.

Going forward, I expect Casey to retain Bayno and Nurse as part of his staff.

Casey did well with a decent bench. He will do better if Massai rounds it out and provide him with more ammos.

Kyle's resigning is important for Casey continued success IMO.

lajoie
05-05-2014, 08:01 PM
Well, last thing the Raptors need is a Dave Joerger situation where the new coach tries to pigeon hole your players into playing a style they can't possibly succeed in.

North Yorker
05-05-2014, 08:02 PM
David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt 36m
Dwane Casey's new three-year deal, per source, will likely be for just under $4M/year..

ink
05-05-2014, 08:14 PM
Not surprised. Masai gave the coach some objectives and he exceeded them by far.

killersweet
05-05-2014, 08:15 PM
I'm with you, not a fan from the get go. But he over performed this season. He was instrumental to the growth of Demar, Val and Ross. He is as well could be a factor for Lowry to stay with their surprisingly connection. It would be difficult for Kyle to find another coach, re-establish rapport and relationship starting from scratch especially with his prior history.

Going forward, I expect Casey to retain Bayno and Nurse as part of his staff.

Casey did well with a decent bench. He will do better if Massai rounds it out and provide him with more ammos.

Kyle's resigning is important for Casey continued success IMO.

I am looking at long term success of the raptors. Can Casey really coach a team to conference finals or nba finals? I am not sold.

mike_noodles
05-05-2014, 08:15 PM
No, the luxury tax is like $15-20M higher than the cap iirc. Re-signing Lowry+GV+Patt+our pick will likely put us somewhere between $4-7M over the cap (very rough estimate). The MLE is ~$6M and can be split up. So we could spend half of it on VC on a $3M/yr contract, and the other half on a backup C.

Bottom line, we can afford resigning all of our core guys+ our draft picks and still have $6M to spend to upgrade the bench.

In the new CBA, the lux tax is much lower than it used to be. For this year it was ~13 million difference.

And I might be wrong, but it was my understanding that the MLE is only for teams over the cap. If we begin the off-season under the cap we don't get the MLE. However the cap holds may count against our cap which would be good.

killersweet
05-05-2014, 08:17 PM
Well, last thing the Raptors need is a Dave Joerger situation where the new coach tries to pigeon hole your players into playing a style they can't possibly succeed in.

He did a great job with that team. If they were in the east, they are probably looking at eastern conference finals. They gave OKC all they can handle and if Randolph was around for game 7, things may have turned out different.

mike_noodles
05-05-2014, 08:17 PM
I like the deal for both sides. It's not so long that if everything goes in the ******* you can still cut ties and move on.

Raps Insider 12
05-05-2014, 08:19 PM
I am looking at long term success of the raptors. Can Casey really coach a team to conference finals or nba finals? I am not sold.

Haha, good question

Durant however will make Casey the greatest Raptor coach ever ;)

North Yorker
05-05-2014, 08:20 PM
In the new CBA, the lux tax is much lower than it used to be. For this year it was ~13 million difference.

And I might be wrong, but it was my understanding that the MLE is only for teams over the cap. If we begin the off-season under the cap we don't get the MLE. However the cap holds may count against our cap which would be good.

Assuming that we re-sign our guys, we'll be over the cap. But you're saying that if the cap holds for our players are below the cap, then we won't get the MLE? Didn't know that. Can anyone confirm this?

Raps Insider 12
05-05-2014, 08:22 PM
We still have Camby's salary.

killersweet
05-05-2014, 08:27 PM
Haha, good question

Durant however will make Casey the greatest Raptor coach ever ;)

KD will change the landscape of the raptors. We can only dream at this point.

mjt20mik
05-05-2014, 08:29 PM
not upset.. 3 years is fine

lajoie
05-05-2014, 08:30 PM
He did a great job with that team. If they were in the east, they are probably looking at eastern conference finals. They gave OKC all they can handle and if Randolph was around for game 7, things may have turned out different.

You didn't watch them at the beginning of the season. He tried to turn that team into a running team. How moronic do you have to be to do that with that roster?

And his philosophy of trying to keep a big lead by holding the ball for almost a full 24 seconds for an entire quarter burned them a couple of times in that series.

Raps Insider 12
05-05-2014, 08:35 PM
KD will change the landscape of the raptors. We can only dream at this point.

TL and Massai wanted to project stability for would be free agents so a consistent coach is a start.

I read somewhere that Kevin Ollie has a great connection with KD. Maybe in two or three years when Casey once again becomes a lameduck coach and KD is ready for free agency, TL and Massai can lure him.

Until now, as you said we can only dream.

mike_noodles
05-05-2014, 08:37 PM
Assuming that we re-sign our guys, we'll be over the cap. But you're saying that if the cap holds for our players are below the cap, then we won't get the MLE? Didn't know that. Can anyone confirm this?

Bramaca should know what we'll be looking at.

Also, the $41m for next year committed does not include Amir's option which will be picked up. That puts us at $48m according to hoopshype. So that would leave us with anywhere from $15 - $20 to play with.

killersweet
05-05-2014, 09:42 PM
You didn't watch them at the beginning of the season. He tried to turn that team into a running team. How moronic do you have to be to do that with that roster?

And his philosophy of trying to keep a big lead by holding the ball for almost a full 24 seconds for an entire quarter burned them a couple of times in that series.
I did watch them in the beginning of the season and they struggled with the coach's new philosophy. But he was a good coach who found what worked for the team. They still made the playoffs in the tough Western conference. Bringing in a new coach shouldn't deter what would work for a team in the long run. You can't be afraid of things like that if you are aspiring to be a contender.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-05-2014, 10:19 PM
He's solid.

American media loves this guy. He's a smart guy and he's a legit defensive coach. His offensive game is starting to come around a bit. He has some talent to use on offence so his offence doesn't look as bad.

ink
05-05-2014, 11:47 PM
^ The timing of the signing is a big emphatic stamp of approval from Masai.

North Yorker
05-05-2014, 11:51 PM
^ The timing of the signing is a big emphatic stamp of approval from Masai.

Probably wanted to get it done quickly to appease the players, and more specifically Lowry as he starts to make his FA decisions.

SA5195
05-06-2014, 12:17 AM
He did deserve it :)

Bramaca
05-06-2014, 07:39 AM
Assuming that we re-sign our guys, we'll be over the cap. But you're saying that if the cap holds for our players are below the cap, then we won't get the MLE? Didn't know that. Can anyone confirm this?

No, don't lose the MLE because of that. Only way you lose the MLE is if you are below the cap and decide to use cap space to sign players in which case you have to renounce all exceptions and cap holds.

Bramaca
05-06-2014, 07:44 AM
Expected Casey to be resigned. Its a very, very similar situation to Mitchell. The right move may be to move on but the situation seems to be forcing it the other way. Hopefully Casey becomes a different and improved coach over the summer.

North Yorker
05-06-2014, 08:34 AM
No, don't lose the MLE because of that. Only way you lose the MLE is if you are below the cap and decide to use cap space to sign players in which case you have to renounce all exceptions and cap holds.

Alright, so the MLE will be available to us if re-signing our own FAs brings us above the cap, correct? I feel Masai will want to use that to help improve the team immediately with some vets off the bench.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 09:20 AM
Expected Casey to be resigned. Its a very, very similar situation to Mitchell. The right move may be to move on but the situation seems to be forcing it the other way. Hopefully Casey becomes a different and improved coach over the summer.

:sigh:

pulzar
05-06-2014, 09:49 AM
Well deserved. I really didn't like him to start the season, and he seemed lost and unable to organize the team... but has done wonders since. His post-game conferences give me confidence that he sees things the right way and will continue to work on developing the team.

I think this is also an important first step towards keeping Lowry here.

Bramaca
05-06-2014, 10:31 AM
Alright, so the MLE will be available to us if re-signing our own FAs brings us above the cap, correct? I feel Masai will want to use that to help improve the team immediately with some vets off the bench.

Even if re-signing them doesn't bring the Raps above the cap they still have the MLE. If they release Salmons and Hansbrough and give them the payout the Raps will be sitting around $42.5 million. The free agents and the exceptions (MLE and bi-annual) count as holds against the Raps cap situation on top of the $42.5 million. They don't lose any of those no matter what unless they chose to use cap space to sign a player and have to renounce those rights.

For example say the Raps signed Lowry, Vasquez, and Paterson for a combined $15 million per season (its not going to happen but its an example) which would bring them up to $57.5 million and the cap is set for $63.5 million. The team still has its MLE and bi-annual even though it is 6 million under the cap. So they could still offer a contract of $5.3 million with the MLE and $2.1 million with the bi-annual. Say they didn't sign one of those players and their cap situation is lower then its not a big deal if they lose those because then you could still use your cap room which would be more then the MLE anyways and the room-mle which 2.7 million.

ink
05-06-2014, 10:31 AM
Expected Casey to be resigned. Its a very, very similar situation to Mitchell. The right move may be to move on but the situation seems to be forcing it the other way. Hopefully Casey becomes a different and improved coach over the summer.

I don't see the comparison to Mitchell though you've made it many times. I think Casey is more than a motivator and needs to be credited for tactical abilities esp on D. He also has a better staff now and shows willingness to incorporate others - their ideas and even their presence in huddles and on sidelines. He has his weaknesses but he also has more elite experience with better mentoring coaches and a longer professional profile than Smitch did.

3Blueforyou
05-06-2014, 10:35 AM
No, don't lose the MLE because of that. Only way you lose the MLE is if you are below the cap and decide to use cap space to sign players in which case you have to renounce all exceptions and cap holds.

I thought the MLE adjusted based on your relative position to the cap and tax line? Wiki is references Larry Coon's cap break down showing these values depending on position.
$5.15 million for non-taxpaying teams over the cap
$3.09 million for taxpaying teams over the cap
$2.575 million for teams with cap room

Bramaca
05-06-2014, 10:40 AM
I don't see the comparison to Mitchell though you've made it many times.

Yes, I know you don't see it because you've made that point many times. We don't agree about that since I see alot to compare between the two.

ink
05-06-2014, 10:41 AM
I don't see the comparison to Mitchell though you've made it many times.

Yes, I know you don't see it because you've made that point many times. We don't agree about that since I see alot to compare between the two.

Agree to disagree. Casey IMO is capable of more growth.

pebloemer
05-06-2014, 10:42 AM
No surprise here. Congrats to Casey. Hopefully he can continue to develop these young players.

Hard to put a value on head coaches, especially one like Casey who has had such mixed results over the past few years. I really like how he had the team play this year but much more progress is still needed.

Bramaca
05-06-2014, 10:42 AM
I don't see the comparison to Mitchell though you've made it many times. I think Casey is more than a motivator and needs to be credited for tactical abilities esp on D. He also has a better staff now and shows willingness to incorporate others - their ideas and even their presence in huddles and on sidelines. He has his weaknesses but he also has more elite experience with better mentoring coaches and a longer professional profile than Smitch did.

Despite all that he still seems to do many of the same thigns.

North Yorker
05-06-2014, 10:44 AM
Even if re-signing them doesn't bring the Raps above the cap they still have the MLE. If they release Salmons and Hansbrough and give them the payout the Raps will be sitting around $42.5 million. The free agents and the exceptions (MLE and bi-annual) count as holds against the Raps cap situation on top of the $42.5 million. They don't lose any of those no matter what unless they chose to use cap space to sign a player and have to renounce those rights.

For example say the Raps signed Lowry, Vasquez, and Paterson for a combined $15 million per season (its not going to happen but its an example) which would bring them up to $57.5 million and the cap is set for $63.5 million. The team still has its MLE and bi-annual even though it is 6 million under the cap. So they could still offer a contract of $5.3 million with the MLE and $2.1 million with the bi-annual. Say they didn't sign one of those players and their cap situation is lower then its not a big deal if they lose those because then you could still use your cap room which would be more then the MLE anyways and the room-mle which 2.7 million.

Alright, thanks.

Bramaca
05-06-2014, 10:44 AM
I thought the MLE adjusted based on your relative position to the cap and tax line? Wiki is references Larry Coon's cap break down showing these values depending on position.
$5.15 million for non-taxpaying teams over the cap
$3.09 million for taxpaying teams over the cap
$2.575 million for teams with cap room

It depends on a lot of things but if you're below the cap but the exceptions take you higher then the cap then you still have them.

ink
05-06-2014, 10:47 AM
I don't see the comparison to Mitchell though you've made it many times. I think Casey is more than a motivator and needs to be credited for tactical abilities esp on D. He also has a better staff now and shows willingness to incorporate others - their ideas and even their presence in huddles and on sidelines. He has his weaknesses but he also has more elite experience with better mentoring coaches and a longer professional profile than Smitch did.

Despite all that he still seems to do many of the same thigns.

I just noted several things Smitch didn't do.

BALLER R
05-06-2014, 11:12 AM
I think casey is willing to learn. Smitch on the other hand is stubborn.

BALLER R
05-06-2014, 11:51 AM
Listening the Casey and Masai press

Masai said Lowry, Vasquez, Patterson and Nando are piorities. Keeping core together. They are mapping out summer to get players better.

Casey talked about Jonas working with Hakeem. Ross needs to get stronger and work on his base strength. He's athletic but needs to get his base strong so he can't be knocked down.

Demar also needs to get stronger. Said Demar needs to get his base stronger because it will help him defensively.

Casey says Kyle and Jose was a problem. But it was because him and Jose already had an understanding. So kyle came in and was learning everything. Said he and Jose also didn't see eye to eye. Kyle was second fiddle but a guy like Kyle isn't a second fiddle.

Casey and Kyle relationship got better over time and because they spend time away from basketball. Talked about spending time together at Rudy Gay's wedding.

Casey compared the situation with Jose and Kyle as having a new girlfriend with the old one still around.

Masai says they will look at a lot of names, not only Vince. He isn't looking for quick fixes.

Masai "I really don't care what the expectations are".

Casey says he will look at every game. Look at situations, and how he could of made better subs or plays.

After Rudy Gay trade Masai told Kyle this is business.

Casey said Vasquez the most confident guy on the team. He think he can score on Lebron, Kobe and Jordan in his prime. If you told him to run through a wall he might look at you funny but he would do it.

Masai said he was texting Drake back n forth, asked him what he's doing. Drake said he's at dinner with Greivis.

Said Vasquez the best kind of teammate you want. Everyone loves him he's a great teammate.

Greivis is close with hansbrough.

Casey shocked at how well Jonas came out in game 1. Also Ross scoring 51 was a surprising game for Casey.

Masai giving Colangelo props. Says Colangelo should be given some credit.

Also talking about what's happening in Nigeria kids getting kidnapped.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 11:57 AM
Thanks for the summary :up:

BALLER R
05-06-2014, 02:09 PM
Yup I was right, in anther interview that Masai did today. He said Derozan and Patterson will be working with Hakeem also. They want Demar to get back into the post.

pebloemer
05-06-2014, 02:27 PM
Casey has a good chance to be the longest tenured coach in Raptor's history. Not that it is such a great feat or anything, but certainly indicative of our coaching instability year in year out.

ink
05-06-2014, 02:34 PM
Yup I was right, in anther interview that Masai did today. He said Derozan and Patterson will be working with Hakeem also. They want Demar to get back into the post.

Doesn't that raise the red flag that they're steering him toward more ISO's?

I'm very happy to hear that PP and JV will be working with him but not so sure about DD.

Jamiecballer
05-06-2014, 02:35 PM
Haha, good question

Durant however will make Casey the greatest Raptor coach ever ;)

exactly. having a good coach is important but i'm not sure the teams in the finals every year are necessarily the ones with the best coaches

North Yorker
05-06-2014, 02:39 PM
Doesn't that raise the red flag that they're steering him toward more ISO's?

I'm very happy to hear that PP and JV will be working with him but not so sure about DD.

More likely to draw double teams this way, easier to pass out of. Better that than getting trapped 10 feet outside the 3 pt line like Lowry and DD did last series.

ink
05-06-2014, 02:44 PM
More likely to draw double teams this way, easier to pass out of. Better that than getting trapped 10 feet outside the 3 pt line like Lowry and DD did last series.

Could go that way or it could backfire with him trying to back his man down every time he gets the ball. I keep wanting to hear someone say that DD is working with a defensive coach and an ex PG on his playmaking. I know he can do it, my issue is with what he defaults to under duress.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 02:53 PM
exactly. having a good coach is important but i'm not sure the teams in the finals every year are necessarily the ones with the best coaches

If you look at the NBA finals for the 10 years, those teams were coached by the best in the NBA. Eric Spolstra is the only one without much history. Others have been around for years.

ink
05-06-2014, 02:59 PM
exactly. having a good coach is important but i'm not sure the teams in the finals every year are necessarily the ones with the best coaches

If you look at the NBA finals for the 10 years, those teams were coached by the best in the NBA. Eric Spolstra is the only one without much history. Others have been around for years.

By the time we get to the finals our coaches will have been around for years. ;)

My point is we could take a while to get to the ECF or even the semis.

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 03:09 PM
^ I thought that is the blue print all along, no quick fixes and slow rebuild. I also thought that you've been lobbying that route from the very start, no?

Masai reiterated again that plan during the presser with Casey.

BALLER R
05-06-2014, 03:16 PM
Doesn't that raise the red flag that they're steering him toward more ISO's?

I'm very happy to hear that PP and JV will be working with him but not so sure about DD.

Could be. But honestly I rather him going iso in the post. As long as he passes the ball once the 2nd defender is coming. But it's he's going to shoot every time he gets it then we got a problem.

I hated the iso's at the 3 point line. If he can get position and you they throw it in then that's not bad. But it's he's going to hold on the ball then I would be worried.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 03:17 PM
By the time we get to the finals our coaches will have been around for years. ;)

My point is we could take a while to get to the ECF or even the semis.

If you have an average coach, you need superstars like KD, LBJ around to make it to the next level. Currently our team doesn't have superstars and our coach is average. I hope he improves. So how many years till we reach the promise land or come close to it? 3-5 years? Since the way team is built currently, drafts aren't going to be that helpful in making up the team. This off season will be an interesting one for sure.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 03:19 PM
^ I thought that is the blue print all along, no quick fixes and slow rebuild. I also thought that you've been lobbying that route from the very start, no?

Masai reiterated again that plan during the presser with Casey.

how is this going to be a slow rebuild if the team is going to make the playoffs every year? is this a rebuild through FA/Trades?

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 03:24 PM
Masai mentioned about the need for a shot blocker.

John Henson and Taj Gibson are both agile bigs with consistent offensive numbers and are very good shot blockers. Will Masai get involve in a trade?

He also made a comment about getting another wing defender.
Any candidates out there for a possible trade?

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 03:29 PM
how is this going to be a slow rebuild if the team is going to make the playoffs every year? is this a rebuild through FA/Trades?

Development of the core and adding minor pieces, that is what I am understanding from Masai. He doubled down on that today.

ink
05-06-2014, 03:32 PM
By the time we get to the finals our coaches will have been around for years. ;)

My point is we could take a while to get to the ECF or even the semis.

If you have an average coach, you need superstars like KD, LBJ around to make it to the next level. Currently our team doesn't have superstars and our coach is average. I hope he improves. So how many years till we reach the promise land or come close to it? 3-5 years? Since the way team is built currently, drafts aren't going to be that helpful in making up the team. This off season will be an interesting one for sure.

The norm has always been superstar + good/ok coach. Casey is at least ok, some would say better than that. The key factor is always the talent.

ink
05-06-2014, 03:34 PM
how is this going to be a slow rebuild if the team is going to make the playoffs every year? is this a rebuild through FA/Trades?

Development of the core and adding minor pieces, that is what I am understanding from Masai. He double downed on that today.

To me that's not a rebuild but it really doesn't matter. We are going with this core and we have to hope they have enough growth in them. We know they have the desire and drive.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 03:38 PM
The norm has always been superstar + good/ok coach. Casey is at least ok, some would say better than that. The key factor is always the talent.

Of course the talent is the key. But there are coaches who get most out of the talent. Do we have that? Time will tell.

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 03:40 PM
Maybe Masai likes to observe ants on his spare time...

Colony is greater than the sum of its parts.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 03:41 PM
Development of the core and adding minor pieces, that is what I am understanding from Masai. He double downed on that today.

How much more can this core develop? except for Val and Ross, I think others are pretty near their ceiling. Now the pieces MU add to this core are going to be the key. BC also wanted a rebuild and then he abandoned that plan when he saw little success. I think MU will be different. He seems to be firm on what he wants. Let's see how it translates in the off season moves.

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 03:50 PM
How much more can this core develop? except for Val and Ross, I think others are pretty near their ceiling. Now the pieces MU add to this core are going to be the key. BC also wanted a rebuild and then he abandoned that plan when he saw little success. I think MU will be different. He seems to be firm on what he wants. Let's see how it translates in the off season moves.

He is methodical and keeps his hands always closed to his vest.

But again he is no god, so I'm sure we will get into his case once this does not consistently pan out. Once this fan base tasted success they will clamor for more. It's just human nature.

smith&wesson
05-06-2014, 03:54 PM
How much more can this core develop? except for Val and Ross, I think others are pretty near their ceiling. Now the pieces MU add to this core are going to be the key. BC also wanted a rebuild and then he abandoned that plan when he saw little success. I think MU will be different. He seems to be firm on what he wants. Let's see how it translates in the off season moves.

patman, ross, gvz, jonas are all young enough to get better. hell even derozan continues to improve and make strides every year.

Casey is a better coach than he gets credit for around here. Think about what he was able to do with a roster that many beleived was a lottery team. Then think about the horrible record to start and you can see that he really made an impact on the young players on this team. you can tell by the way they responded post rudy trade.

lajoie
05-06-2014, 03:57 PM
Doesn't that raise the red flag that they're steering him toward more ISO's?

I'm very happy to hear that PP and JV will be working with him but not so sure about DD.

Seems more like they are trying to diversify his offensive game. Way too reliant on the long two

killersweet
05-06-2014, 04:10 PM
patman, ross, gvz, jonas are all young enough to get better. hell even derozan continues to improve and make strides every year.

Casey is a better coach than he gets credit for around here. Think about what he was able to do with a roster that many beleived was a lottery team. Then think about the horrible record to start and you can see that he really made an impact on the young players on this team. you can tell by the way they responded post rudy trade.

Patman and GVZ are FAs. And Jonas and Ross will get better. I think DD is close to his ceiling, but hope he improves upon this season. I understand that Casey got the players to play well. But how much of the success came from Player's heart and hustle. We have seen casey over few years now. He still has questionable substitutions, plays and rotations. Casey's improvements has been decent. But he still has a long way to go. Can he improve? Sure he can. But I am not sure if he is the coach who is going to take this team to new heights. I hope he proves me wrong.

killersweet
05-06-2014, 04:12 PM
He is methodical and keeps his hands always closed to his vest.

But again he is no god, so I'm sure we will get into his case once this does not consistently pan out. Once this fan base tasted success they will clamor for more. It's just human nature.

That's true. Look at how Jays GM AA was treated few years back. the guy can do no wrong. Now most people want him gone. I just hope that MU makes competent moves. If some moves don't pan out, can't do much. But I hope he sticks to his guns and doesn't play safe.

mike_noodles
05-06-2014, 04:40 PM
Doesn't that raise the red flag that they're steering him toward more ISO's?

I'm very happy to hear that PP and JV will be working with him but not so sure about DD.

Not at all. The greats in the game no matter the position can all post up their man. I doubt it would be something that they change their style for. But when you really need a bucket it's a great weapon to have.

Jamiecballer
05-06-2014, 05:10 PM
The norm has always been superstar + good/ok coach. Casey is at least ok, some would say better than that. The key factor is always the talent.

That's what I'm saying too. And if we are lucky enough to acquire said talent people will all of a sudden be elevating casey. That's how it works.

Kinglorious
05-06-2014, 05:13 PM
Great news and I like how quickly it was done. MLSE respected Casey and they weren't going to leave him twisting in the wind waiting for the news. And I think we all figured he'd be back -- to me it wasn't even up for debate.

ink
05-06-2014, 05:33 PM
Of course the talent is the key. But there are coaches who get most out of the talent. Do we have that? Time will tell.

I think he gets quite a bit out of them. More than most, in fact that's his strong suit. And I ALWAYS point back to this being a staff because that's the way it works in a good organization. A director of marketing doesn't have to be a great illustrator; they hire someone to execute that work; the director just needs to excel at leading, at finding a way to work with people, get them receptive to the ideas his team introduces. In turn, he needs to learn their ideas too and learn how and when to implement them on the fly. He can learn from those that work under him. Every good org I have ever been with works this way. Short answer again, yes he gets the most out of them. And with help, he will focus what he wants from people better and better. I think he's an open individual who knows that learning is part of improving himself.

ink
05-06-2014, 05:38 PM
That's what I'm saying too. And if we are lucky enough to acquire said talent people will all of a sudden be elevating casey. That's how it works.

Definitely. And that talent includes the upgrades we got to the coaching staff last year, and specialists like Hakeem for our big men.

smith&wesson
05-06-2014, 05:41 PM
Patman and GVZ are FAs. And Jonas and Ross will get better. I think DD is close to his ceiling, but hope he improves upon this season. I understand that Casey got the players to play well. But how much of the success came from Player's heart and hustle. We have seen casey over few years now. He still has questionable substitutions, plays and rotations. Casey's improvements has been decent. But he still has a long way to go. Can he improve? Sure he can. But I am not sure if he is the coach who is going to take this team to new heights. I hope he proves me wrong.

his rotations were questioned sure. But let me ask you this if you were the coach of a team that was about 7 players deep.. what would your rotations look like ?

outside of lowry, dero, ross, amir, jonas, gvz, patman... the talent level drops off sicnificantly. he could use any combination of fields, TH, hayes, salmons, decolo and we would question his rotations.

smith&wesson
05-06-2014, 05:42 PM
Definitely. And that talent includes the upgrades we got to the coaching staff last year, and specialists like Hakeem for our big men.

this going to be huge for jonas' development. I think its the best thing the franchise could have done for the young big man.

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 05:48 PM
I find it interesting how the organization of the Raptors and Golden Stated measured success differently.

Both got eliminated after a game 7 heartbreaker, one rewarded the headmaster with a new three year deal but the other just got canned.

Mark Jackson I thought is very instrumental in the growth of the splash brothers including Damon Green. Casey played a vital role in the vast improvement of Kyle, DD, Val and Ross.

One had 2 consecutive winning seasons, the other had success after an early season trade of one of his square peg in a round hole player.

I guess the West is just that competitive that a first round exit paramounts to a failure.

Crazy league.

Freakazoid
05-06-2014, 06:00 PM
I find it interesting how the organization of the Raptors and Golden Stated measured success differently.

Both got eliminated after a game 7 heartbreaker, one rewarded the headmaster with a new three year deal but the other just got canned.

Mark Jackson I thought is very instrumental in the growth of the splash brothers including Damon Green. Casey played a vital role in the vast improvement of Kyle, DD, Val and Ross.

One had 2 consecutive winning seasons, the other had success after an early season trade of one of his square peg in a round hole player.

I guess the West is just that competitive that a first round exit paramounts to a failure.

Crazy league.

Well, it was because Mark Jackson is a **** coach and he's a ****** person to work with. If Jackson was able to work with his assistant coaches and FO, he wouldn't have been fired.

ink
05-06-2014, 06:05 PM
Well, it was because Mark Jackson is a **** coach and he's a ****** person to work with. If Jackson was able to work with his assistant coaches and FO, he wouldn't have been fired.

That's what I gathered too from the articles I read. Sounded like Warrior HQ wasn't a happy work environment and they removed him.

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 06:17 PM
If it is really Jackson then they need to find someone with less of a strong personality, more of a company guy. They probably would need to do a more intensive personality checks with all of their applicants.

But if it is the Org, and Mark is saying that the environment is not conducive for working then that is a major issue for future hires. The Clips have a racist owner, what could be more difficult than that.

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 06:20 PM
Somebody pointed out that Casey is the polar opposite of Sam Mitchell when it comes to how he approach people around him. He is a likeable human being.

Freakazoid
05-06-2014, 06:24 PM
If it is really Jackson then they need to find someone with less of a strong personality, more of a company guy. They probably would need to do a more intensive personality checks with all of their applicants.

But if it is the Org, and Mark is saying that the environment is not conducive for working then that is a major issue for future hires. The Clips have a racist owner, what could be more difficult than that.

Mark Jackson is a terrible coach that refuses to take criticism. He has had terrible working relationships with his assistant coaches in the past. It got so bad, one of his assistant coaches was forced to record their day to day interactions for insurance. It has nothing to do with needing to find a "company guy".

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 06:35 PM
Mark Jackson is a terrible coach that refuses to take criticism. He has had terrible working relationships with his assistant coaches in the past. It got so bad, one of his assistant coaches was forced to record their day to day interactions for insurance. It has nothing to do with needing to find a "company guy".

Do you think that there is more to this than meets the eye? Because if my memory served me right, I haven't heard Mark Jackson being involved in disputes as a player or as a TV analyst.

I thought he is a stand up guy from what his peers are saying about him.

With regards to the GS org, I guess they may have high standards after Don Nelson.

LAKobeBryant
05-06-2014, 06:51 PM
his rotations were questioned sure. But let me ask you this if you were the coach of a team that was about 7 players deep.. what would your rotations look like ?

outside of lowry, dero, ross, amir, jonas, gvz, patman... the talent level drops off sicnificantly. he could use any combination of fields, TH, hayes, salmons, decolo and we would question his rotations.

looking at fields stats first year at NY with 10 points a game, 40% 3pt percent and 50% overall fg percent is amazing to have off the bench. i never understood why he didn't get consistent play time here and he's only 25 yrs old plenty of time to develop.

smith&wesson
05-06-2014, 07:35 PM
I find it interesting how the organization of the Raptors and Golden Stated measured success differently.

Both got eliminated after a game 7 heartbreaker, one rewarded the headmaster with a new three year deal but the other just got canned.

Mark Jackson I thought is very instrumental in the growth of the splash brothers including Damon Green. Casey played a vital role in the vast improvement of Kyle, DD, Val and Ross.

One had 2 consecutive winning seasons, the other had success after an early season trade of one of his square peg in a round hole player.

I guess the West is just that competitive that a first round exit paramounts to a failure.

Crazy league.

with Mark Jackson there were internal issues with management. Also Mark will be a head coach again for another team very soon. He is a good coach.

smith&wesson
05-06-2014, 07:37 PM
looking at fields stats first year at NY with 10 points a game, 40% 3pt percent and 50% overall fg percent is amazing to have off the bench. i never understood why he didn't get consistent play time here and he's only 25 yrs old plenty of time to develop.

He has been injury prone since we got him here in toronto and has regressed since then. He even tried to change his shooting form over the summer. He played what ? a total of 30 games all season long ?

inserting Fields in the rotation or not makes very little difference to me in terms of evaluating Caseys rotation. If anything it highlights his lack of options on the 2nd unit.

JasonJohnHorn
05-06-2014, 08:14 PM
Dwayne Casey was given a $#!T job when he started in TO and he has done a good job so far. I have no problem with the Raptors keeping him, but I have to say, this three-year extension seems a bit odd on paper.


Look at it this way. Last year, George Karl won Coach of the Year, but lost in the first-round when they had home court: FIRED!

This year, Mark Jackson (who beat Karl's team last year), lost in 7 games (a close loss) to a team that had the better record and was supposed to win. Despite almost stealing the series and leading the team to their two best seasons in over 20 years, Jackson got fired


The Raptors, on the other hand, had a promising season, earned homecourt in the first round, and were on pace to making only the second appearance in the conference semis in team history. They went up against a rookie coach (Kidd) with homecout advantage and lost. The Raptors response? Three-year extension! WTF?!?!? Other teams are FIRING coaches for this kind of performance and the Raptors are rewarding it with an extension? I realize the team did unexpectedly well this season (in a VERY weak East where Boston and New York fell off the map and BK played like a lottery team for the first have of the season and the 76ers put together the longest losing streak ever), but the team didn't do as well as should be expected.


I got no problem with keeping Casey on for next season and seeing what he can do. But maybe this was a fluke because the east is so weak? Maybe the Raptors are back in the lottery next year. Maybe another playoff disappointment.


Why should the Raptors make a commitment this soon? Shouldn't they let him play out next year and see how the team does, and then evaluate the coaching situation and see who is available to take this team to the next level?


Only in Toronto would the ownership reward a first-round exit when the team had homecourt with a 3-year extension. Anybody else see a problem with this approach?

Byronicle
05-06-2014, 08:24 PM
He has been injury prone since we got him here in toronto and has regressed since then. He even tried to change his shooting form over the summer. He played what ? a total of 30 games all season long ?

inserting Fields in the rotation or not makes very little difference to me in terms of evaluating Caseys rotation. If anything it highlights his lack of options on the 2nd unit.

Well when you have enough nerve damage in your shooting hand to call for surgery, I would assume your shooting will regress and you would have to restructure your shot after a season of developing bad habits from a lame arm.

So far, 1st season he played with a bad arm, 2nd season recovering after a full season of bad habits. Can I blame him? Not yet

If Fields can get his shot back, it would means everything.

ink
05-06-2014, 08:25 PM
Expectations. The Warriors wanted more out of their team, which has been together for a few years now. Also sounds like their were internal incompatiblities with Jackson. The Nuggets' move last year was bizarre IMO because Karl is such a great coach but then they also let MU walk, so they have made a few bad moves. The knock on Karl has been that he was a great regular season coach and fails to deliver in the post season. Unfair? Sure. But again, the Nuggets gave him a long stay and I guess they felt it was time to refresh the organization's approach. Three different situations. I don't think losing on the home court had anything to do with any of it.

ink
05-06-2014, 08:26 PM
Well when you have enough nerve damage in your shooting hand to call for surgery, I would assume your shooting will regress and you would have to restructure your shot after a season of developing bad habits from a lame arm.

So far, 1st season he played with a bad arm, 2nd season recovering after a full season of bad habits. Can I blame him? Not yet

If Fields can get his shot back, it would means everything.

Feel bad for the guy. Hope he can regain his form.

BALLER R
05-06-2014, 08:38 PM
Dwayne Casey was given a $#!T job when he started in TO and he has done a good job so far. I have no problem with the Raptors keeping him, but I have to say, this three-year extension seems a bit odd on paper.


Look at it this way. Last year, George Karl won Coach of the Year, but lost in the first-round when they had home court: FIRED!

This year, Mark Jackson (who beat Karl's team last year), lost in 7 games (a close loss) to a team that had the better record and was supposed to win. Despite almost stealing the series and leading the team to their two best seasons in over 20 years, Jackson got fired


The Raptors, on the other hand, had a promising season, earned homecourt in the first round, and were on pace to making only the second appearance in the conference semis in team history. They went up against a rookie coach (Kidd) with homecout advantage and lost. The Raptors response? Three-year extension! WTF?!?!? Other teams are FIRING coaches for this kind of performance and the Raptors are rewarding it with an extension? I realize the team did unexpectedly well this season (in a VERY weak East where Boston and New York fell off the map and BK played like a lottery team for the first have of the season and the 76ers put together the longest losing streak ever), but the team didn't do as well as should be expected.


I got no problem with keeping Casey on for next season and seeing what he can do. But maybe this was a fluke because the east is so weak? Maybe the Raptors are back in the lottery next year. Maybe another playoff disappointment.


Why should the Raptors make a commitment this soon? Shouldn't they let him play out next year and see how the team does, and then evaluate the coaching situation and see who is available to take this team to the next level?


Only in Toronto would the ownership reward a first-round exit when the team had homecourt with a 3-year extension. Anybody else see a problem with this approach?

His contract was expired.
No one expected them to even make the playoffs.
No one expected them to have home court.
No one expected them to win the Atlantic.
No one expected them to be 3rd in the East.

Your looking at it all wrong my friend. Besides it only a 3 year contract.

pulzar
05-06-2014, 09:01 PM
Besides it only a 3 year contract.

And it's only money... it things go sour, you pay him out and replace him. You're not stuck with him like you are with Fields, for example.

Freakazoid
05-06-2014, 09:27 PM
Do you think that there is more to this than meets the eye? Because if my memory served me right, I haven't heard Mark Jackson being involved in disputes as a player or as a TV analyst.

I thought he is a stand up guy from what his peers are saying about him.

With regards to the GS org, I guess they may have high standards after Don Nelson.

There are actually a **** ton of stories about how he's arrogant and can't take criticism. These are poor qualities for a coach let alone an inexperienced one at that.

Raps Insider 12
05-06-2014, 09:41 PM
There are actually a **** ton of stories about how he's arrogant and can't take criticism. These are poor qualities for a coach let alone an inexperienced one at that.

Whatever is the true reason that may have triggered his firing may it be his behavior or his performance as a coach, I am sure he will learn from it.

Sooner or later, another GM out there will give him a second chance.

We all need one.

NBA_Starter
05-06-2014, 10:11 PM
I think with the Division Title this year he earned at least that much.

albertajaysfan
05-06-2014, 10:15 PM
I really feel like we are in the middle of our rebuild right now as we speak.

We lost Bosh bottomed out and had success a little differently than expected I would say. I doubt many thought trading our highest paid player would net these results. But I think we saw a ton of growth from several key players. Our top 6 players all took large steps just this year. That is pretty awesome.

We also have an ownership group willing to spend and a crazy supportive fan base. Our fans did not go unnoticed in these playoffs. The players noticed, nevermind the media.

I think this is a great move for the sake of continuity. As much as Casey had some questionable things I think the playoffs also exposed how our players need to get better at executing the plays as designed. This organization laid a solid foundation this season. Keeping Casey was a clear message they intent to continue building not blow what we have apart. I see that as a huge positive.

Freakazoid
05-06-2014, 11:04 PM
Whatever is the true reason that may have triggered his firing may it be his behavior or his performance as a coach, I am sure he will learn from it.

Sooner or later, another GM out there will give him a second chance.

We all need one.

Maybe. There are a lot of coaches that are out of the league because of their failure to adapt and their inability to take criticism. Jackson wouldn't be the first, nor would he be the last.

smith&wesson
05-07-2014, 12:25 AM
Well when you have enough nerve damage in your shooting hand to call for surgery, I would assume your shooting will regress and you would have to restructure your shot after a season of developing bad habits from a lame arm.

So far, 1st season he played with a bad arm, 2nd season recovering after a full season of bad habits. Can I blame him? Not yet

If Fields can get his shot back, it would means everything.

regardless of the reason, the circumstances are what they are. its unfortunate because I agree, Fields would make a difference if he regained his form from his break out season in newyork..

I was just saying, outside of the starters, gvz + patman, and maybe TH there wasn't much depth so how can we really criticize Caseys rotations.

Byronicle
05-07-2014, 03:22 PM
regardless of the reason, the circumstances are what they are. its unfortunate because I agree, Fields would make a difference if he regained his form from his break out season in newyork..

I was just saying, outside of the starters, gvz + patman, and maybe TH there wasn't much depth so how can we really criticize Caseys rotations.

Personally, my issue is not being able to adjust the matchups and not getting enough ball movement but also losing our defensive identity that won us our regular season games.

Casey should've tried putting Patterson on Joe Johnson. He was just bullying his way to the paint

The ball stuck onto Derozan and Lowry's hands too much, most notably in games where we lost. They kept deferring to lob the ball to the big men

Hopefully this changes with an offseason for Valanciunas to work the post under Hakeem but the ball movement wasn't the greatest

I don't know why our guys kept biting the fakes, not rebounding very well against a bad BKN rebounding team.

Freakazoid
05-07-2014, 03:50 PM
Expectations. The Warriors wanted more out of their team, which has been together for a few years now. Also sounds like their were internal incompatiblities with Jackson. The Nuggets' move last year was bizarre IMO because Karl is such a great coach but then they also let MU walk, so they have made a few bad moves. The knock on Karl has been that he was a great regular season coach and fails to deliver in the post season. Unfair? Sure. But again, the Nuggets gave him a long stay and I guess they felt it was time to refresh the organization's approach. Three different situations. I don't think losing on the home court had anything to do with any of it.

I read that they wanted to fire him a long time ago but MU had his back so when MU left, Karl was done.

Hmm, Bryan wanted to fire Casey. I wonder who Bryan would have hired.

albertajaysfan
05-07-2014, 03:52 PM
Personally, my issue is not being able to adjust the matchups and not getting enough ball movement but also losing our defensive identity that won us our regular season games.

Casey should've tried putting Patterson on Joe Johnson. He was just bullying his way to the paint

The ball stuck onto Derozan and Lowry's hands too much, most notably in games where we lost. They kept deferring to lob the ball to the big men

Hopefully this changes with an offseason for Valanciunas to work the post under Hakeem but the ball movement wasn't the greatest

I don't know why our guys kept biting the fakes, not rebounding very well against a bad BKN rebounding team.

I think Casey deserves to get the chance to prove that was a young team with minimal depth being overwhelmed in their first playoff experience. Plus there is also a really solid environment emerging in that locker room. He deserves some credit for that.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-07-2014, 07:15 PM
Man **** what a **** start to a off season that's crucial.
Nothing but a reactionary move and people believe anything. Dwayne Casey wasn't the reason we had a big turn around lol, where the heck did that come from?

Dwayne Casey is supposed to be some amazing defensive guru but yet the guy couldn't figure out in a seven game series how to defend Lebron Johnson and people wanna praise him? Lmao

Jamiecballer
05-07-2014, 07:28 PM
^ ya he should have used that big athletic strong wing he had on the bench.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-07-2014, 07:53 PM
^ ya he should have used that big athletic strong wing he had on the bench.

You mean similar to the wing he had guarding Lebron when the Mavs win the title? People applauded him for making some amazing adjustments, where the heck were these adjustments for us?

Fields when he was on him did a really good job bodying and out positioning him. The dude never saw a lick of time.

How is it the NY knicks were able to be one of the top defensive teams last year despite having bad defenders in Melo, Novak, Smitty on the team were able to disguise and give Novak a lotta playing time?

Freakazoid
05-07-2014, 08:18 PM
You mean similar to the wing he had guarding Lebron when the Mavs win the title? People applauded him for making some amazing adjustments, where the heck were these adjustments for us?

Fields when he was on him did a really good job bodying and out positioning him. The dude never saw a lick of time.

How is it the NY knicks were able to be one of the top defensive teams last year despite having bad defenders in Melo, Novak, Smitty on the team were able to disguise and give Novak a lotta playing time?

1. Fields was injured for most of the series.

2. Melo isn't a bad defender and they had a healthy ex-DPOY last season.

Jamiecballer
05-07-2014, 09:08 PM
1. Fields was injured for most of the series.

2. Melo isn't a bad defender and they had a healthy ex-DPOY last season.

I feel like you passed on the most obvious one - 18th in defensive rating isn't particularly good and that's with the dpoy

Freakazoid
05-08-2014, 12:14 AM
I feel like you passed on the most obvious one - 18th in defensive rating isn't particularly good and that's with the dpoy

Wow for some reason I thought they were a top 5 defensive team last year.

killersweet
05-08-2014, 08:51 AM
Man **** what a **** start to a off season that's crucial.
Nothing but a reactionary move and people believe anything. Dwayne Casey wasn't the reason we had a big turn around lol, where the heck did that come from?

Dwayne Casey is supposed to be some amazing defensive guru but yet the guy couldn't figure out in a seven game series how to defend Lebron Johnson and people wanna praise him? Lmao
Completely agree. Raptors have been organization that never takes chances. They play it safe all the time. Team overachieves, let's sign the coach right away to 3 years. Anyways, like someone said, it is just money. His contract won't count towards the cap. So he can be let go anytime if things don't pan out.

ink
05-08-2014, 12:28 PM
Completely agree. Raptors have been organization that never takes chances. They play it safe all the time. Team overachieves, let's sign the coach right away to 3 years. Anyways, like someone said, it is just money. His contract won't count towards the cap. So he can be let go anytime if things don't pan out.

Personally I think the biggest issue is that MU has already decided on his core. The other team I follow closely, the Vancouver Canucks, made a huge mistake in misidentifying their core and really selling the hell out of those familiar personalities, and ultimately fell short. Had they not rushed to try to market the personalities of the "core" players to connect with their loyal audience I think they would have come up with a superior team. Some of it's timing and some of it's being brutally realistic about the development potential of what they have. It's good, but is it great? Only great wins. As a coach I think Casey is absolutely fine. No, he's not one of the top 3 in the league, no one else is, that's why they're the top 3. But you know what, they're all employed and not going anywhere, so we need to stop comparing him to them. He's more than capable of working with his staff to improve their own strategies and improve the players they have. If management makes the right decisions and somehow manages to improve the talent level on the team, I think he and his staff will be capable of developing a better and better team. Without better talent though, I think the fan base will quickly swing in the other direction and start grumbling and much much worse. Hopefully they can sustain what they had this year but people have to realize how little precedent there is for cinderella runs to last forever.

killersweet
05-08-2014, 03:07 PM
Personally I think the biggest issue is that MU has already decided on his core. The other team I follow closely, the Vancouver Canucks, made a huge mistake in misidentifying their core and really selling the hell out of those familiar personalities, and ultimately fell short. Had they not rushed to try to market the personalities of the "core" players to connect with their loyal audience I think they would have come up with a superior team. Some of it's timing and some of it's being brutally realistic about the development potential of what they have. It's good, but is it great? Only great wins. As a coach I think Casey is absolutely fine. No, he's not one of the top 3 in the league, no one else is, that's why they're the top 3. But you know what, they're all employed and not going anywhere, so we need to stop comparing him to them. He's more than capable of working with his staff to improve their own strategies and improve the players they have. If management makes the right decisions and somehow manages to improve the talent level on the team, I think he and his staff will be capable of developing a better and better team. Without better talent though, I think the fan base will quickly swing in the other direction and start grumbling and much much worse. Hopefully they can sustain what they had this year but people have to realize how little precedent there is for cinderella runs to last forever.
I am not expecting a top 3 coach to coach the raptors. I simply wanted the organization to look and see if someone out there who is better than Casey. This team always settles. That's what irks me. I personally don't think Casey should be even in the top 10 coaches in the league. We have had him for a while now and his flaws are still the same. He may improve, but I am skeptical. We'll agree to disagree on his competence. But you do bring a valid point about the talent. Ultimately talent is the one that decides the destiny of a team. I am curious on how MU is going to build this team through trades and Free agency. And you are spot on about fans turning on GM if the team starts misfiring. After all BC was God once here.
As for Canucks, I think they made some very curious moves. Having softies like Sedins and then bringing a hard nosed coach like Tortorella to coach the team. What were they thinking?

ink
05-08-2014, 03:17 PM
Personally I think the biggest issue is that MU has already decided on his core. The other team I follow closely, the Vancouver Canucks, made a huge mistake in misidentifying their core and really selling the hell out of those familiar personalities, and ultimately fell short. Had they not rushed to try to market the personalities of the "core" players to connect with their loyal audience I think they would have come up with a superior team. Some of it's timing and some of it's being brutally realistic about the development potential of what they have. It's good, but is it great? Only great wins. As a coach I think Casey is absolutely fine. No, he's not one of the top 3 in the league, no one else is, that's why they're the top 3. But you know what, they're all employed and not going anywhere, so we need to stop comparing him to them. He's more than capable of working with his staff to improve their own strategies and improve the players they have. If management makes the right decisions and somehow manages to improve the talent level on the team, I think he and his staff will be capable of developing a better and better team. Without better talent though, I think the fan base will quickly swing in the other direction and start grumbling and much much worse. Hopefully they can sustain what they had this year but people have to realize how little precedent there is for cinderella runs to last forever.
I am not expecting a top 3 coach to coach the raptors. I simply wanted the organization to look and see if someone out there who is better than Casey. This team always settles. That's what irks me. I personally don't think Casey should be even in the top 10 coaches in the league. We have had him for a while now and his flaws are still the same. He may improve, but I am skeptical. We'll agree to disagree on his competence. But you do bring a valid point about the talent. Ultimately talent is the one that decides the destiny of a team. I am curious on how MU is going to build this team through trades and Free agency. And you are spot on about fans turning on GM if the team starts misfiring. After all BC was God once here.
As for Canucks, I think they made some very curious moves. Having softies like Sedins and then bringing a hard nosed coach like Tortorella to coach the team. What were they thinking?

Not to pull this thread off topic but the marketing the Canucks have used through the whole Sedin-Kesler period is "We Are All Canucks".

Sound familiar "We The North" fans?

killersweet
05-08-2014, 03:56 PM
Not to pull this thread off topic but the marketing the Canucks have used through the whole Sedin-Kesler period is "We Are All Canucks".

Sound familiar "We The North" fans?

haha, well, I hope it turns out better for us. And why r we labeling us North? I was curious. Isn't Minneapolis north of us?

ink
05-08-2014, 05:42 PM
haha, well, I hope it turns out better for us. And why r we labeling us North? I was curious. Isn't Minneapolis north of us?

That's America. In Vancouver we're apparently in the NW according to them. But in Canada we're in the SW. Go figure.

albertajaysfan
05-08-2014, 06:15 PM
That's America. In Vancouver we're apparently in the NW according to them. But in Canada we're in the SW. Go figure.

Vancoucer is in the Pacific NW though regardless of geopolitical perspective.

You are spot on in terms of the danger of this core and the parallel to the Canucks. That is where remaining objective regarding the players you have is so important. Knowing when to unload players is the difference between a good GM and a great one. Only time will tell for this topic. Hopefully Masai didn't use up all his magic unloading Bargnani and Gay.

ink
05-09-2014, 12:05 AM
That's America. In Vancouver we're apparently in the NW according to them. But in Canada we're in the SW. Go figure.

Vancoucer is in the Pacific NW though regardless of geopolitical perspective.

You are spot on in terms of the danger of this core and the parallel to the Canucks. That is where remaining objective regarding the players you have is so important. Knowing when to unload players is the difference between a good GM and a great one. Only time will tell for this topic. Hopefully Masai didn't use up all his magic unloading Bargnani and Gay.

The map I'm looking at puts Alaska in the Pacific nw. ;) we are in the pacific north-middle at best.

I agree that a good GM needs to know how and when to move a player. Sentiment or hanging onto someone to prove yourself right can't get in the way.

albertajaysfan
05-09-2014, 05:30 PM
The map I'm looking at puts Alaska in the Pacific nw. ;) we are in the pacific north-middle at best.

I agree that a good GM needs to know how and when to move a player. Sentiment or hanging onto someone to prove yourself right can't get in the way.

You must have a very Northern Hemisphere centric view of the world ;) lol

I really hope we have a GM who won't fall into that trap.