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View Full Version : Does Vogel get fired?



xnick5757
04-29-2014, 11:23 AM
Indiana's currently down 3-2 to the #8 seed, Atlanta. Vogel has been at the helm of one of, if not the, absolute worse collapses in NBA history (remember, at one point during the season the Pacers were 33-7!).

What the heck happened to the Pacers?

Crackadalic
04-29-2014, 11:26 AM
Think the owner or gm stated regardless what happens vogal stays

Heatcheck
04-29-2014, 11:42 AM
I think it would be a mistake, they've clearly improved every year since hes gotten there and stability can only help and organization.

todu82
04-29-2014, 11:57 AM
Wouldn't surprise me, that team has really faltered over the course of this season.

Wade n Fade
04-29-2014, 12:12 PM
Simple. Chemistry. Trade away the Rubber Cement Glue or Granger and get low basketball IQ Evan Turner and Lavoy Allen. Roy Hibbert gets exposed. Late season failures and it piles up. It's a Larry Bird issue.

LAKobeBryant
04-29-2014, 12:29 PM
vogal? did you just wake up and watch the highlights

Tony_Starks
04-29-2014, 01:12 PM
Vogel
McHale
Mark Jackson

All will be looking for work.

KobeOwnSU
04-29-2014, 01:16 PM
I hope not. This is on the players. You don't lose the way they have in this series and not blame the players. These guys are playing for themselves. Something happened in that locker room between the players.

P&GRealist
04-29-2014, 01:19 PM
Vogel
McHale
Mark Jackson

All will be looking for work.
Funny how they're solid coaches and will be looking for work this summer while a guy like Mike D'Antoni still has a job and looking to get a an extra yrs team option picked up.

This world makes no sense.

utl768
04-29-2014, 01:19 PM
you cant collapse like that and keep status quo

ombada
04-29-2014, 01:34 PM
I dont believe he will be fired, but if he is, they need to bring in Mark Jackson.

Tony_Starks
04-29-2014, 01:35 PM
Funny how they're solid coaches and will be looking for work this summer while a guy like Mike D'Antoni still has a job and looking to get a an extra yrs team option picked up.

This world makes no sense.

Man don't even get me started. I'd take any three of those guys over DAntoni in a heartbeat!!!

blastmasta26
04-29-2014, 01:46 PM
I think Vogel is a good coach, and I don't feel he deserves the blame for this collapse.

hoosiercubsfan
04-29-2014, 04:29 PM
Simple. Chemistry. Trade away the Rubber Cement Glue or Granger and get low basketball IQ Evan Turner and Lavoy Allen. Roy Hibbert gets exposed. Late season failures and it piles up. It's a Larry Bird issue.

It may be a Larry Bird issue. Though Larry Legend certainly isn't going to take the fall for this. Vogel has been thoroughly out coached by the Hawks coach (not even gonna try and spell it). When things clearly weren't working he still stuck with it because that is how he got there. It only took the team being down by freaking 30 points before they put Copeland in and that is when the team made its attempted comeback. No if they lose this series it will be purely on Vogel's shoulders. And I do believe he will be fired as a result. Especially when Bird had to be convinced to hire him long term in the first place being he wasn't Larry's guy. They are not a young raw team losing Granger should not have made this huge of an impact.

2-ONE-5
04-29-2014, 04:46 PM
Simple. Chemistry. Trade away the Rubber Cement Glue or Granger and get low basketball IQ Evan Turner and Lavoy Allen. Roy Hibbert gets exposed. Late season failures and it piles up. It's a Larry Bird issue.

this has nothing to do with it

Sly Guy
04-29-2014, 04:49 PM
it wouldn't surprise me if they did, but I think that's the wrong decision. The chemistry is gone, it's not a matter of x's and o's, it's about the makeup of the team.

zn23
04-29-2014, 06:20 PM
They should release Hibbert's bum *** instead.

hoosiercubsfan
04-29-2014, 08:25 PM
They should release Hibbert's bum *** instead.

As a Pacer fan I disagree. He was really good the first half of the season. You don't release someone for a bad half year of basketball. It is kind of known that he isn't the strongest guy mentally. And I wonder if Bird didn't misfire bringing in Bynum even if he only played in two games. Hibbert was reportedly stressing about losing playing time the moment he was signed. That combined with the team starting into their tail spin at that point I am sure didn't help either.

zn23
04-29-2014, 08:36 PM
I don't think you realize just how bad he's playing. He's rivaling Jermaine O'Neal's playoff run in 2009-2010, and Kendrick Perkins playoff run of last year... That's REALLY bad.

Ill21
04-29-2014, 08:41 PM
Either Vogel goes or they need to make some moves with the roster. Clearly there are major issues in that locker room

NBA_Starter
04-29-2014, 08:55 PM
I think if they lose this series he has to be gone..

hoosiercubsfan
04-29-2014, 09:45 PM
I don't think you realize just how bad he's playing. He's rivaling Jermaine O'Neal's playoff run in 2009-2010, and Kendrick Perkins playoff run of last year... That's REALLY bad.

I live in Indianapolis. Yes I know exactly how bad he is playing. It is the constant topic of conversation almost everywhere. The Hawks are an awful match-up for him regardless of if he had been playing well otherwise. He is best when he is able to be that rim protector/enforcer that is his bread and butter. He is worthless when drawn out of the paint to defend being just to damn slow to be able to get back. I think that is being completely missed in this conversation.

That is why this is on Vogel. Everyone and their brother knows that Hibbert is terrible in this series and they keep going back to him. His lack of being willing to change the lineup from the get go not when they are down 30 is what is going to prove to be his undoing here in Indianapolis. If he doesn't give Copeland a large share of minutes tomorrow night he should be fired the moment they get beat. He is the Pacers version of Kyle Korver spreading the floor with his ability to hit the 3 that even if he isn't hitting he still spreads the floor just being out there. They have settled for far to many jump shots instead of driving to the rim or feeding it to West when he constantly has a mismatch. With Copeland out there this simply becomes easier to do. Though he has languished on the bench all season only making it out for mop up time.

rapsoncha
04-30-2014, 01:39 AM
Late season failures and it piles up. It's a Larry Bird issue.

P&GRealist
04-30-2014, 04:20 AM
Lance Stephenson is gone this summer. Dude is going to get overpaid by someone.

arlubas
04-30-2014, 05:30 AM
Vogel is one of the best coaches in the league and I don't think Larry Legend doesn't recognize that. Paul George was supposed to be your superstar but he never lived up to that. Also Roy Hibbert has been non existent, imo he never really was that good to begin with and I've watched him since Georgetown. The guy is a nice C when he's on but I fail to realize how with his averages and clear lack of a dominating demeanor he has been regarded as a clear cut ASG starter these past seasons. If he was in the 90s he would be a starter on a lottery team, he just takes advantage of this era but even that hasn't saved him this year. Something that I didn't see coming but obviously hurt them in the long run was also the Evan Turner trade, it obviously disrupted the team's balance for whatever reasons.

PurpleLynch
04-30-2014, 05:38 AM
I'm sad for Vogel,I think he's a good coach and he's not responsible for the shitstorm that hit the Pacers this year.Fights in the locker room,Granger's gone,chemistry messed up,George and Hibbert behaving like kids and getting big personal problems in their life:these are the the problems that led the Pacers to this.
Unfortunately this big fiasco could mean the end for him as a Pacer's coach. But he won't be alone,we have to wait to see how Jackson and Mchale will do in this first round.

slashsnake
04-30-2014, 07:01 AM
As a Pacer fan I disagree. He was really good the first half of the season. You don't release someone for a bad half year of basketball. It is kind of known that he isn't the strongest guy mentally. And I wonder if Bird didn't misfire bringing in Bynum even if he only played in two games. Hibbert was reportedly stressing about losing playing time the moment he was signed. That combined with the team starting into their tail spin at that point I am sure didn't help either.

I don't know though.. This is a pretty awful drop for Hibbert, and nobody really was saying Bynum would be their dominant big. That's a pretty weak situation to become a guy who's numbers say he should be a benchwarmer now. The tail spin I think was largely due to Hibberts play.

As for Vogel, I wouldn't have an issue if he was let go. He doesn't strike me as one of those few coaches who truly make a difference. Had a good past few years with a talented team, but so have a lot of others. If he doesn't get out of the first round, ehhh if Bird thinks it is the best move, go for it.

arlubas
04-30-2014, 09:21 AM
Hibbert was reportedly stressing about losing playing time the moment he was signed.
Well that happens to every player whose team signs a solid backup. It certainly doesn't warrant the kind of meltdown Hibbert went through.

torocan
04-30-2014, 09:41 AM
Vogel's probably gone, but you really can't blame the guy too much. He was a good coach last year and the first half of this year. He didn't suddenly forget how to coach post-all star break.

Larry Legend upset the apple cart in an attempt to improve the roster and it just didn't pay off. The Players are also letting stuff get into their head due to high expectations. And the players are not dealing with adversity particularly well.

Is Vogel in over his head right now? Probably. However it's probably not fair to hold that against him. The Hawks are a terrible match up for the Pacers, and Budenholzer in my view is a significantly better coach than Vogel. Budenholzer may be a first year coach, but he has WAY more championship coaching experience than Vogel. Budenholzer has 4 championship rings from his time on the Spurs working with one of the greatest head coaches in NBA history.

Bad chemistry + bad match up + Championship tested coach on the Hawks = bad outcome for the Pacers.

Still, if the Pacers exit in the first round I think Vogel is gone. Larry Legend doesn't like him and a play off exit would give him just the excuse he needs to serve Vogel his walking papers.

MrfadeawayJB
04-30-2014, 10:16 AM
Not yet but the pacers roster will look different next season.

PhillyFaninLA
04-30-2014, 10:35 AM
The don't fire him. He was doing great until the GM picked up bad locker room guy Evan Turner who is not living up to ability and never healthy Bynum.

Both guys they let walk in the offseason and they are back to normal.

2-ONE-5
04-30-2014, 10:47 AM
The don't fire him. He was doing great until the GM picked up bad locker room guy Evan Turner who is not living up to ability and never healthy Bynum.

Both guys they let walk in the offseason and they are back to normal.

the problem started before they got there and has nothing to do with them

slashsnake
04-30-2014, 11:49 AM
The don't fire him. He was doing great until the GM picked up bad locker room guy Evan Turner who is not living up to ability and never healthy Bynum.

Both guys they let walk in the offseason and they are back to normal.

Not sure about that... Bynum? Turner? These guys barely play. If that is all it takes to break up a team from a #1 seed to not even able to win a series against a sub .500 team without their best player, they are pretty fragile.