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ScottFromCanada
04-23-2014, 11:08 AM
If anyone knows anything about fixing sports it's this man so maybe we should pay attention.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/disgraced-ex-ref-donaghy-says-nba-pressuring-officials-to-side-with-nets-over-raptors-042314?cmpid=tsmtw:fscom:foxsports

LongIslandIcedZ
04-23-2014, 11:15 AM
I don't totally buy it, but I wouldn't be completely shocked.

It might not be Heat vs Knicks/Lakers/Celtics, but Heat vs Nets is big money for the NBA. Nets have more star power as well, and star power gets the benefit of calls.

When I was watching the Heat vs Charlotte, the first thing I saw was Lebron push a guy off him, just to get a foul called in his favor. It should have been 100% an offensive foul, but the stars seem to get the calls.

Now I don't know if that is just a star getting a call, or the refs making sure Miami wins. I'm inclined to go with the former. But if hard proof came out that the NBA tipped the scales in favor of the star teams, I certainly wouldn't be surprised.

xnick5757
04-23-2014, 11:17 AM
Donaghy is a joke, simply fishing for news time.


Toronto is the largest city in Canada, and the 5th largest market in north america



the nets have also had more fouls called on them this series, 45 vs 44 for toronto

FYL_McVeezy
04-23-2014, 11:19 AM
If anyone knows anything about fixing sports it's this man so maybe we should pay attention.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/disgraced-ex-ref-donaghy-says-nba-pressuring-officials-to-side-with-nets-over-raptors-042314?cmpid=tsmtw:fscom:foxsports

Those know, know. Those who don't, dont. To those who know what's going on in the NBA and professional sports, it pretty obvious.

FYL_McVeezy
04-23-2014, 11:22 AM
Now I don't know if that is just a star getting a call, or the refs making sure Miami wins. I'm inclined to go with the former. But if hard proof came out that the NBA tipped the scales in favor of the star teams, I certainly wouldn't be surprised.

Rigging games is an art and hard to detect by an untrained eye LOL. You can't simply look at who got more fouls over the course of the game. Basketball is a game of runs. A refs call or no call can spark a run for a team they are favoring.

That's all I'll really say about it. I hate discussing this subject on this forum but it is something that interests me. As anything that has a line in Vegas it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$.....

ScottFromCanada
04-23-2014, 11:31 AM
Rigging games is an art and hard to detect by an untrained eye LOL. You can't simply look at who got more fouls over the course of the game. Basketball is a game of runs. A refs call or no call can spark a run for a team they are favoring.

That's all I'll really say about it. I hate discussing this subject on this forum but it is something that interests me. As anything that has a line in Vegas it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$.....

The most frustrating thing about the NBA is how inconsistent the refs are even when there isn't some ulterior motive. Some refs will let you get way with grabbing, hacking, etc other will give you calls for breathing on someone it's really frustrating to watch as a fan. If the NBA is actually doing this, which I personally believe it is, it's terrible for the growth of the game Toronto could give you those big TV numbers if the NBA stopped turning everyone off it with their BS.

ManRam
04-23-2014, 11:32 AM
:yawn:

LanceUpperCut
04-23-2014, 11:44 AM
Donaghy is scum and mostly all of his comments are to simply get into the spot light but like Canseco and others(guy who accused Armstrong of doping) they were right in many aspects.

I hate agreeing with this topic sounding like I'm a sour Raps fan cause so far other then the end of the game last night when their were two very questionable calls that were nothing more then get this team back in the game type calls it's been pretty even. This to me has nothing to do with this series but more or less just in general for so called smaller markets or younger teams.

wizardsfan3
04-23-2014, 11:58 AM
If anyone knows anything about fixing sports it's this man so maybe we should pay attention.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/disgraced-ex-ref-donaghy-says-nba-pressuring-officials-to-side-with-nets-over-raptors-042314?cmpid=tsmtw:fscom:foxsports

Those know, know. Those who don't, dont. To those who know what's going on in the NBA and professional sports, it pretty obvious.

Exactly.

torocan
04-23-2014, 12:08 PM
Only the truly naive could possibly think that there isn't big money behind the scenes putting pressure on these games and teams, whether it's the NBA or organized crime.

Think about this logically. Organized crime is a multi-billion dollar enterprise. Legal gambling is a multi-billion dollar industry. The NBA is a multi-billion dollar industry. Do you really think that NONE of them have their fingers in the industry either through the players or the referees? You might as well tell yourself that there's no corruption in politics. There's just TOO much money for people NOT to be getting involved behind the scenes.

Do you think ANY of them care which fans get shafted? They care about the almighty dollar, and that means ratings and point shaving.

Donaghy was a crook and has a vested interest, but let's not fool ourselves. What are the REAL odds that he's the ONLY referee that is compromised in the NBA? Does anyone doubt the existence of "home court" calls during the regular season? Or that some teams get MORE calls than others? Or that Superstar calls are an accident?

And there are a LOT of ways to get at someone. Through them, their families, their friends, their bosses... you think Organized crime grew through being nice?

I would not be surprised if there's more than a few people behind the scenes pushing buttons trying to get different outcomes.

And that's before you even talk about veteran calls, superstar calls and home cooking...

Miltstar
04-23-2014, 12:23 PM
watching the first two games as a Raptors fan albeit it felt like Brooklyn was getting away with a lot more than Toronto, especially Valencunas as he's been called for a few bad ones around the hoop. There were back to back charge/block situations late in game 2 very similar plays and both calls went in favour of the nets. Even Jack Armstrong has been very vocal about the officiating and I for one love it, its too bad league officials probably arent even watching the game haha

ThuglifeJ
04-23-2014, 12:31 PM
Come on guys I'm for Toronto but stop lining up excuses. It shows you aren't confident.
No way they are fixing this series both rack in money

Chronz
04-23-2014, 12:32 PM
Lets just keep in mind that Donaghy is so bad at identifying rigged games, his own mob partners refused to bet on the games he deemed to be rig worthy.

Sorry guys but the almighty dollar doesn't drive everything, everywhere. Not when there is money to lose for the NBA and not when there is money to be gained by exposing it. Oh wait, those 2 revolve around money, so I guess the argument works both ways.

ScottFromCanada
04-23-2014, 12:51 PM
Come on guys I'm for Toronto but stop lining up excuses. It shows you aren't confident.
No way they are fixing this series both rack in money

All it shows is that we aren't confident in the league not our teams ability.

Red_Pill
04-23-2014, 12:53 PM
Come on guys I'm for Toronto but stop lining up excuses. It shows you aren't confident.
No way they are fixing this series both rack in money

We aren't confident? What is that supposed to mean? Sometimes I wonder if you even think before you post. We're sitting at home watching a bunch of grown men play sports for money. Big money. Of course games are rigged to an extent. Basketball is one of the easier ones to rig. I don't think every game is, but important ones most certainly are. You have to be incredibly dumb or naive to believe fixing games doesn't exist.

Red_Pill
04-23-2014, 12:55 PM
Sorry guys but the almighty dollar doesn't drive everything, everywhere. Not when there is money to lose for the NBA and not when there is money to be gained by exposing it. Oh wait, those 2 revolve around money, so I guess the argument works both ways.

Two things drive ALL things. Money and power. Not many people have to be in on the scam. Just important higher-ups. That's all you'd need to perpetrate this and get away with it. As for exposing it, why would you expose it if you're in on it?

ghettosean
04-23-2014, 12:56 PM
the league is about ratings and money and Miami vs Nets would be more revenue generating than Raptors vs Miami....

I was at the past 2 games and even though people might not buy it I was watching some clearly one sided calls where I'm screaming at the players --> "You're being cheated your going to have to beat the refs too". Players looked extremely frustrated the last couple games. If they win this series I'll be beyond proud of these guys!!!

I was calling this before this thread was created in other threads also... I don't doubt for a second the league is rigged in certain games and series to make some extra cash.

Goose17
04-23-2014, 01:06 PM
LOL, first of all Donaghy needs to change his name too "look at me" he's always talking trash about this sort of crap, you think he doesn't get paid for this? smh.


Secondly anyone who thinks the NBA is rigged is either very small minded or hasn't thought it through, does anyone realise how ****ing difficult it would be to rig an entire game, never mind an entire series or an entire season let alone the entire league, every year. There's no way you would get away with it for this long without someone exposing it with concrete proof.

TheIlladelph16
04-23-2014, 01:10 PM
Just like every other time this is brought up, this is pure nonsense. If you believe Tim ****ing Donaghy is doing anything other than trying to get press, I question your basic intelligence.

torocan
04-23-2014, 01:19 PM
LOL, first of all Donaghy needs to change his name too "look at me" he's always talking trash about this sort of crap, you think he doesn't get paid for this? smh.


Secondly anyone who thinks the NBA is rigged is either very small minded or hasn't thought it through, does anyone realise how ****ing difficult it would be to rig an entire game, never mind an entire series or an entire season let alone the entire league, every year. There's no way you would get away with it for this long without someone exposing it with concrete proof.

It's stupidly easy to rig a game if you get a referee on board. Think about how many calls are 50/50, judgement calls or bang-bang calls.

Touch foul - let it go or call it
3s defensive rule - let it slide or call it
Charge/block - call it for one side or the other
Goal tending/offensive interference - on the rim or off
Physical play - let it slide or call it
Technical foul - call it for a stare, or let it slide despite them being in your face
Moving screen - call it or let it slide

That's all you have to do to shave points or swing momentum. Let an opposing star get roughed up or call them on touch fouls. Swing a couple charge/blocks at critical junctures of the game. Call a defensive 3s to give the opposing team free points on the board.

Stack 3 fouls on an opposing player and they're out for half the game. And all it takes is an unfavorable whistle or two to nail them.

Thinking that it's "hard" to rig a game is a joke, especially in basketball when you have SO many possessions and many of those calls are NOT subject to review.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 01:20 PM
Two things drive ALL things. Money and power. Not many people have to be in on the scam. Just important higher-ups. That's all you'd need to perpetrate this and get away with it. As for exposing it, why would you expose it if you're in on it?
Alot of people have to be in on it to make it an effective option on this scale. And there will always be guys looking to expose it for personal gain.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 01:20 PM
You have to be incredibly dumb or naive to believe fixing games doesn't exist.
Or simply not paranoid.

Red_Pill
04-23-2014, 01:22 PM
LOL, first of all Donaghy needs to change his name too "look at me" he's always talking trash about this sort of crap, you think he doesn't get paid for this? smh.


Secondly anyone who thinks the NBA is rigged is either very small minded or hasn't thought it through, does anyone realise how ****ing difficult it would be to rig an entire game, never mind an entire series or an entire season let alone the entire league, every year. There's no way you would get away with it for this long without someone exposing it with concrete proof.

Actually, I'd say you're the small-minded one for thinking it's not a realistic possibility. You really don't need that many people in on it to make it work. Corruption is everywhere from your local police department all the way too your United States Congress. You're incredibly naive to think it's not a possibility.

Red_Pill
04-23-2014, 01:27 PM
Or simply not paranoid.

Disagree with that assessment. When something large is at stake, people will cheat. It's human nature.

ScottFromCanada
04-23-2014, 01:30 PM
LOL, first of all Donaghy needs to change his name too "look at me" he's always talking trash about this sort of crap, you think he doesn't get paid for this? smh.


Secondly anyone who thinks the NBA is rigged is either very small minded or hasn't thought it through, does anyone realise how ****ing difficult it would be to rig an entire game, never mind an entire series or an entire season let alone the entire league, every year. There's no way you would get away with it for this long without someone exposing it with concrete proof.

Don't know how you can say that when Donaghy is living proof of exactly what you're saying doesn't exist.

Red_Pill
04-23-2014, 01:31 PM
Alot of people have to be in on it to make it an effective option on this scale. And there will always be guys looking to expose it for personal gain.

How many people would you estimate would have to be in on it?

All you need are a few dirty officials appointed to key games, a few league executives...like I said, I don't believe the entire league is rigged. Just certain elements in some games.

As someone pointed out, basketball is a game of runs. All you need is one call or no-call to swing the game into a teams favor which could easily be explained away as "a bad call".

thunderforce
04-23-2014, 01:32 PM
We will see by the next few games I think .

AddiX
04-23-2014, 01:46 PM
Lets just keep in mind that Donaghy is so bad at identifying rigged games, his own mob partners refused to bet on the games he deemed to be rig worthy.

Sorry guys but the almighty dollar doesn't drive everything, everywhere. Not when there is money to lose for the NBA and not when there is money to be gained by exposing it. Oh wait, those 2 revolve around money, so I guess the argument works both ways.

I don't know how legit it is when he calls a game "rig worthy", but as a ref he was the surest bet in town. Those who knew about him made a killing.

This went on for a long time, it's almost impossible to imagine the NBA wasn't keeping stats on these guys to follow trends. The whole thing is very fishy.

You can't watch the NBA and not notice when the NBA refs decide to push a certain team or a certain star.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 01:50 PM
I don't know how legit it is when he calls a game "rig worthy", but as a ref he was the surest bet in town. Those who knew about him made a killing.

This went on for a long time, it's almost impossible to imagine the NBA wasn't keeping stats on these guys to follow trends. The whole thing is very fishy.

You can't watch the NBA and not notice when the NBA refs decide to push a certain team or a certain star.

Agree to disagree, I dont get the same vibe you do and I know how illegitimate his betting was. Then again, dude had to spew alot of lies to stay out of jail so maybe he was covering his ***. All I know is that I dont trust him and his claims have been proven to be rooted in fiction.

Goose17
04-23-2014, 01:51 PM
Don't know how you can say that when Donaghy is living proof of exactly what you're saying doesn't exist.

Donaghy was a rogue ref who altered the point spread, he didn't rig the outcome of the games.



It's stupidly easy to rig a game if you get a referee on board. Think about how many calls are 50/50, judgement calls or bang-bang calls.

Touch foul - let it go or call it
3s defensive rule - let it slide or call it
Charge/block - call it for one side or the other
Goal tending/offensive interference - on the rim or off
Physical play - let it slide or call it
Technical foul - call it for a stare, or let it slide despite them being in your face
Moving screen - call it or let it slide

That's all you have to do to shave points or swing momentum. Let an opposing star get roughed up or call them on touch fouls. Swing a couple charge/blocks at critical junctures of the game. Call a defensive 3s to give the opposing team free points on the board.

Stack 3 fouls on an opposing player and they're out for half the game. And all it takes is an unfavorable whistle or two to nail them.

Thinking that it's "hard" to rig a game is a joke, especially in basketball when you have SO many possessions and many of those calls are NOT subject to review.


LOL, the fact that you think it's that simple is hilarious.

How do you convince the other refs to side with you? How do you explain yourself to your supervisor? Who told you to rig it? Who told them to tell you to rig it? How do you hide it from the owners of the franchise and the players? How do you hide it from all of the other officials? Unless you think everyone is in on it? How do you convince a franchise to allow you to make them lose? How do you convince all of the referees to call the game crooked? How does nobody, in the thousands of employees, with modern technology and surrounded by social media never find out about it or never catch anyone at it?

The NBA rules are so open to interpretation, more so than any other sport, there's a lot of gray area and 50/50 calls that go in favor of the "big" team are automatically written off as rigged. It's pathetic. And it's a typical conspiracy theory, because it's impossible to prove anyone wrong due to the gray area. "A popular team or player benefits from a refereeing decision, it's impossible to prove otherwise because all calls are judgement calls, therefore the NBA is rigging games." :facepalm:


What's the end game? Money? The Knicks are worth more than any other basketball franchise in the world, why would you NOT rig it for them to win a championship? That would make more money than any other possibility. Toronto is a significantly bigger market than Brooklyn (most New Yorkers are still Knicks fans, you're essentially comparing NJ and Toronto, it's not even close), so why rig it for the team that will bring in less money from succeeding? The Chicago Bulls are one of the top 3 most profitable franchises, why not rig their games? Why not rig it for Rose to defeat Lebron when they met? Boston and Lakers are also in the top 5 most profitable franchises, why not rig the games for them or rig a trade to make them more successful? The Warriors have been awful for decades and yet their market size and fan support would result in a MASSIVE profit for the league if they were to win it all, same with the Clippers. Philly has the biggest TV market in the entire league, why not rig it for them? They've been awful for a few years now. What about Dallas? Another huge market, what about Atlanta? Another huge market. There's no logic to rigging games like this, it would require too many people to be "in" on it and would be far too difficult to pull off on any sort of consistent basis, and are you really going to risk the integrity of an entire league to help a team that will bring in less money succeed? What the hell is that? Worst conspiracy ever.

Why is it when Dirk and the cinderella Mavericks defeat the hated Miami, it's a legitimate victory and when Miami or a more hated team wins, it's rigged? Is it because people let their bias get in the way of logic and allow it to cloud their judgement and make them stupid? Possibly? Maybe? Definitely.

AddiX
04-23-2014, 01:59 PM
Agree to disagree, I dont get the same vibe you do and I know how illegitimate his betting was. Then again, dude had to spew alot of lies to stay out of jail so maybe he was covering his ***. All I know is that I dont trust him and his claims have been proven to be rooted in fiction.

Where was it proven wrong that he was shaving points for bookies? Everything I saw, said bookies and gamblers were killing it betting on his games, some bookies wouldn't even take bets on his games.

And as far as rigged games goes, if you watched Dallas vs Heat in the championship the first time, I find it almost impossible anyone can try to say that series wasn't rigged for Mia. That was the most ridiculous thing I ever seen and I was actually a huge wade fan at that time. Defenders would be 5-6 away from him and he was getting foul calls, it was inane.

I thought it was obvious NBA wanted Mia to win, and they wanted to make wade the next MJ.

John Walls Era
04-23-2014, 02:11 PM
Not surprised.

tredigs
04-23-2014, 02:17 PM
After I saw another more detailed article on this a day or two ago where he singled out two refs in particular that he said "those of us know to be 'homer refs', who will easily be swayed by a raucous home crowd", I decided to look up their home ATS (against the spread) records. One was exactly 50/50 and the other was I believe 7 games in favor of the ROAD team. I did not bother looking up prior years, but I thought that was a very telling little nugget onto any further insight he had on this series or any other.

His track record of public false-predictions speaks for itself. The guy has no ****ing clue what he's talking about (or he does, and is simply trolling all the tin-hat kids with false info), former failed NBA ref or not.

macc
04-23-2014, 02:21 PM
This convo will never die. Bottom line is games don't get fixed. Sure throughout our history I'm sure there has been a ref or two who have possibly been bribed. Everything can be corrupt but I don't think that is how the NBA operates. I don't think David Stern (or the new comish) has these guys actually go out there and rig games. Why do I think this? Because the business of the NBA is successful. The NBA does a great job at selling it's stars. It's worked for years and still works to this day.

Imagine if news broke that David Stern was telling Refs to rig games. The NBA would almost immediately lose credibility and people would lose interest. Noone wants to think the NBA is just another version of WWE. So WHY would anyone risk losing a multi billion dollar business to rig a playoff game to get a few hundred thousand more viewers for a 7 game series? When it comes to the playoffs the great teams are the ones that end up playing each other anyways. So rigging one game or a couple in a series means literally nothing in the grand scheme of it all.

I can understand there are bad calls made. Realize the refs are human. We are emotional watching the games on our TVs at home. Imagine being there, in the enviroment with the screaming fans behind you. I'm sure there are emotional calls made to help the home team. I don't think that means it's rigged. I just think that's human nature and things happen. Typically in the end BOTH teams will get calls that they prob shouldn't have gotten. This doesn't mean it's a huge conspiracy.

Look at Duck Dynasty. Something like the #1 show on tv (or close to it). Article comes out showing they were all american rich family with no beards. Their entire get up was just for TV. Once that article came out their viewers dropped by 30%! They've had to cancel shows on their tour due to lack of sales. Once you take the validity out of something then it slowly dies. The NBA is simply not going to have a conspiracy of rigging games just to get a few more viewers. That doesn't make sense. The reward is not worth the risk of losing a successful business.

So please, STOP with the conspiracy stories of rigged games. If you think there is validity to that then figure it out. Connect the dots. Stop saying "OMG IT"S RIGGED" then presenting nothing but the play at hand.

Reffing basketball is tough. Period. Now take it to the pro level where everything is that much faster. Refs get the calls right like 95-97% of the time. So how can anyone come to the conclusion that it's rigged? When we watch replays 4-5 times and it's STILL unclear that shows you how hard it is for these guys. Bad calls happen. Go out and do better yourself. I dare you.

I'll make one more point. Who are the ones always claiming the game is rigged? Answer - NOT NBA players, NOT NBA coaches, NOT NBA owners who have billions invested.....but NBA fans. Hmmmm, let's think about this for a min....

FlashBolt
04-23-2014, 02:29 PM
I call bluff. This guy just needs someone to listen to him. He was convicted and is probably furious so he tries to bring NBA down. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of fishy business behind curtains but that's for every sport. I don't think it's fixed entirely. Last year proved it when Miami were down and had a miraculous three to end up tying the game. NBA would never orchestrate something of that degree. Too much risk. Are some calls suspect? Yes, but refereeing is one of the toughest jobs in the world. For one, live calls. They don't have the 2-3 minutes of replay action unless the game warrants it. They have to base it off what they did or didn't see most of the time. Easy for you guys to rant about a call when you can just DVR it and catch the play in slow-mo/zoomed in. Seriously. Joey Crawford is probably the only suspect referee.

Goose17
04-23-2014, 02:40 PM
This convo will never die. Bottom line is games don't get fixed. Sure throughout our history I'm sure there has been a ref or two who have possibly been bribed. Everything can be corrupt but I don't think that is how the NBA operates. I don't think David Stern (or the new comish) has these guys actually go out there and rig games. Why do I think this? Because the business of the NBA is successful. The NBA does a great job at selling it's stars. It's worked for years and still works to this day.

Imagine if news broke that David Stern was telling Refs to rig games. The NBA would almost immediately lose credibility and people would lose interest. Noone wants to think the NBA is just another version of WWE. So WHY would anyone risk losing a multi billion dollar business to rig a playoff game to get a few hundred thousand more viewers for a 7 game series? When it comes to the playoffs the great teams are the ones that end up playing each other anyways. So rigging one game or a couple in a series means literally nothing in the grand scheme of it all.

I can understand there are bad calls made. Realize the refs are human. We are emotional watching the games on our TVs at home. Imagine being there, in the enviroment with the screaming fans behind you. I'm sure there are emotional calls made to help the home team. I don't think that means it's rigged. I just think that's human nature and things happen. Typically in the end BOTH teams will get calls that they prob shouldn't have gotten. This doesn't mean it's a huge conspiracy.

Look at Duck Dynasty. Something like the #1 show on tv (or close to it). Article comes out showing they were all american rich family with no beards. Their entire get up was just for TV. Once that article came out their viewers dropped by 30%! They've had to cancel shows on their tour due to lack of sales. Once you take the validity out of something then it slowly dies. The NBA is simply not going to have a conspiracy of rigging games just to get a few more viewers. That doesn't make sense. The reward is not worth the risk of losing a successful business.

So please, STOP with the conspiracy stories of rigged games. If you think there is validity to that then figure it out. Connect the dots. Stop saying "OMG IT"S RIGGED" then presenting nothing but the play at hand.

Reffing basketball is tough. Period. Now take it to the pro level where everything is that much faster. Refs get the calls right like 95-97% of the time. So how can anyone come to the conclusion that it's rigged? When we watch replays 4-5 times and it's STILL unclear that shows you how hard it is for these guys. Bad calls happen. Go out and do better yourself. I dare you.

I'll make one more point. Who are the ones always claiming the game is rigged? Answer - NOT NBA players, NOT NBA coaches, NOT NBA owners who have billions invested.....but NBA fans. Hmmmm, let's think about this for a min....

Amen.

flea
04-23-2014, 02:44 PM
If you don't think playoff series are ever deliberately influenced by refs then you haven't watched enough Bavetta/Crawford reffed series.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 02:48 PM
Where was it proven wrong that he was shaving points for bookies? Everything I saw, said bookies and gamblers were killing it betting on his games, some bookies wouldn't even take bets on his games.

Big money potential would come in select games. According to him, he would call the game fairly even if it meant he lost money and angered the mob so you really have to do some digging to find out the facts. Because he never really admitted to any of that, if he had, he would prolly be in jail right now. Instead his story was that he didn't even need to fix the spread, he knew the tendencies of the league to predict outcomes. This of course was proven to be BS but the FBI found that there was an abrupt increase in big money game spreads during his reign of terror, those are easy to see and indicative of a rogue ref, its partly why I dont buy the conspiracy talk, every action leaves a trace. Donaghy would have been exposed eventually, depending on how often he chose to break off, and then when he was caught, he denied and lied about most of it.

As for the earnings, well, feel free to do some digging because I think the guy was in debt despite it all and I know his rate of success with his inside info wasn't worth squat, which is the point of this thread.



And as far as rigged games goes, if you watched Dallas vs Heat in the championship the first time, I find it almost impossible anyone can try to say that series wasn't rigged for Mia. That was the most ridiculous thing I ever seen and I was actually a huge wade fan at that time. Defenders would be 5-6 away from him and he was getting foul calls, it was inane.

I thought it was obvious NBA wanted Mia to win, and they wanted to make wade the next MJ.I've seen several break downs of those games, by statisticians and amateur coaches alike, I agree with their assessment more than yours. Bad calls have happened throughout history, some more egregious than others, at some point you're gonna have those calls happen in a market situation that titillates the conspiracy theorists.

GiantsSwaGG
04-23-2014, 02:51 PM
I believe him

Chronz
04-23-2014, 02:54 PM
After I saw another more detailed article on this a day or two ago where he singled out two refs in particular that he said "those of us know to be 'homer refs', who will easily be swayed by a raucous home crowd", I decided to look up their home ATS (against the spread) records. One was exactly 50/50 and the other was I believe 7 games in favor of the ROAD team. I did not bother looking up prior years, but I thought that was a very telling little nugget onto any further insight he had on this series or any other.

His track record of public false-predictions speaks for itself. The guy has no ****ing clue what he's talking about (or he does, and is simply trolling all the tin-hat kids with false info), former failed NBA ref or not.

Remember when he predicted that the Heat would get an absurd number of free throws and went on to see them set a record low FTA for a 7 game Finals?

AddiX
04-23-2014, 02:58 PM
Big money potential would come in select games. According to him, he would call the game fairly even if it meant he lost money and angered the mob so you really have to do some digging to find out the facts. Because he never really admitted to any of that, if he had, he would prolly be in jail right now. Instead his story was that he didn't even need to fix the spread, he knew the tendencies of the league to predict outcomes. This of course was proven to be BS but the FBI found that there was an abrupt increase in big money game spreads during his reign of terror, those are easy to see and indicative of a rogue ref, its partly why I dont buy the conspiracy talk, every action leaves a trace. Donaghy would have been exposed eventually, depending on how often he chose to break off, and then when he was caught, he denied and lied about most of it.

As for the earnings, well, feel free to do some digging because I think the guy was in debt despite it all and I know his rate of success with his inside info wasn't worth squat, which is the point of this thread.


I've seen several break downs of those games, by statisticians and amateur coaches alike, I agree with their assessment more than yours. Bad calls have happened throughout history, some more egregious than others, at some point you're gonna have those calls happen in a market situation that titillates the conspiracy theorists.

if I remember correctly Vegas flat out said something like, if Donaghy was the ref for a game they knew to bet the team getting pts almost every time, or something of that sort. This came from Vegas, not Donaghy, there was also talk about how amazed they were that DonAghy was a NBA ref for so long.

As for the Mia finals, please show me these staticians and amateur coach breakdowns of that series.

I watched that series and rooted for the heat and wade was one of my favorite players at the time, and imo there is no possible way any fan can watch that amd not feel like wade/Mia was getting a ridiculous benefit from the refs.

There's a HUGE difference between a bad call, and an anticipation call, and thats what Wade was getting over and over, anticipation calls, for fouls that mever happened.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 03:00 PM
Disagree with that assessment. When something large is at stake, people will cheat. It's human nature.

Agreed, my argument is that the large thing at stake isn't worth sacrificing for minuscule point spreads.


How many people would you estimate would have to be in on it?
Depends on how influential you think the corruption is. Are you one of those who thinks the league rigs the draft as well?


All you need are a few dirty officials appointed to key games, a few league executives...like I said, I don't believe the entire league is rigged. Just certain elements in some games.

As someone pointed out, basketball is a game of runs. All you need is one call or no-call to swing the game into a teams favor which could easily be explained away as "a bad call".
I dont think its that simple, any beneficial transaction would leave some kind of trace, the league monitors its refs, the feds monitor gambling trends, etc... You cant just get away with things like that in this day and age, at least not forever. If the right people in every sector of government are in on it, then yes, you can get away with alot, but there are always people looking to expose such sinister activity so the clock is ticking no matter what.

John Walls Era
04-23-2014, 03:00 PM
I don't doubt that theres rigging, but only by refs. Theres no way the league would pressure the refs. Its a terrible long term strategy. If it was true, one day a ref may let it slip and all credibility of the NBA goes out the window. No one would watch anymore.

flea
04-23-2014, 03:02 PM
Well even now only a fool would deny the fact that Lebron gets phantom fouls throughout the playoffs. It happened to MKG this year, it happened in the ECF and Finals last year, and it's going to keep happening. Star calls don't just mean they get the benefit of the doubt, they mean the stars don't have to absorb and play through contact like the rest of the league, probably so they can be fresh at the end.

Virtually every NBA fan acknowledges the existence of "star calls," and if that's not a form of rigging then I don't know what is.

ScottFromCanada
04-23-2014, 03:03 PM
If you don't think playoff series are ever deliberately influenced by refs then you haven't watched enough Bavetta/Crawford reffed series.

Tony Brothers and violet Palmer too. Crawford has to be the worst of all though.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 03:03 PM
if I remember correctly Vegas flat out said something like, if Donaghy was the ref for a game they knew to bet the team getting pts almost every time, or something of that sort. This came from Vegas, not Donaghy, there was also talk about how amazed they were that DonAghy was a NBA ref for so long.

As for the Mia finals, please show me these staticians and amateur coach breakdowns of that series.
LOL sure, we can swap links. Ill track down them down if you can find me these statements. IIRC, the league was beginning to catch onto him anyways.


I watched that series and rooted for the heat and wade was one of my favorite players at the time, and imo there is no possible way any fan can watch that amd not feel like wade/Mia was getting a ridiculous benefit from the refs.

There's a HUGE difference between a bad call, and an anticipation call, and thats what Wade was getting over and over, anticipation calls, for fouls that mever happened.
Yes, I've heard the rhetoric, I've already told you I dont agree with your interpretation.

ScottFromCanada
04-23-2014, 03:08 PM
The biggest joke about the NBA is how they fine and suspend coaches and players for "fair" criticisms of refs. If there is video evidence that a ref screwed a team over on multiple occasion why can't people say something? Fines should only be for unfair criticisms of refs.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 03:09 PM
Well even now only a fool would deny the fact that Lebron gets phantom fouls throughout the playoffs. It happened to MKG this year, it happened in the ECF and Finals last year, and it's going to keep happening. Star calls don't just mean they get the benefit of the doubt, they mean the stars don't have to absorb and play through contact like the rest of the league, probably so they can be fresh at the end.

Virtually every NBA fan acknowledges the existence of "star calls," and if that's not a form of rigging then I don't know what is.
Star calls are a result of refs anticipating trends they have observed over time, they get them wrong some time but they also miss some clear ones when they review their performance. Refs could practically call a foul on every possession if you ask me, the subjective nature of some calls it what leads to inconsistent results, thats what pisses fans off, but we dont have robo refs nor an efficient instant replay set up. Better to deal with a some bad calls than have to watch a very slow game in which everything is called.

Sly Guy
04-23-2014, 03:14 PM
Look, I've seen the bad whistle on the Raps a lot over the years, and yeah, I really do think BK has gotten away with a lot in this series, but in all fairness THE OFFICIATING IN THIS SERIES HAS BEEN BETTER THAN I EXPECTED. It may not be ideal, but it's better than I've seen in a lot of other instances regarding the Raptors' getting the shaft on calls.

What's more, is that even if the Raptors lose the series, it's the turnovers that will cost them [in games 1&2 so far] NOT the officials.

As a result, I will save my complaints about officiating when severe injustices present themselves [Lowry's game tying 'offensive foul' 3 for instance], instead of a series like this so far.

JC_
04-23-2014, 03:23 PM
I don't doubt that theres rigging, but only by refs. Theres no way the league would pressure the refs. Its a terrible long term strategy. If it was true, one day a ref may let it slip and all credibility of the NBA goes out the window. No one would watch anymore.

The league decides which calls to focus on for a given game and that usually gives one team an advantage. It's not like these refs are physical specimens with extremely high IQ's. The reason why these guys are NBA refs is because they are the guys who will call the game the way they are told to.

The inconsistency from quarter to quarter/game to game is what bothers most people and instead of saying "why don't we get better referee's?" people say "well refs are only human".

Big Zo
04-23-2014, 03:26 PM
If the NBA was rigged, i'm pretty sure the Knicks would have the most championships, or close to it.

flea
04-23-2014, 03:29 PM
Star calls are a result of refs anticipating trends they have observed over time, they get them wrong some time but they also miss some clear ones when they review their performance. Refs could practically call a foul on every possession if you ask me, the subjective nature of some calls it what leads to inconsistent results, thats what pisses fans off, but we dont have robo refs nor an efficient instant replay set up. Better to deal with a some bad calls than have to watch a very slow game in which everything is called.

So the trends they're identifying are that defenders touch Lebron off the ball so call a foul as soon as he receives a pass? Obviously the refs are coached on what to call, especially in the playoffs, so why do you those ticky tacks on stars like Lebron are called? I'm not saying review every play, just call a consistent game. For all the crappy officiating you have to sit through sometimes in college games they are at least consistent about it.

John Walls Era
04-23-2014, 03:36 PM
The league decides which calls to focus on for a given game and that usually gives one team an advantage. It's not like these refs are physical specimens with extremely high IQ's. The reason why these guys are NBA refs is because they are the guys who will call the game the way they are told to.

The inconsistency from quarter to quarter/game to game is what bothers most people and instead of saying "why don't we get better referee's?" people say "well refs are only human".

But that would be a dumb move heading forward. 1 series for the entire integrity of the league? If word gets out from one of the refs about this, the league would take a huge hit.

John Walls Era
04-23-2014, 03:37 PM
This just sounds like nonsense from a bitter man.

Can't the NBA sue him for slander?

Jeffy25
04-23-2014, 04:03 PM
I hate discussing such a thing, but is it impossible to believe?

Kushed
04-23-2014, 04:17 PM
So when the Raptors win this series now what are you going to say?

If the NBA was rigged it would have been exposed long ago. These athletes who put everything into the sport they love would not stand to lose games for the better of the NBA. Players would boycott. And don't tell me they wouldn't "know about it" because that's just ridiculous.

I saw someone say the refs are pushing for the Heat LOL because the Heat can't destroy the Bobcats without the refs or something? That is absolutely silly. The NBA is going to make ridiculous amounts of money whether it's Toronto or Brooklyn vs Miami.

Kushed
04-23-2014, 04:19 PM
If they cared about making every dollar possible it wouldn't have been Heat vs Spurs last year. It was an amazing series either way but a KD vs LeBron finals would have made top dollar.

AddiX
04-23-2014, 04:29 PM
LOL sure, we can swap links. Ill track down them down if you can find me these statements. IIRC, the league was beginning to catch onto him anyways.


Yes, I've heard the rhetoric, I've already told you I dont agree with your interpretation.

Those studying Donaghy's games might have noticed some trends.
When the home team was favored by 0-4 points, it went 5-12 in games officiated by Donaghy this season, according to Covers.com, a Web site that tracks referee trends. Home underdogs were 1-7 when the spread was 5-9.5 points.

Donaghy was part of a crew working the Heat-Knicks game in New York in February when the Knicks shot 39 free throws to the Heat's eight, technical fouls were called on Heat coach Pat Riley and assistant Ron Rothstein, and the Knicks won by six. New York was favored by 4.

NBA players in Las Vegas for USA Basketball minicamp were surprised and disappointed to learn of the accusations.

Espn

Las Vegas, Nevada (5/17/08) - As more information is released on the Tim Donaghy sports betting scandal, the more incriminating the facts become. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Goldberg said in a letter filed Friday in Brooklyn Federal Court that former NBA referee Tim Donaghy bet on about 14 games that he personally officiated during the 2006-07 season.

Compare that admission to the following fact: The first 15 games of the 2006-07 refereed by Tim Donaghy that had big enough betting to move the point spread by at least 1.5 points were UNDEFEATED against Las Vegas meaning that the big money gamblers won a 15 of 15 times on his games. The odds of that happening randomly are 32,768 to 1 said RJ Bell of Pregame.com.


PETE RUGGIERI thought he had it all, the inside track to winning the majority of bets he would place on the NBA. The method was simple: bet games that Tim Donaghy officiated.

Ruggieri, a noted professional gambler, told federal investigators 2 weeks ago that he picked up a trend over the last several years from betting acquaintances who were winning at a 60 to 70 percent rate on games officiated by the disgraced NBA referee, his lawyer told the Daily News yesterday.



Clear proof that NBA games can and have been rigged..

And ps, just in case your to blind to realize it, "star calls" is NBA fixing games. This exist, and we all know it, so don't sit here and try and act like thats not just another way NBA and there refs control games.

BHF
04-23-2014, 04:30 PM
This convo will never die. Bottom line is games don't get fixed. Sure throughout our history I'm sure there has been a ref or two who have possibly been bribed. Everything can be corrupt but I don't think that is how the NBA operates. I don't think David Stern (or the new comish) has these guys actually go out there and rig games. Why do I think this? Because the business of the NBA is successful. The NBA does a great job at selling it's stars. It's worked for years and still works to this day.

Imagine if news broke that David Stern was telling Refs to rig games. The NBA would almost immediately lose credibility and people would lose interest. Noone wants to think the NBA is just another version of WWE. So WHY would anyone risk losing a multi billion dollar business to rig a playoff game to get a few hundred thousand more viewers for a 7 game series? When it comes to the playoffs the great teams are the ones that end up playing each other anyways. So rigging one game or a couple in a series means literally nothing in the grand scheme of it all.

I can understand there are bad calls made. Realize the refs are human. We are emotional watching the games on our TVs at home. Imagine being there, in the enviroment with the screaming fans behind you. I'm sure there are emotional calls made to help the home team. I don't think that means it's rigged. I just think that's human nature and things happen. Typically in the end BOTH teams will get calls that they prob shouldn't have gotten. This doesn't mean it's a huge conspiracy.

Look at Duck Dynasty. Something like the #1 show on tv (or close to it). Article comes out showing they were all american rich family with no beards. Their entire get up was just for TV. Once that article came out their viewers dropped by 30%! They've had to cancel shows on their tour due to lack of sales. Once you take the validity out of something then it slowly dies. The NBA is simply not going to have a conspiracy of rigging games just to get a few more viewers. That doesn't make sense. The reward is not worth the risk of losing a successful business.

So please, STOP with the conspiracy stories of rigged games. If you think there is validity to that then figure it out. Connect the dots. Stop saying "OMG IT"S RIGGED" then presenting nothing but the play at hand.

Reffing basketball is tough. Period. Now take it to the pro level where everything is that much faster. Refs get the calls right like 95-97% of the time. So how can anyone come to the conclusion that it's rigged? When we watch replays 4-5 times and it's STILL unclear that shows you how hard it is for these guys. Bad calls happen. Go out and do better yourself. I dare you.

I'll make one more point. Who are the ones always claiming the game is rigged? Answer - NOT NBA players, NOT NBA coaches, NOT NBA owners who have billions invested.....but NBA fans. Hmmmm, let's think about this for a min....

Because not one of these guys is going to risk their job.

hugepatsfan
04-23-2014, 04:33 PM
Rigging games is an art and hard to detect by an untrained eye LOL. You can't simply look at who got more fouls over the course of the game. Basketball is a game of runs. A refs call or no call can spark a run for a team they are favoring.

That's all I'll really say about it. I hate discussing this subject on this forum but it is something that interests me. As anything that has a line in Vegas it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$.....

How does one become "trained" in looking for fixes in sports?

Goose17
04-23-2014, 04:48 PM
And ps, just in case your to blind to realize it, "star calls" is NBA fixing games.

LMFAO!!! :laugh:

Holy crap... I mean, wow. Just wow. I've never... wow. What the... I'm out. This is just...

Max.This
04-23-2014, 04:50 PM
Man, people can be so naive. Stars get the benefit of calls and if you can't see that then I guess it'd be easier to see when those "stars" are off your "OWN" team. When he was exposed for betting games he went and ratted everyone out and the NBA quickly engaged in an "investigation" only to result in a statement saying he was the only one and that refs are unbiased. Oh please...

JC_
04-23-2014, 04:57 PM
But that would be a dumb move heading forward. 1 series for the entire integrity of the league? If word gets out from one of the refs about this, the league would take a huge hit.

I'm just speaking generally; not talking about this series specifically. Regarding the league taking a huge hit if it leaked, word already did come out about this from a ref, it just happens that this ref is also a liar who enjoys the spotlight.

Goose17
04-23-2014, 05:00 PM
I found an article that clears it up pretty well, it's an opinion piece from a freelance writer but it's pretty accurate.

The Truth about the NBA; Rigged 32.7% of games. (http://funpics.classicfun.ws/var/albums/Funpics/Derp.jpg?m=1339896115)

torocan
04-23-2014, 05:01 PM
How does one become "trained" in looking for fixes in sports?

By studying how games have been fixed at lower levels and leagues in other countries when they've been caught.

1. Compromise a referee
2. Compromise a player
3. Compromise a coach

Any of those 3 will get it done, but you're far more likely to compromise a referee when there are judgement calls involved vs a player (who gets paid well) or a coach (who's facing black listing).

And "fixing" games isn't about getting a team to Win or Lose, it's more often about shaving points. In other words, influencing the game in subtle ways to either make a game closer or more of a blow out so that you match the betting line spreads.

So, let's say the Heat is favored by 4.5 and the score has the Heat up by 2 points. A couple foul calls that are "judgement" calls in the Heat's favor is enough to get them up by 5-6 points. Mission accomplished.

That said, any professional referee that was pushing the betting line one way or the other would be very careful about it, making extra effort to relatively "balance" the total fouls and FTA's over the game and only doing it selectively. They won't shift every game, just the occasional game and often not even the marquee games as they tend to be the most heavily scrutinized. After all, does anyone care if Utah or the Bucks covers the spread? This is easily done through the simply managing the distribution of foul calls.

For example, if you call 5 fouls in the 3rd quarter and 5 fouls in the 4th quarter, you give up 4 FT's. If you call 2 fouls in the 3rd quarter and 8 fouls in the 4th quarter, you send that team to the line for 8 FT's. Toss in a few more And1 calls and it's easy to hide and very hard to prove without a very large sample of games.

Similarly, if you call 2 quick fouls on a player in the first quarter the coach nearly always takes them out of the game. Do that to Blake, Harden, Durant, etc and you've swung the game massively in favor of one team or another. Heck, you don't even need to do it to a premium player. Take away a team's best defender like Iguodala, Beverley, or DeAndre Jordan and you've opened a red carpet to bucket.

It really doesn't take much to swing a game where the average win/loss margin is measured in less than 5 point increments.

And in a series like Raptors vs Nets, it would be stupidly easy. You don't even need to "fix" the series. All you need to do is sway ONE game and suddenly one team has to win 4 of the next 6 games, or win at 2x the rate of the other team. Once again, mission accomplished.

It's far, far easier than folks realize. And the main reason that Donaghy got caught was because his co-conspirators were Already being monitored for crime related activities. If they don't get caught, most likely Donaghy would still be a Referee in the NBA.

AddiX
04-23-2014, 05:10 PM
LMFAO!!! :laugh:

Holy crap... I mean, wow. Just wow. I've never... wow. What the... I'm out. This is just...

I feel bad for your parents.

I bet they introduce the family hamster before introducing you to strangers.

Goose17
04-23-2014, 05:17 PM
I feel bad for your parents.

I bet they introduce the family hamster before introducing you to strangers.

Even the family hamster has more sense than you.

Get out of your parents basement, take off your tinfoil hat and walk around in the real world for a while.

Chronz
04-23-2014, 05:25 PM
Espn




Clear proof that NBA games can and have been rigged..

And ps, just in case your to blind to realize it, "star calls" is NBA fixing games. This exist, and we all know it, so don't sit here and try and act like thats not just another way NBA and there refs control games.
Can you provide the links plz? Im talking about the comments you made on behalf of vegas and him being a ref so long. I've already elaborated on how Donaghy was caught, the big money games were evident and he was doomed to failure. Statistical trends becoming evident and all.

In case your too blind too realize, what you have done is expose a rogue ref. The NBA conspiracy talk requires more than that. Ill rummage up what I can for the links when Im home

Chronz
04-23-2014, 05:29 PM
By studying how games have been fixed at lower levels and leagues in other countries when they've been caught.

1. Compromise a referee
2. Compromise a player
3. Compromise a coach

Any of those 3 will get it done, but you're far more likely to compromise a referee when there are judgement calls involved vs a player (who gets paid well) or a coach (who's facing black listing).

And "fixing" games isn't about getting a team to Win or Lose, it's more often about shaving points. In other words, influencing the game in subtle ways to either make a game closer or more of a blow out so that you match the betting line spreads.

So, let's say the Heat is favored by 4.5 and the score has the Heat up by 2 points. A couple foul calls that are "judgement" calls in the Heat's favor is enough to get them up by 5-6 points. Mission accomplished.

That said, any professional referee that was pushing the betting line one way or the other would be very careful about it, making extra effort to relatively "balance" the total fouls and FTA's over the game and only doing it selectively. They won't shift every game, just the occasional game and often not even the marquee games as they tend to be the most heavily scrutinized. After all, does anyone care if Utah or the Bucks covers the spread? This is easily done through the simply managing the distribution of foul calls.

For example, if you call 5 fouls in the 3rd quarter and 5 fouls in the 4th quarter, you give up 4 FT's. If you call 2 fouls in the 3rd quarter and 8 fouls in the 4th quarter, you send that team to the line for 8 FT's. Toss in a few more And1 calls and it's easy to hide and very hard to prove without a very large sample of games.

Similarly, if you call 2 quick fouls on a player in the first quarter the coach nearly always takes them out of the game. Do that to Blake, Harden, Durant, etc and you've swung the game massively in favor of one team or another. Heck, you don't even need to do it to a premium player. Take away a team's best defender like Iguodala, Beverley, or DeAndre Jordan and you've opened a red carpet to bucket.

It really doesn't take much to swing a game where the average win/loss margin is measured in less than 5 point increments.

And in a series like Raptors vs Nets, it would be stupidly easy. You don't even need to "fix" the series. All you need to do is sway ONE game and suddenly one team has to win 4 of the next 6 games, or win at 2x the rate of the other team. Once again, mission accomplished.

It's far, far easier than folks realize. And the main reason that Donaghy got caught was because his co-conspirators were Already being monitored for crime related activities. If they don't get caught, most likely Donaghy would still be a Referee in the NBA.

As easy as you think it is to pull off, its similarly easy to trace. Guys like Donaghy get caught because they stand out, it takes some time but it gets done. Now if you're saying the league at large (where it counts) is in on it, then you have a host of other problems then.

firebryan!!
04-23-2014, 05:46 PM
there has been some really bad call against the raps in this series
it would explain a lot an a guy like him would know a thing or two bout this sort of thing

Kelly Gruber
04-23-2014, 05:57 PM
I beleive it. Raptors running all over the Nets for most of the game, someone goes within 5 feet of Garnett or Pierce shooting and it's auto foul. I actually thought the refs made last night's game close. Raptors looked much fresher, faster and hungrier. Not a very big basketball fan, but going for the Raptors here.

Was a huge basketball fan in the 90s, but the game changed and I don't feel as drawn to it anymore. Things like this don't help, who wants to watch a sport that's rigged to this extent? It is funny listening to the Raptor's colour pull his hair out over the refs all game though...

mjt20mik
04-23-2014, 06:06 PM
He's played out. Just saying stuff so he can get some publicity. I don't buy into his antics.

Chill_Will_24
04-23-2014, 08:12 PM
If the NBA was rigged, ATL would not be in the playoffs. The Knicks would be in their spot. If the NBA was rigged the Bulls would not be down 2-0.

I do think there are "star calls" which can be a disadvantage for a team like Toronto facing a team full of name recognition, but I think overall the refs do try to do their best. Home calls are easily explained by logic. These refs are human. They have 18,000 fans booing them and pressuring them. Their inclination will be to please the crowd.

BTW Toronto has gone to the line more than Brooklyn. What else do you want? The playoffs are physical. Deal with it.

LOOTERX9
04-23-2014, 08:14 PM
Im all for rigging if it means gettin the boring memphis grizzlies and spurs out of the playoffs in favor of the more exciting western teams.. Lets go refs!!!!

JC_
04-23-2014, 08:46 PM
BTW Toronto has gone to the line more than Brooklyn. What else do you want? The playoffs are physical. Deal with it.

The playoffs should be physical but thus far they really haven't been. Game 1 of the playoffs started with the Raptors and Nets and the Refs were not allowing them to play physical.

Chill_Will_24
04-23-2014, 08:54 PM
BTW Toronto has gone to the line more than Brooklyn. What else do you want? The playoffs are physical. Deal with it.

The playoffs should be physical but thus far they really haven't been. Game 1 of the playoffs started with the Raptors and Nets and the Refs were not allowing them to play physical.

What I mean is that they aren't gonna call every single moving screen. They aren't gonna call it every time Deron or Lowry get hit on the arm while driving. They aren't gonna call every push on the big men.

So be thankful for the calls you do get. If anything considering the amount of name recognition the Nets have, I find it astonishing that the Raptors have shot more FT than the Nets.

I find it even more astonishing that Raps fans have developed such a woe is me attitude and whine about everything ref related.

Cal827
04-23-2014, 09:03 PM
While might be true that the NBA is doing that, the refs have been terrible for both sides... Bunch of non-calls or bad calls both ways... Funny enough, it's almost evens up as I think there's like a 1 free throw difference between the teams. It's been called even enough IMO.

As I said before, I don't believe that the Refs will cost us the series. If we lose this series, it'll be because the Nets were the better overall team. As a Raptor fan, all of these excuses already is annoying to me. I'm glad with how bad the Toronto has been taking care of the ball, that they are tied after two games. Hopefully, the team gets their act together and the refs either smarten up overall, or continue to be objectively terrible, giving us a fighting chance lol

FriedTofuz
04-23-2014, 10:30 PM
He's just stating the obvious, nothing to see here.

Shlumpledink
04-23-2014, 10:48 PM
Even if he is right, Donaghy wouldn't know. It is pure speculation

Pfeifer
04-23-2014, 11:36 PM
I don't think it's a conspiracy but the refs have been terrible. Way too whistle happy. Is it just me or have there been a lot of clean blocks called fouls both ways in these two games?

JC_
04-24-2014, 01:53 AM
What I mean is that they aren't gonna call every single moving screen. They aren't gonna call it every time Deron or Lowry get hit on the arm while driving. They aren't gonna call every push on the big men.

So be thankful for the calls you do get. If anything considering the amount of name recognition the Nets have, I find it astonishing that the Raptors have shot more FT than the Nets.

I find it even more astonishing that Raps fans have developed such a woe is me attitude and whine about everything ref related.

Nets have actually shot more FT's which is odd considering they are slow as **** and both games were in Toronto.

I think most of the ref related Raptor stuff was just a pre-emptive attack to make sure the Raptors don't get screwed.

PurpleLynch
04-24-2014, 05:29 AM
Lets just keep in mind that Donaghy is so bad at identifying rigged games, his own mob partners refused to bet on the games he deemed to be rig worthy.

Sorry guys but the almighty dollar doesn't drive everything, everywhere. Not when there is money to lose for the NBA and not when there is money to be gained by exposing it. Oh wait, those 2 revolve around money, so I guess the argument works both ways.

+1

Tumstock
04-24-2014, 07:56 AM
Tim Donaghy why would you reveal something like this? You about to get captured and put away by the NBIA..

ghettosean
04-24-2014, 08:12 AM
Lets just keep in mind that Donaghy is so bad at identifying rigged games, his own mob partners refused to bet on the games he deemed to be rig worthy.

Sorry guys but the almighty dollar doesn't drive everything, everywhere. Not when there is money to lose for the NBA and not when there is money to be gained by exposing it. Oh wait, those 2 revolve around money, so I guess the argument works both ways.

Whether this is true or not why would you bite the hand that feeds you??? Doesn't make sense to me :confused:

Sly Guy
04-24-2014, 10:54 AM
While might be true that the NBA is doing that, the refs have been terrible for both sides... Bunch of non-calls or bad calls both ways... Funny enough, it's almost evens up as I think there's like a 1 free throw difference between the teams. It's been called even enough IMO.

As I said before, I don't believe that the Refs will cost us the series. If we lose this series, it'll be because the Nets were the better overall team. As a Raptor fan, all of these excuses already is annoying to me. I'm glad with how bad the Toronto has been taking care of the ball, that they are tied after two games. Hopefully, the team gets their act together and the refs either smarten up overall, or continue to be objectively terrible, giving us a fighting chance lol


thank you for echoing my sentiments exactly. Some of us Raptor fans still recognize when we're getting the shaft and when we're not.

Some of the bad call trends I've seen so far :

BK gets away with a ton of moving screens, but less in game 2 than in game 1. Probably was a discussion point among the refs between games

TOR gets the benefit of a few hacks on Garnett/Plumlee/DWill/JJ when they attack the rim after broken plays and offensive rebounds.

BK gets away with grabbing, swiping at the ball on DD/Ross/Lowry on drive attempts too much.

All in all, the officiating has been bad, but it hasn't been one-sided. The refs, as bad as they are, have not decided this series at all to this point.

John Walls Era
04-25-2014, 03:01 PM
I feel bad for your parents.

I bet they introduce the family hamster before introducing you to strangers.

:laugh:

This was pretty funny

og knick
04-26-2014, 12:30 PM
While I am sure that there is some "Mob" influenced fixes(sp?) going on in non spot light regular season games.... The kind where you make the same money but no one really cares the outcome...

The blatant bad reefing is the star calls.
These calls aren't made because of markets or whatever... but because of marketing deals and advertising dollars.
Jordan was the first one I remember who was making so much endorsement money that I feel as though NBA "partners" like Nike and stuff, would not let there investments fail.
These companies investing in athlete endorsement deals are also the ones buying advertising space during the games where a large part of the money comes from for the NBA.

Think for a second.. how many athletes with big endorsement deals fail?... not many if any.

And most fans really don't care about the integrity of the game or anything like that.. it's more about watching the grammys and seeing celebrities.

It's only a few die hards like us on these forums that even care about the real basketball... trust me when I say the NBA isn't making the bilk of its money on us.