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View Full Version : Would you rather have Kevin Mchale and Shaq or Shaq and Shaq?



IKnowHoops
04-22-2014, 12:20 AM
Ive heard a lot about floor spacing being key, I think talent wins games too. That being said would you rather have talent of two prime Shaq's or would you rather have Shaq and Mchale and benefit from the better floor spacing?

It's ShoTime
04-22-2014, 12:35 AM
Kevin Mchale and Kevin Mchale

HouRealCoach
04-22-2014, 12:43 AM
What?

asandhu23
04-22-2014, 12:48 AM
2 is always better.

PurpleJesus
04-22-2014, 12:59 AM
Shaq and Shaq. McHale is no slouch, but I have never seen a post player as dominate as Shaq in my life. Everytime he got the ball in the low post, you were almost assured 2 points, or a foul on the other team.

bleedprple&gold
04-22-2014, 02:07 AM
Why do you need two Shaqs? Do they play at the same time or does one come off the bench?

sep11ie
04-22-2014, 02:11 AM
Wtf?

Iron24th
04-22-2014, 02:20 AM
lol WTF with those stupid "what if" threads

dalton749
04-22-2014, 02:29 AM
high times

*Superman*
04-22-2014, 02:44 AM
Why do you need two Shaqs? Do they play at the same time or does one come off the bench?


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0BWklKWtr-g/U0ZYiXVrsUI/AAAAAAAATfU/ROfCssfmjeE/mind-blown-2.jpg

slashsnake
04-22-2014, 03:38 AM
Shaq and Shaq. McHale is no slouch, but I have never seen a post player as dominate as Shaq in my life. Everytime he got the ball in the low post, you were almost assured 2 points, or a foul on the other team.

Shaq/Shaq would be scary. Feed Shaq in the post, PF on the D rotates over to double team, Shaq hits Shaq wide open underneath, madness ensues. Fill in rest of roster with 2 guys that can dribble and feed the post, and 9 guys that can shoot spot up three's.

IKnowHoops
04-22-2014, 03:50 AM
I love the the pessimistic, glass half empty crew that always comes into a thread just to describe how they don't like it. When given the option of not entering a thread you have no answer for, or complaining over it, they choose to complain. Insecure mentalities.

John Walls Era
04-22-2014, 04:21 AM
For a second I thought it was coach Mchale and player Shaq. I would choose almost anything over coach Mchale, but I'm glad to see that wasn't the question.

CubbieKid17
04-22-2014, 04:46 AM
I'll take the 5 Mike James option.

bagwell368
04-22-2014, 05:35 AM
Shaq and Shaq. McHale is no slouch, but I have never seen a post player as dominate as Shaq in my life. Everytime he got the ball in the low post, you were almost assured 2 points, or a foul on the other team.

McHale was an elite defender that could handle Centers, PF's, and SF's. Bird always got the easier player to guard and McHale got the harder one. Shaq doesn't have the ability to swoop around 17' away from the hoop on D or O like McHale. McHale probably had the highest percentage fallaway I've ever seen and also was a top 3 all time low post offensive player.

A team you face has a grinder of a Center - say Malone, and a killer PF like Dirk, which Shaq is going to have Dirk drop 40 on him?

It's kinda funny how the newbies always concentrate on the offensive side of the ball and never think about the ramifications on the D side - sort of like most NBA players.

t_money25
04-22-2014, 07:50 AM
Give me 2 Jordans

Pierzynski4Prez
04-22-2014, 09:12 AM
3 shaqs, 2 Kobe's, and a side of fries

ManRam
04-22-2014, 09:30 AM
Spacing in today's NBA is hugely important. One Shaq will do enough damage...the ability to space things out for him and the rest of the court I think is more important than having two of him. Now, is McHale a dirk offensively in terms of spreading the court? No. But he was a tremendous offensive player with amazing skills and certainly more range than Shaq. He could catch the ball from most anywhere on the court and find a good look for himself. I think people forget, or just never understood, how great he was. McHale's defensive versatility also makes that combo more appealing. Shaq guarding a stretch 4 in today's NBA would be funny. McHale can guard multiple positions. There's two sides to the court, and I think McHale/Shaq works way better.

I actually think it's a solid question :shrug:

JLynn943
04-22-2014, 09:35 AM
I wonder how well Shaq would get along with Shaq

Shaq/McHale for me for the reasons ManRam stated

Goose17
04-22-2014, 10:54 AM
Having two Shaq's would be a disaster imho. I'm not even sure how you would make that work, especially in todays NBA.

Rentzias
04-22-2014, 11:11 AM
Shaq-McHale, although I'm not opposed to the McHale twins either. No drop-off on FG% and the need to be double-teamed, but not vulnerable to Hack-a-Shaq either.

True Sports Fan
04-22-2014, 11:40 AM
I'll take the 5 Mike James option. That's unfair to the rest of the league

Shammyguy3
04-22-2014, 12:18 PM
McHale was an elite defender that could handle Centers, PF's, and SF's. Bird always got the easier player to guard and McHale got the harder one. Shaq doesn't have the ability to swoop around 17' away from the hoop on D or O like McHale. McHale probably had the highest percentage fallaway I've ever seen and also was a top 3 all time low post offensive player.

A team you face has a grinder of a Center - say Malone, and a killer PF like Dirk, which Shaq is going to have Dirk drop 40 on him?

It's kinda funny how the newbies always concentrate on the offensive side of the ball and never think about the ramifications on the D side - sort of like most NBA players.

This topic came up in the All-Time Redraft game, in which iknowhoops and I were debating via PM about how awful his team fit together because he had Shaq/Mikan/Pettit as his first 3 picks. I told him, awful fit and it won't sniff the playoffs based on everything in bagwell's post.


3 shaqs, 2 Kobe's, and a side of fries

:laugh:

mjm07
04-22-2014, 12:40 PM
2 Shaqs. One to come off the Bench. Sign a stretch 4 to play with both.

diu9leilomo
04-22-2014, 01:17 PM
just take 2 lebron, you can win in any decade. even 2 jordan is no match

GunFactor187
04-22-2014, 02:01 PM
Please...one Mike James and one Brian Scalabrine would be more than enough to cause Armageddon.

ewing
04-22-2014, 02:15 PM
I don't think Shaq and Shaq could coexist

IKnowHoops
04-22-2014, 02:22 PM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0BWklKWtr-g/U0ZYiXVrsUI/AAAAAAAATfU/ROfCssfmjeE/mind-blown-2.jpg

lolololololololololol

IKnowHoops
04-22-2014, 02:28 PM
This topic came up in the All-Time Redraft game, in which iknowhoops and I were debating via PM about how awful his team fit together because he had Shaq/Mikan/Pettit as his first 3 picks. I told him, awful fit and it won't sniff the playoffs based on everything in bagwell's post.




:laugh:

I wasn't going to put you on blast but, hey fine with me.

IKnowHoops
04-22-2014, 02:35 PM
Spacing is great and all, but if every rebound on the offensive side is a put back and dunk, then is kind of supersedes spacing in my opinion. At some point the game becomes a video game and all the real crap that goes on because its necessary, stops, and becomes unnecessary. Like when you play with Jordan or Lebron on NBA2k13 and you just drive and dunk from the free throw line every time and it doesn't matter how your big men and three point shooters are spaced. I see something similar happening with two Shaqs down low. The game as we know it would cease to exist and it would become funny as 5 guys try to hang on two. Not to mention 3 guys would be wide open at all times because there men would be helping on the Shaq twins. Its harder for dirk to guard Shaq than Shaq to guard Dirk. A Dunk is 100% and jumper from dirk is 50% do the math younglings. Some of you have forgotten how dominant Shaq was. What you did with every other player went right out the window. Put two of them down there and its game over fellas. Sorry. Thats a fact.

3RDASYSTEM
04-22-2014, 02:39 PM
McHale was an elite defender that could handle Centers, PF's, and SF's. Bird always got the easier player to guard and McHale got the harder one. Shaq doesn't have the ability to swoop around 17' away from the hoop on D or O like McHale. McHale probably had the highest percentage fallaway I've ever seen and also was a top 3 all time low post offensive player.

A team you face has a grinder of a Center - say Malone, and a killer PF like Dirk, which Shaq is going to have Dirk drop 40 on him?

It's kinda funny how the newbies always concentrate on the offensive side of the ball and never think about the ramifications on the D side - sort of like most NBA players.

im sure KEVIN was good defender, quite throwing elite around like that or he would have won DPOY or finished runner up significant times, DREAM is elite defender and im sure he has won DPOY and finishe runner up before more than 1x, BIRD shouldn't have to guard the other teams best player when he pass and shoot at his level, save that energy and let KEVIN do the grunt work, its been like that before and later on now, in all of sports

young Orlando SHAQ could have guarded DIRK not the over weight laker version, young Orlando SHAQ was running fast breaks coast to coast so im sure he could have done a lot of damage had he not put on all that extra weight and since he was so athletic it didn't hurt him at all but it helped him dominate even more since he was so heavy and mobile and nasty with it

a young SHAQ could grind/bang down low, play finesse ball because of his unreal athletic ability/agility and guard 7foot perimeter players because he was athletic and long enough to recover if beaten but DIRK isn't beating no young SHAQ off the dribble and if he did it would get swatted every time for most part cause it would be easy for SHAQ to recover with all that ability and size

i'd take 2 SHAQ's all day, and tell one to be the modern day WILT, and the other to be modern day RUSSELL, MCHALE couldn't do either but at least he did play for C's like RUSSELL did and yes he had game just not on the impact/dominant level to me of SHAQ but a gamer indeed, post moves on the block were lethally fundamental

like KM maybe had more arsenal of moves on the block but he isn't top 3 post player all time that's crazy talk
right there, I'd throw the ball in the post to JORDAN before I would MCHALE and that's the lower part of my post player rankings, its a a lot of players i'd take in the post over MCHALE, no matter how many moves he has

if he is then I know for sure IVERSON is top 3 perimeter players all time because his arsenal on the perimeter was second to none like MCHALE on the low block, AI scored in combined ways like no other player in history of guard play, he didn't post up hardly ever but his points in the paint are big man like in any era

bringbackfredex
04-22-2014, 02:53 PM
I love the the pessimistic, glass half empty crew that always comes into a thread just to describe how they don't like it. When given the option of not entering a thread you have no answer for, or complaining over it, they choose to complain. Insecure mentalities.

While I agree with your views about PSD posters, I cannot deny how ridiculously ******** this thread is.

JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 03:05 PM
As a GM, if I were able to procure them, I'd take two Shaqs, just because he has a higher trade value.

As a coach, I'd want to McHale's on the court on offense, and I'd want Shaq+McHale on defense.

People go on about how dominant Shaq was in the post, but he got away with SO many calls and he had no range. If he were in the post with another guy like him, it brings the defenders closer together and allows them to help each other cut off the passing lane between the two. Having McHale being able to go in or out would be HUGE in terms of forcing defences to spread out and go one-on-one or risk leaving a guy open when double-teaming.


So yea... the spirit of the question I think, is what would you rather put on the floor, and the answer is either McHale and McHale or Shaq and McHale, though obviously if I could only have one it would be Shaq.

benzni
04-22-2014, 04:00 PM
just foul both Shaqs and they will both miss their FT's

Intheyear420
04-22-2014, 04:21 PM
Ive heard a lot about floor spacing being key, I think talent wins games too. That being said would you rather have talent of two prime Shaq's or would you rather have Shaq and Mchale and benefit from the better floor spacing?

Did a 5 year old create this thread? this has got to be one of the most ******** threads ive ever seen. All these threads are making it harder by the day to enjoy psd. how about who would you rather have on your team, 5 michael jordans or 5 micheal jordans?

Ebbs
04-22-2014, 04:23 PM
He worded poorly but the question isn't as stupid as it sounds.

Talent or fit. Is what he's asking.

Sly Guy
04-22-2014, 04:25 PM
I'll take the 5 Mike James option.

this.

Intheyear420
04-22-2014, 04:28 PM
He worded poorly but the question isn't as stupid as it sounds.

Talent or fit. Is what he's asking.
yes, its pretty stupid. do these clowns just sit around and think about "what ifs" all day? thats something 5 year olds do. hmm what would i do if rihanna had 4 titties instead of 2? or better yet, what if she had 6? 8? 10? ohhh, the possibilities

mudvayne387
04-22-2014, 04:29 PM
Here's my take on the whole thing:

I would rather have Shaq at the plate in the 4th quarter of game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals rather than Kevin McHale three outs away from a perfect game with the Seahawks defense breathing down his neck.

You know what I'm saying ?

Intheyear420
04-22-2014, 04:33 PM
im sure KEVIN was good defender, quite throwing elite around like that or he would have won DPOY or finished runner up significant times, DREAM is elite defender and im sure he has won DPOY and finishe runner up before more than 1x, BIRD shouldn't have to guard the other teams best player when he pass and shoot at his level, save that energy and let KEVIN do the grunt work, its been like that before and later on now, in all of sports

young Orlando SHAQ could have guarded DIRK not the over weight laker version, young Orlando SHAQ was running fast breaks coast to coast so im sure he could have done a lot of damage had he not put on all that extra weight and since he was so athletic it didn't hurt him at all but it helped him dominate even more since he was so heavy and mobile and nasty with it

a young SHAQ could grind/bang down low, play finesse ball because of his unreal athletic ability/agility and guard 7foot perimeter players because he was athletic and long enough to recover if beaten but DIRK isn't beating no young SHAQ off the dribble and if he did it would get swatted every time for most part cause it would be easy for SHAQ to recover with all that ability and size

i'd take 2 SHAQ's all day, and tell one to be the modern day WILT, and the other to be modern day RUSSELL, MCHALE couldn't do either but at least he did play for C's like RUSSELL did and yes he had game just not on the impact/dominant level to me of SHAQ but a gamer indeed, post moves on the block were lethally fundamental

like KM maybe had more arsenal of moves on the block but he isn't top 3 post player all time that's crazy talk
right there, I'd throw the ball in the post to JORDAN before I would MCHALE and that's the lower part of my post player rankings, its a a lot of players i'd take in the post over MCHALE, no matter how many moves he has

if he is then I know for sure IVERSON is top 3 perimeter players all time because his arsenal on the perimeter was second to none like MCHALE on the low block, AI scored in combined ways like no other player in history of guard play, he didn't post up hardly ever but his points in the paint are big man like in any era

I dont know whats worse, the guy who made this ridiculous thread or actually giving a 6 paragraph explanation answering the question.

Shammyguy3
04-22-2014, 06:15 PM
Here's my take on the whole thing:

I would rather have Shaq at the plate in the 4th quarter of game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals rather than Kevin McHale three outs away from a perfect game with the Seahawks defense breathing down his neck.

You know what I'm saying ?

:laugh:

IKnowHoops
04-22-2014, 06:29 PM
I dont know whats worse, the guy who made this ridiculous thread or actually giving a 6 paragraph explanation answering the question.

You know whats worse than both. The guy who doesn't want to here about the thread, but comes in and reads every comment, posts on half the comments, and all he does is reiterate the same bs about how he hates the thread. Its worse than pathetic. To waste your time on something you don't want to read on purpose is like drinking someones else's urine over and over again just because you have a mouth. Insanity! The real and only problem on PSD.

PhillyFaninLA
04-22-2014, 06:48 PM
I'd take Mchale and Shaq....while Shaq is the better player I'm not sure he'd be effective next to himself, I think McHale would make most players better and had some great clutch

bagwell368
04-22-2014, 08:58 PM
Spacing is great and all, but if every rebound on the offensive side is a put back and dunk, then is kind of supersedes spacing in my opinion. At some point the game becomes a video game and all the real crap that goes on because its necessary, stops, and becomes unnecessary. Like when you play with Jordan or Lebron on NBA2k13 and you just drive and dunk from the free throw line every time and it doesn't matter how your big men and three point shooters are spaced. I see something similar happening with two Shaqs down low. The game as we know it would cease to exist and it would become funny as 5 guys try to hang on two. Not to mention 3 guys would be wide open at all times because there men would be helping on the Shaq twins. Its harder for dirk to guard Shaq than Shaq to guard Dirk. A Dunk is 100% and jumper from dirk is 50% do the math younglings. Some of you have forgotten how dominant Shaq was. What you did with every other player went right out the window. Put two of them down there and its game over fellas. Sorry. Thats a fact.

Take it from a person with a great deal of playing, coaching, and watching in my background - the reason they have 5 different names for 5 different positions on the floor is that you need to have guys that do different things individually come together as a team.

First off Shaq was a crappy foul shooter, so you're sitting one or two of your likely highest paid players to avoid that strategy? That's ridiculous. Did you know that McHale was the first guy ever to have 60% FG and 80% FT in the NBA in the same year?

Shaq was obviously a terror inside, since most other teams will have a C and a PF, what will Shaq do with a mobile PF? Dirk, Duncan, KG, McHale... if Shaq follows the player outside you've neutralized most of what's good about Shaq. If they both stay in the paint a PF with even 17' range is going to eviscerate the Shaq brothers at will.

There are times when two bigs work well, but it's because each has a different set of strengths, not clones. Shaq isn't nearly bullet proof enough in enough areas to want to clone, because you have two of them, and BTW who is going to get any touches besides those two and will they be happy with it?

Shlumpledink
04-22-2014, 09:11 PM
Hakeem and David Robinson.

slashsnake
04-22-2014, 09:18 PM
just foul both Shaqs and they will both miss their FT's

I was thinking of that too.. But you will run out of players and fouls... You can't just bring in bodies because you have two Shaq's to cover. And if you do just foul them for an entire half, he's made 58% of his free throws (the best teams shoot about 50% from the floor) and you play the 2nd half without any big men.

On covering a Dirk or other shooter, young Shaq had that ability. He had amazing lateral movement when he was younger. And on the other side, Dirk has to take on Shaq in the post, which means 50 for Shaq (or Dirk fouls out). Sure, 30 year old Shaq has an issue there, but remember him with the Magic... When he'd get the ball 20 feet from the basket and take guys off the dribble? That Shaq would be fine covering a stretch four. I also wonder how Dirk would do on offense after having to defend shaq in the post for 3 quarters.

bagwell368
04-22-2014, 09:21 PM
im sure KEVIN was good defender, quite throwing elite around like that or he would have won DPOY or finished runner up significant times.

I thought you were a self styled expert on the history of the NBA? McHale is easly one of the 5 best defensive PF's of all time. All defensive 1st team 3 times, 2nd team 3 times - pretty good for a guy with basically a 9 year career as a regular.


DREAM is elite defender and im sure he has won DPOY and finishe runner up before more than 1x

Dream was a Center, and not being discussed here.


BIRD shouldn't have to guard the other teams best player when he pass and shoot at his level, save that energy and let KEVIN do the grunt work, its been like that before and later on now, in all of sports

Cedric Maxwell got the better offensive players too. Also the creator of basketball-reference admitted that his metrics just look at what an opposing player scores but ignores the average of that player. So for instance if McHale had Barkely (who said BTW that McHale is the best player he ever faced) and kept him to 16 points when he was averaging 28 it's a lot more impressive than keeping Caldwell Jones and Bobby Jones to 15 combined when they averaged 11 (or whatever it was). That's why Bird shows up at times with better defensive numbers than McHale on paper. As someone that went to about 150 Celts games between 1981-1988 I can guarantee Bird was no match for McHale on D, although Bird wasn't as awful as some said.

BTW your claim here is flat wrong. Jordan, Duncan, Hakeem, and other elite offensive players extended themselves on D plenty. No reason an elite offensive player should ignore or soft pedal D.


young Orlando SHAQ could have guarded DIRK not the over weight laker version, young Orlando SHAQ was running fast breaks coast to coast so im sure he could have done a lot of damage had he not put on all that extra weight and since he was so athletic it didn't hurt him at all but it helped him dominate even more since he was so heavy and mobile and nasty with it

Early Shaq was not a proven winner, he also didn't have as many offensive moves - I think he went from 3 to 5 moves from year 2 to year 7 if I'm not mistaken - that's vital!!! hahahahha

It's also quite enough to have one Shaq - or no Shaq, but two Shaq's is asinine.


like KM maybe had more arsenal of moves on the block but he isn't top 3 post player all time that's crazy talk right there, I'd throw the ball in the post to JORDAN before I would MCHALE and that's the lower part of my post player rankings, its a a lot of players i'd take in the post over MCHALE, no matter how many moves he has

You obviously have no idea of what you are talking about. McHale is clearly a top 3 all time post up player. McHale sits at 10th all time NBA in offensive rating (far ahead of Shaq at 88th). 15th in true shooting - far ahead of Shaq at 38th place. Tell us more stories Mr. Science...


if he is then I know for sure IVERSON is top 3 perimeter players all time because his arsenal on the perimeter was second to none like MCHALE on the low block, AI scored in combined ways like no other player in history of guard play, he didn't post up hardly ever but his points in the paint are big man like in any era

As I know and you fear, Iverson is garbage as a human, teammate, efficient scorer, and winner. Just a pile of vile trash. His painful existence now perfectly reflects his life.

Bostonjorge
04-22-2014, 09:25 PM
I would take young magic shaq and championship laker shaq.

U have to double laker shaq and magic shaq could run the floor. On D laker shaq could control the paint and magic shaq was more effective on D blocking everything with his quickness.

I would like this lineup.

C Shaq - lakers
PF Shaq - Magic
SF Scott - magic
SG Jones - lakers
PG van exel - lakers

bagwell368
04-22-2014, 09:30 PM
I was thinking of that too.. But you will run out of players and fouls... You can't just bring in bodies because you have two Shaq's to cover. And if you do just foul them for an entire half, he's made 58% of his free throws (the best teams shoot about 50% from the floor) and you play the 2nd half without any big men.

You hack them when it matters. Not every time, only a naif would do that.


On covering a Dirk or other shooter, young Shaq had that ability.

Sorry, bu that's rubbish. Dirk's release is very quick and he moves effectively to open spaces. No Shaq of any vintage is following him out to 23 feet.


He had amazing lateral movement when he was younger.

Amazing? Compared with himself 8 years later - sure. Compared to Hakeem? Oh please, Hakeem beat Shaq to pieces until he got too old, Shaq wasn't keeping up with Hakeem at all, and wasn't abele to use his power that well either, he was raw when he came to the NBA. Very raw.

bagwell368
04-22-2014, 09:32 PM
I would take young magic shaq and championship laker shaq.

U have to double laker shaq and magic shaq could run the floor. On D laker shaq could control the paint and magic shaq was more effective on D blocking everything with his quickness.

I would like this lineup.

C Shaq - lakers
PF Shaq - Magic
SF Scott - magic
SG Jones - lakers
PG van exel - lakers

Van Excel was awful. Gack!

bagwell368
04-22-2014, 09:34 PM
Did a 5 year old create this thread? this has got to be one of the most ******** threads ive ever seen. All these threads are making it harder by the day to enjoy psd. how about who would you rather have on your team, 5 michael jordans or 5 micheal jordans?

You have 13 posts and are complaining on how it's harder and harder to enjoy PSD?

Don't like it? Don't enter the threads. I don't mind the idea, it's some of the responses that make the 3 Stooges look like geniuses.

IKnowHoops
04-22-2014, 10:10 PM
You have 13 posts and are complaining on how it's harder and harder to enjoy PSD?

Don't like it? Don't enter the threads. I don't mind the idea, it's some of the responses that make the 3 Stooges look like geniuses.

This x 1000

Kyben36
04-22-2014, 10:18 PM
Shaq could not work well with a shaq IMO, both are terrible from outside 7 ft. and 7 ft is pushing it, you would have 2 7 footers 7 feet from one another, you have to have somebody who can at least hit a FT as well, imagine hack a shaq with two shaqs LOL