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JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 12:09 AM
Who is on your mount Rushmore of NBA coaches?


I got Pop, PJax, Jerry Sloan and Red Aurbach.

Guys are feel bad leaving out are Riley and Daly. And Larry Brown too.

dhopisthename
04-22-2014, 12:14 AM
red-pop-phil-pat

JEDean89
04-22-2014, 12:16 AM
Pat Riley has 5 chips as a coach, kind of hard to leave him off.

P&GRealist
04-22-2014, 12:19 AM
Phil Jackson - Pat Riley - Gregg Popovich - Red Auerbach



Well, that was easy.

P&GRealist
04-22-2014, 12:20 AM
Who is on your mount Rushmore of NBA coaches?


I got Pop, PJax, Jerry Sloan and Red Aurbach.

Guys are feel bad leaving out are Riley and Daly. And Larry Brown too.


You're not getting on any Rushmore if you never won a chip.

unleashthebeast
04-22-2014, 12:26 AM
Yeah get Sloan the hell out of here haha

JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 12:31 AM
You're not getting on any Rushmore if you never won a chip.

So you wouldn't put Stockton on the Mnt. Rushmore of point guards? Or Barkley or Karl Malone on the Mnt Rushmore of Power forwards?


Riley was an AMAZING coach. AMAZING! He was also lucky as all hell the he was handed the keys to a dynasty in LA. Then when Miami was poised to win a title, he booted his coach out and took over to pad his resume.


You give Sloan the Lakers through the 80's, or the Heat in the 00's, and Sloan has as many rings as Riley, if not more. You can't blame a guy because he wasn't lucky.

Riodagoat
04-22-2014, 12:37 AM
So you wouldn't put Stockton on the Mnt. Rushmore of point guards? Or Barkley or Karl Malone on the Mnt Rushmore of Power forwards?


Riley was an AMAZING coach. AMAZING! He was also lucky as all hell the he was handed the keys to a dynasty in LA. Then when Miami was poised to win a title, he booted his coach out and took over to pad his resume.


You give Sloan the Lakers through the 80's, or the Heat in the 00's, and Sloan has as many rings as Riley, if not more. You can't blame a guy because he wasn't lucky.

You can't possibly be that stupid.

asandhu23
04-22-2014, 12:45 AM
Auerbuch, Popovich, Jackson, Wilkens.

Don't forget about Wilkens, people.

slashsnake
04-22-2014, 12:46 AM
So you wouldn't put Stockton on the Mnt. Rushmore of point guards? Or Barkley or Karl Malone on the Mnt Rushmore of Power forwards?


Riley was an AMAZING coach. AMAZING! He was also lucky as all hell the he was handed the keys to a dynasty in LA. Then when Miami was poised to win a title, he booted his coach out and took over to pad his resume.


You give Sloan the Lakers through the 80's, or the Heat in the 00's, and Sloan has as many rings as Riley, if not more. You can't blame a guy because he wasn't lucky.

A bit different though between coaching and players. Just because I put championship winning coaches on there doesn't mean Robert Horry or Jim Loscutoff has to get in the rushmore of PF's.

Slug3
04-22-2014, 12:49 AM
So you wouldn't put Stockton on the Mnt. Rushmore of point guards? Or Barkley or Karl Malone on the Mnt Rushmore of Power forwards?


Riley was an AMAZING coach. AMAZING! He was also lucky as all hell the he was handed the keys to a dynasty in LA. Then when Miami was poised to win a title, he booted his coach out and took over to pad his resume.


You give Sloan the Lakers through the 80's, or the Heat in the 00's, and Sloan has as many rings as Riley, if not more. You can't blame a guy because he wasn't lucky.

So you ding Riley for having great players but not Phil for Having the best player ever and then even Scottie/Rodman/Shaq/Kobe as players as well? Did you think this through?

P&GRealist
04-22-2014, 12:53 AM
So you ding Riley for having great players but not Phil for Having the best player ever and then even Scottie/Rodman/Shaq/Kobe as players as well? Did you think this through?
No, he doesn't think things thru. Have u not seen his threads and line of the night candidates?

slashsnake
04-22-2014, 01:02 AM
Well I think he took over because his coach was 1 game over .500. not because he wanted to pad his resume. If he wanted that he would have started out the year as their coach.

He was lucky he got his dynasty in LA, but I don't think Sloan coaches the Lakers to multiple championships. I don't think they would want him running their team built around high scoring and a fast pace. I don't think he would have meshed well with their players after seeing him mesh with his stars after Stockton and Malone. And I don't think he wins piles of championships with Hardaway and Mourning that he couldn't win with Stockton and Malone. I don't think he talks Shaq into coming to his team, and I don't think he gives young Wade the freedom to play like Riley did in the finals that year he was with Shaq.

The fact is, he got two of the greatest players ever at their positions at the same time in their primes. And he didn't win a ring with them. He was always competitive, but fell short every single time. He was a GREAT coach, but I think he needed a very specific fit of players to play his style and be successful. I just don't see Magic and Wade being great guys as ones who come down the court, slow it up, set up an offense and look to the coach for the play to run, and continue on then.

MTar786
04-22-2014, 01:46 AM
this is by far the easiest list to compile.
phil
red
pop
pat

kylem4711
04-22-2014, 01:59 AM
Pop
Jackson
Red Aurbach
Ralph Lawler

numba1CHANGsta
04-22-2014, 02:05 AM
Mt. Rushmore: Phil-Red-Pop-Riley

# of Championships: 11-9-4-5, complete dominance

2nd tier: Daly-Sloan-Brown-Kundla

slashsnake
04-22-2014, 03:48 AM
Mt. Rushmore: Phil-Red-Pop-Riley

# of Championships: 11-9-4-5, complete dominance

2nd tier: Daly-Sloan-Brown-Kundla

I'd have the same 8 names

Crackadalic
04-22-2014, 06:38 AM
Pop
Phil
Red
Pat

In that order

amos1er
04-22-2014, 06:50 AM
red-pop-phil-pat

This.

amos1er
04-22-2014, 06:53 AM
Pop
Phil
Red
Pat

In that order

Nope. Phil is at the top for sure. Kind of hard to deny that. Everyone else is pretty debatable though. At least you put in Riley. The creator of the thread somehow left him off. Lol. I'm hoping it was an innocent mistake.

ManRam
04-22-2014, 09:50 AM
Auerbuch, Popovich, Jackson, Wilkens.

Don't forget about Wilkens, people.

Me not mentioning him is not forgetting him. Good coach. Great coach, even. 1 title in 32 years of coaching isn't overly impressive. Nor is a career 53.6% winning percentage. Good coach who coached for a LONG time, but not a Rushmore candidate.

I think the top-4 are obvious. Pop, Riley, Red and Phil.

Larry Brown or Chuck Daly would be my #5, and the gap between them and whomever I have at 4 is HUGE. Brown improved every team he went to. He might only have one ring, but he bounced around and made huge differences everywhere he goes. Arguably the game's best teacher ever. Sloan makes my top-8. Sure, he never won, but he really only had a few teams every capable of it, and they ran into some juggernauts. Nellie probably rounds out my top 8. Kundla is 9. Then maybe Wilkens. Maybe.

Crackadalic
04-22-2014, 10:21 AM
Nope. Phil is at the top for sure. Kind of hard to deny that. Everyone else is pretty debatable though. At least you put in Riley. The creator of the thread somehow left him off. Lol. I'm hoping it was an innocent mistake.

I put pop first because he's consistently got his team to produce damn near 50 or more for what 12-15 years? He got 60 wins with a team from a talent standpoint should be a 4th ish seed

Phil is the greatest champion as he can handle personalities. From and x and o stand point pop all the way

I won't agree either or. It's like lebron and Durant. Can't go wrong with either

goingfor28
04-22-2014, 10:37 AM
Vdn

torocan
04-22-2014, 10:59 AM
Pops, Phil, Riley, Auerbach.

As for Pops vs Phil I think that's always going to be debatable. Phil has more rings, Pops has had a greater career of sustained excellence and has influenced coaching on a greater level (much deeper coaching tree, and a pioneer in scouting international players and minutes management).

And grats Pops on his 3rd COTY. :)

nickdymez
04-22-2014, 11:15 AM
You can't possibly be that stupid.

Yes he can. And he is

D-Leethal
04-22-2014, 11:16 AM
So you wouldn't put Stockton on the Mnt. Rushmore of point guards? Or Barkley or Karl Malone on the Mnt Rushmore of Power forwards?


Riley was an AMAZING coach. AMAZING! He was also lucky as all hell the he was handed the keys to a dynasty in LA. Then when Miami was poised to win a title, he booted his coach out and took over to pad his resume.


You give Sloan the Lakers through the 80's, or the Heat in the 00's, and Sloan has as many rings as Riley, if not more. You can't blame a guy because he wasn't lucky.

It amazes me that guys can bash D'Antoni for not getting it done with Nash and Amare with 4 prime opportunities, yet Sloan is praised when he couldn't get it done over 15-20 years of the best PG-PF duo in NBA history. Sloan is severely overrated around here and I'm not sure why. And please don't bring up Jordan, they couldn't get it done before MJ, while MJ was playing baseball, or when MJ was in the twilight of his career.

Riley coaches the showtime Lakers to 5 titles, he than completely flipped the script and coached the Rugby Knicks to game 7 of the Finals and the best opponent MJ's Bulls faced in its prime, than went to Miami and won a chip there. Riley >>>>>> Sloan and its not even close.

JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 01:01 PM
You can't possibly be that stupid.

Are you trolling?

You call me stupid and offer no basis for your view?

Name calling is something I expect from an 8-year-old.


Now... what part of what I said is stupid? The part where I said Riley is an amazing coach? Or the part where I said he had a lot of luck? Or the part where I said Sloan would have had as many rings as Riley had he coached teams as stacked as the teams Riley coached?

JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 01:06 PM
It amazes me that guys can bash D'Antoni for not getting it done with Nash and Amare with 4 prime opportunities, yet Sloan is praised when he couldn't get it done over 15-20 years of the best PG-PF duo in NBA history. Sloan is severely overrated around here and I'm not sure why. And please don't bring up Jordan, they couldn't get it done before MJ, while MJ was playing baseball, or when MJ was in the twilight of his career.

Riley coaches the showtime Lakers to 5 titles, he than completely flipped the script and coached the Rugby Knicks to game 7 of the Finals and the best opponent MJ's Bulls faced in its prime, than went to Miami and won a chip there. Riley >>>>>> Sloan and its not even close.

Riley coaches the Lakers to five titles? When did he do that? Are you not aware that Westhead coached Magic to his first title?


Riley was handed the key to a dynasty. Yes, he was an AMAZING coach, but he was also a VERY lucky coach. You want to start counting rings and use that as your basis, then Robert Horry is better than Jordan.


Sloan watched the Jazz losing THREE HOF players in one season and STILL coached them to a .500 record. Riley lost the Heat when they still had Shaq and Wade and quit half-way through the season to let his assistant rack up the losses.


Riley is not omnipotent. He never beat Jordan either, and he took talented Miami rosters into the lottery at times when Sloan was overachieving with an aged roster or a roster that lost multiple starters in one offseason.

JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 01:09 PM
Yes he can. And he is

It's great that you guys can engage in name-call and not actually speak to the content of my comments.

This is trolling. Grow up. Either speak to the content, or don't bother commenting, because you sound like a child when you resort to name calling.

JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 01:33 PM
Well I think he took over because his coach was 1 game over .500. not because he wanted to pad his resume. If he wanted that he would have started out the year as their coach.

He was lucky he got his dynasty in LA, but I don't think Sloan coaches the Lakers to multiple championships. I don't think they would want him running their team built around high scoring and a fast pace. I don't think he would have meshed well with their players after seeing him mesh with his stars after Stockton and Malone. And I don't think he wins piles of championships with Hardaway and Mourning that he couldn't win with Stockton and Malone. I don't think he talks Shaq into coming to his team, and I don't think he gives young Wade the freedom to play like Riley did in the finals that year he was with Shaq.

The fact is, he got two of the greatest players ever at their positions at the same time in their primes. And he didn't win a ring with them. He was always competitive, but fell short every single time. He was a GREAT coach, but I think he needed a very specific fit of players to play his style and be successful. I just don't see Magic and Wade being great guys as ones who come down the court, slow it up, set up an offense and look to the coach for the play to run, and continue on then.


Very well articulated. I'm inclined to agree with much of what you said here. I do, however, think Sloan would have done well with the Lakers. He ran the pick-and-roll because that is what his team was good at, but he was a grossly underrated defensive coach, and got weak defenders to play good team defense. That fact that he was able to get to back-to-back finals with Greg Ostertag as his starting center when he had to go against Shaq, Robinson and Hakeem speaks to how well he could navigate bad match-ups as a coach.

Watching the Lakers, it was really Magic that ran the offense. It was his show. Reading West's book, Riley had a HUGE ego and caused a lot of problems. There is a reason he left the Lakers while they were contenders. He liked to take a lot of the credit for the work that other people did, and neither the players, nor the front office liked that. And the Lakers, with Mike Dunleavy as coach, managed to return to the finals without Kareem. Dunleavy has since proved that although a good coach, he isn't a HOF coach. So if he could get to the finals with the Lakers sans Kareem, I'm sure Sloan would have been able to win multiple titles with him.


I'm not knocking Riley. I think he is one of the greatest coaches ever. I've just watched a lot of games, and read a lot of what players and guys like West have had to say. I was immensely impressed with the way he coached the Knicks. Being known for his offense and then going there and running one of the best defenses in the league and winning with a completely different roster was impressive.


I just hate when people start with the ring counting. Rings are as much about circumstance as talent. Sloan's front office never managed to put together a championship supporting cast, and Sloan can't be faulted for that. He had Stockton, Malone and Hornacek. Past that, there wasn't really much, but he got them to back-to-back finals. And had Riley coached the Jazz for 20+ years, I promise you he would have given up and quit on them after not winning.


Riley, as much as he's proven he can win, has also proven he will quit on a team. He quit on the Lakers when they lost Kareem. Not up for the challenge. He quit on New York while making an illegal agreement with the Heat. He quit on Miami TWICE. He coached the Heat to back-to-back losing seasons. And had a 15-loss season. Jerry Sloan NEVER had a season that bad in his entire career. Sloan never won fewer than 26 games in a season with the Jazz. Riley twice coached the Heat to fewer wins than that, and only won 15 games with a team that had Shaq and Wade on it. In 22 years with the Jazz, Sloan only had two losing seasons. In a season where Andrie Kirilenko was Utah's best player, and they were playing in a DEEP western conference, and the Jazz had JUST lost Karl Malone, John Stockton and Mark Jackson (and Calbert Cheaney who had been the third leading scorer the year before), Sloan managed to win 42 games with a team build around Matt Harpering and Kikirlenko. 42 wins! Playing against the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and the Duncan/Robinson Spurs, and the Garnett/Spreewell/Cassell T-Wolves, and the Webber Kings.

Do you think Riley could have won 42 games with Harpering and Kirilenko when he couldn't even win 16 games with Wade and Shaq?

FYL_McVeezy
04-22-2014, 01:42 PM
Much easier than you think....

Auerbach
Jackson
Popovich
Riley

Sly Guy
04-22-2014, 04:22 PM
Auerbuch, Popovich, Jackson, Wilkens.

Don't forget about Wilkens, people.

wilkens doesn't belong anywhere near the level of the rest of them. The winningest and losingest coach in history just means he's had the most coaching jobs, not that he's made the most of all of them.

slashsnake
04-22-2014, 09:26 PM
I like Lenny, and he surely hasn't had the situations some of the other guys here got, but if I am putting faces on Mt Rushmore, it is for what they've accomplished, not what they might have accomplished. Riley, Jackson, Popovich and Auerbach were never fired for having bad teams. They left teams on their terms. The best teams wanted them. Wilkins went 25 years straight without making an NBA finals... He was a great coach, don't get me wrong, just not worthy of top 4

todu82
04-22-2014, 09:37 PM
Jackson
Popovich
Auerbuch
Riley

JasonJohnHorn
04-22-2014, 10:13 PM
I like Lenny, and he surely hasn't had the situations some of the other guys here got, but if I am putting faces on Mt Rushmore, it is for what they've accomplished, not what they might have accomplished. Riley, Jackson, Popovich and Auerbach were never fired for having bad teams. They left teams on their terms. The best teams wanted them. Wilkins went 25 years straight without making an NBA finals... He was a great coach, don't get me wrong, just not worthy of top 4

Lenny Wilkens was a FANTASTIC coach.

I remember when he was with the Raptors, his last season, they had an NBA record for most games missed due to injury. It was a CRAZY season. They fired him at the end, but in reality, he managed to get wins with starters who'd never even played an NBA game before, or at the very least never even played for the Raptors. The 24 wins the team got that season was a miracle. They should have been in single-digit wins.


The problem with a lot of people is the go to the ring count, and we all know how flawed that logic is. Some guys don't get the same opportunities. Phil Jackson was an AMAZING coach, no doubt; one of the best ever if not the best. That said, he got to coach Jordan. How many other coaches can say that? One. That's it. And that guy (Doug Collins) got deeper in the playoffs each year he coached Jordan and then got fired despite his consistent improvement.

You get a guy like Lenny Wilkens, he takes over the Cavs and the Hawks and the Raptors... these are not great teams.... and they ALL get better with him coaching them. The Raptors have only won a playoff series with Wilkens.

People see Riley and Jackson who both got handed the keys to a dynasty, Riley especially since the Lakers had already won, and people fall back on their ring count to explain why they are better than Sloan or Wilkens. What makes Riley great isn't the fact he won with the Lakers, its the fact that he almost won with the Knicks. Magic got the coach fired, the organizations essentially brought in Riley because they knew Magic would to run the offense the way he wanted because Riley was a rookie coach. Magic was the general. Riley's best coaching was done in NY and that first round with Miami. He left the 'showtime' offense and reinvented the way he coached to make poor offensive teams great defensive teams, and THAT is where he did his best coaching. Neither team won, but Riley's coaching got them further than they would have gotten regardless.

Likewise, Jackson's best coaching out was like the 72-win season, but his second most impressive accomplishment was his 45 win season. They were starting Smush Parker and Kwambe Brown and they made the playoffs in the west. THAT is amazing.


When you get Shaq and Wade on your team, and you only win 15 games in a season, that shows you aren't int he covnersation or GOAT coach. Riley has quit on teams to. Riley has Shaq and Wade and wins 15 games in the East in a season where three teams made the playoffs and DIDN'T finish over .500 and a team with only 45 wins had homecourt, while Jerry Sloan coached a team whose best players were Andrie Kikilenko and Matt Harpring and he managed to finish OVER .500 in a WEST that 6 teams were 50 wins or more and a 42 win seasons wasn't enough to make the playoffs. These are the kinds of seasons where you see what a coach is really made of.


Riley is a HOF coach, one of the best ever, but Pop and Phil are at the top for me, with Red Sloan and Chuck Daly very close behind.

For me, I'd rather have Lenny Wilkens as my coach than Riley because Riley is always about himself first. His last season with the Knicks, he was already eying his job in Miami. That's not cool. He skipped out on the Lakers when Kareem retired because he didn't want to blemish his record, but Mike Dunleavy still managed to get the Lakers to the finals two years later. In Miami he's quit twice when the team wasn't winning because he didn't have the patience to coach a team through a rebuilding process, but when the team was contending again, he jumped in to get another ring. That doesn't impress me.



Only one coach win a title each year, it doesn't mean he's the best.