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View Full Version : What if Cleveland had been able to lure Free Agents?



Chronz
04-17-2014, 02:18 PM
In the summer of 2006, the Cavs had just won 50 games for the first time in the 2K Era and pushed the far superior defending conference champs to 7 games. They had boatloads of cap space and a quickly ascending superstar to lead them, they were a team on the rise. The kind of team most free agents would love, there was just 1 problem, it was a team situated in Cleveland.




They pursued 2 key free agents, Ray Allen, who had just come off a magical season in Seattle can be forgiven for not seeing the impending fall of his team. The other primary target was Michael Redd, if anyone would welcome the Cavs, its a local product who spent his entire amateur career in Ohio. But no, instead he chose to stay in MILWAUKEE of all places, this is after a sub.500 season and very little room for improvement.

You didn't hear too many people *****ing about players leaving small markets during this time, prolly because nobody cares when small markets are chasing small market players, its only a sin when one of them happens to join the few big markets we have.







Still, for the sake of argument, would adding Ray Allen OR Michael Redd instead of settling on the often injured Larry Hughes, have changed anything?

The Cavs wound up making the Finals in dramatic fashion, overtaking the superior Pistons in the East, only to get chewed up by the Spurs. This with Hughes injured and ineffective. Would either of these sharpshooters be the missing piece to eventually get the Cavs over the hump? They wound up greatly exceeding expectations when they added Redd's then teammate, Mo Williams. If giving Bron a non-All Star had such a dramatic impact, what would adding a true shooting star have done?







Does Cleveland win in any of the following years with Ray/Redd as the sidekick?

KnicksorBust
04-17-2014, 02:22 PM
The idea of Lebron getting to play with the best shooter of all time in their primes just reeks of at least one title.

Tony_Starks
04-17-2014, 02:38 PM
Didn't Boobie Gibson set some kind of record with 3's in that series against the Pistons? He's damn sure no Ray but as far as sharp shooters go he was pretty good that year. 3 point champ if memory serves correctly....

D-Leethal
04-17-2014, 02:44 PM
Cleveland must really suck balls as far as cities go.

mngopher35
04-17-2014, 03:33 PM
If they got Ray I think they would have had a decent chance moving forward (this might also eliminate one of their biggest obstacles in Boston's big 3). I don't know if Ray would have been enough for 2007.I don't think Lebron would be ready to take over that series anyways even if supporting casts were closer.

Hawkeye15
04-17-2014, 04:09 PM
Cleveland must really suck balls as far as cities go.

my brother said its not too bad. Guess I will take his word for it....

nickdymez
04-17-2014, 04:12 PM
Got dammit man. All these rhetorical questions about Lebron. Lebron Lebron Lebron Lebron!!!! What if they were able to lure a unicorn to Cleveland? Im sure that would have propelled them to the promise land. What if Lebron was really a nephilim? Although some of you probably believe he was. How many times are we gonna see this thread?

Cal827
04-17-2014, 04:13 PM
I would still question their post presence. James + Allen sounds like it would wreak havoc, but not completely sure they would win titles.

It's really unfortunate that Boozer decided to flee

Chronz
04-17-2014, 04:13 PM
Cleveland must really suck balls as far as cities go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

Chronz
04-17-2014, 04:19 PM
Got dammit man. All these rhetorical questions about Lebron. Lebron Lebron Lebron Lebron!!!! What if they were able to lure a unicorn to Cleveland? Im sure that would have propelled them to the promise land. What if Lebron was really a nephilim? Although some of you probably believe he was. How many times are we gonna see this thread?

Why does it annoy you to this point? Rhetorical? If you want to make a thread about unicorns, go for it, Im sure you will find it holds no relevance to basketball and thus closed immediately. This thread has literally never been made. If you mean how often will you see threads revolving around what if scenarios, you will be seeing them for the rest of time. Learn the discipline to bypass threads you dont have interest in, rather than expose yourself as a hater.

Or you can use this thread to finish the last question I asked you. Still very curious about where you were going with that one.

D-Leethal
04-17-2014, 04:29 PM
my brother said its not too bad. Guess I will take his word for it....

I was pretty much joking, but crazy how a team with such an impeccable situation, and an owner willing to spend, couldn't lure a FA to come play with LeBron ****ing James.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

OMFG, that "2nd attempt" was pure gold.

mightybosstone
04-17-2014, 04:39 PM
If Ray Allen signs with Cleveland in 2006, the Cavaliers win at least one title, if not several, and Lebron is probably still a Cavalier. Not only would Allen have been by far the best player Lebron ever played with in Cleveland, but he would have been a perfect compliment to his game and taken so much pressure off him offensively. And with those two locked in, the Cavs could have probably added another big piece in the coming years.

It's also worth noting that if Allen goes to Cleveland, those badass Celtics teams never exist. Because I highly doubt Garnett is going to Boston if Allen hadn't just become a Celtic. That Boston trio eliminated the Cavs in the playoffs in in 2008 and 2010.

However, Michael Redd is another story entirely. Redd had two decent years after 2006 before injuries cut his career woefully short. Could two years of prime Michael Redd have been enough to get the Cavs one ring? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. It's possible Redd could have stayed healthy and not been injured as often in Cleveland, but you have to assume he wouldn't have given them significantly more years of his prime than he gave to Milwaukee. It's also possible that by signing Redd, Cleveland could have attracted another star, but I'm not sure I buy that either.

There's just a lot of "what ifs" when it comes to that Cleveland team. Hell, just imagine if they had kept Boozer after the 2005 season? Lebron and a peak Carlos Boozer would have done some serious damage in that era.

Blitzace137
04-17-2014, 04:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

:laugh2:

nickdymez
04-17-2014, 04:45 PM
Why does it annoy you to this point? Rhetorical? If you want to make a thread about unicorns, go for it, Im sure you will find it holds no relevance to basketball and thus closed immediately. This thread has literally never been made. If you mean how often will you see threads revolving around what if scenarios, you will be seeing them for the rest of time. Learn the discipline to bypass threads you dont have interest in, rather than expose yourself as a hater.

Or you can use this thread to finish the last question I asked you. Still very curious about where you were going with that one.

Ok fine. Keep making pointless "What if LEBRON did this or that" threads.

To answer the other question. You were saying "How could Lebron win with Mo williams as his second best player?" My question was, who was Dirks number 2 option? Then you bought up how Mo barely made the all star game, I asked who else made the all star game on Dallas. Your point was that Lebron couldnt win with no other all stars on his team. I thought that was ironic considering that the same Dallas team beat Lebron when he had two of the best sidekicks and supporting casts recently

mightybosstone
04-17-2014, 04:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

:laugh: I remember seeing those videos years ago, and they were really popular on different websites and social media around the same time as The Decision. Can you imagine how unfunny those videos would have been for Cleveland fans to watch right after Lebron picked Miami? The "our economy's based on Lebron James" joke would have hurt so much.

D-Leethal
04-17-2014, 04:58 PM
I loved the part about the flammable AIDS river.

mightybosstone
04-17-2014, 05:03 PM
Ok fine. Keep making pointless "What if LEBRON did this or that" threads.

To answer the other question. You were saying "How could Lebron win with Mo williams as his second best player?" My question was, who was Dirks number 2 option? Then you bought up how Mo barely made the all star game, I asked who else made the all star game on Dallas. Your point was that Lebron couldnt win with no other all stars on his team. I thought that was ironic considering that the same Dallas team beat Lebron when he had two of the best sidekicks and supporting casts recently

That Dallas team was an anomaly. If you look at the entire history of the NBA since the 60s, you could probably count on one hand the amount of teams that won with a single superstar and no other All-Star caliber players. Hell, if you look at the 10-12 greatest players in the history of the game, the only players to come close to that accomplishment were Olajuwon in 1994 and Duncan in 2003.

But if you want to bring up that Dallas team, there are two guys worth mentioning. First, Chandler was instrumental in that team's success. He had a DPOY caliber season and had the best season of his career up to that point. Based on his advanced numbers and his impact on the team, you could make a strong case for him as an All-Star caliber player. Hell, he made the All-Star Game two years later in New York with very similar numbers. The second guy is Terry, who has never been an All-Star caliber player. But look at his numbers in that postseason: 18/3/2/1 on .478/.442/.843 shooting percentages, a 60.4 TS%, 20.3 PER and a .179 WS/48. That's a monster postseason. If Mo Williams had ever produced a postseason like that, Lebron might have won a ring with him as a No. 2. He never came remotely close.

nickdymez
04-17-2014, 05:05 PM
That Dallas team was an anomaly. If you look at the entire history of the NBA since the 60s, you could probably count on one hand the amount of teams that won with a single superstar and no other All-Star caliber players. Hell, if you look at the 10-12 greatest players in the history of the game, the only players to come close to that accomplishment were Olajuwon in 1994 and Duncan in 2003.

But if you want to bring up that Dallas team, there are two guys worth mentioning. First, Chandler was instrumental in that team's success. He had a DPOY caliber season and had the best season of his career up to that point. Based on his advanced numbers and his impact on the team, you could make a strong case for him as an All-Star caliber player. Hell, he made the All-Star Game two years later in New York with very similar numbers. The second guy is Terry, who has never been an All-Star caliber player. But look at his numbers in that postseason: 18/3/2/1 on .478/.442/.843 shooting percentages, a 60.4 TS%, 20.3 PER and a .179 WS/48. That's a monster postseason. If Mo Williams had ever produced a postseason like that, Lebron might have won a ring with him as a No. 2. He never came remotely close.

Another excuse post. Miss me with that.

Chronz
04-17-2014, 05:23 PM
Ok fine. Keep making pointless "What if LEBRON did this or that" threads.
As opposed to what, exactly? Everything we do here is pointless, the reason we post is because we want to talk ball. THATS IT. Thats the sole purpose I post anyways.


To answer the other question. You were saying "How could Lebron win with Mo williams as his second best player?" My question was, who was Dirks number 2 option? Then you bought up how Mo barely made the all star game, I asked who else made the all star game on Dallas. Your point was that Lebron couldnt win with no other all stars on his team. I thought that was ironic considering that the same Dallas team beat Lebron when he had two of the best sidekicks and supporting casts recently
I brought that up because it reflects poorly on Brons 2nd best teammate in Cleveland.

That Dallas team had several players better than Mo. Im still not seeing your point. Can you elaborate on how what Dallas accomplished has anything to do with Clevelands inferior team? Im glad you dropped Detroit from the comparison tho.

nickdymez
04-17-2014, 05:24 PM
As opposed to what, exactly? Everything we do here is pointless, the reason we post is because we want to talk ball. THATS IT. Thats the sole purpose I post anyways.


I brought that up because it reflects poorly on Brons 2nd best teammate in Cleveland.

That Dallas team had several players better than Mo. Im still not seeing your point. Can you elaborate on how what Dallas accomplished has anything to do with Clevelands inferior team? Im glad you dropped Detroit from the comparison tho.

Im done with you. Your're never going to admit to anything negative about Lebron.

SteBO
04-17-2014, 05:25 PM
LeBron would definitely have won at least 1 title.....did you see the roster he carried like a band of sand that year? Maybe they wouldn't have taken the Spurs down, but the could've probably won it the following year.

Cleveland just isn't an attractive FA destination if the owner isn't pissing away $$ left and right. Hell, wasn't Gilbert actually doing that? It still didn't change anything...

D-Leethal
04-17-2014, 05:26 PM
Im done with you. Your're never going to admit to anything negative about Lebron.

Theres a way to go about trolling LeBron - you're not doing it right. Theres a way to try and out duel Chronz - you're not doing it right. Screaming louder will never combat intelligence.

SteBO
04-17-2014, 05:26 PM
As opposed to what, exactly? Everything we do here is pointless, the reason we post is because we want to talk ball. THATS IT. Thats the sole purpose I post anyways.


I brought that up because it reflects poorly on Brons 2nd best teammate in Cleveland.

That Dallas team had several players better than Mo. Im still not seeing your point. Can you elaborate on how what Dallas accomplished has anything to do with Clevelands inferior team? Im glad you dropped Detroit from the comparison tho.

Im done with you. Your're never going to admit to anything negative about Lebron.
So you want nothing to do with facts? What's up with you dude? I know you don't like the guy, but you can at least acknowledge the facts...

Chronz
04-17-2014, 05:27 PM
I was pretty much joking, but crazy how a team with such an impeccable situation, and an owner willing to spend, couldn't lure a FA to come play with LeBron ****ing James.


I remember Jason Kidd trying to get traded to the Cavs at one point in his career, but aside from that, you had guys like Trevor Ariza demanding Bron reup before he commits himself to Cleveland. Bron couldn't do it.

D-Leethal
04-17-2014, 05:29 PM
I remember Jason Kidd trying to get traded to the Cavs at one point in his career, but aside from that, you had guys like Trevor Ariza demanding Bron reup before he commits himself to Cleveland. Bron couldn't do it.

There was also something with Amare but I can't remember if he said he wouldn't resign there and killed the trade or what. You remember those rumors?

SteBO
04-17-2014, 05:30 PM
I remember Jason Kidd trying to get traded to the Cavs at one point in his career, but aside from that, you had guys like Trevor Ariza demanding Bron reup before he commits himself to Cleveland. Bron couldn't do it.

There was also something with Amare but I can't remember if he said he wouldn't resign there and killed the trade or what. You remember those rumors?
I do. It had something to do with the GM not wanting to part with JJ Hickson if my memory serves me right.

mightybosstone
04-17-2014, 05:47 PM
PSD = 1980s high school gym class.

If that's the case, I'm totally up for a game of dodgeball later. I can't throw for ****, but I was kickass at the dodging part.

Chronz
04-17-2014, 05:54 PM
Im done with you. Your're never going to admit to anything negative about Lebron.

This is about his teammates tho.

Lets try this, how about you tell me which one of Dirks primary teammates was inferior to Mo Williams. Lets start with his best player, the DPOY caliber big that he finally won a ring with. Is Mo Williams better than Tyson? Then keep going on down till you find someone you would trust more than Mo, lets see how far you go down the list.

Chronz
04-17-2014, 05:55 PM
I would still question their post presence. James + Allen sounds like it would wreak havoc, but not completely sure they would win titles.

It's really unfortunate that Boozer decided to flee

He took advantage of the situation but it was Cleveland's cheapness that cost them IIRC. They were trying to sign a bargain deal, hoping he would keep his word.

Should have just kept him on a rookie contract and then resigned him when necessary. At least if Im remembering it right.

Tony_Starks
04-17-2014, 11:11 PM
It was said that Lebron tried to get Bosh to come to the Cavs before the MIA conglomerate and he told him to kick rocks.

I think Noah ethered the Cavs FA chances with his famous line in the playoffs "I never hear anybody going on vacation say they're going to Cleveland.....do you?"

Funny stuff! ( still lost tho )

gatkins11
04-17-2014, 11:19 PM
Another hypothetical. Consider if Cleveland had drafted better in recent years and not have reached on many of those picks. Would LeBron leave Miami for Cleveland at the conclusion of this post-season?

DudeItsZoltan
04-17-2014, 11:40 PM
somebody brought this up earlier. Cleveland could of had (healthy) Amare from Phoenix but refused to give up Hickson, who they traded less than one year later to Sac for Omri Casspi lol. So instead they get Jamison. The big what if is if they had gotten Amare. Could two super athletic forwards, along with Mo and Shaq, been enough to get past Boston and possibly win the title? If that title is won, does Lebron and Amare stay??? Probably one of the stupidest trade decisions ever made...

Tony_Starks
04-17-2014, 11:51 PM
somebody brought this up earlier. Cleveland could of had (healthy) Amare from Phoenix but refused to give up Hickson, who they traded less than one year later to Sac for Omri Casspi lol. So instead they get Jamison. The big what if is if they had gotten Amare. Could two super athletic forwards, along with Mo and Shaq, been enough to get past Boston and possibly win the title? If that title is won, does Lebron and Amare stay??? Probably one of the stupidest trade decisions ever made...

That Amare thing was never confirmed, in fact it was denied, so it's still up to interpretation. Me personally I don't really buy it. Not for Hickson.

DudeItsZoltan
04-17-2014, 11:56 PM
I know Phoenix wanted to make a run, but I remember them also knowing Amare was a free agent and they ultimately weren't going to bring him back. But maybe ESPN just blew it up too much like everything LeBron related lol

Arch Stanton
04-18-2014, 12:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

You realize this was made by a local Cleveland comedian who loves Cleveland. Here's some more Mike Polk for you:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VIe23C1NvU4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBDMMVctu8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj6xy4jqr1s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d89XjrIXCO8

Arch Stanton
04-18-2014, 12:36 AM
Didn't Boobie Gibson set some kind of record with 3's in that series against the Pistons? He's damn sure no Ray but as far as sharp shooters go he was pretty good that year. 3 point champ if memory serves correctly....

He had like 6 3's against Detroit. To answer the OPs question I don't think an Allen or a Redd would have helped the Cavs beat the Spurs in the finals. They may have won a game or two but no way they win the series. I had floor seats to that finals and it was probably one of the most uninteresting finals series.

Arch Stanton
04-18-2014, 12:43 AM
It was said that Lebron tried to get Bosh to come to the Cavs before the MIA conglomerate and he told him to kick rocks.

I think Noah ethered the Cavs FA chances with his famous line in the playoffs "I never hear anybody going on vacation say they're going to Cleveland.....do you?"

Funny stuff! ( still lost tho )

Yes but that's Noah whose playing a rival and should hate the Cavs, who were better than the Bulls at that point in time. This narrative is so old. I sure hope Noah has a bad experience in Cleveland. And if Cleveland has never been known as a vacation spot then the same should be said for Indy, Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc....

Arch Stanton
04-18-2014, 12:48 AM
He took advantage of the situation but it was Cleveland's cheapness that cost them IIRC. They were trying to sign a bargain deal, hoping he would keep his word.

Should have just kept him on a rookie contract and then resigned him when necessary. At least if Im remembering it right.

I believe the Boozer scenario occurred when Gund owned the team. Regardless, I wouldn't label them as cheap when Boozer never informed the team of the counter offer by the Jazz. Probably a poor move by the Cavs in hindsight. However, had they made the signing it would have been seen as a bargain deal perhaps.

Arch Stanton
04-18-2014, 01:05 AM
Here's another https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=odN5DzV1Uiw

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-18-2014, 03:22 AM
Got dammit man. All these rhetorical questions about Lebron. Lebron Lebron Lebron Lebron!!!! What if they were able to lure a unicorn to Cleveland? Im sure that would have propelled them to the promise land. What if Lebron was really a nephilim? Although some of you probably believe he was. How many times are we gonna see this thread?:laugh: