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View Full Version : Rank the bigs: DH12, DMC, Noah and Unibrow



JasonJohnHorn
04-16-2014, 10:50 AM
Dwight Howard was the most prized free agent going into the offseason. He was viewed by many as the BEST center in the league.

But is this true any long?

Looking at DMC's numbers, he's scoring more (though he is shooting more) and just as good a rebounder. Also, he actually know how to pass the fawking ball and make a play, something Dwight can't do without turning the ball over 2 times first.

Speaking to playmaking, Noah has been displaying a play making ability that is exceeded by no big man in NBA history over the last two months, and is actually even better than some point guards. Noah is averaging 5.5 assists a game, and only 2.5 turnovers (less than Dwight despite the fact he gets more than double the assists). As for defense, Dwight gets 0.9 steals and 1.8 blocks which equals 2.7, which is less than the 3.6 fouls he gets. Noah gets 1.2 steal and 1.5 blocks and only 3.1 fouls.

Defensively, though, it seems Anthony Davis is also the better of Dwight. He leads the league with 2.8 blocks AND gets 1.3 steals (a total of 4.1) which is GREAT than the 3.0 fouls he gets. He's also scoring more than Dwight (though he is shooting more) and though his assists are much more impressive than Dwight, he manages to get more assists than he does turnovers, which is something Dwight does do. I realize that AD is listed as a PF some nights, but let's be honest, he is is a C. Monty is pulling the old Pop trick: list your C as a PF.

So.. would you rank Dwight above any of these guys? Would the Rockets be better if they had any of these guys instead of Dwight?

Tony_Starks
04-16-2014, 10:58 AM
I'm not going to touch the second question. As to the first I'd easily take DMC or Noah over Dwight. Better all around players minus the free throw liability.

I can't really speak on AD because I think he plays more PF than center.

D-Leethal
04-16-2014, 10:59 AM
My personal preference:

Noah
Brow
Dwight
Cousins

Tomorrow:

Brow
Noah
Dwight
Cousins

If all I wanted was defense and rebounding:

Dwight
Noah
Brow
Cousins

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 11:04 AM
Dwight Howard is a good role player now. how quickly he has fallen, so:

1. davis
2. noah
3. gasol
4. dmc
5. dwight
6. drummond
7 . chandler

NYKnickFanatic
04-16-2014, 11:46 AM
Not going to rank them, but I would take Noah before anyone else on there.

Bring The Heat
04-16-2014, 11:52 AM
Man if you asked me who'd I want on the heat if I go to choose any center in the league I'd pick Joakim Noah.... To me he is the best center. The dude does it all and plays hard every single night.. Reminds me a lot of Alonzo Mourning with the tenacity and energy he puts out on both ends of the floor. He annoys the hell out of me when we play against him but I'd love that guy on my team.

rockets-fan
04-16-2014, 12:19 PM
Give me

Noah
Howard
Davis
Cousins

In that order. Howard is much improved but most people won't see that. Noah is not the better player , but he plays better by hustling more, being relentless on defense, ect.


As for your second question. No. Although I'd take Noah over Howard, Noah is way way way worse offensivly(scoring wise) than Howard IMO, Howard if asked to, can still be the number one option for a contender. Noah IMO can not. And the reason I say the rockets are better as is, is because they go on droughts when harden is off his game, until Howard is fed the ball and asked to take over the scoring load. Noah IMO could not be asked to do that if harden was out for what ever reason.

Davis is like Duncan to me, a pf.

Cousins scores more hit is the number one option on a piss poor team. No thank you.

ManRam
04-16-2014, 12:24 PM
Dwight's still the most impacting defender of the bunch, but offensively he's the weakest as well. Noah is the only one of the group that's in Dwight's range defensively, and he's pretty close to it IMO. Davis has the potential to be a great defender but it hasn't become a reality quite yet and Cousins, while I think he's made strides and the raw on/off numbers suggest his impact is being felt, well...he's not on that level either.

I think the advancement and more common acceptance of these advanced +/- stats are making one thing hugely clear: centers in the NBA don't have a huge impact offensively, nor does it really matter if they do. At the very least, it's FAR more important to have a dominant defensive center than an offensively talented one.

But since Noah's offensive game is quite a bit more solid and the gap defensively isn't huge, I'll take him. After him, it all depends on what you need. I'm taking Dwight if I need that defensive anchor. I'm taking Davis over Cousins, and obviously the other two, if I'm looking for a young player to build around.

--------------

And pardon me for completely not-acknowledging your usage of blocks and steals to prove that Davis has been the better defender. That's a silly way to gauge defense.

Howard holds opponents to a 47.9% FG% at the rim. Noah's at 46.7%. Davis is at 48.9% and Boogie at 51.1%.

Synergy stats:
Overall Dwight's at 0.83 PPP defensively. Posting up he's at 0.74 and as the P&R roll man he's 0.81.
Overall Noah's at 0.84 PPP defensively. Posting up he's at 0.79 and as the roll man he's 0.76.
Overall Davis is at 0.84 PPP defensively. Posting up he's at 0.81 and as the roll man he's at 0.79.
Overall Boogie's at 0.85 PPP defensively. Posting up he's at 0.79 and as the roll man he's an even 1.0.

Real -/+ (defensive)
Howard: 4.97
Noah: 3.78
Boogie: 1.39
Davis: 0.60

Defensive rating and DWS rank them both Noah-Howard-Cousins-Davis. There's always noise involved with those stats influenced by team play, however.

On/Off (net difference in offensive rating when off the court as compared to on it)
Noah: -0.1
Howard: -1.4 (even with the game's best (?) backup center)
Cousins: -3.3 (referenced his on/off prowess earlier...he's got some ****** backups, tho)
Davis: -0.2


I don't always like making defense statistical because I do think even statistically it's the hardest to guage...but if all you're gonna throw out there are blocks and steals, I think more needs to be said. Steals and blocks are valuable, but they tell so little about overall influence on a game.

Gun to my head for the short term 1. Joey 2. Howard 3. Davis 4. Cousins

Stinkyoutsider
04-16-2014, 12:28 PM
Right now, I'm taking Noah. The only thing he doesn't do really well is score against his man but he will hit a jumper every once in a while.

If it wasn't for his attitude, you couldn't go wrong with saying it's Cousins. With all of his skills and talent, I just can't put faith in a guy who'll blow up on the court at any given time.

I still say that Dwight is still bothered by his back. He hasn't had the explosion and athleticism since he first came out and said he had a disc problem. An entire year (at least) after surgery and he still doens't look like he did for the Magic. He relies on being a top athlete so much that he's struggling putting up his usual performances...

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 12:33 PM
Dwight Howard is a good role player now. how quickly he has fallen, so:

anthony davis, noah, dmc then Dwight.

Are you trolling or just ignorant? What type of "role player" plays the best defense in the NBA and averages 18 and 12.

You either don't know what a role player is, or you don't know who Dwight Howard is.

MrfadeawayJB
04-16-2014, 12:34 PM
Is say Davis is a pf. That's the safest position for him long term

Clippersfan86
04-16-2014, 12:36 PM
Lmao at Davis being a better defender than Dwight because of blocks and steals. HELL NO he isn't. Anyway to answer the question... THIS YEAR

Noah
Dwight
Davis
Cousins

Cousins still doesn't play much D and doesn't know what winning is. Davis is great but overrated on D and again is on a mediocre team. Noah and Dwight are winning and are the best defensive anchors of this group.

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 12:37 PM
Davis
Howard
Noah
Cousins

First off Davis is not a "big man", but in another year or 2 he'll be a top 5 player in the NBA. I don't have faith in Cousins being anything more than a scorer so he comes in last. If I was picking for 1 year it would be Howard hands down no contest. Noah is hard to place. I almost put him ahead of Dwight, but even though he's great at defense he's nothing compared to Dwight, but he's also more of a leader than Dwight. That would be a hard choice for me to make.

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 12:40 PM
Also no. Rockets would not be better. They'd be really good with Noah still though. Maybe just as good.

The rest of them don't fit though. Cousins would be a horrible fit. You could probably make an argument for Davis just because they have Asik.

I still don't see it working out any better (especially with the emergence of Terrence Jones) with anyone but Dwight. MAYBE Noah... but that's it. Davis in the future, but he's way too raw right now.

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 01:11 PM
Are you trolling or just ignorant? What type of "role player" plays the best defense in the NBA and averages 18 and 12.

You either don't know what a role player is, or you don't know who Dwight Howard is.

a player who only dunks & plays defense is a good role player

best defense in the nba? lol. if it was 4-5 yrs ago. Hell yes.
lol at Dwight can be the number #1 option, go to guy. good luck shooting free throws, dwight

ManRam
04-16-2014, 01:13 PM
a player who only dunks & plays defense is a good role player

best defense in the nba? lol. if it was 4-5 yrs ago. Hell yes.
lol at Dwight can be the number #1 option, go to guy. good luck shooting free throws, dwight

Reducing his game to simply "dunking" and "playing defense" is a bit disingenuous, no?

effen5
04-16-2014, 01:19 PM
Dwight is just a better version of Tyson chandler

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 01:20 PM
Reducing his game to simply "dunking" and "playing defense" is a bit disingenuous, no?

a little harsh, but thats his main strength. yeh he does other things too, but not very good

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 01:27 PM
Dwight is just a better version of Tyson chandler

lol. nowadays hes being compared to tyson chandler. man, has this guy fallen off a cliff or something. dwight howard, the next 'skinny' Shaq.

JLynn943
04-16-2014, 01:29 PM
I don't think it's fair to compare Davis to the other 3 simply because I still think he's a PF.

If I need a center though, it's tough and would probably depend on team needs. Cousins is best suited to be the primary scorer on a team, but his defense is obviously not as good as Noah's or Dwight's (even though I think it's better than people realize). If a team doesn't need their center to be the primary scorer, I'd probably take Noah over Dwight. Noah can obviously be used as a facilitator and brings great defense. Dwight is still great, but Noah is just that good imo.

flea
04-16-2014, 01:32 PM
For short-term: Noah, Davis, Howard, Cousins

For long-term: Davis, Noah, Cousins, Howard

I respect Cousins's strides but until I see more I'm always going to prefer the defensive certainty of Noah. I also respect Noah's offensive strides (very underrated off the dribble and in transition, good half-court playmaker, workable jumper from 15 and in) just as much though, and I could see him getting even better. Centers like him can last a long time.

P&GRealist
04-16-2014, 01:36 PM
Well we know Dwight is no longer a top 10 player in the league.

For me, he's fallen down to top 20 at best. There are just other guys who are more impactful, versatile and reliable than him.


But as far as fulfilling the roles of the big, give me Noah and Davis any day of the week.

DMC seems will never fully "get it", bad temper, an idiot, he could go kick rocks.

Bruno
04-16-2014, 01:37 PM
without running numbers, my preference... Davis and Noah are on the same level and are interchangeable, as are Dwight and DMC. I'd put Marc Gasol between the two pairings.

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 01:47 PM
Well we know Dwight is no longer a top 10 player in the league.

For me, he's fallen down to top 20 at best. There are just other guys who are more impactful, versatile and reliable than him.


But as far as fulfilling the roles of the big, give me Noah and Davis any day of the week.

DMC seems will never fully "get it", bad temper, an idiot, he could go kick rocks.

use to be #2 only to lebron couple years ago. now he's top 20. lol. lakers should never trade this guy after he had that back surgery.

P&GRealist
04-16-2014, 01:54 PM
use to be #2 only to lebron couple years ago. now he's top 20. lol. lakers should never trade this guy after he had that back surgery.

He's really fallen off both from a physical standpoint and protecting the rim.

He looks so slim now, he looks like a 6'11'' shooting guard. His post moves have NOT improved. He's still unreliable in the clutch from free throws. He's not much of the leader we all thought he was as Harden and Parsons are what drive that team, the heart and soul.

Tony_Starks
04-16-2014, 01:57 PM
People are still hung up on the Dwight that got Magic to the finals. They conveniently forget they got there by default because KG was out. They also forget he got handled by bad knees Bynum and Gasol. No double team needed.

Even still back then we all said the same thing: "man once he gets a offensive game he's going to be UNSTOPPABLE!"

Yeah.....that was like 5 years ago.

Chronz
04-16-2014, 02:07 PM
People are still hung up on the Dwight that got Magic to the finals. They conveniently forget they got there by default because KG was out. They also forget he got handled by bad knees Bynum and Gasol. No double team needed.

Even still back then we all said the same thing: "man once he gets a offensive game he's going to be UNSTOPPABLE!"

Yeah.....that was like 5 years ago.

Just about every playoff team was able to defend him 1 on 1, except of course, for Brons Cavs. But to Dwight's credit, he got to the point where if you defend him 1 on 1 with a stout post defender like Collins, he would drop 30+ on you. He never got to the point where he demanded double teams on every possession like great post scorers but he was getting there before his injury. He was even improving his post passing. Now the guy cant even hang on to the ball some post possessions.

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 02:07 PM
People are still hung up on the Dwight that got Magic to the finals. They conveniently forget they got there by default because KG was out. They also forget he got handled by bad knees Bynum and Gasol. No double team needed.

Even still back then we all said the same thing: "man once he gets a offensive game he's going to be UNSTOPPABLE!"

Yeah.....that was like 5 years ago.

he would be unstoppable if he develop even a hook shot & 60% FT. role player, 3rd option at best

Chronz
04-16-2014, 02:08 PM
He's really fallen off both from a physical standpoint and protecting the rim.

He looks so slim now, he looks like a 6'11'' shooting guard. His post moves have NOT improved. He's still unreliable in the clutch from free throws. He's not much of the leader we all thought he was as Harden and Parsons are what drive that team, the heart and soul.

6"11? Dafuq? Dude is 6"9, 6"10 at most (with shoes). His post game has degraded tho, Ill give you that. Tho its prolly better than it was in LA.

Still, hes had a fine season for a contender, a contender he makes better. Harden is prolly their most important player but Dwight is next in line. I actually think Houston would be favorites if they had young Dwight, but Im starting to think the guy is doomed to be a guy whos just not good enough to lead his team.

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 02:12 PM
He's really fallen off both from a physical standpoint and protecting the rim.

He looks so slim now, he looks like a 6'11'' shooting guard. His post moves have NOT improved. He's still unreliable in the clutch from free throws. He's not much of the leader we all thought he was as Harden and Parsons are what drive that team, the heart and soul.

dude should be pushing people around with that superman body of his.

Tony_Starks
04-16-2014, 02:18 PM
It's funny how many people hate on Cousins strictly because of his "attitude." I mean are you trying to date him? I remember a guy named Sheed with the same label that helped Detroit get a chip and multiple ECF's.

Hate on Cousins all you want but he's still one of the best bigs in the game.

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 02:18 PM
6"11? Dafuq? Dude is 6"9, 6"10 at most (with shoes). His post game has degraded tho, Ill give you that. Tho its prolly better than it was in LA.

Still, hes had a fine season for a contender, a contender he makes better. Harden is prolly their most important player but Dwight is next in line. I actually think Houston would be favorites if they had young Dwight, but Im starting to think the guy is doomed to be a guy whos just not good enough to lead his team.

in a couple of years, dwight howard will be a good role player for a championship contending team. his career is almost done. but dwight howard reminds me of deandre jordan

Bruno
04-16-2014, 02:24 PM
use to be #2 only to lebron couple years ago. now he's top 20. lol. lakers should never trade this guy after he had that back surgery.

when was dwight the second best player in the NBA?

P&GRealist
04-16-2014, 02:28 PM
when was dwight the second best player in the NBA?

3rd best player behind Kobe and LeBron in 2009

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 02:36 PM
3rd best player behind Kobe and LeBron in 2009

Oops I daisy, I forgot about Colby.

Kyben36
04-16-2014, 02:52 PM
Brow, cant denny him, see him as the best big man in the nba in 2 years
DMC- Love his game, has a head ache issue, but moving foward i would take him
Noah- I have a hard time rating him above Dwight, but Dwights imaturity puts him above NOah
Dwight- how the best C in the nba go down to the bottom of this list, by being a headache and not using his ability to be the best big in the league.

todu82
04-16-2014, 03:21 PM
Noah
Howard
Cousins
Davis

FOBolous
04-16-2014, 03:22 PM
for me...Noah and Dwight is interchangeable....followed by Davis than DMC.

While Noah may not have the scoring abilities off Dwight, Davis, and DMC...he has other skills that compensates for that.

Dwight because, among all Cs, he's top 5 on offense and defense.

Davis is 3rd because i see him more as a PF than a C. While a good defender in his own right, he doesn't defense as well as Noah or Dwight.

DMC is last because he's the worse defender of the bunch (defense is essential for a big imo) and because he's headcase. Him being a headcase = to not being a good leader.

pebloemer
04-16-2014, 03:24 PM
If I'm ranking them today:

Noah
Dwight
Cousins
Davis

If I'm ranking for who I'd want for the next 5-10 years:

Davis
Noah
Cousins
Dwight

BALLER R
04-16-2014, 03:29 PM
I don't think Dwight is that great to be honest. Defense is great but All around game I rather have Noah.
I thought Dwight was going to become dominate and unstoppable. He's good but not as great as I had expected.

BALLER R
04-16-2014, 03:30 PM
Cousins could become the best out of all of them.

AddiX
04-16-2014, 03:31 PM
It's funny how many people hate on Cousins strictly because of his "attitude." I mean are you trying to date him? I remember a guy named Sheed with the same label that helped Detroit get a chip and multiple ECF's.

Hate on Cousins all you want but he's still one of the best bigs in the game.

Yes, and Sheed was also considered an underachiever who needed to work on his attitude until he got to detroit. Let's also not forget, sheed had all time great level talent, how often do you hear anyone talk about him being a all time great?

As for ranking them right now, I'm taking Noah, unibrow, DMC, Dwight.

ewing
04-16-2014, 03:34 PM
It's funny how many people hate on Cousins strictly because of his "attitude." I mean are you trying to date him? I remember a guy named Sheed with the same label that helped Detroit get a chip and multiple ECF's.

Hate on Cousins all you want but he's still one of the best bigs in the game.


I love Sheed but he was a career underachiever if there ever was one. LB, realized he wanted nothing to do with being a go to scorer and used him accordingly

shep33
04-16-2014, 04:00 PM
I think Noah has been the best big this year. Defensively he's a huge impact player, he's mobile enough to effectively guard P&R's.

Offensively, he's probably overtaken Marc Gasol as the best passing big man. He's had an amazing season, and should be a top 5 MVP candidate

Clippersfan86
04-16-2014, 04:08 PM
Cousins' attitude isn't even the biggest issue. His defense is. He still cannot defend worth a lick 3 years into his career. He's got very agile feet, great footwork, immovable strength and size. Zero excuse to not be at least "decent" on D by now. It's all effort and mentality. Offensively... he's as skilled as anybody obviously.

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 04:14 PM
a player who only dunks & plays defense is a good role player

best defense in the nba? lol. if it was 4-5 yrs ago. Hell yes.
lol at Dwight can be the number #1 option, go to guy. good luck shooting free throws, dwight

Oh I get it. You don't know what basketball is.

The comment "all he does is play defense and dunk" is priceless. You do realize defense is half the game, and Dwight Howard is still one of the best at that half right? You do realize he gets 18 ppg with a little over 2 dunks a game right? You do realize he's a top 5 rebounder right?

Please let me know of your other role player that anchors a defense while putting up those numbers?

alexander_37
04-16-2014, 04:27 PM
Oh I get it. You don't know what basketball is.

The comment "all he does is play defense and dunk" is priceless. You do realize defense is half the game, and Dwight Howard is still one of the best at that half right? You do realize he gets 18 ppg with a little over 2 dunks a game right? You do realize he's a top 5 rebounder right?

Please let me know of your other role player that anchors a defense while putting up those numbers?

Because bro, even though his stats are almost the same as his career highs he isn't the same. Eye test bro.

Tony_Starks
04-16-2014, 04:37 PM
I love Sheed but he was a career underachiever if there ever was one. LB, realized he wanted nothing to do with being a go to scorer and used him accordingly

I think there's a difference between underachieving and just not being built to be a leader. I remember Steve Kerr said when he played with Sheed as good as he was he was very unselfish, almost to a fault, and never wanted to be "that guy."

But like you said, used properly he was extremely effective.

He was basically the anti-Dwight. He had all the skills but didn't want to be the man, whereas Dwight is extremely limited but thinks he should be the man.

ManRam
04-16-2014, 04:52 PM
a little harsh, but thats his main strength. yeh he does other things too, but not very good

Defense is, you know, half the game tho...

ManRam
04-16-2014, 04:57 PM
when was dwight the second best player in the NBA?

A very strong argument could be made in 2009-2010 and 2010-11. :shrug:

Behind LeBron both years IMO. But no one besides LeBron ranked above him in RAPM those years. Third in Win Shares both seasons. He made obvious gains in his offensive game those two years. I was a Howard critic, even for a Magic fan. A few guys (MBS really) questioned if I even liked the Magic at times because I'd rail Howard. But those two years...well...there was nothing to complain about. THe most dominant defender in the NBA by a mile and a half and certainly more than capable offensively. I maintain that no single player had a more significant impact on his team those two seasons than he did (besides obviously LeBron). Second best player both years? IDK. But close to it at least. He was more valuable to his team the year Rose won his MVP than Rose was, for instance.

People have caught amnesia with him. He's not what he once was, but he once was an amazingly dominant player.

chitownredbulls
04-16-2014, 05:22 PM
Cousins all day
unibrow
howard
noah

RipCity32
04-16-2014, 05:56 PM
Davis
Howard
Noah
Cousins

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 07:00 PM
I think there's a difference between underachieving and just not being built to be a leader. I remember Steve Kerr said when he played with Sheed as good as he was he was very unselfish, almost to a fault, and never wanted to be "that guy."

But like you said, used properly he was extremely effective.

He was basically the anti-Dwight. He had all the skills but didn't want to be the man, whereas Dwight is extremely limited but thinks he should be the man.

Lakers fans keep saying this. Is Dwight the man in Houston?

Get it through your Laker logic. The only thing Dwight didn't want to do is be a Laker. That's it. The rest is BS. Stop spinning it. Ask Houston fans if they have a problem with Dwight on their team.

macc
04-16-2014, 07:05 PM
I'll be in the minority and I'm fine with that in saying I would take Cousins over anyone else. People bash him but tend to forget 2 things. 1) He's on a garbage team w/ no depth at all and 2) He's only 23 years old!


Anyone with two eyes can see Cousins is the most skilled big man in the game. Give him time on the winning thing. When you're on a garbage team with no depth it's tough to win games.

People saying Noah. Give me a break. Who is afraid to face Noah in the playoffs? Sure he's good. He's not the best C in the league. People have such a knee jerk reaction when it comes to this stuff.

Davis isn't there yet but he has the potential to be one of the top 5 players in the NBA in the next 2 seasons. That guy is special.

Howard is what he is. I believe he's about maxed out what he will be, which is a defensive force and a 17-20 pt scorer.

In any case, Cousins is the most skilled C in the league. I would love to hear the guy who says that is wrong.

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 07:16 PM
I'll be in the minority and I'm fine with that in saying I would take Cousins over anyone else. People bash him but tend to forget 2 things. 1) He's on a garbage team w/ no depth at all and 2) He's only 23 years old!


Anyone with two eyes can see Cousins is the most skilled big man in the game. Give him time on the winning thing. When you're on a garbage team with no depth it's tough to win games.

People saying Noah. Give me a break. Who is afraid to face Noah in the playoffs? Sure he's good. He's not the best C in the league. People have such a knee jerk reaction when it comes to this stuff.

Davis isn't there yet but he has the potential to be one of the top 5 players in the NBA in the next 2 seasons. That guy is special.

Howard is what he is. I believe he's about maxed out what he will be, which is a defensive force and a 17-22 pt scorer.

In any case, Cousins is the most skilled C in the league. I would love to hear the guy who says that is wrong.

Best offensive skills? Sure. He's got the best post skills out of any of those guys, and solid court vision. If I'm going long term over right now though it's Davis by a long shot, and he's also the worse defender by far on this list, and a rather poor rebounder.

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 07:19 PM
TBH Anthony Davis is probably more skilled than Demarcus Cousins now that I think about it.

Anthony Davis will probably end up the best player out of all these. Dwight is probably the best now or Noah. Davis is a machine though. He's on another level for his age especially.

Cousins is great post, and footwork... That's really it though.

macc
04-16-2014, 07:52 PM
Best offensive skills? Sure. He's got the best post skills out of any of those guys, and solid court vision. If I'm going long term over right now though it's Davis by a long shot, and he's also the worse defender by far on this list, and a rather poor rebounder.


I wouldn't disagree with you with Davis. As I stated in my post. He could very well be a top 5 player in this league, if he's not already.

Nick O
04-16-2014, 08:00 PM
right now. id go
Davis
Howard
Cousins
Noah

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 08:04 PM
Oh I get it. You don't know what basketball is.

The comment "all he does is play defense and dunk" is priceless. You do realize defense is half the game, and Dwight Howard is still one of the best at that half right? You do realize he gets 18 ppg with a little over 2 dunks a game right? You do realize he's a top 5 rebounder right?

Please let me know of your other role player that anchors a defense while putting up those numbers?

He plays "aiight" defense. I give you that. But hes a role player compare to what he was 5 yrs ago. You happy?

bathroom_man
04-16-2014, 08:06 PM
Defense is, you know, half the game tho...

Well alot of guys half the game also, all im saying his defense is aiight but not that great what it used to be

PLAYERS FAN
04-16-2014, 08:55 PM
I'm taking Al Jefferson over all of them.;)

M.Bibby2.0
04-16-2014, 09:31 PM
Best offensive skills? Sure. He's got the best post skills out of any of those guys, and solid court vision. If I'm going long term over right now though it's Davis by a long shot, and he's also the worse defender by far on this list, and a rather poor rebounder.

Boogie has the best rebounding rate of the group in question and is second to KG (20 mpg) in defensive rebounding rate. He's also 5th in PER. Even with defense factored I'd go:

Davis
Cousins
Dwight
Noah

I know Noah is playing fantastic lately but when you factor in his career averages and especially durability, its hard to justify him above any of these guys in my book.

NBA_Starter
04-16-2014, 09:44 PM
Noah
Brow
DH12
DMC

Nick O
04-16-2014, 09:51 PM
are we counting Jefferson as a big? i know his defense is pretty bad but this guy... DAMN ... hes been ****ing good....

ztilzer31
04-16-2014, 10:27 PM
Boogie has the best rebounding rate of the group in question and is second to KG (20 mpg) in defensive rebounding rate. He's also 5th in PER. Even with defense factored I'd go:

Davis
Cousins
Dwight
Noah

I know Noah is playing fantastic lately but when you factor in his career averages and especially durability, its hard to justify him above any of these guys in my book.

Neither PER nor Rebound rate mean anything to me.

Shammyguy3
04-16-2014, 10:30 PM
I know Noah is playing fantastic lately but when you factor in his career averages and especially durability, its hard to justify him above any of these guys in my book.

What about Boogie's career averages being relatively (putting it nicely) inefficient? And durability - hah. Noah's played in 91% of regular season games the past two years and this season combined, a total of 7,148 minutes. Dwight's played in 87% of the games, total of 7,163 minutes. Cousins = also 91% (6,537 total minutes). Davis in his two year tenure has only played in 80% of possible games.

Noah's played the same percentage of games as Boogie (ahead of Dwight and Davis), is only short of Howard by 15 total minutes played (ahead of Boogie). So durability is a TERRIBLE reason to put Noah that low. And Noah's career averages under Thibs are per36: 12.3ppg 11.3rpg 3.9apg 1.7bpg 1.1spg 2.3tov ...... this year's per36 numbers are 12.9ppg 11.5rpg 5.5apg 1.5bpg 1.3spg 2.5tov

Career ORtg of 113 and DRtg of 99... this year, ORtg of 111 and DRtg of 96.
Career PER of 19.2 under Thibs ... this year, 20.1
Career WS/48 of 0.188 under Thibs ... this year, 0.191

Noah's the definition of consistency... he's just currently having a career high usage rate and being the focal point of an offense for obvious reasons.

Put Noah wherever you want, but putting him 4th for this ranking due to durability and playing above his career norm is the silliest combination of reasons why you should do so.

M.Bibby2.0
04-16-2014, 10:59 PM
What about Boogie's career averages being relatively (putting it nicely) inefficient? And durability - hah. Noah's played in 91% of regular season games the past two years and this season combined, a total of 7,148 minutes. Dwight's played in 87% of the games, total of 7,163 minutes. Cousins = also 91% (6,537 total minutes). Davis in his two year tenure has only played in 80% of possible games.

Noah's played the same percentage of games as Boogie (ahead of Dwight and Davis), is only short of Howard by 15 total minutes played (ahead of Boogie). So durability is a TERRIBLE reason to put Noah that low. And Noah's career averages under Thibs are per36: 12.3ppg 11.3rpg 3.9apg 1.7bpg 1.1spg 2.3tov ...... this year's per36 numbers are 12.9ppg 11.5rpg 5.5apg 1.5bpg 1.3spg 2.5tov

Career ORtg of 113 and DRtg of 99... this year, ORtg of 111 and DRtg of 96.
Career PER of 19.2 under Thibs ... this year, 20.1
Career WS/48 of 0.188 under Thibs ... this year, 0.191

Noah's the definition of consistency... he's just currently having a career high usage rate and being the focal point of an offense for obvious reasons.

Put Noah wherever you want, but putting him 4th for this ranking due to durability and playing above his career norm is the silliest combination of reasons why you should do so.

Career norm holds more merit for Noah because he's 29 and has played 7 seasons. Cousins is 23 and just broke out this year, for all we know he hasn't hit his ceiling and could improve each of the next 5 years. The same obviously goes for Davis. My point is that the most recent season for young fellas holds more merit then it does for vets.

You also chose a convenient sample size for Noah's durability, (albeit recent - to your credit, I also forgot about the lockout season and was just looking at games played). I'll stand corrected on durability, Noah is consistent, but I'll take massive upside and potential over Noah's level of consistency.

M.Bibby2.0
04-16-2014, 11:01 PM
Neither PER nor Rebound rate mean anything to me.

My point on rebounding rate means you're blatantly wrong about him being a poor rebounder, you can make the case that he's the best rebounder of the 4.

Shammyguy3
04-16-2014, 11:09 PM
Career norm holds more merit for Noah because he's 29 and has played 7 seasons. Cousins is 23 and just broke out this year, for all we know he hasn't hit his ceiling and could improve each of the next 5 years.The same obviously goes for Davis. My point is that the most recent season for young fellas holds more merit then it does for vets.

Who says Noah's hit his ceiling? Not to mention, this is a thread asking people to rate players today. Next year means little, 5 years from now means nothing. And the career norms bit, that also means very little because we're talking about THIS SEASON. Heading into the playoffs. Not "over the past 7 years." Again, there's no point to bring up career norms in this scenario, especially when you just admitted that the "career norms" argument you had can not distinguish Noah from two out of the three guys in this list.



You also chose a convenient sample size for Noah's durability, (albeit recent - to your credit, I also forgot about the lockout season and was just looking at games played). I'll stand corrected on durability, Noah is consistent, but I'll take massive upside and potential over Noah's level of consistency.

What other sample size would you like to use? If you go back even another season, to where Noah had foot surgery I believe it was, he's still played in 82% of possible regular season games. That comes out to 68 games a year. Dwight for example played in 71 games this regular season. Davis in only 68 games. Boogie in only 72.

So, even including the season where Noah missed 34 games, his average number of games played is still equal to the very guys he's being compared to for this season alone.

And again to the last sentence, we're not talking about upside or potential. We're talking about: who's the best, second best, third best, and worst player of this list TODAY.

Vinny642
04-16-2014, 11:12 PM
IM happy with Davis on my team.

Each big brings a different aspect to the game.

M.Bibby2.0
04-16-2014, 11:42 PM
Who says Noah's hit his ceiling? Not to mention, this is a thread asking people to rate players today. Next year means little, 5 years from now means nothing. And the career norms bit, that also means very little because we're talking about THIS SEASON. Heading into the playoffs. Not "over the past 7 years." Again, there's no point to bring up career norms in this scenario, especially when you just admitted that the "career norms" argument you had can not distinguish Noah from two out of the three guys in this list.




What other sample size would you like to use? If you go back even another season, to where Noah had foot surgery I believe it was, he's still played in 82% of possible regular season games. That comes out to 68 games a year. Dwight for example played in 71 games this regular season. Davis in only 68 games. Boogie in only 72.

So, even including the season where Noah missed 34 games, his average number of games played is still equal to the very guys he's being compared to for this season alone.

And again to the last sentence, we're not talking about upside or potential. We're talking about: who's the best, second best, third best, and worst player of this list TODAY.

You brought up Cousins' career inefficiency (despite his FG% being higher than Noah's this year), my counter is that its skewed due to his youth and inefficient previous seasons. You say say Noah's the definition of consistency, then his previous seasons reflect on how good he currently is. Regardless I'm not seeing where the OP specify's this moment as a snapshot, not that it changes my rank.

Regarding Noah's ceiling, just based on when players usually peak in their careers, Noah's current production is likely as good it'll get. That's speculative though, and you can argue it until the cows come home.

Shammyguy3
04-17-2014, 12:04 AM
You brought up Cousins' career inefficiency (despite his FG% being higher than Noah's this year), my counter is that its skewed due to his youth and inefficient previous seasons. You say say Noah's the definition of consistency, then his previous seasons reflect on how good he currently is. Regardless I'm not seeing where the OP specify's this moment as a snapshot, not that it changes my rank.

Regarding Noah's ceiling, just based on when players usually peak in their careers, Noah's current production is likely as good it'll get. That's speculative though, and you can argue it until the cows come home.

You brought up "Noah's outperforming his career numbers, so i'm gonna dock him for that." In which case, I brought up Cousins' career efficiency rates. Cousins' is definitely skewed because of his first two years of play, but that further reinstates my position that your argument is highly flawed: career numbers mean nothing in this debate, for a number of reasons.

Noah is the definition of consistency. This season is arguably his best season yet. I didn't bring up previous seasons to show how good he currently is, not at all. That's an incorrect deduction on your part. I brought up Noah's career numbers to show you that your argument was still wrong: he's not outproducing his "normal self" (even if it mattered, which it still doesn't, but if it did, it wouldn't matter because Noah's season this year isn't some outlier).


I don't care to argue Noah's peak, future production or anything right now. I'm arguing why your reasoning for putting Noah last (which you could justifiably do so I guess depending on what you value most) is pigeon-holed at best.

lol, please
04-17-2014, 01:13 AM
Bogut gets no respect

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 09:42 AM
My point on rebounding rate means you're blatantly wrong about him being a poor rebounder, you can make the case that he's the best rebounder of the 4.

Boy I've heard some homer *** statements before but god damn dude. This is one of the best.

Nick O
04-17-2014, 09:53 AM
Bogut gets no respect

Bogut is made of glass.

ATX
04-17-2014, 09:57 AM
Bogut gets no respect

He just can't stay healthy and his 7ppg and 10rpg isn't blowing anyone away. His FT shooting is abysmal as well, though his FG% was at a career high season.

ManRam
04-17-2014, 11:30 AM
Well alot of guys half the game also, all im saying his defense is aiight but not that great what it used to be

No doubt. But for centers, defense is more important than offense and I don't think it's even close any more.

FlashBolt
04-17-2014, 11:51 AM
I'm taking Noah. Most skilled big man. Great defense, hustle, energetic, and the best teammate you can have at the C. Does everything so well it's undeniable. I would have taken Dwight but he hasn't developed worth crap over the years.

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 01:13 PM
No doubt. But for centers, defense is more important than offense and I don't think it's even close any more.

This. 2 biggest things for centers in this day and age is defense, and the ability to run the floor.

Dwight's post defense is unmatched still in the NBA. Plus he's an amazing rim protector, and he can switch onto the perimeter, and still play solid defense (I mean he's not gonna 1v1 Kobe, but for a center he's very good). Then he runs the floor just as good if not better than any other big man in the league (Talking Centers).

Put on top of that he's playing as good as he's ever been.... Besides maybe one or 2 of his best Orlando years.

flea
04-17-2014, 01:17 PM
This. 2 biggest things for centers in this day and age is defense, and the ability to run the floor.


Considering Duncan is still the best big man and the only guy that gives him an argument is one of the least athletic players in the league, I'm not sure age matters much for centers. For guards and wings? Age is very important.

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 01:26 PM
Considering Duncan is still the best big man and the only guy that gives him an argument is one of the least athletic players in the league, I'm not sure age matters much for centers. For guards and wings? Age is very important.

Duncan isn't a center, and he actually does run the floor pretty well.

I think you misread my post. I said "in this day and age". I'm not saying age is an important factor.

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 01:28 PM
I'm taking Noah. Most skilled big man. Great defense, hustle, energetic, and the best teammate you can have at the C. Does everything so well it's undeniable. I would have taken Dwight but he hasn't developed worth crap over the years.

Meh Noah is all about intensity and effort. He's honestly probably the least skilled out of all of them.

Shammyguy3
04-17-2014, 03:20 PM
Duncan isn't a center, and he actually does run the floor pretty well.

I think you misread my post. I said "in this day and age". I'm not saying age is an important factor.

According to bballreference, Duncan's played 69% of his minutes at center and only 31 at PF. Most people disagree with you.


Meh Noah is all about intensity and effort. He's honestly probably the least skilled out of all of them.

How many games do you watch Noah play exactly? Least skilled, that's possible but only if you don't consider defense (both interior and perimeter) a "skill" (which is seemingly a popular position, which is sad)

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 03:50 PM
According to bballreference, Duncan's played 69% of his minutes at center and only 31 at PF. Most people disagree with you.



How many games do you watch Noah play exactly? Least skilled, that's possible but only if you don't consider defense (both interior and perimeter) a "skill" (which is seemingly a popular position, which is sad)

It's all how you define skill. I think that the way people in basketball define "skill" he is the least skilled out of the 4.

Skill is really anything. It's a term that for whatever reason basketball decided to have its own definition for. Honestly skill is just how good you are. Nothing more, but for some reason fans consider good defense not a skill yet ball handling a skill.

Don't ask me how it makes any sense... I have no idea.

Duncan is listed as a Center, but I think most people consider him a 4 especially all time. I don't mind considering him one, but Duncan himself, and his entire fan base don't really. Offensively he definitely plays more of a PF position though.

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 03:53 PM
Also I've seen plenty of Noah. I've actually been talking about Noah as a top 5 center in this league for awhile. Everyone said I was a dummy last year, but now it's okay apparently :shrug:.

People in this forum don't stay true to any of their opinions. I was the big "Roy Hibbert is overrated" guy last year, and now everyone is on that train all of a sudden... People on this forum don't make an opinion or observation till the stats till them, and they feel safe to do so.

FOBolous
04-17-2014, 03:57 PM
Bogut gets no respect

Why am I not surprised that one of the biggest homer on PSD brought a player on his favorite team him into a conversation he has no place in?

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 03:59 PM
Why am I not surprised that one of the biggest homer on PSD brought a player on his favorite team him into a conversation he has no place in?

Honestly that's all he does. He's the troll that PSD for whatever reason doesn't ban.

Shammyguy3
04-17-2014, 04:00 PM
Duncan isn't a center, and he actually does run the floor pretty well.

I think you misread my post. I said "in this day and age". I'm not saying age is an important factor.


It's all how you define skill. I think that the way people in basketball define "skill" he is the least skilled out of the 4.

Skill is really anything. It's a term that for whatever reason basketball decided to have its own definition for. Honestly skill is just how good you are. Nothing more, but for some reason fans consider good defense not a skill yet ball handling a skill.

Don't ask me how it makes any sense... I have no idea.

Duncan is listed as a Center, but I think most people consider him a 4 especially all time. I don't mind considering him one, but Duncan himself, and his entire fan base don't really. Offensively he definitely plays more of a PF position though.

fair enough, but i think everybody on here (including Popovich himself) would say that Duncan's a center first, forward second. People love putting Duncan as a PF to say he's "the best ever!" at his position. If you put him at center, all of a sudden he's contesting with Wilt, Russel, Hakeem, Kareem, and Shaq as opposed to the power forward list of Dirk, Garnett, Malone, Barkley

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 04:00 PM
He use to come into the Seahawks forum and brag all the time, and just say the dumbest **** ever. He wouldn't get banned for that either. I think he's blowing a MOD.

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 04:03 PM
fair enough, but i think everybody on here (including Popovich himself) would say that Duncan's a center first, forward second. People love putting Duncan as a PF to say he's "the best ever!" at his position. If you put him at center, all of a sudden he's contesting with Wilt, Russel, Hakeem, Kareem, and Shaq as opposed to the power forward list of Dirk, Garnett, Malone, Barkley

Yeah I get what you're saying. I've heard this before. It definitely makes sense.

flea
04-17-2014, 04:35 PM
According to bballreference, Duncan's played 69% of his minutes at center and only 31 at PF. Most people disagree with you.

That's because their center lost a lot of games this season, and putting a 6'8 Boris Diaw on 7 footers just makes no sense. The Spurs really only use one bench big and it's because of their star PF's versatility and effectiveness. Duncan is a PF - that is the position he has played when everyone has been healthy in his career and that's the position that his game reflects. Just because he's so good defensively that you'd be a moron not to put him on the opposing team's best big man doesn't mean he's a center.

Shammyguy3
04-17-2014, 05:06 PM
That's because their center lost a lot of games this season, and putting a 6'8 Boris Diaw on 7 footers just makes no sense. The Spurs really only use one bench big and it's because of their star PF's versatility and effectiveness. Duncan is a PF - that is the position he has played when everyone has been healthy in his career and that's the position that his game reflects. Just because he's so good defensively that you'd be a moron not to put him on the opposing team's best big man doesn't mean he's a center.

Those are his career percentages dude. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

slashsnake
04-17-2014, 05:49 PM
That's because their center lost a lot of games this season, and putting a 6'8 Boris Diaw on 7 footers just makes no sense. The Spurs really only use one bench big and it's because of their star PF's versatility and effectiveness. Duncan is a PF - that is the position he has played when everyone has been healthy in his career and that's the position that his game reflects. Just because he's so good defensively that you'd be a moron not to put him on the opposing team's best big man doesn't mean he's a center.

That 69% is for his career. Its been 100% for a while now.

It wasn't just this past season. He plays the opponents center, not their best big man every game. Lebron at PF, Bosh at C, he played Bosh. He played Gasol not Randolph. He played Dwight not Pau. Thiago and Diaw played PF last year not Duncan. THe year before it was DeJuan Blair and Matt Bonner as the other post guys while he was out there. He was the center. When he was out there with Horry, McDyess, Oberto, he was guarding the center and playing the center position.

xRODMANx
04-17-2014, 06:38 PM
Boy I've heard some homer *** statements before but god damn dude. This is one of the best.

Its not far fetch at all... Not sure how many kings games you watch, but Cousins is one of the most dominant rebounders in the game. He averages over 11 per game, which I believe is 5th best in the league.

And to the people who say Cousins is a poor defender clearly don't know what they're talking about. That might have been the case his first couple years in the league, but he's taken tremendous strides this year. Not saying he's an elite defender, but he's far from a poor defender.

flea
04-17-2014, 08:20 PM
That 69% is for his career. Its been 100% for a while now.

It wasn't just this past season. He plays the opponents center, not their best big man every game. Lebron at PF, Bosh at C, he played Bosh. He played Gasol not Randolph. He played Dwight not Pau. Thiago and Diaw played PF last year not Duncan. THe year before it was DeJuan Blair and Matt Bonner as the other post guys while he was out there. He was the center. When he was out there with Horry, McDyess, Oberto, he was guarding the center and playing the center position.

The game has gotten smaller, that's why he's gone to guarding more centers. He guarded Randolph a lot during the WCF last year, and basically took him out of the game. He plays a PF's game on offense and defends the best big man on defense. I don't know why this bothers you so much or is difficult to understand. It makes sense that as he's aged the young legs will chase the perimeter-oriented PFs around. KG has gone to playing the C position entirely now. As with any great, they don't really any of them play a set position - it just depends on where their team fits them in their scheme. In the Spurs scheme, Duncan plays PF except in smaller units.

Shammyguy3
04-17-2014, 08:55 PM
Your best defensive center typically guards the best offensive player on the other team. That's what Noah does all the time, and I'd bet it's what Duncan does as well. So the player he's defending doesn't mean much.

You can believe what you'd like, but Popovich says he's a center and has been for the past decade since Robinson retired. Not only that, but basketball reference claims the same. Furthemore, 82games.com has the following:

2012 - Duncan played 67% of possible minutes at center, and 0% at power forward http://www.82games.com/1112/11SAS21.HTM
2013 - Duncan played 52% of possible minutes at center, and 0% at power forward http://www.82games.com/1213/12SAS16.HTM
2013 - Duncan played 48% of possible minutes at center, and 22% at power forward http://www.82games.com/1314/13SAS16.HTM

i could go back farther, but you can check it yourself. Two sites say Duncan's a center, and so does his coach.

NBA_Starter
04-17-2014, 10:45 PM
This is a Great debate.

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 10:46 PM
Its not far fetch at all... Not sure how many kings games you watch, but Cousins is one of the most dominant rebounders in the game. He averages over 11 per game, which I believe is 5th best in the league.

And to the people who say Cousins is a poor defender clearly don't know what they're talking about. That might have been the case his first couple years in the league, but he's taken tremendous strides this year. Not saying he's an elite defender, but he's far from a poor defender.

DeMarcus Cousins is a garbage bin for stats. Just like all the rave about Bosh's PER and rebounding. Then he went to an actual good team. Now look at dem stats.

ztilzer31
04-17-2014, 10:47 PM
So DeMarcus Cousins is a great rebounder, and a great defender, and the most skilled... Yet his team is getting a lottery pick this year? Lol. Okay.

flea
04-18-2014, 10:36 PM
Your best defensive center typically guards the best offensive player on the other team. That's what Noah does all the time, and I'd bet it's what Duncan does as well. So the player he's defending doesn't mean much.

You can believe what you'd like, but Popovich says he's a center and has been for the past decade since Robinson retired. Not only that, but basketball reference claims the same. Furthemore, 82games.com has the following:

2012 - Duncan played 67% of possible minutes at center, and 0% at power forward http://www.82games.com/1112/11SAS21.HTM
2013 - Duncan played 52% of possible minutes at center, and 0% at power forward http://www.82games.com/1213/12SAS16.HTM
2013 - Duncan played 48% of possible minutes at center, and 22% at power forward http://www.82games.com/1314/13SAS16.HTM

i could go back farther, but you can check it yourself. Two sites say Duncan's a center, and so does his coach.

Well it doesn't matter to me or my rankings. Just like I don't care whether you rank Lebron with the SFs, PFs, or PGs. I'm just curious, but when or why did Pop say he's exclusively a center? It doesn't matter to me, or what the websites say.

Nesterovic, Splitter, and Robinson were all centers on offense. Duncan plays from the elbow a lot, like a PF, with a center to do the hard screens and stay active under the basket. Who he guards, which is presumably what those sites measure, doesn't matter to positions for me - especially when we're talking about a top 10 alltime defender whose talent you want to maximize on d.

NBA_Starter
04-18-2014, 10:42 PM
So DeMarcus Cousins is a great rebounder, and a great defender, and the most skilled... Yet his team is getting a lottery pick this year? Lol. Okay.

Funny how that works!

Shammyguy3
04-18-2014, 10:46 PM
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/04/30/how-important-is-tim-duncans-legacy-and-is-he-really-a-center/


When asked who the starting center would be in Game 1 against the Jazz, Pop treated it as a silly question and said: “Tim Duncan, like we have for the past 15 years.”

April 30, 2012 at 12:09 PM

flea
04-18-2014, 10:48 PM
Lol that was just Pop being Pop to get a reporter to go away. But if you want to take it as Bible gospel then okay.

CousinsEvansDUO
04-18-2014, 10:54 PM
To all the people who want noah over cousins, lol okay have fun with your no offense, tall pg stuck in a bigmans body. cousins is the only true BIG MAN who is unstoppable out of all of those 4. noah plays defense, but his offense ANYONE can stop. I never see cousins get shut down except for refs. Dominance and power is more important than assists and defense. get a pg for assists, get better defensive role players for defense. cousins is powerful and offensive, and dominant so he is way better than noah and that's the bottom line.

CousinsEvansDUO
04-18-2014, 11:08 PM
You brought up "Noah's outperforming his career numbers, so i'm gonna dock him for that." In which case, I brought up Cousins' career efficiency rates. Cousins' is definitely skewed because of his first two years of play, but that further reinstates my position that your argument is highly flawed: career numbers mean nothing in this debate, for a number of reasons.

Noah is the definition of consistency. This season is arguably his best season yet. I didn't bring up previous seasons to show how good he currently is, not at all. That's an incorrect deduction on your part. I brought up Noah's career numbers to show you that your argument was still wrong: he's not outproducing his "normal self" (even if it mattered, which it still doesn't, but if it did, it wouldn't matter because Noah's season this year isn't some outlier).


I don't care to argue Noah's peak, future production or anything right now. I'm arguing why your reasoning for putting Noah last (which you could justifiably do so I guess depending on what you value most) is pigeon-holed at best.


LOL anyone taking a center as their #1 center who averages 12ppg is a joke. I can't take these noah fans seriously. compare noah to shaq, cousins, duncan, hajeem, kareem..all goat centers average at least 20ppg..noah is ZERO OFFENSE

Shammyguy3
04-18-2014, 11:17 PM
LOL anyone taking a center as their #1 center who averages 12ppg is a joke. I can't take these noah fans seriously. compare noah to shaq, cousins, duncan, hajeem, kareem..all goat centers average at least 20ppg..noah is ZERO OFFENSE

Putting Cousins in the same sentence as the 4 greatest centers ever is hilarious :laugh:
Noah's not zero offense either, you're misguided if you believe so.