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View Full Version : Joe Dumars out as Pistons president.



smith&wesson
04-14-2014, 04:59 PM
So Joe Dumars was finally let go I guess ... is this a good thing for the pistons ? bad ??

I personally think this move was long over due and its about time Detroit parted ways with him.

http://prosportsdaily.com/articles/joe-dumars-out-as-pistons-president-300455.html

Algmuskrats
04-14-2014, 05:08 PM
The whole organization needs to do something different. New owner, new GM, and a new coach (One that can actually stay around). Next step is moving the Pistons into Detroit.

JWO35
04-14-2014, 05:26 PM
Its like Christmas in Auburn Hills
(for the people who think the Pistons play in Detroit, Auburn Hills is where the Pistons play which is about 30mins away from Detroit,MI)!

MonroeFAN
04-14-2014, 05:34 PM
Next step is moving the Pistons into Detroit.

No thanks.

Goodbye Joe, thanks for the good years.

mark1125
04-14-2014, 07:40 PM
Dumars had a nice run for while but the game passed him b and he did not adapt. Great player, good GM for awhile, horrible last 5 years.

Hawkeye15
04-14-2014, 07:43 PM
he had his day, for sure. Very good GM for the earlier part of his front office career. Just got caught up in the evolution of running a FO, and fell behind.

The 2003 draft will always stick out to me. He really could have put together a possible dominant title run(s) for a 3-4 year window. But, alas, he picked the "manta from heaven", Darko suckicec.

ManRam
04-14-2014, 07:48 PM
Yeah, I feel like he'll be remembered more for the bad than the good...but there was definitely a lot of good.

GiantsSwaGG
04-14-2014, 08:19 PM
he had his day, for sure. Very good GM for the earlier part of his front office career. Just got caught up in the evolution of running a FO, and fell behind.

The 2003 draft will always stick out to me. He really could have put together a possible dominant title run(s) for a 3-4 year window. But, alas, he picked the "manta from heaven", Darko suckicec.

But why did he draft Darko when he had Ben Wallace?

Hawkeye15
04-14-2014, 08:45 PM
But why did he draft Darko when he had Ben Wallace?

Idk. I mean, every GM at the time was in love with Darko, he just simply took the ONE pick out of the top 5 that sucked. If he takes either Melo, Wade, or Bosh, they probably win another ring or two.

mightybosstone
04-15-2014, 12:39 AM
It's unfortunate that it was a year late. The Jennings and Smoove contracts have pretty much crippled that team for the foreseeable future. They're not even good enough right now to be mediocre.

KnicksorBust
04-15-2014, 12:46 AM
Makes sense. Gordon-Villanueva-Jennings-Josh Smith. You want to give him credit for being the GM to gamble on Drummond and nailing that pick but his FA signings have really set this team back.

JasonJohnHorn
04-15-2014, 06:36 PM
The JSmoove more was a good signing. It just didn't work out because Jennings makes players worse (look at Ellis).

JSmoover is still an interesting piece to have and I think he can help with the right coach.

I think Dumars was pressured into the Jennings trade and I think Jennings did a good job of selling himself and saying all the right things about changing his game. But his contract is not crazy. There are three years on it and 7, 8 and 8 mil. A little steep, obviously, but it is one of those contracts that can be used to match salaries.

Josh Smith can still be traded. Teams would want him. The right team could really get pushed over the edge with Smith.

If Dumars had been left to his own devices, rather than being pressured to get into the playoffs NOW, or forced to let players go because the owner didn't want to go over the cap, then that team would be better.

The Charlie-V and Ben Gordon year, the ownership wanted him to sign two guys and get back into the playoffs straight away. Those were the only two guys left on the market. He was pressured to sign guys that year.

This past year, it was "Your job is on the line", so he had to swing for the fences. With the right point guard, Smith would have worked out. I think the Jennings trade was done in part to get a contract to make a deal for Rondo that just never happened.


If Davidson had let him keep Okur and reward Wallace for what he had done, then Detroit would have won back2back rings and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If Davidson had not put pressure on Dumars to get back into the playoffs and sign Charlie V and Gordon, then the Pistons would have carried that cap space over a year. Likewise, if the new ownership had forced his hand, then he wouldn't have been swinging for the fences.

mightybosstone
04-15-2014, 07:06 PM
I don't buy for a second that Josh Smith was a good contract. He's essentially making like $13.5 million a year. over four years. That's awful for a guy who has no concept whatsoever of "shot selection." As for Jennings making him worse, I don't buy that either. Josh Smith makes Josh Smith worse. The dude shoots 26% from beyond the arc, yet more than 21% of his shot attempts this year were 3-pointers. In fact, Smoove shoots 70% or higher from within 3 feet, but shoots worse than 36% from everywhere else on the floor. Despite that, fewer than 25% of his shots this season have come within 3 feet.

Smoove is just an offensive cancer to any team he plays on, and he's making more or as much money right now as top 10 guys in the league. It's an absolute abortion of a contract that no sane NBA general manager would take on in their right mind.

JasonJohnHorn
04-15-2014, 07:14 PM
I don't buy for a second that Josh Smith was a good contract. He's essentially making like $13.5 million a year. over four years. That's awful for a guy who has no concept whatsoever of "shot selection." As for Jennings making him worse, I don't buy that either. Josh Smith makes Josh Smith worse. The dude shoots 26% from beyond the arc, yet more than 21% of his shot attempts this year were 3-pointers. In fact, Smoove shoots 70% or higher from within 3 feet, but shoots worse than 36% from everywhere else on the floor. Despite that, fewer than 25% of his shots this season have come within 3 feet.

Smoove is just an offensive cancer to any team he plays on, and he's making more or as much money right now as top 10 guys in the league. It's an absolute abortion of a contract that no sane NBA general manager would take on in their right mind.

I would have prefered signing Deng for that much, don't get me wrong. But Smith's FG% dropped WAY more than could have fairly been expected. He can rebound and defend, and pass decent for his position. You bring in the right coach and point guard, and Smith is going to give a positive contribution.


There needs to be a coach who reels in his shooting, because the other stuff he does on the court is huge.


But yeah... I agree with you, but also, I don't blame Dumars for the signing and I think Smith can still be a key player on a contender. Dumars was expected to bring in a free agent to get this team back into the playoffs, and their draft pick wasn't going to do that. Smith was the best available player, and his drop in FG% couldn't have been foreseen.

I blame the Jennings/Smith shot overload on Cheeks. If he had started Stuckey and brought Jennings in off the bench, and ran the offense with Monroe as the focus and Single as the primary shooter... this team would have been much better.

Crackadalic
04-15-2014, 07:19 PM
Detroit is a mess for a while even after dumars is gone

I wouldn't be surprise if he found himself running a FO again next season

Shammyguy3
04-15-2014, 07:28 PM
I would have prefered signing Deng for that much, don't get me wrong. But Smith's FG% dropped WAY more than could have fairly been expected. He can rebound and defend, and pass decent for his position. You bring in the right coach and point guard, and Smith is going to give a positive contribution.

you're right, nobody could have predicted that Smith would've gotten even DUMBER offensively:
highest 3 point attempt rate even though he's shooting 26%
lowest rate of attempts at the rim for his career even though he's shooting a 2nd career best
lowest free throw rate of his career (for the reasons stated above)

the guy is an awful basketball player. Talented sure, but he's an idiot.

COOLbeans
04-15-2014, 07:47 PM
The JSmoove more was a good signing. It just didn't work out because Jennings makes players worse (look at Ellis).

JSmoover is still an interesting piece to have and I think he can help with the right coach.

I think Dumars was pressured into the Jennings trade and I think Jennings did a good job of selling himself and saying all the right things about changing his game. But his contract is not crazy. There are three years on it and 7, 8 and 8 mil. A little steep, obviously, but it is one of those contracts that can be used to match salaries.

Josh Smith can still be traded. Teams would want him. The right team could really get pushed over the edge with Smith.

If Dumars had been left to his own devices, rather than being pressured to get into the playoffs NOW, or forced to let players go because the owner didn't want to go over the cap, then that team would be better.

The Charlie-V and Ben Gordon year, the ownership wanted him to sign two guys and get back into the playoffs straight away. Those were the only two guys left on the market. He was pressured to sign guys that year.

This past year, it was "Your job is on the line", so he had to swing for the fences. With the right point guard, Smith would have worked out. I think the Jennings trade was done in part to get a contract to make a deal for Rondo that just never happened.


If Davidson had let him keep Okur and reward Wallace for what he had done, then Detroit would have won back2back rings and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If Davidson had not put pressure on Dumars to get back into the playoffs and sign Charlie V and Gordon, then the Pistons would have carried that cap space over a year. Likewise, if the new ownership had forced his hand, then he wouldn't have been swinging for the fences.

I didn't know Joe was under that kind of pressure. It really explains why he made those moves. The Drummond pick was solid which probably had nothing to do with the owner. Davidson almost sounds as bad as the Warriors previous owner, Chris Cohan, who seemed bent on cursing his own franchise.

NBA_Starter
04-15-2014, 07:48 PM
Great, now they will get someone good and our pick will be worthless.

JEDean89
04-15-2014, 08:29 PM
this team is a pg and a sf away from being a really good team.

COOLbeans
04-15-2014, 08:48 PM
What happened to Jennings? He needs a great coach to teach him how to play.

JasonJohnHorn
04-15-2014, 08:50 PM
I didn't know Joe was under that kind of pressure. It really explains why he made those moves. The Drummond pick was solid which probably had nothing to do with the owner. Davidson almost sounds as bad as the Warriors previous owner, Chris Cohan, who seemed bent on cursing his own franchise.


Davidson was by and large a GREAT owner. He set a certain standard. He was the first owner to buy a private get for the team, so they weren't flying coach. When he first got the team, he over spent, but back then, spending 30 million was over spending.

When the salary cap got up to 50 mil, Davidson didn't want to go over it because the team simply didn't make that much money. When Okur was a free agent, Dumars wanted to keep him, and had he, it would have given them some real depth in te front court, but Davidson told Dumars to let him walk because they would have to pay even more for Wallace the following season and Davidson didn't want to have 25 mill a year wrapped up at the C position alone and knew they'd go over the cap.


Then th next year, Chi-town offered Wallace that big contract and Davidson said no. for me, that was an insult, because they had been underpaying Wallace for years, so over paying a guy that won you a championship? Even if he is declining, her earned that money already.


They STILL got to the conference finals with Nazr, but could you imagine if they'd had Ben and Okur in 05 and 06?


The Iverson deal went south, they cleared cap space. Davidson didn't want a rebuilding process. Dumars targetting Odom that summer, but LAL retained him, and the best scorer left on the market was Gordon, and CharlieV was the 'best' forward left on the market.... so because Davidson wanted to throw money out and pick up some free agents, he wanted Dumars to spend it to stave off a rebuilding process. You have to remember that year, everybody was saying that Stuckey was like Wade 2.0 potentially, so they were assuming he'd develop.

Now Davidson was ok with spedning AS LONG AS THE WEREN'T OVER THE CAP. So the Our and Wallace signing would have put them over the cap. The CharlieV and Gordon signing came when they had cap space.


The last offseason, the new owner went into JoeD's final year without negotiating the contract and was pretty much expecting him to get the team back into the playoffs. So Joe D signed Smith... which again... they guy can defend and rebound. If he was shooting as well as he had the season before, Detroit would have won about 10 more games this year easy. They had so many losses where it was 5 points or less, and it Smith had shot 40% instead of 30%, the team would have won.

The Jennings trade was AWFUL. The rumours came around Dumars said publicly that they were NOT working on a deal for Jennings. Then the rumours continued and people were saying that Jennings would be a good trade piece to offer Boston for Rondo if they needed a scorer, and then Dumars and Jennings had a meeting, and the sign-and-trade went through. Jennings said he was going to alter his game and only shot as much as he did with the Bucks because he had to.... this was just like the MArbury speehc when he arrived in NY. Then... no change.



The thing that sank the Pistons this years is the fact the COACH had Jennings and Smith taking more shots than ANYBODY else on the team even though they were the two WORST shooters. THAT was the problem.


If you have this same roster with Doc Rivers coaching, or Thibs, Stuckey is starting, and the offense is being run through Mornoe, who is a better passer than Jennigns to be frank. Monroe got a couple of triple-doubles last year and proved he was a strong passing big man,but Cheeks didn't give him the ball to make plays, or to even shoot.


This roster SHOULD have been in the playoffs. The coaching was the problem. There is no reason Jennings or Smith should be 1 and 2 for FGA every night. EVERY night. THAT was the problem.


Cheeks was a bad pick for coach, but Dumars was hoping a classic pass-first point guard would help mould a good passing team and change Jennings. It didn't. And for the record, Phil Jackson brought Cheeks in.

DetroitBadBoy
04-15-2014, 08:56 PM
JasonJohnHorn nails it in this thread.

Dumars hasn't been able to do his job 100% his way the past 5-6 years. Ownership greatly assisted in ruining his reputation after Bill Davidson died. He had no stable base to build on with Karen Davidson trying to sell the team. Then, Tom Gores buys, comes in and demands instant greatness. Not going to totally defend him but that's the truth.

Josh Smith is a good all-around player WITH a good and respectable coach guiding him. As for Jennings, he needs a lot of work and I'm not willing to wait.

COOLbeans
04-15-2014, 09:04 PM
Sounds like after letting Okur walk and the Wallace contract fail, Davidson was always one step behind and he drug Joe Dumars down with him.

Tieing that money up with two players like Okur and Wallace at the time wouldn't have been a bad idea.

JasonJohnHorn
04-15-2014, 09:28 PM
JasonJohnHorn nails it in this thread.

Dumars hasn't been able to do his job 100% his way the past 5-6 years. Ownership greatly assisted in ruining his reputation after Bill Davidson died. He had no stable base to build on with Karen Davidson trying to sell the team. Then, Tom Gores buys, comes in and demands instant greatness. Not going to totally defend him but that's the truth.

Josh Smith is a good all-around player WITH a good and respectable coach guiding him. As for Jennings, he needs a lot of work and I'm not willing to wait.

Jennings is awful.... if I was Cheeks I the second game he shot more than 20 shots I would have benched him for a month.

Why are Smith and Jennings taking all the shots! WTF!?!?!? lol