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Chronz
04-10-2014, 08:53 PM
When dissecting a players legacy, you take the good with the ugly. This thread is devoted to the ugly, what are the darkest of turd stains in otherwise illustrious careers?


Bron and Kobe are obvious targets but I challenge you guys to name other players, what was the most crippling loss for say Paul Pierce, Duncan, Shaq, KG, Hakeem, if any such loss really exists. Feel free to bring up any example of a superstar falling woefully short of his own expectations, trying to see who got locked up or choked the hardest.

Cal827
04-10-2014, 08:59 PM
Duncan- Last year, he missed that lay in in Game 7

Pierce- That year before they got KG/Allen, where it looked like the team was going to crumble, and he wanted out.

Shaq- The Kobe/Shaq issues. That team could have won titles well into the 2000s if those two were able to tolerate each other.

NoahH
04-10-2014, 09:29 PM
Vince Carter when he gave up on the Raptors and threw in the towel

Kiki Vandeweghe when he refused to play for Dallas

Steve Francis when 'God's will' didnt allow him to play in Vancouver and the distance to his hometown of Maryland (when Houston really isnt THAT much closer)

houstonfan
04-10-2014, 09:51 PM
Michael Jordan playing baseball?

kobe4thewinbang
04-10-2014, 09:54 PM
I will mention other players, but I'll start with Kobe.

Obviously, the loss to the Detroit Pistons. Prince bothered him, and there was crazy pressure on the Lakers that year with the star-studded lineup. But Kobe missed shot after shot. They should've at least won two games. Also game 7 against the Suns. He just gave up. I can't blame him much due to the crappy team, but it's rare for a guy like Kobe to just say "Screw it."

Alright...

LeBron James
The Cavaliers should've won at least a game against the Spurs.

Dirk Nowitzki
When the underdog Golden State Warriors upset the #1 seeded Dallas in the first round.

James Harden
Disappearing in the finals against the Miami Heat. The dude is crazy now, but where the hell was he?

Kaner
04-10-2014, 11:25 PM
Pippen- Game 3 of the conference finals Phil drew up a play to gave Toni Kukoc the game winning shot and Pippen pouted and refused to go in.

Isiah- Not being a member of the dream team and everyone hating him

Wade- getting swept by the Bulls the year after winning a title

Bosh- First season with Miami where he was the scapegoat and his heavy drop in production was least expected

Dirk- getting swept by Goldenstate as the #1 seed in the first round

Chronz
04-11-2014, 12:50 AM
Duncan- Last year, he missed that lay in in Game 7

Pierce- That year before they got KG/Allen, where it looked like the team was going to crumble, and he wanted out.

Shaq- The Kobe/Shaq issues. That team could have won titles well into the 2000s if those two were able to tolerate each other.

I guess that speaks to how high Duncan has set the standards, a game where he played great despite being well past his prime was considered his most crippling loss.

NBA_Starter
04-11-2014, 01:03 AM
T-Mac

5ass
04-11-2014, 01:09 AM
I guess that speaks to how high Duncan has set the standards, a game where he played great despite being well past his prime was considered his most crippling loss.

Someone correct me here if I'm wrong but didn't he get bounced out of the 1st round 2 years in a row?

sep11ie
04-11-2014, 01:25 AM
T-Mac.... See below

koreancabbage
04-11-2014, 01:50 AM
I will mention other players, but I'll start with Kobe.

Obviously, the loss to the Detroit Pistons. Prince bothered him, and there was crazy pressure on the Lakers that year with the star-studded lineup. But Kobe missed shot after shot. They should've at least won two games. Also game 7 against the Suns. He just gave up. I can't blame him much due to the crappy team, but it's rare for a guy like Kobe to just say "Screw it."

Alright...

LeBron James
The Cavaliers should've won at least a game against the Spurs.

Dirk Nowitzki
When the underdog Golden State Warriors upset the #1 seeded Dallas in the first round.

James Harden
Disappearing in the finals against the Miami Heat. The dude is crazy now, but where the hell was he?

that wasn't his low point of his career. The series against Dallas was worse in terms of his overall contribution to their result imo.

His Cleveland team had no business getting to the Finals in the first place.

Bruno
04-11-2014, 01:59 AM
is Jordans low point losing against the Magic in 1995? i think so man.

Supreme LA
04-11-2014, 04:50 AM
that wasn't his low point of his career. The series against Dallas was worse in terms of his overall contribution to their result imo.

His Cleveland team had no business getting to the Finals in the first place.

They actually had a decent squad that season. The East was also faltering with Detroit declining as well so they actually did belong in the Finals. They just met up a very experienced Spurs team.

D-Leethal
04-11-2014, 10:20 AM
How was Duncan went they lost to the 8 seed Grizz?

Dirk vs GSW is an obvious choice. Kobe vs Detroit. LeBron vs Dallas.

koreancabbage
04-11-2014, 12:24 PM
They actually had a decent squad that season. The East was also faltering with Detroit declining as well so they actually did belong in the Finals. They just met up a very experienced Spurs team.

I don't think anyone expected Cleveland to get there however (that year). It was more sad seeing Lebron playing without the energy we usually see from him. You can give kudos to the Mavs defense or blame it on him being tired or him not focussed enough to get over the hump.

Cleveland was his first trip there so its kinda nerve racking. and the Spurs were still good back then (as well as today!)

Chronz
04-11-2014, 12:44 PM
How was Duncan went they lost to the 8 seed Grizz?
Semi injured and past his prime, even worse, before his rebirth. He and Tiago weren't the tagt team force they are now.


Dirk vs GSW is an obvious choice. Kobe vs Detroit. LeBron vs Dallas.
Dirk's series vs GS is a popular one, it has its merits but at the same time, that was a nightmare of a matchup for his squad. I disagree with Kobe's, that was the most stifling defense of any era IMO, and while Kobe had his warts, I dont think the Lakers really had a chance. Still tho, with his career, its hard to spot any glaring blemish. 04 sounds as good as any I suppose.

What about lesser stars like Tmac, Vince, Melo, C-Webb etc...

SeoulBeatz
04-11-2014, 12:54 PM
When dissecting a players legacy, you take the good with the ugly. This thread is devoted to the ugly, what are the darkest of turd stains in otherwise illustrious careers?


Bron and Kobe are obvious targets but I challenge you guys to name other players, what was the most crippling loss for say Paul Pierce, Duncan, Shaq, KG, Hakeem, if any such loss really exists. Feel free to bring up any example of a superstar falling woefully short of his own expectations, trying to see who got locked up or choked the hardest.

I remember Celtic fans booing Pierce the season before KG and Allen came to the rescue.

Quinnsanity
04-11-2014, 01:59 PM
Magic Johnson got his coach fired. One of the most forgotten details in league history.

D-Leethal
04-11-2014, 02:08 PM
I remember Celtic fans booing Pierce the season before KG and Allen came to the rescue.

Me too, I also remember them wearing bags on their heads to games and trying to chase Doc Rivers out of town.

Amazing what HOF teammates can do for a player and coaches historical rep, isn't it? Funny because now everyone acts like Paul Pierce had his current rep all along.

Hawkeye15
04-11-2014, 03:20 PM
Semi injured and past his prime, even worse, before his rebirth. He and Tiago weren't the tagt team force they are now.


Dirk's series vs GS is a popular one, it has its merits but at the same time, that was a nightmare of a matchup for his squad. I disagree with Kobe's, that was the most stifling defense of any era IMO, and while Kobe had his warts, I dont think the Lakers really had a chance. Still tho, with his career, its hard to spot any glaring blemish. 04 sounds as good as any I suppose.

What about lesser stars like Tmac, Vince, Melo, C-Webb etc...

you should already know Melo's. First time he had HCA, was a #3 seed, and the Clippers kicked their butts and he played absolutely terrible the whole series.

Chronz
04-11-2014, 03:31 PM
Crazy just how differently Pierce might have been remembered, if not for KG. Same holds true for KG to a lesser extent. Before that he had that memorable run with Walker but then 2 years of being eliminated by the Pacers.

Which brings up an interesting question, which is the worst defeat for Pierce. In 04 his lowly Celtics were destroyed by the 60 win juggernaut and they completely locked him down.

Pierce averaged 6.3 T.O. and shot 34%. Adding up to a ghastly O.RTG of 80.





Then in 05, his Celtics had HCA but lost in 7 games, he had a few major brain farts that series but overall, Id argue he had played about as well as he could have individually. It was certainly one of his most productive series.


Whats more crippling, performing badly in the most dire of situations and expectably losing to a far superior opponent OR playing great individually, but losing a series that was prolly in your favor (albeit 55/45)

Chronz
04-11-2014, 03:38 PM
you should already know Melo's. First time he had HCA, was a #3 seed, and the Clippers kicked their butts and he played absolutely terrible the whole series.

That 3 seed was due to a technicality, Clips actually held home court advantage. Melo was clamped down badly, I often chided Melo for how simplistically he was taken out of the game but in fairness, the team had lost its only reliable outside shooting threat in Voshon Leonard, that and Melo was still a pup. All that said, you're still right, he performed miserably and the Clippers weren't that imposing for this not to be his biggest blemish. But with Melo, I feel like he has a good many to choose from.

kingsdelez24
04-12-2014, 11:57 AM
Kobe when the lakers got swept by the mavs... he looked terrible out there

Matter.
04-12-2014, 12:05 PM
Kobe when the lakers got swept by the mavs... he looked terrible out there

Wasn't it the whole Lakers team ? Like they looked exhausted especially kobe and pau

Tony_Starks
04-12-2014, 03:03 PM
Pierce losing to the Lakers is pretty high on my list. The year before when they won he pompously declared himself the best player in the league. Then they come back and blow a 3-2 lead, he's clearly outplayed by Kobe, and completely frustrated by a over the hill Ron Artest....

Shaq letting Ben Wallace run circles around him in 04 was pretty bad too.

Riodagoat
04-12-2014, 04:08 PM
Kobe- Bad blood between him and Shaq. I can't remember specific details but I remember that one game that he refused to shoot to ball to prove that the Lakers can't win without him. Also the Detroit series.

Lebron- Finals vs the Mavs. Not even close.

Dirk- eliminated by the Warriors during the 1st round. Everybody thought they were going to go all the way that year.

Duncan- He doesn't have many but one that stands out is the 1st round vs Grizz

Goose17
04-12-2014, 04:19 PM
How about just ugly games?

Wasn't it game 4 against Orlando where Kobe showed off how greedy he truly is, shooting like 30% while netting 30 points? Or that series against the Pistons he shot like 38% for the series and totaled 18 turnovers with 20 assists or something crazy like that.

Or Ray Allen in game 3 of the 2010 finals, 0 for 12 or whatever it was.

kingsdelez24
04-12-2014, 04:22 PM
Kobe when the lakers got swept by the mavs... he looked terrible out there

Wasn't it the whole Lakers team ? Like they looked exhausted especially kobe and pau

Kobe lookee as though he actually quit, which was a rarity at that point

ThuglifeJ
04-12-2014, 04:31 PM
Lebron vs Mavs. Embarrassing.

Chrisclover
04-13-2014, 03:30 AM
Michael Jordan playing baseball?

This. A complete joke.