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NoahH
04-05-2014, 07:23 PM
As most of you probably know, the NBA Draft consisted of 7 rounds up until 1988 when it was reduced to 3 rounds and then 2 rounds.

Personally, I think the NBA should increase the draft to 3 rounds. Each other professional sports league has way more than 2 rounds (NFL has 7 etc.).

There's just alot of talent and I think some players can fall through the cracks. Have additional rounds would also allow NBA teams to draft prospects and send them to the d league while retaining their draft rights.

Thoughts?

Lakers + Giants
04-05-2014, 07:28 PM
Nah, a lot of the 2nd rounders are out of the league within a few years anyway, imagine the 3rd rounders. .

Also, I feel as if late 2nd round picks are basically useless, sure there are a few players that turn out to be all stars, but it's rare. There's no point in making a late 2nd round pick seem more valuable than it is. A 3rd round pick would do just that. No thanks.

abe_froman
04-05-2014, 07:28 PM
not really,there havent been many players worth a look after falling through the draft(some,yes;but most no),besides thats what summer league is there for.

the other sports are very different,the nfl,mlb,nhl all many more player per team ,thus a need for bigger drafts(and the mlb,nhl have farm systems as the hit/miss rate is a lot higher(being much more skill based sports)..thus again,the need for a larger talent pool/draft)


hell,there really isnt enough talent to support two rounds

ManRam
04-05-2014, 07:30 PM
Not at all. The talent pool consistently thins out a ton on the second round. Undrafted guys often get decent shots via Summer League and the D-League too.

You see teams sell off late second rounders for essentially nothing too. That says a lot about their value.

Sadds The Gr8
04-05-2014, 07:33 PM
no point. more than half the draft class don't make the league already...

GunFactor187
04-05-2014, 07:33 PM
I would love to see 3 rounds in the draft, but in today's NBA landscape that wouldn't be possible unless if every team had their own D-League affiliate to develop those prospects.

slashsnake
04-05-2014, 07:34 PM
Well the NBA still has lots of tryouts and a D league to keep players out of the cracks. There are lots of undrafted NFL players who go on to be great stars... Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, Brian Waters, Priest Holmes, Antonio Gates, Tony Romo, Adam Vinatieri... to name a few recently... Half those guys may be in the HOF 15 years from now.

I wonder how many undrafted NBA players make an impact in the league.

Boykins, Birdman, Haslem, Barea, Darrell Armstrong, Lin, Calderon, Avery Johnson, Bruce Bowen, Brad Miller, John Starks... That's kind of the who's who of NBA undrafted players. Role players who played D and hustled for the most part.

I think Ben Wallace might be the only HOF worthy or even all star worthy NBA undrafted player that I can think of.

25 years it has been two rounds... 700 players that could have been drafted in round 3 and Starks and Brad Miller might be two of the three best ones? I think cutting it off at two is just fine.

Jamiecballer
04-05-2014, 07:42 PM
I'd love to see the draft upped to 5 rounds or so if the league fleshed out a full minor league system. In combination with a new system where players can be drafted at any time, make a decent wage in the minors but cannot play in the NBA until the age of 21.

Cal827
04-05-2014, 09:16 PM
I'd love to see the draft upped to 5 rounds or so if the league fleshed out a full minor league system. In combination with a new system where players can be drafted at any time, make a decent wage in the minors but cannot play in the NBA until the age of 21.

101X This.

lamzoka
04-05-2014, 09:35 PM
Hell no, 70% of players drafted in the second will be out the league in 2 years.

king4day
04-05-2014, 10:40 PM
I voted no but thought more about it and think yes. For the reasons the OP listed.
We do see a lot where guys in the D-league turn into something. Very rare but it happens.

torocan
04-05-2014, 11:10 PM
I don't see a problem with it.

More drafted players means less players falling through the cracks. It also means teams can take more chances on developing "works in progress" players instead of sending them off to Europe or having potentially good players end up working on car lots or behind insurance desks. It allows teams to try out players with more unconventional skill sets instead of boiling it down to hops and wing span.

With the advancements in the D-league and some focused NBA attention on more D-league single team affiliates, there's the potential for putting a structure in place to physically train these players, develop their skill sets and get them acclimatized instead of so many players wasting a year playing 5 mins per game for an entire season and twiddling their thumbs.

Yes, most of them won't pan out, but for the handful that DO pan out and the additional depth it offers rosters to hedge against injury, I don't see how this is a bad thing.

Since when has a good farm system ever Hurt a professional sports league?

I'd be perfectly fine with 3 rounds of draft picks. Heck, I'd be okay with 4 or 5. I'd be fine with dressing 15 players too (3 deep for every position). I'll always be fine with giving another kid a chance to show that they can grow into a NBA caliber player as long as it's not too often in games that count.

At a minimum, I think you'd see an increase in skill set towards the end of the bench. More competition for that 13-15th man spot combined with better developed D-league training and player development can help mitigate the painful experience of watching one and done players without the slightest clue on a court that should be reserved for Men vs scrawny and undersized Boys.

Jeffy25
04-05-2014, 11:19 PM
Being a baseball fan, where they have double digit rounds, and you see guys develop from the 41st round (Kevin Siegrist) into big leaguers, or the 62nd around and become hall of famers (Mike Piazza). I like the development systems in baseball.

Why shouldn't NBA teams try and have a development system to help develop role players or to help season guys? Some players have upside, that you can try and train and develop over a couple of seasons in the D-league.

I think 4 or so rounds, let some of these good college players go to the D-league through the draft, and let a team try and develop someone who maybe has one good skill, to be more of a complete player, or a mediocre player into maybe someone with a strong particular skill set?


The development in baseball has really changed the game for the better. Not certain, but I feel a similar investment in basketball would be wise.


It's frustrating to see what would appear to be a top prospect forced to a bench role for years. Who should be getting playing time in order to improve, but because their team is competitive, they get 4-8 minutes a game and aren't really improving like they could.

mike_noodles
04-05-2014, 11:19 PM
I think they should add more rounds and make more use of the d-league and full system development. More similar to how the NHL does it.

Sactown
04-05-2014, 11:32 PM
Only the Spurs would benefit haha half the team's throw away their 2nd rounders, I bet most 3rd rounders would be blown on Euro players who are under contract in hopes that Europe develops them

torocan
04-06-2014, 12:18 AM
Only the Spurs would benefit haha half the team's throw away their 2nd rounders, I bet most 3rd rounders would be blown on Euro players who are under contract in hopes that Europe develops them

Teams with poor development systems throw away 2nd rounders because they don't have the foresight or the infrastructure to develop them properly. The teams that actually have well developed D-league affiliates like the Spurs, Rockets, GSW, OKC and Dallas are using the D-league system very effectively to develop their 1st and 2nd round players, and even to rehab returning players.

Unfortunately the NBA as a league is SO far behind the NHL and MLB in terms of creating a consistent league wide mechanism for developing young talent. Who knows how many solid rotation or even all star caliber players have slipped through the cracks over the years?

Danny Green, Chris Anderson, Jeremy Lin, Marcin Gortat, Jordan Farmar, CJ Watson, Chuck Hayes, and JJ Barea are just some of the names with which we are more familiar in terms of D-league players that were called up. How different would the NBA look without even the bare bones farm system that is in place now?

However, there is now an increasing numbers of teams that are using the D-league to develop, assess and train drafted and undrafted players as well as train and develop prospective assistant and head coaches.

As for the half of NBA that are behind the curve, sooner or later they'll have to get with the program or risk being left behind in the race to be competitive. And that can only be good for everyone.

JasonJohnHorn
04-06-2014, 02:36 PM
When half of the second round players don't make an NBA roster as is, I don't see the point in having a third round.

If a team has a strong scouting team, they can invite undrafted players to training camp or give them a spot in the D-League, and Europe is an option for them as well.

There really isn't a point to having a third round. There are 30 teams with 15 players each: that is 450 players and most guys play about 10 years. That means there are about 45 guys leaving every year (likely a little more than that) and another 45 guys coming in (which means most of the first round and about half of the second round coming in).

Now some guys drop out after two or three years, others stay for 18 or 19 years. But there isn't a high enough turnover in the league to warrant a third round.

blastmasta26
04-06-2014, 03:35 PM
I don't see what difference it would make. Any talent that falls through the draft is due to a player getting overlooked, not because there's an abundance of talent in the draft. The majority of second rounders don't amount to anything as it is, introducing a third round would likely be an exercise in futility. Some people have brought up D-League development, and while that is a good idea, the D-League system itself needs to improve first in order for this change to have any potential results.

slashsnake
04-06-2014, 03:48 PM
Teams with poor development systems throw away 2nd rounders because they don't have the foresight or the infrastructure to develop them properly. The teams that actually have well developed D-league affiliates like the Spurs, Rockets, GSW, OKC and Dallas are using the D-league system very effectively to develop their 1st and 2nd round players, and even to rehab returning players.

Danny Green, Chris Anderson, Jeremy Lin, Marcin Gortat, Jordan Farmar, CJ Watson, Chuck Hayes, and JJ Barea are just some of the names with which we are more familiar in terms of D-league players that were called up. How different would the NBA look without even the bare bones farm system that is in place now?

However, there is now an increasing numbers of teams that are using the D-league to develop, assess and train drafted and undrafted players as well as train and develop prospective assistant and head coaches.

As for the half of NBA that are behind the curve, sooner or later they'll have to get with the program or risk being left behind in the race to be competitive. And that can only be good for everyone.


Interesting point.. Here's one. Birdman dropped out of Blinn and didn't know he had to apply for the NBA draft so he was ineligble for that. He went 1st overall in the D league draft because of that (he was a worthy NBA pick) and played 2 games there to satisfy league rules before jumping to the NBA. Of the following 95 players drafted by the D league, I see a total of 3 NBA games played by them.

There is a draft beyond round 3. These guys go to the D league just like they would have if the NBA affiliate had their name on the draft pick. Just it is that much worse than round 2 that nobody even cares.

I think the NBA does a great job in finding talent. With the NBA, it is easier to see talent than at the NFL or NHL level. There isn't a need for more rounds because guys aren't slipping through the cracks.

And of the guys you listed.. I wouldn't call any of them D league success stories. 3 of them didn't even spend 100 minutes on a D league court. They were heading to the NBA, just the teams figured they would give them a quick transition rather than bring them straight up.

Anderson and his 42 minutes and 4 points a game...


Danny Green I would say looked much better after playing pro ball in Slovenia rather than with the spurs D league affiliate. It was his 66 games of international ball, not his 19 over two separate years in the D league that I would say developed him.

Gortat gets to be a D league success story because they put him there for 4 games when he just moved to the US and got put there to acclimate himself?

Jordan Farmar gets one for playing 3 games (he was called up to the NBA and played the same day he played his 3rd D league game)

Barea played 8 games.


So between the list you have there of D league success... I think the average is about 9-10 games played there, with Danny Green leading the way with 19 D league games. To me, a weekend to a month in the D league isn't that much time to improve (or the NBA is running the best minor league system in the world by far). They weren't being developed as players there but rather introduced either to the US or their teams and schemes for a few weeks there.

I think the problem still comes down to, with 2 rounds, the NBA gets the overwhelming majority of its role players and all it's stars. There just aren't that many players falling through those cracks.

slashsnake
04-06-2014, 04:11 PM
I guess the need for development also just isn't there like some other sports. You can tell most of the time in highschool. You look at the MR basketball winners in highschool and it is just flooded with NBA stars. It started with its first 4 winners Wilt, Oscar Robertson and Jerry Lucas (back to back), and hasn't stopped (Kidd, Webber, Ewing, Lebron (twice), Tmac, Sheed, etc.)

Now look at the NFL equivalent (gatoraide player of the year). Joe Mauer is the most recent star and he doesn't play the right sport anymore. Emmitt was the last NFL star. MLB has a lot of misses in its one too.

The NBA is just easier to tell. They don't have to change their game in huge ways from highschool to the NBA. We don't need to know if Durant can or can't gain 30 lbs of muscle and keep his ability. Outside of injuries or off court issues, you can usually pick the top NBA players when they are in highschool

IndyRealist
04-06-2014, 04:42 PM
Only if the D-League becomes a legitimate farm system. Given the brevity of NBA careers and the limited size of rosters, the only way NBA could sustain more than 2 rounds worth of players is if they are allowed to put players on the farm teams while not affecting their NBA rosters and salary cap.

Ultimately this will never happen because the NBA is in bed with the NCAA, and establishing a farm system would poach all of the talent that fills out NCAA rosters. A huge portion of college basketball players would completely bypass the system and take the guaranteed money and shot at the NBA. The reason it doesn't happen with the D-League now is because it is treated as a separate league with no contract affiliation with the NBA.

NoahH
04-06-2014, 04:54 PM
I would love to see 3 rounds in the draft, but in today's NBA landscape that wouldn't be possible unless if every team had their own D-League affiliate to develop those prospects.
That's what i think the NBA should go to. Have a more of a farm team thing like MLB.

slashsnake
04-06-2014, 05:33 PM
I do like the farm system, but the problem there is what is the reward. Sure, there might be a few more role players, but if Mikki Moore or Jordan Farmar never made it to the NBA does the league lose money?

And it wouldn't just take 11 more teams but much bigger salaries I think to convince better players to stay. Remember the D league pays 13k - 25k a year. Leagues in Europe routinely pay 60k a year with some leagues having 100k minimum salaries. Vassillis Spanoulis makes over 3 mil a year in Greece. Nenad Krstic made 3 mil a year in the NBA on average, 4.4 mil in Russia. Not bad for a 50 game schedule and 10 playoff games.

Of course the upside to the D league, is one 10 day contract gets you 60K as well, where in a european league you are there for your contract for most everyone.

Really, I would say that leagues biggest strength is developing coaches, refs and front office personnel.

THE MTL
04-06-2014, 05:39 PM
Nba teams don't have the size of the other league teams

IndyRealist
04-06-2014, 09:32 PM
I do like the farm system, but the problem there is what is the reward. Sure, there might be a few more role players, but if Mikki Moore or Jordan Farmar never made it to the NBA does the league lose money?

And it wouldn't just take 11 more teams but much bigger salaries I think to convince better players to stay. Remember the D league pays 13k - 25k a year. Leagues in Europe routinely pay 60k a year with some leagues having 100k minimum salaries. Vassillis Spanoulis makes over 3 mil a year in Greece. Nenad Krstic made 3 mil a year in the NBA on average, 4.4 mil in Russia. Not bad for a 50 game schedule and 10 playoff games.

Of course the upside to the D league, is one 10 day contract gets you 60K as well, where in a european league you are there for your contract for most everyone.

Really, I would say that leagues biggest strength is developing coaches, refs and front office personnel.

If the D-league were a farm system, pay would be structured differently because the NBA would draft a ton on high schoolers and assign them to Iowa to develop. The majority of them would not be walk ons, they would be drafted in the 3-7th rounds and have contracts with the team that drafted them.

mgsports
04-06-2014, 10:10 PM
Theirs lots of cities that have a Minor League Hockey Team that could have a NBA one to if NBA had other Leagues in USA even if it's a League to go up against the NBA and in Cities that want a NBA Team.
WNBA needs a DL.
More Rounds would be good. The problem with NFL Draft is that all Underclassman or High Schoolers don't get a chance to declare for Draft but in MLB and NHL they do and MLB at some point will have International's in it's.
The NBA/NFL/NFL also doesn't have DFA and so on that MLB.

slashsnake
04-07-2014, 12:45 PM
If the D-league were a farm system, pay would be structured differently because the NBA would draft a ton on high schoolers and assign them to Iowa to develop. The majority of them would not be walk ons, they would be drafted in the 3-7th rounds and have contracts with the team that drafted them.

And why would the NBA want this? Why not let some of the best coaches in the world coach them FOR FREE? Those coaches prep them for the NBA (trust me, if the coach was not known for that, the one and done wouldn't go there). Why pay when you have a free farm system that first year out of highschool?

Remember the D league does draft high schoolers. There is no 1 year removed, or 19 year old clause there.

That is one area I think is doing very well, using the NCAA as a one year farm system for high-school basketball players. It allows them to make a name for themselves a LOT bigger than they ever will in a farm league, and they get a 4 year commitment worth a lot more than any NBA D league contract ever could if they don't work out as an elite talent player.

Seeing the success of players after the 2nd round in the NBA (not enough roster spots to justify), unless I knew I was going in the first 40-45 picks you bet that free education from Duke is the best thing my basketball career is going to get me.

IndyRealist
04-07-2014, 02:19 PM
And why would the NBA want this? Why not let some of the best coaches in the world coach them FOR FREE? Those coaches prep them for the NBA (trust me, if the coach was not known for that, the one and done wouldn't go there). Why pay when you have a free farm system that first year out of highschool?

Remember the D league does draft high schoolers. There is no 1 year removed, or 19 year old clause there.

That is one area I think is doing very well, using the NCAA as a one year farm system for high-school basketball players. It allows them to make a name for themselves a LOT bigger than they ever will in a farm league, and they get a 4 year commitment worth a lot more than any NBA D league contract ever could if they don't work out as an elite talent player.

Seeing the success of players after the 2nd round in the NBA (not enough roster spots to justify), unless I knew I was going in the first 40-45 picks you bet that free education from Duke is the best thing my basketball career is going to get me.

I replied to the issue of compensation, that was your only point in the previous post.

As for this post, if you read what I said previously, you'd see that I believe this will never happen because the nba is in bed with the ncaa. But if it were to happen, it would be because the nba wants better evaluation of players and control of their development. The NBA would LOVE to be able to get young players on cheap contracts and develop them, or they would not have built the D league in the first place.

In a true farm system, the nba would have 7 or so draft rounds and these guys would get 4yr deals to develop in the minors. Salaries would be higher because it would fall under the jurisdiction of the NBAPA since they would sign contracts with the nba team. I can see D leaguers getting 6 figures.

ewing
04-07-2014, 04:07 PM
guy who don't get picked have a better chance of making a roaster as a free agent

Shammyguy3
04-07-2014, 04:25 PM
For people thinking "what's the point most of the players drafted in the 2nd round never make an impact" well, you can say that about every sport, especially baseball. The NBA can develop their D-League exponentially via a system like this where you have a 3rd round. I think bumping it up to 4 would be too much, at least for awhile.

abe_froman
04-07-2014, 04:31 PM
For people thinking "what's the point most of the players drafted in the 2nd round never make an impact" well, you can say that about every sport, especially baseball. The NBA can develop their D-League exponentially via a system like this where you have a 3rd round. I think bumping it up to 4 would be too much, at least for awhile.

no,you cant,those other sports routinely have impacful players coming post 1st/2nd round.something that can/does happen in the nba but is a much,much rarer occurrence ,def not enough to warrant changes(especially as there are already systems like summer league tryouts and d league drafts and europe,that give those post 2nd rounders a chance to show something)

while i would like for the d league to become a farm system,it'll never get done,it'll mean coming to conflict with the ncaa...something they should do,but something the nba wouldnt do(i mean hell they keep raising the age eligibility to make the ncaa happy)

torocan
04-07-2014, 04:44 PM
Personally I don't understand the hubbub about the NCAA. The whole 1 and done rule is a bit of a farce. I mean really, what kind of eduction do you REALLY get from 1 year in college while being pampered as a D1 big school athlete?

Either go all the way and make it 4 years, or let these kids do what they want and either qualify for the draft or don't. Really, how much difference does tinkering around the edges of 1 and done, out of high school or 2 and done really mean? It's not like you can't go back to school if you wash out of the NBA. And for some of these kids, the extra money would help them pay for school.

At least that way the NBA can fully control the development of these players, or they can just suck it up and let them get their degrees if they care so much about their education. Or if they really care so much about these kids' educations, make them attend school part time like they do with child actors.

The NCAA is just one big massive money grab anyway. It's basically athlete slave labor that operates under the guise of "scholarly competition". It really is kind of obscene the amounts of money the big schools are pulling in but the kids who are putting their health on the line and risking long term injuries can't make a few extra bucks.

At least under the NBA umbrella they could get a decent insurance plan.

Shammyguy3
04-07-2014, 05:19 PM
no,you cant,those other sports routinely have impacful players coming post 1st/2nd round.something that can/does happen in the nba but is a much,much rarer occurrence ,def not enough to warrant changes(especially as there are already systems like summer league tryouts and d league drafts and europe,that give those post 2nd rounders a chance to show something)

while i would like for the d league to become a farm system,it'll never get done,it'll mean coming to conflict with the ncaa...something they should do,but something the nba wouldnt do(i mean hell they keep raising the age eligibility to make the ncaa happy)

of course you can abe, it wouldn't be nearly as impactful or successful, but it could definitely occur. Teams would groom prospects to learn their own system and tendencies, eventually it would work. And i'm not saying to have dozens of rounds, or even triple the number (in reference to baseball and football respectfully). It would increase by 1 round.

Definitely doable and realistic.

slashsnake
04-07-2014, 07:37 PM
of course you can abe, it wouldn't be nearly as impactful or successful, but it could definitely occur. Teams would groom prospects to learn their own system and tendencies, eventually it would work. And i'm not saying to have dozens of rounds, or even triple the number (in reference to baseball and football respectfully). It would increase by 1 round.

Definitely doable and realistic.

So what you are saying is that there would be one more round knowing that the roster spot at an NBA level obviously wouldn’t be there right away. Where for example the Celtics could draft a player in the 3rd round, send them to their D league affiliate and groom him in their system right away.

How is that different when after the 2 round NBA draft, the D league holds their draft, and the Maine Red Claws (Celtics D league affiliate) pick up that Chris Wright a few years ago from Dayton with the 3rd overall pick?

The only difference it seems to me, is the name of the draft. But whether you call it the NBA draft or the D league draft, you have an NBA team choosing to draft the 61st (or 63rd in this case) best available prospect to put into their system.

torocan
04-07-2014, 08:36 PM
So what you are saying is that there would be one more round knowing that the roster spot at an NBA level obviously wouldn’t be there right away. Where for example the Celtics could draft a player in the 3rd round, send them to their D league affiliate and groom him in their system right away.

How is that different when after the 2 round NBA draft, the D league holds their draft, and the Maine Red Claws (Celtics D league affiliate) pick up that Chris Wright a few years ago from Dayton with the 3rd overall pick?

The only difference it seems to me, is the name of the draft. But whether you call it the NBA draft or the D league draft, you have an NBA team choosing to draft the 61st (or 63rd in this case) best available prospect to put into their system.

The main difference would be that players you sign to the D-league are players that any team can pick up. No teams have the rights to them, so there's a mixed incentive in terms of developing those players, especially since those players can be cut at any time. Why bother overly investing in a player if a different team can sign them with impunity? Additionally, without the stability of a contract/rights, the players at the D-league level tend to play more selfishly as they seek to accumulate "highlights" that will catch the attention of scouts.

This has been mentioned in multiple interviews with players who played on D-league teams... there is no desire to develop great team habits as the person who passes the ball is much less likely to be noticed than the person who just goes for the bucket.

Another difference is with team rights and a contract of some kind, you create an environment of stability that would keep more players available to the NBA versus taking a guaranteed contract overseas. Who knows how many international players would have blossomed under development in a proper farm system.

As it stands now there are multiple teams in the D-league that are affiliated with multiple teams. The respective NBA teams don't really control the team systems and have little to no control over the hiring of management, in house training programs or systems used. Yes, some of the teams use their D-league teams as proper farm teams, testing systems, establishing skill sets and personnel development, however that isn't going to happen on a team that's affiliated with 2 or 3 different teams.

Improving the D-league would also benefit the NBA in terms of developing their 1st and 2nd round pick players. By raising the standard of play in the D-league, it improves the environment for the 1st and 2nd round pick players who will be training and learning on those teams. Growth goes faster against tougher competition, so anything that improves the talent and competitive level of the D-league ultimately will help identify weaknesses and offer live play situations to experiment and improve the higher draft pick players.

The key is an additional round of draft picks would require a real commitment by the NBA to a farm system, one that fosters and develops talent and aligns the interest of the teams with the interest of the players within that farm system. Ideally it's one that allows the teams to test in a meaningful manner the suitability of those players for entry into the NBA as well as have the flexibility to develop project players with the potential to become meaningful NBA players.

In the end, that improves the product on the court.

Shammyguy3
04-07-2014, 09:05 PM
So what you are saying is that there would be one more round knowing that the roster spot at an NBA level obviously wouldn’t be there right away. Where for example the Celtics could draft a player in the 3rd round, send them to their D league affiliate and groom him in their system right away.

How is that different when after the 2 round NBA draft, the D league holds their draft, and the Maine Red Claws (Celtics D league affiliate) pick up that Chris Wright a few years ago from Dayton with the 3rd overall pick?

The only difference it seems to me, is the name of the draft. But whether you call it the NBA draft or the D league draft, you have an NBA team choosing to draft the 61st (or 63rd in this case) best available prospect to put into their system.

see the post above

mightybosstone
04-07-2014, 10:22 PM
I also voted "no," because I don't think there's a reason for it as the league is currently constructed. But as other posters have suggested, I'd totally support a longer draft if the NBA continued to develop the D-League and turned it into a legitimate minor league system like the MLB has. Not only would it give more young players a chance to make some money playing basketball, but it would help more guys showcase their skills and give them a chance to someday make the NBA. The D-League was a great idea, and it's a good start, but the league needs to take it further.

DetroitBadBoy
04-08-2014, 12:02 AM
Well of course other sports have more rounds. Those sports require more players to be starting and on the bench. There just isn't enough room in the NBA to have anymore rounds than there already are.

I like the idea of stashing prospects in D-league teams kinda like the MLB, if they were to add more rounds.

ewing
04-08-2014, 12:10 AM
I also voted "no," because I don't think there's a reason for it as the league is currently constructed. But as other posters have suggested, I'd totally support a longer draft if the NBA continued to develop the D-League and turned it into a legitimate minor league system like the MLB has. Not only would it give more young players a chance to make some money playing basketball, but it would help more guys showcase their skills and give them a chance to someday make the NBA. The D-League was a great idea, and it's a good start, but the league needs to take it further.

i think international basketball crushes any chance for this happening. It would be great for the league but i just don't see the D league ever being a legit farm system

IndyRealist
04-08-2014, 12:20 AM
It's pretty clear that some people don't see the possibilities. Imagine your team drafts an extremely raw, immature but supremely athletic player with amazing instincts. Now imagine not having to sacrifice wins by putting him on the floor and having him make tons of mistakes, and instead sending him to an affiliate and letting him adapt to the pro game there. And if he improves quickly, you can always call him up.

And then imagine that your team trades for a high draft pick but is right at the tax line. Instead of bringing that guy onto your roster and ballooning your payroll, you stash him in the D-League for a year and avoid the tax hit until you can thin out your roster (I know this is not how it works now, but it will likely work that way if it ever happens).

And now imagine that guy is Lance Stephenson. Because he's exactly the kind of guy who could have used development time in the D-League. He's the hyper athletic knucklehead every team could burn a late round draft pick on, stash him somewhere, and see if he turns into an all-star. I kid you not, in his 2nd year if Bird hadn't called him the most talented player on the team he likely would have been cut. He was that horrible.

And then there's this: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10740125/ncaa-officials-john-calipari-kentucky-wildcats-oppose-one-done-rule


NCAA president Mark Emmert said during his annual news conference Sunday that he is in "vocal opposition" to the rule established by the NBA and its union that requires players be at least one year removed from high school before declaring for the NBA draft.

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby went further, saying "the NFL and NBA have been irresponsible in not providing other legitimate opportunities for kids that really don't want to go to college."

ewing
04-08-2014, 01:49 PM
It's pretty clear that some people don't see the possibilities. Imagine your team drafts an extremely raw, immature but supremely athletic player with amazing instincts. Now imagine not having to sacrifice wins by putting him on the floor and having him make tons of mistakes, and instead sending him to an affiliate and letting him adapt to the pro game there. And if he improves quickly, you can always call him up.

And then imagine that your team trades for a high draft pick but is right at the tax line. Instead of bringing that guy onto your roster and ballooning your payroll, you stash him in the D-League for a year and avoid the tax hit until you can thin out your roster (I know this is not how it works now, but it will likely work that way if it ever happens).

And now imagine that guy is Lance Stephenson. Because he's exactly the kind of guy who could have used development time in the D-League. He's the hyper athletic knucklehead every team could burn a late round draft pick on, stash him somewhere, and see if he turns into an all-star. I kid you not, in his 2nd year if Bird hadn't called him the most talented player on the team he likely would have been cut. He was that horrible.

And then there's this: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10740125/ncaa-officials-john-calipari-kentucky-wildcats-oppose-one-done-rule

the D league will never be able to pay players like international leagues and it will always be a bunch of guys playing only for themselves and a chance to get noticed. Years ago before Isiah's destroyed the CBA and international basketball took off you could have made a decent minor league today today i don't see it happening

ztilzer31
04-08-2014, 02:07 PM
They need a minors system that's better than the NBA D league. Before they do that adding new rounds is pointless

slashsnake
04-08-2014, 02:21 PM
It's pretty clear that some people don't see the possibilities. Imagine your team drafts an extremely raw, immature but supremely athletic player with amazing instincts. Now imagine not having to sacrifice wins by putting him on the floor and having him make tons of mistakes, and instead sending him to an affiliate and letting him adapt to the pro game there. And if he improves quickly, you can always call him up.

And then imagine that your team trades for a high draft pick but is right at the tax line. Instead of bringing that guy onto your roster and ballooning your payroll, you stash him in the D-League for a year and avoid the tax hit until you can thin out your roster (I know this is not how it works now, but it will likely work that way if it ever happens).

And now imagine that guy is Lance Stephenson. Because he's exactly the kind of guy who could have used development time in the D-League. He's the hyper athletic knucklehead every team could burn a late round draft pick on, stash him somewhere, and see if he turns into an all-star. I kid you not, in his 2nd year if Bird hadn't called him the most talented player on the team he likely would have been cut. He was that horrible.

And then there's this: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10740125/ncaa-officials-john-calipari-kentucky-wildcats-oppose-one-done-rule

Why would you want to send Lance to the D league when he could instead learn with the players he's actually playing with in practice at the NBA level. Where he can play 5 on 5 against NBA talent every single week in practice rather than against teams where 10 guys aren't even close to being an NBA talent. Why wouldn't you want him learning from James Posey and Mike Dunleavy how to play the game, and going up against Dahntay Jones on D with Hibbert guarding the paint instead of whomever he would be with in the D league who is just trying to make their own name and could care less about the team?

I think Larry felt it was more his off the court maturity that was needed to work on and to keep him with that team rather than a bunch of other 20 year old projects, right under his nose was the best place to work on Lance.

And I think another reason why the Pacers didn't send Lance to the D league is they develop that way, on the bench and in Pacers practices (ask Foster, Al Harrington or Austin Croshere).

As for the one and done, I don't blame Emmert for saying that. That's why the NBA would never limit contracts to one year. Emmitt should want the college stars to be there for four years.

slashsnake
04-08-2014, 02:58 PM
The main difference would be that players you sign to the D-league are players that any team can pick up. No teams have the rights to them, so there's a mixed incentive in terms of developing those players, especially since those players can be cut at any time. Why bother overly investing in a player if a different team can sign them with impunity? Additionally, without the stability of a contract/rights, the players at the D-league level tend to play more selfishly as they seek to accumulate "highlights" that will catch the attention of scouts.

This has been mentioned in multiple interviews with players who played on D-league teams... there is no desire to develop great team habits as the person who passes the ball is much less likely to be noticed than the person who just goes for the bucket.

Another difference is with team rights and a contract of some kind, you create an environment of stability that would keep more players available to the NBA versus taking a guaranteed contract overseas. Who knows how many international players would have blossomed under development in a proper farm system.

As it stands now there are multiple teams in the D-league that are affiliated with multiple teams. The respective NBA teams don't really control the team systems and have little to no control over the hiring of management, in house training programs or systems used. Yes, some of the teams use their D-league teams as proper farm teams, testing systems, establishing skill sets and personnel development, however that isn't going to happen on a team that's affiliated with 2 or 3 different teams.

Improving the D-league would also benefit the NBA in terms of developing their 1st and 2nd round pick players. By raising the standard of play in the D-league, it improves the environment for the 1st and 2nd round pick players who will be training and learning on those teams. Growth goes faster against tougher competition, so anything that improves the talent and competitive level of the D-league ultimately will help identify weaknesses and offer live play situations to experiment and improve the higher draft pick players.

The key is an additional round of draft picks would require a real commitment by the NBA to a farm system, one that fosters and develops talent and aligns the interest of the teams with the interest of the players within that farm system. Ideally it's one that allows the teams to test in a meaningful manner the suitability of those players for entry into the NBA as well as have the flexibility to develop project players with the potential to become meaningful NBA players.

In the end, that improves the product on the court.

NBA teams I thought could designate two players per team there that were theirs, in addition to three NBA training camp invites. And there have been plenty of draft picks sent down and brought back. The third round is still there, but yes, it is treated like free agency. But you can pull up the names and check for NBA talent in the players the NBA thinks are the next best guys. It isn't there.

The NBA did away with the 3rd round because you might get one to three journeyman NBA player out of it. They used to have that "commitment" you talk about. It was pointless, so they did away with it. Same reason the NFL doesn't still have 12 rounds. Why keep drafting players if you aren't finding quality players? Why hold a professional draft when 90% of those guys will never see a minute on your team? Why not just instead invest that money in better scouting, and get those few guys that slip in the first two rounds.

And I don't see how using as more of a farm system would help the players not try to do their best individually first. Watch a farm minor league hockey game. EVERYONE is trying to be the enforcer where you don't need the elite talent to play in the NHL. Baseball you can do that. Pitching a no hitter doesn't hurt the team. Being a successful long ball hitter or base stealer doesn't hurt the team. You can't steal plate appearances from anyone. The only way you do that for basketball is to pay them a very good salary where it makes the D league team job valuable enough to be more important than making the NBA with their highlights... AKA dumping piles of money into that league.

Breaking up the D league into more teams means the NBA needs to invest more money into it. Right now 14 of the 17 teams have one team affiliate. There's nearly half the league already doing what you are talking about and none of them seeing these great results you hope for. And I still haven't seen a return for that. Where is the star that came out of the D league after a few seasons to the NBA who actually changed an NBA teams financial fortunes? Until that happens with regularity, why invest more in it?

The fact is simply, NBA coaches and teams have the ability to do exactly what you talk about. They can send a 1st round pick to their own D league affiliate to groom them and return them without worrying of another team taking them. An overwhelming majority decide that with basketball, their NBA teammates are the best to practice with. Their NBA nutritional and medical staff is the best to keep them healthy. Their NBA strength coaches are the best to build them up. Their NBA coaches are the best to coach them in practice and that is what happens.

I just think that with all these years of the NBA D league not giving you a franchise changing player, why should a franchise invest more money in it.

slashsnake
04-08-2014, 03:22 PM
By the way, not saying 3 rounds and a better D league wouldn't help the NBA and find a few more role players. My point is financially is it worth creating and investing in this big farm system?

I think the NBA is a bit different than most other sports since so much is based on the team fit playing together and would rather develop player x in hundreds of hours of practice with their team than with a roster of other guys. Sure you can give a point guard minutes in a D league to learn, but is he learning to play with a point forward like Lebron or to feed the post where Blake Griffin likes it? Is he learning how to recognize when Hibbert is waiting to block a shot or when he's tasked towards the perimeter on Bosh? Is he going to learn the same things watching upcoming game tape of Topeka with his D league teammate and coach as going over NBA tape with Doc Rivers and Kevin Garnett?