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mrblisterdundee
04-04-2014, 02:01 AM
Do you go to espn.go.com/NBA (http://espn.go.com/nba/), NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/), basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/) or another site?
Which is better, Player Impact Estimate (http://stats.nba.com/faq.html) (PIE) or Player Efficiency Rating (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html) (PER)?

(P.S.: When did the NBA spring so much on stats? It even partnered with German infotech company SAP.)

P&GRealist
04-04-2014, 02:14 AM
Prosportsdaily.com - NBA Forum

Ebbs
04-04-2014, 02:17 AM
Chronz or someone explain to me the difference between pie and per. I have no idea what the pie is.

abe_froman
04-04-2014, 02:23 AM
all of the above ,plus a few others

Kings Faithful
04-04-2014, 02:28 AM
Used to go to NBA.com, but its been a god awful abomination since they've updated it. Really don't know what they were thinking with the current design. ESPN is great though.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-04-2014, 04:25 AM
the NBA stats page, myself

PatsSoxKnicks
04-04-2014, 04:27 AM
Chronz or someone explain to me the difference between pie and per. I have no idea what the pie is.

Think PIE is explained on the NBA stats page. PER is explained on that basketball-reference page and in more detail in Hollinger's books.

Amit jha
04-04-2014, 07:14 AM
All are good website. You can try some other also.
Watchlivesportonline.com - NBA, Good site.

Ezio
04-04-2014, 10:04 AM
basketball-reference

todu82
04-04-2014, 11:39 AM
A combination of ESPN and Basketball Reference

RiLoc
04-04-2014, 12:42 PM
Do you go to espn.go.com/NBA (http://espn.go.com/nba/), NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/), basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/) or another site?
Which is better, Player Impact Estimate (http://stats.nba.com/faq.html) (PIE) or Player Efficiency Rating (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html) (PER)?

(P.S.: When did the NBA spring so much on stats? It even partnered with German infotech company SAP.)
I use a lot of different sources; NBA stats, Basketball Reference, NBAwowy (http://nbawowy.com/), Stats for the NBA (RAPM) (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/), etc.

To be honest, you might get a better response on this topic on an actual NBA statistics board such as: apbr.org/metrics (http://apbr.org/metrics/)

Anyway...
PIE is NBA's attempt at upgrading their EFF stat to be more like PER.

PIE measures a player's overall statistical contribution against the total statistics in games they play in. PIE yields results which are comparable to other advanced statistics (e.g. PER) using a simple formula.(PTS + FGM + FTM - FGA - FTA + DREB + (.5 * OREB) + AST + STL + (.5 * BLK) - PF - TO) / (GmPTS + GmFGM + GmFTM - GmFGA - GmFTA + GmDREB + (.5 * GmOREB) + GmAST + GmSTL + (.5 * GmBLK) - GmPF - GmTO)

PER: Not quoting this formula, go to http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

Both have the same weaknesses:

Steals and blocks do not produce a good representation of individual performance on defense.
Both will correlate to usage disproportionately in comparison to true shooting percentage. Within the parameters of the normalization, a player can shoot inefficiently but increase their PIE or PER by simply taking more shots.


This might help in regards to PER: Breaking Down PER in the NBA (http://sportsandillumination.com/2014/03/19/breaking-down-per-in-the-nba/)

Just beware, because basketball is about pieces to fitting together, to that end there will never be a single number that is an end all measurement of a player. The way all in one formulas drill down stats into one number, sometimes worry me because people often do not know what the formula is doing and other people falsely see all-in-ones as a representation of what advanced statistics is about.

That being said, among the best all-in-one stats, I prefer Win Shares for the reasons stated in this scout.com post (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=313&f=2178&t=8977326) and RAPM as seen Stats for the NBA (RAPM) (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/)

Bruno
04-04-2014, 01:36 PM
BBR and yahoosports where I have a few fantasy leagues and run numbers.

Chairman Mao
04-04-2014, 01:40 PM
Psd

NoahH
04-04-2014, 02:59 PM
Basketball-Reference and it isn't even close! It's by far the best stat site

PatsSoxKnicks
04-05-2014, 03:06 AM
I use a lot of different sources; NBA stats, Basketball Reference, NBAwowy (http://nbawowy.com/), Stats for the NBA (RAPM) (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/), etc.

Great stuff (of which I already knew about but still). NBAwowy is really good but for whatever reason I haven't used it much, even though I used to be a fairly frequent visitor of Evan's site. But for +/- analysis/combinations, there's really nothing like it.

J.E.'s site is really good, also because he's added some new RAPM type stats based on the 4 factors. I'd also recommend the talkingpractice blog for IPV and gotbuckets.com for pure RAPM.



To be honest, you might get a better response on this topic on an actual NBA statistics board such as: apbr.org/metrics (http://apbr.org/metrics/)

I think there's a thread in there for links.



This might help in regards to PER: Breaking Down PER in the NBA (http://sportsandillumination.com/2014/03/19/breaking-down-per-in-the-nba/)

Are you the owner of that blog (Nick)? Cause I think we're following each other on twitter lol.



That being said, among the best all-in-one stats, I prefer Win Shares for the reasons stated in this scout.com post (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=313&f=2178&t=8977326) and RAPM as seen Stats for the NBA (RAPM) (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/)

Daniel Myers' ASPM I believe was found to be the best at retrodiction. You might check out his metric too. I also like ezPM because it uses play-by-play. Win Shares is obviously good and so is RAPM. Although I'd like to know the difference between JE's RAPM and talkingpractice's version.

slashsnake
04-05-2014, 07:50 AM
82games.com is really neat. Has breakdowns of on vs. off court, by position (ie Lebron has a PER 0f 32.6 at SF vs. 29.6 at PF this year) shot breakdowns (points off jumpers, layups, tip ins, etc), clutch stats, passing breakdowns (assists on layups vs. shots, etc).

RiLoc
04-07-2014, 12:32 PM
ESPN just came out with their own advanced plus minus stat based on Engelmann's work (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/):
ESPN's RPM Leaders (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM)
ESPN's Story on RPM (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus)
Looks interesting. Not certain how it differs from other adjusted plus minus formulas.



This might help in regards to PER: Breaking Down PER in the NBA (http://sportsandillumination.com/2014/03/19/breaking-down-per-in-the-nba/)
Are you the owner of that blog (Nick)? Cause I think we're following each other on twitter lol.Nope, sorry. lol I like the blog though.


Daniel Myers' ASPM I believe was found to be the best at retrodiction. You might check out his metric too. I also like ezPM because it uses play-by-play. Win Shares is obviously good and so is RAPM. Although I'd like to know the difference between JE's RAPM and talkingpractice's version.Cool! Thanks!

PatsSoxKnicks
04-07-2014, 02:56 PM
ESPN just came out with their own advanced plus minus stat based on Engelmann's work (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/):
ESPN's RPM Leaders (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM)
ESPN's Story on RPM (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus)
Looks interesting. Not certain how it differs from other adjusted plus minus formulas.

Nope, sorry. lol I like the blog though.

Cool! Thanks!

Yeah I'm trying to figure out how their metric differs from xRAPM.

sunsfan88
04-08-2014, 08:42 PM
NBA.com used to be good til they changed the format and made it way too confusing.

NBA_Starter
04-08-2014, 09:08 PM
Basketball-Reference

BRADfromOZ
04-09-2014, 02:58 AM
I go to all three but my main port of call would be Basketball Reference