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beyourself
04-01-2014, 08:45 PM
1. Durant
2. Harden
3. Melo
4. Love
5. LeBron

Good list?

Supreme LA
04-01-2014, 08:46 PM
No Curry? I know he's a great shooter but the kid is a flat out scorer as well.

jerellh528
04-01-2014, 08:47 PM
Durant
Melo
Irving
Curry
Love

Robbw241
04-01-2014, 08:47 PM
Joe Johnson. Wouldn't say Lebron or Love are "pure scorers"

Jeffy25
04-01-2014, 08:47 PM
define pure scorer

beyourself
04-01-2014, 08:48 PM
define pure scorer

Emphasis on half court and against set defenses. Emphasis on volume and efficiency.

Ebbs
04-01-2014, 08:51 PM
Durant
Melo
Harden
Curry
Dirk

alexander_37
04-01-2014, 09:47 PM
Joe Johnson. Wouldn't say Lebron or Love are "pure scorers"

So much :laugh:

P&GRealist
04-01-2014, 09:50 PM
That injured guy that wears #24 and will be back next season.

Hawkeye15
04-01-2014, 09:50 PM
define pure scorer

a player that can score in any way possible. And is good at it.

SugeKnight
04-01-2014, 09:55 PM
Curry
Harden
Durant
Dirk
Jefferson

Duncan = Donkey
04-01-2014, 09:56 PM
I hate the term Pure Shooter,Pure scorer, pure PG's. Im not even going to enter this discussion because it sucks.

ricky recon
04-01-2014, 10:09 PM
KD
Dirk
Melo
Curry
Irving

Chronz
04-01-2014, 10:20 PM
Nate Robinson

Slug3
04-01-2014, 10:57 PM
Lebron is 3rd in scoring this year and has had better scoring years than most on everyone's list. But he is somehow not a scorer.

Kaner
04-01-2014, 11:35 PM
1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Melo
4. Curry
5. Harden

jon32
04-02-2014, 12:09 AM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Steph Curry
3. Carmelo Anthoney
4. James Harden
5. LeBron James

Westbrook, Dirk, Lillard, Kobe , A. Davis , K. Love

Crackadalic
04-02-2014, 12:11 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by pure scoring?

Midrange
3 point shooting
Post game scoring
Catch and shoot
Dribble drive

And are we emphasizing on volume of all of those above at a decent clip or just pure efficiency for most of them or 2 minimum

John Walls Era
04-02-2014, 12:25 AM
Love?

JeremiahWing
04-02-2014, 12:35 AM
Durant
Melo
Irving
Harden
Dirk

ManningToTyree
04-02-2014, 12:45 AM
Durant
Melo
Lebron
Harden
Curry

Chrisclover
04-02-2014, 12:55 AM
being a pure scorer could be apprehended as not versatile, right ?

Chrisclover
04-02-2014, 01:00 AM
Nate Robinson
lol, because he is too short to play D and grab rebounds?But anyway, i like his explosiveness. He is a true dynamo IMO. Last year's playoffs he really shone but too bad he didnt stay in the Bulls. My friend told me it was for the return of Rose since the system didnt fit Nate but Rose. But what happened next is known to us all that Rose didnt fully recover. I am wondering how much would they achieve had they kept Nate ?

BenFrank
04-02-2014, 01:34 AM
#1 - Kevin Durant
#2 - James Harden
#3 - Carmello Anthony
#4 - Lebron James
#5 - Steph Curry

People don't realize how many time's Harden has set out a whole 4th Qrt, because he would have between 25-35 points by the end of the 3rd' of a blowout. Him season average don't reflect how many points, he's capable of putting up..

IgglesFanInCO
04-02-2014, 02:05 AM
i think by pure scorer he just means only judge the people by their ability to score

so whoever you think are the best scorers disregarding all assists/rebounding/defense/etc

If im right in my take of "pure scorer" then my 5 are

KD
Melo
Lebron
Harden
Dirk

Curry just misses and will be there soon if he stays healthy

Supreme LA
04-02-2014, 03:05 AM
Why are people putting Harden above Lebron?

Lebron shouldn't be knocked for his all around play. He is without a doubt a better scorer than Harden.

It goes...

1. KD
2. Curry
3. Melo
4. Lebron
5. Love

Deadpool
04-02-2014, 04:00 AM
Durant-No Brainer
Melo
Curry
Harden
Dirk

Kashmir13579
04-02-2014, 04:09 AM
Durant-No Brainer
Melo
Curry
Harden
Dirk good list

tredigs
04-02-2014, 04:54 AM
#1 - Kevin Durant
#2 - James Harden
#3 - Carmello Anthony
#4 - Lebron James
#5 - Steph Curry

People don't realize how many time's Harden has set out a whole 4th Qrt, because he would have between 25-35 points by the end of the 3rd' of a blowout. Him season average don't reflect how many points, he's capable of putting up..

Fail.

Plenty of these guys play on teams with similar or much higher average win differentials and very few average more minutes a night than Harden, who averages the 5th most in the NBA at 38 mpg.

If I had to correlate pure scorer with "most impressive and/or effortless scorers" I'd probably say:

Durant
Curry
Melo
Dirk
Jamal Crawford

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 05:11 AM
Kevin love is not a pure scorer. You can't just throw he the ball and let him go his thing. He gets his in the flow of the game. Pure scorers take what they want. And I don't think LBJ is either he certainly has the ability, but not the mentality.


Melo
Durant
Harden
Tony Parker
Kobe (benefit of the doubt)

mrblisterdundee
04-02-2014, 05:37 AM
1. Kevin Durant 32.2
2. Carmelo Anthony 28.0
3. LeBron James 26.7
4. Kevin Love 26.0
5. James Harden 25.1

beyourself
04-02-2014, 09:18 AM
Why are people putting Harden above Lebron?

Lebron shouldn't be knocked for his all around play. He is without a doubt a better scorer than Harden.

It goes...

1. KD
2. Curry
3. Melo
4. Lebron
5. Love

I'd have a hard time putting Curry there. He's never averaged 25ppg and I just don't see him every winning a scoring title or coming even close.

ManRam
04-02-2014, 09:54 AM
i hate the term pure shooter,pure scorer, pure pg's. Im not even going to enter this discussion because it sucks.

preach!

Tony_Starks
04-02-2014, 10:16 AM
KD
Melo
Harding
Curry
Jamal Crawford

Beltrans Mole
04-02-2014, 10:16 AM
Durant and Melo and then everybody else are far as this list is concerned.

Tony_Starks
04-02-2014, 10:19 AM
I'd have a hard time putting Curry there. He's never averaged 25ppg and I just don't see him every winning a scoring title or coming even close.

But keep in mind he's dropping nearly 10 dimes as well. If you moved him to sg and said just shoot he'd average 25+ easy....

tredigs
04-02-2014, 10:28 AM
I'd have a hard time putting Curry there. He's never averaged 25ppg and I just don't see him every winning a scoring title or coming even close.

Pretty ridiculous reasoning if you ask me. Other than him being an 8.5 apg PG who has never averaged 18 attempts a night and being sub-elite at drawing contact (despite being elite from the stripe), there's nothing he can't do as a scorer at a very high level. I think you're confusing volume with ability - if he was in a situation this season where Klay + Lee went down for an extended period, you'd see him average closer to 20-22 attempts in that span and 28+ PPG with absolute ease. Compare his career eFG% of 55% (56% this year) to a D. Rose at 48% or AI at 45% eFG to better understand that point; he could easily add volume and maintain high end efficiency.

Plus, ~24 ppg isn't too far off your arbitrary threshold as is.

Jetsguy
04-02-2014, 10:43 AM
I say

KD
Melo
Lebron
Dirk
Curry

beyourself
04-02-2014, 12:17 PM
Fail.

Plenty of these guys play on teams with similar or much higher average win differentials and very few average more minutes a night than Harden, who averages the 5th most in the NBA at 38 mpg.

If I had to correlate pure scorer with "most impressive and/or effortless scorers" I'd probably say:

Durant
Curry
Melo
Dirk
Jamal Crawford

Accidental double post.

beyourself
04-02-2014, 12:22 PM
Pretty ridiculous reasoning if you ask me. Other than him being an 8.5 apg PG who has never averaged 18 attempts a night and being sub-elite at drawing contact (despite being elite from the stripe), there's nothing he can't do as a scorer at a very high level. I think you're confusing volume with ability - if he was in a situation this season where Klay + Lee went down for an extended period, you'd see him average closer to 20-22 attempts in that span and 28+ PPG with absolute ease. Compare his career eFG% of 55% (56% this year) to a D. Rose at 48% or AI at 45% eFG to better understand that point; he could easily add volume and maintain high end efficiency.

Plus, ~24 ppg isn't too far off your arbitrary threshold as is.

I understand that, but in the NBA today iso chuckers are extinct. The only guy who relentlessly iso's today I Melo.

Everybody else could be putting up more points with ease if they just started shooting more too. KD could probably average 39 if decided to go rogue like Iverson. LeBron could probably put up 33 ppg if he went rogue as well.

Chronz
04-02-2014, 12:25 PM
Kevin love is not a pure scorer. You can't just throw he the ball and let him go his thing. He gets his in the flow of the game. Pure scorers take what they want. And I don't think LBJ is either he certainly has the ability, but not the mentality.


Melo
Durant
Harden
Tony Parker
Kobe (benefit of the doubt)
Was thinking about TP, but doesn't Nate Robinson force the issue more than TP?

All-In
04-02-2014, 01:03 PM
1. Jordan Crawford
2. KD
3. Melo
4. Dirk
5. Harden

Chronz
04-02-2014, 01:19 PM
Lebron is 3rd in scoring this year and has had better scoring years than most on everyone's list. But he is somehow not a scorer.

Someone always brings his name up in this kind of list but Im starting to see why hes not on here. You see, pure scorers are guys who dont let the game come to them, who force the issue, regardless of whats going on around them.

Guys like Nate Robinson. In this world, a guy like Jamal Crawford/Melo could be a better pure scorer than Bron. His pure scoring ability isn't going to help your offense more than a guy like Bron will but thats why you shouldn't put too much importance in this sort of ranking.

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 01:49 PM
Kevin love is not a pure scorer. You can't just throw he the ball and let him go his thing. He gets his in the flow of the game. Pure scorers take what they want. And I don't think LBJ is either he certainly has the ability, but not the mentality.


Melo
Durant
Harden
Tony Parker
Kobe (benefit of the doubt)
Was thinking about TP, but doesn't Nate Robinson force the issue more than TP?

Maybe, but even if he does. He's still not as good at it. It's really 2 questions. 1st Are you a pure scorer and if so, then 2nd are you one of the 5 best. Nate certainly has the mentality. But he's just not good enough at it.

Slug3
04-02-2014, 01:53 PM
Someone always brings his name up in this kind of list but Im starting to see why hes not on here. You see, pure scorers are guys who dont let the game come to them, who force the issue, regardless of whats going on around them.

Guys like Nate Robinson. In this world, a guy like Jamal Crawford/Melo could be a better pure scorer than Bron. His pure scoring ability isn't going to help your offense more than a guy like Bron will but thats why you shouldn't put too much importance in this sort of ranking.

So it's just chuckers then and not scorers. Because Lebron has shown the ability to score better than most on peoples lists.

Chronz
04-02-2014, 02:01 PM
Maybe, but even if he does. He's still not as good at it. It's really 2 questions. 1st Are you a pure scorer and if so, then 2nd are you one of the 5 best. Nate certainly has the mentality. But he's just not good enough at it.

Isn't this about how they get theres and the kind of ability you need to be able to get your own shot? TP gets more of his in the flow, Nate has to do more individually in order to create his own.

FlashBolt
04-02-2014, 02:12 PM
Clearly Durant, Melo, Kobe, Curry, and Harden. As for LeBron being a scorer, he's not really one. That's the crazy thing that I just can't grasp. He's scoring a bunch of points but that's not what he really intends to do.

NYKnicks4511
04-02-2014, 02:16 PM
#1 - Kevin Durant
#2 - James Harden
#3 - Carmello Anthony
#4 - Lebron James
#5 - Steph Curry

People don't realize how many time's Harden has set out a whole 4th Qrt, because he would have between 25-35 points by the end of the 3rd' of a blowout. Him season average don't reflect how many points, he's capable of putting up..

I'd put Melo above Harden simply due to the fact that his supporting cast is complete garbage and defenses focus in on him and solely him.

beyourself
04-02-2014, 02:18 PM
I'd put Melo above Harden simply due to the fact that his supporting cast is complete garbage and defenses focus in on him and solely him.

Melo could go play with Jordan and teams would focus on Melo. That's because he's gonna ISO till he can't see straight.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-02-2014, 02:32 PM
Did someone just said Joe Johnson? :laugh:

April 1st was yesterday

slashsnake
04-02-2014, 02:55 PM
Clearly Durant, Melo, Kobe, Curry, and Harden. As for LeBron being a scorer, he's not really one. That's the crazy thing that I just can't grasp. He's scoring a bunch of points but that's not what he really intends to do.

Tough one... I think you have them right, but Westbrook, Love, and Dirk could be in the bottom of that top 5 just as well.

And I think I get you on Lebron. Is it the rest of his skills are so great it makes his scoring look less worthy? I was checking something the other day. To this point in their careers Lebron is actually averaging a point more per game than Dominique Wilkins. That is pretty scary for a guy who is thought of how you (and I) think of him.

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 03:07 PM
Maybe, but even if he does. He's still not as good at it. It's really 2 questions. 1st Are you a pure scorer and if so, then 2nd are you one of the 5 best. Nate certainly has the mentality. But he's just not good enough at it.

Isn't this about how they get theres and the kind of ability you need to be able to get your own shot? TP gets more of his in the flow, Nate has to do more individually in order to create his own.


Then you are saying TP is not a pure scorer. I think he is. He has the ability, and a score first mentality.

A Pure scorer to me. Can both score by forcing the issue and in the flow of the game and has the mentality to look to score every-time. Now that doesn't mean he has to shoot it every-time. But he has to have that mentality of I wanna score every time. And to me TP has that.

Nate has the mentality but not the skill. If you put Nate in the there because he goes one on one and shoots a lot. Then Jordan Crawford and nick young are the top pure scorers in the league.

Chronz
04-02-2014, 03:16 PM
Then you are saying TP is not a pure scorer. I think he is. He has the ability, and a score first mentality.
I think he is, just that he gets more of his in the flow of his beautifully designed offensive system than someone like Nate, who has to work tirelessly to get his. Its similar to Bron vs say Melo. Like Bron, TP surveys the floor more, in fact its something hes worked hard on over the years (at the behest of his coach), whereas a guy like Nate/Melo, will get tunnel vision more often and force the issue as a result. Where does a Jamal Crawford rank in this sort of thing?



A Pure scorer to me. Can both score by forcing the issue and in the flow of the game and has the mentality to look to score every-time. Now that doesn't mean he has to shoot it every-time. But he has to have that mentality of I wanna score every time. And to me TP has that.

Nate has the mentality but not the skill. If you put Nate in the there because he goes one on one and shoots a lot. Then Jordan Crawford and nick young are the top pure scorers in the league.
I have a similar definition though I would list Young into the chucker category.

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 03:39 PM
Then you are saying TP is not a pure scorer. I think he is. He has the ability, and a score first mentality.
I think he is, just that he gets more of his in the flow of his beautifully designed offensive system than someone like Nate, who has to work tirelessly to get his. Its similar to Bron vs say Melo. Like Bron, TP surveys the floor more, in fact its something hes worked hard on over the years (at the behest of his coach), whereas a guy like Nate/Melo, will get tunnel vision more often and force the issue as a result. Where does a Jamal Crawford rank in this sort of thing?



A Pure scorer to me. Can both score by forcing the issue and in the flow of the game and has the mentality to look to score every-time. Now that doesn't mean he has to shoot it every-time. But he has to have that mentality of I wanna score every time. And to me TP has that.

Nate has the mentality but not the skill. If you put Nate in the there because he goes one on one and shoots a lot. Then Jordan Crawford and nick young are the top pure scorers in the league.
I have a similar definition though I would list Young into the chucker category.


It seems to me you are going out of your way to make a different point. About who looks to score "more" or something akin to that. As opposed to who's better at it. It's not similar to lebron/melo at all because lebron isn't a pure scorer.


Maybe you'll understand it better if I say it like this. Take 2 pure scorers. Now we have established that their "both" pure scorers. If I tell one has more tunnel vision than the other. How does that tell who the "better" pure scorer is? I don't get it.


It like your saying what ever pure scorer looks to score the most is the best.

Chronz
04-02-2014, 03:44 PM
It seems to me you are going out of your way to make a different point. About who looks to score "more" or something akin to that. As opposed to who's better at it. It's not similar to lebron/melo at all because lebron isn't a pure scorer.
Its similar to it because Melo is more of a pure scorer the same way Nate Robinson is more of a pure scorer than TP, but yes its in part because of how often they look to pass in comparison.



Maybe you'll understand it better if I say it like this. Take 2 pure scorers. Now we have established that their "both" pure scorers. If I tell one has more tunnel vision than the other. How does that tell who the "better" pure scorer is? I don't get it.
Because the guy who gets tunnel vision is the guy whos forcing the issue more, as opposed to scoring in the flow.


It like your saying what ever pure scorer looks to score the most is the best.
That and how good they are at it.

Chronz
04-02-2014, 03:45 PM
So it's just chuckers then and not scorers. Because Lebron has shown the ability to score better than most on peoples lists.
Scorers have a tendency to chuck and force the issue.

Slug3
04-02-2014, 03:49 PM
Scorers have a tendency to chuck and force the issue.

But I mean regardless 2 points is 2 points and 3 points is 3 points. The definition of score is point made/goal made by the scorer. And regardless of how people see Lebron, is still scores and does so better than most.

D-Leethal
04-02-2014, 04:25 PM
"Pure" scoring means fundamental scoring at its core - at its purest form - not scoring via whistles - but scoring via go-to-moves, footwork, fakes, spins, dropsteps, counters (aka - the "fundamentals" you are taught beginning at age 11) - scoring with either hand, scoring via fades, scoring via force, scoring via finesse. Harden is nowhere close to the "purest scorer" even if his stats in the 2014 National Basketball Association tell you different. He has two ways to score - pull up for 3 or bumrush the rim and finish with the left (or get to the FT line).

Basketball in its "purest form" is not NBA basketball in the first place. You want to find out who the purest scorer is, put them on a basketball court 1:1 with Andre Igoudala defending them and see who gets the best of him.

No screens, no flops, no ticky tack whistles, no free throws, no help on either end. Get D'ed up by a lockdown defender and start the chessmatch - thats scoring in its purest form. Kobe, Durant, Melo are the answers here with PG's like Parker and Curry filling out the list. "Pure scoring" is usually demonstrated in the mid range even if 2014 NBA scoring is not.

D-Leethal
04-02-2014, 04:37 PM
Love?

lol, how on Earth is Love a candidate for this?

D-Leethal
04-02-2014, 04:48 PM
Tim Duncan is a MUCH better and more well rounded "pure scorer" than Kevin Love. Pau Gasol as well as far as bigs go. This should really be separated for guards - forwards - bigs since they operate in different areas of the court, using different scoring styles to get it done.

Tony_Starks
04-02-2014, 05:35 PM
Scorers have a tendency to chuck and force the issue.

MJ did both at times but I've never heard him accused of being a chucker...

torocan
04-02-2014, 05:36 PM
When I think "pure scorers" I think versatility. Can they catch and shoot, dribble pull up, mid range, 3 pointer, post up, back to the basket, face to the basket and dunk.

KD
Melo

Those are the only two that stand out in complete skill set (and Kobe if he ever gets back healthy).

The rest are all debatable in varying degrees.

Riodagoat
04-02-2014, 05:42 PM
Pure scorer?

1. Durant
2. Melo
3. Harden
4. Curry
5. ?

Although Lebron is 3rd in scoring, leads his team, and can probably score as much as those guys if he wanted to, he isn't a PURE SCORER, which the OP is asking.

sammyvine
04-02-2014, 05:46 PM
lol melo is a loser

not sure why he so high on everbodys list

inefficient and his teams go nowhere

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 05:48 PM
It seems to me you are going out of your way to make a different point. About who looks to score "more" or something akin to that. As opposed to who's better at it. It's not similar to lebron/melo at all because lebron isn't a pure scorer.
Its similar to it because Melo is more of a pure scorer the same way Nate Robinson is more of a pure scorer than TP, but yes its in part because of how often they look to pass in comparison.



Maybe you'll understand it better if I say it like this. Take 2 pure scorers. Now we have established that their "both" pure scorers. If I tell one has more tunnel vision than the other. How does that tell who the "better" pure scorer is? I don't get it.
Because the guy who gets tunnel vision is the guy whos forcing the issue more, as opposed to scoring in the flow.


It like your saying what ever pure scorer looks to score the most is the best.
That and how good they are at it.


Then your actual argument is that Nate is a better at scoring than TP. We'll just have to disagree on that.

nyKnicks126
04-02-2014, 05:57 PM
I guess Stephen Curry isn't a top scorer?

smith&wesson
04-02-2014, 06:03 PM
Durant
Melo
Kobe
Lebron
Harden

smith&wesson
04-02-2014, 06:05 PM
I guess Stephen Curry isn't a top scorer?

he is, but he is more of a top shooter. There are still other players who have more of a variety of offensive moves in their arsenal.

All-In
04-02-2014, 06:07 PM
lol melo is a loser

not sure why he so high on everbodys list

inefficient and his teams go nowhere
The question is whether or not he is a pure scorer, not how well his teams do, and Melo scores 28ppg on 45fg% and 41% from 3….thats really not that inefficient…he shoots the ball 22 times a game so he might be better described as a ball-stopper on offense rather than inefficient…but as far as pure scoring goes if hes not in your top 5 that’s crazy

Meaze_Gibson
04-02-2014, 07:29 PM
The question is whether or not he is a pure scorer, not how well his teams do, and Melo scores 28ppg on 45fg% and 41% from 3….thats really not that inefficient…he shoots the ball 22 times a game so he might be better described as a ball-stopper on offense rather than inefficient…but as far as pure scoring goes if hes not in your top 5 that’s crazy

He shoots exactly one more shot than durant does a game, while leading league in minutes, and also without an all star worthy second option. Therefore, If shot attempts is your basis of ball stopper then durant should be as well.

Jamiecballer
04-02-2014, 08:36 PM
Durant
Melo
Curry
James
Bryant

D-Leethal
04-02-2014, 09:20 PM
lol melo is a loser

not sure why he so high on everbodys list

inefficient and his teams go nowhere

I must have missed the part where this thread was called "biggest winner".

Tyson Chandler is efficient and doesn't have one offensive move in his arsenal. If you gave him the ball for a bucket he couldn't score on a fly. The guys who aren't asked to widen their arsenal are usually the most efficient ones. That usually means they don't have much of an arsenal in the first place.

D-Leethal
04-02-2014, 09:22 PM
When I think "pure scorers" I think versatility. Can they catch and shoot, dribble pull up, mid range, 3 pointer, post up, back to the basket, face to the basket and dunk.

KD
Melo

Those are the only two that stand out in complete skill set (and Kobe if he ever gets back healthy).

The rest are all debatable in varying degrees.

You and I are on the same page here my friend.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2014, 09:30 PM
Kevin love is not a pure scorer. You can't just throw he the ball and let him go his thing. He gets his in the flow of the game. Pure scorers take what they want. And I don't think LBJ is either he certainly has the ability, but not the mentality.


Melo
Durant
Harden
Tony Parker
Kobe (benefit of the doubt)

I don't disagree with the statement at all, but tell me, would you rather have an isolation scorer who stops the ball on less efficiency, or Love scoring 26 a night in the flow of the game?

And how the **** is Melo first on your list, when Durant is putting on "best pure scorer of all time" type seasons at this point?

Tony_Starks
04-02-2014, 10:23 PM
I read somewhere that KD is on pace to be the first 30 5 5 guy on 50% shooting since MJ. With him basically shooting 40% from 3 and 90% from the line this is about as pure as it gets.

AND he plays with Westbrook!

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 10:37 PM
Kevin love is not a pure scorer. You can't just throw he the ball and let him go his thing. He gets his in the flow of the game. Pure scorers take what they want. And I don't think LBJ is either he certainly has the ability, but not the mentality.


Melo
Durant
Harden
Tony Parker
Kobe (benefit of the doubt)

I don't disagree with the statement at all, but tell me, would you rather have an isolation scorer who stops the ball on less efficiency, or Love scoring 26 a night in the flow of the game?

And how the **** is Melo first on your list, when Durant is putting on "best pure scorer of all time" type seasons at this point?


1. I'd much rather melo than love.


2. It's just a list, no particular order.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2014, 10:38 PM
1. I'd much rather melo than love.


2. It's just a list, no particular order.

Melo has had his 2 best individual seasons recently, and he still isn't as good as Love.

Tony_Starks
04-02-2014, 10:55 PM
Melo has had his 2 best individual seasons recently, and he still isn't as good as Love.

Not to derail but seeing as neither is committed to defense I'm taking Melo all day.

He just has a bigger impact on the game.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2014, 11:01 PM
Not to derail but seeing as neither is committed to defense I'm taking Melo all day.

He just has a bigger impact on the game.

not really. Unless you ignore stats all together.

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 11:16 PM
1. I'd much rather melo than love.


2. It's just a list, no particular order.

Melo has had his 2 best individual seasons recently, and he still isn't as good as Love.


No he isn't as good he's better. Love can't carry a team. He's a great player but more of a robin.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2014, 11:17 PM
No he isn't as good he's better. Love can't carry a team. He's a great player but more of a robin.

exactly what team did Melo carry?

jayjay33
04-02-2014, 11:27 PM
No he isn't as good he's better. Love can't carry a team. He's a great player but more of a robin.

exactly what team did Melo carry?


Every team he's been on in his life. Love on the other hand has never won 40 games in his career.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2014, 11:53 PM
Every team he's been on in his life. Love on the other hand has never won 40 games in his career.

I have spent a lot of time doing this, so I really don't feel like posting a book unless its necessary. But please, expand on what teams Melo "carried". And please, be specific.

goingfor28
04-02-2014, 11:58 PM
Byron Mullens

jayjay33
04-03-2014, 12:04 AM
Every team he's been on in his life. Love on the other hand has never won 40 games in his career.

I have spent a lot of time doing this, so I really don't feel like posting a book unless its necessary. But please, expand on what teams Melo "carried". And please, be specific.


I just told you. Every team he's been on. The Denver and New York.

Hawkeye15
04-03-2014, 12:07 AM
I just told you. Every team he's been on. The Denver and New York.

nah, put some effort into it bud. Break down WHY those teams made the playoffs.

jayjay33
04-03-2014, 12:21 AM
I just told you. Every team he's been on. The Denver and New York.

nah, put some effort into it bud. Break down WHY those teams made the playoffs.


Nah, YOU put some effort into it bud. Break down WHY he didn't carry those teams to the playoffs.

ricky recon
04-03-2014, 12:39 AM
nah, put some effort into it bud. Break down WHY those teams made the playoffs.

The Timberwolves aren't even in playoff contention. They are 6.5 games out, with what, 10 games left? What, are the pieces around Love that bad? Pekovic at center? Kevin Martin on the wing? That team is built a lot like the Mavericks team that won it all in 10-11, yet instead of being a championship team, they aren't even in playoff contention. Is it because [insert bull ****]? Or is it because Kevin Love is a good player, but he isn't half the half-court offensive player Dirk Nowitzki is? You give Dirk the ball and he does what he does, nobody is going to guard him. You can contest his shot, but he's as unguardable as anyone in the league in a one-on-one halfcourt set. Throw out whatever metrics you want, there's a reason why he's had success and Love hasn't been to the playoffs. Love is a good player and a stat stuffer. He just isn't the kind of talent some of those other guys in a halfcourt set are, and tape shows that.

How is Denver doing this year? Worse than the T-Wolves. How far did they get in the playoffs without him? They haven't won a single playoff series. However, trying to quantify why which teams made it to the playoffs based off individual players is ridiculous. You can say Tyson Chandler was the reason the Mavericks won a championship, but it's really just relative. Without Dirk that team wasn't a playoff team. You can play the swap game and say "Oh, if Love was here and there, than this or that would happen", but the fact of the matter is Kevin Love isn't playing with the worst supporting cast in the world. He has good players around him, and he hasn't been in the playoffs in the 6 years he's been in the NBA. What does that really say about how great someone can really say he is? I'd be interested to see if you could find a great player who didn't make the playoffs in any kind of 5 year span.

Go ahead and tell me why the Timberwolves are not in the playoff picture at the end of the year if Kevin Love is an elite player who can carry the load for a contender, and is a top 5 offensive player. Points per game doesn't qualify a great offensive player, elite offensive ability qualifies a player as a top 5 offensive player. They usually go hand in hand, but are not one in the same.

Hawkeye15
04-03-2014, 12:41 AM
Nah, YOU put some effort into it bud. Break down WHY he didn't carry those teams to the playoffs.

I am asking you to tell me why Melo's teams always went to the playoffs. Here is a simple example. Look at the complete injury situation for Denver in 2002, and the upgrades they made outside Melo following that season. Start there.

Hawkeye15
04-03-2014, 12:43 AM
The Timberwolves aren't even in playoff contention. They are 6.5 games out, with what, 10 games left? What, are the pieces around Love that bad? Pekovic at center? Kevin Martin on the wing? That team is built a lot like the Mavericks team that won it all in 10-11, yet instead of being a championship team, they aren't even in playoff contention. Is it because [insert bull ****]? Or is it because Kevin Love is a good player, but he isn't half the half-court offensive player Dirk Nowitzki is? You give Dirk the ball and he does what he does, nobody is going to guard him. You can contest his shot, but he's as unguardable as anyone in the league in a one-on-one halfcourt set. Throw out whatever metrics you want, there's a reason why he's had success and Love hasn't been to the playoffs. Love is a good player and a stat stuffer. He just isn't the kind of talent some of those other guys in a halfcourt set are, and tape shows that.

How is Denver doing this year? Worse than the T-Wolves. How far did they get in the playoffs without him? They haven't won a single playoff series. However, trying to quantify why which teams made it to the playoffs based off individual players is ridiculous. You can say Tyson Chandler was the reason the Mavericks won a championship, but it's really just relative. Without Dirk that team wasn't a playoff team. You can play the swap game and say "Oh, if Love was here and there, than this or that would happen", but the fact of the matter is Kevin Love isn't playing with the worst supporting cast in the world. He has good players around him, and he hasn't been in the playoffs in the 6 years he's been in the NBA. What does that really say about how great someone can really say he is? I'd be interested to see if you could find a great player who didn't make the playoffs in any kind of 5 year span.

Go ahead and tell me why the Timberwolves are not in the playoff picture at the end of the year if Kevin Love is an elite player who can carry the load for a contender, and is a top 5 offensive player. Points per game doesn't qualify a great offensive player, elite offensive ability qualifies a player as a top 5 offensive player. They usually go hand in hand, but are not one in the same.

you gave me names, but the fit of the Wolves is garbage. Has been all year. Prior to this year, please tell me how any star not named LeBron/Durant/Paul/healthy Howard is taking the Wolves to the playoffs.

jayjay33
04-03-2014, 01:05 AM
[QUOTE=jayjay33;28258480]Nah, YOU put some effort into it bud. Break down WHY he didn't carry those teams to the playoffs.

I am asking you to tell me why Melo's teams always went to the playoffs. Here is a simple example. Look at the complete injury situation for Denver in 2002, and the upgrades they made outside Melo following that season. Start there.[/QUOTE

And I'm telling you, to tell me why he didn't. You're the one with the issue, so you do it. Melo has taken teams with equal maybe even less talent than love has to the playoffs. Start there.....


If you think you're gonna get me to write a ton of stuff, so you can give your...nah I'm not convinced two sentence answer. Like you just did to the guy above me and I've seen you do to countless others, you're crazy. You do it or we'll leave it at melo's better and love can't carry a team......that works for me.

FlashBolt
04-03-2014, 01:11 AM
The thing about "scorer" is that people have different representations of what it actually means. Scoring as in points or scoring as in who can put up a bucket at any place, against anyone, while making it look effortless? That has Kevin Durant all over it. He's without a doubt the best scorer.

jerellh528
04-03-2014, 01:20 AM
The thing about "scorer" is that people have different representations of what it actually means. Scoring as in points or scoring as in who can put up a bucket at any place, against anyone, while making it look effortless? That has Kevin Durant all over it. He's without a doubt the best scorer.

Yeah I don't think anyone would refute that. It's 2-5 that gets a little fuzzy. Although most have melo at 2 as well.

Hawkeye15
04-03-2014, 01:28 AM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;28258623]

I am asking you to tell me why Melo's teams always went to the playoffs. Here is a simple example. Look at the complete injury situation for Denver in 2002, and the upgrades they made outside Melo following that season. Start there.[/QUOTE

And I'm telling you, to tell me why he didn't. You're the one with the issue, so you do it. Melo has taken teams with equal maybe even less talent than love has to the playoffs. Start there.....


If you think you're gonna get me to write a ton of stuff, so you can give your...nah I'm not convinced two sentence answer. Like you just did to the guy above me and I've seen you do to countless others, you're crazy. You do it or we'll leave it at melo's better and love can't carry a team......that works for me.

lemme know when Love has Melo roster support from his entire time in Denver.

Melo's years in the east I don't care about. If you can't lead a team to the playoffs in that conference, you are not a superstar. Period.

Again, show me, specifically, year by year, how Love had anywhere near the roster support or coaching staff Melo did in Denver. You keep ducking it. I do as well, because I am tired of showing it. Melo had a very good, sometimes awesome roster around him.

FlashBolt
04-03-2014, 01:42 AM
Carmelo had Allen Iverson who was a top 5-8 player at that time.

jayjay33
04-03-2014, 01:46 AM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;28258623]

I am asking you to tell me why Melo's teams always went to the playoffs. Here is a simple example. Look at the complete injury situation for Denver in 2002, and the upgrades they made outside Melo following that season. Start there.[/QUOTE

And I'm telling you, to tell me why he didn't. You're the one with the issue, so you do it. Melo has taken teams with equal maybe even less talent than love has to the playoffs. Start there.....


If you think you're gonna get me to write a ton of stuff, so you can give your...nah I'm not convinced two sentence answer. Like you just did to the guy above me and I've seen you do to countless others, you're crazy. You do it or we'll leave it at melo's better and love can't carry a team......that works for me.

lemme know when Love has Melo roster support from his entire time in Denver.

Melo's years in the east I don't care about. If you can't lead a team to the playoffs in that conference, you are not a superstar. Period.

Again, show me, specifically, year by year, how Love had anywhere near the roster support or coaching staff Melo did in Denver. You keep ducking it. I do as well, because I am tired of showing it. Melo had a very good, sometimes awesome roster around him.


1. Forget playoffs, love cant even get to 40. There's no comparison.

2. (bold) Well then we'll leave it at that. Because you're not about to do the work and neither am I.

FlashBolt
04-03-2014, 01:49 AM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;28258876]


1. Forget playoffs, love cant even get to 40. There's no comparison.

2. (bold) Well then we'll leave it at that. Because you're not about to do the work and neither am I.

West is more stacked than ever and Love has never had the roster or support that Melo had. I'm not a huge fan of Love but he's wasting his time in Wolves. Arguably one of the worst front offices in the league. Meanwhile, Melo hops from team to team and still can't get things done. Also, in today's league, it's pretty much evident at this point that no one can win alone.

Hawkeye15
04-03-2014, 01:50 AM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;28258876]


1. Forget playoffs, love cant even get to 40. There's no comparison.

2. (bold) Well then we'll leave it at that. Because you're not about to do the work and neither am I.

I have done the work. I am just tired of repeating it if the other person isn't willing to give effort.

Melo led very talented rosters to the playoffs in the west, while his fans completely ignore what his roster was from day 1. Amazing. And even in the biggest joke of a conference, he still can't lead his team to ****.

cool

Hawkeye15
04-03-2014, 01:52 AM
[QUOTE=jayjay33;28258928]

West is more stacked than ever and Love has never had the roster or support that Melo had. I'm not a huge fan of Love but he's wasting his time in Wolves. Arguably one of the worst front offices in the league. Meanwhile, Melo hops from team to team and still can't get things done. Also, in today's league, it's pretty much evident at this point that no one can win alone.

at the end of the day, if Love wants to win, he is for sure wasting his time with my favorite team. The FO has no idea what its doing. Never has, probably never will until Taylor sells the team or dies.

jayjay33
04-03-2014, 03:09 AM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;28258876]


1. Forget playoffs, love cant even get to 40. There's no comparison.

2. (bold) Well then we'll leave it at that. Because you're not about to do the work and neither am I.

I have done the work. I am just tired of repeating it if the other person isn't willing to give effort.

Melo led very talented rosters to the playoffs in the west, while his fans completely ignore what his roster was from day 1. Amazing. And even in the biggest joke of a conference, he still can't lead his team to ****.

cool

And yet melo has led multiple teams to the playoffs and even the conference finals. While love has never won 40 games. Now that's amazing. You can make all the excuses you want. But there's no comparison. It is what it is. Just let it go. Lol

Chronz
04-03-2014, 10:45 AM
Basketball in its "purest form" is not NBA basketball in the first place. You want to find out who the purest scorer is, put them on a basketball court 1:1 with Andre Igoudala defending them and see who gets the best of him.
I dont think thats a good test, I think you mean if we were to limit offensive players to jumpshots and make it a 1 on 2 (or 3) type of thing, thats when you got yourself a pure scorer test. Otherwise, Bron would just back Iggy down and without a wall waiting for him at the rim, hes going to score. Remember, with Bron (and most stars) its the 2nd line of defense that they worry most about. Bron is special because he surveys and assesses quickly, if you remove the danger of help defense, hes just going to be alot more physical and direct in his attack.

But in my test, I feel like Jamal Crawford would rank higher than most superior offensive guys, like even CP3. I dunno tho, where does Crawford rank for you? I get the feeling its higher than Harden.



But I mean regardless 2 points is 2 points and 3 points is 3 points. The definition of score is point made/goal made by the scorer. And regardless of how people see Lebron, is still scores and does so better than most.
Yeah but its an artistic thing, we're not focusing so much on the efficiency/effectiveness of the attack, mostly the aesthetics


MJ did both at times but I've never heard him accused of being a chucker...
agreed.



Then your actual argument is that Nate is a better at scoring than TP. We'll just have to disagree on that.
Hes obviously not better at scoring, just like Melo isn't better at scoring than Bron. But this type of breakdown is more about HOW they get their shots, isnt it? Like we aren't literally just looking at who the top scorers are and how effective they are with their possessions, just mostly focusing on what it takes to get them to make it.

Walt
04-03-2014, 10:53 AM
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
James Harden

But KD and Dirk own them all in efficiency.

Snapshot
04-03-2014, 11:08 AM
"Pure" scoring means fundamental scoring at its core - at its purest form - not scoring via whistles - but scoring via go-to-moves, footwork, fakes, spins, dropsteps, counters (aka - the "fundamentals" you are taught beginning at age 11) - scoring with either hand, scoring via fades, scoring via force, scoring via finesse. Harden is nowhere close to the "purest scorer" even if his stats in the 2014 National Basketball Association tell you different. He has two ways to score - pull up for 3 or bumrush the rim and finish with the left (or get to the FT line).

Basketball in its "purest form" is not NBA basketball in the first place. You want to find out who the purest scorer is, put them on a basketball court 1:1 with Andre Igoudala defending them and see who gets the best of him.

No screens, no flops, no ticky tack whistles, no free throws, no help on either end. Get D'ed up by a lockdown defender and start the chessmatch - thats scoring in its purest form. Kobe, Durant, Melo are the answers here with PG's like Parker and Curry filling out the list. "Pure scoring" is usually demonstrated in the mid range even if 2014 NBA scoring is not.

Best post in the thread...someone finally gets it.

I got..
KD
Melo
Curry
Kobe (healthy)
Dirk

with guys like J. Crawford, TP, and Harden not too far behind.

And lol @ Hawkeye comparing Love to Melo, both losers u can say but at least one won on a college level and has made the PO's every year.....sumn u cant say about Love...wouldnt be surprised if he didnt win at the HS level either...sad.

tredigs
04-03-2014, 01:38 PM
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmelo Anthony
James Harden

But KD and Dirk own them all in efficiency.

I think it's a good list, but you can throw Curry in their efficiency range. By TS% Durant crushes them all on account of his volume from the line (being that they're all top 5 foul shooters in the game the efficiency there is moot), but if you're just looking at eFG% they're all about equal (it goes KD > Curry > Dirk, but it's close). Harden's not so far behind himself, but Melo's a bit of an outcast despite being as efficient a shooter as he's ever been.

IKnowHoops
04-03-2014, 02:10 PM
Durant
Melo
Irving
Curry
Love

Lebron scores more points on a higher percentage than 3 of those guys and scores at just a higher percentage than all. That would make your list wrong.

IKnowHoops
04-03-2014, 02:12 PM
1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Melo
4. Curry
5. Harden

Finally a real list

ewing
04-03-2014, 02:13 PM
^^^^ this guy does know hoops

IKnowHoops
04-03-2014, 02:22 PM
I guess that the one thing we can take from this thread is that after Durant, Lebron is better at scoring than the rest of these "pure scorers" are at scoring. And thats why he is the best in the game. He is better at what he is not trying to do, than others are at what they focus on doing.

Jamiecballer
04-03-2014, 02:50 PM
I guess that the one thing we can take from this thread is that after Durant, Lebron is better at scoring than the rest of these "pure scorers" are at scoring. And thats why he is the best in the game. He is better at what he is not trying to do, than others are at what they focus on doing.

qft

FlashBolt
04-03-2014, 03:05 PM
Lebron scores more points on a higher percentage than 3 of those guys and scores at just a higher percentage than all. That would make your list wrong.

That's not what scoring means... You're making things worse for yourself.

sammyvine
04-03-2014, 05:26 PM
That's not what scoring means... You're making things worse for yourself.

that guy has sex with lebron

everything is about lebron. its creepy

jerellh528
04-03-2014, 05:28 PM
I guess that the one thing we can take from this thread is that after Durant, Lebron is better at scoring than the rest of these "pure scorers" are at scoring. And thats why he is the best in the game. He is better at what he is not trying to do, than others are at what they focus on doing.

Lol

IKnowHoops
04-05-2014, 07:02 PM
That's not what scoring means... You're making things worse for yourself.

Combination of high points and high efficiency no? What does scoring mean if not that?

The goal for all offense is to score the most points with the highest efficiency. And nobody other than arguably Durant can do this on the level of Lebron. The goal isn't who can score in the most variety of ways. The goal is who can score the most whichever way he chooses, but in the most efficient way. If your saying pure scoring is not high scoring at high efficiency, then we are probably measuring a stat for a player that is actual detrimental to his team. That stat could just as easily be called which player shoots the most difficult shots per game. But the point being your measuring the stat off of criteria that smart basketball tries to avoid in many cases. Your measuring to a degree who is the best at what is wrong with basketball. Making 5 different shots out of 10 does not make you a better scorer than someone who made 8/10 shots driving to the rim.

slashsnake
04-05-2014, 07:08 PM
qft

it made sense... Kind of like how Kobe was a better defender than a lot of pure defenders or how Love can clean the boards a lot better than some pure rebounders in the league.

Guys who make their trademark at one thing and while it is only a small part of this person's game his ability at what he does in that area is better than a lot of guys who make that their top focus.

IKnowHoops
04-05-2014, 07:34 PM
that guy has sex with lebron

everything is about lebron. its creepy

:up:

tredigs
04-06-2014, 03:34 AM
Combination of high points and high efficiency no? What does scoring mean if not that?

The goal for all offense is to score the most points with the highest efficiency. And nobody other than arguably Durant can do this on the level of Lebron. The goal isn't who can score in the most variety of ways. The goal is who can score the most whichever way he chooses, but in the most efficient way. If your saying pure scoring is not high scoring at high efficiency, then we are probably measuring a stat for a player that is actual detrimental to his team. That stat could just as easily be called which player shoots the most difficult shots per game. But the point being your measuring the stat off of criteria that smart basketball tries to avoid in many cases. Your measuring to a degree who is the best at what is wrong with basketball. Making 5 different shots out of 10 does not make you a better scorer than someone who made 8/10 shots driving to the rim.

Simply put, you don't get it. But what's new as it relates to anything that could be seen as a slight to your leader.

You're insinuating that Shaq was also the definition of a pure scorer (if that helps illustrate to you why many don't have Lebron on their list despite his clear ability to score on both high volume + high efficiency).

torocan
04-06-2014, 09:34 AM
Combination of high points and high efficiency no? What does scoring mean if not that?

The goal for all offense is to score the most points with the highest efficiency. And nobody other than arguably Durant can do this on the level of Lebron. The goal isn't who can score in the most variety of ways. The goal is who can score the most whichever way he chooses, but in the most efficient way.

I don't agree with this because comparisons of efficiency break down heavily depending on role, roster, system and coaching.

Lebron is highly efficient on the Heat.

Take him off the Heat and swap him with Melo and what happens to his efficiency playing under Mike Woodson? Do you see the same efficiency when he's being double/triple teamed on every shot and some nights not a single other player on the team can sink a bucket?

How about put him on the Lakers under D'Antoni in a run and gun system with emphasis on corner 3's and playing next to a D-league team roster. Do you still see the same efficiency?

Efficiency can be heavily impacted by factors OTHER than the players' ability to score.

A perfect example is the Spurs. The Spurs get more uncontested shots than any other team in the NBA. Doesn't that highly impact efficiency? Put a player on the Spurs where they get more open shots vs a team like the Knicks that run a fairly predictable offense and your life can be much easier or harder as the Star player.

If you need to measure one scorer versus another without the benefit of their system, or the advantages or disadvantages of a loaded/terrible roster, and without the impact of coaching then one of the only ways to do that is to look at skill set.

mightybosstone
04-06-2014, 10:20 AM
I'd probably say something like:
1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Melo
4. Harden
5. Love/Griffin/Curry/Dirk

The first three for me aren't that debatable. Durant and Lebron are the two most efficient, prolific scorers in the game. They both boast a TS% over 64% and they can both kill you a million ways. Melo is a distant third, but he certainly belongs on this list. He's nowhere near as efficient as most of the players on this list, but he has a knack for scoring from anywhere on the floor, and he hits shots that are impossible to guard.

The next two spots are much tougher. I gave Harden the significant edge over the other guys, because he's more efficient than they are (61.7 TS%), but he also offers more versatility as a scorer. He obviously excels at scoring in the paint and getting to the line, but he's also a damn solid perimeter shooter. The fifth spot is totally up for grabs, but I'd probably give Love the slightest of edges because of his versatility. Dirk is arguably more dangerous than any of those guys, but I discount him a little bit for lesser production because of fewer minutes player. And you can make a strong case for Curry and Griffin, but their games are still a little more one-dimensional than most of the guys on this list. They've both improved other areas of their games greatly this season, but I would like to see Blake develop his perimeter jumper a lot more and see Curry settle for fewer jumpers and get to the rim a little more.