PDA

View Full Version : Was Mason Plumlee the best use of a pick in last years draft?



Jeffy25
03-30-2014, 05:36 PM
Has put up pretty strong numbers for the 22nd overall pick.

Tim Hardaway has been strong, same with Ryan Kelly

leprechaun5
03-30-2014, 05:41 PM
Plumlee is solid .He has a lot of weaknesses but considering how bad this draft was and he got picked at 22 i call him a very good pick by Nets .

Hardaway Jr is garbage in D ,absolutely awful .

abe_froman
03-30-2014, 05:50 PM
so far? probably.

....what a crappy class

IndyRealist
03-30-2014, 05:55 PM
If he's not the steal of the draft at #22, I'm not sure who is.

leprechaun5
03-30-2014, 06:02 PM
If he's not the steal of the draft at #22, I'm not sure who is.

Giannis Antetokounmpo

FraziersKnicks
03-30-2014, 06:03 PM
Well considering Hardaway is gonna be 1st team All-Rookie and he was the 24th overall pick I'd say him.

abe_froman
03-30-2014, 06:04 PM
If he's not the steal of the draft at #22, I'm not sure who is.
the steal of the draft is probably noel,at least he's still a mystery to us and we can pretend he wont suck like the rest

Ill21
03-30-2014, 06:12 PM
THJ all day

ManRam
03-30-2014, 06:20 PM
Well considering Hardaway is gonna be 1st team All-Rookie and he was the 24th overall pick I'd say him.

Plumlee has been significantly better than THJ, it's just THJ has gotten a tad bit more playing time. Moreover, your logic is a bit flawed. Their play in their rookie year and whatever accolades they win doesn't answer this question. That's just one year...it's only really great value if these guys keep it up for years. Him making 1st team isn't the difference maker at all. I don't like his upside. He's a gunner with a low offensive IQ, and no ability to defend anything.

I still think the best player in this draft is the guy who hasn't stepped onto the court yet, and he fell foolishly because of injury. If Noel is truly the best player and the 76ers got him 6th, then that's a huge still. Hell, MCW at 11 looks to be great value too. Philly did great.

I'll throw Wolters' name out there. I think he can stick around.

But I do think Plumlee at 22 is the early front runner. Maybe a top 3-5 player in this draft going forward.

ricky recon
03-30-2014, 06:27 PM
To put it simply, it's way too early.

FraziersKnicks
03-30-2014, 06:44 PM
Plumlee has been significantly better than THJ, it's just THJ has gotten a tad bit more playing time. Moreover, your logic is a bit flawed. Their play in their rookie year and whatever accolades they win doesn't answer this question. That's just one year...it's only really great value if these guys keep it up for years. Him making 1st team isn't the difference maker at all. I don't like his upside. He's a gunner with a low offensive IQ, and no ability to defend anything.

I still think the best player in this draft is the guy who hasn't stepped onto the court yet, and he fell foolishly because of injury. If Noel is truly the best player and the 76ers got him 6th, then that's a huge still. Hell, MCW at 11 looks to be great value too. Philly did great.

I'll throw Wolters' name out there. I think he can stick around.

But I do think Plumlee at 22 is the early front runner. Maybe a top 3-5 player in this draft going forward.

I agree with what you say but the only thing we can really go off right now is what they've done on the court, and THJR has been a steal for his pick.

IndyRealist
03-30-2014, 06:50 PM
the steal of the draft is probably noel,at least he's still a mystery to us and we can pretend he wont suck like the rest
Can't be on board with Noel till we see him play.

As far as Giannis goes, he's still extremely raw, whereas Plumlee is extremely refined for a rookie. In 3 years that may be substantially different, but for year one I have to stick with Plumlee.

waveycrockett
03-30-2014, 06:52 PM
There have been a bunch of Rookie guys who have out played him but he has been a god send. If we didn't have him we are not in the playoffs right now. It's scary to think how raw he is offensively with that athleticism he can improve alot.

FraziersKnicks
03-30-2014, 06:52 PM
I know it's waaaaay too early to tell but this draft could go down in history as the worst of all time.

Certainly in terms of the top 10 picks. Everyone outside of Oladipo and Burke have been awful.

waveycrockett
03-30-2014, 07:02 PM
I know it's waaaaay too early to tell but this draft could go down in history as the worst of all time.

Certainly in terms of the top 10 picks. Everyone outside of Oladipo and Burke have been awful.

MCW is going to be a good one. The 76ers have surrounded him with a D-League team. In the 1st half of the year he looked like a stud when they had actually NBA quality players on the lineup plus having an athletic big like Noel will help his development

lajoie
03-30-2014, 07:07 PM
I'll take Dieng over Plumlee.

Lakers + Giants
03-30-2014, 07:22 PM
Plumlee has been better than expected for Brooklyn, he's a solid choice.

Ryan Kelly has also been a solid draft pick considering where we got him. I think he'll have one of the longest careers of this draft, a lot of players suck . .

Hawkeye15
03-30-2014, 07:25 PM
this draft so far has looked as weak as I can remember. But, you can't judge a draft until 2-3 years in really.

Hawkeye15
03-30-2014, 07:26 PM
I'll take Dieng over Plumlee.

I have been campaigning the Wolves board that we should look to trade Pekovic this summer, and let Dieng start next to Love. Better fit defensively, and Pekovic can get us the desperate wing help/bench help we need.

waveycrockett
03-30-2014, 07:44 PM
I'll take Dieng over Plumlee.
They are going head to head right now. Plumlee has looked much better than Dieng today for sure but this is 1st I've really seen of Dieng. Andray Blatche has really abused Dieng today. Plums is holding is own against Pek

Hawkeye15
03-30-2014, 07:55 PM
They are going head to head right now. Plumlee has looked much better than Dieng today for sure but this is 1st I've really seen of Dieng. Andray Blatche has really abused Dieng today. Plums is holding is own against Pek

Dieng was studding it out with Pekovic out. Now that he is playing with the 2nd unit basically, we won't see much, since the 2nd unit is a complete joke. He was averaging 13/14/2 as a starter.

Max.This
03-30-2014, 07:57 PM
Plumlee has been significantly better than THJ, it's just THJ has gotten a tad bit more playing time. Moreover, your logic is a bit flawed. Their play in their rookie year and whatever accolades they win doesn't answer this question. That's just one year...it's only really great value if these guys keep it up for years. Him making 1st team isn't the difference maker at all. I don't like his upside. He's a gunner with a low offensive IQ, and no ability to defend anything.

I still think the best player in this draft is the guy who hasn't stepped onto the court yet, and he fell foolishly because of injury. If Noel is truly the best player and the 76ers got him 6th, then that's a huge still. Hell, MCW at 11 looks to be great value too. Philly did great.

I'll throw Wolters' name out there. I think he can stick around.

But I do think Plumlee at 22 is the early front runner. Maybe a top 3-5 player in this draft going forward.

It's unfair to say that someone has low offensive IQ. What does that even mean? Are you trying to say he's a one dimensional player or that the kid has the IQ of michael beasley? If you listen to the kid, you'd know he is humble, respectful and has a solid foundation led by his father. How can you deem someone's logic to be flawed when your opinion of best player is someone who hasn't even played a minute on the court.

D-Leethal
03-30-2014, 08:22 PM
I pegged Plumlee as a stud, I had no idea his brother was any good though.

king4day
03-30-2014, 08:26 PM
I have been campaigning the Wolves board that we should look to trade Pekovic this summer, and let Dieng start next to Love. Better fit defensively, and Pekovic can get us the desperate wing help/bench help we need.

Do Wolves fans talk about that fan built rumor (I think it was the fans) of Rubio, Pek and change for Westbrook?
Would you do that?

king4day
03-30-2014, 08:28 PM
Regarding the thread, I'm sure if you did a redo of the draft, Plumlee would get taken higher.

I know people haven't seen much, but in the next year or two, I believe more people will talk about Alex Len. He has the tools to be great. Just needs to learn the game more.

JEDean89
03-30-2014, 09:19 PM
i'll take dieng over plumlee any day also. he's and giannis were terrific picks.

waveycrockett
03-30-2014, 09:22 PM
i'll take dieng over plumlee any day also. he's and giannis were terrific picks.

lmao @ any day. I want to know what game you were watching today.

NBA_Starter
03-30-2014, 09:32 PM
He certainly has come in handy with KG missing so much time.

Jets012
03-30-2014, 09:45 PM
Dieng was studding it out with Pekovic out. Now that he is playing with the 2nd unit basically, we won't see much, since the 2nd unit is a complete joke. He was averaging 13/14/2 as a starter.

The Wolves 100% should make that move. However they won't. I feel like NBA teams never make these types of moves, when they should.

Love and Dieng make A Lot of sense together given their troubles down low defensively which I'm sure you know. Dieng I definitely think is going to be a top 6-7 player in this draft class. I see him being a Samuel Dalembert type. Don't know how accurate that is but his defense and rebounding have impressed me A lot this year.

Pekovic should have a lot of trade value too. It will hurt your offense a bit to move him, but I'm sure you can get a real solid piece back. A team like NO would make a lot of sense for Pek. Davis/Pekovic down low would do a lot of work.

GunFactor187
03-30-2014, 09:47 PM
I have been campaigning the Wolves board that we should look to trade Pekovic this summer, and let Dieng start next to Love. Better fit defensively, and Pekovic can get us the desperate wing help/bench help we need.

I for one would definitely love to see Dieng/Love play together full-time, I feel their ceiling, tandem-wise could be a Big Ben/Roscoe (Sheed) Wallace type of a frontline, respectively.

ManRam
03-30-2014, 09:48 PM
It's unfair to say that someone has low offensive IQ. What does that even mean? Are you trying to say he's a one dimensional player or that the kid has the IQ of michael beasley? If you listen to the kid, you'd know he is humble, respectful and has a solid foundation led by his father. How can you deem someone's logic to be flawed when your opinion of best player is someone who hasn't even played a minute on the court.

I think it's easier to spot bad offensive IQs than defensive ones. It means he has a terrible shot selection. It means he stagnates the offense with iso-oriented play. He settles a lot. He makes poor decisions. Some of that is youth, for sure.

I'm not saying he's dumb. That would be unfair. I'm not questioning his humbleness or anything :laugh: I don't know the kid. He could be a genius and the next Mother Theresa. I'm talking basketball. I've seen ~15-20 or so of his games (if I'm not watching the Magic, I'm watching the Knicks if they're on...for a variety of reasons). He's well-rounded, and in spurts he's shown a ton of ability, but as a whole he has a lot to go before I'm crowning him as anything other than Nick Young Jr (who weirdly enough kinda recently has bought into defense). Right now he's a high volume, low efficiency offensive player who is a mess on defense. That's a dime a dozen today.

waveycrockett
03-30-2014, 09:56 PM
Tim Hardaway is having a Marshon Brooks-esque rookie season. Good offensive skillset and the green light by Woodson to play hero ball has allowed him to To go ham on a terrible 2 unit and play thru a lot of mistakes is making him look a lot better than he really is.

koreancabbage
03-30-2014, 11:52 PM
Tim Hardaway is having a Marshon Brooks-esque rookie season. Good offensive skillset and the green light by Woodson to play hero ball has allowed him to To go ham on a terrible 2 unit and play thru a lot of mistakes is making him look a lot better than he really is.

THJ is getting overrated by Knicks fans. that and being "untradeable" at the trade deadline ROFL. get outta here. SMH at its finest. THJ probably won't even see the floor on a good team.

Phenom1
03-31-2014, 12:35 AM
This draft was so bad that I havent seen most of those players you guys mentioned play yet, except MCW, Hardaway and Oladipo haha. But yea its unfair to judge them in one year, let's wait two more years.

dodgersuck
03-31-2014, 01:04 AM
Sixers had the best draft getting MCW where they did AND Noel on top of it. In a terrible draft they found two of the only bright spots

Max.This
03-31-2014, 01:09 AM
THJ is getting overrated by Knicks fans. that and being "untradeable" at the trade deadline ROFL. get outta here. SMH at its finest. THJ probably won't even see the floor on a good team.

At the trade deadline he was leading all rookies in 3 point percentage. Your talking about the trade deadline that few days prior featured a 1 on 1 performance which tim hardaway jr dropped 36 at the rookie sophomore game. No team is going to trade Tim jr at that point especially with the production he gives at a 20 min clip a game on a rookie contract till 2018. If the Raps had him, they wouldn't trade him either so cut ur **** man

therealwd27
03-31-2014, 01:46 AM
Plumlee has been a solid pick. Still a couple years out from knowing who's who but early returns are he's a solid player. Still have to see Noel.

OKC
03-31-2014, 03:10 AM
ill throw in Shabazz as a decent pick.
it seems like every time he gets a chance he does well, I think he could pan out really well in the future.
wolves fans correct me if im wrong.

Rivera
03-31-2014, 03:21 AM
I may be a homer But I see a future star in oladipo! That kid has IT and i saw flashes of greatness this year. He seems to have a good head and a great work ethic

waveycrockett
03-31-2014, 07:53 AM
I may be a homer But I see a future star in oladipo! That kid has IT and i saw flashes of greatness this year. He seems to have a good head and a great work ethic

There are times were you can see Oladipo really looks Westbrook 2.0

FraziersKnicks
03-31-2014, 08:03 AM
There are times were you can see Oladipo really looks Westbrook 2.0

I see more D-Wade in him tbh

MagicBucsSox
03-31-2014, 08:24 AM
Giannis Antetokounmpo

Dude he avg 6ppg get outta here with that crap. 6-7 ppg on the worst team in the game. Bc a lot of ppl think it's Philly no it's the damn bucks.

MagicBucsSox
03-31-2014, 08:26 AM
Sixers had the best draft getting MCW where they did AND Noel on top of it. In a terrible draft they found two of the only bright spots

You've never seen Noel play 1nba second yet he's a bright spot?

waveycrockett
03-31-2014, 08:32 AM
I see more D-Wade in him tbh

yea maybe Wade. Wade always had the post game tho and is a bit bigger it's a decent comparison but anyway Westbrook/Wade I think the kid is going to be a stud.

Rockice_8
03-31-2014, 10:02 AM
Athletic bigs with high BBIQ's like Plumlee are hard to find. Usually it's one or the other. Having KG around is doing wonders for him moving forward. It pretty amazing to see Plumlee at the beginning of the year to now. He still needs another 10 lbs on that frame but I think he can handle it without losing his athleticism.

Plumlee was a big steal for the Nets. He's a solid bench big at worst but looks like he could be a high level role player in the starting lineup for a long time. Needs to get a go to post move as well. He's tried a hook shot a few times and it looks good coming off his hand so it should develop. Kids going to be a very well rounded player moving forward.

Players like THJ (who is a steal as well) are easier to find then good bigs. Edge to Plumlee in terms of draft steal just because he's a true big.

JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2014, 11:32 AM
Ryan Kelly's numbers may be inflated playing on a losing team that is being coached by 'Antoni.

We'll see in years to come, but even so, Kelly is a hindsight thing. Nobody had him going in the first round. Sometimes second-round guys surprise. You can't kick yourself for passing up on somebody like that. Who knew that Rodman would become Rodman?


As for Hardaway, it's apple and oranges. What would you prefer? A forward or a guard? Plumblee is shooting a much higher percentage from the floor and a lower percentage from the line, but he's scoring about as much per36 and eating up a decent number of boards.

Hardway would have been good, but given that they had JJ and The Jet, they likely didn't expect they'd have much need for a back guard, especially wiht Shaun Livingston in the fold.

With an aging Garnett and an injury prone Lopez, Plumblee was a good investment.

mdm692
03-31-2014, 11:45 AM
Archie Goodwin. Projected to go top 10 in this year's class had he stayed in college but Suns took him at 29 at the ripe age of 18.

nycericanguy
03-31-2014, 12:15 PM
I think it's easier to spot bad offensive IQs than defensive ones. It means he has a terrible shot selection. It means he stagnates the offense with iso-oriented play. He settles a lot. He makes poor decisions. Some of that is youth, for sure.

I'm not saying he's dumb. That would be unfair. I'm not questioning his humbleness or anything :laugh: I don't know the kid. He could be a genius and the next Mother Theresa. I'm talking basketball. I've seen ~15-20 or so of his games (if I'm not watching the Magic, I'm watching the Knicks if they're on...for a variety of reasons). He's well-rounded, and in spurts he's shown a ton of ability, but as a whole he has a lot to go before I'm crowning him as anything other than Nick Young Jr (who weirdly enough kinda recently has bought into defense). Right now he's a high volume, low efficiency offensive player who is a mess on defense. That's a dime a dozen today.

THJR isn't "inefficient"... he's giving you 10.1ppg on just 8.4 shot attempts...not great, but certainly not inefficient.

His shooting line is 43/36/82... again... solid and better than most wings taken before him in the draft.

You want to talk about inefficient? MCW - 39/26/69 and almost 4 TO's per game to boot. He does get to the line a good amount which helps, but shooting 69% kind of negates that as well.

THJR isn't a 2 way player, but most rookies aren't... he's shown a strong work ethic, great poise, and basketball in in his blood lines. There's nothing not to like about the kid and he just turned 22.

He has a Klay Thompson/Allan Houston type game to me.

ManRam
03-31-2014, 12:38 PM
THJR isn't "inefficient"... he's giving you 10.1ppg on just 8.4 shot attempts...not great, but certainly not inefficient.

His shooting line is 43/36/82... again... solid and better than most wings taken before him in the draft.

You want to talk about inefficient? MCW - 39/26/69 and almost 4 TO's per game to boot. He does get to the line a good amount which helps, but shooting 69% kind of negates that as well.

THJR isn't a 2 way player, but most rookies aren't... he's shown a strong work ethic, great poise, and basketball in in his blood lines. There's nothing not to like about the kid and he just turned 22.

He has a Klay Thompson/Allan Houston type game to me.

The fundamental difference between MCW and THJ is that MCW is the highest usage player on that team. He runs the offense with little help around him. No rookie is ever going to be even somewhat efficient in that circumstance, especially with the complete void of talent around him. Plus, his scoring ability is low on the list of talents that people expect him to bring to the table. He's going to be a plus passer, defender and rebounder in this league...the scoring will be gravy. Conversely, THJ is a 4th option most times he's on the court. Less pressure, less burden...easier to be efficient.

I will back off a little on his inefficiency, but as a whole I think my point stands. He's a gunner who really only brings streaky-scoring to the table.


I'm not Klay Thompson fan at all, but he's regarded as a very good defender. I haven't seen anyone suggest that THJ is a good defender...or more importantly, even has the upside. Allen Houston is one of the ~30 best 3 point shooters ever...let's ease with that comp too.

Only time will tell if this is just another case of Knicks fans overrating their youth or not.

nycericanguy
03-31-2014, 12:40 PM
The fundamental difference between MCW and THJ is that MCW is the highest usage player on that team. He runs the offense with little help around him. No rookie is ever going to be even somewhat efficient in that circumstance, especially with the complete void of talent around him. Plus, his scoring ability is low on the list of talents that people expect him to bring to the table. He's going to be a plus passer, defender and rebounder in this league...the scoring will be gravy. Conversely, THJ is a 4th option most times he's on the court. Less pressure, less burden...easier to be efficient.

I will back off a little on his inefficiency, but as a whole I think my point stands. He's a gunner who really only brings streaky-scoring to the table.


I'm not Klay Thompson fan at all, but he's regarded as a very good defender. I haven't seen anyone suggest that THJ is a good defender...or more importantly, even has the upside. Allen Houston is one of the ~30 best 3 point shooters ever...let's ease with that comp too.

Only time will tell if this is just another case of Knicks fans overrating their youth or not.

Not overrating him, he reminds me of a young, skinny Allan Houston... whether or not he reaches that level is to be seen. But FWIW he's had a better rookie year than Houston thus far.

As for defense, the size and athletic ability is there, as is the work ethic. There's no reason he can't develop into a good defender... He's a rookie, far from a finished product. And let's be honest, NY's defense as a whole has been a mess this year so it's kind of hard to pick at THJR in that regard.

ManRam
03-31-2014, 01:05 PM
Not overrating him, he reminds me of a young, skinny Allan Houston... whether or not he reaches that level is to be seen. But FWIW he's had a better rookie year than Houston thus far.

As for defense, the size and athletic ability is there, as is the work ethic. There's no reason he can't develop into a good defender... He's a rookie, far from a finished product. And let's be honest, NY's defense as a whole has been a mess this year so it's kind of hard to pick at THJR in that regard.

Houston was BRUTAL as a rookie. His sophomore year he made huge strides. THJ having a better rookie season means nothing if he doesn't take that next step. We'll see :shrug:. But either way, I'm not convinced it's obvious, or even correct, to assume he's been better or will be better than Plumlee. That was my only point, and I pardon for not being more positive when discussing THJ. Defense is definitely hard to project, so again, time will tell. He's athletic enough, probably. I will point out that he doesn't have a ton of length, however.

Kaner
03-31-2014, 02:34 PM
Not on his bandwagon and I still think that it's Giannis, Milwaukee needs some home-run draft picks to have a chance to be elite and Giannis at least has the potential with probably the highest upside in the draft.

If the nets make the finals or conference finals with good play from Plumlee then I might change my mind since they needed the most complete player asap and that's exactly what they've been getting but its redundant if they end up getting eliminated in the first round

JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2014, 05:19 PM
I have been campaigning the Wolves board that we should look to trade Pekovic this summer, and let Dieng start next to Love. Better fit defensively, and Pekovic can get us the desperate wing help/bench help we need.

I'd want to see more from Dieng, but yeah.... working out a package with Pek and maybe even Rubio in a sign-and-trade to bring in a S and PG? I think it is workable.

MagicBucsSox
03-31-2014, 08:32 PM
Not on his bandwagon and I still think that it's Giannis, Milwaukee needs some home-run draft picks to have a chance to be elite and Giannis at least has the potential with probably the highest upside in the draft.

If the nets make the finals or conference finals with good play from Plumlee then I might change my mind since they needed the most complete player asap and that's exactly what they've been getting but its redundant if they end up getting eliminated in the first round

Upside? Based off a 6ppg season? He can't even start on the worst team in the league. "Upside" is the most overused overstated word in sports. Gimme a break

Kaner
03-31-2014, 11:38 PM
Upside? Based off a 6ppg season? He can't even start on the worst team in the league. "Upside" is the most overused overstated word in sports. Gimme a break

No, 'upside' based off he's a (supposedly still growing) 6'11'' sg/sf with a 7'3'' arm span, and crazy athleticism who's just starting to learn the game. He has all the physical tools to be great and supposedly a tremendous work ethic to help get him there. Whether or not he ever lives up to that potential remains to be seen but a potential superstar outside the lottery in a historically weak draft should be the obvious choice for best use of a pick.