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View Full Version : Is it just me or is Scott Brooks a poor coach?



beyourself
03-25-2014, 11:08 PM
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't think he's good. Actually I think he's a lower quality head coach.

P&GRealist
03-25-2014, 11:17 PM
He does suck. He's gone this summer if and when OKC fails to win the title.

CityofChaos
03-25-2014, 11:20 PM
I don't follow the Thunder closely so can someone please tell me why if you think he 'sucks'?

P&GRealist
03-25-2014, 11:23 PM
Poor end game plays, inability to make in game adjustments, poor substitutions, should have eased Westbrook back from injury, should have had him come off the bench initially.

beyourself
03-25-2014, 11:25 PM
Poor end game plays, inability to make in game adjustments, poor substitutions, should have eased Westbrook back from injury, should have had him come off the bench initially.

Agreed. Also lack of fundamentals on defense. No real offensive system.

sunsfan88
03-25-2014, 11:32 PM
He's EXACTLY like Mike Brown. Brown lived off LeBron for all those years in CLE and now Brooks is living off Durant.

DreamShaker
03-25-2014, 11:36 PM
I'm biased because we used to watch him as a family with the Rockets. Everyone on those teams I enjoy seeing do well. As a coach, he is stubborn at times and doesn't make proper adjustments. For one, he plays Perkins even if he's totally costing the team sometimes. The playoffs will be the test, though.

MrfadeawayJB
03-25-2014, 11:39 PM
He's EXACTLY like Mike Brown. Brown lived off LeBron for all those years in CLE and now Brooks is living off Durant.


This sounds right on point to me

Legendary33
03-25-2014, 11:47 PM
Should be noted this post was made right after an OT loss. Not saying your wrong just saying that this argument shouldn't be made the night of a tough loss...

lajoie
03-25-2014, 11:49 PM
He kept playing Perkins in the Miami series. That was pretty funny.

beyourself
03-25-2014, 11:51 PM
Should be noted this post was made right after an OT loss. Not saying your wrong just saying that this argument shouldn't be made the night of a tough loss...

Agreed, but since he's defended pretty intensely by fans and media posting this thread after a blowout win would result in "Come on man GTFO".

So when is the ideal time? There is none.

sens#11fan
03-26-2014, 12:00 AM
I just think he needs to manage his subs better, i don't understand why he plays 3 point guards at once. Derek fisher should not be getting these much minutes and he jacks up dumb 3s. Dirk was posting jackson, fisher, and westbrook all day. On a side note perkins and sefolasha don't get as much credit for there impact on defense.

xabial
03-26-2014, 12:03 AM
Agree with all these points on Scott Brooks.

beyourself
03-26-2014, 12:07 AM
I don't understand how everybody on the team except for true Centers has the license to just jack. It seems if you are a Thunder player 1-4 you can just take the most ridiculous jumpers if you want to. No matter if you are the star or 12th man.

Why is everybody looking to shoot???

I mean what the hell does Ibaka, Butler or Lamb do when they get the ball besides look for their own contested jumper?

RLundi
03-26-2014, 12:57 AM
I actually agree. I've yet to see anything from Brooks that makes me think he's a top coach. He has 2 of the top 10 players in the NBA; at some point he's gonna have to win a championship to keep his seat cool.

JasonJohnHorn
03-26-2014, 08:05 AM
Well... in the context of most Americans, I think Scott Brooks would likely be in the top 5% in terms of how much money he makes, or at least the top ten, but yes, in the context of other professional coaches, I would guess that he's making much less. Phil Jackson was making over 10 mil a year as coach, so in comparison, Scott Brooks could be considered a 'poor coach', but clearly the guy has money.

TheScab
03-26-2014, 08:25 AM
He's the guy at work who dresses like a CEO, has the body language and face of a guy who appears to know what he's doing, however when you break down his body of work, he's nothing special, an underachiever.

beyourself
03-26-2014, 09:30 AM
At what point should he be fired. I mean when Michael Jordan went all those years without a championship they brought in Phil Jackson.

I doubt anybody of Jackson's quality is just lying around, but the point is the same.

You can't just have this talent and continually come up short.

ManRam
03-26-2014, 09:41 AM
I think this is the first year you can really get on the Thunder if they don't win it all, or at least come really close to doing so. The Heat were just better and more experienced in 2011-12. Last year RWB went down. This year I think they have to have championship or bust aspirations.

I have a hard time being absolute in my opinions of coaches who've really only been coaching one team in one circumstance. There's WAY too much we as outsiders are not aware of. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I know enough. You can look at win/losses vs. talent, and come away with a decent picture, but again, there's still way too many unknown variables. We don't know how he is in practices. We don't know how he is in the film room. We don't know how he is in the huddle. We don't know how well his players respond to him. We don't know how much his players listen to or respect him. So on and so on. We know very little.

This thread popped up after a tough loss to Dallas. I'm really not comfortable letting that game spark this debate. Not that it's a new one or anything. But is a Jose Calderon shot really the difference between this discussion being worthwhile or not? Is a bad OT from this season's best player really the difference either? Losses happen. So be it.

They have the second best record in the NBA. They've done a lot of that without their second best player. They've been starting Steven Adams and Andre Roberson recently and frequently. He's getting a ton out of guys most felt were washed up (Butler, Fisher). I don't get why this regular season is the reason this discussion needs to be happening :shrug:


I'd be curious to hear some more tangible explanations as to why he sucks. Aside from record and such.

JasonJohnHorn
03-26-2014, 10:50 AM
At what point should he be fired. I mean when Michael Jordan went all those years without a championship they brought in Phil Jackson.

I doubt anybody of Jackson's quality is just lying around, but the point is the same.

You can't just have this talent and continually come up short.

They didn't bring in Phil Jackson, he was already there, and it wasn't like he was a HOF coach at the time. Jackson didn't do any better his first season with Chicago than Collins did the season before, and he had more players.

And Collins made progress each season. He went from the first to the second to the third round, and that last one after the GM had made some trades that greatly upset the chemistry of the team.



As for the Thunder... it is an unfair comparison. Brooks had Durant, Harden and Westbrook, and got to the finals. No problem. Then the team let go of a franchise player and replaced him with Martin and Westbrook gets injured in the playoffs? A step back could be expected. You wouldn't expect the Bulls to go all the way without Pippen or Rodman. Then they let Martin walk and Westbrook gets injured again, but they still have the second best record in the league?

What more do you want form this guy?


Look... if the front office was willing to pay Harden, and Westy didn't get injured last year, OKC would have won it all easily. Don't put that on Brooks.

KnicksorBust
03-26-2014, 11:03 AM
I think this is the first year you can really get on the Thunder if they don't win it all, or at least come really close to doing so. The Heat were just better and more experienced in 2011-12. Last year RWB went down. This year I think they have to have championship or bust aspirations.

I have a hard time being absolute in my opinions of coaches who've really only been coaching one team in one circumstance. There's WAY too much we as outsiders are not aware of. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I know enough. You can look at win/losses vs. talent, and come away with a decent picture, but again, there's still way too many unknown variables. We don't know how he is in practices. We don't know how he is in the film room. We don't know how he is in the huddle. We don't know how well his players respond to him. We don't know how much his players listen to or respect him. So on and so on. We know very little.

This thread popped up after a tough loss to Dallas. I'm really not comfortable letting that game spark this debate. Not that it's a new one or anything. But is a Jose Calderon shot really the difference between this discussion being worthwhile or not? Is a bad OT from this season's best player really the difference either? Losses happen. So be it.

They have the second best record in the NBA. They've done a lot of that without their second best player. They've been starting Steven Adams and Andre Roberson recently and frequently. He's getting a ton out of guys most felt were washed up (Butler, Fisher). I don't get why this regular season is the reason this discussion needs to be happening :shrug:


I'd be curious to hear some more tangible explanations as to why he sucks. Aside from record and such.

Good post. The tough thing about judging coaches is that two of the most important aspects of a coach's job (game-planning, managing talent) are basically unknown to the general public. We go by word of mouth of journalists or interviews from players. Therefore, we rely heavily on two other important parts of the job: developing talent and in-game adjustments (rotations/subs).

Durant draws a double-team and passes to Westbrook. Westbrook draws the help defender and instead of swinging the ball one more time to the open teammate, takes a contested jump shot. Do you blame Brooks for that? He should have drawn it up so that Durant couldn't doubled? Let Westbrook start with the ball? Westbrook should have passed so poor coaching preparing his players for an end of the game situation?

beyourself
03-26-2014, 12:02 PM
I think this is the first year you can really get on the Thunder if they don't win it all, or at least come really close to doing so. The Heat were just better and more experienced in 2011-12. Last year RWB went down. This year I think they have to have championship or bust aspirations.

I have a hard time being absolute in my opinions of coaches who've really only been coaching one team in one circumstance. There's WAY too much we as outsiders are not aware of. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I know enough. You can look at win/losses vs. talent, and come away with a decent picture, but again, there's still way too many unknown variables. We don't know how he is in practices. We don't know how he is in the film room. We don't know how he is in the huddle. We don't know how well his players respond to him. We don't know how much his players listen to or respect him. So on and so on. We know very little.

This thread popped up after a tough loss to Dallas. I'm really not comfortable letting that game spark this debate. Not that it's a new one or anything. But is a Jose Calderon shot really the difference between this discussion being worthwhile or not? Is a bad OT from this season's best player really the difference either? Losses happen. So be it.

They have the second best record in the NBA. They've done a lot of that without their second best player. They've been starting Steven Adams and Andre Roberson recently and frequently. He's getting a ton out of guys most felt were washed up (Butler, Fisher). I don't get why this regular season is the reason this discussion needs to be happening :shrug:


I'd be curious to hear some more tangible explanations as to why he sucks. Aside from record and such.

Pretty horrible floor spacing because there is nothing inside, let's be real Ibaka is a shooting guard who guards Power Forwards. Doesn't really draw up plays. Overly reliant on Westbrook and Durant to create. Simply cannot draw up a KD game winner. Everybody seems to have a license to jumpshoot. Has not been able to rein in Westbrook and I'm not saying he has to stop shooting, but the guy's USG% shouldn't be increasing every year. Not very good fundamentals on defense. Poor substitutions. His players slack on the defensive end when they feel like it.

I just have this feeling that he's been carried by Durant. Sort of like Mike Brown was in Cleveland with LeBron.

Like I said before there is no right time to create this thread. After a loss or win there will be people saying wait till a loss or a win.

beyourself
03-26-2014, 12:09 PM
Good post. The tough thing about judging coaches is that two of the most important aspects of a coach's job (game-planning, managing talent) are basically unknown to the general public. We go by word of mouth of journalists or interviews from players. Therefore, we rely heavily on two other important parts of the job: developing talent and in-game adjustments (rotations/subs).

Durant draws a double-team and passes to Westbrook. Westbrook draws the help defender and instead of swinging the ball one more time to the open teammate, takes a contested jump shot. Do you blame Brooks for that? He should have drawn it up so that Durant couldn't doubled? Let Westbrook start with the ball? Westbrook should have passed so poor coaching preparing his players for an end of the game situation?

Not if it's an isolated incident, but it's really not. In his 6th year coaching Westbrook, Scott Brooks has never been able rein him in. If Greg Popovich was the coach of the Thunder that would not happen again. I can assure you. With Scott Brooks he simply cannot rein his players in. Sometimes you just have to say calm the hell down son. Make the right play.

Who knows for sure what goes on in the film room. Will Scott Brooks address Westbrooks selfish play last night? I don't know. Even for Westbrook last night was a disaster as far as selfishness goes. I counted at least 2 wide open dunks for his teammates last night, but he drew fouls. Was a complete turnover machine last night at the beginning. If his player's have been unwilling to calm down after years of playing under him some blame must be assigned to him. A lot people want to assign blame to Westrook and Durant for obvious reasons and yes they shoulder some, but the coach is responsible for making the right basketball plays. Execution not so much.

todu82
03-26-2014, 01:09 PM
Yeah I think if the Thunder fail to make the finals/win title this year Brooks is gone in favour of a coach that could get more out of the team.

Guppyfighter
03-26-2014, 04:01 PM
They rely on athleticism and have no real system in place. They aren't great defensively because of good fundamentals, but because they are faster and lengthier than the other teams. I constantly see bad gambles and ****** rotations, but it doesn't matter because they are athletic as all hell. You give Pops this team and they probably have a +8 differential.

ManRam
03-26-2014, 04:16 PM
He's "failed to rein in Westbrook" or whatever...but the offense has been the best in the league over the last 3 seasons. So...I mean....it's not hurting the offense as a whole. Game to game Westbrook might take a few bad shots (the whole notion of him ruining things is ridiculously stupid) and every once in a while they'll be costly, but the offense as a whole has been wildly effective :shrug: There have always been players whose poor offensive IQs have been uncoachable...even under some of the all time greats. It happens. These are coaches, not mind-controllers.


And we're already setting up benchmarks to decide whether or not he's a good coach. Like: they must make/win the Finals. That's arbitrary. What if KD has an awful series? What if Westbrook gets hurt again? I don't like these absolutes to determine whether or not a coach is good. Again, there are WAY too many variables involved.

beyourself
03-26-2014, 04:17 PM
Bringing Westbrook in last night late in overtime even though he's on a minutes restricition was really desperate.

Westbrook and Durant are the only 2 players who create their own shots. When Westbrook isn't in the game Brook's gameplan is somebody dribbles around, (usually Durant) and somehow score. Forget actually drawing up a play or having an offensive system. And when Durant is heavily double teamed just let him pass out of it for a teammates contested jumper.

I can't take this guy seriously. His gameplan is just Kevin, Russell........ go score.

ManRam
03-26-2014, 04:53 PM
Bringing Westbrook in last night late in overtime even though he's on a minutes restricition was really desperate.

Westbrook and Durant are the only 2 players who create their own shots. When Westbrook isn't in the game Brook's gameplan is somebody dribbles around, (usually Durant) and somehow score. Forget actually drawing up a play or having an offensive system. And when Durant is heavily double teamed just let him pass out of it for a teammates contested jumper.

I can't take this guy seriously. His gameplan is just Kevin, Russell........ go score.

Well, they're the only two guys who can create a shot, so what do you expect? THat's also why I think the "reign Russell in!" stuff is overplayed. He's gotta be the clear #2 option. Not a #1, but #2. And again, he's been at the helm of the league's best offense. So, even if we wanna be nit-picky, the offense is still working more than great.


And, playing into my first point...we don't know what "plays" he's drawing up. We don't know when he's doing it...how often he's doing it...how complex they are...or whatever. And, most people have selective memories so they forget the good and remember only the bad. There are too many unknowns and I think being an armchair coach like this often is a pointless thing to be. We just don't know enough :shrug: And he's had PLENTY of success as a coach.

tredigs
03-26-2014, 05:13 PM
Well, they're the only two guys who can create a shot, so what do you expect? THat's also why I think the "reign Russell in!" stuff is overplayed. He's gotta be the clear #2 option. Not a #1, but #2. And again, he's been at the helm of the league's best offense. So, even if we wanna be nit-picky, the offense is still working more than great.


And, playing into my first point...we don't know what "plays" he's drawing up. We don't know when he's doing it...how often he's doing it...how complex they are...or whatever. And, most people have selective memories so they forget the good and remember only the bad. There are too many unknowns and I think being an armchair coach like this often is a pointless thing to be. We just don't know enough :shrug: And he's had PLENTY of success as a coach.
Russ sees himself as the co-#1 option alongside KD though, and averaged more attempts than him last year. That's where you need a strong coach to set the boundaries for his players and get them to run the most efficient offensive system they can. And with Westbrook recovering or playing hurt while being thrust back into the offense as much as he has this year, it's more important than ever for that to happen. But for the most part, it isn't. And that's one reason why we are seeing OKC struggle a bit adjusting to his returns and lack of efficiency. I agree that being an armchair coach in threads like these is pretty ridiculous as there are so many intangibles we just aren't privy to, and that there's not much to argue seeing as they were already the top offense (could always extend that difference, though).

That said, I cringe at many things Scott Brooks. Namely their offensive sets late in games, post timeout plays and his timeout pep talks. Without being in their locker room or practices none of us can say for sure how good one coach or another actually is, but I've always tended to think Brooks was on the much weaker side of NBA head coaches.

JohnStockton
03-26-2014, 05:46 PM
I can't say that Brooks is a great coach, but I think we can say that he is a good coach at the very least.

A team without a center and lacking depth can't win as many games as Brooks has won without a good coach at the helm. Look at the supporting cast that Melo had, and he never won as many games as Durant and the Thunder are winning this season.

Westbrook has been out, they lost Harden and then Martin, without much coming back to replace them, and they are still an elite team. That is impressive. Losing Westbrook in the post season was rough last year.

A lot of credit should go to just how good Durant has been, because he has been amazing. But Brooks deserves some love there too.

I haven't seen a lot of close playoff games with the Thunder. They've won when they were playing inferior teams and lost when they played better teams. What more can you expect a coach to do? If I see the Thundr lose a few close games that are decided by a play or a call toward the end of the game, like last season when Pop and Vogel both took out important front court players on plays where the Heat got offensive rebounds to win the game, or he draws up bad plays.... then ok... but I haven't seen much of that.