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View Full Version : The worst teams for turning the ball over, will it impact the playoffs? Surprised?



Goose17
03-24-2014, 01:32 PM
Just wondering what people think of this.

The bottom teams in turnover ratio (the percentage of a team's possessions that end in a turnover) are as follows;

Worst in the league #1 - Houston
Second worst #2 - Philly
#3 - Miami
#4 - Chicago
#5 - OKC
#6 Indiana


The interesting thing is OKC, Miami and Indiana are considered contenders, Houston to a lesser extent (probably due to it being the first year with this particular core and being in the tougher conference).

So do you think that this will, in any way, impact the playoffs? I mean for Miami I don't see it as much of an issue until the actual final and they force a lot of turnovers as well, so without looking at the numbers I figure it nearly balances itself out.

But for OKC, it could be an issue right? I mean they'll be playing against teams that are exceptional at forcing turnovers, Dallas, Clippers, Phoenix and Golden State are all in the top 10 for opponent turnovers per game, at least three of those teams is making the playoffs. In fact, Dallas is third in steals, Clippers are tied for fourth.



So first of all do you think any of this will matter come playoff time? Do you think these teams will tighten up or do you think the turnovers are irrelevant? I mean they've all done pretty well despite turning the ball over so much. A lot of it will come with the style they play with as well obviously.

And are you surprised to see any of these teams turning the ball over so much?

Slug3
03-24-2014, 01:52 PM
Just so people know he used turnover % and not actual turnovers per game. Will be a difference.

Goose17
03-24-2014, 02:02 PM
Just so people know he used turnover % and not actual turnovers per game. Will be a difference.

Thought I made that clear? Guess not. Thanks.

flea
03-24-2014, 02:03 PM
Turnover rates can be bad, but not necessarily. Turnover differential would be more worrisome, and since the Heat's defense is predicated on turnovers I wouldn't worry too much about theirs on the offensive end - so long as the defense is working.

FOBolous
03-24-2014, 02:17 PM
this is a troll thread created for a Warriors fan to bait Rockets fans. The creator of this thread has admitted before that he has trolled Rockets fans and he enjoyed it. Plus we have enough Rockets fans vs Warriors fans thread.....so close this thread.

KnicksorBust
03-24-2014, 02:26 PM
I'm assuming that these teams are higher in turnover % because they attack the basket more and draw more fouls. If you are constantly trying to get to the charity stripe and put the other team in foul trouble then you are more likely to be stripped or double teamed. I would be willing to concede an extra 2 turnovers per game if that means that my best players (Harden-LeBron-Durant-etc.) are attacking the basket all game instead of settling for mid-range shots.

Slug3
03-24-2014, 02:27 PM
Thought I made that clear? Guess not. Thanks.

This is PSD. You can never be clear enough.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2014, 02:47 PM
this is a troll thread created for a Warriors fan to bait Rockets fans. The creator of this thread has admitted before that he has trolled Rockets fans and he enjoyed it. Plus we have enough Rockets fans vs Warriors fans thread.....so close this thread.

Doubt it. But dude, as a Rox fan, you have to agree. Howard and Harden have so many stupid turnovers at times, its ridiculous. If they were to clean that up, I think the Rox are a legit contender.

flea
03-24-2014, 02:49 PM
Dwight has been turnover prone his whole career. I don't see him ever cleaning it up, you just have to take the good with the bad.

Chronz
03-24-2014, 03:02 PM
Im curious to see how these players/teams fair with turnovers in close game situations, I know I've seen Curry with alot of late game turnovers this season, wouldn't be surprised if he ranks highly there.

In some ways, it might be a good thing to be turnover prone because I feel like all teams take care of the ball more come playoffs, teams that rely on getting steals for stops have a harder time defending come post season IMO. Could be totally wrong tho, would make for a good project.

sunsfan88
03-24-2014, 03:06 PM
Its interesting that Chicago and Indiana are on that list. All the other teams run fast paced offenses so the turnovers aren't surprising. But both Chicago and Indiana run pretty slow, boring offenses so I wouldn't have expected them to be even top 15 unless they are really that incompetent offensively.

NYKNYGNYY
03-24-2014, 03:10 PM
Wow was not expecting that

Hawkeye15
03-24-2014, 03:15 PM
Im curious to see how these players/teams fair with turnovers in close game situations, I know I've seen Curry with alot of late game turnovers this season, wouldn't be surprised if he ranks highly there.

In some ways, it might be a good thing to be turnover prone because I feel like all teams take care of the ball more come playoffs, teams that rely on getting steals for stops have a harder time defending come post season IMO. Could be totally wrong tho, would make for a good project.

For experienced teams, I would agree. For younger teams, I wouldn't.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2014, 03:16 PM
btw, Miami might be #3 in turnover %, but they are also #1 in forcing turnovers.

Goose17
03-24-2014, 03:44 PM
this is a troll thread created for a Warriors fan to bait Rockets fans. The creator of this thread has admitted before that he has trolled Rockets fans and he enjoyed it. Plus we have enough Rockets fans vs Warriors fans thread.....so close this thread.

This is 100% not a troll thread. If it was I would have used the MintGorilla tag. Come on now, you know damn well that was a joke. And you're the biggest troll on this forum, so hold your tongue.

Amazing how defensive Houston fans are though, it's a fact that your team is awful for turning the ball over, just accept it, every team has it's flaws, it's not a troll, it's just the truth.

And I only mentioned Houston in passing, I was focusing more on OKC and Miami etc



This is PSD. You can never be clear enough.

LOL, I'll remember that.



Its interesting that Chicago and Indiana are on that list. All the other teams run fast paced offenses so the turnovers aren't surprising. But both Chicago and Indiana run pretty slow, boring offenses so I wouldn't have expected them to be even top 15 unless they are really that incompetent offensively.

I was VERY surprised with Chicago. Like you say, with the fast paced offense some teams use you would expect a high turnover rate, but with Chicago? It's strange.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2014, 03:46 PM
This is 100% not a troll thread. If it was I would have used the MintGorilla tag. Come on now, you know damn well that was a joke. And you're the biggest troll on this forum, so hold your tongue.

Amazing how defensive Houston fans are though, it's a fact that your team is awful for turning the ball over, just accept it, every team has it's flaws, it's not a troll, it's just the truth.

And I only mentioned Houston in passing, I was focusing more on OKC and Miami etc




LOL, I'll remember that.




I was VERY surprised with Chicago. Like you say, with the fast paced offense some teams use you would expect a high turnover rate, but with Chicago? It's strange.

The Bulls main ball handlers all had very high turnover rates this season for some reason. Even Noah is turning it over nearly 1/5 trips down he plays.

torocan
03-24-2014, 03:46 PM
Its interesting that Chicago and Indiana are on that list. All the other teams run fast paced offenses so the turnovers aren't surprising. But both Chicago and Indiana run pretty slow, boring offenses so I wouldn't have expected them to be even top 15 unless they are really that incompetent offensively.

Houston, Miami and OKC push the ball in transition, as well as drive to the paint fairly frequently. This makes them more vulnerable to turnovers. This is aside from Dwight being prone to being stripped when he's under pressure from double teams.

Indiana and the Bulls just have massive talent problems offensively. Strong defensive teams, but limited offensively in terms of skill sets. The Bulls *TRY* to run good offensive sets (and are even trying to do some of the Spurs' sets), and they pass a lot, but they're really not very good at it right now outside of Noah.

Will it hurt them come the play offs? I think it hurts Houston more than OKC or Miami. Houston is still crazy young (4th youngest in the NBA) and inexperienced as a team.

As for Indiana and the Bulls, it hurts them but their smothering defense makes up for a lot.

tredigs
03-24-2014, 04:03 PM
It's interesting that Minnesota leads the league in both Turnover differential (Houston still being last here as they don't force many turnovers) and FT shooting differential (this is where the Rox come to play as well...).

Surprised GS is not higher on the turnover scale. It's been an issue for them in many key moments this season.

Goose17
03-24-2014, 04:05 PM
Surprised GS is not higher on the turnover scale. It's been an issue for them in many key moments this season.

They were for a while, but the improvements to the bench and Curry playing a little smarter has gone a long way to repairing that.

nastynice
03-24-2014, 04:14 PM
As a warriors fan, I am honestly shocked that the warriors aren't worst in the league when it comes to turnovers. I seriously thought we were the sloppiest team in the league when it came to that. And if I'm this surprised that we aren't #1, you can imagine how surprised I am that we're not even in the top 5 :speechless::speechless:

DreamShaker
03-24-2014, 04:17 PM
Doubt it. But dude, as a Rox fan, you have to agree. Howard and Harden have so many stupid turnovers at times, its ridiculous. If they were to clean that up, I think the Rox are a legit contender.

Jeremy Lin is offended you failed to mention him.

torocan
03-24-2014, 04:20 PM
As a warriors fan, I am honestly shocked that the warriors aren't worst in the league when it comes to turnovers. I seriously thought we were the sloppiest team in the league when it came to that. And if I'm this surprised that we aren't #1, you can imagine how surprised I am that we're not even in the top 5 :speechless::speechless:

Keep in mind that Turnovers are a generic term which can mean any of a number of ways of losing possession. A turnover when driving is different than a turnover on an inside pass, which is different than a turnover in transition, which is different than turnovers due to shot clock violations or offensive fouls.

So it's very possible that GSW is #1 in some types of turnovers, we just don't know unless someone cares to extract the data.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2014, 04:28 PM
Jeremy Lin is offended you failed to mention him.

touche

Hawkeye15
03-24-2014, 04:29 PM
It's interesting that Minnesota leads the league in both Turnover differential (Houston still being last here as they don't force many turnovers) and FT shooting differential (this is where the Rox come to play as well...).

Surprised GS is not higher on the turnover scale. It's been an issue for them in many key moments this season.

dude, look at our expected W/L record. We will pass the 01' Rox as the lottery team with the highest win margin since the ABA/NBA merger to miss the playoffs.

Long story short, we will be the best non-playoff team ever by statistical standards.

So much awesomeness...

tredigs
03-24-2014, 04:33 PM
Keep in mind that Turnovers are a generic term which can mean any of a number of ways of losing possession. A turnover when driving is different than a turnover on an inside pass, which is different than a turnover in transition, which is different than turnovers due to shot clock violations or offensive fouls.

So it's very possible that GSW is #1 in some types of turnovers, we just don't know unless someone cares to extract the data.
Obviously It's just going to depend on what players you have that are causing the turnovers. With Houston, Dwight's going to be turning it over via an offensive foul just as often as it is just him losing the ball or having a bad pass, but Harden and Lin are going to be making bad passes for the majority of their TO's. Same goes for Curry on Golden State. With a guy like Durant I'm willing to bet half his turnovers are just him losing the ball off the dribble (which actually is probably the most likely to result in 2 points the other way over something like an intercepted entry pass and definitely over a charge). For Westbrook, I bet he generates an inordinate amount of charges for a guard, but the bulk of his TO's will be bad passes like most guards.

But yeah, as far as turnovers go I'd rate them best to worst as Charges>bad passes>lost balls (aka steals for the other team often resulting in fast breaks).

Goose17
03-24-2014, 05:58 PM
On my phone so I can't look it up but assist:bad pass ratios for teams are readily available. I'm not aware of a site that categorises turnovers for entire teams though (I know 82games does it for individuals)

JasonJohnHorn
03-25-2014, 06:31 AM
Doubt it. But dude, as a Rox fan, you have to agree. Howard and Harden have so many stupid turnovers at times, its ridiculous. If they were to clean that up, I think the Rox are a legit contender.

Harden's turnovers I can almost forgive because he's a SG and the coach turns him into a playmaker (which is the reason Pop doesn't like to run plays through Manu so much), but Howard... I mean, he's not even getting assists. Harden is at least making plays, so he might the the ball over going one-on-one, or making a play, where as Dwight is just turning the ball over... argh!



GO SPURS!!!!

goingfor28
03-25-2014, 08:36 AM
Definitely interesting. Would not have expected that many top teams worth such a high %

Blitzbolt
03-25-2014, 11:15 AM
This is one of the reasons I don"t want the grizzlies playing SAS in the first round.

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 11:47 AM
Personally, I think it's irrelevant. Obviously you want to avoid turnovers, but the three contending teams at the top of that list are all extremely efficient offensive teams that rank among the top 7 in the league in offensive efficiency. Hell, the three teams with the lowest turnover ratio are freaking Minnesota, Charlotte and New York. Would you rather have those offenses or Miami, Houston or OKC's offenses?

I'd be more concerned if I were a team like, I dunno, Golden State, that boasts a relatively high TO ratio AND isn't particularly efficient offensively. ;)

Chronz
03-25-2014, 12:16 PM
Harden's turnovers I can almost forgive because he's a SG and the coach turns him into a playmaker (which is the reason Pop doesn't like to run plays through Manu so much)
What? Pop has basically had Manu as his backup PG over the years and hes a superb passer. Dafuq?