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P&GRealist
03-23-2014, 05:20 PM
I thought this kid was going to catapult himself into superstardom.

Have you ever seen such a massive drop off in production from start of season to now the way we've seen Paul George basically collapse?

BenFrank
03-23-2014, 05:34 PM
And a high % of people was saying he was better than James Harden.... NOPE!!!

Goose17
03-23-2014, 05:39 PM
And a high % of people was saying he was better than James Harden.... NOPE!!!

Defensively he's worth ten of Harden. Shame about the offense.


Good to see someone on here calling George out though by making this thread, if it was LBJ or Durant who fell off like this you would never hear the end of it, nobody seems to hold George too the same expectations though.

meloman1592
03-23-2014, 05:41 PM
Glad someone acknowledged it

JasonJohnHorn
03-23-2014, 05:42 PM
It was his performance in the playoffs last year. He played great basketball and took it up a level, and I think people expected that to carry over to this season.

And he has improved this year, no doubt, but I think people want to see him scoring 25 a game, and he's just not going to do that because that is not how the Pacers run their offense. Everybody gets time with the ball, like with the Spurs (though the style may differ). Pacers play team ball. You put Melo on that team, and his average is going to drop.


I think Paul is expected to focus on defense, and the Pacers have encouraged the development of Stephenson, which has reduced the increase in PG's averages. This is similar to Granger getting to a certain level and then regressing a bit when the Pacers started to develop PG. It is good for the team.

They have the best record in the east right now, despite a slip in play, and PG's had a bad couple of games over the last couple of nights, but overall he is having a great year.

BenFrank
03-23-2014, 05:43 PM
Defensively he's worth ten of Harden. Shame about the offense.


Good to see someone on here calling George out though by making this thread, if it was LBJ or Durant who fell off like this you would never hear the end of it, nobody seems to hold George too the same expectations though.

Harden defense has gotten better as the season has went on, its not as bad as it once was.. but people who don't watch Rockets game will assume he's a poor defender just because of his reputation, but lets not act like Curry is a outstanding defender either... if he's worth 10 of Harden of defense then that same argument can be made for Curry

DillyDill
03-23-2014, 05:43 PM
I'm thinking it's the off the court stuff getting to his head, with the baby momma drama and now getting catfished.

JasonJohnHorn
03-23-2014, 05:44 PM
nobody seems to hold George too the same expectations though.

I think the obvious reason for that is because he simply isn't in their category. PG may be top five at his position, but he isn't even top-ten in the league, and LBJ and KD are the two best players on the planet.

blastmasta26
03-23-2014, 05:45 PM
He got off to a good start and some people were elevating him to almost elite status. He's regressed since then noticeably.

OKC
03-23-2014, 05:46 PM
doesn't matter.
we will see what he can do in the playoff.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 05:59 PM
Breeding the stripper and sending dick pics have made him suck

Hawkeye15
03-23-2014, 06:01 PM
And a high % of people was saying he was better than James Harden.... NOPE!!!

I would take him over Harden, simply because as good as Harden is offensively, he is that bad defensively.

But I did think those that were trying to put PG on LeBron/Durant level early on were being ridiculous. He is a 2nd tier star at best right now.

Asik's better
03-23-2014, 06:03 PM
I see PG as a play-off player. We just have to wait to see what PG and the pacers do in the play-offs.

Hawkeye15
03-23-2014, 06:03 PM
Harden defense has gotten better as the season has went on, its not as bad as it once was.. but people who don't watch Rockets game will assume he's a poor defender just because of his reputation, but lets not act like Curry is a outstanding defender either... if he's worth 10 of Harden of defense then that same argument can be made for Curry

why bring Curry into this?

Harden is a poor defender. Period. I have watched the Rox play 30 times this year. His biggest issue that I see is, he has poor defensive awareness. And he just isn't quick enough with his feet to stop blow by's.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-23-2014, 06:11 PM
22/7/4 and 1st seed in the east is really dissapointing.













LMFAO :laugh::laugh:

NoahH
03-23-2014, 06:12 PM
And people said LeBron-Durant-PG were in an elite group together :laugh:

BenFrank
03-23-2014, 06:24 PM
why bring Curry into this?

Harden is a poor defender. Period. I have watched the Rox play 30 times this year. His biggest issue that I see is, he has poor defensive awareness. And he just isn't quick enough with his feet to stop blow by's.

I was clearly responding to a Warriors fan, but I'm not here to start a Warriors/Rockets thread, we have enough of those, and I guess we can agree to disagree.. as I stand by what I said that Harden has gotten better as a defender, but can he get better? yes he can.. I feel like people put him under this label as a bad defender and don't know how to give credit when he has gotten better, but that's for another thread, and I would take Harden over George no question.. but just me though :shrug:

Hawkeye15
03-23-2014, 06:31 PM
I was clearly responding to a Warriors fan, but I'm not here to start a Warriors/Rockets thread, we have enough of those, and I guess we can agree to disagree.. as I stand by what I said that Harden has gotten better as a defender, but can he get better? yes he can.. I feel like people put him under this label as a bad defender and don't know how to give credit when he has gotten better, but that's for another thread, and I would take Harden over George no question.. but just me though :shrug:

he has gotten better, in that he was downright awful last season. I actually think he is a better defender down low than out top. He just doesn't have great defensive awareness.

For that reason, I am taking PG over Harden. PG is a lock down defender, an excellent team defender, and is still good offensively, even if he isn't on Harden's level. He is also younger, bigger, and more athletic.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-23-2014, 06:39 PM
I think people were expecting way too much out of him this season. Give it some time. He's still an all-star caliber player.

BoSox47
03-23-2014, 06:57 PM
Harden defense has gotten better as the season has went on, its not as bad as it once was.. but people who don't watch Rockets game will assume he's a poor defender just because of his reputation, but lets not act like Curry is a outstanding defender either... if he's worth 10 of Harden of defense then that same argument can be made for Curry

Ive seen roughly 10 rockets games this year and Hardens defense is pretty bad. Definitely a below average defender, but yes currys defense is not good at all either.

bucketss
03-23-2014, 07:04 PM
nickdymez said george and lebron are on the same level lol.

albertajaysfan
03-23-2014, 07:13 PM
It was his performance in the playoffs last year. He played great basketball and took it up a level, and I think people expected that to carry over to this season.

And he has improved this year, no doubt, but I think people want to see him scoring 25 a game, and he's just not going to do that because that is not how the Pacers run their offense. Everybody gets time with the ball, like with the Spurs (though the style may differ). Pacers play team ball. You put Melo on that team, and his average is going to drop.


I think Paul is expected to focus on defense, and the Pacers have encouraged the development of Stephenson, which has reduced the increase in PG's averages. This is similar to Granger getting to a certain level and then regressing a bit when the Pacers started to develop PG. It is good for the team.

They have the best record in the east right now, despite a slip in play, and PG's had a bad couple of games over the last couple of nights, but overall he is having a great year.

It isn't the averages that are concerning. It is the duds %wise he has been putting up over the last little while.

abe_froman
03-23-2014, 07:19 PM
I think people were expecting way too much out of him this season. Give it some time. He's still an all-star caliber player.
this.
i dunno what you people were expecting,but he's been a damn good player.you guys always get call anyone who isnt kd or lebron as overrated,get all upset that not every guy is.

koreancabbage
03-23-2014, 07:23 PM
22/7/4 and 1st seed in the east is really dissapointing.

LMFAO :laugh::laugh:

many people thought he would take off to be one of the game's next superstars.

well Indiana is a team based more than individuals. George is good but not 'he's the best' good. Its all about team defense for them and good coaching. George however still is young and doesn't have that many responsibilities as other star players or superstar players. he doesn't need to feel the need to take over games. He can quietly sit back and let his veteran leader in West be their emotional leader while he just takes wide open jumpers all day long because of Indiana's size advantage.

Storch
03-23-2014, 07:51 PM
I don't care if PG even were be averaging low numbers, but as long as he's an integral part of a winning team he's doing it right in my book.

NBA_Starter
03-23-2014, 08:00 PM
He is not overrated to me because I was never that big on him.

chi-townlove1
03-23-2014, 08:56 PM
Lmao let the haters rise from the ashes. Unbelievable. His stats are still awesome. Yes he IS A TOP 10 player in the league. No he's not Lebron or durant but arguably the next best wing player. His defense is basically better than anyone's in the league and yes his offense has fallen off a bit. But all you idiots on psd, let's wait to judge before you see him perform in the playoffs, since that's all you ever judge players off of.

Shame so many of you are so ignorant. /thread

ghettosean
03-23-2014, 09:02 PM
Breeding the stripper and sending dick pics have made him suck

Not many people are putting this together but this is the reason for his drop in play.

Trwood12
03-23-2014, 09:13 PM
Outside drama is keeping his focus out of the game. At least that's my theory for his inconsistency.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-23-2014, 09:24 PM
Outside drama is keeping his focus out of the game. At least that's my theory for his inconsistency.

http://www.complexmag.ca/sports/2014/03/paul-george-catfished-gay-man

sunsfan88
03-23-2014, 09:32 PM
Harden defense has gotten better as the season has went on, its not as bad as it once was.. but people who don't watch Rockets game will assume he's a poor defender just because of his reputation, but lets not act like Curry is a outstanding defender either... if he's worth 10 of Harden of defense then that same argument can be made for Curry
Curry is a PG. Most PGs in the league aren't good defensively. No matter what, they will likely give up a ton of points to the opposing PG cause the PGs in the league now are so good.

Different story for SGs...

bucketss
03-23-2014, 09:35 PM
Breeding the stripper and sending dick pics have made him suck

the dick pics to a catfish who was acutely a man lol.

ricky recon
03-23-2014, 09:38 PM
22/7/4, 20.5 PER, .193 WS, whilst being an elite defender.

Phenomenal player, has improved greatly from last year. Don't understand where you are coming from.

NBA_Starter
03-23-2014, 10:39 PM
the dick pics to a catfish who was acutely a man lol.

bah, that will curse a playa for sure.

xxcubs22xx
03-23-2014, 11:14 PM
I'm kind of shocked that people consider Paul George a disappointment let alone the Biggest Disappointment. lmao wow. I don't see why any fan of PG should be disappointed right now lol

albertajaysfan
03-23-2014, 11:22 PM
I'm kind of shocked that people consider Paul George a disappointment let alone the Biggest Disappointment. lmao wow. I don't see why any fan of PG should be disappointed right now lol

I think the honour has to go to JR Smith for biggest disappointment.

FriedTofuz
03-23-2014, 11:56 PM
The biggest disappointment has got to be the knicks. Dolan thought he was getting a ship this year :laugh2:

NYKNYGNYY
03-24-2014, 12:03 AM
Contenders ... Only teams I can really see beating them are the spurs heat and maybe just maybe the thunder depending if they will have Westbrook

NYKNYGNYY
03-24-2014, 12:04 AM
Whoops wrong thread
^

NYKNYGNYY
03-24-2014, 12:05 AM
But I agree with jr at least Paul George is still a top player

Chronz
03-24-2014, 12:08 AM
It was his performance in the playoffs last year. He played great basketball and took it up a level, and I think people expected that to carry over to this season.
The funny thing being, his stats from this year are far superior to what he did in the post season. Most people isolate the Heat series, and even those numbers are on par with this year. I think its mostly the unprecedented leap he was making to start the year that has let people down. Hes entered a legitimate Star level, when some were hoping for the elite franchise changer he looked like early on. Manram was steadfast in his refusal to buy the hype, and with the flukish midrange shooting numbers he was posting, it was easy to see why. Guys who are hot with off the dribble midrange shots inevitably crash down to earth (J-Lin calling).


And he has improved this year, no doubt, but I think people want to see him scoring 25 a game, and he's just not going to do that because that is not how the Pacers run their offense. Everybody gets time with the ball, like with the Spurs (though the style may differ). Pacers play team ball. You put Melo on that team, and his average is going to drop.
Pacers dont run there offense that way in part because they know he cant provide the kind of consistency necessary, all you have to look at is how effective the Pacers were with PG scoring at a Melo like level, Melo in that offense would still be more efficient/prolific. I agree he has improved, but hes long struggled with his consistency.



I think Paul is expected to focus on defense, and the Pacers have encouraged the development of Stephenson, which has reduced the increase in PG's averages. This is similar to Granger getting to a certain level and then regressing a bit when the Pacers started to develop PG. It is good for the team.
From what I understand, the Pacers have unleashed Stephenson on both ends, I dont know if hes the primary stopper but I feel like he has worked harder defensively than PG, if Im wrong, at the very least he has lightened PG's defensive responsibility some.

But I'm not seeing the correlation to Granger, injuries are why he declined, before that they complimented each other nicely (IIRC both were actually more productive together). Now there is some truth in statistical overlap, but in this situation, I think you overestimate its influence and are giving PG a copout that doesn't exonerate his relatively low level of efficiency. Playing with more help tends to help you out in that area, that PG is actually increasing his usage this year while posting higher efficiency marks are a testament to both his improvement and his teammates helping his development IMO.

sens#11fan
03-24-2014, 12:36 AM
He is a great player but people are just over hyping him. I don't think he is a top 5 player, more like 6-10. He doesn't have as great as a passing ability as lebron or Kd and he doesn't have as good as handles as them. I don't expect PG to pull in great offensive numbers on a daily basis, considering, he is an elite defender and expends his energy on that side of the floor. Needless to say he is still an amazing player, with a lot of potential.

Goose17
03-24-2014, 03:10 AM
Harden defense has gotten better as the season has went on, its not as bad as it once was.. but people who don't watch Rockets game will assume he's a poor defender just because of his reputation, but lets not act like Curry is a outstanding defender either... if he's worth 10 of Harden of defense then that same argument can be made for Curry

Lol what does Curry have to do with anything? You were comparing Harden and George, Curry has nothing to do with it. He doesn't even play the same position as those two :/

I watch Houston games. Harden is an above average defender, nothing more.

PurpleLynch
03-24-2014, 08:09 AM
I absolutely disagree. While he was overhyped when people compared him to KD or LBJ,he's still an excellent player. His defense is awesome and he's good on offense.Also,Pacers system(like Spurs one imo)doesn't focus on 2 or three players like a lot of contending teams (See Thunder,Miami etc). People just like bashing Pacers players(Hibbert before him)just because they don't have the stats sheet of other players.The answer is:they don't need this kind of player to run their system. Matter of fact Spurs and Pacers are 1st in their respective conferences.

Chrisclover
03-24-2014, 08:09 AM
I'm kind of shocked that people consider Paul George a disappointment let alone the Biggest Disappointment. lmao wow. I don't see why any fan of PG should be disappointed right now lol
They think he shall have more points and bigger impact on the court while cutting down his off court sexual scandals

waveycrockett
03-24-2014, 08:22 AM
He was an a top-5 MVP candidate for the first 3 months of the season. Hardly a disappointment

Tony_Starks
03-24-2014, 02:00 PM
You guys do realize there are two sides of the floor right? Please tell me another lock up wing defender that's still dropping 20+ on a bad night.

He's basically the play defense every night version of Melo.

Supreme LA
03-25-2014, 05:19 AM
And a high % of people was saying he was better than James Harden.... NOPE!!!

Uhh...he's still plenty better than Harden.

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 05:32 AM
It's worth mentioning the huge drop off in his statistical production, but I don't know that it's fair yet to say he's the biggest disappointment of 2013-14. The playoffs haven't started, and that's where he can really shine if he wants to gain some respect. Also, he has the Pacers sitting at first in the East, and I'm sure we could come up with a handful of well more deserving candidates for "Biggest disappointment of the year" award than Paul George.

If we're talking disappointments, how about the play of veterans like Rajon Rondo, Josh Smith and Deron Williams in the East? Or just the general sucktitude that has been the New York Knicks this season pretty much from everyone other than Melo and Hardaway Jr.? Or we could look at how injuries have cut short the seasons of some of the league's best players, including Horford, Rose, Kobe and Lopez. Or we could talk about how some young talent just has not panned out whatsoever, including the absolute abomination that has been Anthony Bennett, the poor showing of this rookie class, some sophomores who haven't quite figured it out yet (MKG and Barnes come to mind) and Ricky Rubio, who we keep waiting to see break out, but may never happen.

Bottom line, the dropoff in George's production has been significant and is totally thread worthy, but to call him the biggest disappointment of the season is totally unfair at this point. The season's not over and there are a ton of players and teams more deserving of that criticism than George.

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 05:34 AM
Uhh...he's still plenty better than Harden.

Advanced stats and the eye test lately would disagree with you. What Harden has done the last couple of months is beyond George's ability. Sure, George is a superior defensive player, but Harden's defense isn't nearly the black hole everyone is making it out to be, and he provides more value to Houston than George does to Indiana.

Hawkeye15
03-25-2014, 08:13 AM
22/7/4, 20.5 PER, .193 WS, whilst being an elite defender.

Phenomenal player, has improved greatly from last year. Don't understand where you are coming from.

he was actually being talked about as a serious MVP candidate early, and many in the media/fan bases were talking about him challenging Durant/LeBron. In that regard, he was being seriously overrated, and many here, and elsewhere, were calling him out for that.

Now, if you viewed him as a 2-3rd tier star, then you rated him just fine. Problem is, a whole lot of people hopped on the, "he is elite" bandwagon.

Excellent player. Probably will be a top 10 player through his peak, for sure. But c'mon, don't tell me this guy is on Durant/LeBron level. He probably never will be.

mjm07
03-25-2014, 08:38 AM
He's in no way a dissapointment. Id defintely take him over Harden but he isn't even close to the LBJ/Durant level as most PG fans were stating a cple months back.

Walt
03-25-2014, 09:11 AM
Not to make excuses, but ever since that whole Doc Rivers daughter drama, he's slipped. Now he has this catfish thing lolol.

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 12:07 PM
nickdymez said george and lebron are on the same level lol.

I said that at the beggining of the season. And I was correct.

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 12:13 PM
I said that at the beggining of the season. And I was correct.

Sample size, bro. If you went to a bowling alley, got lucky and bowled a couple of 200+ games, you'd have had a hell of a day as a bowler. That does not qualify you to be a professional bowler. Same thing goes for NBA players. You can have a great game, a great week or a great month. That sample size does not qualify you to be compared to the best player in the NBA. There's 82 games, plus playoffs in an NBA season, and you have to dominate the same in April and May as you did in November.

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 12:22 PM
Sample size, bro. If you went to a bowling alley, got lucky and bowled a couple of 200+ games, you'd have had a hell of a day as a bowler. That does not qualify you to be a professional bowler. Same thing goes for NBA players. You can have a great game, a great week or a great month. That sample size does not qualify you to be compared to the best player in the NBA. There's 82 games, plus playoffs in an NBA season, and you have to dominate the same in April and May as you did in November.

I know how people here get hurt when you mention another human being in the same breath as Lebron James. And I know how easy it is to fall into the trap that some of these Heat fans lay out. But, I simply said at the beggining of the season that George was playing on the same level as Lebron, which he was. I also said that if he keeps up that level of play, he should be an MVP canidate. Thats it. I dont need a lesson on "sample size" bro.

BenFrank
03-25-2014, 12:29 PM
Advanced stats and the eye test lately would disagree with you. What Harden has done the last couple of months is beyond George's ability. Sure, George is a superior defensive player, but Harden's defense isn't nearly the black hole everyone is making it out to be, and he provides more value to Houston than George does to Indiana.

I would like to endorse this whole paragraph..

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 01:20 PM
I know how people here get hurt when you mention another human being in the same breath as Lebron James. And I know how easy it is to fall into the trap that some of these Heat fans lay out. But, I simply said at the beggining of the season that George was playing on the same level as Lebron, which he was. I also said that if he keeps up that level of play, he should be an MVP canidate. Thats it. I dont need a lesson on "sample size" bro.

Perhaps not. But you could certainly use lessons on other basketball related topics. ;)

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 01:22 PM
Perhaps not. But you could certainly use lessons on other basketball related topics. ;)

Well your opinion means nothing to me. Your're just some guy on a forum. What makes you think you know more than anyone else here? Beucause you type out long paragraph responses? Like I said, me and many others believed that George was playing at an ultra elite level. and still is playing at an elite level. If you disagree, then you disagree. Who cares.

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 01:34 PM
Well your opinion means nothing to me. Your're just some guy on a forum. What makes you think you know more than anyone else here?
I don't think I necessarily know more. I'm just not as lazy as some posters. If I state something on PSD, I am more than willing to provide evidence to back that statement up beyond generalizations and Youtube clips. Some posters do not. Also, I'm willing to interpret all kinds of statistics and facts beyond just basic stats and postseason success. Many posters are not willing to do so.

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 01:42 PM
I don't think I necessarily know more. I'm just not as lazy as some posters. If I state something on PSD, I am more than willing to provide evidence to back that statement up beyond generalizations and Youtube clips. Some posters do not. Also, I'm willing to interpret all kinds of statistics and facts beyond just basic stats and postseason success. Many posters are not willing to do so.

Thats fine. But there is no way to prove wrong or right when opinion is involved. Absolute facts are undeniable, ppg, rbg, etc. But who is better, who means more, top 10, etc, is all based on opinion. You people here have a hard time grasping that other people can have an opinion and it doesnt make them any less knowledgeable than anyone else.

MonroeFAN
03-25-2014, 01:43 PM
Advanced stats and the eye test lately would disagree with you. What Harden has done the last couple of months is beyond George's ability. Sure, George is a superior defensive player, but Harden's defense isn't nearly the black hole everyone is making it out to be, and he provides more value to Houston than George does to Indiana.

I think both players are equal right now, and Harden has reached his ceiling (one hell of a player). But George has the tools to be an elite 2-way player for years.

Suggesting that he is a disappointment, let alone the biggest of 2013-14 is foolish, and suggests that fans need to temper their expectations. Couldn't help but notice that the OP says stupid **** quite often.

Ill21
03-25-2014, 02:15 PM
he is still young, has planty of time to improve his game

ManRam
03-25-2014, 02:16 PM
People got too carried away with a strong stretch of play early in the season...a stretch that was unlike anything we had even come close to season from him. It was flukish, and why people felt he had taken that leap offensively and had become an "elite" player because of such a small sample size is beyond me. PG is a very good player, but we were way too quick to anoint him and too quick to forget his flaws from the year prior. I don't think HE has disappointed - though lately he's been flat out bad at times - I just think people were way too quick to crown him. The fact of the matter is that he has made some very significant strides compared to last season. For a 4th year player that's a great sign, and about all you can ask for. He's a solid player, but offensively he has a lot of pitfalls still.

Why people expected him to jump from a fringe top-25 player to a bonafied top-7 player over the course of one summer is beyond me. If you had those expectations of him and you are disappointed, well...that's on you, not him. Because he's progressing fine, but still has the some of the very real flaws he's always had. And again, a month of great play shouldn't have convinced people those real flaws magically disappeared.

I'm not gonna say "I told you so" about PG, because I like the guy and am not root against him...but yeah, more people shouldn't have been pumping the brakes a bit earlier this season. He's young, he's still improving...let's just be patient and let him prove how good he is by his play...and I'm talking large sample sizes.

EDIT: If we're gonna say people bought into the hype because of his playoff performances, well, I disagree with that too. He was the 3rd most important player on that team last year in the playoffs. While he had some MOMENTS, they were mostly just that: isolated moments. As a whole the consistent star play wasn't there, at all.

MonroeFAN
03-25-2014, 02:24 PM
Paul George is absolutely a top 7 player.

Not sure what your point is there.

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 02:25 PM
lol. People acting like PG isnt averaging 20+ points and playing elite Defense on the best team (record wise) in the league.

ManRam
03-25-2014, 03:01 PM
Paul George is absolutely a top 7 player.

Not sure what your point is there.

He's not.

But yeah, it shouldn't say "top-7". So scratch "top-7"...people were "top-3"ing him.

MonroeFAN
03-25-2014, 03:03 PM
You should put a disclaimer before your post, just to make people aware that it's your opinion, and a bizarre one at that.

22 3.5 & 6.5 with elite defense on the most successful team in basketball. What 7 players are better than him?

JEDean89
03-25-2014, 03:15 PM
a bad stretch doesn't make his season a dissapointment, if anything it shows how effective he can still be without scoring the ball unlike the Kevin Loves, James Hardens and Carmelo Anthony's of this league. The guy isn't Kevin Durant, we all know that but he can be a 24-25 ppg scorer with that defense and the way he plays in the system that's amazing. I'll take that over the extra 5 points with no defense any day.

FOBolous
03-25-2014, 03:24 PM
Kyrie Irving's the biggest disappointment imo. dude was suppose to be a superstar. doesn't look like one right now.

Chronz
03-25-2014, 04:05 PM
You should put a disclaimer before your post, just to make people aware that it's your opinion, and a bizarre one at that.

22 3.5 & 6.5 with elite defense on the most successful team in basketball. What 7 players are better than him?

Alot more than 7 have a case vs him thats for sure. You can argue up 15-20 being at his level or better IMO. Which is no diss, I feel like outside the top 3 (Bron, KD, CP3) everyone is much closer together, just depends on what you value. Playoff experience vs regular season vigor.

MonroeFAN
03-25-2014, 04:42 PM
Paul George possess both of those qualities.

nyKnicks126
03-25-2014, 04:48 PM
Paul George spends his time getting catfished on the internet.. The guy is a joke..

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 05:22 PM
Paul George spends his time getting catfished on the internet.. The guy is a joke..

Stupid comment

Hawkeye15
03-25-2014, 06:31 PM
Kyrie Irving's the biggest disappointment imo. dude was suppose to be a superstar. doesn't look like one right now.

very true. Media was putting him in the top 10 before the season, he isn't even a top 20 player this year.

nyKnicks126
03-25-2014, 06:34 PM
Stupid comment

Maybe you've been catfished before? You might understand the pain PG is feeling now. **** off

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 06:37 PM
You don't have to try and insult me. It's just ignorant to say he "spends his time getting catfished"

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nyKnicks126
03-25-2014, 06:41 PM
You don't have to try and insult me. It's just ignorant to say he "spends his time getting catfished"

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Okay, just ignore my comments then. It seems like you're butt hurt from PG... lol

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 06:42 PM
Thats fine. But there is no way to prove wrong or right when opinion is involved. Absolute facts are undeniable, ppg, rbg, etc. But who is better, who means more, top 10, etc, is all based on opinion. You people here have a hard time grasping that other people can have an opinion and it doesnt make them any less knowledgeable than anyone else.
Less knowledgable? Not really. But I'd certainly say that people who refuse to acknowledge the usefulness and validity of advanced statistics are unnecessarily dense and are just contributing to their own ignorance of the sports they watch.

Also, I can buy that people have different opinions and different barometers for judging players. I can't buy that some people absolutely refuse to see the other perspective or the fact that they could be wrong. I also hate it when people use the wrong barometers to judge a player out of sheer ignorance.

Don't tell me you think Kobe has had a better career because he was a better scorer or a better clutch player than Lebron. Both of those have been so clearly debunked and proven untrue that it's ridiculous to even state otherwise. If you want to cite the guy's insane longevity, ridiculous mid-range game and his postseason success? Sure. I would disagree that those barometers make him a better all-time player, but I wouldn't disagree that he's got a substantial edge in all three categories.


I think both players are equal right now, and Harden has reached his ceiling (one hell of a player). But George has the tools to be an elite 2-way player for years.
Why has Harden reached his potential, but George hasn't? That doesn't really seem fair. Both guys are less than a year apart in age and both players have been the No. 1 on their respective teams for roughly two seasons now. It stands to reason that both players can improve. I could easily see Harden becoming at least an average defender and seeing George becoming a more reliable, efficient scoring threat. However, if I had to take a guy right now, give me Harden. George can defend at an elite level, but if I need to a guy to run my offense and manufacture points at the end of games, I'm taking Harden without thinking twice about it.

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 06:47 PM
Okay, just ignore my comments then. It seems like you're butt hurt from PG... lol

lol. Im not butt hurt. You just said some stupid ****. Its all good

MonroeFAN
03-25-2014, 06:57 PM
Less knowledgable? Not really. But I'd certainly say that people who refuse to acknowledge the usefulness and validity of advanced statistics are unnecessarily dense and are just contributing to their own ignorance of the sports they watch.

Also, I can buy that people have different opinions and different barometers for judging players. I can't buy that some people absolutely refuse to see the other perspective or the fact that they could be wrong. I also hate it when people use the wrong barometers to judge a player out of sheer ignorance.

Don't tell me you think Kobe has had a better career because he was a better scorer or a better clutch player than Lebron. Both of those have been so clearly debunked and proven untrue that it's ridiculous to even state otherwise. If you want to cite the guy's insane longevity, ridiculous mid-range game and his postseason success? Sure. I would disagree that those barometers make him a better all-time player, but I wouldn't disagree that he's got a substantial edge in all three categories.


Why has Harden reached his potential, but George hasn't? That doesn't really seem fair. Both guys are less than a year apart in age and both players have been the No. 1 on their respective teams for roughly two seasons now. It stands to reason that both players can improve. I could easily see Harden becoming at least an average defender and seeing George becoming a more reliable, efficient scoring threat. However, if I had to take a guy right now, give me Harden. George can defend at an elite level, but if I need to a guy to run my offense and manufacture points at the end of games, I'm taking Harden without thinking twice about it.

Because one of them is 6'10", and the other is 6'5". How much better can Harden get? You shouldn't take offense to that, he's a ridiculous player already. I just don't see how he can improve all that much. He doesn't really have the physical tools to be an elite defender, but he can always work on his footwork more and could improve in that regard. In terms of his role on the Rockets, I don't see his USG increasing. Most people don't think Houston are contenders right now, adding another impact player would lead to him having a smaller role.

I don't blame you for taking Harden, I have both of them as inter-changeable top 7 players. I just think PG has a slightly brighter future for the reasons I've listed.

nickdymez
03-25-2014, 07:01 PM
Less knowledgable? Not really. But I'd certainly say that people who refuse to acknowledge the usefulness and validity of advanced statistics are unnecessarily dense and are just contributing to their own ignorance of the sports they watch.

Advanced stats have been gaining momentum for what, 10 years MAYBE? So before that, your're telling me that people were "dense" and that this whole time the game was being analyzed and scrutinized the wrong way? Stop forcing advance stats down peoples throats. People can view the game and enjoy however they see fit.


Also, I can buy that people have different opinions and different barometers for judging players. I can't buy that some people absolutely refuse to see the other perspective or the fact that they could be wrong. I also hate it when people use the wrong barometers to judge a player out of sheer ignorance.

The wrong barometers? Says who? What are the right barometers? Why are they the right ones? Because you use them? come on man.


Don't tell me you think Kobe has had a better career because he was a better scorer or a better clutch player than Lebron. Both of those have been so clearly debunked and proven untrue that it's ridiculous to even state otherwise. If you want to cite the guy's insane longevity, ridiculous mid-range game and his postseason success? Sure. I would disagree that those barometers make him a better all-time player, but I wouldn't disagree that he's got a substantial edge in all three categories.

You people and your Lebron and Kobe ****. lol. Give that a break man. You clearly have a biased in the area. Look at your sig. If we were picking teams and you picked Lebron and I picked Kobe, it would be OK. THAT'S MY CHOICE. If you were to tell me their stats, Id still choose Kobe. I prefer Kobe Bryant's game over Lebron. THAT'S MY CHOICE. Doesn't make me ignorant and you knowledgeable.

Hawkeye15
03-25-2014, 07:49 PM
nick, will you ever get it? Advanced stats have IMPROVED not only our, but every GM, scout, coach, and players ability to understand the game of basketball.

You continue to preach that it wasn't around in the 90's for instance. No ****. If it was, the game would have been different.

Hawkeye15
03-25-2014, 07:50 PM
as for the Harden/PG debate, I just want the taller, more athletic two way player going forward. Not to take anything away from Harden, he is going to be one of the top 2-3 perimeter offensive players in the league the next few years. But the gap in his defense compared to PG's gap in offense is just too much for me to ignore.

SouthSideRookie
03-25-2014, 08:48 PM
I think both players are equal right now, and Harden has reached his ceiling (one hell of a player). But George has the tools to be an elite 2-way player for years.

Suggesting that he is a disappointment, let alone the biggest of 2013-14 is foolish, and suggests that fans need to temper their expectations. Couldn't help but notice that the OP says stupid **** quite often.

Lol

Harden is only months older, both players are going on their second full season as "the man".


lol. People acting like PG isnt averaging 20+ points and playing elite Defense on the best team (record wise) in the league.
In a trash conference, nah, that's no accomplishment.

And arent you one of those that tries to bash Lebron and the Heat for getting off on a terrible conference. Then you same people turn around and hype up a second-tier player who's going up against the same competition.

Houston is 22-5 vs the East, and would probably be the 1st seed in the east.


You should put a disclaimer before your post, just to make people aware that it's your opinion, and a bizarre one at that.

22 3.5 & 6.5 with elite defense on the most successful team in basketball. What 7 players are better than him?
The eastern conference has been creating paper tiger contenders, Chicago, NY, and now Indiana. Think about how these teams rack up high win totals and don't come close to winning a ring. And please don't say they've taken the Heat to 6 or 7 games in the ECF. It's a lot easier to reach an ECF than to make the playoffs in the west, period.


Less knowledgable? Not really. But I'd certainly say that people who refuse to acknowledge the usefulness and validity of advanced statistics are unnecessarily dense and are just contributing to their own ignorance of the sports they watch.

Also, I can buy that people have different opinions and different barometers for judging players. I can't buy that some people absolutely refuse to see the other perspective or the fact that they could be wrong. I also hate it when people use the wrong barometers to judge a player out of sheer ignorance.

Don't tell me you think Kobe has had a better career because he was a better scorer or a better clutch player than Lebron. Both of those have been so clearly debunked and proven untrue that it's ridiculous to even state otherwise. If you want to cite the guy's insane longevity, ridiculous mid-range game and his postseason success? Sure. I would disagree that those barometers make him a better all-time player, but I wouldn't disagree that he's got a substantial edge in all three categories.


Why has Harden reached his potential, but George hasn't? That doesn't really seem fair. Both guys are less than a year apart in age and both players have been the No. 1 on their respective teams for roughly two seasons now. It stands to reason that both players can improve. I could easily see Harden becoming at least an average defender and seeing George becoming a more reliable, efficient scoring threat. However, if I had to take a guy right now, give me Harden. George can defend at an elite level, but if I need to a guy to run my offense and manufacture points at the end of games, I'm taking Harden without thinking twice about it.

And I'm sure Morey and any other GM will take the player that's more likely to take over games on offense. PG is a great defender but guess what, it aint like he or anyone is going to shut down the really elite offensive players anyways. It's a lot easier to find a defensive specialist like Tony Allen, who can take on the other teams best scorer than to find an offensive talent like James Harden.

Like we both mentioned, they're around the same age and yeah PG is probably going to get better but so is Harden, the guy is what, 24 freakin' yrs old!

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 09:06 PM
Advanced stats have been gaining momentum for what, 10 years MAYBE? So before that, your're telling me that people were "dense" and that this whole time the game was being analyzed and scrutinized the wrong way? Stop forcing advance stats down peoples throats. People can view the game and enjoy however they see fit.
People also used to think the world was flat. Known facts in math and science evolve over time, and in the information age, they're evolving faster than ever. If you want to live in the past and refuse to acknowledge better barometers for judging athletes, that's your prerogative. The rest of us will be moving on with the rest of society.


The wrong barometers? Says who? What are the right barometers? Why are they the right ones? Because you use them? come on man.
You over reacted before reading the rest of the post. My point is that people use the wrong barometers when judging certain players, especially in the Kobe vs. Lebron argument.


You people and your Lebron and Kobe ****. lol. Give that a break man. You clearly have a biased in the area. Look at your sig. If we were picking teams and you picked Lebron and I picked Kobe, it would be OK. THAT'S MY CHOICE. If you were to tell me their stats, Id still choose Kobe. I prefer Kobe Bryant's game over Lebron. THAT'S MY CHOICE. Doesn't make me ignorant and you knowledgeable.
I'm not biased at all. I just openly admitted that Kobe does a lot of things well and you could make a strong argument for his career over Lebron's. Did you even read my post or did you blatant homerism blind you yet again? And the reason I leave that sig up has nothing to do with Kobe or Lebron and everything to do with you.

Jenceman
03-25-2014, 09:08 PM
Why take the one way player in Harden when PG is near him offensively, but Harden couldn't hope to touch him on the other end?

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 09:11 PM
Because one of them is 6'10", and the other is 6'5". How much better can Harden get? You shouldn't take offense to that, he's a ridiculous player already. I just don't see how he can improve all that much. He doesn't really have the physical tools to be an elite defender, but he can always work on his footwork more and could improve in that regard. In terms of his role on the Rockets, I don't see his USG increasing. Most people don't think Houston are contenders right now, adding another impact player would lead to him having a smaller role.

I don't blame you for taking Harden, I have both of them as inter-changeable top 7 players. I just think PG has a slightly brighter future for the reasons I've listed.

as for the Harden/PG debate, I just want the taller, more athletic two way player going forward. Not to take anything away from Harden, he is going to be one of the top 2-3 perimeter offensive players in the league the next few years. But the gap in his defense compared to PG's gap in offense is just too much for me to ignore.
I'm not denying that George has a higher ceiling because of his length and athleticism, but if you're asking me who I'd rather have right now with the two players performing at their current level, I'd easily take Harden. He's just absolutely a superior offensive player to George. And you can easily hide one poor perimeter defender in a team defense, but you cannot easily add a hyper-efficient scoring machine.

Plus, I feel like people are giving George a little too much credit based on his potential. COULD he be a clearly superior player to Harden? Of course. But he's not today. And I tend to prefer reality to potential when it comes to young star athletes.

mightybosstone
03-25-2014, 09:18 PM
Why take the one way player in Harden when PG is near him offensively, but Harden couldn't hope to touch him on the other end?

Is he near him offensively? Harden scores more than 3 points per game more than George despite taking nearly 1 full shot less per game. He leads George by a pretty huge margin in TS% (5.8%), AST% (7.6%) and ORtg (119-108). Don't get me wrong. Paul George is a very good offensive player, but to say he's "near" Harden just simply isn't true. Harden's a superior offensive player in pretty much every possible way.

And while George's edge over Harden defensively is clearly greater than Harden's edge over George offensively, this is a league where hyper-efficient scorers are at a premium and are valued far more than elite defenders, especially perimeter defenders. There's a reason why Harden makes a max contract and Tony Allen does not.

South Side Sox
03-25-2014, 09:57 PM
I thought this kid was going to catapult himself into superstardom.

Have you ever seen such a massive drop off in production from start of season to now the way we've seen Paul George basically collapse?

Pacers play team ball with a deep line up.

Even Roy Hibbert has no show games stats wise like on Monday night.

MonroeFAN
03-26-2014, 06:48 AM
Lol

Harden is only months older, both players are going on their second full season as "the man".


In a trash conference, nah, that's no accomplishment.

And arent you one of those that tries to bash Lebron and the Heat for getting off on a terrible conference. Then you same people turn around and hype up a second-tier player who's going up against the same competition.

Houston is 22-5 vs the East, and would probably be the 1st seed in the east.


The eastern conference has been creating paper tiger contenders, Chicago, NY, and now Indiana. Think about how these teams rack up high win totals and don't come close to winning a ring. And please don't say they've taken the Heat to 6 or 7 games in the ECF. It's a lot easier to reach an ECF than to make the playoffs in the west, period.



And I'm sure Morey and any other GM will take the player that's more likely to take over games on offense. PG is a great defender but guess what, it aint like he or anyone is going to shut down the really elite offensive players anyways. It's a lot easier to find a defensive specialist like Tony Allen, who can take on the other teams best scorer than to find an offensive talent like James Harden.

Like we both mentioned, they're around the same age and yeah PG is probably going to get better but so is Harden, the guy is what, 24 freakin' yrs old!

It would be great if Non-Rocket fans supported Harden in this argument.


I don't buy into the WC ( significantly > ) than the EC. They're two completely different styles of basketball, and the speed of the WC game clashes with the half court setting of the EC game. When the teams meet in the regular season, EC teams tend to struggle. When they meet in the finals, they split (5-5 since 2004, just a random year I decided to choose). Take from that what you will, but it's a fact. I have never bought into the idea that the Western Conference was better.


How is Harden going to get better? I made a post about it, and everyone just conveniently ignored it. Paul George's size is a huge factor here.

mightybosstone
03-26-2014, 09:27 AM
I don't buy into the WC ( significantly > ) than the EC. They're two completely different styles of basketball, and the speed of the WC game clashes with the half court setting of the EC game. When the teams meet in the regular season, EC teams tend to struggle. When they meet in the finals, they split (5-5 since 2004, just a random year I decided to choose). Take from that what you will, but it's a fact. I have never bought into the idea that the Western Conference was better.
Wow... I'm not quite sure how to argue with you anymore if you're so delusional that you believe this to be true. Right now, Memphis, Phoenix and Dallas are all fighting in the West for an 8th seed and the chance to get blown out in the first round. In the East, they'd be the No. 3 seed by a wide margin. Don't want to go by record? Okay, we'll go by SRS. There are only four total teams in the East right now with a positive SRS. There are 10 in the West! In terms of SRS, the best team in the East (Indy) would be the FIFTH best team in the West! Don't like SRS? Okay, we'll go point differential. There are five teams in the East with a positive point differential compared to 10 in the West, and Indy (the East's best) boasts only the fifth highest point differential in the league.

That not enough to convince you the West is better? Okay. Go ahead and name your top 20-25 players in the league right now and count how many are in each conference. The West dominates that list, right? To offer an objective list, 14 out of the top 20 players in the league in terms of WS/48 come from the West and 15 of the top 20 players in PER come from the West.

There is literally ZERO barometers you can use that shows the East is remotely anywhere close to the vicinity of the Western Conference. You can bring up the 5-5 stat over the last 10 Finals all you want to, but how does a single series between two series represent the entirety of both conferences? You're taking a 7-game sample size and pretending like that makes up for the talent disparity between the 15 teams in one conference between the 15 teams in the other conference, which is completely absurd. If Conference X has 15 really good teams and Conference Y has 14 awful teams and one great team that just happens to win the championship, that does not make Conference Y better than Conference X at all. It's insane that you could possibly believe that.


How is Harden going to get better? I made a post about it, and everyone just conveniently ignored it. Paul George's size is a huge factor here.
And I addressed that already. The guy can improve on the defensive end. He's not going to suddenly get longer or more athletic, but he's strong as hell, and he can put more effort into keeping his man in front of him. Also, there's things he can do better offensively. He's already insanely efficient, but his last season in OKC was on another level (66% TS%), which isn't unreachable for Harden, even with a much higher usage rate. He just needs to keep hitting 3-pointers at a higher clip (which he has done like crazy the second half of the season), continue to take open mid-range jumpers if he's got them and finish around the basket.

Also, one of Harden's biggest weaknesses are his turnovers. As the main playmaker for Houston's roster, I'm not sure if he'll be able to cut back too much in that area, but he can certainly cut back on the unforced turnovers with more experience running the offense and I could see that AST/TO ratio eventually reach 2/1.

Bottom line, Harden is already better than George, and I don't think he's reached his ceiling yet.

MonroeFAN
03-26-2014, 11:13 AM
Until conferences are removed, and all teams play each other an equal amount of times, your point is not valid with me. You're arguing semantics and I have no interest to continue on with that.

The argument all along is that George can be as good of an offensive player as Harden, and Harden cannot become the elite defender that George is. If you disagree, cool. I've said numerous times that it goes either way with me currently, but that PG has an slight advantage because of his size.

Is Harden going to grow 5"?

As far as a list of my top 25 players, just because the west has a bunch of inflated BS numbers doesn't mean their players are superstars. I love that the EC has "paper-contenders", and the WC doesn't in the mind of your average western conference fan. I can use the 7 game series sample all I want, championships are what matter. Flare does not.

oconn444
03-26-2014, 11:49 AM
he is second to roy hibbert in defensive efficiency. he averages 22ppg, almost 7rpg, and 4apg. while his averages are less than desirable, he is a two way star in this league.

mightybosstone
03-26-2014, 12:47 PM
Until conferences are removed, and all teams play each other an equal amount of times, your point is not valid with me. You're arguing semantics and I have no interest to continue on with that.
I'm actually not arguing semantics at all, and I'm pretty sure you don't know what "semantics" means if you think that. I'm arguing facts. There are more talented player and better basketball teams in the Western Conference than the Eastern Conference and the Western Conference performs better against the Eastern Conference. These aren't even really debatable. They're facts, and you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence to prove otherwise.


The argument all along is that George can be as good of an offensive player as Harden, and Harden cannot become the elite defender that George is. If you disagree, cool. I've said numerous times that it goes either way with me currently, but that PG has an slight advantage because of his size.

Is Harden going to grow 5"?
I'm not saying George can't become as good of an offensive basketball player as Harden. He could. But why is it that you're assuming he will? Just because he CAN, does not mean he WILL. He would have to see insane increases in his efficiency and distribution, and I just don't see it happening. If Harden continues to improve as an offensive player, it certainly isn't likely. As far as Harden becoming as good of a defender as George, I never said he would. I think he can get better. But I also think it's extremely unlikely George will ever be as good offensively as Harden is.


As far as a list of my top 25 players, just because the west has a bunch of inflated BS numbers doesn't mean their players are superstars. I love that the EC has "paper-contenders", and the WC doesn't in the mind of your average western conference fan.
Why are you quoting me as claiming the East has "paper contenders" when I never said anything remotely close to that? Obviously Miami and Indiana should be taken seriously as contenders, and I never once argued that point. But you completely failed to miss my point about the top talent in the league by just totally ignoring advanced stats. You want to prove me wrong? List your top 25 players in the league right now and let's see which conference most of those players come from. You want to ignore advanced stats? Fine. But let's see you come up with a list that backs your argument. I'll be waiting...


I can use the 7 game series sample all I want, championships are what matter. Flare does not.
You can also look like ignorant in the process. You've done a pretty phenomenal job of that so far.

Rain City
03-26-2014, 01:41 PM
id say the biggest disappointment is oj mayo. he's had an up and down career, but not even starting a lot of the time for one of NBAs worst teams. he was brought in to have an opportunity to blossom as a featured player and give a team a chance to be relevant. he's been straight trash. could say the exact same about josh smith. george is simply going through a scoring slump, but he's still a legit all star, most important player on #1 seed.

Rain City
03-26-2014, 01:45 PM
iman shumpert, jr smith have been way more disappointing than paul george.

Stunner
03-26-2014, 05:42 PM
https://twitter.com/H00PINATI/status/448937204304211968

NBA_Starter
03-26-2014, 09:21 PM
He will probably pick it up in the second half vs the Heat.

SouthSideRookie
03-29-2014, 12:52 AM
lol. People acting like PG isnt averaging 20+ points and playing elite Defense on the best team (record wise) in the league.



You should put a disclaimer before your post, just to make people aware that it's your opinion, and a bizarre one at that.

22 3.5 & 6.5 with elite defense on the most successful team in basketball. What 7 players are better than him?


a bad stretch doesn't make his season a dissapointment, if anything it shows how effective he can still be without scoring the ball unlike the Kevin Loves, James Hardens and Carmelo Anthony's of this league. The guy isn't Kevin Durant, we all know that but he can be a 24-25 ppg scorer with that defense and the way he plays in the system that's amazing. I'll take that over the extra 5 points with no defense any day.

Please tell me how he's being effective without scoring.


Why take the one way player in Harden when PG is near him offensively, but Harden couldn't hope to touch him on the other end?

Last meeting vs Lebron, Melo and Harden.

Lebron with 38 pts

Melo 34 pts

Harden 28 pts, only played 3 quarters since the game turned into a laugher.

Now tell me, where's this elite shut down defense people speak of. Like I've said already, no player is ever going to shut down the true elite players in this league, why people have not figured this out is beyond me.


Pacers play team ball with a deep line up.

Even Roy Hibbert has no show games stats wise like on Monday night.

The reason why Indiana matches up well against Miami is because of their size. The Heat have allowed seven 20+ scoring games to Roy Hibbert the last two seasons. No other team has allowed more than 3. If Indiana had a true #1 option they'd be a bigger threat to not only beat Miami but win it all.


Until conferences are removed, and all teams play each other an equal amount of times, your point is not valid with me. You're arguing semantics and I have no interest to continue on with that.

The argument all along is that George can be as good of an offensive player as Harden, and Harden cannot become the elite defender that George is. If you disagree, cool. I've said numerous times that it goes either way with me currently, but that PG has an slight advantage because of his size.

Is Harden going to grow 5"?

As far as a list of my top 25 players, just because the west has a bunch of inflated BS numbers doesn't mean their players are superstars. I love that the EC has "paper-contenders", and the WC doesn't in the mind of your average western conference fan. I can use the 7 game series sample all I want, championships are what matter. Flare does not.
I've been saying this since Lebron went to Miami. These EC teams compile high win totals, "best team in the league-type win totals", and don't come close to winning a title. There's only one true power in the East atm.


https://twitter.com/H00PINATI/status/448937204304211968

This is more than a slump.

mrblisterdundee
03-29-2014, 11:45 AM
he has gotten better, in that he was downright awful last season. I actually think he is a better defender down low than out top. He just doesn't have great defensive awareness.

For that reason, I am taking PG over Harden. PG is a lock down defender, an excellent team defender, and is still good offensively, even if he isn't on Harden's level. He is also younger, bigger, and more athletic.

I'd have to agree with this. And if Paul George was on the Rockets and James Harden on the Pacers, it's quite possible George ends up the bigger scorer and still a better defender, younger, bigger and more athletic.

Shammyguy3
03-29-2014, 12:00 PM
How would George end up as a bigger scorer when there are better offensive weapons on the HOU team who demand a great amount of touches, as opposed to Harden who would be taking the offense over even more than he did last year in HOU?

FlashBolt
03-29-2014, 12:32 PM
Paul George has ended up being simply a defender more than anything. Superstar? I mean he's not much better than last year from this point. He's getting more opportunities but nothing special is really going on. I also think his defense is overrated despite what many argue. Against Miami, Roy Hibbert was there covering his mistakes.

Minimal
03-29-2014, 01:07 PM
The guy is not even in top 20 in PER this season, and many people considered him as 3rd best player at the start of the season. Big slump. He is a top 10 player at best right now.

ThuglifeJ
03-29-2014, 02:10 PM
Knicks are more dissapointing IMO..

mrblisterdundee
03-29-2014, 04:17 PM
How would George end up as a bigger scorer when there are better offensive weapons on the HOU team who demand a great amount of touches, as opposed to Harden who would be taking the offense over even more than he did last year in HOU?

It's about the team's playing style. Houston averages 10 points more per game, possibly the deciding factor for why Harden averages more points than George.

Shammyguy3
03-29-2014, 05:09 PM
It's about the team's playing style. Houston averages 10 points more per game, possibly the deciding factor for why Harden averages more points than George.

the deciding factor isn't just one thing. There's a few reasons why Harden averages more points than George:
1) he's a much better scorer
2) he scores far more efficiently (3 point rate and free throw rate)
3) he doesn't put any energy into the defensive end, he completely focuses on offense

Sure, George plays on a slower paced team, but that isn't a significant factor for Harden considering HOU's pace is 95.8 and IND's is 92.9 (a difference of 2.9). The significant factors are rather the above points. Overall, Harden's a monster scorer. George can score, but he's not in Harden's league.

mightybosstone
03-29-2014, 06:45 PM
the deciding factor isn't just one thing. There's a few reasons why Harden averages more points than George:
1) he's a much better scorer
2) he scores far more efficiently (3 point rate and free throw rate)
3) he doesn't put any energy into the defensive end, he completely focuses on offense

Sure, George plays on a slower paced team, but that isn't a significant factor for Harden considering HOU's pace is 95.8 and IND's is 92.9 (a difference of 2.9). The significant factors are rather the above points. Overall, Harden's a monster scorer. George can score, but he's not in Harden's league.

This. The team's style has nothing whatsoever to do with why Harden averages more points. Harden's just a far better scorer, period, which is why he's scoring more points per game despite fewer field goal attempts. He's a better shooter, a better penetrator, better at scoring in the paint, better at drawing contract, a better distributor and just a better overall offensive player by a wide margin.

mrblisterdundee
03-30-2014, 10:58 PM
the deciding factor isn't just one thing. There's a few reasons why Harden averages more points than George:
1) he's a much better scorer
2) he scores far more efficiently (3 point rate and free throw rate)
3) he doesn't put any energy into the defensive end, he completely focuses on offense

Sure, George plays on a slower paced team, but that isn't a significant factor for Harden considering HOU's pace is 95.8 and IND's is 92.9 (a difference of 2.9). The significant factors are rather the above points. Overall, Harden's a monster scorer. George can score, but he's not in Harden's league.

The numbers represent Harden as a more effective scorer; nobody can deny that. But per 36 minutes on a team that averages 10 fewer points per game, George only averages two fewer points than Harden. I'm sticking with the hypothesis that he can pick up two to four of those extra 10 points, and that Harden's scoring will dip on the slower-paced Pacers.

ThuglifeJ
03-31-2014, 04:36 PM
October 28.0 PPG
November 23.0
December 24.1
January 21.3
February 21.0
March 18.9


Damn PG...