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View Full Version : Is Gregg Popovich the 3rd most valuable asset in the league?



Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 12:58 AM
Obviously Lebron and Durant are 1 & 2 since they're the clear cut best players in the league, but after that, I don't know if there's any player more valuable than Pop. The guy takes damn near d-league/12th man scrubs like Patty Mills, Danny Green, and Tiago Splitter (Might not be fair to classify Splitter as a scrub, but IMO he would be if he wasn't playing with the Spurs/Pop) and makes them serviceable to above average players. He's rested 2 or 3/3 of his best players against GSW twice and beat them both times in Golden State. The Spurs are clearly the best team in the league right now even though the big 3 aren't really close to elite players anymore (Parker hasn't been elite this year and I think Dragic should've made the ASG over him). Don't get me wrong, Duncan is still really damn good and Manu is having a solid bounce back year, but it's arguable that the Spurs have no all-stars on their team this year but they still have the best record in the league. It's just amazing what he does with below average talent and aging stars. Looking at their box scores is just crazy. I don't think I've ever seen a team win with such balance and teamwork as this year's Spurs. There's no player taking on a huge load and carrying this team on their back like AlJeff with Charlotte or Dragic with PHX...just pure teamwork.

So, do you think Pop is the 3rd most valuable asset in the league?

WARRIORS@GR
03-23-2014, 01:04 AM
I'd put him at 1st.

tredigs
03-23-2014, 01:07 AM
I don't disagree with your premise (it's possible you could make the argument Pop is the 3rd most important piece in the league... though it goes beyond him to the organization as a whole), but you're underestimating the skill/impact level of TP/Duncan/Kawhi/Manu/Splitter and having elite gunners from 3 to stretch the floor.

You might be underestimating their impact due to the fact that they're deep enough that they don't have to play any starter more than 30ppg and their #'s look more pedestrian as a result. I realize that's in part due to their elite system and that's partially what gives them this flexibility, but it's also simply due to them all being HIGH impact players who know each others games inside out and can build huge leads (then rest) often. For Duncan to be able to average 15/10/3 with great D at age 37 in limited minutes is more than Pop, it's just him being the underrated force of nature that he is.

If Pop were a free agent, I'm willing to bet his stock in a trade would be something like a top prospect + a 1st or a low level All Star + a 1st.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 01:16 AM
I don't disagree with your premise (it's possible you could make the argument Pop is the 3rd most important piece in the league... though it goes beyond him to the organization as a whole), but you're underestimating the skill/impact level of TP/Duncan/Kawhi/Manu/Splitter and having elite gunners from 3 to stretch the floor.

You might be underestimating their impact due to the fact that they're deep enough that they don't have to play any starter more than 30ppg and their #'s look more pedestrian as a result. I realize that's in part due to their elite system and that's partially what gives them this flexibility, but it's also simply due to them all being HIGH impact players who know each others games inside out and can build huge leads (then rest) often. For Duncan to be able to average 15/10/3 with great D at age 37 in limited minutes is more than Pop, it's just him being the underrated force of nature that he is.

If Pop were a free agent, I'm willing to bet his stock in a trade would be something like a top prospect + a 1st or a low level All Star + a 1st.

Fair enough.

I think those guys are all damn good players (except Splitter who I think is ok because of the Pop effect). I just don't think this roster is good enough to be best team in the league. Parker hasn't been as good this year as the last 2, and there's no offensive juggernaut that at least 1 playoff team in the west (other than Memphis) has that is putting up elite production. That's the key point to me. The balance and the growth of guys like Danny Green and Patty Mills (who weren't the 3pt gunners they were before joining the Spurs, and I guess you can throw Bellinelli in there since he's having his best shooting season by far) turning into solid players is just awesome.

Hawkeye15
03-23-2014, 01:20 AM
I agree with the premise, but I would like to see every good coach have Buford in the FO.

tredigs
03-23-2014, 01:24 AM
Fair enough.

I think those guys are all damn good players (except Splitter who I think is ok because of the Pop effect). I just don't think this roster is good enough to be best team in the league. Parker hasn't been as good this year as the last 2, and there's no offensive juggernaut that at least 1 playoff team in the west (other than Memphis) has that is putting up elite production. That's the key point to me. The balance and the growth of guys like Danny Green and Patty Mills turning into solid players is just awesome.

I just watched Splitter play pretty brilliantly against Bogut so I can't leave him out, and TP may be a bit down from the arguable top-10 overall player he was the past couple years, but he's still very much playing prime ball.

In general we're on the same page though, Pop (and the organization as a whole) is built in a way that demands that you fall into place and clearly will make you better than the sum of your parts. With Westbrook and his knee trouble, it's tough to pick any team against them in the West (and probably overall) right now. Which, for a team whose demise people started predicting as early as 5 years ago with this core, is ridiculous.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 01:25 AM
I agree with the premise, but I would like to see every good coach have Buford in the FO.

If you said this before Duncan's decline, I'd definitely agree, but have they had great pickups or draft picks lately? Kawhi is the only good acquisition that comes to mind the past 3-4 years. Most guys on the roster are either declining players (Diaw), or bonafide bench players (Green, Mills, Belinelli) before they came.

Hawkeye15
03-23-2014, 01:27 AM
If you said this before Duncan's decline, I'd definitely agree, but have they had great pickups or draft picks lately? Kawhi is the only good acquisition that comes to mind the past 3-4 years. Most guys on the roster are either declining players (Diaw), or bonafide bench players (Green, Mills, Belinelli) before they came.

uh, yes. Buford is an amazing GM. Even his protege is amazing.

Without Buford (or David's injury that "lasted" through the season), we would never consider Pops at his current level.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 01:34 AM
uh, yes. Buford is an amazing GM. Even his protege is amazing.

Without Buford (or David's injury that "lasted" through the season), we would never consider Pops at his current level.

I know he's an amazing GM, but since the "predicted demise of 5 years ago" like Tredigs mentioned, they haven't really had any noteworthy pickups on the roster other than Leonard, who's a pretty good player but no star. He hasn't had to go break bank/spend a shitload of $$$ or trade picks for quality players because Popovich is there and can make chicken salad outta chicken ****

slaker619
03-23-2014, 01:37 AM
Truth, he got OD history to him, I deff wanna see him running in the office in the future like Pat & now Phil

Hawkeye15
03-23-2014, 01:48 AM
I know he's an amazing GM, but since the "predicted demise of 5 years ago" like Tredigs mentioned, they haven't really had any noteworthy pickups on the roster other than Leonard, who's a pretty good player but no star. He hasn't had to go break bank/spend a shitload of $$$ or trade picks for quality players because Popovich is there and can make chicken salad outta chicken ****

you are seriously underrating their GM. He and Pops are working together at this point (have been for 10 years) on bringing in system players.

They both are equal on what has made the Spurs special.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 01:52 AM
you are seriously underrating their GM. He and Pops are working together at this point (have been for 10 years) on bringing in system players.

They both are equal on what has made the Spurs special.

of course they're working together. my point is that most of these guys they bring in are close to nothing w/o Pop's coaching. who would've thought guys like Green, Mills, Roger Mason (when he was there), would become quality role players? I don't think Buford could've expected what he's gotten out of those players. That's Pop to me.

If Pop goes to any other elite team he's just as successful IMO.

JWorthy42
03-23-2014, 03:23 AM
Thibs is the best coach in the NBA.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-23-2014, 10:36 AM
Not 3rd but he's close.

He's the best coach there with Thibs a close 2nd.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2014, 11:16 AM
I completely agree with Sadds. Tony Parker-Manu Ginobili-Kawhi Leonard-etc. The Spurs system turned middle-late 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick into an unstoppable core. Pop has won 60% of his games for the last 15 years. That is unheard of. Waiver wire fodder like Mills-Diaw become great role players.

torocan
03-23-2014, 11:43 AM
Thibs is the best coach in the NBA.

I think it's possible to make a decent argument out of it, as long as you completely ignore Rings, Championship appearances, win rate, number of times in the play offs, number of seasons with 50+ wins and sheer longevity in maintaining an Elite team. Sorry, Thibodeau hasn't done enough to be even remotely considered on the level of Pops, much less better than Pops.

Now, if you said Thibodeau was the best DEFENSIVE coach in the NBA, I'd buy that...

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 11:43 AM
Not 3rd but he's close.

He's the best coach there with Thibs a close 2nd.

Who would u say is 3rd then? I thought about it and don't think anyone is that close.

Like say there's a real life nba redraft with coaches included...who would u pick 3rd? I'm def taking pop

JasonJohnHorn
03-23-2014, 11:56 AM
I voted no, because I think he and Duncan are likely, together, the most valuable asset any team could hope to have.


Buford is great, but it was Pop who built this team as a GM, and from what I've read he still plays a huge hand in who gets picked and signed. Buford is great, but Pop is huge in developing the guys who get drafted.


That said, Pop is nothing without a classy guy like Duncan. Duncan's class is contagious. After winning their first title, the Spurs went 3 years without a ring, and in one season had a REALLY bad start. Pop was on the hot sit for not winning with Duncan and Robinson in their prime together, and Robinson was declining. Duncan stood up for his coach and made sure he kept his job. This is NOT what we typically see from players, who are often eager to get coaches fired and at the very least don't care enough one way or the other.


Pop was the GM and the coach of this dynasty. Buford has done an amazing job since Pop moved to coach full time, and deserves a lot of credit.

The whole organization is classy, and the players they bring in buy into the system. It's just amazing how they work and I wish more organizations ran their teams like this.

kozelkid
03-23-2014, 12:01 PM
you are seriously underrating their GM. He and Pops are working together at this point (have been for 10 years) on bringing in system players.

They both are equal on what has made the Spurs special.

You're continuing to dodge Sadd's point which is the fact that besides Leonard, they haven't hit on any noteworthy late picks who became productive players. More than anything, they take one team's garbage and Pop is able to incorporate them into productive players.

This isn't taking anything from Buford who has proven to be an elite gm in the past. More than anything, it's hard for Buford to make a consistent mark when Spurs consistently pick in the end of the first round. So yes, to an extent, what Pop is currently doing I believe he could do with other GM's. Especially if we account for the fact that Pop obviously has input on which players to bring to his system in the first place.

Anyway, I'd buy that argument that he is 3rd most valuable asset.

slashsnake
03-23-2014, 12:06 PM
I completely agree with Sadds. Tony Parker-Manu Ginobili-Kawhi Leonard-etc. The Spurs system turned middle-late 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick into an unstoppable core. Pop has won 60% of his games for the last 15 years. That is unheard of. Waiver wire fodder like Mills-Diaw become great role players.

So wasn't that more on RC Buford who went out to Argentina and France and found these gems?

And it is kind of funny but I think there are great role players all over the league. Just when they are starting for a weak roster, they don't show it, but when they can go play 15 minutes a game for a contender, then all of a sudden they become a great role player. Birdman goes from amnestied and losing time to great role player. Guys like Devean George, or Ariza, Sefalosha, or Kendrick Perkins. All seem like great role players. But when they chase that contract to a new team where they can be more on a weaker team... well we saw Fisher in Utah and Golden State.

Not to say everyone can be a great role player, but I think they are easier to find than you think

Sactown
03-23-2014, 01:58 PM
So wasn't that more on RC Buford who went out to Argentina and France and found these gems?

And it is kind of funny but I think there are great role players all over the league. Just when they are starting for a weak roster, they don't show it, but when they can go play 15 minutes a game for a contender, then all of a sudden they become a great role player. Birdman goes from amnestied and losing time to great role player. Guys like Devean George, or Ariza, Sefalosha, or Kendrick Perkins. All seem like great role players. But when they chase that contract to a new team where they can be more on a weaker team... well we saw Fisher in Utah and Golden State.

Not to say everyone can be a great role player, but I think they are easier to find than you think

Role players shine best when they are in goo systems, not only did you take role players who chased conracts but you also took players and either removed them or added them to a great system with

Pops
Phil's
And Spo

And put them on teams without a direction
Washington
Golden state

KnicksorBust
03-23-2014, 03:05 PM
So wasn't that more on RC Buford who went out to Argentina and France and found these gems?

And it is kind of funny but I think there are great role players all over the league. Just when they are starting for a weak roster, they don't show it, but when they can go play 15 minutes a game for a contender, then all of a sudden they become a great role player. Birdman goes from amnestied and losing time to great role player. Guys like Devean George, or Ariza, Sefalosha, or Kendrick Perkins. All seem like great role players. But when they chase that contract to a new team where they can be more on a weaker team... well we saw Fisher in Utah and Golden State.

Not to say everyone can be a great role player, but I think they are easier to find than you think

You really want to give a scout credit for picks over the GM-Team President-Coach? The Spurs aren't always a great team because RC Buford goes out and finds steals like Patty Mills. They are always a great team because Pop created a culture and a system of winning.

Ezio
03-23-2014, 03:20 PM
I think it's possible to make a decent argument out of it, as long as you completely ignore Rings, Championship appearances, win rate, number of times in the play offs, number of seasons with 50+ wins and sheer longevity in maintaining an Elite team. Sorry, Thibodeau hasn't done enough to be even remotely considered on the level of Pops, much less better than Pops.

Now, if you said Thibodeau was the best DEFENSIVE coach in the NBA, I'd buy that...

And I will sell that. He's also the most PG friendly coach in the league. He makes most PGs look good. I can't believe even with trading his horse away, the team is the 2nd best defensive team in the league.

Jamiecballer
03-23-2014, 03:21 PM
Yes yes yes.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-23-2014, 08:46 PM
I'd put him at 1st.

DId you really just steal the Avatar I've been rocking? LOL

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-23-2014, 08:47 PM
The answer is yes btw. That ugly old bastard is the second best coach of all time.

NBA_Starter
03-23-2014, 08:52 PM
He is up there and I can say one thing he is the best interview in the league.:speechless:

Raps18-19 Champ
03-23-2014, 08:56 PM
Who would u say is 3rd then? I thought about it and don't think anyone is that close.

Like say there's a real life nba redraft with coaches included...who would u pick 3rd? I'm def taking pop

Probably CP3 if he was completely healthy. Maybe Thibs. Pops would be top 5 though.

smith&wesson
03-23-2014, 08:57 PM
I completely agree with Sadds. Tony Parker-Manu Ginobili-Kawhi Leonard-etc. The Spurs system turned middle-late 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick into an unstoppable core. Pop has won 60% of his games for the last 15 years. That is unheard of. Waiver wire fodder like Mills-Diaw become great role players.

+1

smith&wesson
03-23-2014, 09:00 PM
Who would u say is 3rd then? I thought about it and don't think anyone is that close.

Like say there's a real life nba redraft with coaches included...who would u pick 3rd? I'm def taking pop

1. lebron
2. durant
3. duncan
4. kobe
5. pops
6. thibs
7. rivers

P&GRealist
03-23-2014, 09:02 PM
If you mean ****ing up substitutions 2 games in a row and basically handing the Heat the championship, then yes, he is for sure one hellluva of a valuable asset.

Ebbs
03-23-2014, 09:06 PM
I think Thibs is the best coach in the NBA. So I disagree.

ghettosean
03-23-2014, 09:13 PM
I don't disagree with your premise (it's possible you could make the argument Pop is the 3rd most important piece in the league... though it goes beyond him to the organization as a whole), but you're underestimating the skill/impact level of TP/Duncan/Kawhi/Manu/Splitter and having elite gunners from 3 to stretch the floor.

You might be underestimating their impact due to the fact that they're deep enough that they don't have to play any starter more than 30ppg and their #'s look more pedestrian as a result. I realize that's in part due to their elite system and that's partially what gives them this flexibility, but it's also simply due to them all being HIGH impact players who know each others games inside out and can build huge leads (then rest) often. For Duncan to be able to average 15/10/3 with great D at age 37 in limited minutes is more than Pop, it's just him being the underrated force of nature that he is.

If Pop were a free agent, I'm willing to bet his stock in a trade would be something like a top prospect + a 1st or a low level All Star + a 1st.

I get what your saying and all but I think if you take Pop off of the spurs its going to jave the same effect as Lionel Hollins leaving Memphis.

smith&wesson
03-23-2014, 09:13 PM
If you mean ****ing up substitutions 2 games in a row and basically handing the Heat the championship, then yes, he is for sure one hellluva of a valuable asset.

what about the fact that he coached that old *** team to the finals in the first place :confused:

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 09:33 PM
1. lebron
2. durant
3. duncan
4. kobe
5. pops
6. thibs
7. rivers

How can u put Kobe so high when we don't know what he'll be like after the injuries? Also think u have Duncan and rivers too high

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 09:36 PM
If you mean ****ing up substitutions 2 games in a row and basically handing the Heat the championship, then yes, he is for sure one hellluva of a valuable asset.
Dumb logic.

Doesn't mean he isn't valuable...thats why the guy that beat him is #1 on my list, genius

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 09:39 PM
I think Thibs is the best coach in the NBA. So I disagree.
I don't think think so...he's never come close to touching Miami in a series even back when rose was healthy.

He's definitely 2nd best coach but I don't think he's popovich.

kdspurman
03-23-2014, 09:42 PM
what about the fact that he coached that old *** team to the finals in the first place :confused:


Dumb logic.

Doesn't mean he isn't valuable...thats why the guy that beat him is #1 on my list, genius

I tried to break it down for the guy how Pop's game plan made sense considering the Spurs were switching on everything, and Duncan at 37 can't guard perimeter guys now. I broke down the whole segment for him and he didn't really respond. I see the argument both way, but no way put that on Pop.

If anything, I put more on the fact that Parker's hamstring imjury limited him more than anything. That was the difference maker imo.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 09:51 PM
I tried to break it down for the guy how Pop's game plan made sense considering the Spurs were switching on everything, and Duncan at 37 can't guard perimeter guys now. I broke down the whole segment for him and he didn't really respond. I see the argument both way, but no way put that on Pop.

If anything, I put more on the fact that Parker's hamstring imjury limited him more than anything. That was the difference maker imo.

I blamed pop for that finals blunder when it happened but that doesn't take anything away from him....just like nobody took anything from kd when he lost in the finals. Kd was still considered the 2nd best player by far

kdspurman
03-23-2014, 09:58 PM
I blamed pop for that finals blunder when it happened but that doesn't take anything away from him....just like nobody took anything from kd when he lost in the finals. Kd was still considered the 2nd best player by far

Right.. He's a proven championship level coach. If he wasn't, then I'd understand. And getting his guys focused and playing the way they are this year after that devastating loss is impressive in itself.

smith&wesson
03-23-2014, 10:14 PM
How can u put Kobe so high when we don't know what he'll be like after the injuries? Also think u have Duncan and rivers too high

when you said re draft, I assumed you meant all players would be rookies..

if were talking about their state right now, then yes duncan and kobe wouldnt even be on the list.

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 10:15 PM
when you said re draft, I assumed you meant all players would be rookies..

if were talking about their state right now, then yes duncan and kobe wouldnt even be on the list.

yea I meant right now. If it was all time I'd probably take Duncan 1st or 2nd.

smith&wesson
03-23-2014, 10:24 PM
yea I meant right now. If it was all time I'd probably take Duncan 1st or 2nd.

fair enough. it would be close for me either he or lebron.. pops would be up there too.

heres a tough one. thibs or rivers ?

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 10:26 PM
fair enough. it would be close for me either he or lebron.. pops would be up there too.

heres a tough one. thibs or rivers ?

I think Thibs is more valuable than Rivers

smith&wesson
03-23-2014, 10:30 PM
I think Thibs is more valuable than Rivers

its pops and then those two in which ever order. I cant decide between them because I do think thibs has the advantage over rivers since being hc but at the same token he learned alot from rivers too so I dont know how much credit goes there.

NBA_Starter
03-23-2014, 10:38 PM
I think Thibs is more valuable than Rivers

Didn't Rivers tutor him?

Sadds The Gr8
03-23-2014, 10:41 PM
Didn't Rivers tutor him?

I guess but from what I've read/heard, Rivers is the one who uses Thibs' defensive system so they both learned from each other.

If they traded places, I think the Clippers would be better and the Bulls would be equal to, or worse than they are at best.

Allphakenny1
03-23-2014, 11:37 PM
I voted no, but I do not think it is that far fetched. I would still take an elite player over an elite coach because I do not see too many teams winning championships without elite players, but elite players can win with a decent to pretty good coach.

I still remember (barely) the Warriors choosing Don Nelson over Chris Webber and that did not work out too great. I was still very young then, but I believe Nelson was considered an elite coach back then.

Deadpool
03-24-2014, 06:06 AM
YES. It can be argued that he is the most valuable asset in this league.

PurpleLynch
03-24-2014, 08:22 AM
Yes,maybe 1st. I mean,he turned Belinelli in a good role player in the Nba,that's just amazing! :D

Ebbs
03-24-2014, 10:17 AM
I don't think think so...he's never come close to touching Miami in a series even back when rose was healthy.

He's definitely 2nd best coach but I don't think he's popovich.

The Bulls have no business touching them. The first go around they had three Hall of Famers all in their prime.

Last year they had no star and faced the same team.

I'm not trying to take away from pops or the SPurs but Duncan would've be 1 or 2 on this list numerous times. He's a once in a lifetime player, 100% committed to the franchise. Yes they've done a good job brining in supporting talent but Manu and Parker would've been good anywhere.

torocan
03-24-2014, 10:40 AM
Yes,maybe 1st. I mean,he turned Belinelli in a good role player in the Nba,that's just amazing! :D

If he manages to turn Austin Daye into a legitimate starter, I may just have to move Pops up from #3.

That wouldn't be far behind Water into Wine as miracles go...

Ebbs
03-24-2014, 10:42 AM
Thibs
Pops
RC
Rivers
Vogel/Spo

for me

KnicksorBust
03-24-2014, 11:28 AM
The Bulls have no business touching them. The first go around they had three Hall of Famers all in their prime.

Last year they had no star and faced the same team.

I'm not trying to take away from pops or the SPurs but Duncan would've be 1 or 2 on this list numerous times. He's a once in a lifetime player, 100% committed to the franchise. Yes they've done a good job brining in supporting talent but Manu and Parker would've been good anywhere.

#1.) I'm not nearly as convinced as you are that Tony Parker would have ever approached the level he has under Pop.

#2.) Why does having Duncan take away from his legacy?

#3.) How many rings and consecutive years of winning +60% of your games would it take for you to put him #1? I don't see how you justify putting Thibs over Pop.

Ebbs
03-24-2014, 12:04 PM
#1.) I'm not nearly as convinced as you are that Tony Parker would have ever approached the level he has under Pop.

#2.) Why does having Duncan take away from his legacy?

#3.) How many rings and consecutive years of winning +60% of your games would it take for you to put him #1? I don't see how you justify putting Thibs over Pop.

OK #1 he may not have been as successful but he's a fantastic player. You could argue on a bad team with a bad coach he runs rampant and puts up more aesthetic raw numbers.

#2) I'm not taking away from his legacy I'm saying people are overlooking that the SPurs had a top ten player all time. It definitely helps a coach to have that kind of a building block.

#3) Pops is obviously better All-Time. But I just think the past couple years I'm more impressed with Thibs job on the Bulls. His ability to keep that team competitive over and over is insane. I felt like the Bulls beating the Nets last year was masterful in the same way LeBron taking the Cavs to the finals was. Yes it ultimately was a failure in the grand scheme of things but they had no business being where they are. Same this year. That Bulls team is so devoid of true offensive talent yet they are fighting for the third seed? Yes I know it's the East but regardless. His best player is a "Hustle" guy. D.J. Augustine who was cut leads them in scoring with 14.3 points per game. (An NBA worst.)

Ezio
03-24-2014, 12:22 PM
Yes,maybe 1st. I mean,he turned Belinelli in a good role player in the Nba,that's just amazing! :D

I guess he did nothing in Chicago huh?

KnicksorBust
03-24-2014, 02:57 PM
OK #1 he may not have been as successful but he's a fantastic player. You could argue on a bad team with a bad coach he runs rampant and puts up more aesthetic raw numbers.

Tony Parker has led the league in points in the paint. Come on. You're saying he's doing that without the Spurs running "loop" for him for 5 years straight? If you don't know what loop is then please youtube it. That and the Triangle are being put in by my team next season. :)


#2) I'm not taking away from his legacy I'm saying people are overlooking that the SPurs had a top ten player all time. It definitely helps a coach to have that kind of a building block.

The problem that I have is that people look at guys like Phil Jackson and Gregg Poppovich and the first thing that they want to do is name their rosters. My counter would be, what level of success would they need to accomplish for you to finally give them credit? It's not like Pop hasn't won with different starting lineups or that he relies on Duncan to carry them by playing heavy minutes. Personally, I'm concerned that if Duncan had played for Riley he'd be out of the league by now. Only Pop could maintain this level of success resting his entire team all season long.


#3) Pops is obviously better All-Time. But I just think the past couple years I'm more impressed with Thibs job on the Bulls. His ability to keep that team competitive over and over is insane. I felt like the Bulls beating the Nets last year was masterful in the same way LeBron taking the Cavs to the finals was. Yes it ultimately was a failure in the grand scheme of things but they had no business being where they are. Same this year. That Bulls team is so devoid of true offensive talent yet they are fighting for the third seed? Yes I know it's the East but regardless. His best player is a "Hustle" guy. D.J. Augustine who was cut leads them in scoring with 14.3 points per game. (An NBA worst.)

It's virtually impossible for Pop to have done a better job... He was a Ray Allen 3 from a title and they currently have the best record in the NBA.

And in regards to DJ, that is very misleading leaving out the real leaders of that team in Joakim Noah, Butler, Gibson, etc. Without Thibs, lottery pick Noah is still a elite defender. Without Pop, I'm not sure Tony Parker ever makes an all-star game.