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View Full Version : Whats the More Important Aspect Of The Game? All Around Game or Scoring?



RocketLoc80
03-19-2014, 07:23 PM
This seems like it`s real tug of war here. People have often said an all around game can get you places but being a scorer is the most dominant aspect of the game. But seems like players like Lebron,KG and Pippen where looked down upon because of their all around game but Jordan had an all around game later in his career but he lunged in the ultimate scorers tier with Kobe.Melo and Durant and seems every body wants to have scorers on their teams instead of all around players.So what is really the more important aspect of the game?

flea
03-19-2014, 07:27 PM
All aspects are important, some more than others for various reasons. Efficient scoring is the most important because it's the most difficult to find. Post defense/rim protection is probably 2nd, especially since the implementation of zone and elmination of hand-checking. These are most important to GMs, but not in winning games. All that matters to winning is scoring more points than the other team, and a lot of factors go into that.

All else equal, I'd rather have an all-around player than a pure scorer. It's the difference between a Mike Trout and a Chris Davis type in baseball - one has skills that virtually ensure he never slumps or has a bad game. The other guy can be lights out one day and off the next, because he's really only good at one thing.

abe_froman
03-19-2014, 07:29 PM
a couple questions...
1.how were lebron,kg and pippen looked down upon
2.why isnt lebron,kg,pippen not scorers(lebron and kg especially)in your eyes?

Bruno
03-19-2014, 07:29 PM
it depends on the team around the given player of discussion. its about making those five pieces fit.

another question could be, which is easier to build around given todays players and skill sets?

NBA_Starter
03-19-2014, 07:33 PM
Not that scoring is easy by any means but I tend to lean toward All Around Game in most cases.

RocketLoc80
03-19-2014, 07:34 PM
a couple questions...
1.how were lebron,kg and pippen looked down upon
2.why isnt lebron,kg,pippen not scorers(lebron and kg especially)in your eyes?

It`s the public perception that Lebron and KG don`t have the same impact on the game as say Kobe ,Durant and Duncan because they are considered more of a scoring threats. Kobe and Durant more so but I think the whole logic is BS to me because all factors are important but you have Stephan A Smith and Skip Bayless and their fandoms of the world thinking that scoring is the most and the only important aspect of the game they gloss and dyckride Melo,Durant,Kobe etc and don`t give people like Lebron,KG, CP3 and Pippen their just due.

P&GRealist
03-19-2014, 07:36 PM
Not that scoring is easy by any means but I tend to lean toward All Around Game in most cases.

But when you got a guy who have all round game, the others tend to relax and expect for shots and opportunities to be created for them by that 1 player, and then that burden grows on that 1 player.

So sometimes, in the big framework of things, having a guy who can specialize in scoring may be the better route when it comes to assigning roles to players on a team.

beyourself
03-19-2014, 07:37 PM
I say all around game because they mesh with other players on the team better. Teams with Melo type players will always be less than the sum of their parts.

abe_froman
03-19-2014, 07:41 PM
It`s the public perception that Lebron and KG don`t have the same impact on the game as say Kobe ,Durant and Duncan because they are considered more of a scoring threats. Kobe and Durant more so but I think the whole logic is BS to me because all factors are important but you have Stephan A Smith and Skip Bayless and their fandoms of the world thinking that scoring is the most and the only important aspect of the game they gloss and dyckride Melo,Durant,Kobe etc and don`t give people like Lebron,KG, CP3 and Pippen their just due.
how dont they? lebron has been widely praised,called best in the league,ect. for years upon years,same with kg in his prime....wait duncan is more of a scoring threat than lebron...i...just wow,i have no idea where your getting your info to form your opinions.honestly i've never heard anything like that ever.

well ok,your getting your info from them and thinking thats wide/majority opinion? i see your problem.

Supreme LA
03-19-2014, 07:44 PM
It really depends on what your team needs. As someone who plays myself, I pride myself on being an all around player who can do it on both ends. I know 5 all around players will beat 5 scoters anyway but that's just from my own experience.

RocketLoc80
03-19-2014, 07:54 PM
It really depends on what your team needs. As someone who plays myself, I pride myself on being an all around player who can do it on both ends. I know 5 all around players will beat 5 scoters anyway but that's just from my own experience.

So why do you hate Lebron`s game>?

SPURSFAN1
03-19-2014, 08:03 PM
So why do you hate Lebron`s game>?

I think it has to do with taking the last shot. All great players have the ball in their hands.

beyourself
03-19-2014, 08:11 PM
Remember back in the early 2000s when everybody tried to be Jordan? Jacking insane amount of shots. Stackhouse, T-Mac, Iverson, Carter. How did that work out?

Supreme LA
03-19-2014, 08:16 PM
So why do you hate Lebron`s game>?

Who said I hate Lebron's game???

Sure, I hate his constant flopping because I don't believe the best player in the league should do it. I also don't think someone as big and strong as he is should act like he's been shot everytime there is slight contact or no contact. Is that wrong? It's terrible for the game.

And sure I pick at his game because so many Lebron fans think he's perfect when he's not. He has tremendous gifts as a player but he is flawed in many areas of the game when it comes to mechanics and fundamentals. So no, I don't hate Lebron's game.

Let's not make this about hating on Lebron because that's not what I came in here to do. I made one statement about preferring an all around player and you're the one who brought up Lebron's game. I just simply responded to you.

KingPosey
03-19-2014, 08:16 PM
a couple questions...
1.how were lebron,kg and pippen looked down upon
2.why isnt lebron,kg,pippen not scorers(lebron and kg especially)in your eyes?

3. Jordan wasn't an all around player till the end of his career?
4. He almost looks like he hasn't watched any of these ayers throughout their careers based on how he identifies them as players.

MickeyMgl
03-19-2014, 08:17 PM
How could anything be more important than scoring? I'm not saying there's nothing else that's important, but how could anything be more important than the very thing that wins the game??

Jamiecballer
03-19-2014, 08:28 PM
This seems like it`s real tug of war here. People have often said an all around game can get you places but being a scorer is the most dominant aspect of the game. But seems like players like Lebron,KG and Pippen where looked down upon because of their all around game but Jordan had an all around game later in his career but he lunged in the ultimate scorers tier with Kobe.Melo and Durant and seems every body wants to have scorers on their teams instead of all around players.So what is really the more important aspect of the game?

no offense but this is one of the dumbest questions ever posed. scoring is like 15% of the game in my estimation.

3RDASYSTEM
03-19-2014, 08:40 PM
All aspects are important, some more than others for various reasons. Efficient scoring is the most important because it's the most difficult to find. Post defense/rim protection is probably 2nd, especially since the implementation of zone and elmination of hand-checking. These are most important to GMs, but not in winning games. All that matters to winning is scoring more points than the other team, and a lot of factors go into that.

All else equal, I'd rather have an all-around player than a pure scorer. It's the difference between a Mike Trout and a Chris Davis type in baseball - one has skills that virtually ensure he never slumps or has a bad game. The other guy can be lights out one day and off the next, because he's really only good at one thing.

efficient is not the most important, quick tricking yourself and rest of your psd peers into thinking that ********

the most important hands down number 1 are the 'best' players, period, Center type 2way like WILT-SHAQ-ALCINDOR-DREAM and so on but its only a handful of guards worth taking at all very high like a MAGIC/IVERSON/JORDAN/ZEKE, in that league of best players

however that plays out is up to the player itself being better and impacting the game when watching the performance

RUSSELL wasn't known for being efficient in the old old 60's of the nba was he? but wasn't he a 11x nba ring winner and a rebound machine as well as being a juggernaut defender? so much for your most overrated important aspect, being efficient is now the new sexy of today's forum talk, can you imagine talking about being efficient in the 60's or 80's or 90's? but I bet you can imagine them talking about 'winning' and who is the 'best' players of they era

efficient scoring comes from either taking 10 shots and under per game, meaning no pressure what so ever or your team is pretty good (plus your are superstar player)or you are just not capable of scoring at high clip so you don't over shoot, like a person who can shoot 3's shouldn't be taking them like a D ROSE who only attempted like 10(or made) his rookie year not because of his inability to get off 3's but because he isn't that good at shooting from 3 and decent on mid range so im sure he took more of those shots

CP3 is efficient player right(he has to be its all I read on here for most part)? but no matter what he did in N.O. he would always be efficient until he took on the task of taking over a playoff series scoring wise, which he is not capable of doing scoring wise so he will pick and choose his shooting/scoring to look and be more efficient but they wouldn't advance because they were only going as far as he carried them both scoring/playmaking

same as KD last yr in the playoffs without his star sidekick, but it was the opposite for KD because he can actually take over and drop 40-50 game in and out but it was playoffs and it was easier to key in on him and make him extremely less EFFICIENT than his usual self, and just to think they were in all those games pretty much but he just couldn't make the plays rather efficient or not and it doesn't take away from KD as a player because he was the best individual player in that series rather he shot 25pct or 55pct from the field

NASH was so efficient with PHX but he couldn't never get them over the hump because I guess he was scared to shoot too much to mess up his efficiency or was he just not capable of carrying a heavy scoring load and just did what he did best which was to over pass? he was the same player in LA as he was in PHX with the back probs and all but just older and newer injured, they brought in NASH to run a offense but forgot the entire offense was the ran by the guy SHAQ called a ballhog and PHIL called uncoachable so how in the hell were they expecting to run a smooth offensive attack, please CHRONZ answer why bean Bryant forgot to run a offense and just took the post from PAU/BYNUM/HOWARD and the assists numbers away from NASH? I know you are not CHRONZ but I had to throw that one out there

2nd is somebody to sell tickets and jerseys home and road and international

and you keep TROUT and i'll take GRIFFEY/BONDS/MIGGY all day everyday, all that all around game with the HR power(mlb version of scoring points) and defense, like I said you have to be crazy to feel efficient is most important...TROUT bats 1st while GRIFFEY/BONDS/MIGGY bat 3rd, go thru the history of the mlb and tell me who has won more MVP's, the leadoff hitter or the 3rd batter in lineup? i'm guessing and I bet i'm right on cue

TROUT should be batting 3rd with PUJOLS/HAMILTON if he was that dude, GRIFFEY/BONDS would have still batted 3rd with those guys, moving those guys down in the lineup, same with BONDS

its about players(best) who can make plays and execute as a team with the surrounding cast no matter where the ball moves to...see SPURS for most legit proof of today

its not too many dominate scorers who can get 8apg at same time like a JORDAN/IVERSON out the backcourt while racking up 30ppg, that right there is a supreme super combo guard, plus they led the league in steals per game at times, you would have to go get one of the best big men ever to trump that from a backcourt perspective, filthy those 2 were no matter the efficient level

Who would you rather have BIRD vs BRON? and don't say because of no ****ing efficiency, that sounds flat out just bball dense headed to say the least, pick the player who you feel is the better to you, like picking a women of your choice nowadays

its either you like BIRD's all around game better or the fact that BRON can drop 30straight pts in a conference finals all the chips are down type game to go along with his killer all around game?

who do you take DREXLER or JORDAN? its a lot closer than you think pre JORDAN rings, all around game it was pretty even, along with NIQUE also and whats so funny is they both had mediahyped nicknames but didn't win a title so they didn't get the proper big time nba promo like JORDAN, JORDAN just won more scoring titles and scoring(even dunking) it equal to HR in mlb, the chicks dig it and the d boys glad to see someone make it and showcase the talent on the biggest 'stage'

now I think about it, RINGS are the most important

see PHIL new prez of KNICKS for proof, it will attract all superstars because not only did he do it as a coach, he did it 2x as a player and hearing how RILEY just threw his rings on the table to whoo BRON, im sure 6 rings don't compare to 13 so when PHIL throws his rings on the table its a ****ing wrap , 10x over

RINGS are the most important aspect

another 3RDASYSTEM bball lesson 101

P&GRealist
03-19-2014, 08:43 PM
efficient is not the most important, quick tricking yourself and rest of your psd peers into thinking that ********

the most important hands down number 1 are the 'best' players, period, Center type 2way like WILT-SHAQ-ALCINDOR-DREAM and so on but its only a handful of guards worth taking at all very high like a MAGIC/IVERSON/JORDAN/ZEKE, in that league of best players

however that plays out is up to the player itself being better and impacting the game when watching the performance

RUSSELL wasn't known for being efficient in the old old 60's of the nba was he? but wasn't he a 11x nba ring winner and a rebound machine as well as being a juggernaut defender? so much for your most overrated important aspect, being efficient is now the new sexy of today's forum talk, can you imagine talking about being efficient in the 60's or 80's or 90's? but I bet you can imagine them talking about 'winning' and who is the 'best' players of they era

efficient scoring comes from either taking 10 shots and under per game, meaning no pressure what so ever and your team is pretty good or you are just not capable of scoring so you don't over shoot

CP3 is efficient player right? no matter what he did in N.O. he would always be efficient until he took on the task of taking over a playoff series, which he is not capable of doing scoring wise so he will pick and choose his shooting/scoring to look and be more efficient, same as KD last yr in the playoffs without his star sidekick, but it was the opposite for KD because he can actually take over and drop 40-50 game in and out but it was playoffs and it was easier to key in on him and make him extremely less EFFICIENT than his usual self, and just to think they were in all those games pretty much but he just couldn't make the plays rather efficient or not and it doesn't take away from KD as a player because he was the best individual player in that series rather he shot 25pct or 55pct from the field...NASH was so efficient with PHX but he couldn't never get them over the hump because I guess he was scared to shoot too much to mess up his efficiency or was he just not capable of carrying a heavy scoring load and just did what he did best which was to over pass?

2nd is somebody to sell tickets and jerseys home and road and international

and you keep TROUT and i'll take GRIFFEY/BONDS/MIGGY all day everyday, all that all around game with the HR power(mlb version of scoring points) and defense, like I said you have to be crazy to feel efficient is most important...TROUT bats 1st while GRIFFEY/BONDS/MIGGY bat 3rd, go thru the history of the mlb and tell me who has won more MVP's, the leadoff hitter or the 3rd batter in lineup? i'm guessing and I bet i'm right on cue

TROUT should be batting 3rd with PUJOLS/HAMILTON if he was that dude, GRIFFEY/BONDS would have still batted 3rd with those guys, moving those guys down in the lineup, same with BONDS

its about players(best) who can make plays and execute as a team with the surrounding cast no matter where the ball moves to...see SPURS for most legit proof of today

its not too many dominate scorers who can get 8apg at same time like a JORDAN/IVERSON out the backcourt while racking up 30ppg, that right there is a supreme super combo guard, plus they led the league in steals per game at times, you would have to go get one of the best big men ever to trump that from a backcourt perspective, filthy those 2 were no matter the efficient level

Who would you rather have BIRD vs BRON? and don't say because of no ****ing efficiency, that sounds flat out just bball dense headed to say the least, pick the player who you feel is the better to you, like picking a women of your choice nowadays

its either you like BIRD's all around game better or the fact that BRON can drop 30straight pts in a conference finals all the chips are down type game to go along with his killer all around game?

who do you take DREXLER or JORDAN? its a lot closer than you think pre JORDAN rings, all around game it was pretty even, along with NIQUE also and whats so funny is they both had mediahyped nicknames but didn't win a title so they didn't get the proper big time nba promo like JORDAN, JORDAN just won more scoring titles and scoring(even dunking) it equal to HR in mlb, the chicks dig it and the d boys glad to see someone make it and showcase the talent on the biggest 'stage'

now I think about it, RINGS are the most important

see PHIL new prez of KNICKS for proof, it will attract all superstars because not only did he do it as a coach, he did it 2x as a player and hearing how RILEY just threw his rings on the table to whoo BRON, im sure 6 rings don't compare to 13 so when PHIL throws his rings on the table its a ****ing wrap , 10x over

RINGS are the most important aspect

another 3RDASYSTEM bball lesson 101

I never did well understanding the lectures of professors from a foreign country. Always needed a translator and someone who would record and transcribe the notes to me in college if that was the case.

Jamiecballer
03-19-2014, 08:53 PM
efficient is not the most important, quick tricking yourself and rest of your psd peers into thinking that ********

the most important hands down number 1 are the 'best' players, period, Center type 2way like WILT-SHAQ-ALCINDOR-DREAM and so on but its only a handful of guards worth taking at all very high like a MAGIC/IVERSON/JORDAN/ZEKE, in that league of best players

however that plays out is up to the player itself being better and impacting the game when watching the performance

RUSSELL wasn't known for being efficient in the old old 60's of the nba was he? but wasn't he a 11x nba ring winner and a rebound machine as well as being a juggernaut defender? so much for your most overrated important aspect, being efficient is now the new sexy of today's forum talk, can you imagine talking about being efficient in the 60's or 80's or 90's? but I bet you can imagine them talking about 'winning' and who is the 'best' players of they era

efficient scoring comes from either taking 10 shots and under per game, meaning no pressure what so ever and your team is pretty good or you are just not capable of scoring so you don't over shoot

CP3 is efficient player right? no matter what he did in N.O. he would always be efficient until he took on the task of taking over a playoff series, which he is not capable of doing scoring wise so he will pick and choose his shooting/scoring to look and be more efficient, same as KD last yr in the playoffs without his star sidekick, but it was the opposite for KD because he can actually take over and drop 40-50 game in and out but it was playoffs and it was easier to key in on him and make him extremely less EFFICIENT than his usual self, and just to think they were in all those games pretty much but he just couldn't make the plays rather efficient or not and it doesn't take away from KD as a player because he was the best individual player in that series rather he shot 25pct or 55pct from the field...NASH was so efficient with PHX but he couldn't never get them over the hump because I guess he was scared to shoot too much to mess up his efficiency or was he just not capable of carrying a heavy scoring load and just did what he did best which was to over pass?

2nd is somebody to sell tickets and jerseys home and road and international

and you keep TROUT and i'll take GRIFFEY/BONDS/MIGGY all day everyday, all that all around game with the HR power(mlb version of scoring points) and defense, like I said you have to be crazy to feel efficient is most important...TROUT bats 1st while GRIFFEY/BONDS/MIGGY bat 3rd, go thru the history of the mlb and tell me who has won more MVP's, the leadoff hitter or the 3rd batter in lineup? i'm guessing and I bet i'm right on cue

TROUT should be batting 3rd with PUJOLS/HAMILTON if he was that dude, GRIFFEY/BONDS would have still batted 3rd with those guys, moving those guys down in the lineup, same with BONDS

its about players(best) who can make plays and execute as a team with the surrounding cast no matter where the ball moves to...see SPURS for most legit proof of today

its not too many dominate scorers who can get 8apg at same time like a JORDAN/IVERSON out the backcourt while racking up 30ppg, that right there is a supreme super combo guard, plus they led the league in steals per game at times, you would have to go get one of the best big men ever to trump that from a backcourt perspective, filthy those 2 were no matter the efficient level

Who would you rather have BIRD vs BRON? and don't say because of no ****ing efficiency, that sounds flat out just bball dense headed to say the least, pick the player who you feel is the better to you, like picking a women of your choice nowadays

its either you like BIRD's all around game better or the fact that BRON can drop 30straight pts in a conference finals all the chips are down type game to go along with his killer all around game?

who do you take DREXLER or JORDAN? its a lot closer than you think pre JORDAN rings, all around game it was pretty even, along with NIQUE also and whats so funny is they both had mediahyped nicknames but didn't win a title so they didn't get the proper big time nba promo like JORDAN, JORDAN just won more scoring titles and scoring(even dunking) it equal to HR in mlb, the chicks dig it and the d boys glad to see someone make it and showcase the talent on the biggest 'stage'

now I think about it, RINGS are the most important

see PHIL new prez of KNICKS for proof, it will attract all superstars because not only did he do it as a coach, he did it 2x as a player and hearing how RILEY just threw his rings on the table to whoo BRON, im sure 6 rings don't compare to 13 so when PHIL throws his rings on the table its a ****ing wrap , 10x over

RINGS are the most important aspect

another 3RDASYSTEM bball lesson 101

you seem thoroughly confused when it comes to basketball but i love the passion. your posts are always entertaining as hell.

Hawkeye15
03-19-2014, 08:56 PM
It`s the public perception that Lebron and KG don`t have the same impact on the game as say Kobe ,Durant and Duncan because they are considered more of a scoring threats. Kobe and Durant more so but I think the whole logic is BS to me because all factors are important but you have Stephan A Smith and Skip Bayless and their fandoms of the world thinking that scoring is the most and the only important aspect of the game they gloss and dyckride Melo,Durant,Kobe etc and don`t give people like Lebron,KG, CP3 and Pippen their just due.

no it's not.

3RDASYSTEM
03-19-2014, 08:59 PM
you seem thoroughly confused when it comes to basketball but i love the passion. your posts are always entertaining as hell.

Yo psd Einstein and alberts alike, copy and paste any quote I just made and show me where im confused at, its nothing but a bball debate

that's easy for those who are passionate and play and knew of people who played on the professional level

how the **** is that confusion? explain if you are not confused by your own thoughts

I said most important aspect was 'best' players now go back and check MIKAN/WILT/WEST/OSCAR from the 50's and 60's and tell me how can I be confused unless you are mistaken the sports topic yourself? and then check the 70's and 80's and 90's and 00's for how the most important aspect has been the 'best players', stacked teams galore throughout nba history, not just now with this ******** mediahyped HEAT superteam ,its nothing new under the sun all recycled nba history

3RDASYSTEM
03-19-2014, 09:07 PM
I never did well understanding the lectures of professors from a foreign country. Always needed a translator and someone who would record and transcribe the notes to me in college if that was the case.

well at least you did attend the big boy prison of schools, college

congrats on that, now tell me what did I say that didn't happen in my foreign country professor post?

lol, please
03-19-2014, 09:18 PM
This seems like it`s real tug of war here. People have often said an all around game can get you places but being a scorer is the most dominant aspect of the game. But seems like players like Lebron,KG and Pippen where looked down upon because of their all around game but Jordan had an all around game later in his career but he lunged in the ultimate scorers tier with Kobe.Melo and Durant and seems every body wants to have scorers on their teams instead of all around players.So what is really the more important aspect of the game?efficiency at what you do on the court.

Bostonjorge
03-19-2014, 09:22 PM
I think unstoppable scorers are at the very top. They don't need any help to do what they do best and that's score. These type of players when given some help not overwhelming help will give u titles. Also on special nights these players can single handily win u a game.

RocketLoc80
03-19-2014, 09:39 PM
I think unstoppable scorers are at the very top. They don't need any help to do what they do best and that's score. These type of players when given some help not overwhelming help will give u titles. Also on special nights these players can single handily win u a game.

So you think scorers are a better aspect of the game than all around players?

jerellh528
03-19-2014, 09:44 PM
That's a weird question, if a player is good all around it means he a good scorer too.

Jamiecballer
03-19-2014, 10:58 PM
Yo psd Einstein and alberts alike, copy and paste any quote I just made and show me where im confused at, its nothing but a bball debate

that's easy for those who are passionate and play and knew of people who played on the professional level

how the **** is that confusion? explain if you are not confused by your own thoughts

I said most important aspect was 'best' players now go back and check MIKAN/WILT/WEST/OSCAR from the 50's and 60's and tell me how can I be confused unless you are mistaken the sports topic yourself? and then check the 70's and 80's and 90's and 00's for how the most important aspect has been the 'best players', stacked teams galore throughout nba history, not just now with this ******** mediahyped HEAT superteam ,its nothing new under the sun all recycled nba history

You are far far too easily swayed by what your eyes see, my man. Just because someone is doing something impressive on the court does not necessarily mean they are good at what they do.

The difference between you and I is that you stop looking for truth as soon as you turn off your TV after the Sunday afternoon game.

TorontoHuskies
03-19-2014, 11:20 PM
This seems like it`s real tug of war here. People have often said an all around game can get you places but being a scorer is the most dominant aspect of the game. But seems like players like Lebron,KG and Pippen where looked down upon because of their all around game but Jordan had an all around game later in his career but he lunged in the ultimate scorers tier with Kobe.Melo and Durant and seems every body wants to have scorers on their teams instead of all around players.So what is really the more important aspect of the game?

Defense is the most important thing in basketball...

Trwood12
03-19-2014, 11:20 PM
If a team that is 150% offense goes up against a team that is 25% offense 25% defense 25% know-how (B-ball IQ) and 25% power, then the more diverse team will win 9 times out of 10 because they will get more stops and play smarter. scoring is just a small part of the game of basketball.

ewing
03-19-2014, 11:45 PM
All aspects are important, some more than others for various reasons. Efficient scoring is the most important because it's the most difficult to find. Post defense/rim protection is probably 2nd, especially since the implementation of zone and elmination of hand-checking. These are most important to GMs, but not in winning games. All that matters to winning is scoring more points than the other team, and a lot of factors go into that.

All else equal, I'd rather have an all-around player than a pure scorer. It's the difference between a Mike Trout and a Chris Davis type in baseball - one has skills that virtually ensure he never slumps or has a bad game. The other guy can be lights out one day and off the next, because he's really only good at one thing.

On offense the most valuable thing you can do it break down D. Most efficient scorers are the invention of teammates that can break down D and make good decisions.

Bostonjorge
03-20-2014, 01:31 AM
So you think scorers are a better aspect of the game than all around players?

Not just scorers but unstable scores. There are different types of scorers. All around players are only superstars if they are specialist at other areas like shooting, D, rebounds ect.... Players listed so far as all around like KG and James are specialist in different areas especially on D. But elite scorers are at the top.

Example melo vs deng same position. Melo is a elite scorer after that deng has the advantage. Deng better on D, better rebounder, passer and can score.Yet Melo is the better player because of his scoring.

Example Durant vs James. Durant only advantage is scoring after that James does everything else better. Yet Durant is neck and neck this year with James.

TheMightyHumph
03-20-2014, 03:08 AM
This seems like it`s real tug of war here. People have often said an all around game can get you places but being a scorer is the most dominant aspect of the game. But seems like players like Lebron,KG and Pippen where looked down upon because of their all around game but Jordan had an all around game later in his career but he lunged in the ultimate scorers tier with Kobe.Melo and Durant and seems every body wants to have scorers on their teams instead of all around players.So what is really the more important aspect of the game?

Depends on what kind of team the player is on.

MickeyMgl
03-20-2014, 05:27 AM
I must've misunderstood the question. I took it at face value.

"What's the more important part of the game? All around game or scoring?"

I didn't read it as "a player's game", or "strategy", or ways to win. I just read it as "the most important part of the game. In that context, it has to be scoring. That's the basis of the game.

I would answer differently as far as evaluating players or teams' keys to victory, etc. In that context, scoring by itself is overrated. In the context of "the game", however, it's all about scoring! OK, and preventing scoring.

PhillyFaninLA
03-20-2014, 05:46 AM
You take 5 scores, I take 5 all around players (all players equal skill) and I win everytime....part of an all around game is the ability to put up points so we can match you, but we'll out rebound you, play better defense, block more shots, and likely to have better intagibles but thats not really measurable here.

D-Leethal
03-20-2014, 07:32 AM
Just like Phil said on Tuesday and ewing reiterated. Breaking down the defense, be it via PnR, isolation dribble drive, entry passing is the most important aspect of the game and the domino's all fall from there.

ewing
03-20-2014, 10:08 AM
Just like Phil said on Tuesday and ewing reiterated. Breaking down the defense, be it via PnR, isolation dribble drive, entry passing is the most important aspect of the game and the domino's all fall from there.


its pretty simple. When do teams score efficiently? When they can make easy shots. How to you get easy shots? Someone, breaks down D and gets you the rock. Weather, they get it to you by pushing tempo and moving the ball before D is set, by drawing a double on a screen roll and delivering a pocket pass, or by making the defense collapse to defend the post your shot is result of team basketball and a teammate or teammates that breaks down D. People look at the game one on one too much

bagwell368
03-20-2014, 10:25 AM
Not that scoring is easy by any means but I tend to lean toward All Around Game in most cases.

One easy way to figure the answer is overload...

Say a team with 4 all round players and 1 scorer vs a team with 4 scorers and 1 all around - and those teams must play together for 10 years, playing a full NBA schedule, no additions or subtractions.

The answer is easy. Now make it 3/2 vs 2/3. Tougher, but I'll staill take the 3/2 team. OK 4/1 vs 3/2 - very tough call w/o knowing more.

I don't think it's a clear thing, but in this yin/yang battle. having more "glue" and "teamwork" is better to watch and better for team health than less of those things and more scoring skill/effort. After all 1 ball and 5 guys. What are the 4 scorers doing when the other has the ball? Setting picks, cutting? Or just waiting around to get the ball? It's not really defined, but, in practice all around guys were coached well from day 1.

Bird dove on the floor a lot of times, and set a lot of picks, and battled for rebounds vs 7 footers and some very nasty players, passed the ball like a PG - WTH is Carmelo's excuse? He couldn't shoot as well as Bird. So, how's that for a rule? Until you shoot as well as Bird, don't act like a prima donna.

ewing
03-20-2014, 02:00 PM
One easy way to figure the answer is overload...

Say a team with 4 all round players and 1 scorer vs a team with 4 scorers and 1 all around - and those teams must play together for 10 years, playing a full NBA schedule, no additions or subtractions.

The answer is easy. Now make it 3/2 vs 2/3. Tougher, but I'll staill take the 3/2 team. OK 4/1 vs 3/2 - very tough call w/o knowing more.

I don't think it's a clear thing, but in this yin/yang battle. having more "glue" and "teamwork" is better to watch and better for team health than less of those things and more scoring skill/effort. After all 1 ball and 5 guys. What are the 4 scorers doing when the other has the ball? Setting picks, cutting? Or just waiting around to get the ball? It's not really defined, but, in practice all around guys were coached well from day 1.

Bird dove on the floor a lot of times, and set a lot of picks, and battled for rebounds vs 7 footers and some very nasty players, passed the ball like a PG - WTH is Carmelo's excuse? He couldn't shoot as well as Bird. So, how's that for a rule? Until you shoot as well as Bird, don't act like a prima donna.


i don't even think its a debate. if scoring was that much more important then everything else guys like Harold Miner would be wanted. There are a lot of guys that can put the ball in the hole that aren't good enough to play on the NBA level. If you made Jimmer your starting 2 and paired him with a solid PG he'd get buckets. everyone focuses on scoring but if you cant guard your position you aren't a FT NBA player. mike francesa was talking about Doug McDermott the other day. He said the question is can he defend a good 3 or a good 4 on the NBA level. If he can he is a legit lotto guy. If he can't, well he'll be a solid role player. I agree. Dude can score. I don't know if i want him checking Z-bo or Paul George though forgot Bron and KD

bagwell368
03-20-2014, 02:48 PM
RUSSELL wasn't known for being efficient in the old old 60's of the nba was he? but wasn't he a 11x nba ring winner and a rebound machine as well as being a juggernaut defender? so much for your most overrated important aspect, being efficient is now the new sexy of today's forum talk, can you imagine talking about being efficient in the 60's or 80's or 90's? but I bet you can imagine them talking about 'winning' and who is the 'best' players of they era

As usual, you're way off. Russell was a below average FT shooter for his time, a slightly above FG shooter for his time, the best defender by far, either the 1st or 2nd best rebounder once Wilt showed up, and probably the best passing Center in the league for at least 5 years. That's an around player. Russell's least important aspect was scoring or scoring efficiency - so why are you trying to use him for an example?


efficient scoring comes from either taking 10 shots and under per game, meaning no pressure what so ever or your team is pretty good (plus your are superstar player)or you are just not capable of scoring at high clip so you don't over shoot, like a person who can shoot 3's shouldn't be taking them like a D ROSE who only attempted like 10(or made) his rookie year not because of his inability to get off 3's but because he isn't that good at shooting from 3 and decent on mid range so im sure he took more of those shots

Utter rubbish. Go check on Wilt's FGA & FGM, or how about Kevin McHale?


another 3RDASYSTEM bball lesson 101

And more triage by people that actually understand the game to clean up the damage...

ewing
03-20-2014, 03:02 PM
and we just saw why Arron Craft is not an NBA player. Dribbled down and shot over.

slashsnake
03-20-2014, 03:39 PM
Tough one. Every situation is different. Outside of scoring Rondo is probably the best PG in the league. But I think that team would be much better with an elite scorer there instead. I think he needs scorers to be an effective winner.

And you have guys that have been listed here that can score, but are so lacking in other area's they can't get consistent minutes.

bagwell368
03-21-2014, 09:09 AM
Tough one. Every situation is different. Outside of scoring Rondo is probably the best PG in the league. But I think that team would be much better with an elite scorer there instead. I think he needs scorers to be an effective winner.

And you have guys that have been listed here that can score, but are so lacking in other area's they can't get consistent minutes.

Rondo's on ball D has taken a major tumble since the end of 2011-2012, as has his playing time, and his usual 1/2 azzed play in about 20 games per season too.

But no, you don't need an elite scorer at PG to win. You don't need an elite scorer at any specific position to win although typically one of your top 2 scorers is either at 2 or 3.

torocan
03-21-2014, 09:51 AM
This argument isn't really one that can be resolved. It depends a TON on the team in question.

As for the 5 scorers vs 5 all around players, it's a silly argument as you aren't saying how good offensively the "all around" player is going to be.

Let's change this comparison a little bit for example. I'll take 5 Elite scorers that are impossible to defend one on one, you take 5 above average to good scorers with all around games. Who wins? You could just as easily argue the Elite scorers win since there are players that can get to the basket and shoot over just about anyone if you let them touch the ball.

Similarly, the 5 "all around" vs 5 "scorers" makes no sense for another reason, you don't actually *need* 5 elite scorers on the team. There isn't enough shots to go around to make efficient use of all 5. However, if you don't have *any* Elite scorers, you have almost *no* chance of going far in the play offs (2004 Pistons being the lone exception).

However, if you were to ask a coach to choose a SINGLE player to fill ONE spot on a typical team, and ask them to choose between a truly ELITE scorer versus an average to above average "all around" player, I think 10/10 times they choose the Elite scorer.

The reason is simple -- an Elite scorer is a Star/All star. An average/above average all around player is a ROLE PLAYER or at best a fringe all star.

Yes, you need more role players than Stars (you just can't afford a roster of 12 all stars), but it's not an accident that there is a premium on players able to Create their own shot... especially those that are virtually unguardable one on one.

There is a premium on scoring because ultimately you win by putting the most points on the board. That and there are a LOT more players who can play defense than who can score well enough to demand any kind of double teams. It's why guys like Patrick Beverley make the money that they do (minimum to not that much more),

Every aspect of the game is important. It's hard to win it all without good defense, or good offense, or rebounding, etc, etc. However, high level scoring is significantly more rare, especially as defenses have become smarter and more efficient.