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View Full Version : Dumars the next GM of the Cleveland Cavaliers?



RipCity32
03-16-2014, 04:12 PM
Reports are Dumars is expected to resign at seasons end. Even if he doesnt resign, His contract is up at the end of the season. The owner has shut him down mid way through the season and wouldnt even allow him to make anymore moves at the deadline. The owner even fired Cheeks which was Joes newest coach hire halfway through the season even though Joe tried talking him out of it. If it wasnt for the fact that Dumars is Pistons royalty he probably would have been fired with him. So now it looks like we are just letting his contract expire to go our separate ways peacefully.

With that said Dumars is close with Gilbert. I believe they are even next door neighbors and Gilbert also has strong ties to the city of Detroit. I feel certain that they already have a deal in place for Joe in the offseason.

I think Joe is terrible anymore but Will the Cavs try to reach for him hoping he still has some of that magic left that he showed when he was at the beginning of his GM career with the Pistons?

P&GRealist
03-16-2014, 04:22 PM
The Cavs have no clue wtf they're doing.

abe_froman
03-16-2014, 04:27 PM
i doubt it

RipCity32
03-16-2014, 04:47 PM
Dumars was pretty good when he first took over. He made some good trades and probably just got lucky most of all. But I feel he was at his best at first because he had no emotional attachments to his roster and made the appropriate moves. But as time went on he held onto his own players for too long until they had no value left and gets a really overates his own draft picks. He might be alright walking into a whole new roster again but his moves recently have just been pure idiotic.

WITZ
03-16-2014, 04:53 PM
Reports are Dumars is expected to resign at seasons end. Even if he doesnt resign, His contract is up at the end of the season. The owner has shut him down mid way through the season and wouldnt even allow him to make anymore moves at the deadline. The owner even fired Cheeks which was Joes newest coach hire halfway through the season even though Joe tried talking him out of it. If it wasnt for the fact that Dumars is Pistons royalty he probably would have been fired with him. So now it looks like we are just letting his contract expire to go our separate ways peacefully.

With that said Dumars is close with Gilbert. I believe they are even next door neighbors and Gilbert also has strong ties to the city of Detroit. I feel certain that they already have a deal in place for Joe in the offseason.

I think Joe is terrible anymore but Will the Cavs try to reach for him hoping he still has some of that magic left that he showed when he was at the beginning of his GM career with the Pistons?

Any reason in particular you feel "certain" besides them being neighbors :laugh2: . But seriously Nooo please Nooooo.

RipCity32
03-16-2014, 05:09 PM
Any reason in particular you feel "certain" besides them being neighbors :laugh2: . But seriously Nooo please Nooooo.

Just a gut feeling dont panic yet. I really see it happening though. Then I predict Dumars will trade us Kyrie for Josh Smith lol.

JasonJohnHorn
03-16-2014, 05:21 PM
I stand by Joe D as a GM.

One of his biggest problems was ownerships refusal to pay. When Okur's contract was up, Davidson let him walk, not Joe, because Big Ben's contract was up the next season and Davidson didn't want to pay two bigs starting salary. Then he told Joe to let Wallace walk as well. Had the Pistons hung onto those two, the likely could have repeated as champs and had trading pieces down the line. That hurt the rebuilding process because they watched two assets walk away for nothing.

Dumars made two bad signings in Charlie V and Ben Gordon, I admit, but I give him a pass on the Darko pick: people pick bigs based on potential all the time and lose.


Other than that, Dumars has been consistently good in the draft: Singler, Monroe, Drummond, Prince, Amir, Maxiell. Some solid picks late in the first and second rounds. I was bummed that he passed on Klay and wasn't a big fan of the pick this year, but there wasn't much to pick from this year.

When he is allowed to spend money reasonable and retain talent, Dumars does well. The Josh Smith signing was good. Nobody had anyway of knowing that Smiths' FG% would drop that much in one year. The Jennings trade was bad.. but they didn't have a point guard and it was worth the gamble. It didn't pay off.


I think if Dumars was running a team like NY or LAL, he'd be hailed as a great coach, but his ownership has shot him in the foot more than once.


Dumars isn't the greatest GM on the planet, but the guy hasn't had a pick higher than 7 since the Pistons fell out of the playoffs.... and he's done pretty good considering most of the great talent is gone by that point.

Get him a couple of top 3 picks like OKC and POR and CLE have had and we'll see where the Pistons would be.

RipCity32
03-16-2014, 05:32 PM
I stand by Joe D as a GM.

One of his biggest problems was ownerships refusal to pay. When Okur's contract was up, Davidson let him walk, not Joe, because Big Ben's contract was up the next season and Davidson didn't want to pay two bigs starting salary. Then he told Joe to let Wallace walk as well. Had the Pistons hung onto those two, the likely could have repeated as champs and had trading pieces down the line. That hurt the rebuilding process because they watched two assets walk away for nothing.

Dumars made two bad signings in Charlie V and Ben Gordon, I admit, but I give him a pass on the Darko pick: people pick bigs based on potential all the time and lose.


Other than that, Dumars has been consistently good in the draft: Singler, Monroe, Drummond, Prince, Amir, Maxiell. Some solid picks late in the first and second rounds. I was bummed that he passed on Klay and wasn't a big fan of the pick this year, but there wasn't much to pick from this year.

When he is allowed to spend money reasonable and retain talent, Dumars does well. The Josh Smith signing was good. Nobody had anyway of knowing that Smiths' FG% would drop that much in one year. The Jennings trade was bad.. but they didn't have a point guard and it was worth the gamble. It didn't pay off.


I think if Dumars was running a team like NY or LAL, he'd be hailed as a great coach, but his ownership has shot him in the foot more than once.


Dumars isn't the greatest GM on the planet, but the guy hasn't had a pick higher than 7 since the Pistons fell out of the playoffs.... and he's done pretty good considering most of the great talent is gone by that point.

Get him a couple of top 3 picks like OKC and POR and CLE have had and we'll see where the Pistons would be.
I don't know how anyone couldn't see the Smith signing was terrible. He signed him as a #1 option at the 3 with two good Frontcourt players in the lineup. Smith has been givin the green light to go out and do his best Melo impersonation and look like a fool. It's to crowded and there's no floor spacing because we have no shooters and it's created a complete disaster on both sides of the ball.

He's never had a pick lower then 7th because he's reused to rebuild the team and kept trying to assemble 8th seed rosters that won't let the young guys touch the court.

NBA_Starter
03-16-2014, 05:47 PM
Can he take Josh Smith with him?

JasonJohnHorn
03-16-2014, 08:43 PM
I don't know how anyone couldn't see the Smith signing was terrible. He signed him as a #1 option at the 3 with two good Frontcourt players in the lineup. Smith has been givin the green light to go out and do his best Melo impersonation and look like a fool. It's to crowded and there's no floor spacing because we have no shooters and it's created a complete disaster on both sides of the ball.

He's never had a pick lower then 7th because he's reused to rebuild the team and kept trying to assemble 8th seed rosters that won't let the young guys touch the court.

He's been under pressure to get back into the post season from ownership every year. He hasn't been given the green light to just take on losses and develop the young players.

As for the Smith signing... Smith was a guy who played with Horford and got into the playoffs. I think Dumars thought that with Drummond and Monroe, Smith could start at SF and play some minutes at PF while Monroe was off the court, or when Drummond was off the court and Monroe was at C. It is a tricky rotation work work, but There are almost a 100 minutes a game at PF and C combined. There is not reason a coach can't work out a rotation that gets Drummond and Smith about 30 minutes a game at C and PF and still allow Monroe to play as many minutes at C or PF.

As for shooters.... again, I wish he'd drafted Klay Thompson instead of Knight and that he never brought Jennings in, but he did draft Singler who can shoot the ball and he brought over one of the best shooters from Europe in Luigi, who just hasn't worked out (but it was a creative signing) and Jerebko. These guys can shoot and spread the floor.


I'm just saying that Dumars's performance has been impacted by ownership. Ownership wanted to be in the playoffs last year. They want to be in the playoffs this year. Dumars got cocckblocked at the trade deadline this year, and if he hadn't used the cap space to pick up Smith, it would have been used up this year signing Monroe and he would have let that caps space go by unused. Now at least, he has a trade asset.

I'm not in love with the Smith signing, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that I don't think anybody would have expected him to shoot THIS low.


If Dumars had ownership like Orlando, where they just accepted: look, this team is going to be bad for two years. We'll deal with that, develop our young players, get some draft picks via trade and clear up some cap space, then he would be in a different situations right now. But ownership put pressure on him to get back into the playoff asap, which made the team better and got the late lottery picks. Is that on Dumars?


People fail to realize how much pressure goes onto to a GM from ownership. Davidson let Okur and Big Ben walk because he didn't want to pay them, and Dumars STILL put a team together, losing two key rotation players and getting nothing back in return, to the conference finals. And kept them in the playoffs because ownwership thought they could still win with that core and wouldn't let Dumars blow it up. The team should have been blown up in 06. Davidson wouldn't let him. Then when the team gets bad, people put it on Dumars. Now you say he didn't lose enough? But his ownership was pushing for a playoff spot. What's he supposed to do.


If ownership let him do his job, this team would be in a much better position right now. Let's not put it all on Joe D.

NBA_Starter
03-16-2014, 09:33 PM
They should keep Joe D, let's start a petition.

TheMightyHumph
03-16-2014, 09:43 PM
I don't know how anyone couldn't see the Smith signing was terrible. He signed him as a #1 option at the 3 with two good Frontcourt players in the lineup. Smith has been givin the green light to go out and do his best Melo impersonation and look like a fool. It's to crowded and there's no floor spacing because we have no shooters and it's created a complete disaster on both sides of the ball.

He's never had a pick lower then 7th because he's reused to rebuild the team and kept trying to assemble 8th seed rosters that won't let the young guys touch the court.

How do you think the Pistons would be doing if they went after Milsap instead of Josh (death to any franchise) Smith?

DetroitBadBoy
03-16-2014, 10:07 PM
Can't go anywhere without a good coach. Add maybe ONE more shooter and I think a good coach can make Detroit a decent playoff team.

As for Joe D, restrictions from Karen Davidson and pressure from Tom Gores has tainted his legacy. Like I said above though, can't go anywhere without a good coach and he hasn't had a great track record with that.

sunsfan88
03-17-2014, 12:49 AM
Lol sure why not, Dan Gilbert is pretty stupid so I can see that.

DreamShaker
03-17-2014, 12:54 AM
How do you think the Pistons would be doing if they went after Milsap instead of Josh (death to any franchise) Smith?

I think Iggy would be the even better option. Kings almost had him, so he wasn't set on going to a good team he could have put over the top. The strength they had was the 5 and 4 spots, so going after a 3 would have made more sense.

RipCity32
03-17-2014, 01:06 AM
I think Iggy would be the even better option. Kings almost had him, so he wasn't set on going to a good team he could have put over the top. The strength they had was the 5 and 4 spots, so going after a 3 would have made more sense.

I was hoping we were going after Iggy. Reports were that we were trying but he probably had no interest. That would have been a great fit though.

Deception
03-17-2014, 01:06 AM
I think Iggy would be the even better option. Kings almost had him, so he wasn't set on going to a good team he could have put over the top. The strength they had was the 5 and 4 spots, so going after a 3 would have made more sense.

We pursued Iggy, he wasn't interested, he even declined more cash from Denver to sign with the Warriors

KniCks4LiFe
03-17-2014, 01:13 AM
good god, CLE is on suicide watch.

Deception
03-17-2014, 12:49 PM
Only great thing behind this, is Cleveland wouldn't tank. Dumars doesn't believe in it.

waveycrockett
03-17-2014, 12:56 PM
I really think Larry Brown saved this dudes reputation and JOB. If it weren't for that man Dumars reputation would be at the bottom of the barrel along with Isiah Thomas and David Khan.

todu82
03-17-2014, 02:38 PM
Cleveland can have him. I know a lot of Detroit fans who would drive Dumars to the airport to get rid of him. The Cavs want to rebuild? If they do they don't hire this guy as GM.

ahigbee1989
03-17-2014, 03:49 PM
Reports are Dumars is expected to resign at seasons end. Even if he doesnt resign, His contract is up at the end of the season. The owner has shut him down mid way through the season and wouldnt even allow him to make anymore moves at the deadline. The owner even fired Cheeks which was Joes newest coach hire halfway through the season even though Joe tried talking him out of it. If it wasnt for the fact that Dumars is Pistons royalty he probably would have been fired with him. So now it looks like we are just letting his contract expire to go our separate ways peacefully.

With that said Dumars is close with Gilbert. I believe they are even next door neighbors and Gilbert also has strong ties to the city of Detroit. I feel certain that they already have a deal in place for Joe in the offseason.

I think Joe is terrible anymore but Will the Cavs try to reach for him hoping he still has some of that magic left that he showed when he was at the beginning of his GM career with the Pistons?
I don't think you have to like or dislike Joe Dumars to know that his time has come to an end in Detroit. Whether you think he made good moves or not, you cannot deny that since winning the championship in '04, he has made bad mistake after bad mistake. Just ignoring the bad that came with the good previous to then.

The first mistake was Tayshaun Prince's renewed contract in '05. On Tayshaun's best day, he was a 15 point scorer and plus defender. With an aging team he wasn't the guy to poor money into with almost no more additional upside.

The second mistake was in '08 in letting Flip Saunders go. He was the last winning coach we had here, and was let go after a 50+ win season, for the likes of Michael Curry. I don't know anyone that thought this was an upgrade.

The third and most critical mistake also happened in '08. Trading Chauncey away for Allen Iverson was giving away our franchise player for literally nothing. Dumars believed so much in Rodney Stuckey that he was willing to mortgage the franchise on the ability to get out of Billups' contract. That flamed out spectacularly.

In '09 we go out and use the cap space we had earned giving up Billups', and we spend all of it on Ben Gordon, who was a one year wonder in Chicago and didn't our scheme at all, and Charlie V who cashed in on that one big scoring game he had in Milwaukee. That cash strapped our team for 3-4 years. So to say ownership stopped him from spending is short sighted, we had no cap space. On top of those signings, we GIVE AWAY Arron Afflalo for nothing, literally nothing.

We are then a bottom feeder team from then on, and frankly he hasn't done a terrible job drafting. Yes ownership wants to win and make the playoffs, but in this new NBA if you don't show signs of improvement, which during that time we were showing none, you have to make changes. Detroit has one of the lowest average attendances in the league. If people aren't showing up to see your product, you don't make money.

The first thought I had after the Jennings/Smith Signings was that we added a Ball Dominant PG who may or may not turn into a good player for us, and we added another front court player to our already saturated roster. Anyone that thought Josh Smith was going to be good as a 3 in this league does not watch enough NBA basketball. Our best move going forward since the Josh Smith Contract is literally unmovable, is to do a sign and trade with Monroe this offseason for a real 3, and hope we can get draft picks along with it. However, Joe Dumars isn't the guy to make that kind of move.

Bruno
03-17-2014, 03:55 PM
todays NBA, where failed franchises continue to reward the inept on their way to continual lottery busts all on the backs and dollars of the franchises who actually know what they're doing.

this is beyond stupid. former players should be on a SHORT leash when it comes to management, they shouldn't be allowed to decimate a franchise and get hired to a new one the following season.

by the way, what happened to all of PSDs Cavs fans? there were a lot of them in 2009. they must have upgraded their flare.

Melo15
03-17-2014, 04:05 PM
by the way, what happened to all of PSDs Cavs fans? there were a lot of them in 2009. they must have upgraded their flare.

They took their talents to South Beach with LeBron. There's only around 4 or 5 us regular posters in the Cavs forum now.

As for the thread topic I might cry if Gilbert is dumb enough to bring Dumars over. I actually like David Griffin and wouldn't mind them giving him a shot.

smith&wesson
03-17-2014, 04:19 PM
look at this rotation. Irving, Jack, Waiters, Thompson, Bennette, Varagao, Deng, Hawes, Miles, Gee

That is a solid 10 man rotation. Good enough for 3rd in the east. almost half of those guys are top 5 picks. (Irving, Thompson, Waiters, Bennette) the other half are solid vets to say the least. (deng, hawes, jack,)

If you told me the cavaliers were out of the post season at the start of this season, Id laugh at you and tell you that you know nothing about basketball. THIS TEAM PLAYS IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE!!!!

When will the cavaliers learn that their problem is Mike Brown ? what has that coach done since having lebron to make him look good and bail him out ?

The cavs should be battleing the raptors for 3rd spot in the east. No excuses. Fire the dam coach already they have seriously under performed.

Melo15
03-17-2014, 04:29 PM
I dont understand why the cavs dont realize its the coach that is in fact the problem. Mike Brown has done nothing since he had lebron to bail him out and make him look good. He even failed with the lakers with a team of kobe, gasol, howard etc.

the guy flat out sucks and the there are better coaches out there to be had for this young team full of top 5 picks and prospects.

I think they're starting to. Most team insiders have noted that interim GM David Griffin, if hired full time, would love to bring in a new coach. He hates how Mike Brown approaches games and that he fails to utilize our teams strengths and sticks to one gameplan even when it's ineffective. He's also been pretty awful at developing the young talent and putting them in positions to succeed this year which certainly hasn't gone unnoticed.

Chris Grant was always Mike Brown's biggest supporter, they've been very close friends since they played together at San Diego in college. Once he was fired it's been assumed that they're just letting Mike Brown finish out the season. They were still hoping to make the playoffs after firing Grant and there was talk of them possibly making a coaching change around that same time but then the team had it's longest winning streak of the season so they stuck with Brown. Likely the only way he'd be back next year would be for financial reasons. They idiotically gave him a 4 year deal with a partial guarantee on a 5th year and that's a lot of money to eat firing him. Gilbert has never been shy spending money though so I doubt he suddenly changes in that regard.

smith&wesson
03-17-2014, 04:40 PM
I think they're starting to. Most team insiders have noted that interim GM David Griffin, if hired full time, would love to bring in a new coach. He hates how Mike Brown approaches games and that he fails to utilize our teams strengths and sticks to one gameplan even when it's ineffective. He's also been pretty awful at developing the young talent and putting them in positions to succeed this year which certainly hasn't gone unnoticed.

Chris Grant was always Mike Brown's biggest supporter, they've been very close friends since they played together at San Diego in college. Once he was fired it's been assumed that they're just letting Mike Brown finish out the season. They were still hoping to make the playoffs after firing Grant and there was talk of them possibly making a coaching change around that same time but then the team had it's longest winning streak of the season so they stuck with Brown. Likely the only way he'd be back next year would be for financial reasons. They idiotically gave him a 4 year deal with a partial guarantee on a 5th year and that's a lot of money to eat firing him. Gilbert has never been shy spending money though so I doubt he suddenly changes in that regard.

If I were them I would part with mike brown asap. Not matter the cost.. The losing is deatrimental to the development of those young players. The same young players the team has lost season after season to attain. They are much more valuable to the future of the franchise than the few million hit they would take to get rid of brown.

The team has solid talent and balance of youth + vet leadership. They have a bright future, they just need a coach who can mesh it all together.

KniCks4LiFe
03-17-2014, 04:43 PM
look at this rotation. Irving, Jack, Waiters, Thompson, Bennette, Varagao, Deng, Hawes, Miles, Gee

That is a solid 10 man rotation. Good enough for 3rd in the east. almost half of those guys are top 5 picks. (Irving, Thompson, Waiters, Bennette) the other half are solid vets to say the least. (deng, hawes, jack,)

If you told me the cavaliers were out of the post season at the start of this season, Id laugh at you and tell you that you know nothing about basketball. THIS TEAM PLAYS IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE!!!!

When will the cavaliers learn that their problem is Mike Brown ? what has that coach done since having lebron to make him look good and bail him out ?

The cavs should be battleing the raptors for 3rd spot in the east. No excuses. Fire the dam coach already they have seriously under performed.

Jack is a cancer homie. All he does is play a more selfish low key version of Starbury ball.

Hawes and Deng were just added. Bennett is a bust. Mike Brown is terrible, but on top of that the GM has sucked.

Melo15
03-17-2014, 04:44 PM
If I were them I would part with mike brown asap. Not matter the cost.. The losing is deatrimental to the development of those young players. The same young players the team has lost season after season to attain. They are much more valuable to the future of the franchise than the few million hit they would take to get rid of brown.

The team has solid talent and balance of youth + vet leadership. They have a bright future, they just need a coach who can mesh it all together.

I completely agree with you. Mike Brown is a terrible fit with the core of this team and it will only further stall/harm their development by keeping him around. I think it's safe to say he's gone next year though. Griffin isn't a Mike Brown fan and if they hire outside the organization then whoever they bring in will want their own head coach.

Of course now that I said that watch next year they'll have Dumars at GM and Mike Brown at head coach.

Melo15
03-17-2014, 04:47 PM
Jack is a cancer homie. All he does is play a more selfish low key version of Starbury ball.

Hawes and Deng were just added. Bennett is a bust. Mike Brown is terrible, but on top of that the GM has sucked.

Way too early to say that in my opinion. Give him another year and see how he looks. This year was a major wake-up call for him and Mike Brown has used him terribly. Since he's been healthy when given extended minutes he's actually looked pretty good. Those opportunities are just few and far between with Brown running the team. This year has been a disaster but there is still a lot of hope for Bennett in the future.

smith&wesson
03-17-2014, 04:50 PM
Jack is a cancer homie. All he does is play a more selfish low key version of Starbury ball.

Hawes and Deng were just added. Bennett is a bust. Mike Brown is terrible, but on top of that the GM has sucked.

jack is not a cancer at all. When he played for Toronto we loved him there. When he played for golden state they really loved him there too.

Bennette is not a bust, he had a horrible start but he will be a solid player in this league with time. Plus that is one of mike browns major flawes. He has failed to develop players like bennette and waiters.

Mike brown is the issue on that team, not the personel. I promise you that.

smith&wesson
03-17-2014, 04:53 PM
I completely agree with you. Mike Brown is a terrible fit with the core of this team and it will only further stall/harm their development by keeping him around. I think it's safe to say he's gone next year though. Griffin isn't a Mike Brown fan and if they hire outside the organization then whoever they bring in will want their own head coach.

Of course now that I said that watch next year they'll have Dumars at GM and Mike Brown at head coach.

I would really be a pissed off cavs fan if that happened. Just horrible. Clevland deserves better than that. The players on that team deserve better than that.

KniCks4LiFe
03-17-2014, 05:22 PM
jack is not a cancer at all. When he played for Toronto we loved him there. When he played for golden state they really loved him there too.

Bennette is not a bust, he had a horrible start but he will be a solid player in this league with time. Plus that is one of mike browns major flawes. He has failed to develop players like bennette and waiters.

Mike brown is the issue on that team, not the personel. I promise you that.

They fell in love w/ his last min shot success. If you watch him for a full game the boy dribbles, dribbles and chucks. Turns down PnR options, turns down open spot up shots for his teammates. He's 40% of what's wrong there in CLE.

Bennett is horrible right now.

Brown sucks period.

smith&wesson
03-17-2014, 07:18 PM
They fell in love w/ his last min shot success. If you watch him for a full game the boy dribbles, dribbles and chucks. Turns down PnR options, turns down open spot up shots for his teammates. He's 40% of what's wrong there in CLE.

Bennett is horrible right now.

Brown sucks period.

maybe thats how jack has been playing since being in clevland. clearly there are some chemistry issues and im not sure if mike brown even really knows how to use jack. he was solid in a 6th man role last year and was a candidate to be 6th man of the year. Jack is probably playing selfishly in an attempt to keep his trade value seeing how that team is pretty much disfunctional. In any case, jack is simply a role player on that team. No big deal. he can be traded...

What about the fact that clevland has had multiple first round picks several years in a row now ? those are all talented young players. they need the right coach to get them to mesh and to play for one another.

Bennette was horrible to start the season sure.. he has picked it up since then a bit but still needs time to develop. most big men dont develop in the nba until year 3 or 4.. Mike brown sucks at developing young players and this team needs a real coach to get the young guys to play the right way in a system.

Cant write off Bennette just yet. Bargnani got 6 years to prove him self and still was a bust, lets give Bennette a chance atleast.