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View Full Version : Can Blake Griffin ever play defense like Anthony Davis?



mrblisterdundee
03-13-2014, 02:51 AM
It seems like Griffin is every bit as athletic as Davis, if not more. He may be slightly better offensively, but he's definitely not the same presence on defense.

http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/5sFXH

Obviously, with how close the two players are in production, I'd take Davis because of his superior defense and lesser mileage. But Griffin's still young too: Can he ever will himself to play defense like Davis?

Kyben36
03-13-2014, 02:55 AM
NOt at all, IMO, the best blake can become is a more tough guy, he will never be a great shot blocker, help defender, but i think if he becomes a tough player, he could be great, even if it was just hard fouling guys at the rim like a Rodman, i think he would at least have better rim presence, but he will never move, block shots, or defend like Davis.

abe_froman
03-13-2014, 03:00 AM
can he? sure
will he? probably not

Sadds The Gr8
03-13-2014, 03:02 AM
Davis has way more length so his defensive upside is way better.

TheNumber37
03-13-2014, 03:23 AM
Davis is doesn't have an NBA body yet, I think he can David Robinson/KG the game with Defense.
Blake can't do that. The best he can do is rebound well, solidly defend low post with strength and shot blocking, play passing lanes and try to contain penetration in iso and on Pick and Roll.

Still, he won't have more impact than Davis who can win a game playing Defense.

Jtirado16
03-13-2014, 03:26 AM
No not at all... Davis hasn't even fully devolved and he's far better than Blake. Yes I think he can better but not to that level.

Cracka2HI!
03-13-2014, 04:16 AM
Nope. For all the reasons everyone else said, but most of all he has really short arms. Davis is also elite and will get better. It has nothing to do with him being soft or other hate posters will spew. Blake is a better player right now tho and may always be. I'm not sure who has a higher upside but Blake is a dominant player right now. He is also going to improve.

goingfor28
03-13-2014, 04:17 AM
No. Davis is much longer than Blake.

Ebbs
03-13-2014, 04:25 AM
Well you got to think with his athleticism and quickness he could become a very good help defender.

slashsnake
03-13-2014, 05:27 AM
I don't think so. I do think in 2 years Anthony Davis may be pushing deservedly for league MVP, and will be the best big in the game. Shaq, Robinson, Olajuwon, McAdoo, and Mourning are the 5 guys to average 20pts-10boards-3blocks in one of their first two NBA seasons. Him and Shaq are the only ones to do it under age 22. Hes got a smooth shot as well and could be an great free throw shooter (80% for the last 20 games or so). Definitely not the explosiveness offensively of Blake and doesn't have the court vision, but he's made huge strides since his rookie year.

Chronz
03-13-2014, 02:41 PM
Im not convinced that Davis is the superior 2-way player. He definitely doesn't have the vision Blake does, doesn't have the same go-to skillset and defensively, Im not sold on there being much of a difference. In this comparison, what Blake lacks in length, he makes up for with brute strength and intelligence. Davis has the higher potential, its why I was actually in favor of trading him for the #1 pick that year, but that potential has yet to be realized defensively. Hes still maturing physically, still learning the subtleties of nba positioning, I would give him another year of seasoning before I put him on Blakes level.

ewing
03-13-2014, 02:45 PM
no

NBA_Starter
03-13-2014, 09:41 PM
I am going to say probably not.

gwrighter
03-13-2014, 09:42 PM
Davis has way more length so his defensive upside is way better.

This.

Trwood12
03-13-2014, 11:31 PM
He has the athleticism and the drive to, but I'm not sure that he has the right build. I wouldn't be surprised if he does but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.

Chronz
03-14-2014, 01:38 AM
Nope. For all the reasons everyone else said, but most of all he has really short arms. Davis is also elite and will get better. It has nothing to do with him being soft or other hate posters will spew. Blake is a better player right now tho and may always be. I'm not sure who has a higher upside but Blake is a dominant player right now. He is also going to improve.

I read somewhere that he has the same arm length as Josh Smith, if thats true, then its mostly the lack of timing that stops him.

slashsnake
03-14-2014, 01:48 AM
Interesting point on the reach. I figured I'd look it up. From the measurements at the NBA pre draft combine.

Blake 6'8.5" without shoes. Wingspan 6'11.25" Standing reach 8'9"
Davis 6'9.5" without shoes. Wingspan 7'5.5" 9' standing reach

3 more inches on the standing reach, over 6 inch wingspan difference. That is a very interesting reasoning there.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2014, 02:02 AM
Interesting point on the reach. I figured I'd look it up. From the measurements at the NBA pre draft combine.

Blake 6'8.5" without shoes. Wingspan 6'11.25" Standing reach 8'9"
Davis 6'9.5" without shoes. Wingspan 7'5.5" 9' standing reach

3 more inches on the standing reach, over 6 inch wingspan difference. That is a very interesting reasoning there.

add to it that Davis has a timing ability most don't.

abe_froman
03-14-2014, 02:05 AM
the reach thing is overstated,its not that big of an issue with defense as it being made out to be,it has more to do with timing and effort

Swashcuff
03-14-2014, 09:11 AM
the reach thing is overstated,its not that big of an issue with defense as it being made out to be,it has more to do with timing and effort

When it comes to what Davis does best currently (shot blocking) its a big deal TBH. Blake can have Davis's timing and effort but without his length he will never be as impactful a defender as Davis can be.

b@llhog24
03-14-2014, 07:51 PM
Nah. His arms are too short.

Sent via Tapatalk

Clippersfan86
03-14-2014, 10:39 PM
Davis will likely never be the offensive force Griffin can be either. Griffin is a legit threat to be a high 20's scorer with 4-5 apg in his absolute prime, I doubt Davis comes close to those numbers. So no.. Griffin won't be the defender Davis is... but he's got an entirely different skillset.

JEDean89
03-15-2014, 12:15 AM
^^^ davis is already becoming the offensive force that Griffin is only he can hit free throws and stretch the floor way better. blake hadn't even played a single game in the N.B.A. when he was Davis's age. He's averaging 31 points and 13 rebounds over his last 5 games, 23 and 10 over his last 10. The dude's got MVP potential no doubt, his defense is already elite, and the fact that he shoots 78% from the line at age 20 means we got us a bona fide superstud. He's like Duncan with Robinson's athleticism.

Chronz
03-15-2014, 12:32 AM
Davis will likely never be the offensive force Griffin can be either. Griffin is a legit threat to be a high 20's scorer with 4-5 apg in his absolute prime, I doubt Davis comes close to those numbers. So no.. Griffin won't be the defender Davis is... but he's got an entirely different skillset.

Why do you say likely? Davis has elite 2-way potential.

Sadds The Gr8
03-15-2014, 12:53 AM
Davis will likely never be the offensive force Griffin can be either. Griffin is a legit threat to be a high 20's scorer with 4-5 apg in his absolute prime, I doubt Davis comes close to those numbers. So no.. Griffin won't be the defender Davis is... but he's got an entirely different skillset.

lol

mavwar53
03-15-2014, 12:53 AM
Terrible question because griffin does not have the length which makes Davis the defender he is, griffin can give all his effort on D it won't make him and his arms lengthen.

mavwar53
03-15-2014, 12:58 AM
And to the OP, athleticism has hardly anything to do with defense, it's length and mostly effort, Bruce Bowen not super athletic to say the least, you don't play defense by jumping out of the gym, it can help but in most cases jumping just causes guys to pick up fouls.

PowerHouse
03-15-2014, 01:17 AM
Once Griffin grows another 2 inches and has arms long enough to scratch his kneecaps without bending over then maybe he can start playing d like Davis.

goingfor28
03-15-2014, 01:27 AM
^^^ davis is already becoming the offensive force that Griffin is only he can hit free throws and stretch the floor way better. blake hadn't even played a single game in the N.B.A. when he was Davis's age. He's averaging 31 points and 13 rebounds over his last 5 games, 23 and 10 over his last 10. The dude's got MVP potential no doubt, his defense is already elite, and the fact that he shoots 78% from the line at age 20 means we got us a bona fide superstud. He's like Duncan with Robinson's athleticism.


blake makes FTs too, and stretches the floor quite well. Look it up. dude has a legitimate J now. and blake chose to stay at oklahoma an extra year, whereas davis left kentucky after his freshman year. wtf does that have to do w anything?

Vinny642
03-15-2014, 01:47 AM
Lets give Davis credit, is his soo much farther offensively than most would have thought already.

Corey
03-15-2014, 01:53 AM
Davis will likely never be the offensive force Griffin can be either. Griffin is a legit threat to be a high 20's scorer with 4-5 apg in his absolute prime, I doubt Davis comes close to those numbers. So no.. Griffin won't be the defender Davis is... but he's got an entirely different skillset.

Que? He's already averaging 21/10. Why is it farfetched to think Davis could reach those number?

abe_froman
03-15-2014, 02:05 AM
When it comes to what Davis does best currently (shot blocking) its a big deal TBH. Blake can have Davis's timing and effort but without his length he will never be as impactful a defender as Davis can be.

there's more to defense than shot blocking,also,with blake's frame and athleticism could be be a much better shot blocker than what he is

JEDean89
03-15-2014, 02:13 AM
blake makes FTs too, and stretches the floor quite well. Look it up. dude has a legitimate J now. and blake chose to stay at oklahoma an extra year, whereas davis left kentucky after his freshman year. wtf does that have to do w anything?

wow :facepalm: where to begin? Anthony Davis is a 78% ft shooter at 20 years of age, Blake is a .695% FT shooter at 25. This matters huge because Griffin plays next to Jordan, another atrocious FT shooter and it makes it difficult to close the games with both of them on the floor.

yes blake chose to stay and davis chose to leave but you can't compare a 25 year old to a 20 year old and say that the age factor doesn't have anything to do with it. Players improve my friend, Davis is already a superior 2 way player and is producing way better 27 PER vs 24. Look at Blakes numbers his rookie year when he shot 64% , he has gradually improved it, same to be expected from anthony davis, he could be a 25 and 10 guy who shoots 85% from the line, there aren't many of those in this league the ones who do can't play defense like Davis. Hate to burst your bubble but Anthony Davis's potential is probably higher than any other player on the planet right now. The dude is still underweight, has a lot to learn and is improving at an incredible rate. Every single GM in the league takes him over Blake 100/100 times.

Clippersfan86
03-15-2014, 03:15 AM
Que? He's already averaging 21/10. Why is it farfetched to think Davis could reach those number?

I haven't seen ANYTHING to show me that he's an elite level passer or scorer, that's why. Doesn't mean I'd ever claim he can't be. I just don't see why people are idiotic enough to automatically assume Blake can't become an elite defender despite HUGE leaps, yet with Davis are quick to practically guarantee he can get to Blake's offensive level. If you look at the game logs or even watch the games you'll see he's an incredibly inconsistent scorer. One game 9 points, the next 27 etc. Nowhere near as stable as Blake (even when Blake was a rookie and was raw). Oddly enough Blake has the same defensive rating despite the gaudy blocks and steals numbers of Davis.


For a 20 year old he's INCREDIBLE. He's likely going to be a top 5 player in the NBA in the next couple years. He's shattered all expectations I've had for him. That being said he's overrated by many who already consider him a top 5 player.

Vinny642
03-15-2014, 05:54 AM
Davis is better than Blake and Howard... just stop

Clippersfan86
03-15-2014, 10:15 AM
Lol okay.

Goose17
03-15-2014, 11:51 AM
Davis has the potential to be the better player on both ends, and probably will be when it's all done. But Blake is hands down the better offensive talent right now, especially since his post scoring and jump shot has gotten more consistent.

I don't understand why Blake can't play better defense, he has such great court vision for a player at his position on the offensive end, I can't grasp why that doesn't translate on the defensive end (felt the same about Steve Nash).

With his size and athleticism I think he could be an elite defender at some point, I'm not entirely convinced though.

Chronz
03-15-2014, 01:46 PM
I haven't seen ANYTHING to show me that he's an elite level passer or scorer, that's why. Doesn't mean I'd ever claim he can't be.
Nobody would be dumb enough to say he cant, but you said it was unlikely. Hes scoring at an elite level for his age bracket, his overall offensive contributions are producing superior stats to Blake as is, how is that not showing anything?



I just don't see why people are idiotic enough to automatically assume Blake can't become an elite defender despite HUGE leaps, yet with Davis are quick to practically guarantee he can get to Blake's offensive level.
Thats because you're a homer, its OBVIOUS why. LENGTH and age based analysis. Blake can try harder, but you cant teach length. If these 2 players are equally driven to learn, the one more talented can achieve more. It remains to be seen what becomes of that potential, thats why the better critique would be mentioning the fact that Davis isn't the superior player on either end. Or at best they are equals.


If you look at the game logs or even watch the games you'll see he's an incredibly inconsistent scorer. One game 9 points, the next 27 etc.
If you watch the game, you would know some of those low scoring outings were a result of injury or simply the coach sending out the white flag early. Again, a constant theme of yours is being extreme with your analysis. In order to expose INCREDIBLE inconsistency, you would need alot more than this.


For a 20 year old he's INCREDIBLE. He's likely going to be a top 5 player in the NBA in the next couple years. He's shattered all expectations I've had for him. That being said he's overrated by many who already consider him a top 5 player
Hes shattered all of your expectations, yet you're using words like, "not likely" when projecting his future?

I think we should all agree the kid has potential to be the best in the game ala KG, but its by no means a gaurantee. Blake is the better player for now IMO, but I wouldn't degrade someone for thinking otherwise, its that close already.

Goose17
03-15-2014, 03:32 PM
...

Love your sig, watched the game but didn't catch the ball hitting Blake and Jordan laughing at it.

Clippersfan86
03-15-2014, 05:18 PM
Chronz I'm not degrading Davis... besides "not likely" is clearly opinion and not like I'm presenting it as fact. I'd love to hear why you say his overall offensive contributions are greater than Blake's currently but then turn around and say you feel Blake is still better for now, makes no sense whatsoever. If Davis is clearly the better defender.. and you're also calling him the better offensive contributor, you have no case for saying Griffin is comparable, let alone better now.

Davis is a mediocre passer for his skillset at best, Griffin is an ELITE one. Griffin has an assist percentage of 18 this season and over his career, Davis has 8 percent. Griffin is averaging over double the apg as well. Then you look at scoring... 24.5 ppg on 17 shots per game... with TS% of 58.6. He's more efficient in the post and more efficient from midrange, especially when you factor in volume. Davis is at 21 ppg on 15 shots with a TS% of 58.3. He relies more on garbage buckets and isn't as consistent.

As I said Chronz... I haven't seen anything close to the stretch offensively from Davis, Griffin has shown to imply he will ever be an equal offensive player. Griffin just averaged 31 ppg, 4 apg for an entire month on 60 percent shooting. In his absolute prime I'm expecting high 20's to go with 4 apg. Not because I'm being a homer, but because I've seen he can do it.

JEDean89
03-15-2014, 05:21 PM
wow it's amazing how upset clippers fans get when they realize they now have the 3rd best PF in the game. you guys have chris paul, doc rivers and a great supporting cast, you don't need Blake to be the best defender in the game, you just need him to keep improving in ways that can help the team win. Do you know how lucky you guys are to have that dream pairing on the court? Anthony Davis is just an absolutely out of this world talent, his offensive game looks like it's potential is way better than Griffins and if you watch him play, a lot of his offense seems like a SF, there just isn't anyone on the planet like this guy.

Clippersfan86
03-15-2014, 05:22 PM
BTW... you can't teach length... but Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest defenders ever and it had little to do with contesting shots. It had to do with his positional defense, IQ, tenacity. I believe Blake can become an elite man defender, and PNR defender... which he's already shown great flashes of. Can't tell you how many times recently Blake's sealed a game with a timely charge taken or a steal in the passing lanes.. or trapping a PNR player into a turnover.

I don't think he will be better than Davis on D. But if he can be a great defender in his own right and a superior offensive player, he will be better potentially.

PS. Can somebody explain why such a superior defender in Davis has had an inferior Drtg to Griffin all year long? I know other factors come into play.... but if they weren't even in the same ballpark, wouldn't there be a big difference?

b@llhog24
03-15-2014, 08:37 PM
lullz

JEDean89
03-15-2014, 09:36 PM
^^^^ lemme see, griffin plays under doc, an excellent defensive coach and plays in a much better defensive starting 5. who does davis play with? drtg isn't that great a stat but the rim protection stat, one of the new stats brought on by those cameras, has davis as way better. davis of course needs to learn team defense better such as rotations and where to be on the floor at all times but his 2 way potential is my favorite on the planet.

rodman was an anomaly, there will probably never be another defensive player like him, you can't expect griffin to ever be able to lock down a prime shaq in the post.

Chronz
03-16-2014, 12:23 AM
Chronz I'm not degrading Davis... besides "not likely" is clearly opinion and not like I'm presenting it as fact.
Obviously, not sure where you're going with this one. Im not saying you can predict the future, that has never been in question, what Im questioning is the consistency of your opinion. On one hand you say hes shattered each and every expectation, and in another you say its not likely to continue? If hes not likely to do it, what kind of player would be, use any historical example.


I'd love to hear why you say his overall offensive contributions are greater than Blake's currently but then turn around and say you feel Blake is still better for now, makes no sense whatsoever.
You're confusion stems from not quoting me directly, if you read the post, I go on to say his offensive contributions are producing better STATS. I go on to name Blake the better player because I can separate stats from overall IMPACT. Not every superior statistical player is superior overall. I understand its a subjective viewpoint, but you're the one constantly yapping about looking beyond the stats.


If Davis is clearly the better defender.. and you're also calling him the better offensive contributor, you have no case for saying Griffin is comparable, let alone better now.

Davis is NOT clearly the better defender, tho his stats suggest otherwise. Blake is better because of his intangible worth that Im not sure I see in Davis yet. Tho I could totally be wrong, its why I dont think Love is much better, if at all, than Blake now.


Davis is a mediocre passer for his skillset at best, Griffin is an ELITE one. Griffin has an assist percentage of 18 this season and over his career, Davis has 8 percent. Griffin is averaging over double the apg as well. Then you look at scoring... 24.5 ppg on 17 shots per game... with TS% of 58.6. He's more efficient in the post and more efficient from midrange, especially when you factor in volume. Davis is at 21 ppg on 15 shots with a TS% of 58.3. He relies more on garbage buckets and isn't as consistent.
Hes a different type of player, but the statistics show him as the more efficient offensive player. TS% ignores turnovers and offensive rebounds, which matter tremendously in the grand scheme of things here. Per Possession, he scoring at a higher rate. The usage is lower, hes taking about as many possessions as Blake did last year, but is far more efficient offensively (O-RTG of 119 vs 114). Its telling that both PER/WS evaluations favor him despite Blake's massive edge in the usage department.


As I said Chronz... I haven't seen anything close to the stretch offensively from Davis, Griffin has shown to imply he will ever be an equal offensive player.
Based on what? Blake had never posted this kind of production before this year, if you look at his numbers from years 1-3, they pale in comparison to what Davis is doing now.


In his absolute prime I'm expecting high 20's to go with 4 apg. Not because I'm being a homer, but because I've seen he can do it.

Lack of efficiency aside, Im not disputing what Blake can do, but you're a homer if you dont see the same potential in someone whos ahead of the curve, more talented and the guy you admitted to already proving you wrong.

Scoots
03-16-2014, 12:52 AM
I've never seen someone develop that shot blocking timing after joining the NBA. They either have it or they don't ... Davis definitely has it.

Bostonjorge
03-16-2014, 04:05 AM
I see a lot of Davis and KG comparisons. Can Davis be as good as Garnett was in his first year in Boston Defensive wise? I know Blake will never be as good as KG.

Swashcuff
03-16-2014, 10:15 AM
I see a lot of Davis and KG comparisons. Can Davis be as good as Garnett was in his first year in Boston Defensive wise? I know Blake will never be as good as KG.

Know what's sad that probably wasn't even Garnett's defensive prime but because of the fact that he played in a top calibre defensive system with able defensive players around him he finally got the recognition he deserved.

Chrisclover
03-16-2014, 11:23 AM
Generally speaking ,Davis is and will remain a better defender than Blake if things go well.But if you view it from another perspective , it can hinge upon the position. Most players have 2 positions, the primary and the secondary.
If you put both of them on PF,then Davis gets the upper hand ,just as what other posters here have already mentioned.
If you move Davis up to C and Blake remains on PF,then probably Davis ' defense impact will be less than the one when he plays PF ,and thus is not hugely better than Blake's.

Clippersfan86
03-16-2014, 01:33 PM
Fine Chronz. Davis has GOAT potential and will average 27/11/4/3/3 on elite efficiency. Davis will be one of the top players no doubt. I just don't like how Griffin was crushed for being put on a pedestal, yet people have no problem doing it with Davis.

Clippersfan86
03-16-2014, 01:38 PM
Let me just ask everyone. Was Mutombo/Ratliff a better defender than Rodman?

JEDean89
03-16-2014, 07:55 PM
^^^^ so there are many different types of defense my man. rodman was a great post defender, he could guard shaq in the post and lock him down. that is just one type of defense though and that type was way more important at the time because post play was so much more prevalent. there is also perimeter defense, based on denying dribble penetration, team defense, knowing where to be on the floor and how to rotate, and then there is rim protection. rodmans best defensive skillset would not be as useful today but mutombo's would be godly. overall i'm taking the rim protector over the post player but yes rodman was a freak defender. cocaine is a hell of a drug.

Chronz
03-17-2014, 12:05 PM
Fine Chronz. Davis has GOAT potential and will average 27/11/4/3/3 on elite efficiency. Davis will be one of the top players no doubt. I just don't like how Griffin was crushed for being put on a pedestal, yet people have no problem doing it with Davis.
I honestly dont know what you're talking about, either way, I wouldn't be so extreme in my analysis to offset any perceived slight.




Let me just ask everyone. Was Mutombo/Ratliff a better defender than Rodman?
Maybe. I think I would take Rodman but Mutombo had that dominant run to get his team into the Finals.