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View Full Version : Who is the most overrated player?



Trwood12
03-12-2014, 09:30 PM
I recently noticed that a ton of people at my school are huge Curry or LeBron fan-boys/girls but I have never heard of a die-hard Kevin Durant fan. I just wanted to see what other players people view as the most overrated players in the NBA based off of mass popularity. Underrated?

Slug3
03-12-2014, 09:43 PM
I mean are we going off of right now? Then it's Kobe die to age really.

Minimal
03-12-2014, 09:45 PM
Chris Paul

zn23
03-12-2014, 09:59 PM
Hibbert

barreleffact
03-12-2014, 10:02 PM
I voted Love, but feel both he and Paul George

NBA_Starter
03-12-2014, 10:04 PM
George and Hibbert

Stunner
03-12-2014, 10:08 PM
Hibbert


Tapatalk Rulez !!!

DR_1
03-12-2014, 11:08 PM
Wade.

c.c.
03-12-2014, 11:32 PM
1. Curry
2. George
3. Paul
4. Melo

Trwood12
03-12-2014, 11:34 PM
Replying to my own thread, I would have to say Curry. He is the best shooter in the league, but as a PG he is hugely overrated.

Tony_Starks
03-12-2014, 11:39 PM
Love

Dwight

Jeffy25
03-12-2014, 11:48 PM
Kobe, Griffin, or Melo

CityofChaos
03-13-2014, 12:11 AM
Paul George and Carmelo Anthony

goingfor28
03-13-2014, 12:32 AM
Steph curry

kpjets
03-13-2014, 12:43 AM
kyrie irving

Walt
03-13-2014, 12:58 AM
Hibbert by far.

beyourself
03-13-2014, 12:59 AM
Hibbert, Curry, Paul, Westbrook, George are all overrated.

amos1er
03-13-2014, 01:03 AM
Lebron. Before you bash me hear me out...

I don't deny that he is the best in the game today.

I don't deny that he is most likely going to be considered a top ten talent when all is said and done.

I don't deny that from a statistical standpoint he is one of the best to play the game.

What I am saying is that he is overrated in the sense that people have always been giving him waaaaaaaaaaaaay more credit than he deserves. Calling himself "The King" before he won anything is the most overrated thing that can happen to a player IMO. People saying that he is top 5 already is just plain ridiculous and overrated to me. People comparing him to Jordan only after 2 rings and going 2/4 in the finals is just blasphemous. People saying that he deserves the MVP over Durant this year is a crime. All those things are what makes him overrated in my eyes. I am not saying that he isn't great, I'm just saying that people make him out to be a lot better than he really is. Hence the definition of being overrated.

nickdymez
03-13-2014, 01:18 AM
Kobe

Hawkeye15
03-13-2014, 01:19 AM
Lebron. Before you bash me hear me out...

I don't deny that he is the best in the game today.

I don't deny that he is most likely going to be considered a top ten talent when all is said and done.

I don't deny that from a statistical standpoint he is one of the best to play the game.

What I am saying is that he is overrated in the sense that people have always been giving him waaaaaaaaaaaaay more credit than he deserves. Calling himself "The King" before he won anything is the most overrated thing that can happen to a player IMO. People saying that he is top 5 already is just plain ridiculous and overrated to me. People comparing him to Jordan only after 2 rings and going 2/4 in the finals is just blasphemous. People saying that he deserves the MVP over Durant this year is a crime. All those things are what makes him overrated in my eyes. I am not saying that he isn't great, I'm just saying that people make him out to be a lot better than he really is. Hence the definition of being overrated.

why? You are a Kobe lover who does everything possible to protect your boy?

Tell me, why should anyone read past the bolded part? (this is a rhetorical question btw).

I get called a Kobe hater for reasons I don't get. Look in the vice versa mirror...

amos1er
03-13-2014, 01:36 AM
why? You are a Kobe lover who does everything possible to protect your boy?

Tell me, why should anyone read past the bolded part? (this is a rhetorical question btw).

I get called a Kobe hater for reasons I don't get. Look in the vice versa mirror...

Regardless of my reputation, I feel I raised some valid points.

Jeffy25
03-13-2014, 01:40 AM
Lebron. Before you bash me hear me out...

You realize that Lebron is on the path to being the greatest to ever play, right?

Statistically speaking anyway.


Over-rated, depends how people are rating him, but unless they are saying he is double the value of MJ or Wilt or something, then he is probably being rated correctly.

amos1er
03-13-2014, 01:43 AM
You realize that Lebron is on the path to being the greatest to ever play, right?

Statistically speaking anyway.


Over-rated, depends how people are rating him, but unless they are saying he is double the value of MJ or Wilt or something, then he is probably being rated correctly.

MJ and Wilt say hi. ;)

Tony_Starks
03-13-2014, 01:49 AM
Regardless of my reputation, I feel I raised some valid points.

A valid point is a valid point. In particular people putting him top 5 already or making like he can shut down all 5 positions..... or the infamous "he could (some random ridiculous stat) if he WANTED to!"

Whenever I hear any of those it crosses the line from fan to delusional groupie.

Jeffy25
03-13-2014, 01:54 AM
MJ and Wilt say hi. ;)
Just didn't read the rest of the post out of laziness, or what?

goku
03-13-2014, 01:56 AM
How you make an overrated poll and not include Hibbert or Paul George lol

COOLbeans
03-13-2014, 02:01 AM
George and Howard. They both tend to disappear

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 02:04 AM
A valid point is a valid point. In particular people putting him top 5 already or making like he can shut down all 5 positions..... or the infamous "he could (some random ridiculous stat) if he WANTED to!"

Whenever I hear any of those it crosses the line from fan to delusional groupie.

This is true lol.

Bostonjorge
03-13-2014, 02:21 AM
George and hibbert give lebron nightmares and even tho I believe Durant has surpass James I don't think lebron fears Durant.

My pick is Howard

Lakers + Giants
03-13-2014, 02:24 AM
I agree with George and Hibbert.

Max.This
03-13-2014, 02:25 AM
What I am saying is that he is overrated in the sense that people have always been giving him waaaaaaaaaaaaay more credit than he deserves. Calling himself "The King" before he won anything is the most overrated thing that can happen to a player IMO. .

Its a joke when I hear this guy get called the king in the media. Seriously, how do ppl live with themselves referring to someone else king.

spreadeagle
03-13-2014, 02:30 AM
K Love averaging 26.5 13 and 4..you guys are right hes a bum

Matter.
03-13-2014, 02:30 AM
Underrated? Mike Conley

Overrated? Maybe Curry, Dwight

amos1er
03-13-2014, 02:42 AM
Just didn't read the rest of the post out of laziness, or what?

Mostly.

Either way, I am reminded of a famous Mark Twain quote...

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Jeffy25
03-13-2014, 02:44 AM
Mostly.

Either way, I am reminded of a famous Mark Twain quote...

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."


Or......just read everything written to you.

amos1er
03-13-2014, 03:10 AM
Or......just read everything written to you.

I know you are but what am I. :eyebrow:

slashsnake
03-13-2014, 03:23 AM
Calling himself "The King" before he won anything is the most overrated thing that can happen to a player IMO.

The rest I am ok with, but you know that the "King James" bit was a play on words and he didn't actually think himself a monarch right? Paul George also uses the King George nickname.


Just like Hoiberg didn't consider himself a mayor of any town, Haslem "Django" doesn't think he is a slave to whites...

The rest... yes, but people do that with the best of their generation every time. It happened with Kobe. Oh he's the next MJ? Only a rookie of the year, 4 league MVP's, another ring, 2 more MVP runner ups, 4 more finals MVP's, 8 more scoring titles, 3 more steal titles, 7 more playoff scoring titles, and a defensive player of the year award away. Not to mention not meeting Jordan's level in the other stuff like assists, steals... blocks, rebounds, FG%, and having more turnovers per game. Basically he is worse in every measurable you can think of. When it comes to advanced numbers it adds 8 more years leading the league in efficiency, 8 more years leading the league in win shares, etc...

But people act like with another ring, they are on par with each other. Sorry, with another ring, you could still build two HOF NBA players out of what Kobe has failed to accomplish that Jordan did do.

Jeffy25
03-13-2014, 03:27 AM
I know you are but what am I. :eyebrow:

This is why I come to the NBA forum

Bostonjorge
03-13-2014, 04:19 AM
The rest I am ok with, but you know that the "King James" bit was a play on words and he didn't actually think himself a monarch right? Paul George also uses the King George nickname.


Just like Hoiberg didn't consider himself a mayor of any town, Haslem "Django" doesn't think he is a slave to whites...

The rest... yes, but people do that with the best of their generation every time. It happened with Kobe. Oh he's the next MJ? Only a rookie of the year, 4 league MVP's, another ring, 2 more MVP runner ups, 4 more finals MVP's, 8 more scoring titles, 3 more steal titles, 7 more playoff scoring titles, and a defensive player of the year award away. Not to mention not meeting Jordan's level in the other stuff like assists, steals... blocks, rebounds, FG%, and having more turnovers per game. Basically he is worse in every measurable you can think of. When it comes to advanced numbers it adds 8 more years leading the league in efficiency, 8 more years leading the league in win shares, etc...

But people act like with another ring, they are on par with each other. Sorry, with another ring, you could still build two HOF NBA players out of what Kobe has failed to accomplish that Jordan did do.

Kobe has more asst then Jordan and it will take kobe only 30 more games to pass him in points and rebounds. Also kobe has more all NBA first team, all defensive teams, all star selections, all star MVP's, all star points, all star rebounds and more 3 point FG's. Thens there stuff like more points in a single game, more points in a half, more 3 point FG's made, more consecutive 50 points games, more consecutive 600 points playoff scoring and when it's all said and done kobe should top jordan for more playoff points and be 1st ever. O yea ect....

So if u add a 2 more rings with this amazing career then why can't we put kobe neck and neck with Jordan? I know Jordan will since he himself says only kobe can compare to himself.

Ebbs
03-13-2014, 04:26 AM
Roy Hibbert
Kevin Love
Paul George
Lance Stephenson
Derrick Rose

ewing
03-13-2014, 08:27 AM
i think Rose is the most overrated franchise player

ewing
03-13-2014, 08:29 AM
Roy Hibbert
Kevin Love
Paul George
Lance Stephenson
Derrick Rose

How to the Pacers win so many games?

NYKnickFanatic
03-13-2014, 08:38 AM
Love and George.

archdevil84
03-13-2014, 08:53 AM
derrick rose
jeremy lin

Longhornfan1234
03-13-2014, 09:03 AM
Dwyane Wade. Outside of 2011 year... wade would be playing in Europe without LeBron.

Dade County
03-13-2014, 09:17 AM
Paul George, kobe (only because of age right now), kyrie, Hibbert, Harden (a little only).

Jarvo
03-13-2014, 09:44 AM
Hibbert is overrated because he's overpaid, But to me Chris Paul.

NYKnickFanatic
03-13-2014, 09:48 AM
K Love averaging 26.5 13 and 4..you guys are right hes a bum

Melo: 28, 8 and 3.

Also, no one said he's a bum. Overrated doesn't mean you're a bum.

Heatcheck
03-13-2014, 09:55 AM
Lebron. Before you bash me hear me out...

I don't deny that he is the best in the game today.

I don't deny that he is most likely going to be considered a top ten talent when all is said and done.

I don't deny that from a statistical standpoint he is one of the best to play the game.

What I am saying is that he is overrated in the sense that people have always been giving him waaaaaaaaaaaaay more credit than he deserves. Calling himself "The King" before he won anything is the most overrated thing that can happen to a player IMO. People saying that he is top 5 already is just plain ridiculous and overrated to me. People comparing him to Jordan only after 2 rings and going 2/4 in the finals is just blasphemous. People saying that he deserves the MVP over Durant this year is a crime. All those things are what makes him overrated in my eyes. I am not saying that he isn't great, I'm just saying that people make him out to be a lot better than he really is. Hence the definition of being overrated.

So dramatic. its a nickname, a play on words, nothing more. you realize Kobe doesn't believe he's an actual snake don't you?

NoahH
03-13-2014, 09:57 AM
Paul George for sure.

Tony_Starks
03-13-2014, 10:05 AM
How is George overrated? I don't see anybody saying he's the best player in the game. He usually gets called what he is: a up and coming superstar.

And what exactly is he doing wrong anyway? He plays great D, gets buckets, and has a winning impact on his team.

Heatcheck
03-13-2014, 10:08 AM
Kobe has more asst then Jordan and it will take kobe only 30 more games to pass him in points and rebounds. Also kobe has more all NBA first team, all defensive teams, all star selections, all star MVP's, all star points, all star rebounds and more 3 point FG's. Thens there stuff like more points in a single game, more points in a half, more 3 point FG's made, more consecutive 50 points games, more consecutive 600 points playoff scoring and when it's all said and done kobe should top jordan for more playoff points and be 1st ever. O yea ect....


So if u add a 2 more rings with this amazing career then why can't we put kobe neck and neck with Jordan? I know Jordan will since he himself says only kobe can compare to himself.

for starters, Kobes already played waaaay more games than Jordan, so having more assists or being close to passing him on pts (while shooting a much ******** %) isn't that impressive.

All that Allstar game stuff is completely irrelevant because its the allstar game.

And all these other little mini accomplishments are just insignificant in this type of comparison.

He doesn't come close. no one does really.

ManRam
03-13-2014, 10:20 AM
Paul George. As recently as a week ago I heard someone say he's the best two way player in the league. That's utterly hilarious to me. LaMarcus Aldridge is another great pick. The eagerness people had to crown these guys MVPs after a month or two was just astounding to me.


I think perception more or less meets reality for most these guys if we're talking about right now.

Kobe's hurt and past his prime. Even some Lakers fans are a bit disgruntled. If we're talking all-time, then it's a different story, perhaps.

Melo isn't hyped like he once was...not even close. I think perception is now closer to reality. I think some people perhaps have gotten so carried away that the scale may have even tipped towards underrated as a consensus at times.

LeBron and Durant are as good as anyone could make them out to be.

I think Love gets excessive praise from some who are too willing to ignore his defense, and excessive hate from others who can't separate his team's lack of talent from his individual greatness.

Curry's the best shooter perhaps ever IMO, so I find it hard to overrate him. I think his overall impact isn't quite as high as some Warriors fans suggest, but every player is for the most part overrated by their fans. I think most rate him pretty fairly.

Griffin probably has fled the overrated camp as his play has been HUGE lately. Because of his flashiness he long was overrated...but I think, again, most objective thinkers rate him fairly now.

Howard's too polarizing for me to grasp what the consensus is. If anything lately (the last ~2 years) he's been underrated, even as his play has clearly dripped. I don't think many treat him like he's the same player he was in Orlando, so I don't see a ton of overrating from him. But again, he's polarizing as hell.

ewing
03-13-2014, 10:29 AM
Paul George. As recently as a week ago I heard someone say he's the best two way player in the league. That's utterly hilarious to me. LaMarcus Aldridge is another great pick. The eagerness people had to crown these guys MVPs after a month or two was just astounding to me.


I think perception more or less meets reality for most these guys if we're talking about right now.

Kobe's hurt and past his prime. Even some Lakers fans are a bit disgruntled. If we're talking all-time, then it's a different story, perhaps.

Melo isn't hyped like he once was...not even close. I think perception is now closer to reality. I think some people perhaps have gotten so carried away that the scale may have even tipped towards underrated as a consensus at times.

LeBron and Durant are as good as anyone could make them out to be.

I think Love gets excessive praise from some who are too willing to ignore his defense, and excessive hate from others who can't separate his team's lack of talent from his individual greatness.

Curry's the best shooter perhaps ever IMO, so I find it hard to overrate him. I think his overall impact isn't quite as high as some Warriors fans suggest, but every player is for the most part overrated by their fans. I think most rate him pretty fairly.

Griffin probably has fled the overrated camp as his play has been HUGE lately. Because of his flashiness he long was overrated...but I think, again, most objective thinkers rate him fairly now.

Howard's too polarizing for me to grasp what the consensus is. If anything lately (the last ~2 years) he's been underrated, even as his play has clearly dripped. I don't think many treat him like he's the same player he was in Orlando, so I don't see a ton of overrating from him. But again, he's polarizing as hell.


Very good post. I will say that i do think George is one of the better two way players in the game. LeBron of course is the best. I agree LaMarcus is a good pick. I think Batum is one of the more underrated players in the league as well. So the Blazers got it covered

Slug3
03-13-2014, 10:39 AM
So dramatic. its a nickname, a play on words, nothing more. you realize Kobe doesn't believe he's an actual snake don't you?

He might come back and argue that the reason the snake has the name "Black Mamba" is BECAUSE of Kobe. So really the snake should thank Kobe.

JasonJohnHorn
03-13-2014, 10:41 AM
George and Hibbert

This is an interesting answer. I like both players a lot, but it does seem that a lot of people give them too much credit. I think a lot of the Pacers' success is team chemistry and coaching and culture set by guys like Bird. Those guys are great, but I think some are a little too high on them.



My pick is Melo, only because he finished third in MVP voting last year. He was ranked by many as the third or second best player in the game last year and I just don't think he is anywhere near that. He is a great talent, good scorer (I won't say great because I think about 30% of the league could score as much as him if given as many shots), and is he a solid rebounder as a SF, but his passing and defense simply isn't where it needs to be to rank him as the third best player in the league.


Great player, but highly overrated.

Tony_Starks
03-13-2014, 11:06 AM
Indy sure is doing a helluva job with not just 1 but 2 overrated starters. I don't see how they're the best in the east. Must be by sheer luck?

ManRam
03-13-2014, 11:14 AM
Indy sure is doing a helluva job with not just 1 but 2 overrated starters. I don't see how they're the best in the east. Must be by sheer luck?

Overrated =/= "bad" or anything. They're a great team...specifically defensively. Those two players are great players, especially at certain aspect of the game. However, Hibbert's offense has been inexcusably bad at times, and Paul George was placed on a ridiculous pedestal early in the season that he wasn't at all deserving of.

I mean, just to shed some light on how balanced they are, they have 5 players with 5.5+ win shares this season. Miami has 3, SAS has 1, Houston has 3, the Clips have 3, GSW has 3, OKC has 2.

The other team with 5? Portland.

So, when people were in such a hurry to credit George and Aldridge for a bulk of their team's success, I think it's understandable why some might see that as "overrating" them.

Jamiecballer
03-13-2014, 11:31 AM
for me it's Aldridge by a mile. after that Melo/Westbrook/Irving/Wall.

ewing
03-13-2014, 11:56 AM
Overrated =/= "bad" or anything. They're a great team...specifically defensively. Those two players are great players, especially at certain aspect of the game. However, Hibbert's offense has been inexcusably bad at times, and Paul George was placed on a ridiculous pedestal early in the season that he wasn't at all deserving of.

I mean, just to shed some light on how balanced they are, they have 5 players with 5.5+ win shares this season. Miami has 3, SAS has 1, Houston has 3, the Clips have 3, GSW has 3, OKC has 2.

The other team with 5? Portland.

So, when people were in such a hurry to credit George and Aldridge for a bulk of their team's success, I think it's understandable why some might see that as "overrating" them.

People saw PG as new member of the elite class in the NBA an got excited about him. Happens all the time. Still, he is a heck of player who i think most people rate as a second level star (not Bron, KD, CP3 but damn good). I have no issue with that rating PG is a heck of a player and true star in this league IMO. I too am confused as to why he the most popular answer in this thread.

Denver-boy
03-13-2014, 12:01 PM
Dirk and Tim Duncan.

TheScab
03-13-2014, 01:21 PM
Rajon Rondo most defintely. All of the trade rumors of a coveted "star" pg. Pierce, Garnett and Allen made him look better than what he really is. Plus he can't shoot. He's more of a role player than a star pg.

gwrighter
03-13-2014, 01:45 PM
Lance Stephenson

ewing
03-13-2014, 01:48 PM
David West and George Hill must be damn good

NYKnickFanatic
03-13-2014, 02:00 PM
Rajon Rondo most defintely. All of the trade rumors of a coveted "star" pg. Pierce, Garnett and Allen made him look better than what he really is. Plus he can't shoot. He's more of a role player than a star pg.

What are you basing this off of? This is his first year playing without all three of them and he is coming off an ACL injury. He is still trying to get healthy, can't play back to backs yet.

smood999
03-13-2014, 02:24 PM
How to the Pacers win so many games?

they are better collectively than they are individually...I think that's what most ppl are getting at

John Walls Era
03-13-2014, 02:27 PM
David West and George Hill must be damn good

sum is greater than its parts...

smood999
03-13-2014, 02:32 PM
I'm guessing all the "other" votes are for either Hibbert or George or both since they aren't on the poll

ewing
03-13-2014, 02:37 PM
sum is greater than its parts...


PG is a legit #1, Roy frequently falls asleep for 1/2 a season- so i get that, and Lance well, i asked mrs. ewing
who Lance Stephenson was and while she knew he played ball that was all she had. I know Lance got an all star nod but how could be the league's most overrate player when people don't know who he is?

ewing
03-13-2014, 02:56 PM
they are better collectively than they are individually...I think that's what most ppl are getting at


Neither is Wade, Deron Williams, or LaMarcus, or D Rose. IDK, i think they are all better bets the PG

ManRam
03-13-2014, 03:23 PM
PG is a legit #1, Roy frequently falls asleep for 1/2 a season- so i get that, and Lance well, i asked mrs. ewing
who Lance Stephenson was and while she knew he played ball that was all she had. I know Lance got an all star nod but how could be the league's most overrate player when people don't know who he is?

Yeah, I don't get how Lance is overrated. A year ago he wasn't on anyone's radar. He's a good player...and truly the type of player where most stats don't quite do him justice, especially things like PER. He's an intangible master.

Nick O
03-13-2014, 03:54 PM
So dramatic. its a nickname, a play on words, nothing more. you realize Kobe doesn't believe he's an actual snake don't you?

wait so Kobe isn't a snake?

Nick O
03-13-2014, 03:55 PM
Dirk and Tim Duncan.

love the sig :clap:

Nick O
03-13-2014, 03:57 PM
The Pacers collectively MIGHT have the best starting lineup in the game. but each individual player may not be as good as some of them are made out to be.

Goose17
03-13-2014, 05:06 PM
From that list, Love or Melo.

Outside of that list, Kyrie and Rondo.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 05:10 PM
Rondo

torocan
03-13-2014, 05:12 PM
LMA, Love, Irving (no defense), current Wade (beat up and getting older) and Lillard (he's very good but he's young and he's NOT as good as people were touting him at the beginning of the season. You're seeing that balance out now). Those are the ones that come to mind.

LeBron if you say he's top 5 all time RIGHT NOW. If you say he's on the road to top 5 all time, I can't argue with you there.

Westbrook... hard to say since he's so polarizing. Same with Dwight... people tend to overrate and underrate them.

I wouldn't say Griffin is overrated anymore. His play this season is living up to the hype train (finally).

Harden was overrated earlier in the season, right now I'd say he's a bit underrated (his defense has actually improved significantly).

Melo it's hard for me to judge this season. His numbers are phenomenal, but it's hard for me to say how much is him elevating his game, and how much is just because his surrounding talent completely sucks.

Deron Williams was seriously overrated the last few years. Right now, he might be shifting towards underrated.

lamzoka
03-13-2014, 08:01 PM
Kobe is the most overrated player of all time
Paul George
CP3

Jamiecballer
03-13-2014, 08:17 PM
Kobe is the most overrated player of all time
Paul George
CP3

considering some have him top 10 all time i think you could make a case for that. to me it's Iverson hands down, but Kobe would be really high on my list as well.

Hawkeye15
03-13-2014, 08:20 PM
Rondo

yeah, I agree with you 10000000%

Supreme LA
03-13-2014, 10:36 PM
D-Wade for sure.

Supreme LA
03-13-2014, 10:37 PM
considering some have him top 10 all time i think you could make a case for that. to me it's Iverson hands down, but Kobe would be really high on my list as well.

You're insane. D-Wade has got to be the most overrated player of all-time.

meloman1592
03-13-2014, 11:15 PM
Paul George or Kevin love

Trwood12
03-13-2014, 11:15 PM
"other" is for whoever you want because I'm to lazy to list every major player in the NBA. If you put other just post your choice.

Tony_Starks
03-13-2014, 11:15 PM
considering some have him top 10 all time i think you could make a case for that. to me it's Iverson hands down, but Kobe would be really high on my list as well.

I know right. Take away the rings, scoring record, MVP, Finals MVPs, 1st team all NBAs, 1 team all defenses, all time records, historic scoring outburst, and gold medal and really Kobe is just another good player.

Top 20 maybe, and that's being generous.

Kaner
03-13-2014, 11:51 PM
Rondo, Lilliard, Wall, and especially Irving come to mind.

Kaner
03-13-2014, 11:52 PM
I know right. Take away the rings, scoring record, MVP, Finals MVPs, 1st team all NBAs, 1 team all defenses, all time records, historic scoring outburst, and gold medal and really Kobe is just another good player.

Top 20 maybe, and that's being generous.

You know that probably DOES describe all of the top 20 players all-time right?

Supreme LA
03-13-2014, 11:59 PM
You know that probably DOES describe all of the top 20 players all-time right?

Yeah, if you count all of those not ranked 11-20. How dumb are you?

Blitzbolt
03-14-2014, 12:04 AM
Irving by far then love and kewi Lenoard or whatever his name is.

Kaner
03-14-2014, 12:58 AM
Yeah, if you count all of those not ranked 11-20. How dumb are you?

woah RELAX... #10 all-time to #11 isn't some sort of magical jump were you have to have that combination of accolades to make the jump those were mostly generic upper-echelon hall of fame accomplishments. Is David Robinson top 10 all-time because that could have easily described him? How about Dwayne Wade?

Tony_Starks
03-14-2014, 01:10 AM
woah RELAX... #10 all-time to #11 isn't some sort of magical jump were you have to have that combination of accolades to make the jump those were mostly generic upper-echelon hall of fame accomplishments. Is David Robinson top 10 all-time because that could have easily described him? How about Dwayne Wade?

I'm not sure but maybe if takes like two or three of those top 20 guys combined to equal your accomplishments maybe you're higher than them?

Bostonjorge
03-14-2014, 01:51 AM
for starters, Kobes already played waaaay more games than Jordan, so having more assists or being close to passing him on pts (while shooting a much ******** %) isn't that impressive.

All that Allstar game stuff is completely irrelevant because its the allstar game.

And all these other little mini accomplishments are just insignificant in this type of comparison.

He doesn't come close. no one does really.

I know this is going off topic but this is it. If kobe can lead all time in scoring and all time playoff scoring then that gives him a strong case. Throw in some more rings then he pass every other player(not jordan)ever for sure with that resume.

Back to topic I choose Howard because he started the season considered the best big man in the league C or PF.

abe_froman
03-14-2014, 01:56 AM
considering some have him top 10 all time i think you could make a case for that. to me it's Iverson hands down, but Kobe would be really high on my list as well.

having kobe in the top 10 isnt overrating,i'd say most(and respected people to) have him as a tier two guy(2-13)

John Walls Era
03-14-2014, 02:16 AM
PG is a legit #1, Roy frequently falls asleep for 1/2 a season- so i get that, and Lance well, i asked mrs. ewing
who Lance Stephenson was and while she knew he played ball that was all she had. I know Lance got an all star nod but how could be the league's most overrate player when people don't know who he is?

Idk. I think hes a great player.

slashsnake
03-14-2014, 02:24 AM
I know this is going off topic but this is it. If kobe can lead all time in scoring and all time playoff scoring then that gives him a strong case. Throw in some more rings then he pass every other player(not jordan)ever for sure with that resume.

Back to topic I choose Howard because he started the season considered the best big man in the league C or PF.

Multiple more rings with finals MVP's to go with them and you start having a case. The points and playoff points... ehhh. He's already played 40 more playoff games than MJ and doesn't have the points record. If he plays 55 or so more than MJ he could get it, but that doesn't sell me. Same with regular season points. Karl Malone has a lot more regular season points than Jordan. He played a full college career and retired twice for 5 years or so. The longetivity numbers for Jordan are good, but not what made him. Kobe's got 3 seasons already on Jordan, him playing more than him to equal his career numbers doesn't win me over. He'd have the career points over Jordan if Jordan didn't come back to play for the Wizards. Jordan's Wizard tenure isn't why I think he's better than Kobe though.

What made him was the same thing that has made Kobe. Alpha dog, finals alpha dog, great scorer, great defender, closer and intangibles.

Jordan still has the alpha dog. 5 MVP's and 2nd 3 more times
Kobe 1 MVP, 2nd once.

Playoff alpha dog.

Jordan 6 finals MVPs, 6 rings, top postseason scorer 10 times
Kobe, 2 finals MVP's, 5 rings, top postseason scorer 3 times

Great scorer:

Jordan led the league in scoring 10 times. As a rookie scored more points than anyone in the NBA. 30.1 points per game average.

Kobe led the league in scoring twice. 25.5 point per game average.

Defense:
Jordan 1 defensive MVP, 9 time defensive 1st team
Kobe 0 defensive MVP, 11 time defensive 1st team

Closing

Kobe in game 7's 22 points a game on 39% shooting
Jordan in game 7's 33 points a game on 49% shooting

Jordan 50% on game winners with the shot clock off
Kobe 28%

Intangibles. PER, rebounds, FG%, win shares, assists, steals, turnovers (who has fewer), blocks per game all favor Jordan. Every major stat except free throws (.838 vs. .835) and 3 pt shooting (327 to 335)

That favors jordan with 4 finals MVP's another ring, another 7 times leading the league in playoff scoring, 8 times leading the league in scoring, 4 reg season MVP's, 2 runner ups, over 5 points a game difference in scoring, a defensive MVP, a much improved clutch game, and basically improving every single facet of his game a LOT.


And Jordan accomplished nearly all that pre-wizards comeback... in 13 years (12 if you count that he was hurt almost the entire year once). Kobe is heading into year 19 (18 if you cound out this year due to injury) at that disadvantage. To me while Kobe comes close on the quantity in some numbers, when it comes to the quality of game he is still a LONG ways from Jordan.

Quantity. Horry has more boards in the playoffs than moses Malone. He's the better post-season rebounder.

Quality. Malone averaged 14 boards a game in the playoffs. Horry played in three times as many games and averaged less than 5 a game.



And yes, Kobe is a top 10 player all time if you ask me and the closest thing to Jordan since he retired from the bulls. Not knocking him at all, Jordan was a monster

Method28
03-14-2014, 03:05 AM
Can the people claiming CP3 is the most overrated player give some reasons why? That one just baffles me.

I would go with Kyrie (at the beggining of the year he was being touted as potentially the 2nd-3rd best PG in the NBA) Rondo (His offensive game is just too weak to carry a team) or Melo (looked at as a cornerstone/franchise player but is lazy on D, is a chucker and does not make his team mates better)

Kaner
03-14-2014, 03:10 AM
I'm not sure but maybe if takes like two or three of those top 20 guys combined to equal your accomplishments maybe you're higher than them?

First let me clarify that I wasn't questioning putting Kobe top 10 all-time I have him somewhere between 9-13 but that your reasoning for distinguishing him from top 10 to top 20 was generic with mostly irrelevant or highly specific to Kobe accolades. I mean anyone can list off a players career highlights and say THIS is the requirements for top 10 all-time and anyone who's career doesn't exactly mirror or exceed this isn't top 10.

I mean Magic doesn't have scoring records
Wilt never competed in the Olympics
Kareem doesn't have historic scoring outbursts (that I can recall)
Bird is 'only' 36th all-time in total points


All of them are higher up all-time then Kobe

Out of curiosity if Wade wins the MVP in 08-09(which he very arguably should have) is he now a top 10 player all-time to you when that's the only accomplishment you listed that he doesn't have? Did you even call him top 25 in the other thread? Do the .3 MVP award shares difference have that profound of an impact on his legacy? Does he move into your top 3 when the only players I can think of that completely match your requirements word for word are Kobe and Jordan?

IkeDoIt
03-14-2014, 04:57 AM
Carmelo is actually more in the underrated side for me. those who cite he doesnt pass or doesnt play defense dont watch the games in their entirity.
He passes, but his teammates dont score his passes consistently. his defense generically average. which isnt great, but it's not bad either

What CP3 does in terms of points, assists, and steals is exactly what you expect from a true PG. there are scoring PGs and pass first PGs, Paul and Rondo represent the few balanced PGs we have left in the league
I consider both to be rated pretty fairly in terms of their effectiveness.

Lebron as a player in this league today is rated pretty consistently. however in terms of overall legacy, people have jumped the gun if they already place him in the top 5 or on Jordan level already.

Most underrated is still Joakim Noah in my opinion. Most overrated goes to Dwight Howard. He's not even the best big man the Center-deficient NBA. Noah and Hibbert are better options, despite Hibbert's disappearing act at times

IkeDoIt
03-14-2014, 05:14 AM
Rondo isnt overrated due to his defensive ability(best at the PG position). his scoring doesnt have to carry a team if you look at how the PG position is supposed to be played. I'm hoping he can return to form when he fully recovers but he's great at the things a Point Guard is suppose to do.
Kyrie is up there in terms of overrated, but his rating was based on his scoring and handles. not to mention Rose, Westbrook, and Rondo were out at the beginning of the season when he was touted so highly.

As for Carmelo(Melo fan), watch the Knicks play and you'll see that there are public misconceptions about his game. night in and night out you will see him make alot of passes that his teammates dont convert into assists. you'll see Carmelo get blocks, and steals and rebounds over opposing PFs and Cs. his defense is actually average. as far as his shot seleciton you'll notice MULTIPLE times per game he misses the initial layup, grabs his own rebound, and makes the second or 3rd attempt. in the stat line its 1-2 or 1-3 whenever he does this, but its not as bad as usually. that said, he DOES go into chucker mode, since the midrange jumper is his favorite shot

stawka
03-14-2014, 05:35 AM
So last year, Blake Griffin was overrated and only a product of CP3. This year, CP3 is overrated? #psdlogic

lol @ people voting LeBron too

I would say Paul George and James Harden are the most overrated at the moment

slashsnake
03-14-2014, 06:39 AM
I would struggle to call Melo's D average at best, below average for long stretches though that is more based off his time in Denver, where I watched 300 or so of his games and he was more of a perimeter defender. I can understand daring Rondo to shoot over him, but he'd seem to want to dare guys like Ray Allen or Kobe to hit a midrange shot.

From what I have seen in the games in NY, I didn't see much difference on the perimeter when he is there. The worst thing I always hated is when someone sets a pick or screen and it seems like he just gives up and gives the guy time to get off 10 shots before he gets through it. Watching him play more PF I think pulls him out of those situations, but it wasn't good before. I think the playing the 4 has also helped with his... weak double (not sure how to call this). When he kind of takes a step into no mans land at the guy with the ball and just hangs there for the rest of the play. Not really close enough to double the ball handler, but not defending his guy either, just hoping he gets in the way of a pass coming by. He just seems a little discombobulated out there when a team gets cutting and screening and relies on his talent to put him in a position to defend someone.

In that time I can't remember him ever taking a charge either. Not bad especially for a perimeter guy. Kobe said that was one thing he learned from Jordan to keep his health. But with Melo I would see the wave at the ball D, or let his guy by and try for a block rather than move his feet to stop the play in the first place. Sure he'll get an occasional block from that or a steal off a big, but there's a reason the guys he covers this year have an effective field goal percentage on average right there with Blake Griffin.

Sure guys miss shots, I remember a few games seeing that with AI where he'd kick out 20 passes for good looks and only get 5 assists. But Melo seems to do a lot of that damage on his own. A lot of times his kickouts are only after burning up the clock in the iso and teammates are standing around because he won't find them on a cut to the hoop.

He is a fine rebounder at times, but again he will look like a guy who can be a 25-10 guy for a game, and the next look just disinterested on the boards. I do think you are dead on on that Moses Malone looking miss the layup and grab his board back again and again.

It just reminds me of a guy more getting by on talent well enough to not be bad, but without the effort to be good.

slashsnake
03-14-2014, 06:42 AM
And I will say he is a star. You can see that, especially at times in the playoffs when he does show that effort. THey got swept and his shot was off but that first playoff run with the Knicks he was playing all around good ball.

SeoulBeatz
03-14-2014, 08:54 AM
Can the people claiming CP3 is the most overrated player give some reasons why? That one just baffles me.

I would go with Kyrie (at the beggining of the year he was being touted as potentially the 2nd-3rd best PG in the NBA) Rondo (His offensive game is just too weak to carry a team) or Melo (looked at as a cornerstone/franchise player but is lazy on D, is a chucker and does not make his team mates better)

I dunno man, Rondo IS a subpar shooter, but (when healthy) he's the best passer in the league as far as I'm concerned. He's an anomaly because he can somehow dominate a game offensively without relying on his outside shot. He's one of the best in the league when it comes to driving the lane and he has an incredible knack for finding open shooters, he also picks his shots extremely well (hence his high FG percentages). If you surround him with offensively competent players, he'll light it up.

WARRIORS@GR
03-14-2014, 12:35 PM
Irving by far then love and kewi Lenoard or whatever his name is.If anything Leonard is massively underrated.

TheIlladelph16
03-14-2014, 01:10 PM
Based entirely on PSD fanbases, I think its hands down Paul George. He was being mentioned in the same breath as Lebron and Durant and third best player for a bit at the beginning of the season. That's obviously died down a bit, but talk about jumping the gun.

LMA is another one that I've always found to be overrated.

Tony_Starks
03-14-2014, 01:14 PM
First let me clarify that I wasn't questioning putting Kobe top 10 all-time I have him somewhere between 9-13 but that your reasoning for distinguishing him from top 10 to top 20 was generic with mostly irrelevant or highly specific to Kobe accolades. I mean anyone can list off a players career highlights and say THIS is the requirements for top 10 all-time and anyone who's career doesn't exactly mirror or exceed this isn't top 10.

I mean Magic doesn't have scoring records
Wilt never competed in the Olympics
Kareem doesn't have historic scoring outbursts (that I can recall)
Bird is 'only' 36th all-time in total points


All of them are higher up all-time then Kobe

Out of curiosity if Wade wins the MVP in 08-09(which he very arguably should have) is he now a top 10 player all-time to you when that's the only accomplishment you listed that he doesn't have? Did you even call him top 25 in the other thread? Do the .3 MVP award shares difference have that profound of an impact on his legacy? Does he move into your top 3 when the only players I can think of that completely match your requirements word for word are Kobe and Jordan?

Well first off my requirements were generic because I was being sarcastic with him. Anyone that says something as absurd as he's one of the most overrated of all time, there's no need for me to even get into specifics because its a waste of time, they're obvious a hater. But if we go specifics Kobes numbers speak for themselves.

But to your question I have Wade top 25 easy. I don't do MVP award shares or hypotheticals, I go by his body of work. 3rd best sg ever. Not sure where he ends up all time because of health and sacrificing his "legacy" to let Lebron be the man.

And I have Kobe at about 6 all time currently btw.

D-Leethal
03-14-2014, 01:14 PM
And I will say he is a star. You can see that, especially at times in the playoffs when he does show that effort. THey got swept and his shot was off but that first playoff run with the Knicks he was playing all around good ball.

Not one Knicks fan will tell you Melo doesn't play with effort. He has played with more heart and effort this season than I have ever seen before, pretty much every National analyst has given him credit for that despite the Knicks lack of success. Rebounding, blocks and overall defensive intensity is pretty much at an all time high. He will sometimes lazily close on a shooter but thats the exception and not the norm at this point. Sprinting back on defense is one thing I'd like to see improvements on, but you can say that about almost every offensive star - they take plays off - thats a fact of life.

Jamiecballer
03-14-2014, 01:28 PM
You're insane. D-Wade has got to be the most overrated player of all-time.
i might be insane but that's not the point. nobody views wade as a top 20-25 player unless i'm mistaken.

Jamiecballer
03-14-2014, 01:30 PM
I know right. Take away the rings, scoring record, MVP, Finals MVPs, 1st team all NBAs, 1 team all defenses, all time records, historic scoring outburst, and gold medal and really Kobe is just another good player.

Top 20 maybe, and that's being generous.

top 20 does sound about right to me. the first team all NBA's are great, but there are 5 of those given out every season. for a guy who has never been the best in the league top 10 seems a little crazy to me. that's just my person opinion. great player with great longevity.

barreleffact
03-14-2014, 02:17 PM
^Maybe didn't understand his sarcasm, but regardless, SHAME ON YOU! Kobe IMO has a top 5-10 Legacy all time. Never the best in the league? Was Russell EVER the best in the league? (Wilt) Was Hakeem? (Jordan) Personally I never thought Bird was the best either.(Magic) I mean, you could argue Kobe was never the best due to Shaq, Duncan, and Currently Lebron, but in between there like 04-07 he was arguably the hands down best and later was still top 5.

Edit: Kobe is EASILY top 10 IMO, but top 20 isn't a huge insult when you are that close to greatest ever territory

Tony_Starks
03-14-2014, 02:23 PM
top 20 does sound about right to me. the first team all NBA's are great, but there are 5 of those given out every season. for a guy who has never been the best in the league top 10 seems a little crazy to me. that's just my person opinion. great player with great longevity.

Well the league disagrees with you because he does have a MVP. And youre correct players get 1st team NBA every year but only a select few get them for like over a decade. While at same time getting multiple 1st defense at that.

But hey you're entitled to your opinion, I just wholeheartedly disagree. And most overrated ever does sound a bit exaggerated and haterish, to put it mildly.

Jamiecballer
03-14-2014, 03:25 PM
Well the league disagrees with you because he does have a MVP. And youre correct players get 1st team NBA every year but only a select few get them for like over a decade. While at same time getting multiple 1st defense at that.

But hey you're entitled to your opinion, I just wholeheartedly disagree. And most overrated ever does sound a bit exaggerated and haterish, to put it mildly.

it's not haterish. somebody has to be the most overrated, right? it just so happens i put Iverson at number 1 on that list, and off the top of my head Kobe would probably be number 2. he's a great great player but there have been plenty of great great players. i don't put Kobe in the rarified air of a top 10 all-time list. sue me. :)

lakerfan85
03-14-2014, 03:59 PM
Jodie Meeks..

Heatcheck
03-14-2014, 04:12 PM
You're insane. D-Wade has got to be the most overrated player of all-time.

Simply because you say so, as usual.

BHF
03-14-2014, 04:15 PM
lol everyone picks the player they don't like :facepalm: no one on that list is overrated

Heatcheck
03-14-2014, 04:15 PM
I know this is going off topic but this is it. If kobe can lead all time in scoring and all time playoff scoring then that gives him a strong case. Throw in some more rings then he pass every other player(not jordan)ever for sure with that resume.

Back to topic I choose Howard because he started the season considered the best big man in the league C or PF.

considering what we're talking about in this case, it doesn't, it really really doesn't.
And it still puts him on the waiting list behind a few people.

Goose17
03-14-2014, 04:18 PM
I dunno man, Rondo (when healthy) he's the best passer in the league as far as I'm concerned.

No he isn't, not even close. He only passes to people when he thinks he's actually going to get an assist from it, he's probably the most selfish player I've ever seen average double-digit assists. It's crazy.

Bang Bros89
03-14-2014, 04:21 PM
I tend to disagree with the assessment that Melo is overrated, given the fact that everyone continually criticizes his defense, ball-stopping, etc. Its gone so overboard to the point that I feel like Melo is underrated now.

He's just stuck in this Knicks situation playing in a system that doesn't utilize his talents, at all. His Olympic and All-Star performances is evidence enough. Melo could be the best catch and shoot player in the game, pair him with a decent PG and we've seen what he's capable of doing (Billups/WCF). If he leaves the Knicks, which he should, and goes to a team with a PG not named Felton, he'll automatically be viewed as a top 5 player again.

This may be coming from a Knicks fan, but I rather Melo leaves than the Knicks wasting another year and ending up with a mid round pick. Especially when I have to watch Melo busting his *** game in and game out and not be helped by his supporting cast.

Vinny642
03-15-2014, 06:29 AM
Pacers
Kyrie

TheNumber37
03-15-2014, 06:45 AM
I think it's unfair to name injured players or even ones past their primes... Kobe, Wade...

I really think Both Howard and James Harden are overrated. Howard's lack of Offensive Dominance is puzzling and I don't think Harden will ever be an elite defender and he hasn't really had to guard anyone... no one has really taken it to him for a series and I would love to see that. I might adjust my answer after, but I'd like to see Harden really have to defend for a playoff series.

BklynKnicks3
03-15-2014, 10:32 AM
Paul George