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View Full Version : Patrick Beverley - A dirty player? Yay or nay?



Goose17
03-11-2014, 05:34 PM
So I'm just reading this article (yeah it's a BR article, cut me some slack, I'm bored).
(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1988123-damian-lillard-is-latest-nba-point-guard-to-feud-with-patrick-beverley)



The guy is reporting on Lillards comments about Beverley;



Youíve got somebody out there that want to try to be bumping and doing little slick stuff. You know what I mean? Iím not going to buy into it, but Iím also not going to just let it fly. Iím going to say something. I mean, thatís what he does. I donít really care for that, but Iím just not going to let somebody be all in my chest, doing all this extra stuff. Thatís not basketball.

The terms "doing little slick stuff" and "that's not basketball" seem to imply that Lillard feels Beverley is a "dirty" player or using some sort of underhanded tactics.

And Lillard isn't the only one, a lot of people have had issues with Beverley....

Westbrook tore his meniscus during a steal attempt by Beverley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYevpkhZYc

And then there's this...

441049929939550209
439137370613768193





So my question has two parts;

1. From what you have seen do you think Beverley is a dirty player or is using underhanded tactics while defending?

2. If he is using underhanded tactics, do you condone it? I mean there's a difference between playing dirty (elbows in the throat, targeting guys injured areas etc) and using some "little slick stuff"



My opinion, I really, really like Beverleys game, I think he's underrated. I've seen him play guys like Lillard, CP3, Curry, Dragic etc just as well as anyone else in the league. Defensively, he's one of the best in his position. And the "little slick stuff", yeah, he does that, a lot. BUT I'm okay with it, like I said, it's not like he's deliberately hurting guys or targeting an injured limb or anything. I remember during the Warriors game, every time Curry would try and run along the baseline to lose him, Beverley would just nudge him out of bounds to slow him down and kill the play or tug on his jersey to slow him down and break up a play. It's clever, IMO, it's almost like a throwback to how guards defended in previous eras, and if the refs call it, he just has to live with it. I like it, as long as it doesn't cross that line.

Chronz
03-11-2014, 05:57 PM
Whos to say if its a part of basketball or not, all I know is that you've got to be quick as hell on your feet and tough mentally to do all the crap that lil guy does. It aint easy staying in front of your man in the non-handcheck era.

Asik's better
03-11-2014, 06:05 PM
Bevs is just in your face constantly. He represents what 90's basketball to a point. Trash talking, being tough and getting in the opponents face. A lot of his toughness comes from his play in Europe where there was riots and players having to play through tear gas. It made him tough and players today don't know how to deal with that. And it's not like the refs don't give him fouls. He has been fouled out in a fair amout of games.

rhino17
03-11-2014, 06:06 PM
I consider you a dirty player if you intentionally go out to hurt someone else. Not a lot of those players exist, ones that come to mind are Bruce Bowen, John Stockton, Reggie Evans, matt harping, and Derek fisher later in his career.

I view beverly more as an extreme irritant who plays close to the line and will always piss people off and you will hate if he is not on your team. Guys like Derek fisher during his first 10 years or so, jeff hornacek, Vernon maxwell, Ron Artest, Gary payton

ManRam
03-11-2014, 06:08 PM
I'd need more concrete examples than "LeBron is sick of him 'hounding' him" and "Cousins punched him".

Lillard's comments prove that Lillard thinks so...but who knows what that means?

The Westbrook play I have a hard time labeling as dirty. He was going for the steal, period. I LOVE Russell, but that's just a freaky and unfortunate play...not dirty IMO. He's a defensive pest, that's fine. Going for a steal there is certainly within the acceptable limits of aggressive play.


There have been a few plays lately that perhaps are questionable. He is an agitator at times, but that's a huge part of what makes him a really, really good defender. He gets under guys' skin. Nothing wrong with that.

I think breaking those down with video/GIFs is the best way to argue this...at least moreso than a quote and some tweets. But as is, I'd say he's not dirty. He's just a guy who busts his *** on defense...and sometimes that might come off as a little reckless, but dirty? IDK. I don't think I can get behind that yet.

FOBolous
03-11-2014, 06:22 PM
i definte a "dirty" player as a player who goes out and intentionally tries to hurt another player (i.e. Bruce Bower and Derek Fisher). Beverly doesn't do that. He's just in your face and is really annoying/pesky....he gets under your skin.

the Westbrook incidence was an unfortunate incident.

torocan
03-11-2014, 06:26 PM
The entire history of basketball pre-2004 is laughing right now.

"Oh no! He's jumping up and down! He's in my chest! Bad touching! Bad touching!"

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Folks have NO idea how much easier it is for perimeter players right now.

Hand checking? Gone.
3s rule added.
Chocking. Gone.
Player wrapping. Gone.
2 hands on opponents. Gone.

Bev is playing as tough a perimeter defense as they'll allow in today's NBA, which is a pale shadow of what they USED to do.

Mr_Jones
03-11-2014, 06:33 PM
Don't like the Rockets at all but I can't help but like watching Beverley play. Old-school, Payton-type. Sure, his stuff might be seen as over the top sometimes, but until he does something severe, I can't call him dirty. The Westbrook incident was an accident and him hounding these guys is to be expected from a PROFESSIONAL. I can't stand when I see people doing this **** in pickup games, but when you're a pro and expected to win and be tough, then I can understand it.

LOL at Lebron though. I hate that he gets so much **** but come on, he does say and do a lot of stupid ****. He does so much stuff that is so un-Jordan-like. "Leave me alone Beverley!"

Hawkeye15
03-11-2014, 06:39 PM
I consider you a dirty player if you intentionally go out to hurt someone else. Not a lot of those players exist, ones that come to mind are Bruce Bowen, John Stockton, Reggie Evans, matt harping, and Derek fisher later in his career.

I view beverly more as an extreme irritant who plays close to the line and will always piss people off and you will hate if he is not on your team. Guys like Derek fisher during his first 10 years or so, jeff hornacek, Vernon maxwell, Ron Artest, Gary payton

literally, this is the right answer.

Hawkeye15
03-11-2014, 06:40 PM
The entire history of basketball pre-2004 is laughing right now.

"Oh no! He's jumping up and down! He's in my chest! Bad touching! Bad touching!"

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Folks have NO idea how much easier it is for perimeter players right now.

Hand checking? Gone.
3s rule added.
Chocking. Gone.
Player wrapping. Gone.
2 hands on opponents. Gone.

Bev is playing as tough a perimeter defense as they'll allow in today's NBA, which is a pale shadow of what they USED to do.

don't confuse hard fouls with better defense. The league had PLENTY of soft defenders in it's "tough" days.

nastynice
03-11-2014, 06:49 PM
Not dirty. I've never seen anything out of him to make me believe he's tried to intentionally injure someone.

lol, what's the point of putting that lebron comment in there. That doesn't mean ANYthing, lol

OKC
03-11-2014, 06:56 PM
he's defense is just terrific, one of the best in the league.
a little dirty but I don't mind it.
the russ injury was not his fault though.

nastynice
03-11-2014, 06:58 PM
he's defense is just terrific, one of the best in the league.
a little dirty but I don't mind it.
the russ injury was not his fault though.

it was his fault for being stupid. But def not dirty.

Bruno
03-11-2014, 07:00 PM
i can't tell. i don't think so.

SteBO
03-11-2014, 07:01 PM
i definte a "dirty" player as a player who goes out and intentionally tries to hurt another player (i.e. Bruce Bower and Derek Fisher). Beverly doesn't do that. He's just in your face and is really annoying/pesky....he gets under your skin.

the Westbrook incidence was an unfortunate incident.
My point exactly. Beverly was in camp with the Heat the first year in 2010, and all coaches had to say about him was how fiesty and competitive the guy was defensively.

I've watched a ton of Houston games this year, especially of late, and I see nothing dirty about Pat Bev. He just annoys the hell out of people.....

Tony_Starks
03-11-2014, 07:26 PM
He reaches and uses his hands a lot. If they called him by the letter of the law he would foul out by halftime.

torocan
03-11-2014, 07:34 PM
He reaches and uses his hands a lot. If they called him by the letter of the law he would foul out by halftime.

It's really not much different than the "physical" play of Memphis, Indiana or the Bulls. If you defend by the "letter" of the NBA law, you wouldn't be able to defend. Not to mention the game would be unwatchable due to the sheer number of "ticky tack" fouls.

Memphis, Indiana and the Bulls bang folks all the time and at some point the referees make a choice to let certain stuff go that other teams don't get away with... however, we don't call that dirty. We just call that "physical" defense.

Monta is beast
03-11-2014, 08:12 PM
hell na I love the way he plays..thats the way I wish everyone played.

Tony_Starks
03-11-2014, 08:23 PM
It's really not much different than the "physical" play of Memphis, Indiana or the Bulls. If you defend by the "letter" of the NBA law, you wouldn't be able to defend. Not to mention the game would be unwatchable due to the sheer number of "ticky tack" fouls.

Memphis, Indiana and the Bulls bang folks all the time and at some point the referees make a choice to let certain stuff go that other teams don't get away with... however, we don't call that dirty. We just call that "physical" defense.

Yeah that's true. I just don't like the politics of once you get labelled a "tough defender" you get away with stuff other players don't.

But I'm not mad at Beverly though. He's definitely a throwback....

SportsFanatic10
03-11-2014, 08:42 PM
not dirty, just relentless. his great defense makes players look bad and they don't like him for it. i'm still upset that the heat decided to keep eddie house over beverley when the big 3 formed. but at the time his offense was even worse than it is now and riley wanted shooters and experienced vets.

Slug3
03-11-2014, 09:02 PM
If he's annoying enough players than he's doing something right.

Sadds The Gr8
03-11-2014, 11:24 PM
No hes awesome. Has that throwback attitude and doesn't give a **** what ppl think. Need more players in the league like him.

Westbrook got mad at him for that play last year when Westbrook had done that same **** several times before....

Slug3
03-12-2014, 01:00 AM
Just an FYI for you all. What he did today when OKC was calling a TO is the same thing he did last year at just about the same spot that injured Westbrooks knee. We may not think he's dirty. But after Westbrook felt with that play again, I'm sure he thinks he is.

savvy1803
03-12-2014, 01:49 AM
I believe he is chippy and plays with an edge don't know if i can label him outright dirty though .

Corey
03-12-2014, 02:26 AM
Players are usually lazy with the ball when they're about to cross half to call a TO.

I'd like to see more players go for those steals.

Monta is beast
03-12-2014, 04:16 AM
but that play where he did the same thing to westbrook when he went to call a t.o was a cheapshot.

John Walls Era
03-12-2014, 05:25 AM
Always need a player like this to win a championship. He might not be dirty, but hes definitely a pest.

D-Leethal
03-12-2014, 10:17 AM
Find me one man-to-man defensive stalwart in NBA history that wasn't deemed a dirty player.

I call it being a fierce competitor - wish their were more of those.

D-Leethal
03-12-2014, 10:18 AM
Always need a player like this to win a championship. He might not be dirty, but hes definitely a pest.

Agreed. Its sad the league has become sissified to the point where we need to trash guys who take that kind of pride in their defensive matchup.

Tony_Starks
03-12-2014, 11:10 AM
but that play where he did the same thing to westbrook when he went to call a t.o was a cheapshot.

It sure was. I was glad Russel reacted the way he did. It's like man you already blew out my knee once, wtf is your problem?

CluTcH_c1tY
03-12-2014, 11:16 AM
Love me some Beverley, but this past game his over aggressive style had him strapped to the pine. You take the good with the bad when it comes to Bev. While I don't agree with the foul he supposedly committed when Westbrook shot that 3, the refs where watching him very close.

torocan
03-12-2014, 11:31 AM
don't confuse hard fouls with better defense. The league had PLENTY of soft defenders in it's "tough" days.

Who's talking hard fouls?

I was talking NBA rule changes that basically made the paint and perimeter shooting WAY easier than it used to be
The changes to hand checking and the 3s rule alone made it ridiculously harder to defend perimeter players.

No, Beverley's defensive pressure is about as much as they'll allow in today's NBA... and that's a pale shadow of what they actually allowed in the old days within the rules.

tr3ymill3r
03-12-2014, 11:59 AM
They have referees for a reason to police the game and make sure that he isn't playing dirty. He is going to push it as far as the officials let him.

Stinkyoutsider
03-12-2014, 12:15 PM
Haven't seen enough of him yet but there's star players out there like Lillard and Curry who don't want someone sitting in their lap. Agressive defending frustrates players who have confidence in their abilities to score because it takes you out of your comfort zone. Instead of concentrating on scoring, Lillard and Curry are worrying about where Beverly is on the court so Beverly has done a good job.

I Rock Shaqs
03-12-2014, 12:21 PM
Tough defense is called dirty now?

KnickaBocka.44
03-12-2014, 12:22 PM
Who's talking hard fouls?

I was talking NBA rule changes that basically made the paint and perimeter shooting WAY easier than it used to be
The changes to hand checking and the 3s rule alone made it ridiculously harder to defend perimeter players.

No, Beverley's defensive pressure is about as much as they'll allow in today's NBA... and that's a pale shadow of what they actually allowed in the old days within the rules.

Could you refresh my memory on the 3s rule you keep bringing up?

torocan
03-12-2014, 12:35 PM
Could you refresh my memory on the 3s rule you keep bringing up?

Illegal defense.

In Shaq's day, Shaq could basically park his butt under the rim for 35 minutes. This meant that *ANYONE* heading for the rim would be facing a big man (and potentially a hard foul). This is a big part of the reason why you didn't see loads of combo guards (along with hand checking).

Essentially, what would happen is a guy like Westbrook would drive (assuming they got past the hand check), and nearly every time they would be met with a big Center or Power Forward. The Big didn't need to rotate and they didn't need to be defending anyone. They could just sit in the lane and wait.

Teams with good bigs essentially kept the paint shut down 24/7, which meant all you had was contested shots at the rim, mid-range jump shots and 3 pointers. Sounds great except making a jump shot was MUCH harder prior to previous rule changes. Wrapping, 2 hand defense and hand checking were also all eliminated, thus basically making it possible for the current wave of combo Point Guards to take over the league.

Forget hard fouls, the rule changes have made NBA defense a joke compared to pre-2004 (or the 90's, 80's, 60's, etc).

Goose17
03-12-2014, 12:57 PM
FYI, to all of you complaining about the tweets etc, I just lifted those out of the article (which I linked to) never said I agreed with it.

KnickaBocka.44
03-12-2014, 01:18 PM
Illegal defense.

In Shaq's day, Shaq could basically park his butt under the rim for 35 minutes. This meant that *ANYONE* heading for the rim would be facing a big man (and potentially a hard foul). This is a big part of the reason why you didn't see loads of combo guards (along with hand checking).

Essentially, what would happen is a guy like Westbrook would drive (assuming they got past the hand check), and nearly every time they would be met with a big Center or Power Forward. The Big didn't need to rotate and they didn't need to be defending anyone. They could just sit in the lane and wait.

Teams with good bigs essentially kept the paint shut down 24/7, which meant all you had was contested shots at the rim, mid-range jump shots and 3 pointers. Sounds great except making a jump shot was MUCH harder prior to previous rule changes. Wrapping, 2 hand defense and hand checking were also all eliminated, thus basically making it possible for the current wave of combo Point Guards to take over the league.

Forget hard fouls, the rule changes have made NBA defense a joke compared to pre-2004 (or the 90's, 80's, 60's, etc).

:facepalm: (at myself) I interpreted that as you talking about some rule/rules pertaining to the 3 point shot. Totally forgot about the old illegal D.

Tony_Starks
03-12-2014, 03:41 PM
Love me some Beverley, but this past game his over aggressive style had him strapped to the pine. You take the good with the bad when it comes to Bev. While I don't agree with the foul he supposedly committed when Westbrook shot that 3, the refs where watching him very close.

He slid under him when he shot. You have to allow the offensive player to land. That's one of the dirtiest moves you can make, if somebody comes down and lands on your foot their ankle is finished.

ghettosean
03-12-2014, 10:05 PM
Tough defense is called dirty now?

This is exactly what I was going to say.... This is how soft the league is now that tough defense is called dirty... This is a sad sorry era in the NBA.

NBA_Starter
03-12-2014, 10:16 PM
I don't have any problem with it at all. No freebies.

John Walls Era
03-13-2014, 05:45 AM
After reading the piece on Grantland, I might have to change my opinion. The guy might be dirty.

Hes definitely one of those guys that everyone (players) will hate in 1-2 years.

kobe4thewinbang
03-14-2014, 01:38 AM
but that play where he did the same thing to westbrook when he went to call a t.o was a cheapshot.

It sure was. I was glad Russel reacted the way he did. It's like man you already blew out my knee once, wtf is your problem?

He slid under him when he shot. You have to allow the offensive player to land. That's one of the dirtiest moves you can make, if somebody comes down and lands on your foot their ankle is finished.
Beverly is just plain stupid sometimes. I wonder if he's cracked in the head.
Reckless defense is not good defense. Nobody wants to get hurt while playing.

CityofChaos
03-14-2014, 03:04 AM
No. He works hard on the defensive end with amazing footwork and its refreshing to see tbh.