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View Full Version : How good would the Lakers have been if the Paul for Pau deal went through?



KingstonHawke
03-11-2014, 05:48 AM
As a Kobe fan (not a Lakers fan) I've thought about this countless hours, and I'm wondering what everyone else's opinions are.

How good would the Lakers have been these last few years if David Stern wasn't a scumbag?

A lot of people wonder how great Kobe would look next to an extremely ball dominant point guard like Paul... would that create easier looks for Kobe, improving his efficiency, and consistency on defense? Or would that throw the ultimate volume scorer of all time out of rhythm?

Also, what other moves do you all think would've been made? Obviously they wouldn't have signed Nash (which has been terrible). Howard, Paul, and Bryant are a ridiculously strong core to a team. And it sucks that we were robbed of getting to see them battle it out with the Spurs and Thunder for superiority over the west.

I live in Miami too... so I'd of LOVED to see that Lakers team match up against the Heat in the finals potentially.

Bruno
03-11-2014, 05:50 AM
they'd be excellent. paul is elite and Kobe would have been on the Duncan schedule since 2012. phil would be here. title contender in the west.

KingstonHawke
03-11-2014, 05:57 AM
Figured I should add the actual parameters of the deal just in case a few of you don't remember...

Lakers get:

Chris Paul

Hornets get:

Kevin Martin
Luis Scola
Gordan Dragic
Lamar Odom
2012 1st round pick

Rockets get:

Pau Gasol

Personally... I think the Lakers would've won at least two of the last three titles. It would've been very interesting to watch them play against the Thunder. But other than the Thunder, I don't think there's a team in the league that could compete in a 7 game series. Especially the Heat who have a really tough time guarding the 1 and the 5.

5ass
03-11-2014, 06:10 AM
Im not in love with the idea of kobe and paul. Kobe will take the ball out of pauls hands in the clutch, and paul is better in the clutch. I think a worse player but much better fit can create the same impact. Ultimately it was better for paul to go to the clippers. He has a young core to play with for years to come.

KingstonHawke
03-11-2014, 06:13 AM
One more thing I wanted to add before going to sleep and checking on this thread tomorrow was how nice the Hornets were actually making out...

PG: Jarret Jack (11 pts, 5 ast), Goran Dragic (7 pts, 3 ast)
SG: Kevin Martin (20 pts, 4 ast)
SF: Trevor Ariza (11 pts, 5 rbs)
PF: Luis Scola (18 pts, 8 rbs), Lamar Odom (10 pts, 10 rbs)
C: David West (19 pts, 8 rbs) Emeka Okafor (10 pts, 10 rbs)

Those are all the stats that they were coming off of at the time of the trade. And the 1st round pick ended up being the 16th overall that the Rockets used on Royce White.

That's a playoff team easy if they stayed healthy. Although, that "if" is pretty significant. So maybe the GM would go the other direction and just use all of those expiring contracts to trade for young talent. Remember, it was Kevin Martin who's expiring got James Harden.

KingstonHawke
03-11-2014, 06:15 AM
Im not in love with the idea of kobe and paul. Kobe will take the ball out of pauls hands in the clutch, and paul is better in the clutch. I think a worse player but much better fit can create the same impact. Ultimately it was better for paul to go to the clippers. He has a young core to play with for years to come.

You think the Clippers are actual contenders? They are fun to watch, but I don't see them getting out of the 2nd round any time soon.

Asik's better
03-11-2014, 06:20 AM
Lakers would be awesome and Dwight would of stayed assuming that trade happens. Hornets and rockets would be fringe playoff teams not going anywhere. Honestly only the lakers would be better off if that trade went through.

slashsnake
03-11-2014, 06:39 AM
I'd have to say they would have a better future, but I don't see how they would be better right now than Paul and his team was in New Orleans. They could only get out of the first round once with Paul there, and had guys like David West, Chandler, and Thornton who are better than anyone else suiting up for LA.

Maybe Phil stays, but I think that had more to do with Kobe and the ownership than the roster. Maybe Dwight stays, or maybe LA doesn't even think of making a move for him. But if you switched Pau and Paul, I think you have a really weak interior team.

5ass
03-11-2014, 07:31 AM
You think the Clippers are actual contenders? They are fun to watch, but I don't see them getting out of the 2nd round any time soon.
Yes.

JasonJohnHorn
03-11-2014, 07:57 AM
That Paul deal would have still allowed for the Bynum/Dwight deal as well, so Dwight, CP3 and Kobe... plus ring chasers.

Dwight wanted to play with CP3 all along, so I think they would have kept Dwight, if not, they would have lost both players and be even worse.

That said, the deal they ended up making was perhaps better for New Orleans at the time and it IS better for the league over all (now we have three teams who will be playoff teams next year: LAC, HOU and NO, as opposed to one playoff team that is dominant in LAL.

Chronz
03-11-2014, 12:58 PM
I forget, Phil is still coaching, right? Or does D'Antoni still ruin his team, does Brown still install the idiotic princeton system for this crew? Both are factors that prevent championship gold.


One more thing I wanted to add before going to sleep and checking on this thread tomorrow was how nice the Hornets were actually making out...

PG: Jarret Jack (11 pts, 5 ast), Goran Dragic (7 pts, 3 ast)
SG: Kevin Martin (20 pts, 4 ast)
SF: Trevor Ariza (11 pts, 5 rbs)
PF: Luis Scola (18 pts, 8 rbs), Lamar Odom (10 pts, 10 rbs)
C: David West (19 pts, 8 rbs) Emeka Okafor (10 pts, 10 rbs)

Those are all the stats that they were coming off of at the time of the trade. And the 1st round pick ended up being the 16th overall that the Rockets used on Royce White.

That's a playoff team easy if they stayed healthy. Although, that "if" is pretty significant. So maybe the GM would go the other direction and just use all of those expiring contracts to trade for young talent. Remember, it was Kevin Martin who's expiring got James Harden.

No way thats a playoff team, even if we ignore the massive decline in most of the players involved, which we shouldn't considering all players involved were getting older and a guy like Odom was naturally expected to regress based on the fluke rule. Stern was a great manager in that he did what was best for a team trading its star, he got them to bottom out and a chance at a true cornerstone.

And it was more than Kevin Martin that hauled in Harden.

beyourself
03-11-2014, 01:02 PM
Have people already forgotten about Pau bailing out the Lakers in the Finals just a few years ago?

Tony_Starks
03-11-2014, 01:11 PM
Kobe wouldve had ring 6. CP3 and Dwight wouldve had ring 1.

KingstonHawke
03-12-2014, 02:38 AM
I forget, Phil is still coaching, right? Or does D'Antoni still ruin his team, does Brown still install the idiotic princeton system for this crew? Both are factors that prevent championship gold.



No way thats a playoff team, even if we ignore the massive decline in most of the players involved, which we shouldn't considering all players involved were getting older and a guy like Odom was naturally expected to regress based on the fluke rule. Stern was a great manager in that he did what was best for a team trading its star, he got them to bottom out and a chance at a true cornerstone.

And it was more than Kevin Martin that hauled in Harden.

Massive decline in who exactly? The only player you can make that case for was Odom, and he was actually trending up at the time. That wasn't a fluke year at all. Any Lakers fan will tell you, Odom had been balling the years prior to that, and looked like he was finally comfortable, but then getting dumped threw him into a hissy fit and he fell off a cliff.

I agree with whoever said that that team isn't a contender for the championship, but you're crazy if you say they wouldn't have a chance at making the playoffs. 3 potential 20 pt scorers in the starting lineup, two 6th man candidates... and I haven't even mentioned Dragic yet who at this point might be the best of the bunch. 4 years of that team destroys 4 years of Davis led Pelicans... easily. Have you even been watching the Pelicans? That Gordon contract (the one they were forced into by this specific trade not happening) has haunted them since it happened. Stern basically forced them to max out a player with a bum knee.

Far as the Rockets go... what they get didn't matter because Stern's "basketball reasons" were only in reference to the Hornets. But I'm a bigger Pau fan than most. And I'm also very big on Parsons and Asik. You add someone like Deron Williams or Andre Iguadala to that roster and that's a contender. If you can't have a top 5 player on your team, the next best thing is to have very strong two way post play.

Chronz
03-12-2014, 03:02 AM
Massive decline in who exactly? The only player you can make that case for was Odom, and he was actually trending up at the time. That wasn't a fluke year at all. Any Lakers fan will tell you, Odom had been balling the years prior to that, and looked like he was finally comfortable, but then getting dumped threw him into a hissy fit and he fell off a cliff.
Odom qualified for the "fluke rule" and predictably declined, granted more than we all expected, K-Mart declined, Scola declined on both ends. The only guy who was ascending was Dragic.



I agree with whoever said that that team isn't a contender for the championship, but you're crazy if you say they wouldn't have a chance at making the playoffs. 3 potential 20 pt scorers in the starting lineup, two 6th man candidates... and I haven't even mentioned Dragic yet who at this point might be the best of the bunch.
Nonsense, thats a team thats not good enough to make the playoffs but not nearly bad enough to win a lotto pick. Martin, Scola and a severely unhappy Odom would have been abysmal defensively, who exactly is anchoring that team? If you want to talk about production, show me some because raw PPG is useless without knowing their efficiency. Besides, I dont see 3 potential 20pt scorers, I see guys who dont mesh and need to play in different systems to optimize their output to such a degree. Kevin Martin never thrived in Lowry/Dragic's PnR oriented system so why would he alongside inferior/declining teammates who also need the ball?




4 years of that team destroys 4 years of Davis led Pelicans... easily. Have you even been watching the Pelicans? That Gordon contract (the one they were forced into by this specific trade not happening) has haunted them since it happened. Stern basically forced them to max out a player with a bum knee.
Nobody forced them into that but I dont see how 4 years of being a treadmill team is better than having an actual cornerstone. Particularly one as productive and promising as Davis. Its better to have hope than know you're never going to be good enough and saddled with a declining core that actually declined faster than anyone expected.

Chronz
03-12-2014, 03:11 AM
Facts: Kevin Martin saw his rate of production decline in the 3 years following, to the point where hes a pretty mediocre player given his defensive inadequacies. Odom declined MASSIVELY, to the point where he instantly became a below average player and has never recovered. Scola was entering his 30's, producing at an inefficient rate, and was so irrelevant to the Rockets that they waived him outright without any slippage. He went on to post decent enough stats but wasn't much of a defender.

Those are the guys you're expecting to lead them to the playoffs? Assuming you're right, why would that be such a good position, knowing that this core was declining, and continued to prove it demonstrably so?

IKnowHoops
03-12-2014, 03:28 AM
Not close to what the Clippers are with him. CP3 would be mad right now if he was on the lakers.

Mcdoh
03-12-2014, 03:51 AM
it would be fun to watch paul,kobe,d12 against wade,lebron,bosh

Alayla
03-12-2014, 04:21 PM
The big problem with this thread is people seem too forget the CP3 thing happened BEFORE the Howard thing and they wouldn't have got Howard if they got CP3 so odds are it still wouldn't have worked out.

COOLbeans
03-12-2014, 04:27 PM
Figured I should add the actual parameters of the deal just in case a few of you don't remember...

Lakers get:

Chris Paul

Hornets get:

Kevin Martin
Luis Scola
Gordan Dragic
Lamar Odom
2012 1st round pick

Rockets get:

Pau Gasol

Personally... I think the Lakers would've won at least two of the last three titles. It would've been very interesting to watch them play against the Thunder. But other than the Thunder, I don't think there's a team in the league that could compete in a 7 game series. Especially the Heat who have a really tough time guarding the 1 and the 5.

Pelicans would be a lot better, and the West would be even more competitive with the Lakers as true contenders. The Clippers may still be irrelevant and Houston would be battling for the 8th seed if that.

Jeffy25
03-12-2014, 04:32 PM
Figured I should add the actual parameters of the deal just in case a few of you don't remember...

Lakers get:

Chris Paul

Hornets get:

Kevin Martin
Luis Scola
Gordan Dragic
Lamar Odom
2012 1st round pick

Rockets get:

Pau Gasol

Personally... I think the Lakers would've won at least two of the last three titles. It would've been very interesting to watch them play against the Thunder. But other than the Thunder, I don't think there's a team in the league that could compete in a 7 game series. Especially the Heat who have a really tough time guarding the 1 and the 5.

I dunno if 2 out of 3 would have been won, with the Heat and Lebron going in the East.

But Paul, Kobe, and Howard would have been really awesome last year, and maybe Kobe doesn't try to be a hero all year.

This would be a good team, but Pau isn't a bad player either....but he's a very different kind of player.

Jeffy25
03-12-2014, 04:33 PM
The big problem with this thread is people seem too forget the CP3 thing happened BEFORE the Howard thing and they wouldn't have got Howard if they got CP3 so odds are it still wouldn't have worked out.

Wouldn't they still have gone after Howard though? (potentially)

lakerfan85
03-12-2014, 04:39 PM
The big problem with this thread is people seem too forget the CP3 thing happened BEFORE the Howard thing and they wouldn't have got Howard if they got CP3 so odds are it still wouldn't have worked out.

The plan was to get CP3 and Howard..

lakerfan85
03-12-2014, 04:41 PM
I dunno if 2 out of 3 would have been won, with the Heat and Lebron going in the East.

But Paul, Kobe, and Howard would have been really awesome last year, and maybe Kobe doesn't try to be a hero all year.

This would be a good team, but Pau isn't a bad player either....but he's a very different kind of player.

Kobe wouldn't have played all those minutes that he played last season for sure.. D'antoni would have never been hired to coach that team..

shep33
03-12-2014, 05:03 PM
What if the Pelicans flipped Martin plus fillers for Harden?

valade16
03-12-2014, 05:19 PM
Whether or not this was good for the Lakers, it would have been disastrous for the Pelicans if they didnít get Anthony Davis.

valade16
03-12-2014, 05:20 PM
What if the Pelicans flipped Martin plus fillers for Harden?

So they would have had Goran Dragic and James Harden instead of Anthony Davis?

Kings Faithful
03-12-2014, 05:38 PM
Man, that trade would've totally changed the makeup of the west as we know it today. Rockets would be bad, Hornets would've been a good team with a lot of assets and the Lakers might have been championship contenders.

savvy1803
03-12-2014, 05:50 PM
Im not in love with the idea of kobe and paul. Kobe will take the ball out of pauls hands in the clutch, and paul is better in the clutch. I think a worse player but much better fit can create the same impact. Ultimately it was better for paul to go to the clippers. He has a young core to play with for years to come.
Not entirely factual , they looked pretty good playing in the olympics together and various all star games , he would have had to adjust his game but playing with a premier point guard like Paul i feel he could have done just that but again we will never know because of Stern .

shep33
03-12-2014, 05:51 PM
So they would have had Goran Dragic and James Harden instead of Anthony Davis?

Seems like a fair trade. Arguably the best backcourt in the NBA and they're set for the next 6-7 years

Cracka2HI!
03-12-2014, 06:13 PM
No way to tell. Most likely they'd be very good but to just assume Phil Jackson would be coaching isn't an assumption I'm going make. If Mike Brown or Mike D were the coach which I feel is likely due to Jim Buss the team may or may not have held on to CP3 and Howard. I'm not sure CP3 and Bryant would get along on the floor. I will admit the Lakers master plan was brilliant. However they found a sucker GM with the Hornets and an actual owner would have nixed that trade...just like the actual NBA owners did.

Chronz
03-12-2014, 07:06 PM
What if the Pelicans flipped Martin plus fillers for Harden?

Which fillers? The Rox gave up a decent prospect

shep33
03-12-2014, 07:22 PM
Which fillers? The Rox gave up a decent prospect

True, it'd be tricky, but they could've probably given up a couple future picks, plus they had young guys like Thornton, Pondexter, Bellinelli, etc.