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Ebbs
03-10-2014, 11:34 AM
People are constantly so caught up in comparing current greats to the past. There is constant is so and so as good as Jordan etc. . . Basketball's best days were in the late 80's and early 90's. . . .

Has it gotten to the point where people don't recogonize the talent right now? Durant and LeBron are playing at as high a level as it gets.

Dirk, Garnett, Carter, Pierce, Duncan, Kobe, Nash*, Allen, Iverson, T-Mac are all ending or have ended careers that will be remembered forever.

Anthony Davis is going to be special.

Blake Griffin and Kevin Love are putting up eye popping numbers. The NBA as a whole is going off but in general I see so much negative feedback.

Are you satisfied with the current league and it's talent base?

mightybosstone
03-10-2014, 11:58 AM
This is a great point, and it's one I wish more fans would recognize. The NBA is in a transition period between the end of one of the greatest influxes of talent in league history and the next great era of NBA players, but all anybody wants to do is ***** about how different the game is or talk about how it's not as talented. Meanwhile, you have two players putting up ridiculous, historically relevant numbers (Durant, Lebron) while battling for the MVP, you've got some insanely talented players reaching their stride (Curry, Love, Griffin, Harden, George, Cousins), some obviously talented young players about to break out in a big way (Davis, Drummond) and great all-time veterans still playing at a high level (Dirk, Garnett, Wade).

Is this the most talented period in the history of the league? Probably not. But let's not pretend like the league is completely devoid of talent, either. And things will be even sweeter once this next draft class realizes its potential at the NBA level. If fans would just take five minutes to stop living in the past and start realizing the present, we'd have a lot more appreciation for the greatness of this current era of NBA athletes.

Goose17
03-10-2014, 12:16 PM
People will look back on this time with fonder memories than they would like to admit.

A lot of fans are so caught up in what has already happened that they can't enjoy the moment, I love this league and the way it is right now, it's not at it's best but there's still a lot of incredible talent and fun rivalries to see. People need to take off their rose tinted shades and take a look at what's going on around them.

The_Jamal
03-10-2014, 12:19 PM
This is a great point, and it's one I wish more fans would recognize. The NBA is in a transition period between the end of one of the greatest influxes of talent in league history and the next great era of NBA players, but all anybody wants to do is ***** about how different the game is or talk about how it's not as talented. Meanwhile, you have two players putting up ridiculous, historically relevant numbers (Durant, Lebron) while battling for the MVP, you've got some insanely talented players reaching their stride (Curry, Love, Griffin, Harden, George, Cousins), some obviously talented young players about to break out in a big way (Davis, Drummond) and great all-time veterans still playing at a high level (Dirk, Garnett, Wade).

Is this the most talented period in the history of the league? Probably not. But let's not pretend like the league is completely devoid of talent, either. And things will be even sweeter once this next draft class realizes its potential at the NBA level. If fans would just take five minutes to stop living in the past and start realizing the present, we'd have a lot more appreciation for the greatness of this current era of NBA athletes.

It's getting pretty damn close to being the most talented period in league history. Legacy aside, Durant and Bron are playing as good as any other twosome in league history. CP3 is getting ignored with the Bron-Durant MVP battle, but he's putting up all-time great PG numbers. Davis, Cousins, Love, and Blake are all putting up equal or better seasons than all-time great bigs did at their age.

Along with the other guys you mentioned, you have to take into account the extreme depth of some positions like PG and PF or the emergence of some the better defensive C"s we've seen in a long time (imo) with guys like Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Noah, and Tyson Chandler.

Mr_Jones
03-10-2014, 12:19 PM
No, this is not quality basketball. The next generation is not basketball in my eyes. Few post players, everything turns into an isolation play, flopping is everywhere, superstar calls getting more and more ridiculous. There's hardly any real team-oriented basketball.

FOBolous
03-10-2014, 12:20 PM
I think so. Any top 9 team in the western conference could be an elite team in any other era.

D-Leethal
03-10-2014, 12:28 PM
Every generation has tremendous talent. The quality and integrity of the actual games is cringe-worthy at times and the league has rightfully earned the reputation of a sissified sport where toughness is all but eliminated.

Shammyguy3
03-10-2014, 01:10 PM
No, this is not quality basketball. The next generation is not basketball in my eyes. Few post players, everything turns into an isolation play, flopping is everywhere, superstar calls getting more and more ridiculous. There's hardly any real team-oriented basketball.

The Blazers, Rockets, Spurs, Warriors, Clippers, Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Grizzlies, Suns, Mavericks, and even the Heat are all team-oriented. Having star players on a team doesn't mean all you get is isolation plays. Let's also not forget something that you have seemingly forgotten: you hate that there are few post players today and then validate it with people constantly using isolation plays.

Have you forgotten that post-players are just as capable of isolation plays as guys on the perimeter? It's all the same if it's a one-on-one situation.

Heatcheck
03-10-2014, 01:31 PM
No, this is not quality basketball. The next generation is not basketball in my eyes. Few post players, everything turns into an isolation play, flopping is everywhere, superstar calls getting more and more ridiculous. There's hardly any real team-oriented basketball.

where were you in the 90s, especially the second half of it?

mdm692
03-10-2014, 01:42 PM
I think so. Any top 9 team in the western conference could be an elite team in any other era.

:confused:

Bruno
03-10-2014, 01:56 PM
i'm more than satisfied with the talent. the talent is great.

my problem is with the way the game is being played. not being able to put a hand on the offensive player and the lack of legitimate back to the basket post-players is changing the way the game is played. i don't like the change int he game, thats my preference.

i don't like turning on the Lakers and seeing scrubs and role players blow up for huge nights, or go on 3-4 game streaks where they look like all-stars. i don't like how we have a league where a team with the right system can cycle scrubs who can take over games (like we've seen Farmar, Marshall, Young, Meeks and Johnson do this season). dantoni era Lakers would have gotten absolutely CRUSHED twenty years ago, as they should be every night. they wouldn't be upsetting Portland and OKC. t think its too easy to score in todays league and I think its created a league where guards are unguardable. getting into the paint is way too easy for guards. this league has been taken over by PGs for this reason, you can't guard them now.

Mr_Jones
03-10-2014, 02:00 PM
where were you in the 90s, especially the second half of it?

I didn't say I liked that either.

Sadds The Gr8
03-10-2014, 02:01 PM
i'm more than satisfied with the talent. the talent is great.

my problem is with the way the game is being played. not being able to put a hand on the offensive player and the lack of legitimate back to the basket post-players is changing the way the game is played. i don't like the change int he game, thats my preference.

i don't like turning on the Lakers and seeing scrubs and role players blow up for huge nights, or go on 3-4 game streaks where they look like all-stars. i don't like how we have a league where a team with the right system can cycle scrubs who can take over games (like we've seen Farmar, Marshall, Young, Meeks and Johnson do this season). dantoni era Lakers would have gotten absolutely CRUSHED twenty years ago, as they should be every night. they wouldn't be upsetting Portland and OKC. t think its too easy to score in todays league and I think its created a league where guards are unguardable. getting into the paint is way too easy for guards. this league has been taken over by PGs for this reason, you can't guard them now.
this

Mr_Jones
03-10-2014, 02:05 PM
The Blazers, Rockets, Spurs, Warriors, Clippers, Pacers, Bulls, Raptors, Grizzlies, Suns, Mavericks, and even the Heat are all team-oriented. Having star players on a team doesn't mean all you get is isolation plays. Let's also not forget something that you have seemingly forgotten: you hate that there are few post players today and then validate it with people constantly using isolation plays.

Have you forgotten that post-players are just as capable of isolation plays as guys on the perimeter? It's all the same if it's a one-on-one situation.

I should have clarified that the perimeter players playing iso-ball are the ones I nitpick with. However, quality post players don't need more than a few seconds to put the ball on the floor and attempt a shot. Which really is not much of an isolation when considering how much time is needed for the majority of players who play perimeter iso-ball. I see countless times of holding the ball out around the 3, waiting, waiting, waiting, dribbling, forced shot. It takes too much time.

Also, the only teams out of the ones you listed that I enjoy watching are the Spurs, Blazers, (sometimes Warriors), Pacers, Grizz. Can't watch the Rockets or Heat, especially. That's what ties into the whole superstar calls. Harden runs into players and go to the line and Wade and Bron get ridiculous calls. It's not their fault (maybe it is), but the fact that this is just how basketball is played now is disgusting to me.

Bruno
03-10-2014, 02:05 PM
guards are now allowed to just dribble penetrate and take over games because they can't be touched. THIS is the main reason why our big men haven't developed post games. its better to have a stretch 4 or 5 at the perimeter or elbow than a big guy with moves who clogging up space for the guards. not being able to put a hand on the guards anymore is responsible for whats happened to our big men (along with nobody developing a post game in college, the NBA is too damn fast for young players to develop post moves in). little PG sized, wana be two guards are a lot more common and easier to find than legitimate big men, so it makes sense to create a system where they can by cycled in as stars than banking on the next big guy to be a dominant player.

DetroitBadBoy
03-10-2014, 02:05 PM
People greatly undervalue today's NBA players. The advanced technology and training provides us with amazing athletes and a faster game.

Bruno
03-10-2014, 02:07 PM
the paint is where grown men go to dominate. thats great basketball, where our bigs can battle and establish position. theres something wrong with the league if little guys under 6'5 are pushing them out of their element and working them inside; guards should fear attacking the basket- in todays NBA they do not. why would they? all the rules are in their favor.

49ersLALSFGiant
03-10-2014, 02:08 PM
The talent isn't the issue, if anything the league is getting more talented. The league just needs to bring defense back into the game. Get rid of flopping even if it takes drastic measures, bring back hand checking, get rid of ridiculous superstar calls and stop calling a flagrant on every hard foul.

Heatcheck
03-10-2014, 02:10 PM
I didn't say I liked that either.

touche

Wade n Fade
03-10-2014, 02:12 PM
Yes, people are taking stuff for granted. This is a new era where there are so many spectacular point guards and the disappearance of a traditional 5. Bigs are allowed to leave the paint and stretch the floor. Dirk and other predecessors are the pioneer players in the stretch the floor movement. Now, we see the 3 best SFs in the game play the 4 at times. There are some good coaches out there. The Lakers, C's, and Knicks are in a slump, which is good because other markets can get coverage more often, but the NBA doesn't flex schedules for national games. So many great players are leaving and I can tell my kids I watched the Big Fundamental or Steve Nash. Too many people focus on factions, rigging, refs, and the lotto. Teams consisting of three big time players that are "friends" seems to anger a lot of people as well.

Heediot
03-10-2014, 02:19 PM
I think Jerry West is righ, the top level talent in this league is lacking. Too much expansion has made the league watered down.

Bruno
03-10-2014, 02:20 PM
Yes, people are taking stuff for granted. This is a new era where there are so many spectacular point guards and the disappearance of a traditional 5. Bigs are allowed to leave the paint and stretch the floor. Dirk and other predecessors are the pioneer players in the stretch the floor movement. Now, we see the 3 best SFs in the game play the 4 at times. There are some good coaches out there. The Lakers, C's, and Knicks are in a slump, which is good because other markets can get coverage more often, but the NBA doesn't flex schedules for national games. So many great players are leaving and I can tell my kids I watched the Big Fundamental or Steve Nash. Too many people focus on factions, rigging, refs, and the lotto. Teams consisting of three big time players that are "friends" seems to anger a lot of people as well.

thats another thing I hate. we are now in the era of collusion era buddy ball. I blame the 2007-2008 Celtics, they created this ****-show domino effect when they built that juggernaut. everyone played catch up to them and here we are, with three of the four best players from the greatest draft since 1996 all on the same team.

As a fan I'd sacrifice USA Olympic dominance if it meant NBA players stopped being best friends and colluding on the side.

Ese Vato Loco
03-10-2014, 02:21 PM
someones missing...need a t-mac style superstar. too many superstars turning into old men.

Heediot
03-10-2014, 02:24 PM
thats another thing I hate. we are now in the era of collusion era buddy ball. I blame the 2007-2008 Celtics, they created this ****-show domino effect when they built that juggernaut. everyone played catch up to them and here we are, with three of the four best players from the greatest draft since 1996 all on the same team.

As a fan I'd sacrifice USA Olympic dominance if it meant NBA players stopped being best friends and colluding on the side.

Can't blame the Celtics, they didn't do it under the table Miami style. It was good management and the big 3 was hyped up (as typical) by the media.

Your initial post in this thread was gold though and I agree with probably the whole of it.

DreamShaker
03-10-2014, 02:26 PM
As people, we tend to pine for the days of yesteryear, even if they arent that far removed. I really enjoy the product now. There are things I miss, but it's still very fun.

lol, please
03-10-2014, 02:27 PM
People are constantly so caught up in comparing current greats to the past. There is constant is so and so as good as Jordan etc. . . Basketball's best days were in the late 80's and early 90's. . . .

Has it gotten to the point where people don't recogonize the talent right now? Durant and LeBron are playing at as high a level as it gets.

Dirk, Garnett, Carter, Pierce, Duncan, Kobe, Nash*, Allen, Iverson, T-Mac are all ending or have ended careers that will be remembered forever.

Anthony Davis is going to be special.

Blake Griffin and Kevin Love are putting up eye popping numbers. The NBA as a whole is going off but in general I see so much negative feedback.

Are you satisfied with the current league and it's talent base?

I think it's the exact opposite. People need to stop slobbing over the present and take a moment to reflect on the past greats which we may never see again on a daily basis.

beyourself
03-10-2014, 02:30 PM
Ehhhh. I don't know. I definitely enjoy watching LeBron and Durant, but as far as an overall talented league?

Hell no. Just absolutely not.

The Spurs are built around players in their late 30s and have the NBA's best record.

Team basketball and fundamentals have eroded a little too much.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 02:37 PM
Yeah we're spoiled. But that's just how it is. I think when you look back in 10 years, you will see how special Lebron-KD matchup was. Its not a modern day Lakers-Celtics with Magic and Bird, but definitely special.

desertlakeshow
03-10-2014, 02:52 PM
The talent level is fine, but there are too many teams to hold the talent that is there. We get watered down basketball, contraction would bring up the competition.

If you want parity and quality, contraction is the answer. If you want quantity and parity, you get crap and lots of it.

albertajaysfan
03-10-2014, 02:55 PM
Ehhhh. I don't know. I definitely enjoy watching LeBron and Durant, but as far as an overall talented league?

Hell no. Just absolutely not.

The Spurs are built around players in their late 30s and have the NBA's best record.

Team basketball and fundamentals have eroded a little too much.

Funny how you complain about the team oriented basketball right after complaining about the Spurs leading the league who play the best brand of basketball in the NBA at this time.

The Spurs are built brilliantly. Their top 8 rotation players - Parker, Duncan, Ginoibli, Leonard, Bellineli, Green, Diaw and Splitter. The seasoned vets who may all be Hall of Famers one day supported by some late 20 early 30 journeymen and two young athletic kids (Green and Leonard).

I also find it interesting how people talk about recognizing Greats of the past. Yet we only do it with rose coloured glasses.

Big name players forcing their way to larger markets sure isn't anything new. Wilt Chamberlain anyone? The crazy trades the Celtics used to get away with?

Lack of team oriented basketball? Thank you MJ for making that cool. Think about all the players that followed in his foot steps of hero ball.

My point is we almost always view the past with rose coloured glasses because being that person who only points out the negatives from the past gets annoying. You would probably even eventually annoy yourself. The present however is open season because we can change it.

Sure some teams play selfish basketball but the interesting part is that currently those teams generally suck.

I will use the team I cheer for as an example.
Pre-Rudy Gay trade we are near the bottom of the league in assists (and were possibly the worst NBA basketball I have ever watched) record of 6-12.
Post trade we have risen up to 3rd in the East going 29-14 playing hustle defence and team oriented offence. This current group has become the most exciting Raptors team that I have ever watched. Vince era teams were exciting only because of Vince.

Another example is the current two time defending Champs. When Lebron goes all ISO ball they generally have a much harder time than when they play as a team. When Westbrook forgets about his teammates the Thunder of fairly average. Ask Kyrie Irving how ISO ball has been working out in Cleveland. I could go on.

The one part I will agree with is the lack of guys with a back to the basket game. That I do miss but only the ones who did it in the flow of the offence. The ones that knew when to kick it out. Watching a bad C try and do it could be used as some form of torture.

Overall though I enjoy today's NBA just as much if not more than when I first started watching. I think that has more to do with my understanding of the game being greater mind you. As a frame of reference I started watching in the early 90's. Favourite player at the time Hakeem.

Heatcheck
03-10-2014, 02:56 PM
Ehhhh. I don't know. I definitely enjoy watching LeBron and Durant, but as far as an overall talented league?

Hell no. Just absolutely not.

The Spurs are built around players in their late 30s and have the NBA's best record.

Team basketball and fundamentals have eroded a little too much.

Jordan's fault. Indirectly of course.

D-Leethal
03-10-2014, 02:58 PM
I agree with pretty much everything Bruno has wrote in this thread. Nobody complains about the talent level. We complain about the gameplay.

ghettosean
03-10-2014, 03:11 PM
Every generation has tremendous talent. The quality and integrity of the actual games is cringe-worthy at times and the league has rightfully earned the reputation of a sissified sport where toughness is all but eliminated.




i'm more than satisfied with the talent. the talent is great.

my problem is with the way the game is being played. not being able to put a hand on the offensive player and the lack of legitimate back to the basket post-players is changing the way the game is played. i don't like the change int he game, thats my preference.

i don't like turning on the Lakers and seeing scrubs and role players blow up for huge nights, or go on 3-4 game streaks where they look like all-stars. i don't like how we have a league where a team with the right system can cycle scrubs who can take over games (like we've seen Farmar, Marshall, Young, Meeks and Johnson do this season). dantoni era Lakers would have gotten absolutely CRUSHED twenty years ago, as they should be every night. they wouldn't be upsetting Portland and OKC. t think its too easy to score in todays league and I think its created a league where guards are unguardable. getting into the paint is way too easy for guards. this league has been taken over by PGs for this reason, you can't guard them now.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Both posts pretty much describe how I feel in a nutshell!

beyourself
03-10-2014, 03:13 PM
Jordan's fault. Indirectly of course.

Which is a shame because Jordan played great defense, could explode through picks. Was a great passer. Rarely turned the ball over.

Jordan played within the flow of the offense. The man shot 50% from the field for his career. He didn't play hero ball starting around 88 or 89. I think Kobe and Iverson are more responsible for hero ball since they both took shots outside of the flow of the offense often.

Da Knicks
03-10-2014, 04:01 PM
i'm more than satisfied with the talent. the talent is great.

my problem is with the way the game is being played. not being able to put a hand on the offensive player and the lack of legitimate back to the basket post-players is changing the way the game is played. i don't like the change int he game, thats my preference.

i don't like turning on the Lakers and seeing scrubs and role players blow up for huge nights, or go on 3-4 game streaks where they look like all-stars. i don't like how we have a league where a team with the right system can cycle scrubs who can take over games (like we've seen Farmar, Marshall, Young, Meeks and Johnson do this season). dantoni era Lakers would have gotten absolutely CRUSHED twenty years ago, as they should be every night. they wouldn't be upsetting Portland and OKC. t think its too easy to score in todays league and I think its created a league where guards are unguardable. getting into the paint is way too easy for guards. this league has been taken over by PGs for this reason, you can't guard them now.

This here is my problem with the league. Skilled players are overlooked because of how the game is played. If you are fast and can make a layup you are elite nowadays. Espn also makes the league bad by them choosing who is good and who isn't.

Goose17
03-10-2014, 04:05 PM
People seem to be getting confused, talking about not liking the lack of post players etc. You are confusing your preference with fact. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it worse.

A true basketball fan would appreciate the good points, you think the 70s, 80s and 90s didn't have flaws?

SMH

Goose17
03-10-2014, 04:08 PM
"I don't like the change in the game" - great, but nobody cares. You're so stuck in the past that you're taking for granted what's going on right now. Move on. Let it go. It's over. End of.


Appreciate what we've got now, which is an incredibly talented league that is a lot of fun to watch. And team ball still very much exists as do the fundamentals. Come on now...

ThuglifeJ
03-10-2014, 04:12 PM
2000s was great...90s and 80s were even a little greater.. today sucks!

Just my opinion.. and that of many

Heediot
03-10-2014, 04:16 PM
"I don't like the change in the game" - great, but nobody cares. You're so stuck in the past that you're taking for granted what's going on right now. Move on. Let it go. It's over. End of.


Appreciate what we've got now, which is an incredibly talented league that is a lot of fun to watch. And team ball still very much exists as do the fundamentals. Come on now...

At least make the rules more balanced for all positions. Less teams would also make it a better league, talent is watered down IMO.

Goose17
03-10-2014, 04:19 PM
2000s was great...90s and 80s were even a little greater.. today sucks!

Just my opinion.. and that of many

Why does today suck compared to 2000s, 90s and 80s? Be specific.

Team ball is more common now than it was in the 90s.
The fundamentals are there just as much as they have been since the turn of the millennium.

Let me guess, the league is "soft" now due to the hand checking rule right? SMH



Again, you people are failing to see the point of this thread, what you think doesn't matter. It's completely irrelevant how you feel about todays NBA compared to any other era, what matters is, does your love for previous era's prevent you from fully appreciating what this era has to offer? To me, it seems like the answer is yes.

Rose tinted glasses and people incapable of letting go... it's a shame, you won't realise what you've missed until it's all passed you by.

Shammyguy3
03-10-2014, 04:22 PM
At least make the rules more balanced for all positions. Less teams would also make it a better league, talent is watered down IMO.

Wrong. The talent is not watered down, it's arguably as good as it's ever been. The talent is distributed at a greater amount than before. That's what you meant to say.

Mr_Jones
03-10-2014, 04:25 PM
Funny how you complain about the team oriented basketball right after complaining about the Spurs leading the league who play the best brand of basketball in the NBA at this time.

The Spurs are built brilliantly. Their top 8 rotation players - Parker, Duncan, Ginoibli, Leonard, Bellineli, Green, Diaw and Splitter. The seasoned vets who may all be Hall of Famers one day supported by some late 20 early 30 journeymen and two young athletic kids (Green and Leonard).

I also find it interesting how people talk about recognizing Greats of the past. Yet we only do it with rose coloured glasses.

Big name players forcing their way to larger markets sure isn't anything new. Wilt Chamberlain anyone? The crazy trades the Celtics used to get away with?

Lack of team oriented basketball? Thank you MJ for making that cool. Think about all the players that followed in his foot steps of hero ball.

My point is we almost always view the past with rose coloured glasses because being that person who only points out the negatives from the past gets annoying. You would probably even eventually annoy yourself. The present however is open season because we can change it.

Sure some teams play selfish basketball but the interesting part is that currently those teams generally suck.

I will use the team I cheer for as an example.
Pre-Rudy Gay trade we are near the bottom of the league in assists (and were possibly the worst NBA basketball I have ever watched) record of 6-12.
Post trade we have risen up to 3rd in the East going 29-14 playing hustle defence and team oriented offence. This current group has become the most exciting Raptors team that I have ever watched. Vince era teams were exciting only because of Vince.

Another example is the current two time defending Champs. When Lebron goes all ISO ball they generally have a much harder time than when they play as a team. When Westbrook forgets about his teammates the Thunder of fairly average. Ask Kyrie Irving how ISO ball has been working out in Cleveland. I could go on.

The one part I will agree with is the lack of guys with a back to the basket game. That I do miss but only the ones who did it in the flow of the offence. The ones that knew when to kick it out. Watching a bad C try and do it could be used as some form of torture.

Overall though I enjoy today's NBA just as much if not more than when I first started watching. I think that has more to do with my understanding of the game being greater mind you. As a frame of reference I started watching in the early 90's. Favourite player at the time Hakeem.

I do blame MJ as well as Dr J. I'd sacrifice Kobe if it meant that we had league-wide basketball intelligence and team-oriented basketball. I love what Kobe and Mike showed as far as a true dedication and work-ethic, but their brand of basketball is an often mimicked (incorrectly at that) style.

I'm seeing kids try to emulate these guys by taking tough jump shots and they think it's cool. The difference between them and the kids is that mike and Kobe could make these shots. It's all about flash and no true substance.

Players like Nash and Stockton are my favorites. I still enjoy players like Diaw, Duncan, Hakeem, and even guys like Hinrich and Patrick Beverley. The league, while talented, is not focused on the traits that basketball was meant to be primarily about. Fundamentals are rare to see and that should be a concern. I'm seeing kids flop in pick up games.. Dead serious.

This is not a good thing.

Yankeefan213
03-10-2014, 04:25 PM
The biggest thing being taken for granted is the fact that LeBron James is one of the best athletes ever. So many people don't realize how much of a freak this guy actually is. I am by no means a LeBron fan, but he's ridiculous and there is no denying it.

Heediot
03-10-2014, 04:27 PM
Wrong. The talent is not watered down, it's arguably as good as it's ever been. The talent is distributed at a greater amount than before. That's what you meant to say.

Describe it how you will, I just want less teams but I know that ain't happening.

Mr_Jones
03-10-2014, 04:29 PM
"I don't like the change in the game" - great, but nobody cares. You're so stuck in the past that you're taking for granted what's going on right now. Move on. Let it go. It's over. End of.


Appreciate what we've got now, which is an incredibly talented league that is a lot of fun to watch. And team ball still very much exists as do the fundamentals. Come on now...

Lol. "I DONT LIKE YOUR OPINION SO IM GONNA BRING UP HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT AND CALL IT FACT."

Heediot
03-10-2014, 04:31 PM
When your best player is hated and vilified by a lot of people there will be biases. When your top 3 players are called out for flopping their will be more subconscious biases. When the refs call ticky tack fouls there will be biases. Biases will always exist.

KnicksorBust
03-10-2014, 04:33 PM
Did anyone think there is a reason why there are significantly fewer post-up players? Take a player like Demarcus Cousins. He's arguably one of the best low-post players in the game. He shoots 42% on post-ups. When you have guys like LeBron-Durant-Harden-Curry who can draw fouls, set-up teammates, and hit 3's... suddenly the back to the basket game doesn't seem nearly as deadly.

c.c.
03-10-2014, 04:38 PM
Great post :clap:

Goose17
03-10-2014, 04:47 PM
Lol. "I DONT LIKE YOUR OPINION SO IM GONNA BRING UP HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT AND CALL IT FACT."

Except that's not what I did. And if you don't understand my post it would be better for you to just not reply, save yourself from looking foolish.

CarltonXanBanks
03-10-2014, 04:49 PM
i know stats are basically somewhat the same compared to back then, but when the nba prohibited zone defense in the early 2000s it changed the game. maybe it turned some people who love and watched the game off

Shammyguy3
03-10-2014, 04:57 PM
You mean allowed as opposed to prohibited i'm assuming

D-Leethal
03-10-2014, 05:08 PM
Did anyone think there is a reason why there are significantly fewer post-up players? Take a player like Demarcus Cousins. He's arguably one of the best low-post players in the game. He shoots 42% on post-ups. When you have guys like LeBron-Durant-Harden-Curry who can draw fouls, set-up teammates, and hit 3's... suddenly the back to the basket game doesn't seem nearly as deadly.

Thats the most efficient way to play because the rules encourage you to play that way. There is pretty much 0 deterrent to the dribble drive game anymore - no hand checking, no hard fouls, no benefit-of-the-doubt given to the defender unless his name is Roy Hibbert. Like Bruno said, teams want shooters at the big man spots to pave the way for attacking guards to live in the paint. All the rules have changed to benefit those types of "3 and layup only" players and eliminate the mid range guys, the post up guys, the mid post guys. Kobe had a pretty good explanation/quote on this dilemma a few weeks ago on this forum.

I don't think its a coincidence that the demise of the post up C pretty much directly coincided with the influx of speedy combo point guards.

D-Leethal
03-10-2014, 05:09 PM
If you could hand check, if you could give the occasional hard foul without fines/flagrants/ejections, if you could pack the paint, than guys would be forced to operate in the mid range, in the post. Its an inefficient way to play in today's league but thats a product of the rule changes over the years and the way the league has encouraged players to play.

ghettosean
03-10-2014, 05:12 PM
Why do people have to say things like others are stuck in the past and all this other nonsense.... There are so many fans young and old who just don't like the way the game is played today. I mean we have young kids today making an internet fad called Lebroning pointing out how soft the game is today. It's a soft league and we all know it... Because the league is soft it causes inflated stats that people wouldn't get away with (YES I'M GOING TO SAY IT) in the past! A few posters have made remarks that you can't even put your hand on a guard these days without it being a foul which is 100% true. It's not the players really it's the game the only reason people ***** about players is because the game is so soft it's elevating players on the all time list where they would not be had they played in a more physical league. The game is just too soft now a days and that's unfortunately why there is constant comparisons between today's players and past players it's not about talent level it's about how the game is played today.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-10-2014, 05:21 PM
This thing happens every generation. Once these guys retire, people will always go back and say that this generation of players is better than the one that's coming up. Are they right? Who knows, but this has and always will happen.

Goose17
03-10-2014, 05:34 PM
Good to see most of you are still missing the point of the thread.

Jesus christ this forum is full of some of the most dense sports fans I have ever encountered.

KnicksorBust
03-10-2014, 05:44 PM
This thing happens every generation. Once these guys retire, people will always go back and say that this generation of players is better than the one that's coming up. Are they right? Who knows, but this has and always will happen.

In fairness, they are saying the style of play has changed for the worse not the talent. If anything, the common belief is that the older generation of players wouldn't be able to play in the modern era not the way you are stating.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 07:22 PM
People complain about softness... but do you really want to watch hand checking and slow tempo games? I don't mind them, but the majority will hate it. So be careful what you wish for.

RaiderLakersA's
03-10-2014, 07:24 PM
The basketball that we have now is atrocious. I feel truly sorry for the younger guys who have this period of the NBA as their only point of reference. I really hope that it gets better.

TorontoHuskies
03-10-2014, 10:16 PM
People are constantly so caught up in comparing current greats to the past. There is constant is so and so as good as Jordan etc. . . Basketball's best days were in the late 80's and early 90's. . . .

Has it gotten to the point where people don't recogonize the talent right now? Durant and LeBron are playing at as high a level as it gets.

Dirk, Garnett, Carter, Pierce, Duncan, Kobe, Nash*, Allen, Iverson, T-Mac are all ending or have ended careers that will be remembered forever.

Anthony Davis is going to be special.

Blake Griffin and Kevin Love are putting up eye popping numbers. The NBA as a whole is going off but in general I see so much negative feedback.

Are you satisfied with the current league and it's talent base?

Talent's fine although toughness has disappeared from most teams (except maybe the Raptors and Pacers). The real reason the league has gotten so much worse is because zone defense was brought back. That entire Era you referred to didn't have it which made the game much more open and personal. I honestly don't think Jordan would have his status today if the zone was there when he played.

beyourself
03-10-2014, 10:30 PM
People complain about softness... but do you really want to watch hand checking and slow tempo games? I don't mind them, but the majority will hate it. So be careful what you wish for.

I'd rather see a more defensive league and slower tempo. It's more interesting and you would really appreciate great offense instead of just it being typical.

NYJ - NYY
03-10-2014, 11:05 PM
This is a great point, and it's one I wish more fans would recognize. The NBA is in a transition period between the end of one of the greatest influxes of talent in league history and the next great era of NBA players, but all anybody wants to do is ***** about how different the game is or talk about how it's not as talented. Meanwhile, you have two players putting up ridiculous, historically relevant numbers (Durant, Lebron) while battling for the MVP, you've got some insanely talented players reaching their stride (Curry, Love, Griffin, Harden, George, Cousins), some obviously talented young players about to break out in a big way (Davis, Drummond) and great all-time veterans still playing at a high level (Dirk, Garnett, Wade).

Is this the most talented period in the history of the league? Probably not. But let's not pretend like the league is completely devoid of talent, either. And things will be even sweeter once this next draft class realizes its potential at the NBA level. If fans would just take five minutes to stop living in the past and start realizing the present, we'd have a lot more appreciation for the greatness of this current era of NBA athletes.

It's getting pretty damn close to being the most talented period in league history. Legacy aside, Durant and Bron are playing as good as any other twosome in league history. CP3 is getting ignored with the Bron-Durant MVP battle, but he's putting up all-time great PG numbers. Davis, Cousins, Love, and Blake are all putting up equal or better seasons than all-time great bigs did at their age.

Along with the other guys you mentioned, you have to take into account the extreme depth of some positions like PG and PF or the emergence of some the better defensive C"s we've seen in a long time (imo) with guys like Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Noah, and Tyson Chandler.

No mention of melo lol cmonnnnnn

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 03:54 AM
The basketball that we have now is atrocious. I feel truly sorry for the younger guys who have this period of the NBA as their only point of reference. I really hope that it gets better.

+1

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 04:16 AM
"I don't like the change in the game" - great, but nobody cares. You're so stuck in the past that you're taking for granted what's going on right now. Move on. Let it go. It's over. End of.


Appreciate what we've got now, which is an incredibly talented league that is a lot of fun to watch. And team ball still very much exists as do the fundamentals. Come on now...

Lol. "I DONT LIKE YOUR OPINION SO IM GONNA BRING UP HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT AND CALL IT FACT."

+1

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 04:48 AM
2000s was great...90s and 80s were even a little greater.. today sucks!

Just my opinion.. and that of many

Why does today suck compared to 2000s, 90s and 80s? Be specific.

Team ball is more common now than it was in the 90s.
The fundamentals are there just as much as they have been since the turn of the millennium.

Let me guess, the league is "soft" now due to the hand checking rule right? SMH



Again, you people are failing to see the point of this thread, what you think doesn't matter. It's completely irrelevant how you feel about todays NBA compared to any other era, what matters is, does your love for previous era's prevent you from fully appreciating what this era has to offer? To me, it seems like the answer is yes.

Rose tinted glasses and people incapable of letting go... it's a shame, you won't realise what you've missed until it's all passed you by.

What we think doesn't matter, but what you do does?

And no, I was fully capable of letting go of the MJ era, and my favorite players leaving prime/ retiring.. but there's nothing that's replaced that like usual in sports.

This is fully opinion based anyways..why argue


Only reason you are pushing this so hard is because the Warriors are good again and you don't like everyone's lack of interest in this soft, lack of good character, league.

I don't need to get specific on why I find the league boring nowadays..its my opinion and that of many. I still watch, but I'm waiting and have been for the past few years for it to get special again..

Flops suck, touch fouls suck, majority players personalities suck, all star weekend sucks now, super teams suck, east 3rd seed would be a 10 seed in west, injuries - Kobe, Rose, etc.

We don't need to set standards low...it never used to be this way

sammyvine
03-11-2014, 06:08 AM
There is a clear lack of top superstars though

At this moment in time only Durant and Lebron are top superstars imo. I don't consider CP3, Harden, Howard, Blake on the level of the likes of Garnett, Iversen, Kidd, Nash, Kobe, Shaq basically the superstars of the early 2000's.

Shammyguy3
03-11-2014, 11:07 AM
If you don't think Chris Paul is on the level of Iverson or Nash then i disagree completely. At any given moment in time, how many potentially top-20 players of all time are in the league? 3? At most 4?

Right now, Lebron/Durant after they retire will both be arguably top-20. Prior to this generation, you had Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan as those guys and maybe Garnett pending who you ask. Sure, that's 4 players to 2. But there is a transition period right now for a lot of these guys: Harden, Curry, Griffin, Love, Davis, and so forth. In 5 years, we may think two more of those guys after being in their primes for multiple years could join that all-time discussion.

Heediot
03-11-2014, 12:31 PM
If you don't think Chris Paul is on the level of Iverson or Nash then i disagree completely. At any given moment in time, how many potentially top-20 players of all time are in the league? 3? At most 4?

Right now, Lebron/Durant after they retire will both be arguably top-20. Prior to this generation, you had Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan as those guys and maybe Garnett pending who you ask. Sure, that's 4 players to 2. But there is a transition period right now for a lot of these guys: Harden, Curry, Griffin, Love, Davis, and so forth. In 5 years, we may think two more of those guys after being in their primes for multiple years could join that all-time discussion.

MJ's generation was better at the top. MJ, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Admiral, Stockton, Drexler, Ewing, Young Shaq,

Duncan's Generation is also better at the top. Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, KG, Dirk, Nash, Iverson (iffy)

Goose17
03-11-2014, 04:23 PM
Only reason you are pushing this so hard is because the Warriors are good again and you don't like everyone's lack of interest in this soft, lack of good character, league.


LOL that has nothing to do with it, we were good back in the day, you might have heard of a few guys called Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullin? You might remember we won a chip in 75? 56? I could go for any era other than the late nineties - late 00's if I wanted to be biased to the Warriors, but I don't this has nothing to do with the Dubs, or any team. You're STILL failing to see the point of the thread, despite quoting the post that explains it to you.




I don't need to get specific on why I find the league boring nowadays..its my opinion and that of many. I still watch, but I'm waiting and have been for the past few years for it to get special again..


LOL, what a cop out, you don't need to get specific? It's not that you don't need to, it's that you CAN'T, you're just a sheep, so many people feel it's "cool" to hate on stuff now, so you're joining in and playing along "yeah the leagues soft blah blah blah". It's pathetic.




Flops suck, touch fouls suck, majority players personalities suck, all star weekend sucks now, super teams suck, east 3rd seed would be a 10 seed in west, injuries - Kobe, Rose, etc.


Personalities suck? WTH LMFAO. What are you even talking about? There's just as much a variety of personalities as there was then. Flops suck? Sure. Fouls suck? Not at all, considering this is isn't a collision sport, fouls are how they should be. All star weekend sucks in comparison, but again you're missing the point. And there has been super teams for as long as there has been a league, Jordan - Pippen - Rodman, ever heard of them? People act like it's a new thing, the only thing "new" about it is the players are now taking more control in playing where they want to and with who they want to, super teams have always existed; 84-85 Lakers, 95-96 Sonics, 03-04 Lakers, 07-08 Celtics, the list goes on.



Let me say this one more time, read the following carefully;


What you think doesn't matter. It's completely irrelevant how you feel about todays NBA compared to any other era, what matters is, does your love for previous era's prevent you from fully appreciating what this era has to offer? To me, it seems like the answer is yes.


That is what this thread is about, forget about whether it's as good as the 90s, 80s, 70s etc that's ENTIRELY down to preference, somebody who loves the fast paced game with elite shooters and explosive guards might think this is the best era of basketball America has seen, someone might think it's the worst, IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is this; Does your bias/preference prevent you from being able to appreciate what this league has to offer right now?

You said it yourself, you are waiting for the "magic" to "return", this is the problem. STOP WAITING. There was no magic, you may have enjoyed it more but that doesn't make it some mystical, romantic era of sport. It's just what you preferred, and that era will never occur again. So **** it. It's over. Done. Finished. Let it go and start appreciating what we have right now, stop comparing, people will ALWAYS prefer the past, 20 years from now guys will be arguing about how the league sucks compared to the era of "Lebron's Miami" and how it's changed for the worse. People need to take of the rose tinted specs, and appreciate the glorious sights to be had all around them now.

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 05:14 PM
There is a clear lack of top superstars though

At this moment in time only Durant and Lebron are top superstars imo. I don't consider CP3, Harden, Howard, Blake on the level of the likes of Garnett, Iversen, Kidd, Nash, Kobe, Shaq basically the superstars of the early 2000's.

Yup. Those you mentioned were unbelievable talents

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 05:23 PM
If you don't think Chris Paul is on the level of Iverson or Nash then i disagree completely. At any given moment in time, how many potentially top-20 players of all time are in the league? 3? At most 4?

Right now, Lebron/Durant after they retire will both be arguably top-20. Prior to this generation, you had Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan as those guys and maybe Garnett pending who you ask. Sure, that's 4 players to 2. But there is a transition period right now for a lot of these guys: Harden, Curry, Griffin, Love, Davis, and so forth. In 5 years, we may think two more of those guys after being in their primes for multiple years could join that all-time discussion.

MJ's generation was better at the top. MJ, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Admiral, Stockton, Drexler, Ewing, Young Shaq,

Duncan's Generation is also better at the top. Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, KG, Dirk, Nash, Iverson (iffy)

Not to mention peaks of Dirk, Tmac, Vinsanity, Ray were once in a lifetime talents. Best 3 pt shooter, best 7 ft/international player who could shoot, top 10 stat season ever tmac, best dunker(when it was a thing) ever VC. Add pierce, yao ming, Big Ben, Sheed, Jermaine, Weber, wizards MJ and that league is stacked. Then you have a bunch of paul Georges everywhere who are sidekicks to the superstars (Marion, Houston, Francis , etc).

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 05:34 PM
So basically since the 80s was an A+, the 90s was an A+, and the early 2000s was an A, we should ignore that and celebrate our C+ NBA product we have today since its still a product?

Sorry I won't lower my standards..I'll keep my opinion of the league as of today until it proves itself again and feels like an A again.. shouldn't the league be getting better over time? Why should we celebrate its gotten worse. I still watch, enjoy some aspects but I'm not gonna be fully satisfied with this currently weak league.

Goose17
03-11-2014, 05:39 PM
So basically since the 80s was an A+, the 90s was an A+, and the early 2000s was an A, we should ignore that and celebrate our C+ NBA product we have today since its still a product?


C+ LOL

If the early 00's were an A, right now is certainly an A. But again, none of this matters. The comparisons are irrelevant.

Until people understand what the point of this thread is, they shouldn't even post.

beyourself
03-11-2014, 07:44 PM
I have no idea how anyone can say the personalities of today match up to the older guys. Social media and political correctness has hurt personality.

Remember when Shaq came out in that last all star game and just acted all goofy and hilarious with that mask. Young guys aren't doing anything these days. It's all about let me update my status play this game and get back to Call of Duty.

Da Knicks
03-11-2014, 08:05 PM
Nba guards = nfl qbs, the defense is at the mercy of the refs and espn. They may put better numbers because of how the game is reffed but in the end you now the previous players would of tore up the sissy leagues of today. No I don't think we take this flopping and players with very little skill for granted. Just happy there is a league pass so Iam not forced to watch the crap I don't want to watch!

NBA_Starter
03-11-2014, 10:21 PM
If you are talking about in the West then they are but the East is a disaster.

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 11:21 PM
Nba guards = nfl qbs, the defense is at the mercy of the refs and espn. They may put better numbers because of how the game is reffed but in the end you now the previous players would of tore up the sissy leagues of today. No I don't think we take this flopping and players with very little skill for granted. Just happy there is a league pass so Iam not forced to watch the crap I don't want to watch!

+1

ThuglifeJ
03-11-2014, 11:22 PM
If you are talking about in the West then they are but the East is a disaster.

The 3rd seed in the east would be a 10th seed in West..... seriously you gotta love the league today..

Jamiecballer
03-11-2014, 11:38 PM
Sammyvine should be prohibited from replying to Shammyguy and vice versa. Ain't nobody got time for that.

cubbie92
03-12-2014, 12:55 AM
Until people understand what the point of this thread is, they shouldn't even post.

Am I missing something here? You didn't even create this thread, unless Ebbs is your alternate account or you can read his mind.


Are you satisfied with the current league and it's talent base?

This was the question asked at the beginning of the thread, and for the most part everyone has answered yes or no accordingly. Maybe you're the one who should exit this thread since you seem to be taking all of this way too personally.