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ManRam
03-09-2014, 06:45 PM
I know it's a thread that pops up a lot, whatever. I keep hearing about the importance of not only PGs, but a certain "true" or "pass-first" PG. Without trying to skew things too much, I'll just say that I think that position's importance has long been overrated.

And I'm aware that defining positions is becoming harder and harder to do, something I argue all the time. Our traditional definitions of some of these positions don't quite work any more. But ignore that, I guess.


So, generally speaking, what position do you feel is most important? PG? SG? SF? PF? C? I know there are a lot of variables, but let's say you're building a team from scratch and have a choice of 5 equally talented/aged/whatever players to pick first, but each play a different position. Which one are you taking to build around?

lakerfan85
03-09-2014, 06:53 PM
Shooting guard or small forward..

NoahH
03-09-2014, 06:58 PM
PG or C

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2014, 06:58 PM
I voted "PG", but what I mean when I vote "PG" is "distributor".


Jordan and LeBron (and to a lesser extent Kobe), have all proved you don't need to be a 'point guard' to be a Championship distributor.

In the case of the Bulls, Pippen and Jordan shared the ball-handling duties. LBJ and Wade handle it in Miami. In LAL with Kobe/Shaq and Kobe/Gasol, a lot of ball movement, Kobe bringing the ball up and Shaq and Gasol making plays from the post. These teams didn't have "point guards" in the traditional sense, but they had solid distribution.


Of course, you also need great defense to win. A great defensive center can help with that, but if you have good team defense, you can make up for the lack of a defensive center (the second three-peat Bulls roster, and the current heat are a great example of that).


If you have an amazing PG like CP3 and a great defensive center, you are off to a great start, but even CP3 had Chandler to start with, and that went nowhere. You need depth as well. So many different parts of the game. A great C is harder to come by, so I'd build around that, but your team is no winning without a great distributor.

stawka
03-09-2014, 06:59 PM
SG or SF I would say. SG's like Kobe or Wade, or SF's like LeBron or T-Mac essentially carry the ball so much that they don't really need a great PG alongside them

Baller1
03-09-2014, 07:01 PM
I put PF, but I don't think there is a most important position in the NBA. We've seen dominant big guys win, we've seen dominant wings win, we've seen combo guards win... There's no one position more important than the other. A great player is a great player, no matter what position he plays.

DR_1
03-09-2014, 07:02 PM
Basically what JasonJohnHorn said.

Hawkeye15
03-09-2014, 07:02 PM
it changes from time to time, depending on the makefup of the league imo.

jaydubb
03-09-2014, 07:08 PM
it changes from time to time, depending on the makefup of the league imo.

:nod: I was about to say this as well

ManRam
03-09-2014, 07:16 PM
Yeah...I don't think there's an obvious answer honestly, and probably won't vote.

I just know that I disagree wholeheartedly with JJH. Literally the only example of a "distributing PG" that he lists is Chris Paul. And for good reason. Because I can't remember the last time a team won with a "distributing PG" as their best player. Or even second best.

You just don't need that. Give me a TEAM that moves the ball as a TEAM with multiple guys who can create over a team that relies on one PG to do the "distributing".


If I had to pick I'd say a wing...be it a 2 or a 3.

Shlumpledink
03-09-2014, 07:19 PM
Maybe my opinion is dated, but I say a big man is still the most important. I selected center, but I could see how the league is changing to a more perimeter oriented league, especially when you look at the talented wing players that are in the draft in the next 1-3 years.

Especially with how officiating has been changing. I can see more of an emphasis being put on point guards

jerellh528
03-09-2014, 07:20 PM
Teams who have won rings lately had bosh,dirk, gasol,kg, Duncan.

beyourself
03-09-2014, 07:23 PM
Any position besides the point guard.

If you build around a star 2-5 you can win in the NBA.

flea
03-09-2014, 07:25 PM
I still want a big, PF or C, if all else is equal. Getting big men that excel in a variety of ways are always more rare than wings or guards that do. A true point guard that can pass, shoot, and penetrate at an above average level is valuable and rare too - but you can win without one. Very few truly good teams don't have at least one really good big man.

Heediot
03-09-2014, 07:29 PM
Offense could be any position as long as you can create your own offense at a high clip.

Defense C and PF a close second.

Nod goes to C overall.

*Superman*
03-09-2014, 07:30 PM
SG or SF I would say. SG's like Kobe or Wade, or SF's like LeBron or T-Mac essentially carry the ball so much that they don't really need a great PG alongside them

This. It probably was Center, but it's moved to a guard league now. There's a reason why LeBron, KD, Kobe, McGrady, Wade, heck even Harden now can all carry a team more than any PG, PF or C.

Kaner
03-09-2014, 07:31 PM
Agree with the OP about PG being overrated. I mean Chris Paul is pretty much the perfect pg, as good at the position as anyone ever. Yet his teams have never gotten past the conference semis. The only pg that won a championship as the best player was Magic who had Kareem, Worthy and was as unprototypical as possible to play the position.

To me most important player for a championship is either elite scoring wing or 2 way big-man with pg only needing to be a role-player for teams if they have one of the above

ManRam
03-09-2014, 07:41 PM
Agree with the OP about PG being overrated. I mean Chris Paul is pretty much the perfect pg, as good at the position as anyone ever. Yet his teams have never gotten past the conference semis. The only pg that won a championship as the best player was Magic who had Kareem, Worthy and was as unprototypical as possible to play the position.

To me most important player for a championship is either elite scoring wing or 2 way big-man with pg only needing to be a role-player for teams if they have one of the above

I agree.

However, I think of Paul kinda as the exception. I can't blame him for a lack of team success, especially in NO. He got more out of those teams that most anyone else could have. Last year was really the first time I think his team clearly underachieved. This is a big year. I don't think his style of play really has ever been something to hold them back. Maybe every once in a while he should shoot a little more, but still.

beyourself
03-09-2014, 07:46 PM
Yeah...I don't think there's an obvious answer honestly, and probably won't vote.

I just know that I disagree wholeheartedly with JJH. Literally the only example of a "distributing PG" that he lists is Chris Paul. And for good reason. Because I can't remember the last time a team won with a "distributing PG" as their best player. Or even second best.

You just don't need that. Give me a TEAM that moves the ball as a TEAM with multiple guys who can create over a team that relies on one PG to do the "distributing".


If I had to pick I'd say a wing...be it a 2 or a 3.

You don't need a great PG period. It's really ridiculous how overrated the position is. You don't need a PG who just hogs all the ball handling duties and you rely on him to create open looks for everybody. Why would you need that when team ball movement is faster than elite PG movement.

But you don't need a scoring PG either. Believe me a guy who dribbles, dribbles, dribbles, dribbles and then dribbles more before taking a billion shots isn't what you need either.

Anything more than a Tony Parker is a waste IMO.

Monta is beast
03-09-2014, 07:47 PM
Center and it's not even close. Every team has a good point guard, there everywhere. Centers have and will always be the most important players.

Chronz
03-09-2014, 08:05 PM
Whatever position has the best player in the league occupying it

JPS
03-09-2014, 08:30 PM
Center and it's not even close. Every team has a good point guard, there everywhere. Centers have and will always be the most important players.

This

Alayla
03-09-2014, 08:58 PM
Center

ChiSox219
03-09-2014, 09:00 PM
On average a great center is going to outproduce an equal talent of any other position.

But with regards to a great PG, recently Kidd, Nash, and Rose all made huge impacts on their team's succss but were ultimately beaten by teams with multiple HOFers.

Alayla
03-09-2014, 09:12 PM
as for point guard and the age old question about how vital they are to a successful offense that saying didnt start because GM's and players think the point should be the best player on the team but thats your offensive leader. In fact most of the great point guards at being point guards are in the shadows letting the scoring Anchor on the wings or down low do there jobs Most of the BEST pgs in the league in the job description sense will not be the same people who we as fans think of when he think best point guard.


Fans seem to look at it as best PLAYER at the point guard position not who most carry's the run the offense behind the curtain and make the magic happen sense it goes much beyond numbers.

Fisher for example was a great PG
Kidd was a great point guard particularly late in his career
Parker
Payton
Nash (ringless)
CP3 (ringless)
Billups
even going back to Harper and magic for the bulls and lakers
even down to Tiny Archibald on the celtics

no matter what its very VERY hard to win a ring without at least an above average Point Guard or Center

The Center is the Defensive Anchor and also likely going to get the best qauilty of shots on offense
And the Point guard is the backbone and leadership of a team.

While a point or Center may not have been the best player on there team in many recent rings both potions are consistently in the top 3 or so of that teams players once again because its VERY HARD to win without them.

Tony_Starks
03-09-2014, 09:13 PM
I say PG. a top notch pg can run your team for a long time and preserve your Bigs careers a few extra years......

Alayla
03-09-2014, 09:14 PM
I guess what im saying is Center is first but Point has to be a very close 2nd.

John Walls Era
03-09-2014, 09:16 PM
Center. You really need a good defensive anchor to win. I know the Heat didn't really have a C, but they had 3 all stars and their PF was actually a good help defender with a midrange shot.

Trwood12
03-09-2014, 11:32 PM
Offensively it's point guards. If you don't have someone who can command the team and get the ball where he wants it then you won't score nearly as much. Defensively its centers. There is no arguing that. And because defense always beats offense, I have to lean towards the big men. (I voted PG but quickly realized I was wrong).

beyourself
03-09-2014, 11:49 PM
Offensively it's point guards. If you don't have someone who can command the team and get the ball where he wants it then you won't score nearly as much. Defensively its centers. There is no arguing that. And because defense always beats offense, I have to lean towards the big men. (I voted PG but quickly realized I was wrong).

Michael Jordan was pretty good at offense he's a wing. So is Kevin Durant, he's a wing. Shaq was pretty good at offense too. He's not a PG.

Jamiecballer
03-10-2014, 12:01 AM
I know it's a thread that pops up a lot, whatever. I keep hearing about the importance of not only PGs, but a certain "true" or "pass-first" PG. Without trying to skew things too much, I'll just say that I think that position's importance has long been overrated.

And I'm aware that defining positions is becoming harder and harder to do, something I argue all the time. Our traditional definitions of some of these positions don't quite work any more. But ignore that, I guess.


So, generally speaking, what position do you feel is most important? PG? SG? SF? PF? C? I know there are a lot of variables, but let's say you're building a team from scratch and have a choice of 5 equally talented/aged/whatever players to pick first, but each play a different position. Which one are you taking to build around?

The least important position is PG. At the same time a me-first PG can put the brakes on a teams potential like no one else.

beyourself
03-10-2014, 12:03 AM
The least important position is PG. At the same time a me-first PG can put the brakes on a teams potential like no one else.

Why do people actually think PG is the most important position? I don't understand.

Jamiecballer
03-10-2014, 12:05 AM
You don't need a great PG period. It's really ridiculous how overrated the position is. You don't need a PG who just hogs all the ball handling duties and you rely on him to create open looks for everybody. Why would you need that when team ball movement is faster than elite PG movement.

But you don't need a scoring PG either. Believe me a guy who dribbles, dribbles, dribbles, dribbles and then dribbles more before taking a billion shots isn't what you need either.

Anything more than a Tony Parker is a waste IMO.
Bingo cunnilingus.

Jamiecballer
03-10-2014, 12:08 AM
Why do people actually think PG is the most important position? I don't understand.

I guess they haven't noticed how often championship teams have journeyman PGs.

FOBolous
03-10-2014, 12:12 AM
you'll need a ball handler and a post defender

Trwood12
03-10-2014, 12:16 AM
Michael Jordan was pretty good at offense he's a wing. So is Kevin Durant, he's a wing. Shaq was pretty good at offense too. He's not a PG.

offense not because they actually put up the points but because If you are a good PG you can command the floor and get the ball to scorers like KD with ease.

c.c.
03-10-2014, 12:24 AM
I would have to say the Center position because it's not easy to find a player that's 6'10-7'2 (of course there been taller ones but that's the average height nowadays) with an offensive game who protect the rim also. That will clearly give you the advantage against teams on a nightly bases due to the fact they can't match up with you on both ends. If you have a good Center, the rest will fall in place. *my opinion*

3RDASYSTEM
03-10-2014, 12:30 AM
MIKAN
WILT
RUSSELL
UNSELD
ALCINDOR
DREAM
EWING
D ROB
M MALONE
SAMPSON
SHAQ
DUNCAN
B WALLACE
D HOWARD

now add a dominant combo guard or just a dominant PG - SG and you have the recipe for multiple conference/finals appearances, especially with the more dominant offensive bigs on the list, its a reason why JORDAN gets so much more extra mediahype, because he won without a dominant post big man

slashsnake
03-10-2014, 01:00 AM
A big... Be it a PF or C, it doesn't matter today, but a big who can get you points in the paint on high percentage shots with some consistency, defend the paint, and rebound. Everyone plays in the paint, not everyone plays on the perimeter.

I like watching PG play the most, but look at the best PG's. Kidd won a championship when he was no longer great. CP3, Nash, Penny, Price, Marbury, Stoudemire, Kenny Anderson, Tim Hardaway, Deron Williams, KJ, Payton, Stockton. All the PG's I liked couldn't get it done. Sure Parker is a great who did, but had arguably the greatest PF of all time on his side. Isiah did it years ago, but as a part of a superbly well coached and talented roster. Chauncey won one, and is a great leader, but the long defenders on that team was their driving force.

Rndy
03-10-2014, 01:09 AM
I'm going Center especially what this league has turned into can you imagine what would happen if another Hakeem or Shaq came along? Nobody would no wtf to do because teams are being built around basically PFs playing Center. Eventually it's going to happen again a beast will come along and teams designed like Miami are just not built to prepare for something like that.

Ebbs
03-10-2014, 01:12 AM
I'd like to choose what ever position the league is thinnest at. So shooting guard or Center.

Point guard is currently the least important position

beyourself
03-10-2014, 12:05 PM
I wonder when the next beast big men will come along. Some say it's Anthony Davis and I agree defensively. But look at all of the truly great bigs. Like Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, KAJ. They all dominated with their backs to the basket. Even though Duncan and Hakeem were good facing up as well they still could go down their and put the moves on.

Davis seems more like a Dirk and Garnett type of player as his ceiling. I don't think he'll really take over the league until he can post up.

THE MTL
03-10-2014, 11:20 PM
I have two answers.

1. Like most posters I'm between PG and C. In the end I'll go with C.

2. However having a superstar SG or SF takes you the furthest in this league.

MrfadeawayJB
03-10-2014, 11:52 PM
SF
Pg
C
Pf
Sg

In that order

Swashcuff
03-11-2014, 11:19 AM
To me its basketball common sense, I mean after all this is a big man's game. I remember Magic spoke on this once and he said something along the lines of "get it to the big man he's the most important player on the court". He said this when speaking of the use of Cs today and what he did when he played with younger Kareem.

Swashcuff
03-11-2014, 11:21 AM
MIKAN
WILT
RUSSELL
UNSELD
ALCINDOR
DREAM
EWING
D ROB
M MALONE
SAMPSON
SHAQ
DUNCAN
B WALLACE
D HOWARD

now add a dominant combo guard or just a dominant PG - SG and you have the recipe for multiple conference/finals appearances, especially with the more dominant offensive bigs on the list, its a reason why JORDAN gets so much more extra mediahype, because he won without a dominant post big man

And deservingly so. The Bulls are the only dynasty in the history of the game that was not anchored by a HOF Big.

Tony_Starks
03-11-2014, 01:01 PM
People speak on the lack of superstar pgs to win chips but that kindof reinforces the point that they are so rare to come by.

You think the Heat wouldn't have won with CP3? Tony Parker almost led his team to yet another ring last year and he's on the downside. Mavs won with a aged J Kidd.....

Baller1
03-11-2014, 01:02 PM
And deservingly so. The Bulls are the only dynasty in the history of the game that was not anchored by a HOF Big.

Well until the current Miami dynasty.

beyourself
03-11-2014, 01:04 PM
People speak on the lack of superstar pgs to win chips but that kindof reinforces the point that they are so rare to come by.

You think the Heat wouldn't have won with CP3? Tony Parker almost led his team to yet another ring last year and he's on the downside. Mavs won with a aged J Kidd.....

At some point a PG is too good for the good of his own team. I want my PG to be support. Not dribble constantly and always touching the ball.