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View Full Version : Where should Shaq have his jersey retired?



JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2014, 07:37 AM
Louisiana
Orlando
Los Angeles
Miami
Phoenix
Cleveland
Boston
No where


Multiple votes are allowed on this one. I've bolded my selections.

Do you think over time that Shaq's reputation may cause teams to retire his jersey even if he only played a season or two with them? Wilt has his number retired in Oakland even though he never played in that city, and only played two seasons with the San Fran Warriors (though he played for the Philly Warriors for a few years).

He only won a ring in LAL, but has his number retired in Philly, Oakland and LAL. I think he is deserving, obviously, but will Shaq warrant the same kind of attention in 20 years? Will he be a big enough legend that just having him in your team's jersey, even if only for a year, will be cause enough to retire it?

Goose17
03-09-2014, 07:46 AM
All of the above.

Seriously though, LA already retired it, why is that an option on the poll?... LSU, Orlando and Miami should all seriously consider retiring his jersey. Especially Miami. They should retire Shaq and Wades jersey in the same year if possible.

tredigs
03-09-2014, 07:54 AM
All of the above.

Seriously though, LA already retired it, why is that an option on the poll?... LSU, Orlando and Miami should all seriously consider retiring his jersey. Especially Miami. They should retire Shaq and Wades jersey in the same year if possible.

No, I understand they won the ship but Shaq and "Heat" have very little connection. It would be ridiculous to retire a jersey for a 2 year transfer. Orlando (maybe, but he left and did not win a ship, so no imo), LA and LSU sure. Nothing else.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2014, 07:56 AM
All of the above.

Seriously though, LA already retired it, why is that an option on the poll?... LSU, Orlando and Miami should all seriously consider retiring his jersey. Especially Miami. They should retire Shaq and Wades jersey in the same year if possible.


I agree, LAL should be unanimous. In included it, not because I'm asking where it is or will be retired, but where fans think it SHOULD be retired. Whether it is or isn't retired has not bearing on whether a given fan thinks it should be retired. Case and point, Vince Carter. Toronto will eventual retire his jersey, I imagine, but a lot of fans will still disagree with that, whether they do it or not.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2014, 07:59 AM
No, I understand they won the ship but Shaq and "Heat" have very little connection. It would be ridiculous to retire a jersey for a 2 year transfer. Orlando (maybe, but he left and did not win a ship, so no imo), LA and LSU sure. Nothing else.

Yeah... but Shaq's tenure in Miami had a huge impact on the franchise. He won them their first championship. Without him, Miami would have been slugging through the east, Detroit would have been in the finals more, and when LBJ's contract came up, it might have been Wade jumping ship to Cleveland instead of the other way around. And, had Wade not been in a deep playoff run before 2012, he may have forced a trade before then.

Would LBJ have signed with the Heat had Riley not proven that he could build a contender? Without the Shaq/Wade title in Miami, there likely wouldn't be a LBJ/Wade repeat in Miami.

Anybody who is the primary reason your team wins its first championship deserves to have his jersey retired there, barring any unethical behaviour afterwards.

Goose17
03-09-2014, 08:02 AM
No, I understand they won the ship but Shaq and "Heat" have very little connection. It would be ridiculous to retire a jersey for a 2 year transfer. Orlando (maybe, but he left and did not win a ship, so no imo), LA and LSU sure. Nothing else.

He was in Miami for four years, not two.

How can you say they have very little connection? He helped bring Miami it's first ever NBA championship. If being one the alpha's on the team that netted your franchise it's first championship isn't a good enough reason to have your jersey retired I don't know what is.

tredigs
03-09-2014, 08:04 AM
If he won Finals MVP and not their franchise Golden Boy D Wade I'd see the argument, but that wasn't the case. I could care less about this though, I have no clue why I'm in this thread.

ManningToTyree
03-09-2014, 08:28 AM
Orlando in addition to the lakers who have already done so.

Hellcrooner
03-09-2014, 12:30 PM
Magic, led them to their first finals
Lakers lead them to 3 rings.
Heat , main reason they won a ring, yes MAIN reason, NO SHAQ NO RING.

RipCity32
03-09-2014, 01:00 PM
Lakers

Trueblue2
03-09-2014, 04:21 PM
For sure orl, lal, mia, borderline phoenix, had the cavs won a ship id invlude them, but no. Theres 3 sure thingd anf one maybe.

beasted86
03-09-2014, 04:28 PM
He was in Miami for four years, not two.

How can you say they have very little connection? He helped bring Miami it's first ever NBA championship. If being one the alpha's on the team that netted your franchise it's first championship isn't a good enough reason to have your jersey retired I don't know what is.
3.5 years, not 4.

He's not getting his jersey retired in Miami any time soon. I can tell you that much.

If you are asking me, I say no.

Big Zo
03-09-2014, 04:34 PM
The Lakers, and they already did. The end.

Kaner
03-09-2014, 04:42 PM
Lakers, Miami, LSU

LSU should have the same number of votes as Lakers he has a statue outside LSU's Stadium.

Miami retired Jordan it would be an insult for them not to retire O'neal but probably wouldn't happen until after Pat Riley's gone.

beasted86
03-09-2014, 06:14 PM
Magic, led them to their first finals
Lakers lead them to 3 rings.
Heat , main reason they won a ring, yes MAIN reason, NO SHAQ NO RING.

False. Big reason, not the main reason.

*Superman*
03-09-2014, 06:21 PM
As a Magic fan, no thanks. I'd take a Dwight jersey retired before Shaq.

Lakers are the only team that really need to retire his jersey #.

ManRam
03-09-2014, 06:23 PM
Yeah, I think the Lakers are the only NBA that should do it. No reason for Orlando to.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2014, 07:36 PM
False. Big reason, not the main reason.

You are right. The MAIN reason they won is because the officials kept putting Wade on the line. Friendly calls got them to the finals, otherwise it would have been Detroit v Dallas.

The second biggest reason is because of Shaq. Wade might have gotten finals MVP, just like Paul Pierce got finals MVP, but Shaq was the guy they were built on, just like Garnett was the main reason Boston was in the finals. You put Al Jefferson on the Boston team, who actually averaged more points and rebounds than Garnett that year, and Boston would not have been in the finals. Likewise, you put a guy like Jermain O'Neal on Miami instead of Shaq, and they are not winning it all.


Shaq was the corner stone of that team. Period.

ManRam
03-09-2014, 07:45 PM
You are right. The MAIN reason they won is because the officials kept putting Wade on the line. Friendly calls got them to the finals, otherwise it would have been Detroit v Dallas.

The second biggest reason is because of Shaq. Wade might have gotten finals MVP, just like Paul Pierce got finals MVP, but Shaq was the guy they were built on, just like Garnett was the main reason Boston was in the finals. You put Al Jefferson on the Boston team, who actually averaged more points and rebounds than Garnett that year, and Boston would not have been in the finals. Likewise, you put a guy like Jermain O'Neal on Miami instead of Shaq, and they are not winning it all.


Shaq was the corner stone of that team. Period.

Oh stop it. You're better than this.

Wade went 28-6-6 in the playoffs that year. On .50/.38/.81 shooting. 9 FTAs a game is a lot, sure...but I've rarely ever seen a player play as aggressive and attack the rim as much as him. He earned the VAST majority of those trips to the line. I've never gotten that argument. He was a menace.

Shaq went 18-10-2. He had a sub-20 PER. He had 1/3rd as many win shares. He played 9 fewer minutes a game.


3 years on a team shouldn't warrant jersey retirements. Even if you win a ring as a second option.

LAL is the only team that should consider doing it...and they have.

Slug3
03-09-2014, 07:50 PM
Really only LSU and LA. No place else.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2014, 07:50 PM
I feel like I should defend my selections.

LSU is legit. Lakers are a no brainer, but my other two selections don't seem to be too popular.

I think Orlando should retire his jersey for sure. He started his career there, he put Orlando on the basketball map, and he got them to their first NBA finals. I know a lot of fans are upset that he left, but when I read his autobiography, he was pretty honest about the situation there. Two other players had just signed 100-million dollar contracts (I believe Juwan Howard and Alonzo Mourning), but the offer Orlando came to Shaq with was far below what those two were signed for, despite the fact that everybody knew Shaq was a far better player than those guys and despite the fact everybody knew they were making 100mil. Orlando said: This is what we are offering you. Jerry West called up, made a couple of moves to clear cap space, and offered Shaq the richest contract ever at the time. What was he supposed to do? Take less for a team that slighted him? Shaq would have stayed in Orlando and won multiple championships there if he had been treated right. If management didn't low ball him and offered him the contract he deserved, he wouldn't have even taken the call from West. As it stands, Orlando management is the reason he left. Fans should be upset with their management, not with Shaq.


As for Miam, I know that Shaq left on bad terms, but he brought them their first NBA championship. He turned their culture into a winning culture. If Wade had not has Shaq help him win his first title, then he likely would have demanded a trade long before he became a free agent, especially considering how they wasted a high pick on Beasley. When Pat Riley sat down with Bosh and LBJ, he COULD tell them: I know how to build a championship team. Because he had. He wouldn't have been able to do that without Shaq. Had Wade been sitting around for years, getting knocked out of the playoffs by Detroit and then Boston, he wouldn't have been inclined to stay with Miami. As it was, Shaq set a standard and put a huge gold ring on Riley's resume as a GM. That is what kept Wade happy in Miami, and that is what made Miami a easy sell to Bosh and James. Without Shaq helping Miami to their first title, there would be not second and third. Period. His influence on that team was HUGE. Also, he made them profitable. They were selling tickets like crazy. They were moving merchandise and they had the money to spend afterwards. If they had had a couple of season of second round exits and then the lottery, they wouldn't have been pulling in the kind of cash they were because of Shaq.


Like him or not, you have to respect the impact he had on the organization in Miami. They have a winning culture now because of Shaq.


Kareem left the Bucks on bad terms. Wilt left Philly on bad terms. But those cities still retired those jerseys. Kareem helped Milwaukee win their first title. He was only there for two years longer than Shaq was in Miami.

You pay homage to guy who help you win. You show them respect.


Orlando's management shot themselves in the foot, but Shaq brought them their first conference championship and put them on the map. Then Shaq turned Miami into a winner. Both franchises owe him the kind of respect that a jersey retirement comes with.

We all know that regardless of where LBJ ends his career, Cleveland will retire that Jersey, and LBJ hasn't even won them a ring.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2014, 07:56 PM
Oh stop it. You're better than this.

Wade went 28-6-6 in the playoffs that year. On .50/.38/.81 shooting. 9 FTAs a game is a lot, sure...but I've rarely ever seen a player play as aggressive and attack the rim as much as him. He earned the VAST majority of those trips to the line. I've never gotten that argument. He was a menace.

Shaq went 18-10-2. He had a sub-20 PER. He had 1/3rd as many win shares. He played 9 fewer minutes a game.


3 years on a team shouldn't warrant jersey retirements. Even if you win a ring as a second option.

LAL is the only team that should consider doing it...and they have.

I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote about Wade. WADE WAS AMAZING THAT YEAR!

But Wade isn't winning with Shaq any more than Shaq is winning without Wade. Even if Wade was a bigger impact statistically, Shaq was the corner stone. These wing players forget how easy Shaq makes the game for them. Shaq takes two defenders every time he touches the ball. And the help defender always has his eye on Shaq. And Shaq isn't the kind of ball hog that is afraid to kick it out when he gets doubled. He moves the ball.


I won't disagree with anybody who says Wade was amazing that year. He was (though, let's be honest, the officials were practically performing fellatio on him mid court). But anybody who suggests that Shaq wasn't equally important to that banner, or won't admit that the attention that defenses gave Shaq opened things up for Wade BIG TIME, doesn't understand the impact Shaq had on the game.

*Superman*
03-09-2014, 09:28 PM
I feel like I should defend my selections.

LSU is legit. Lakers are a no brainer, but my other two selections don't seem to be too popular.

I think Orlando should retire his jersey for sure. He started his career there, he put Orlando on the basketball map, and he got them to their first NBA finals. I know a lot of fans are upset that he left, but when I read his autobiography, he was pretty honest about the situation there. Two other players had just signed 100-million dollar contracts (I believe Juwan Howard and Alonzo Mourning), but the offer Orlando came to Shaq with was far below what those two were signed for, despite the fact that everybody knew Shaq was a far better player than those guys and despite the fact everybody knew they were making 100mil. Orlando said: This is what we are offering you. Jerry West called up, made a couple of moves to clear cap space, and offered Shaq the richest contract ever at the time. What was he supposed to do? Take less for a team that slighted him? Shaq would have stayed in Orlando and won multiple championships there if he had been treated right. If management didn't low ball him and offered him the contract he deserved, he wouldn't have even taken the call from West. As it stands, Orlando management is the reason he left. Fans should be upset with their management, not with Shaq.


As for Miam, I know that Shaq left on bad terms, but he brought them their first NBA championship. He turned their culture into a winning culture. If Wade had not has Shaq help him win his first title, then he likely would have demanded a trade long before he became a free agent, especially considering how they wasted a high pick on Beasley. When Pat Riley sat down with Bosh and LBJ, he COULD tell them: I know how to build a championship team. Because he had. He wouldn't have been able to do that without Shaq. Had Wade been sitting around for years, getting knocked out of the playoffs by Detroit and then Boston, he wouldn't have been inclined to stay with Miami. As it was, Shaq set a standard and put a huge gold ring on Riley's resume as a GM. That is what kept Wade happy in Miami, and that is what made Miami a easy sell to Bosh and James. Without Shaq helping Miami to their first title, there would be not second and third. Period. His influence on that team was HUGE. Also, he made them profitable. They were selling tickets like crazy. They were moving merchandise and they had the money to spend afterwards. If they had had a couple of season of second round exits and then the lottery, they wouldn't have been pulling in the kind of cash they were because of Shaq.


Like him or not, you have to respect the impact he had on the organization in Miami. They have a winning culture now because of Shaq.


Kareem left the Bucks on bad terms. Wilt left Philly on bad terms. But those cities still retired those jerseys. Kareem helped Milwaukee win their first title. He was only there for two years longer than Shaq was in Miami.

You pay homage to guy who help you win. You show them respect.


Orlando's management shot themselves in the foot, but Shaq brought them their first conference championship and put them on the map. Then Shaq turned Miami into a winner. Both franchises owe him the kind of respect that a jersey retirement comes with.

We all know that regardless of where LBJ ends his career, Cleveland will retire that Jersey, and LBJ hasn't even won them a ring.

I don't think a Finals trip is that big of an accomplishment to have a jersey retired. It's a nice place to start, but you have to have other aspects to surround it. Also, comparing Shaq to Orlando and LeBron in Cleveland are much different. Dwight in Orlando and LeBron in Cleveland are more relevant discussions. And in Shaq's final year the Magic were swept in the EC by Jordan's Bulls and he left. Your post has some truth to it about him being low balled, but all that really doesn't matter anymore. It's about what was accomplished by the player. At the end of the day he left and was more successful with another team and he gave LA championships, not Orlando. Even though he was drafted by ORL and had some great statistical seasons, in the end it really didn't amount to anything but personal accomplishments for him. That's why his jersey is retired with the Lakers.

At least in Dwight's case, he gave 7-8 solid years, started from the bottom and gave this team multiple 50+ win seasons and playoff appearances and one finals appearance. He really brought the Magic to being a great team for several years. Although his departure kind of sucked, I didn't blame him because he was on a team that was financially constrained and had no other avenues to get better. That Finals appearance in 2009 was the apex and everything after was a step downwards.

Big Zo
03-09-2014, 10:35 PM
I feel like I should defend my selections.

LSU is legit. Lakers are a no brainer, but my other two selections don't seem to be too popular.

I think Orlando should retire his jersey for sure. He started his career there, he put Orlando on the basketball map, and he got them to their first NBA finals. I know a lot of fans are upset that he left, but when I read his autobiography, he was pretty honest about the situation there. Two other players had just signed 100-million dollar contracts (I believe Juwan Howard and Alonzo Mourning), but the offer Orlando came to Shaq with was far below what those two were signed for, despite the fact that everybody knew Shaq was a far better player than those guys and despite the fact everybody knew they were making 100mil. Orlando said: This is what we are offering you. Jerry West called up, made a couple of moves to clear cap space, and offered Shaq the richest contract ever at the time. What was he supposed to do? Take less for a team that slighted him? Shaq would have stayed in Orlando and won multiple championships there if he had been treated right. If management didn't low ball him and offered him the contract he deserved, he wouldn't have even taken the call from West. As it stands, Orlando management is the reason he left. Fans should be upset with their management, not with Shaq.


As for Miam, I know that Shaq left on bad terms, but he brought them their first NBA championship. He turned their culture into a winning culture. If Wade had not has Shaq help him win his first title, then he likely would have demanded a trade long before he became a free agent, especially considering how they wasted a high pick on Beasley. When Pat Riley sat down with Bosh and LBJ, he COULD tell them: I know how to build a championship team. Because he had. He wouldn't have been able to do that without Shaq. Had Wade been sitting around for years, getting knocked out of the playoffs by Detroit and then Boston, he wouldn't have been inclined to stay with Miami. As it was, Shaq set a standard and put a huge gold ring on Riley's resume as a GM. That is what kept Wade happy in Miami, and that is what made Miami a easy sell to Bosh and James. Without Shaq helping Miami to their first title, there would be not second and third. Period. His influence on that team was HUGE. Also, he made them profitable. They were selling tickets like crazy. They were moving merchandise and they had the money to spend afterwards. If they had had a couple of season of second round exits and then the lottery, they wouldn't have been pulling in the kind of cash they were because of Shaq.


Like him or not, you have to respect the impact he had on the organization in Miami. They have a winning culture now because of Shaq.


Kareem left the Bucks on bad terms. Wilt left Philly on bad terms. But those cities still retired those jerseys. Kareem helped Milwaukee win their first title. He was only there for two years longer than Shaq was in Miami.

You pay homage to guy who help you win. You show them respect.


Orlando's management shot themselves in the foot, but Shaq brought them their first conference championship and put them on the map. Then Shaq turned Miami into a winner. Both franchises owe him the kind of respect that a jersey retirement comes with.

We all know that regardless of where LBJ ends his career, Cleveland will retire that Jersey, and LBJ hasn't even won them a ring.

Shaq did NOT change the culture down here. Pat Riley did. The Heat had championship contending teams in the late '90's/early 2000's before Shaq got here.

Hellcrooner
03-09-2014, 11:00 PM
dudes there were other 3 destinations mentioned for a Shaq trade in 04 appart of Miami.


Kings wanted to pair him with webber were offering peja and whatever.
they WOULD have won the ring.

Mavs wanted to pair him with Dirk and offered finley, draft pick ( devin Harris) and whatever
they WOULD have won the ring.

Grizz wanted to pair him with Pau, were offering Swift, battier , pick and filler

they WOULD have won the ring.


Where exatcly was Heat going with Wade+butler`+Odom ?
yeh ring.....sure..........:rolleyes:

J-Heyfever
03-09-2014, 11:23 PM
As a heat fan I respect the fact that Shaq helped us win a ring but I can't see retiring any players jersey based on 3 1/2 years no matter how amazing and how influential they may have been. I just can't see retiring a players jersey based on that little sample size even for the heat(who have retired MJs jersey based solely on his league wide impact on the NBA as a whole).

FYL_McVeezy
03-09-2014, 11:27 PM
LSU and LA that's it.

Hellcrooner
03-09-2014, 11:34 PM
btw
we are talking the heat.

they retire the number of players that not only did not play for them but actually beat the crap out of them.


So, why in earth should they not retire shaqs?

:shrug:

lol, please
03-10-2014, 02:28 AM
Both Orlando and LA. One of the greatest ever.

slashsnake
03-10-2014, 02:43 AM
Magic, led them to their first finals
Lakers lead them to 3 rings.
Heat , main reason they won a ring, yes MAIN reason, NO SHAQ NO RING.

No Wade no ring either though. His just exploding the last 4 finals games is why they turned around that series and won it. Something like 40 and 8 boards he averaged in those 4 wins. The one thing Shaq was up till that year was HUGE in the finals, every single one. That year, he had the awful free throw shooting to end it, the 5 point 6 board nights, the 25-30 minute games, and was the #2. Defensively he was good, but Dallas wasn't a team that went through the post to score where he had much of a man defense worry. Wade was playing 40+ minutes out there even 50 in a game.

Or no Pat, no ring.

I wouldn't have a problem with Orlando and Miami retiring his jersey, he was a great guy for the community, made those teams a lot better, and truly was both teams best big man in their (short) franchise histories (sorry Seikaly and Dwight).

flclfanman
03-10-2014, 08:14 AM
LSU, LA, and ORL.

The other teams he was there visiting.

todu82
03-10-2014, 10:05 AM
Orlando, LSU, Miami and LA Lakers.

Jeffy25
03-10-2014, 11:18 AM
LSU, Orlando, Lakers


If Miami wanted to, I guess so. But I wouldn't if I was them....but hell, they did it for MJ, so I'm sure they will.

Jeffy25
03-10-2014, 11:21 AM
No Wade no ring either though. His just exploding the last 4 finals games is why they turned around that series and won it. Something like 40 and 8 boards he averaged in those 4 wins. The one thing Shaq was up till that year was HUGE in the finals, every single one. .

In 06?

Shaq in the last four games did:
15 points, 12 boards, 36.2 minutes, 6/10 shooting
Wade in the last four games did:
39.3 points, 8.3 boards, 44.6 minutes, 12/23.8 shooting

beasted86
03-10-2014, 12:59 PM
I feel like I should defend my selections.

LSU is legit. Lakers are a no brainer, but my other two selections don't seem to be too popular.

I think Orlando should retire his jersey for sure. He started his career there, he put Orlando on the basketball map, and he got them to their first NBA finals. I know a lot of fans are upset that he left, but when I read his autobiography, he was pretty honest about the situation there. Two other players had just signed 100-million dollar contracts (I believe Juwan Howard and Alonzo Mourning), but the offer Orlando came to Shaq with was far below what those two were signed for, despite the fact that everybody knew Shaq was a far better player than those guys and despite the fact everybody knew they were making 100mil. Orlando said: This is what we are offering you. Jerry West called up, made a couple of moves to clear cap space, and offered Shaq the richest contract ever at the time. What was he supposed to do? Take less for a team that slighted him? Shaq would have stayed in Orlando and won multiple championships there if he had been treated right. If management didn't low ball him and offered him the contract he deserved, he wouldn't have even taken the call from West. As it stands, Orlando management is the reason he left. Fans should be upset with their management, not with Shaq.


As for Miam, I know that Shaq left on bad terms, but he brought them their first NBA championship. He turned their culture into a winning culture. If Wade had not has Shaq help him win his first title, then he likely would have demanded a trade long before he became a free agent, especially considering how they wasted a high pick on Beasley. When Pat Riley sat down with Bosh and LBJ, he COULD tell them: I know how to build a championship team. Because he had. He wouldn't have been able to do that without Shaq. Had Wade been sitting around for years, getting knocked out of the playoffs by Detroit and then Boston, he wouldn't have been inclined to stay with Miami. As it was, Shaq set a standard and put a huge gold ring on Riley's resume as a GM. That is what kept Wade happy in Miami, and that is what made Miami a easy sell to Bosh and James. Without Shaq helping Miami to their first title, there would be not second and third. Period. His influence on that team was HUGE. Also, he made them profitable. They were selling tickets like crazy. They were moving merchandise and they had the money to spend afterwards. If they had had a couple of season of second round exits and then the lottery, they wouldn't have been pulling in the kind of cash they were because of Shaq.


Like him or not, you have to respect the impact he had on the organization in Miami. They have a winning culture now because of Shaq.


Kareem left the Bucks on bad terms. Wilt left Philly on bad terms. But those cities still retired those jerseys. Kareem helped Milwaukee win their first title. He was only there for two years longer than Shaq was in Miami.

You pay homage to guy who help you win. You show them respect.


Orlando's management shot themselves in the foot, but Shaq brought them their first conference championship and put them on the map. Then Shaq turned Miami into a winner. Both franchises owe him the kind of respect that a jersey retirement comes with.

We all know that regardless of where LBJ ends his career, Cleveland will retire that Jersey, and LBJ hasn't even won them a ring.

Funny how a non Miami fan thinks he knows what impact "x" player had on the franchise.

Shaq was the third leading scorer in the Finals at a measly 13.7 ppg, waaaaaaaay behind Wade 34.7, and slightly behind a diminished Antoine Walker @ 13.8. When you score almost 1/3rd of the leading scorer, average less blocks than a 6'4" guard (0.8 vs. 1.0) and only 2.4 more rebounds, then I'd hope common sense comes into play who the main reason for success is. The defense and rebounding of Mourning and Haslem on Dirk and the rest of the Mavs was a bigger factor than Shaq.

I also laugh at this "Shaq brought a winning culture" nonsense as if that wasn't Pat Riley and Alonzo Mourning. Yeah, going to the playoffs 6 of the previous 8 years before Shaq signing wasn't Riley establishing a winning culture... No throw that away, it was really Shaq in 2005. Shaq in actuality took a gamble on signing and trading to a losing franchise because he had such a good heart and wanted to turn it around. :crazy:

Shaq played a big role in helping the team get to the Finals, but he was clearly a sidekick at that point to Wade both in the regular playoffs and most pronounced in the Finals. He himself admitted as much. So it really is funny that you think the way you do... But hey, my feelings aren't hurt or anything. Everyone is allowed an opinion no matter how loony.

Jeffy25
03-10-2014, 01:07 PM
Funny how a non Miami fan thinks he knows what impact "x" player had on the franchise.

Shaq was the third leading scorer in the Finals at a measly 13.7 ppg, waaaaaaaay behind Wade 34.7, and slightly behind a diminished Antoine Walker @ 13.8. When you score almost 1/3rd of the leading scorer, average less blocks than a 6'4" guard (0.8 vs. 1.0) and only 3 more rebounds, then I'd hope common sense comes into play who the main reason for success is. The defense and rebounding of Mourning and Haslem on Dirk and the rest of the Mavs was a bigger factor than Shaq.

Shaq played a big role in helping the team get to the Finals, but he was clearly a sidekick at that point to Wade both in the regular playoffs and most pronounced in the Finals. He himself admitted as much. So it really is funny that you think the way you do... But hey, my feelings aren't hurt or anything. Everyone is allowed an opinion no matter how loony.
No way Miami wins in 06 without Shaq.

Is that even a discussion? Sure, Wade was the most valuable player that season for the Heat, but Shaq was pivotal in growing Wade, pivotal on helping Wade, pivotal in helping the post game.

That's not even a discussion, of course he significantly helped them win.


'Third in scoring'

13.7, third to Walker at 13.8
First in rebounding at 10.2
Third in defense (when totaling blocks plus steals per game) to Wade and Mourning


Wade was the key factor of those Finals, but they don't win them without Shaq. He was a key player that Finals. He was second in average game score, only 6 points behind Wade, and 3 points ahead of Jason Williams

beasted86
03-10-2014, 01:15 PM
No way Miami wins in 06 without Shaq.

Is that even a discussion? Sure, Wade was the most valuable player that season for the Heat, but Shaq was pivotal in growing Wade, pivotal on helping Wade, pivotal in helping the post game.

That's not even a discussion, of course he significantly helped them win.


'Third in scoring'

13.7, third to Walker at 13.8
First in rebounding at 10.2
Third in defense (when totaling blocks plus steals per game) to Wade and Mourning


Wade was the key factor of those Finals, but they don't win them without Shaq. He was a key player that Finals. He was second in average game score, only 6 points behind Wade, and 3 points ahead of Jason Williams
Who is disputing anything you just said?

Somebody said Shaq was the MVP instead of Wade...that's what my post was disputing.

Jeffy25
03-10-2014, 01:20 PM
Who is disputing anything you just said?

Somebody said Shaq was the MVP instead of Wade...that's what my post was disputing.
Oh, my bad.

I thought you were saying he was nothing but a back up at that point (or implying that).