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View Full Version : Are the Indiana Pacers contenders or pretenders?



sunsfan88
03-08-2014, 03:43 AM
They got off to a great start but have stumbled since. I watched some of their games in Nov-Dec and I thought they were gonna just destroy teams in the playoffs and may actually get past Miami and win a title beating some team in the West.

But they have dropped off since. I haven't watched too many Pacers games lately but they looked terrible against the Suns in both games against them and they have struggled against other teams who get out and run/are very good offensively like the Warriors, Rockets, Mavs etc.

Pacers are 2-5 against Western conference playoff teams since the new year, 2014, started. They are just 13-9 overall since January 21st.

Of course Indiana may be one of those teams who does better in the playoffs than how they look now. And they still have the best record in the East so its not time to quite press the panic button. Once playoffs starts, the game slows down and the Pacers seem better in those kind of situations where they can take advantage of their defense.

But the Pacers offense still looks disastrous. Did they run out of energy after their hot start? What do you think? Are they contenders or pretenders?

PacersForLife
03-08-2014, 03:59 AM
The team hasn't looked the same for about a month or two. They most definitely struggle with teams who like to run and shoot threes. Luckily, the game usually slows down come playoff time which obviously fits the Pacers' style.

I'll admit I'm a little concerned, but I think it is a slump and they should get over it. I would like to think that some of their recent struggles has to do with integrating new guys and things like that. We still have to bring Bynum into the rotation. I think it will take a bit for the whole team to gel.

That doesn't excuse their play lately of course, they don't seem to really care until it's too late some games. They have let -.500 teams hang with them and didn't seem to take many games seriously and it has caught up to them. I would like to wait and see what they look like come playoff time when the new pieces should have had plenty of time to gel.

sunsfan88
03-08-2014, 04:21 AM
The team hasn't looked the same for about a month or two. They most definitely struggle with teams who like to run and shoot threes. Luckily, the game usually slows down come playoff time which obviously fits the Pacers' style.

I'll admit I'm a little concerned, but I think it is a slump and they should get over it. I would like to think that some of their recent struggles has to do with integrating new guys and things like that. We still have to bring Bynum into the rotation. I think it will take a bit for the whole team to gel.

That doesn't excuse their play lately of course, they don't seem to really care until it's too late some games. They have let -.500 teams hang with them and didn't seem to take many games seriously and it has caught up to them. I would like to wait and see what they look like come playoff time when the new pieces should have had plenty of time to gel.

Do you really think Bynum will do more good than harm though? He's known to mess up team chemistry. Everywhere he's been in the past 3 years, that team's sucked. Lakers sucked his last season there (by LAL standards), 76ers sucked his whole time there and Cavs sucked his whole time there.

Seems like he can mess up team chemistry even without playing and just being part of the team.

PacersForLife
03-08-2014, 04:26 AM
Do you really think Bynum will do more good than harm though? He's known to mess up team chemistry. Everywhere he's been in the past 3 years, that team's sucked. Lakers sucked his last season there (by LAL standards), 76ers sucked his whole time there and Cavs sucked his whole time there.

Seems like he can mess up team chemistry even without playing and just being part of the team.

Well from what it sounds like, Bynum seems to be a bit misunderstood in some ways. The rest of the team has had nothing but positive things to say about him. Sounds like he keeps to himself and does his workout and wants to prove the doubters wrong. Who knows how much of that is true and nobody knows what goes on behind the scenes except for coaches, teammates, etc.

I really don't think this has anything to do whatsoever with Bynum and his reputation. He doesn't even travel with the team and the two blowouts have happened on the road.

kobebabe
03-08-2014, 04:48 AM
Their problem has been offensive deficiency but right now their biggest problem is the poor play of PG. He hasn't been the same player he was before the all star game. To score 2 points against a Mediocre bobcat team and then 13 a game later doesn't spell superstar. He is starting to look a bit overrated. A superstar can struggle but not to the point of being virtually a non factor in a game. Lebron, KD, Kobe never had such horrible games when they struggled. The whole team as a whole is not very good offensively anyways and that is going to be their down fall come playoffs.

PacersForLife
03-08-2014, 05:06 AM
Their problem has been offensive deficiency but right now their biggest problem is the poor play of PG. He hasn't been the same player he was before the all star game. To score 2 points against a Mediocre bobcat team and then 13 a game later doesn't spell superstar. He is starting to look a bit overrated. A superstar can struggle but not to the point of being virtually a non factor in a game. Lebron, KD, Kobe never had such horrible games when they struggled. The whole team as a whole is not very good offensively anyways and that is going to be their down fall come playoffs.

The team has guys who can score, it just seems like the offensive system may be the flaw of this team. Vogel is a great defensive coach, but the offense is very questionable at times. You see how guys like DJ Augustin and Gerald Green have seemed to thrive in new situations after not doing much at all here and it kinda makes you wonder.

jerellh528
03-08-2014, 05:08 AM
Favorites

John Walls Era
03-08-2014, 06:50 AM
Contenders in the East, but people are hoping a bit too much that they knock of the Heat and they're starting to think its a certainty. Not happening.

tredigs
03-08-2014, 06:58 AM
They could and may very well still knock off the Heat (looking less likely now, but this is a stacked team with great D), I've seen them play far better than their current product. That said, I think the West take the ship this season regardless of who comes out of the East.

Asik's better
03-08-2014, 07:42 AM
I still think they can. There just going through a rough patch. They have the rest of the season to sought themselves out.

chipper10
03-08-2014, 07:57 AM
Oh come on. George has been in a funk as of late and its rough part of the season. They have too much talent and heart to not be contenders. Hell they might still be the favorites. I mean other than lebrons 61 point game, the heat havent looked championship worthy either, but im not counting them out.

Leftcoast_yg
03-08-2014, 08:11 AM
Fatigue is the issue it has happened to many championship teams.

torocan
03-08-2014, 08:22 AM
The Pacers are having a rough stretch right now.

It happens to every team. It's mostly the timing that's hurting them the most. You can have a rough stretch against bad teams and still put up Wins. Do it against an upper echelon team and you're going to get your butt handed to you.

Sure, the Pacers are 0-3 in the last 3 games, but 2 of those losses were against GSW and the Rockets -- two teams that are in the 3-5 seed race in the West and you can actually see potentially in the WCF if the chips land right. It doesn't matter if you're the Pacers, Miami, OKC or the Spurs... if you're slumping when those two teams are playing well, they'll run you out of the gym.

And the Bobcats? File that under the occasional bad game. You don't get worked up over a 40+ win season with 20+ games to go just because you lost 3 in a row.

The Rockets have the best record since Jan 1., but during that stretch they had games where they looked sloppy, lackadaisical, had losses of focus, etc. The difference is it was mostly in the parts of their schedule that was far from their toughest.

Compare this with their current schedule...

03/04 vsMiami (win)
03/05 @Magic (win)
03/07 vsIndiana (win)
03/09 vsPortland
03/11 @OKC
03/13 @Chicago
03/16 @MIami

If Houston was slumping, they could very easily be 1-2 instead of 3-0 during this stretch. Just a case of the team gelling and playing well at the part of the schedule that they need it the most.

As for the Pacers, they need to find their mojo soon. You really don't want to lose your groove in the home stretch to the play offs... that's the way to find your way to couch after the 1st/2nd round.

KnicksorBust
03-08-2014, 08:23 AM
They are basically a lock to make the ECF and will only be 4 wins away from the finals. I am going to go out on a limb and call that a contender.

c.c.
03-08-2014, 08:37 AM
They are basically a lock to make the ECF and will only be 4 wins away from the finals. I am going to go out on a limb and call that a contender.

Yeah they have no true competition over there besides the Heat and maybe the Bulls.

JasonJohnHorn
03-08-2014, 08:59 AM
They were within a basket of the NBA finals last year. Had the coach not pulled Hibbert out in that one game, they very well could have been in the finals.


And they are better this year than last.

Yes, they are contenders. Obviously.

RocketLoc80
03-08-2014, 10:09 AM
They could and may very well still knock off the Heat (looking less likely now, but this is a stacked team with great D), I've seen them play far better than their current product. That said, I think the West take the ship this season regardless of who comes out of the East.

Ok So who beats them or Miami in the Finals?

b_russ
03-08-2014, 10:27 AM
Really? Every team has been in a slump at some point this year. Sure, the timing may not be ideal right now in the last 3rd of the season, but who's to say they can't get hot again and then everyone forgets this even happened.

sunsfan88
03-09-2014, 12:12 AM
They were within a basket of the NBA finals last year. Had the coach not pulled Hibbert out in that one game, they very well could have been in the finals.


Had the Spurs not pulled out Duncan in game 6, the Spurs could have very well won the Finals.

sunsfan88
03-09-2014, 12:24 AM
Well from what it sounds like, Bynum seems to be a bit misunderstood in some ways. The rest of the team has had nothing but positive things to say about him. Sounds like he keeps to himself and does his workout and wants to prove the doubters wrong. Who knows how much of that is true and nobody knows what goes on behind the scenes except for coaches, teammates, etc.

I really don't think this has anything to do whatsoever with Bynum and his reputation. He doesn't even travel with the team and the two blowouts have happened on the road.

I feel like I heard those exact lines when he arrived in Philly and Cleveland but yea hope it works out better in Indiana.

Baller1
03-09-2014, 12:27 AM
No one in the East is getting past Miami, so that would put them in the pretender category.

Bowman53
03-09-2014, 12:30 AM
Contenders by default because there is no serious threat in the East besides Miami. I still don't think they can beat Miami though. There bench is very bad outside of Scola.

Guppyfighter
03-09-2014, 12:36 AM
They will put it all together by the time the playoffs start.

MrfadeawayJB
03-09-2014, 12:48 AM
Well seeing that they will waltz into the ecf id say sure. They will be one of the last four standing. Do I think they can challenge Miami, yes. Can they beat the heat, no.

SlimKid
03-09-2014, 12:50 AM
No one in the East is getting past Miami, so that would put them in the pretender category.

As much as I want to be proven wrong, I have to agree with this.

KingPosey
03-09-2014, 01:12 AM
In that third quarter against the rockets t was ridiculous, they couldn't even get an entry pass to the post let alone any type of solid shot. They were absolutely frazzled and dominated.

But every team except the special few stumble over the course of 82 games, they're fine. They're big, they're deep, they're long, they have what they need.

KniCks4LiFe
03-09-2014, 01:30 AM
I did my post on them yesterday. I say pretenders.

Bostonjorge
03-09-2014, 02:34 AM
Pacers were built to take down the heat in 5. That's it.

sunsfan88
03-10-2014, 12:24 AM
The Pacers are a joke. I got crap for saying that Indiana wouldn't be top 4 in the West if they were in the East but that's still true. The Pacers would be behind OKC, SAS, HOU, and LAC in the West. They'd be like tied with Portland.

Back to back losses against Dallas and Portland smh.

dalton749
03-10-2014, 12:52 AM
raps are gunna beat them in the second round
everyone will be confused

lol, please
03-10-2014, 02:26 AM
The Pacers are for real. Stop trying to take away from a Warriors quality win.

goku
03-10-2014, 02:33 AM
I think Hibbert and George were both overrated by the media I don't think they ready to beat the heat yet they talked a lot about "if they had home court" and they are choking it away

I say that cause I believe the heat weren't fighting for it at first now they will make a run after it and I think they can regroup before the pacers can

slashsnake
03-10-2014, 02:49 AM
I agree with goku there for the most part, but they are a great defensive team and a contender, just like last year. Really, Lebron misses a buzzer beater and that series last year could have gone to the Pacers in 6.

zn23
03-10-2014, 03:10 AM
They look like a mess right now. 3 straight blowout losses in a row. They should be in panic mode.

Evan Turner is a disaster as well. What a terrible idea to trade for a below average player like him. He can't play defense and he has a negative impact offensively. He just puts up garbage numbers. His best performance for the Pacers he went 9-12 for 22 points yet the got blowout by the Bobcats by 22 points. The following game he goes -20 off the bench against the Rockets. Recently he goes -9 against the Mavericks.

They're going to learn at end of season that you can't ignore advanced metrics. His "raw" numbers look good, but take a peak at his advanced stats and he's terrible and he's showing it so far.

I'm not saying he's the reason they're struggling but it's like one bad thing after another with this team. They looked so good early on and now they are just falling apart in every area.

TheNumber37
03-10-2014, 03:27 AM
Bynum is the ringer

todu82
03-10-2014, 10:14 AM
They're contenders in the East and probably can win the East but I figure they'll get walloped in the finals by the West team.

2-ONE-5
03-10-2014, 10:49 AM
They look like a mess right now. 3 straight blowout losses in a row. They should be in panic mode.

Evan Turner is a disaster as well. What a terrible idea to trade for a below average player like him. He can't play defense and he has a negative impact offensively. He just puts up garbage numbers. His best performance for the Pacers he went 9-12 for 22 points yet the got blowout by the Bobcats by 22 points. The following game he goes -20 off the bench against the Rockets. Recently he goes -9 against the Mavericks.

They're going to learn at end of season that you can't ignore advanced metrics. His "raw" numbers look good, but take a peak at his advanced stats and he's terrible and he's showing it so far.

I'm not saying he's the reason they're struggling but it's like one bad thing after another with this team. They looked so good early on and now they are just falling apart in every area.

+/- is not a good stat to judge an individual

NYCkid12
03-10-2014, 11:20 AM
I guess contenders techinically because they're a lock for the ECF...

But I give them a very small chance at beating Miami, they're a great defensive team but so is Miami.

The big difference between the 2 teams is Miami can score the ball a bunch of different ways and the Pacers have to work so hard to score the ball. I don't see a ton of easy baskets from them like I do other teams.

And as great as Paul George is, I don't see him as the player who can take over a series....not yet at least

D-Leethal
03-10-2014, 11:25 AM
They lost by 40 in rd 1 the playoffs to the Hawks last year and than lost by 30 to the Knicks and almost went to beat Miami. They will be fine but the ridiculous start they got off too was a bit flukey - same goes for George and his torrid start. The way they have been known to turn the ball over can lend itself to ugly losses but that has always been an issue for them.

Sly Guy
03-10-2014, 12:10 PM
op brings up some good points, and a couple months of bad play is more than a slump. But I still think they'll be fine, they're long, and defensive oriented....Two things that never go away in the playoffs.

Trwood12
03-10-2014, 05:11 PM
With how they have been playing as of late, pretenders. At the beginning of the season they were contenders for sure.

monty77
03-11-2014, 06:14 AM
Pacers are a good team, top 5 without any kind of doubt. There are few teams better than they are, because they have many pieces to succeed: they have a great defense, a great coach and a great player (P.George is a top 5 player in the NBA).

However, I don't believe they are contender caliber team yet. They need to mature as a team, because they have signed a lot of players in the last year (Evan Turner, CJ Watson and Scola are only some examples). Its main star need to mature too. I don't remember a team which won the NBA which its main star player was only 23 years. It takes more team to leader a team to the Championship. Horward and L.James played the NBA Finals, but they didn't achieve it.

The good news with Pacers is that they have the proper tools to face Heat. Hibbert and Granger are nice defender players, and they take advantage of it playing against Miami because they are able to reduce Lebron's and Bosh's contribution. I dare say they are the only team in the NBA which can beat the Heat currently.

This doesn't mean they are able to win the NBA as there are good teams in the West too, and as this thread mentioned, they have bad record against playoffs, west teams so far. Maybe it's harder to contain teams which score more than 105 points per game or maybe they don't properly fit them as well as they do with Heat.

Spurs and Thunders would destroy him in the NBA Finals. These are team with recent NBA Finals experience and they have top PG in the roster (Parker and Westbrook). This is the position which Pacers find more difficult to defend. There are other team with great PG in the West, such as Warriors and Clippers (Curry and C.Paul), but I doubt they reach the NBA Finals this year.

The same situation can't be said in the East, where there aren't any top 5 PG, if we don't count Derrick Rose (injuried) and Irving (no playoffs). Maybe Walls is the only player able to make him suffer, but the rest of the team isn't as competitive as needed to beat the Pacers.

sunsfan88
03-22-2014, 10:00 PM
Pretenders easily. I'm completely conviced after the pathetic performance today.

They would barely make playoffs if they were in the West and played against West teams.

torocan
03-22-2014, 10:28 PM
Pretenders easily. I'm completely conviced after the pathetic performance today.

They would barely make playoffs if they were in the West and played against West teams.

Not so sure. I think that Memphis is just a really tough match up for them.

Indiana hangs their hat on size and defense, however they lose a significant part of their size advantage against Memphis, and Memphis has a pretty beastly roster in terms of defense between Gasol, Zbo, Conly, and Allen.

It's kind of like the Indiana/Chicago match ups. The style of game plays into both teams' strengths, except the Grizzlies has better scorers on the inside and can straight up bang in the paint with them (unlike MOST teams).

That said, unless Indiana finds some offense fast (PG *COUGH*), they're going to have some problems come play off time.

PacersForLife
03-23-2014, 12:21 AM
Pretenders easily. I'm completely conviced after the pathetic performance today.

They would barely make playoffs if they were in the West and played against West teams.
Are you saying that just because of that game? We have been horrible on back to backs all year.

east fb knicks
03-23-2014, 12:27 AM
they got an inflated record playing in the east they are ok but with that being said they are set up to beat the heat the head can't stop hibbert anything past ecf isn't happening

DillyDill
03-23-2014, 02:49 AM
Are you saying that just because of that game? We have been horrible on back to backs all year.

How long is Big Drew out? With him healthy and Hibbs I had y'all beating the heat with 2 footers. But if he's done then it's not happening

tredigs
03-23-2014, 04:13 AM
they got an inflated record playing in the east they are ok but with that being said they are set up to beat the heat the head can't stop hibbert anything past ecf isn't happening
That part's true. 34-8 against the East and 17-11 against the West.

bootsy
03-23-2014, 12:05 PM
they got an inflated record playing in the east they are ok but with that being said they are set up to beat the heat the head can't stop hibbert anything past ecf isn't happening

They're supposed to have an inflate record playing the East. That's the conference they are in. What kind of stupid logic are you coming up with.

D-Leethal
03-23-2014, 12:18 PM
They're supposed to have an inflate record playing the East. That's the conference they are in. What kind of stupid logic are you coming up with.

His logic makes a lot more sense than the absent logic your presenting in your rebuttal.

sunsfan88
03-23-2014, 01:50 PM
Are you saying that just because of that game? We have been horrible on back to backs all year.

Nah I was just rage posting cause y'all lost to the Grizz.

PacersForLife
03-23-2014, 10:44 PM
How long is Big Drew out? With him healthy and Hibbs I had y'all beating the heat with 2 footers. But if he's done then it's not happening
I don't think anybody knows.

NBA_Starter
03-23-2014, 10:47 PM
Well they are still the #1 seed and realistically the Heat will have to beat them in both remaining head to head matchups to have any shot at the #1.

FOBolous
03-23-2014, 10:51 PM
"Contender" means they have a shot at the title, and in the eastern conference, they definitely have a good chance of winning the conference and reaching the finals so I'd say they're contenders.

xxcubs22xx
03-23-2014, 11:19 PM
Their record is inflated but they are still the best team in the East. So yes, they are contenders.

NYKNYGNYY
03-24-2014, 12:06 AM
Contenders... Only teams I can see beating them are the heat spurs and maybe just maybe the thunder spending if they have Westbrook or not

sunsfan88
03-24-2014, 02:48 AM
I think they struggle against teams who have good, quick PGs and against teams that run fast tempo offenses.

Lucky for them, Miami does neither so they have a good chance of beating them. Only team I would worry about if I was Indiana would be Brooklyn. Livingston can eat that defense for lunch and Nets run a lot of small ball lately which the Pacers can't stop to save their lives.

mjm07
03-24-2014, 09:00 AM
Pacers are absolutely major contenders.

sunsfan88
03-24-2014, 04:02 PM
The Indiana Pacers are 1-4 in their five games since the All-Star break against teams with a winning record. The Pacers have a net rating of -8.9 points in those games.

The San Antonio Spurs have a 7-1 record in their eight games against teams with a winning record to rank first, followed by the Los Angeles Clippers, Brooklyn Nets, Miami Heat and Golden State Warriors.

The Pacers' remaining opponents have a combined winning percentage of .513.

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/448120069218791424/photo/1

PacersForLife
03-24-2014, 04:04 PM
I think they struggle against teams who have good, quick PGs and against teams that run fast tempo offenses.

Lucky for them, Miami does neither so they have a good chance of beating them. Only team I would worry about if I was Indiana would be Brooklyn. Livingston can eat that defense for lunch and Nets run a lot of small ball lately which the Pacers can't stop to save their lives.
We haven't lost to the Nets this season.

sunsfan88
03-24-2014, 04:06 PM
We haven't lost to the Nets this season.

Have you played the Nets since the Nets became good though?

PacersForLife
03-24-2014, 04:08 PM
Have you played the Nets since the Nets became good though?

Good point, I don't think so, but I'm still not worried about them. The only teams outside of Miami in the East that I think we might struggle with are Chicago and Toronto.

xxplayerxx23
03-24-2014, 04:40 PM
Pacer bigs should beat the **** out of the nets. Rebounding is what will help them
Destroy the nets IMO. They will make ECF and lose to Miami again imo

sunsfan88
03-25-2014, 12:06 AM
Hibbert is just overpaid.