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View Full Version : Are the Rockets serious title contenders?



Hulk6
03-08-2014, 01:22 AM
They have been on an absolute tear as of late and just dismantled what some people think, the best team in the nba. How far can you see them going?

jerellh528
03-08-2014, 01:25 AM
It's possible. They are contenders, but I would still take the chances of 5 or 6 teams over them.

torocan
03-08-2014, 01:53 AM
It depends on what you define as "serious".

Are they one of the 6 or 7 teams that have a legitimate shot at a championship this year? I'd say yes. OKC, SAS, Miami and the Pacers are in there for sure. Then you can toss in the Clippers, Rockets and possibly GSW depending on how you like their team composition and balance.

Once you get past those teams, it's pretty hard to say with a straight face that you can see another team in the CF's or Finals let alone winning. Toronto? Nets? Suns? Portland? Long shots in my opinion.

Clippers, Rockets and possibly GSW can beat any team any given night due to their offense. Rockets and GSW have legitimate top 10 defenses. And if you go mainly off regular season record, then you're talking Clippers and Rockets.

However, given that this is their FIRST year with Howard in the line up, I wouldn't be shocked at any number of outcomes... whether that's a WCF appearance or elimination in the 1st or 2nd round, especially since they'll most likely be facing off against the Clippers, Portland or GSW in the 1st round. It's going to be a real dogfight for the 3-6 seeds in the 1st round in the West.

As for Portland, I just don't have any faith in them as a team in the play offs due to their mediocre defense and lack of bench depth. No offense to Portland fans.. I just think that they're a couple key rotation players away from being a legitimate championship contender.

KniCks4LiFe
03-08-2014, 02:05 AM
As of January 1st, you damn skippy.

mightybosstone
03-08-2014, 02:10 AM
It depends on what you define as "serious".

Are they one of the 6 or 7 teams that have a legitimate shot at a championship this year? I'd say yes. OKC, SAS, Miami and the Pacers are in there for sure. Then you can toss in the Clippers, Rockets and possibly GSW depending on how you like their team composition and balance.

Once you get past those teams, it's pretty hard to say with a straight face that you can see another team in the CF's or Finals let alone winning. Toronto? Nets? Suns? Portland? Long shots in my opinion.

Clippers, Rockets and possibly GSW can beat any team any given night due to their offense. Rockets and GSW have legitimate top 10 defenses. And if you go mainly off regular season record, then you're talking Clippers and Rockets.

However, given that this is their FIRST year with Howard in the line up, I wouldn't be shocked at any number of outcomes... whether that's a WCF appearance or elimination in the 1st or 2nd round, especially since they'll most likely be facing off against the Clippers, Portland or GSW in the 1st round. It's going to be a real dogfight for the 3-6 seeds in the 1st round in the West.

As for Portland, I just don't have any faith in them as a team in the play offs due to their mediocre defense and lack of bench depth. No offense to Portland fans.. I just think that they're a couple key rotation players away from being a legitimate championship contender.

This is a very fair assessment, and I pretty much agree with this whole post. The Rockets should certainly be considered legitimate contenders, but considering their youth and the depth of the West, a 1st or 2nd round exit isn't out of the question. They're a damn good basketball team, though, and when you consider how well managed the roster is and how long they have together, there's no doubt this team will have the chance to compete for titles over the next five years.

nastynice
03-08-2014, 02:25 AM
It depends on what you define as "serious".

Are they one of the 6 or 7 teams that have a legitimate shot at a championship this year? I'd say yes. OKC, SAS, Miami and the Pacers are in there for sure. Then you can toss in the Clippers, Rockets and possibly GSW depending on how you like their team composition and balance.

Pretty much sums up how I view it.

In a one word answer, I say yes

shep33
03-08-2014, 02:34 AM
I mean, they're probably one of the best 6 teams in the NBA. Right now out west I think I would take the Spurs, OKC, and the Clips over them. Out east, I also think Miami and Indy are still better teams as well. Indy is going through a rough patch, but they were destined to have one sooner or later.

Chronz
03-08-2014, 03:25 AM
In just about any other era, they are, but in the stacked West, its possible to be a Finals caliber team yet lose in R.1. The Rockets have been that team many times in the past.

brandt
03-09-2014, 12:26 AM
Their next 4 games are against Portland, OKC, Chicago and Miami. The last 3 of those are away. If they can get 3 of those 4, then I might start believing that they are contenders.

Baller1
03-09-2014, 12:28 AM
Yes.

KnickaBocka.44
03-09-2014, 12:28 AM
The short answer is yes.

WES KOAST
03-09-2014, 12:52 AM
yeah but harden gots to play d n howard gots to have a post up n hit ft's.

WES KOAST
03-09-2014, 12:57 AM
I mean, they're probably one of the best 6 teams in the NBA. Right now out west I think I would take the Spurs, OKC, and the Clips over them. Out east, I also think Miami and Indy are still better teams as well. Indy is going through a rough patch, but they were destined to have one sooner or later.

I like the rockets more than the clips. the rox are gaining speed at the right time of the season + they healthy.

Memphis gonna cause sum trouble in the west, either suns or dallas will be out, maybe dallas since Bledsoe coming back.

tor, wash, chi playing sum solid out east

John Walls Era
03-09-2014, 05:29 AM
Yes, but I highly doubt they will win.

4 key factors (ordered most to least important):
1) Dwight: Hard to trust in the 4th. Inconsistent, clearly lost explosiveness since his Magic days.

2) Kevin Mcchale: AKA Mcfail. In the playoffs, every detail needs to be perfected. Given his lack of playoff experience as a HC and his past failures, he will need to get the team mentally and tactically prepared --- something I doubt.

3) PG play... their biggest weakness. The inconsistencies of both Beverley and Lin needs to be fixed.

4) Terrence Jones - Lack of experience may hurt.


Basically the only player I trust is Harden.

monty77
03-09-2014, 06:55 AM
They are a good team and they will be even better in the coming years, but they aren't ready to win the championship currently. They have set its two cornerstone, a top 10 players in the league such as Harden and Howard. This is the first step, because I bet there would be good players in the NBA who join him "to lower price" in order to get a ring.

Along with these players, there are others in the roster, such as T.Jones and Parson who must remain in the team too. Unless Howard (28), them all are under 25, so they could play together around 8 years without no problem. They have plenty of chances to reach championship in the future, everyone knows it.

While they improve roster, system, experience and confidence, there will be other team which go further in playoffs. I think that Clippers are in the same position as Rockets, because its team aren't mature enough to fight for the title (they have older players but they haven't consolidate the system yet: new coach).

I am speaking about Oklahoma and San Antonio. They are my favorite contender team in the West, but there are two teams which I would place over Houston at this point: Warriors and Grizzlies (I fell sorry for Blazers' fan, but they need experience in the playoffs to succeed).

The next year we'll see a deeper team, just like Clippers this year, after some players join the team through C.Paul and Griffin tandem. This will be the second step to the glory. They must obtain quality, veteran players and good defenders too in order to beat Miami in the Championship finals. They lack both things this year and I don't expect they get over 2nd playoff round at best.

tredigs
03-09-2014, 07:25 AM
Like the Warriors and Clippers, I wouldn't be surprised if they lose in round 1 or compete in the Western Conference Finals. They're a very good team, but I don't trust either Harden or Howard in a Finals series. So, there's that.

Goose17
03-09-2014, 07:39 AM
It depends on what you define as "serious".

Are they one of the 6 or 7 teams that have a legitimate shot at a championship this year? I'd say yes. OKC, SAS, Miami and the Pacers are in there for sure. Then you can toss in the Clippers, Rockets and possibly GSW depending on how you like their team composition and balance.

Once you get past those teams, it's pretty hard to say with a straight face that you can see another team in the CF's or Finals let alone winning. Toronto? Nets? Suns? Portland? Long shots in my opinion.

Clippers, Rockets and possibly GSW can beat any team any given night due to their offense. Rockets and GSW have legitimate top 10 defenses. And if you go mainly off regular season record, then you're talking Clippers and Rockets.

However, given that this is their FIRST year with Howard in the line up, I wouldn't be shocked at any number of outcomes... whether that's a WCF appearance or elimination in the 1st or 2nd round, especially since they'll most likely be facing off against the Clippers, Portland or GSW in the 1st round. It's going to be a real dogfight for the 3-6 seeds in the 1st round in the West.

As for Portland, I just don't have any faith in them as a team in the play offs due to their mediocre defense and lack of bench depth. No offense to Portland fans.. I just think that they're a couple key rotation players away from being a legitimate championship contender.

End of discussion^


One thing is for certain, Rockets are going to be a very high caliber regular season team for years to come if they can maintain their core and continue to add depth.

moshy2
03-09-2014, 11:05 AM
I agree with the masses. They're contenders, but the West is so stacked that a first round exit is as likely as a CF or Finals appearance

tr3ymill3r
03-09-2014, 11:29 AM
The West is so fickle that the Rockets could win the championship, but could be bounced in the first round as well. I won't assign percentages, but rather put the teams in order that have the best chance of winning the title this year, Heat, Thunder, Spurs, Pacers, Clippers/Rockets, Warriors

ManRam
03-09-2014, 01:14 PM
The West is tough, but they're contenders as much as any team in the West is outside of OKC and maybe SAS. They're improving daily at this point, as probably expected with the new pieces.

Since the start of February they're matching a 115.1 ORtg with a 104.3 DRtg...that's MIGHTY impressive. Playing as good as anyone, along with the Clippers.

The West is tough, but I'd say the odds between OKC, SAS, HOU and LAC making it out differ marginally. They're all "serious title contenders".

Tony_Starks
03-09-2014, 05:52 PM
Nope. Perhaps next year with a legit PG and a year of more playoff experience

Asik's better
03-09-2014, 06:16 PM
I try to avoid these threads but I have to clear up a misconception a couple posters raise. The rockets don't need an upgrade at PG. Bevs is a solid pg who people still underrate. What the rockets need is Dmo or jones to bulk up so they can gaurd the bigger 4's. Also the rockets need the bench to step up and be more consistent. That's what is holding the rockets back from taking that next step, not Bevs.

rhino17
03-09-2014, 06:17 PM
I think there are 6 contenders right now that could all potentially win it all

Miami
Indiana
San Antonio
OKC
Houston
LA Clippers

Portland could very easily make the WCF but I dont think they cant win a championship without z little more



Nope. Perhaps next year with a legit PG and a year of more playoff experience

Maybe a legit BACKUP PG, because idk why they would get rid of Bev any time soon. He may be the best defensive PG in the NBA and hits 3s at a decent enough clip. He fits the system perfects. The Rockets dont need a true playmaking PG with Harden and Parsons running most of the offense. Lin on the other hand definitely needs to be replaced, the guy sucks.

ManRam
03-09-2014, 06:22 PM
Nope. Perhaps next year with a legit PG and a year of more playoff experience

Why do they need a "legit" PG? I think it's pretty clear those things aren't needed. Bevs is a perfect fit as a role player for what they have around him, and Lin is an above average backup.

Sactown
03-09-2014, 06:23 PM
In the stacked west it seems anyone can make it out, it's about staying healthy at this point and matchups, whoever gets hot at the right time will make it out IMO

nastynice
03-09-2014, 06:27 PM
Like the Warriors and Clippers, I wouldn't be surprised if they lose in round 1 or compete in the Western Conference Finals. They're a very good team, but I don't trust either Harden or Howard in a Finals series. So, there's that.

why is that?

They're both in completely different situations now, and have just been completely different players with different load to carry compared to each of their previous deep playoff runs. They've been showing themselves to be legitimate threats in their current situation, I see no reason to all of a sudden expect them to just drop the ball in a big series like WCF or Finals.

nastynice
03-09-2014, 06:28 PM
Why do they need a "legit" PG? I think it's pretty clear those things aren't needed. Bevs is a perfect fit as a role player for what they have around him, and Lin is an above average backup.

x2. What they need is an upgrade at SG. Harden's trash

ManRam
03-09-2014, 06:33 PM
x2. What they need is an upgrade at SG. Harden's trash

This site never fails to disappoint.


:sigh:

Iron24th
03-09-2014, 06:33 PM
More pretenders than contenders imo, there are still 5 better teams: indy, miami, SA, OKC, LAC.

Tony_Starks
03-09-2014, 08:57 PM
I think there are 6 contenders right now that could all potentially win it all

Miami
Indiana
San Antonio
OKC
Houston
LA Clippers

Portland could very easily make the WCF but I dont think they cant win a championship without z little more




Maybe a legit BACKUP PG, because idk why they would get rid of Bev any time soon. He may be the best defensive PG in the NBA and hits 3s at a decent enough clip. He fits the system perfects. The Rockets dont need a true playmaking PG with Harden and Parsons running most of the offense. Lin on the other hand definitely needs to be replaced, the guy sucks.

Beverly would be a perfect backup. Great defender but not much of a difference maker offensively. You're not beating the Lillards, CP3's, Westbrooks....etc etc of the world with him as your starting pg.

Doesn't make his man work hard enough on the other end. And Lin is just not very good at all..

John Walls Era
03-09-2014, 08:59 PM
Kevin Mcfail sucks.

lamzoka
03-09-2014, 09:13 PM
They're whatever and 0 vs the east including pacers and heat.

John Walls Era
03-09-2014, 09:21 PM
They're whatever and 0 vs the east including pacers and heat.

I guess thats too bad. Cuz they're in the West.

ManRam
03-09-2014, 09:21 PM
Kevin Mcfail sucks.

I think he's been doing better as the year has gone on. He's seemed to find some better and more consistent rotations. He's doing a great job of enforcing the don't-ever-take-deep-twos strategy that assuredly has come from the higher ups, and thus they've been hyper efficient offensively. They've figured things out a bit better defensively. The team's pacing has been better lately. Playing Bevs over Lin has been the right move. He hasn't quite gotten Harden to buy into playing defense, and who knows if anyone can, but whatever.

It's a rare thing you and I have agreed upon, but I have to give him some props here. He's doing better.

NBA_Starter
03-09-2014, 10:22 PM
I think they are.

sammyvine
03-09-2014, 10:24 PM
For all the taik about Kevin Mchale being very bad their record is very good considering its their firs year together. 3rd seed in the west and can potentially even catch Okc and Spurs.

He can't be that bad and winning all these games.

Sssmush
03-09-2014, 10:28 PM
No.

And they are peaking at the wrong time.

Second round playoffs is about right.

Sssmush
03-09-2014, 10:29 PM
They'll get a "surprisingly" tough first round series; if they make it past that, I'd consider them definite underdogs in their second round series, whoever they play.

John Walls Era
03-09-2014, 10:29 PM
For all the taik about Kevin Mchale being very bad their record is very good considering its their firs year together. 3rd seed in the west and can potentially even catch Okc and Spurs.

He can't be that bad and winning all these games.

Because we've seen him before...

I'm sorry if expectations are so low for a team with Harden and Dwight.

Tony_Starks
03-09-2014, 10:40 PM
For all the taik about Kevin Mchale being very bad their record is very good considering its their firs year together. 3rd seed in the west and can potentially even catch Okc and Spurs.

He can't be that bad and winning all these games.

He catches a lot of flack but he does a pretty good job with the roster they have.

Asik's better
03-09-2014, 10:42 PM
Because we've seen him before...

I'm sorry if expectations are so low for a team with Harden and Dwight.
The way you talk about Mchale the rockets should only have 19 wins not 44.

DreamShaker
03-09-2014, 11:10 PM
Nothing would surprise me. Depends a lot on playoff matchups. They have been good against everyone but OKC and the Clippers. Two really bad matchups.

FOBolous
03-09-2014, 11:19 PM
There's nothing wrong with Houston's PG rotation. At the 4 tho...offensively we're fine but defensively...man

DreamShaker
03-09-2014, 11:23 PM
I think he's been doing better as the year has gone on. He's seemed to find some better and more consistent rotations. He's doing a great job of enforcing the don't-ever-take-deep-twos strategy that assuredly has come from the higher ups, and thus they've been hyper efficient offensively. They've figured things out a bit better defensively. The team's pacing has been better lately. Playing Bevs over Lin has been the right move. He hasn't quite gotten Harden to buy into playing defense, and who knows if anyone can, but whatever.

It's a rare thing you and I have agreed upon, but I have to give him some props here. He's doing better.

Harden is so weird on D. He can play lock down post D on big guys, which he has done every time he's asked. He is also really good at anticipating passes and turning steals into fast breaks. He does that a bunch. He also can block jumpers frequently.

That being said...he just gives up fighting through screens or staying in front of his man WAY too much. That's where the blooper reals and face palms kick in. He is also horrible at close outs and doesn't even put a hand up to contest. Both he and the Rockets have gotten better at that (which isn't saying much). He's turning corners, but he needs to D up more if the Rockets want to be champions, no doubt.

xxfresh
03-09-2014, 11:26 PM
x2. What they need is an upgrade at SG. Harden's trash

That 41/10/6/6 stat is sufficient but that's just my opinion

DreamShaker
03-09-2014, 11:26 PM
There's nothing wrong with Houston's PG rotation. At the 4 tho...offensively we're fine but defensively...man

D-Mo can play well in stretches...but Jones needs to hit the weights. Watching him try to guard Z-Bo and guys like that is painful. He makes them look like Shaq.

3RDASYSTEM
03-09-2014, 11:27 PM
They are a good team and they will be even better in the coming years, but they aren't ready to win the championship currently. They have set its two cornerstone, a top 10 players in the league such as Harden and Howard. This is the first step, because I bet there would be good players in the NBA who join him "to lower price" in order to get a ring.

Along with these players, there are others in the roster, such as T.Jones and Parson who must remain in the team too. Unless Howard (28), them all are under 25, so they could play together around 8 years without no problem. They have plenty of chances to reach championship in the future, everyone knows it.

While they improve roster, system, experience and confidence, there will be other team which go further in playoffs. I think that Clippers are in the same position as Rockets, because its team aren't mature enough to fight for the title (they have older players but they haven't consolidate the system yet: new coach).

I am speaking about Oklahoma and San Antonio. They are my favorite contender team in the West, but there are two teams which I would place over Houston at this point: Warriors and Grizzlies (I fell sorry for Blazers' fan, but they need experience in the playoffs to succeed).

The next year we'll see a deeper team, just like Clippers this year, after some players join the team through C.Paul and Griffin tandem. This will be the second step to the glory. They must obtain quality, veteran players and good defenders too in order to beat Miami in the Championship finals. They lack both things this year and I don't expect they get over 2nd playoff round at best.

You do understand that HOWARD has already led a team to Finals in 09' got robbed in 11'(or BRON) for mvp of the league and now Is healthy and has a team that finished 8th seed and now has a chance to a top 3 and possible 2 seed are not legit contenders for title right now? add along the fact HARDEN has tasted finals in 11' making it 2 players with title rd experience within the past 5 yrs

if they aren't contending for title for next 3yrs then I don't understand what they are playing for, plus PARSONS will get paid somewhere between RONDO and M GASOL money, 3 max type players is ship material, in any era and since this is the weakest era they have a real strong shot, WEST is deep but not 08' deep in my eyes

FOBolous
03-09-2014, 11:27 PM
That 41/10/6/6 stat is sufficient but that's just my opinion

well your opinion is WRONG (according to Warriors fans :p)

3RDASYSTEM
03-09-2014, 11:33 PM
D-Mo can play well in stretches...but Jones needs to hit the weights. Watching him try to guard Z-Bo and guys like that is painful. He makes them look like Shaq.

Not only that but JONES was a guard before he hit growth spurt I heard, its reason why he can ignite the break and pass with intelligence, he has guard skills while guys like Z BO was a bona fide banger bruiser at MICH STATE, plus I seen him bang with the 4x DPOY in B WALLACE and held his own plenty, that's not JONES game so its reason why hitting weights wont help, its the style that is to blame ,not the strength because weight or no weights Z BO is banging and bruising whoever down low along with that 2 inch vertical that seems to work everytime for most part

Trwood12
03-09-2014, 11:36 PM
They have my vote unless the T-Wolves somehow make it (I can dream right)

FOBolous
03-09-2014, 11:37 PM
Not only that but JONES was a guard before he hit growth spurt I heard, its reason why he can ignite the break and pass with intelligence, he has guard skills while guys like Z BO was a bona fide banger bruiser at MICH STATE, plus I seen him bang with the 4x DPOY in B WALLACE and held his own plenty, that's not JONES game so its reason why hitting weights wont help, its the style that is to blame ,not the strength because weight or no weights Z BO is banging and bruising whoever down low along with that 2 inch vertical that seems to work everytime for most part

i think guarding post players is easier than guarding guards. hitting the weights and bulking up will definitely help.

3RDASYSTEM
03-09-2014, 11:40 PM
Kevin Mcfail sucks.

He's no LARRY BROWN but damn he didn't inherit a KD/RUSS combo like BROOKS did, has he under or over achieved with the roster he inherited? weren't they in 4th seed before HARDEN got hurt last yr and fell to 8th? aren't they in contention with SPURS for top seed right now being 2 1/2 games out? sitting 3rd with new player to install new playing style while still remaining a run and gun type and add all the injuries they have been hit with how is he MCFAIL again?

some of you one here have no completely no clue on playing the game, ranking a player and now it has gone on to the coache

HYFR
03-09-2014, 11:48 PM
I think Dwight has to play like the Dwight we saw during his run to the finals for them to have a shot in the west.

Tony_Starks
03-09-2014, 11:52 PM
I think Dwight has to play like the Dwight we saw during his run to the finals for them to have a shot in the west.

Yeah, ain't gonna happen buddy! Lest we forget there was no KG that year, Boston had their number...

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 12:19 AM
The way you talk about Mchale the rockets should only have 19 wins not 44.

I think people severely underrate the Rocket's talent. They have a really solid 7 guy rotation. Given the Rockets squad, I would've projected they be a top 4 team in the West (with any coach). A good/great coach would get them to the next level.


He's no LARRY BROWN but damn he didn't inherit a KD/RUSS combo like BROOKS did, has he under or over achieved with the roster he inherited? weren't they in 4th seed before HARDEN got hurt last yr and fell to 8th? aren't they in contention with SPURS for top seed right now being 2 1/2 games out? sitting 3rd with new player to install new playing style while still remaining a run and gun type and add all the injuries they have been hit with how is he MCFAIL again?

some of you one here have no completely no clue on playing the game, ranking a player and now it has gone on to the coache

Some of you on here need to learn how to spell and structure sentences properly so people can understand them.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 12:24 AM
He's no LARRY BROWN but damn he didn't inherit a KD/RUSS combo like BROOKS did, has he under or over achieved with the roster he inherited? weren't they in 4th seed before HARDEN got hurt last yr and fell to 8th? aren't they in contention with SPURS for top seed right now being 2 1/2 games out? sitting 3rd with new player to install new playing style while still remaining a run and gun type and add all the injuries they have been hit with how is he MCFAIL again?

some of you one here have no completely no clue on playing the game, ranking a player and now it has gone on to the coache

Ignoring that crap of a sentence you wrote at the end.


Spurs play bench players and win games. Spurs don't really care about the regular season. Those 2 teams don't belong in the same sentence and comparing them to a Spurs team in the regular season is stupid.

Mcchale has been a huge failure outside of being a player, thats who he has been: Mcfail.

Rockets should be a top 4 team. Anyone can coach them to this record.

Rockets have been pretty healthy, outside a few games with Harden out.

mightybosstone
03-10-2014, 12:44 AM
Ignoring that crap of a sentence you wrote at the end.


Spurs play bench players and win games. Spurs don't really care about the regular season. Those 2 teams don't belong in the same sentence and comparing them to a Spurs team in the regular season is stupid.

Mcchale has been a huge failure outside of being a player, thats who he has been: Mcfail.

Rockets should be a top 4 team. Anyone can coach them to this record.

Rockets have been pretty healthy, outside a few games with Harden out.

You're like a broken record, except it's one no one wanted to hear in the first place and everyone wishes would just shut the **** up.

You can say what you will about "McFail," but the team is playing for him and they're winning games. His rotations have improved significantly as the season has gone on, and guys like playing for him. I've also noticed a considerable improvement in Dwight's offensive post game as the season has progressed, which I think McHale deserves at least some credit for. The team's defense has also taken a big step forward the last half of the year, and the Rockets young bigs (Jones, Motiejunas) have improved dramatically over last season.

Yes. This Rockets team is talented. But let's not act like talent alone wins games or pretend like Harden and Howard are doing it entirely themselves without any help from anybody else. Is McHale one of the best coaches in the league? No, and no one is pretending that he is. But ripping on the guy right now when the Rockets have been the best team in the NBA in 2014 is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Pick your spots, bro. This isn't one of them.

FOBolous
03-10-2014, 12:48 AM
You're like a broken record, except it's one no one wanted to hear in the first place and everyone wishes would just shut the **** up.

You can say what you will about "McFail," but the team is playing for him and they're winning games. His rotations have improved significantly as the season has gone on, and guys like playing for him. I've also noticed a considerable improvement in Dwight's offensive post game as the season has progressed, which I think McHale deserves at least some credit for. The team's defense has also taken a big step forward the last half of the year, and the Rockets young bigs (Jones, Motiejunas) have improved dramatically over last season.

Yes. This Rockets team is talented. But let's not act like talent alone wins games or pretend like Harden and Howard are doing it entirely themselves without any help from anybody else. Is McHale one of the best coaches in the league? No, and no one is pretending that he is. But ripping on the guy right now when the Rockets have been the best team in the NBA in 2014 is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Pick your spots, bro. This isn't one of them.

dude just ignore him. obvious troll is obvious. him along with farren.louis are two users that all Rockets fans should have on their ignore list.

slashsnake
03-10-2014, 03:45 AM
Ignoring that crap of a sentence you wrote at the end.


Spurs play bench players and win games. Spurs don't really care about the regular season. Those 2 teams don't belong in the same sentence and comparing them to a Spurs team in the regular season is stupid.

Mcchale has been a huge failure outside of being a player, thats who he has been: Mcfail.

Rockets should be a top 4 team. Anyone can coach them to this record.

Rockets have been pretty healthy, outside a few games with Harden out.

I'd say to have the same record as the Heat in a much tougher conference is pretty good. To still be within 3 games of the #1 record in the NBA is a lot more than I would have expected of them in year 1. How they are playing of late especially, they could win 60 games this year.

You look at the pairing of Melo and Amare, Duncan and Robinson, Blake and CP3, Kobe and Dwight and they couldn't win 60. Heck, even Shaq and Kobe only hit 60 once in their run of finals. Why should this team be expected to be better than them? It took Popovich 6 years to put up a 60 win season with Duncan (with a young Duncan they weren't resting).

Maybe your point is that Dwight is just so exponentially better than Duncan ever was that Mchale is a failure if he doesn't hit 60+ and blow away what the Spurs were able to accomplish with that talent there, but that's your thought there. I think he's just coaching really well.

On the injuries they have been mostly healthy, but Asik has missed half the year, Lin and Beverly both missed 10+ games... I think Dwight is the only guy who has played in every game for them this year. Their #1 starting lineup has only played 27 games this season together, and they've fielded 11 different lineups (more than OKC or LAC). So sure, mostly healthy, but not out of the norm healthy.

Not sure why you hate McHale, personally having a winning record in the west on a team led by Scola and Kevin Martin is a success in my book.

He wasn't good in Minnesota but they weren't good, and are about the worst destination for an NBA player to spend his winter. I guess you could say him choosing Kevin Garnett instead of Big Country Reeves was a better choice than anyone else for that franchise has ever made though. To me, that wasn't a fail.

I'd say getting Kevin Love for OJ Mayo was a choice I would put on the non-fail side of things as well.

I think those two things are probably the #1 and #2 moves any GM has ever made in Minnesota.

Sorry but I have to buy into the general consensus on your opinion here that everyone else is stating. Not sure if it is trolling, having no clue, or what, but yeah, if Jerry Sloan could only coach Stockton and Malone to three 60 win seasons in their entire time together, expecting McHale to hit that same level of success in the FIRST season his big two are together is pretty impressive.

rhino17
03-10-2014, 03:51 AM
Beverly would be a perfect backup. Great defender but not much of a difference maker offensively. You're not beating the Lillards, CP3's, Westbrooks....etc etc of the world with him as your starting pg.

Doesn't make his man work hard enough on the other end. And Lin is just not very good at all..

Not really. You don't want a pg taking the ball out of harden or parsons hands. Bev guards any of hose pbs better than anyone in the nba and he plays plenty fine on offense. He isn't inept. He hits 3s and floaters routinely, scoring and playmaking is not asked of him. He could put up 15ppg if he had to. And since when do the gpa you mention win rings? Role players like Bev are the typical championship pg

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 04:01 AM
You're like a broken record, except it's one no one wanted to hear in the first place and everyone wishes would just shut the **** up.

You can say what you will about "McFail," but the team is playing for him and they're winning games. His rotations have improved significantly as the season has gone on, and guys like playing for him. I've also noticed a considerable improvement in Dwight's offensive post game as the season has progressed, which I think McHale deserves at least some credit for. The team's defense has also taken a big step forward the last half of the year, and the Rockets young bigs (Jones, Motiejunas) have improved dramatically over last season.

Yes. This Rockets team is talented. But let's not act like talent alone wins games or pretend like Harden and Howard are doing it entirely themselves without any help from anybody else. Is McHale one of the best coaches in the league? No, and no one is pretending that he is. But ripping on the guy right now when the Rockets have been the best team in the NBA in 2014 is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Pick your spots, bro. This isn't one of them.

Yup Mcchale is a god. Induct him into the HOF.

I'm sorry if my nickname for his horrendous coaching resume offends you. Too bad. idgaf. Rockets should be this good. Anything less during the regular season is a failure. Playoffs is where he will be rejudged, regular season is meaningless.

Hes always Mcfail until he proves otherwise.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 04:02 AM
I think Dwight has to play like the Dwight we saw during his run to the finals for them to have a shot in the west.

That Dwight was a monster. He was dunking on people and was almost unstoppable 1 v 1. Last game vs. Clippers, Jordan was enough to stop Dwight.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 04:06 AM
dude just ignore him. obvious troll is obvious. him along with farren.louis are two users that all Rockets fans should have on their ignore list.

People tend to be more angry when they're wrong and the other person is always right. I get it. I don't lose sleep over some guy [maybe girl] blocking me on a sports forum.

I try to shed some facts (which has never been proved wrong -- because the homers can't find anyway to rebuttal) to the blind witnesses. But its a lost cause.

Asik's better
03-10-2014, 04:35 AM
Yup Mcchale is a god. Induct him into the HOF.

I'm sorry if my nickname for his horrendous coaching resume offends you. Too bad. idgaf. Rockets should be this good. Anything less during the regular season is a failure. Playoffs is where he will be rejudged, regular season is meaningless.

Hes always Mcfail until he proves otherwise.
1. He never said he was god. He just said Mchale has improved as a coach and doing a good job. Also he is already in the hof so don't know what point your making.
2. If Mchale is as bad as you and other people on this site make him out to be, the rockets wouldn't be the 3rd seed and the rockets wouldn't of beaten the pacers, heat and blazers in the same week.

Ebbs
03-10-2014, 09:51 AM
Yea they are. They are a well balanced team. They have clear roles which has led to good chemistry.

sep11ie
03-10-2014, 10:02 AM
Yup Mcchale is a god. Induct him into the HOF.

I'm sorry if my nickname for his horrendous coaching resume offends you. Too bad. idgaf. Rockets should be this good. Anything less during the regular season is a failure. Playoffs is where he will be rejudged, regular season is meaningless.

Hes always Mcfail until he proves otherwise.

They already did...

pebloemer
03-10-2014, 10:03 AM
They certainly have the talent to contend, so they should be taken seriously. But with a stacked West, it will be a tall order for any team to get through.

I still like the veteran consistency of the Spurs as the favourite out West, with the Clippers and OKC on their heels. Houston is strong enough to be considered a contender, but I'd be surprised to see them in the finals in their first year together given the strength of the conference.

hotdalton18
03-10-2014, 10:06 AM
I think the rockets will make the finals

I just can't see us losing with the big 3 in it's prime

mightybosstone
03-10-2014, 10:11 AM
They already did...
:laugh:

You, sir, just made him look very foolish.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 02:27 PM
They already did...

I think I always gave him props as a player.

Typically in a discussion, people understand the scope of context. Not surprised.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 02:30 PM
Rockets fans are getting very butthurt atm. You can tell. They can't dispute the facts.

Despite my lack of faith in Kevin Mcfail, I think the Rockets might be able to win it all if Dwight plays at 100%, which hasn't been seen yet.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 02:31 PM
Who are the morons that said Lin was bad backup? Hes more than above average as a backup.

JetRocketAngel
03-10-2014, 02:59 PM
Who are the morons that said Lin was bad backup? Hes more than above average as a backup.

He's above average as a starter too. But not for the Rockets as they are currently built. I was all for Beverly starting even though I'm a huge Lin fan.

Lin's last two weeks have been caused by injuries that aren't reported. He's had a bad back and he has had a shooting hand injury of some kind (he was shaking out his hand many times).

He's played like himself in the last two games.

Asik's better
03-10-2014, 04:39 PM
Rockets fans are getting very butthurt atm. You can tell. They can't dispute the facts.

Despite my lack of faith in Kevin Mcfail, I think the Rockets might be able to win it all if Dwight plays at 100%, which hasn't been seen yet.

What facts? Calling Mchale "McFail" isn't a fact.

KnicksorBust
03-10-2014, 04:42 PM
I still wish they had traded Asik. They over-valued him when it could have gotten them a key asset to put them over the top...

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 04:52 PM
What facts? Calling Mchale "McFail" isn't a fact.

Looking at his coaching and front office resume is enough.

houstonfan
03-10-2014, 05:03 PM
I still wish they had traded Asik. They over-valued him when it could have gotten them a key asset to put them over the top...

Im actually okay with us keeping him. He is giving us 15 mpg of solid defense and rebounding when Dwight needs a break. If we have to play Memphis in the playoffs also we will maybe even play him with Dwight. Obviously you dont want to be paying a guy 15 million next year to be a backup center, but without him or Dwight in we are a horrible defensive team

torocan
03-10-2014, 05:21 PM
Im actually okay with us keeping him. He is giving us 15 mpg of solid defense and rebounding when Dwight needs a break. If we have to play Memphis in the playoffs also we will maybe even play him with Dwight. Obviously you dont want to be paying a guy 15 million next year to be a backup center, but without him or Dwight in we are a horrible defensive team

15 mpg underestimates Asik's impact. Asik's presence allows Dwight to play fearless defense because he KNOWS that even if he gets in foul trouble, the defensive drop off isn't very large.

Portland is a much harder game without Asik to cover for Dwight after his 2nd foul 4 minutes into the game. And there will be multiple games like that.

Yes, Asik is a luxury at $8.3M for a back up center, but if you're going to push for a championship it's probably a price tag you can live with if he's willing to play the role for the rest of his contract or until a favorable trade arrives.

houstonfan
03-10-2014, 05:28 PM
15 mpg underestimates Asik's impact. Asik's presence allows Dwight to play fearless defense because he KNOWS that even if he gets in foul trouble, the defensive drop off isn't very large.

Portland is a much harder game without Asik to cover for Dwight after his 2nd foul 4 minutes into the game. And there will be multiple games like that.

Yes, Asik is a luxury at $8.3M for a back up center, but if you're going to push for a championship it's probably a price tag you can live with if he's willing to play the role for the rest of his contract or until a favorable trade arrives.

Agreed. He is extremely valuable. If Greg Smith is our backup center going into the playoffs, I dont like our chances.

Blitzace137
03-10-2014, 05:42 PM
^^ Yea I think Asik will come up big for you guys in the playoffs, might be one of Morey's best non moves.

KnicksorBust
03-10-2014, 05:50 PM
15 mpg underestimates Asik's impact. Asik's presence allows Dwight to play fearless defense because he KNOWS that even if he gets in foul trouble, the defensive drop off isn't very large.

Portland is a much harder game without Asik to cover for Dwight after his 2nd foul 4 minutes into the game. And there will be multiple games like that.

Yes, Asik is a luxury at $8.3M for a back up center, but if you're going to push for a championship it's probably a price tag you can live with if he's willing to play the role for the rest of his contract or until a favorable trade arrives.

I've seen some stretches of reality before but giving Omer Asik's *** sitting on the bench credit for Dwight Howard playing better on defense is a new one.

torocan
03-10-2014, 05:58 PM
I've seen some stretches of reality before but giving Omer Asik's *** sitting on the bench credit for Dwight Howard playing better on defense is a new one.

Look at it this way. If you're the starting center for a team and pick up a BS ticky tack foul in the first few minutes, and you KNOW that you'll be benched if you pick up a 2nd foul, do you change your game? Or do you risk being benched for much of the first half?

Players in foul trouble defend differently, Especially key starters. That's a FACT in the NBA.

Good teams attack players in foul trouble because nobody wants to spend most of a game sitting on the bench.

However, if you KNOW there's a really good back up behind you would you be willing to gamble more? To keep playing your game?

Think about how many games it cost LA last year because Howard got in foul trouble and ended up on the bench. And how many games Howard was in foul trouble and couldn't aggressively contest for fear of being benched.

I don't consider that a stretch of reality at all...

Asik's better
03-10-2014, 06:02 PM
Looking at his coaching and front office resume is enough.
His coaching resume this season isn't bad and his front office resume has nothing to do with his coaching this season.

Saddletramp
03-10-2014, 06:10 PM
Rockets fans are getting very butthurt atm. You can tell. They can't dispute the facts



What facts? Calling Mchale "McFail" isn't a fact.

Facts like taking a team with Luis Scola and Kevin Martin as your best players and Samuel Dalembert as your center to just over a .500 record in the loaded West in his first year; taking a brand new team to the playoffs that had second year man Chandler Parsons as the guy with the longest tenure on the team when he was just in his second year; leading this team with three new starters to within three games of the best record in the league in his third year.

You know, facts.

ManRam
03-10-2014, 06:32 PM
Usually when people use 3rd grade level insults like "McFail", especially touting it so proudly and frequently, well...they've abandoned all hope of ever being objective. I'd just let him think what he wants and not waste the time.

John Walls Era
03-10-2014, 07:17 PM
Usually when people use 3rd grade level insults like "McFail", especially touting it so proudly and frequently, well...they've abandoned all hope of ever being objective. I'd just let him think what he wants and not waste the time.

Do you know what objectivity is? Look at the facts. He has been an utter failure as a coach and GM. He has had 1.5 ok seasons so far. Is he still an overall failure? Yup. Is he getting better? Yes.

Why don't you fight fire with fire and bring some actual facts like I do. I haven't made up anything. They're all in the record books.



His coaching resume this season isn't bad and his front office resume has nothing to do with his coaching this season.

This season hes been ok/good. Overall still a failure. He needs at least 1 more great season before he sheds that label. I'd call MJ a failure as an owner too... just because Bobcats are decent this year doesn't mean he hasn't been one.

mightybosstone
03-10-2014, 11:46 PM
Do you know what objectivity is? Look at the facts. He has been an utter failure as a coach and GM. He has had 1.5 ok seasons so far. Is he still an overall failure? Yup. Is he getting better? Yes.

Why don't you fight fire with fire and bring some actual facts like I do. I haven't made up anything. They're all in the record books.
Okay then, smart guy. Here are some facts about Kevin McHale's coaching career:

1. McHale's teams as a coach have a .531 record.
2. Four of the five years McHale has coached, his teams had a record over .500.
3. McHale only coached one sub .500 team: the 2008-2009 Wolves.
4. Not a single player on that team posted a WS/48 over .130.
5. That Wolves team was 24-58. The year before, they were 22-60 and the year after they were an abysmal 15-67, then 17-65 and then 26-40 with Rick Adelman.
6. In that five-year stretch, McHale's squad posted the second best record of any of the teams aside from Adelman, a Hall of Fame caliber coach, whose Wolves were only 2 games better.
7. The Wolves have had one bright spot since McHale left Minnesota and that's Kevin Love, a player McHale was instrumental in the Wolves acquiring on draft night.
8. McHale also drafted Kevin Garnett, easily the greatest player in Timberwolves' history.
9. McHale's first season as the Rockets coach, Houston was .515 on the season and finished with the 9th seed. The prior season (Adelman's last), the Rockets were .524 with the 9th seed.
10. Coaching similar talent on the same teams, McHale's teams were only slightly worse than Adelman.
11. McHale's players have loved him and have lobbied for him on every team he's coached.

So, please enlighten me. You claim that all the facts are in the record books. What facts? The fact that he drafted two of the three best PFs over the last 15 years? Or the fact that he's done a pretty damn good job as a head coach?


This season hes been ok/good. Overall still a failure. He needs at least 1 more great season before he sheds that label. I'd call MJ a failure as an owner too... just because Bobcats are decent this year doesn't mean he hasn't been one.
Michael Jordan's record as a front office executive doesn't deserve to lick McHale's balls. Jordan has done nothing but fail time after time after time. McHale drafted easily the two best players in Minnesota over the last 20 years, made the Wolves a respectable franchise in the early 2000s and helped the Wolves on his way out by taking the best player in a draft when everyone thought it was a terrible move. Then he goes over to Houston, takes over the reigns of a young, raw team with crazy potential and gets them to play for each other.

Say what you will about McHale. His rotations are somewhat questionable and I'm not always crazy about his offensive plays late in games, but the man gets the best out of his guys. He's made a huge contribution to the offensive games of some of the league's best big men over the years, and he's already helped make a noticeable difference in Dwight's game this season.

You can either take everything I said in stride and accept it or continue *****ing about it and calling him "Mcfail." But don't you dare rip on a guy for not "looking at the record books," when you don't know what the **** you're talking about and clearly haven't looked at the guy's career at all.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 12:21 AM
Okay then, smart guy. Here are some facts about Kevin McHale's coaching career:

1. McHale's teams as a coach have a .531 record.
2. Four of the five years McHale has coached, his teams had a record over .500.
3. McHale only coached one sub .500 team: the 2008-2009 Wolves.
4. Not a single player on that team posted a WS/48 over .130.
5. That Wolves team was 24-58. The year before, they were 22-60 and the year after they were an abysmal 15-67, then 17-65 and then 26-40 with Rick Adelman.
6. In that five-year stretch, McHale's squad posted the second best record of any of the teams aside from Adelman, a Hall of Fame caliber coach, whose Wolves were only 2 games better.
7. The Wolves have had one bright spot since McHale left Minnesota and that's Kevin Love, a player McHale was instrumental in the Wolves acquiring on draft night.
8. McHale also drafted Kevin Garnett, easily the greatest player in Timberwolves' history.
9. McHale's first season as the Rockets coach, Houston was .515 on the season and finished with the 9th seed. The prior season (Adelman's last), the Rockets were .524 with the 9th seed.
10. Coaching similar talent on the same teams, McHale's teams were only slightly worse than Adelman.
11. McHale's players have loved him and have lobbied for him on every team he's coached.


1. IDK Where you got that record, but 2 years with Wolves and 2 years with Rockets (not counting this one --- not because it will boost his Wins, but because my main argument is that you're a failure until proven otherwise and the season is not over) is 118 - 124. A 48.8% win ratio. Thats not success.

2. Of those 5 years: 31 GP, 63, 66, 55. 3 out of the last 4 he missed playoffs, but I'll give him 3 out of last 5 since Houston should make it this year. What good is .500 if you can't make the playoffs?

3. This is same as point 2.

4. Since WS stands for Win SHares and his team usually plays sub .500 ball, its safe to assume that either the players he had sucked (which wasn't always the case) or he wasn't able to get the best out of them.

5. Kahn was a huge failure, Rubio sucks, etc. I never disagreed. The roster wasn't even the same as the one he had.

6. See point 5. Roster was completely different. Kahn did a terrible job. I never said Kahn was better than Adelman.

7. Isiah Thomas and Bryan Colangelo also made a few good picks and some good moves. Both were a huge failure. Bryan Colangelo build the Nash suns (who won many games), but he will still be known as a failure.

8. So if a GM makes 1 or 2 good picks, I can't call him a failure? Almost every GM makes 1 or 2 great picks. What kind of expectations are those?

9. "McHale's first season as the Rockets coach, Houston was .515 on the season and finished with the 9th seed. The prior season (Adelman's last), the Rockets were .524 with the 9th seed." Yes during the lockout season, McHale got the 9th seed. Are we seriously lowering expectations to this? I don't understand how this point shows he hasn't been a failure.

10. Purely subjective on your part. Adelman's team was never this stacked. He had a Yao/Tmac combo that was always Yao or Tmac. I remember very well that Adelman took a championship Lakers team to 7 games without Yao. That was very impressive.

11. I'll assume this point is true (you don't need to show me). I never said he was a bad guy. But this still doesn't justify why hes been successful. If you show me a list of every fired HC, I'm sure you can also find players who liked him.

-----

I guess it comes down to how much success people expect. I thought the Rockets had championship aspirations. I didn't know the expectations for him was set so low. This season it looks like hes gotten the Rockets winning, but I've seen so many times where he let Harden do w/e he wants and lost control of his team. Benched the hot hand.

If he gets the Rockets past a tough team like the Thunder, Clipps, Spurs or if he shows something impressive. Then I have no problem calling him by his real name. But getting to .500 or losing 1st round isn't a non-failure.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 12:21 AM
Also people think I hate Dwight... thats a misconception as well. I always said he was the best C in the game.

TheMightyHumph
03-11-2014, 12:24 AM
They have been on an absolute tear as of late and just dismantled what some people think, the best team in the nba. How far can you see them going?

Sure, they are contenders

mightybosstone
03-11-2014, 12:47 AM
1. IDK Where you got that record, but 2 years with Wolves and 2 years with Rockets (not counting this one --- not because it will boost his Wins, but because my main argument is that you're a failure until proven otherwise and the season is not over) is 118 - 124. A 48.8% win ratio. Thats not success.
Lol.... Because you're clearly not including this season. That doesn't exactly seem fair. Are we supposed to pretend this season didn't happen?


2. Of those 5 years: 31 GP, 63, 66, 55. 3 out of the last 4 he missed playoffs, but I'll give him 3 out of last 5 since Houston should make it this year. What good is .500 if you can't make the playoffs?
He's been good when he's had good talent and bad when he's had bad talent. That Wolves team he coached was proven to be a terrible team REGARDLESS of who the coach was. You're totally ignoring that point for the sake of your argument. You could have given Red ****ing Auerbach that Wolves team and they wouldn't have come close to making the playoffs.


4. Since WS stands for Win SHares and his team usually plays sub .500 ball, its safe to assume that either the players he had sucked (which wasn't always the case) or he wasn't able to get the best out of them.
Again. You're ignoring the fact that coaches with essentially the exact same players did not perform any better with those players than McHale did. Is Rick Adelman a failure because he couldn't get that team to the playoffs? I think not.


7. Isiah Thomas and Bryan Colangelo also made a few good picks and some good moves. Both were a huge failure. Bryan Colangelo build the Nash suns (who won many games), but he will still be known as a failure.

8. So if a GM makes 1 or 2 good picks, I can't call him a failure? Almost every GM makes 1 or 2 great picks. What kind of expectations are those?
McHale was also responsible for putting together the best Wolves teams in the history of the franchise. They didn't make the playoffs before he got there and they haven't made the playoffs since. Call McHale whatever you like, but the man has done more for that franchise than arguably any other person.


9. "McHale's first season as the Rockets coach, Houston was .515 on the season and finished with the 9th seed. The prior season (Adelman's last), the Rockets were .524 with the 9th seed." Yes during the lockout season, McHale got the 9th seed. Are we seriously lowering expectations to this? I don't understand how this point shows he hasn't been a failure.

10. Purely subjective on your part. Adelman's team was never this stacked. He had a Yao/Tmac combo that was always Yao or Tmac. I remember very well that Adelman took a championship Lakers team to 7 games without Yao. That was very impressive.
First off, Adelman had ****ing Yao to play with. That's why he made it to Game 7 in the second round against the Lakers. And you're totally missing both of these points COMPLETELY. My point isn't that he was a great coach. It's that he was just as successful with very similar rosters as one of the greatest NBA coaches of the last 25 years. Great coaches are successful because they have great players. McHale has great players now. Does that make him a great coach? No. But it also doesn't make him a failure of a coach when he performs poorly with bad players.


I guess it comes down to how much success people expect. I thought the Rockets had championship aspirations. I didn't know the expectations for him was set so low. This season it looks like hes gotten the Rockets winning, but I've seen so many times where he let Harden do w/e he wants and lost control of his team. Benched the hot hand.

If he gets the Rockets past a tough team like the Thunder, Clipps, Spurs or if he shows something impressive. Then I have no problem calling him by his real name. But getting to .500 or losing 1st round isn't a non-failure.
I also don't think you could judge him based solely on this season. If the Rockets get knocked out in the first round or win the NBA championship, it doesn't necessarily prove he's a terrible or a great coach. Give them some time. If we're sitting here three years from now and talking about how Houston hasn't made it past the second round of the playoffs and they're still making the same mistakes they're making today, he's a failure. I'll agree with you. If they're consistently making it to at least the WCF and/or have a ring under their belt, then he's a relative success.

Bottom line, just leave the ****ing guy alone. He's made some mistakes, but he's had some successes as well. There are a TON of front office guys and coaches who wish they could have had McHale's level of success over their careers. You can laugh at that all you want, but it's clearly true. He's not the worst coach in the league, he's certainly had a better career than a lot of the front office guys in the league and he's had a pretty darn good career in basketball since retiring. Period.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 01:01 AM
I don't want to make this a crap fest but I will highlight a few of your sentences:


You're totally ignoring that point for the sake of your argument. You could have given Red ****ing Auerbach that Wolves team and they wouldn't have come close to making the playoffs.

Pop could have. A lot of good coaches could've gotten an Al Jefferson (who did get hurt) and Love team into the playoffs.


Is Rick Adelman a failure because he couldn't get that team to the playoffs? I think not.
Yes he has. Adelman has been a huge failure in Minnesota.


They didn't make the playoffs before he got there and they haven't made the playoffs since. Call McHale whatever you like, but the man has done more for that franchise than arguably any other person.
This might be true, but Bryan Colangelo built the best team the Raptors ever had (W-L recordwise). Hes been a failure as a GM for them.


First off, Adelman had ****ing Yao to play with. That's why he made it to Game 7 in the second round against the Lakers. And you're totally missing both of these points COMPLETELY. My point isn't that he was a great coach. It's that he was just as successful with very similar rosters as one of the greatest NBA coaches of the last 25 years. Great coaches are successful because they have great players. McHale has great players now. Does that make him a great coach? No. But it also doesn't make him a failure of a coach when he performs poorly with bad players.

Believe it or not. I followed the Rockets since they got Mcgrady because I was a huge Tmac fan (not anymore -- after he picked the Lakers to beat the Rockets in 2008, I quit being a fan). So I know for a fact that Yao was injured after game 3 with the Rockets DOWN 1-2. So no Yao wasn't the reason they made it to Game 7. Hes had more unsuccessful years that successful years. I don't get how he hasn't been a failure?


I also don't think you could judge him based solely on this season. If the Rockets get knocked out in the first round or win the NBA championship, it doesn't necessarily prove he's a terrible or a great coach.
I judged his whole resume thus far. This year is pending. If the rockets don't make it past the first round, this has been a failed season (at least IMO). So not only will he be a failure, so will all the main rockets players. This team has to get past the first round.



Bottom line, just leave the ****ing guy alone. He's made some mistakes, but he's had some successes as well. There are a TON of front office guys and coaches who wish they could have had McHale's level of success over their careers. You can laugh at that all you want, but it's clearly true. He's not the worst coach in the league, he's certainly had a better career than a lot of the front office guys in the league and he's had a pretty darn good career in basketball since retiring. Period.
I think you're insulting him by saying "not one of the worst coaches". Of course hes not, but is that the standard to measure success/fail? If you ask Kevin, I bet he would admit hes been a failure thus far. Can failure be an operative word (i didn't think it could be)? Because for some reason the standards are set very very low for him. Bottom line: Rockets are contenders. The HC has a huge responsibilty in getting the team to be ready to win it all.

mightybosstone
03-11-2014, 01:24 AM
Pop could have. A lot of good coaches could've gotten an Al Jefferson (who did get hurt) and Love team into the playoffs.
Total nonsense. The Love/Jefferson front court was a horrible experiment was destined for failure, and Love was 20 freaking years old at the time. No way does Pop get that team in the playoffs, and you'd be delusional to think otherwise.


Yes he has. Adelman has been a huge failure in Minnesota.
But notice how you said "in Minnesota"? You're only taking a portion of his career and calling him a failure. I'm fine with that. If you said "McHale was a failure as a GM and coach his last few years in Minnesota" I could get on board with that. After putting together the best Wolves team in franchise history, he should have done more to keep KG happy and keep that team advancing. But you're calling him a failure overall, and that's just not fair. Minnesota probably doesn't make all those playoff appearances without McHale at the helm, and you certainly cannot call him a failure as a coach over his 2 1/2 years in Houston.


This might be true, but Bryan Colangelo built the best team the Raptors ever had (W-L recordwise). Hes been a failure as a GM for them.
That's ********, though, because you're giving him credit for a team built around Bosh, who he didn't draft. McHale drafted KG and put all those pieces around KG to make that Wolves team successful. Colangelo was given a damn good player, put mediocre pieces around him and never did anything else. The one good thing on that franchise was something he had no part in whatsoever.


Believe it or not. I followed the Rockets since they got Mcgrady because I was a huge Tmac fan (not anymore -- after he picked the Lakers to beat the Rockets in 2008, I quit being a fan). So I know for a fact that Yao was injured after game 3 with the Rockets DOWN 1-2. So no Yao wasn't the reason they made it to Game 7. Hes had more unsuccessful years that successful years. I don't get how he hasn't been a failure?
I'm aware of what happened in the series. It's the most memorable postseason series of pretty much my entire adult life. And they overachieved, but still ultimately lost the series. Mostly they won because Houston just matched up well with LA. Fisher could not stay in front of Brooks, who torched them all series long, and Artest gave them major fits on both ends of the floor. That team was also really deep. That was when they had the "Scolandry" PF duo and stifling perimeter defenders with Artest and Battier on the same starting five.

Adelman did a really good job of coaching that team. He was neither a failure or a huge success. McHale should be considered the same at this point until he proves otherwise.


I judged his whole resume thus far. This year is pending. If the rockets don't make it past the first round, this has been a failed season (at least IMO). So not only will he be a failure, so will all the main rockets players. This team has to get past the first round.
I agree that they should. But this team is also incredibly young and is playing in one of the toughest conferences in the history of the league. The playoffs are all about matchups. Houston could get to the WCF or they could get bounced in the first round. Again, I don't think that makes or breaks McHale's career.


I think you're insulting him by saying "not one of the worst coaches". Of course hes not, but is that the standard to measure success/fail? If you ask Kevin, I bet he would admit hes been a failure thus far. Can failure be an operative word (i didn't think it could be)? Because for some reason the standards are set very very low for him. Bottom line: Rockets are contenders. The HC has a huge responsibilty in getting the team to be ready to win it all.
Okay, you and I have EXTREMELY different ways of evaluating coaches. You seem to believe that a coach has to win a championship or have a ton of postseason success to be deemed not a failure. I don't. I think a coach should actually be given a decent amount of time before being judged as a failure, and McHale hasn't even coached an NBA basketball team for five full seasons or this squad for three full years.

Also, if you want to go around ripping on NBA coaches who haven't had a ton of success, I'm fine with that. But do it across the ****ing board. I want to see equal criticism for all coaches of McHale's level of success, and you're not doing that at all. You're singling out the guy and using a pathetic excuse of a nickname as an insult to take a shot at our team and us Rockets fans. Where's the criticism for all the other mediocre coaches in the NBA? I don't see you ripping on D'Antoni. Where's the hate for Scott Brooks? I want to see you rip on Mike Woodson.

If you want to be taken seriously, then be objective and treat each coach equally. Don't be some antagonistic punk who goes around spewing the same ****ing nonsense every Rockets game. No one respects that guy and nobody gives two ***** about anything that guy has to say.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 01:39 AM
Okay, you and I have EXTREMELY different ways of evaluating coaches. You seem to believe that a coach has to win a championship or have a ton of postseason success to be deemed not a failure. I don't. I think a coach should actually be given a decent amount of time before being judged as a failure, and McHale hasn't even coached an NBA basketball team for five full seasons or this squad for three full years.

Also, if you want to go around ripping on NBA coaches who haven't had a ton of success, I'm fine with that. But do it across the ****ing board. I want to see equal criticism for all coaches of McHale's level of success, and you're not doing that at all. You're singling out the guy and using a pathetic excuse of a nickname as an insult to take a shot at our team and us Rockets fans. Where's the criticism for all the other mediocre coaches in the NBA? I don't see you ripping on D'Antoni. Where's the hate for Scott Brooks? I want to see you rip on Mike Woodson.

If you want to be taken seriously, then be objective and treat each coach equally. Don't be some antagonistic punk who goes around spewing the same ****ing nonsense every Rockets game. No one respects that guy and nobody gives two ***** about anything that guy has to say.

You don't need to win right away to be successful. Depends on what the team goal is. The Timberwolves have always wanted to make the playoffs, he failed there.

Ummmm you are not new here, but I always rip on Antoni (he doesn't even deserve to have a D in his name because he doesn't coach D). Scott Brooks has a good resume. Mike Woodson got sabotaged, so it just wouldn't be fair.

Also I don't think I spew the same nonsense every Rockets game. I like Harden, Lin, Beverley, somewhat Parsons. Rockets fans just have low standards for Dwight.

Asik's better
03-11-2014, 04:59 AM
You don't need to win right away to be successful. Depends on what the team goal is. The Timberwolves have always wanted to make the playoffs, he failed there.

Ummmm you are not new here, but I always rip on Antoni (he doesn't even deserve to have a D in his name because he doesn't coach D). Scott Brooks has a good resume. Mike Woodson got sabotaged, so it just wouldn't be fair.

Also I don't think I spew the same nonsense every Rockets game. I like Harden, Lin, Beverley, somewhat Parsons. Rockets fans just have low standards for Dwight.
We don't have low standards for Howard, we just know what role he is playing and how he is playing that role well. And it's obviously working.

mightybosstone
03-11-2014, 09:11 AM
You don't need to win right away to be successful. Depends on what the team goal is. The Timberwolves have always wanted to make the playoffs, he failed there.
What? Except he didn't fail. He was the reason they made the playoffs for 8 consecutive years. As a coach, you cannot possibly blame him for them not making the playoffs in 04-05 after Saunders was canned. He only coached 31 games that year, and they did a hell of a lot better than when Saunders was the coach. And how can you possibly blame him for not making the playoffs in 08-09 when I showed you the record of the team before and after McHale? That was not a good basketball team and they were playing in a very good conference. NO COACH could have gotten that team to the playoffs. And if you don't want to believe me, that's fine, but I assure you that you're wrong.


Ummmm you are not new here, but I always rip on Antoni (he doesn't even deserve to have a D in his name because he doesn't coach D). Scott Brooks has a good resume. Mike Woodson got sabotaged, so it just wouldn't be fair.
Scott Brooks is one of the most overrated coaches in the league. And I don't see how it's fair to call McHale a failure for inheriting a bad team and not making the playoffs and then not criticize Woodson for inheriting a decent team with a terrible front office and not making the playoffs. As bad as this Knicks team is, they're unquestionably better on paper than that 08-09 Wolves team.


Also I don't think I spew the same nonsense every Rockets game. I like Harden, Lin, Beverley, somewhat Parsons. Rockets fans just have low standards for Dwight.
Yes, you do. Any time you post in the game thread and the Rockets happen to be playing that night, I can almost guarantee at least one "Mcfail" quote that evening. As far as Rockets fans having low standards for Dwight, I have no clue what you're talking about. The dude is averaging 19/12/2/2/1 in only 34 minutes per night and is having his most efficient season in three years. You could make a strong case that this is his best season since 10-11 and the fifth best season of his entire career.

Are his numbers as good as the 4-year stretch in Orlando from 08-11? No, but Dwight is not a young man in basketball terms. He's logged over 27,000 minutes in his career (199th all-time) and big men usually start to fall apart when they have injuries. The fact that he's been healthy all season long is a positive sign, and if he continues to put up 80-90% of what he did at his peak in Orlando, I'll be thrilled. The guy may no longer be in his peak, but he's still in his prime, he's unquestionably one of the 2-3 best centers in the NBA, he's shown improvement in his low post game this season and his defense is stellar. What more should we expect of him?

JordansBulls
03-11-2014, 11:01 AM
Yes they are. They have the guy that everyone fears and that is Dwight.

JetRocketAngel
03-11-2014, 12:04 PM
MBT, thanks for enlightening me on McHale's record. As I've never followed anyone but the rockets, I didn't know anything about him before he got here.

JWE, that's classic "moving the goalposts". You just redefined "fail" so that your argument is never wrong. Guys a failure, oh he's over 500? He's never won in the playoffs. Oh, he's over 500 in the playoffs? He's never won a championship. He's a choker. Oh he won the championship this year? He should've won three by now...

It never ends.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 01:11 PM
MBT, thanks for enlightening me on McHale's record. As I've never followed anyone but the rockets, I didn't know anything about him before he got here.

JWE, that's classic "moving the goalposts". You just redefined "fail" so that your argument is never wrong. Guys a failure, oh he's over 500? He's never won in the playoffs. Oh, he's over 500 in the playoffs? He's never won a championship. He's a choker. Oh he won the championship this year? He should've won three by now...

It never ends.

So hes a success? Glad to know. I think my stance has been pretty solid in the ground. My goal for the Rockets is at least the WC semi finals. Anything less is a failure for everyone on the Rockets. If he makes it to the WCSF, you won't hear a peep from me about how hes a failure.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 01:13 PM
Yes, you do. Any time you post in the game thread and the Rockets happen to be playing that night, I can almost guarantee at least one "Mcfail" quote that evening. As far as Rockets fans having low standards for Dwight, I have no clue what you're talking about. The dude is averaging 19/12/2/2/1 in only 34 minutes per night and is having his most efficient season in three years. You could make a strong case that this is his best season since 10-11 and the fifth best season of his entire career.

Are his numbers as good as the 4-year stretch in Orlando from 08-11? No, but Dwight is not a young man in basketball terms. He's logged over 27,000 minutes in his career (199th all-time) and big men usually start to fall apart when they have injuries. The fact that he's been healthy all season long is a positive sign, and if he continues to put up 80-90% of what he did at his peak in Orlando, I'll be thrilled. The guy may no longer be in his peak, but he's still in his prime, he's unquestionably one of the 2-3 best centers in the NBA, he's shown improvement in his low post game this season and his defense is stellar. What more should we expect of him?

I think I've called him Mcfail once (in this thread) since the winning streak.

I always said Dwight was the best C in the game. When he has a bad night, Im allowed to rip on him because I hold him to high standards. Theres no excuse for him not to show up (many times given the amount of times I talk negative about him).

FOBolous
03-11-2014, 01:37 PM
John Wall Era is a troll. Why do yall keep feeding the troll? arguing with him goes nowhere. ignore him.

king4day
03-11-2014, 01:38 PM
It'd be pretty cool to see Houston/Miami in the finals. Talk about star power.

Tony_Starks
03-11-2014, 02:17 PM
If HOU made it to the conference Final I would be damn flabbergasted and call it a great year for them. As is I see 2nd round out depending on matchups....

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 02:41 PM
John Wall Era is a troll. Why do yall keep feeding the troll? arguing with him goes nowhere. ignore him.

This is typical nonsense from a guy who can't back up anything. I never troll. I have backed up everything. If I wanted to troll, I would say 1 sentence to get a reaction and then never comment again. You make yourself look very dumb.

2-ONE-5
03-11-2014, 02:48 PM
contenders for sure. I would love to see a Houston/Clippers matchup at some point in the playoffs

Tony_Starks
03-11-2014, 02:55 PM
contenders for sure. I would love to see a Houston/Clippers matchup at some point in the playoffs

I don't think they want that. No answer for CP3 or Blake and DJ can defend Dwight straight up.

It would basically be the Harden show. It's a bad matchup for them.

Cal827
03-11-2014, 02:59 PM
I love both guys in the front court, but not together.

Jefferson+ Love = Worst defensive front court in history lol

JetRocketAngel
03-11-2014, 03:17 PM
So hes a success? Glad to know. I think my stance has been pretty solid in the ground. My goal for the Rockets is at least the WC semi finals. Anything less is a failure for everyone on the Rockets. If he makes it to the WCSF, you won't hear a peep from me about how hes a failure.

For the record, there's no way you're trolling. Thanks for the alternate viewpoint!

Also, trolls don't make definitive, verifiable statements. Thank you, I get you now. You have a very high expectation for this team and are pretty harsh with your definition of failure.

I'll return the favor,

If the rockets Don't make it to a seventh game in the first round, the year is a failure and so is the coach (unless both Howard and harden are injured).

I'd call a second round exit to be just an average performance for the team, but the coach could be deemed a failure there if the team doesn't make adjustments. Say we lose three games in a row. That's a failure for McHale.

mightybosstone
03-11-2014, 04:41 PM
I think I've called him Mcfail once (in this thread) since the winning streak.
But the Rockets have been good all year long and have pretty much consistently been a top 5 team the majority of the season. Based on that and the information I've already mentioned, I don't believe his job as a coach warrants a nickname as vicious as "Mcfail." Hell, I criticized the guy midway through the season when they underachieving, blowing leads and losing to bad teams. But I was overreacting to a team that was still trying to figure itself out. If they can continue to play at this level and make a deep playoff run, McHale not only doesn't deserve criticism. The man deserves praise.


I always said Dwight was the best C in the game. When he has a bad night, Im allowed to rip on him because I hold him to high standards. Theres no excuse for him not to show up (many times given the amount of times I talk negative about him).
You do realize there's 82 games in a season right? EVERYONE has a few bad games, and unless you're Lebron or Durant, you're going to have more than a handful of them in a season. I'll criticize Dwight when he plays poorly enough to warrant it, but I've seen you rip the guy when he still has a decent game. Bottom line, he's having a damn good season and he's played very well since the first couple of months of the season. I think you could make a strong argument that both he and Harden belong in the top 10 players in the league discussion based on their level of play this season.

lol, please
03-11-2014, 04:47 PM
I would say the Rockets are absolutely serious contenders, though they are a tier below the Heat/Pacers/Warriors/OKC

mightybosstone
03-11-2014, 04:52 PM
I would say the Rockets are absolutely serious contenders, though they are a tier below the Heat/Pacers/Warriors/OKC

I love how you not so subtly dropped the Warriors into your list of top tier teams, but managed to leave out Houston, LA and San Antonio, who are all clearly superior basketball teams right now. I'd love to see you try to justify the Warriors as better than those three teams. But you can't, because you're the biggest Warrior homer on this site, and you never back up anything you say with facts or figures.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 04:59 PM
Bottom line is that I have high expectations for Dwight and the Rockets. If he wants to be judged as a top 10 center, then I wouldn't waste my time on him. But hes getting judged as the best.

Goose17
03-11-2014, 05:02 PM
I love how you not so subtly dropped the Warriors into your list of top tier teams, but managed to leave out Houston, LA and San Antonio, who are all clearly superior basketball teams right now. I'd love to see you try to justify the Warriors as better than those three teams. But you can't, because you're the biggest Warrior homer on this site, and you never back up anything you say with facts or figures.

He can easily justify the Dubs being as good as Houston or the Clippers.

Spurs are above all of those teams though.


Maybe we shouldn't get into this again? This conversation has been had at least 30 times in the last month.

All-In
03-11-2014, 05:23 PM
Yes….Houston are contenders….but the west is so crazy…Houston vs GSW….LA vs. Portland…OKC vs Dallas…San vs MEM….in the 1st round!!! That’s nuts….so it depends on matchups…the west is wide open

2-ONE-5
03-11-2014, 05:35 PM
I love how you not so subtly dropped the Warriors into your list of top tier teams, but managed to leave out Houston, LA and San Antonio, who are all clearly superior basketball teams right now. I'd love to see you try to justify the Warriors as better than those three teams. But you can't, because you're the biggest Warrior homer on this site, and you never back up anything you say with facts or figures.

haha beat me to it. id love to hear that one myself

WARRIORS@GR
03-11-2014, 05:59 PM
I would say the Rockets are absolutely serious contenders, though they are a tier below the Heat/Pacers/Warriors/OKC
:dance::dance::

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-11-2014, 06:01 PM
I think they are. They look really good. West playoffs are going to be so great this year.

FOBolous
03-11-2014, 06:27 PM
I love how you not so subtly dropped the Warriors into your list of top tier teams, but managed to leave out Houston, LA and San Antonio, who are all clearly superior basketball teams right now. I'd love to see you try to justify the Warriors as better than those three teams. But you can't, because you're the biggest Warrior homer on this site, and you never back up anything you say with facts or figures.

why do you argue with people that can't be reasoned with. lol,please and john_wall_era both post obviously ******** posts...the posts they past are so ******** that they're either 1. really THAT stupid or 2. are being trolls. either way, it's pointless arguing with them....stupid people are stupid and trolls are trolls.

houstonfan
03-11-2014, 06:28 PM
I love how you not so subtly dropped the Warriors into your list of top tier teams, but managed to leave out Houston, LA and San Antonio, who are all clearly superior basketball teams right now. I'd love to see you try to justify the Warriors as better than those three teams. But you can't, because you're the biggest Warrior homer on this site, and you never back up anything you say with facts or figures.

Come on MBT, #FullSquad! Losing 2 of 3 against the Rockets CLEARLY means they are a far superior team. How do you not understand how GS (a 6 seed) is a top championship contender?

houstonfan
03-11-2014, 06:31 PM
He can easily justify the Dubs being as good as Houston or the Clippers.

Spurs are above all of those teams though.


Maybe we shouldn't get into this again? This conversation has been had at least 30 times in the last month.

Lol what is more argued on this site: "Lebron or Kobe?" or "Rockets or Warriors?" Its actually pretty close

ztilzer31
03-11-2014, 06:45 PM
why do you argue with people that can't be reasoned with. lol,please and john_wall_era both post obviously ******** posts...the posts they past are so ******** that they're either 1. really THAT stupid or 2. are being trolls. either way, it's pointless arguing with them....stupid people are stupid and trolls are trolls.

Lol, please is the biggest homer on this site. He makes bold claims and disappears, and uses emoticons on 99% of his posts.

I honestly don't have him ignored, but I might as well. I don't even read his posts anymore. I can honestly not think of one time over the last few years where he had something meaningful to say on any topic.

John Walls Era
03-11-2014, 06:48 PM
Fob is a huge homer. Probably only like Rockets cuz of Yao.

ztilzer31
03-11-2014, 06:48 PM
I'd have.

1. Miami
2. OKC
3. Indiana
4. San Antonio
5. Clippers/Rockets

I said at the beginning of the year I thought the Rockets would make the 3 or 4 seed and lose in the WCF, and I'm sticking to that. I think talent wise they're probably better than most of those teams, but this is still there first full season with Dwight, and I think the team needs another year till they make a run to the title.

This year just seems like OKC's year, but that's just me.

SteBO
03-11-2014, 07:04 PM
I'd worry about their bench, especially in the Western conference. I consider them a serious dark horse, but until they get a stronger bench I'll have a hard time labeling them "serious title contenders".

Matter.
03-11-2014, 10:16 PM
homers calling out homers lmfao

ztilzer31
03-11-2014, 11:14 PM
I'd worry about their bench, especially in the Western conference. I consider them a serious dark horse, but until they get a stronger bench I'll have a hard time labeling them "serious title contenders".

As far as a starting 5 though they're as good as anyone though IMO.

There about 7 or 8 deep. Probably need another 1 or 2 role players.

John Walls Era
03-13-2014, 02:20 PM
Like I said. Dwight doesn't show up vs the 2 biggest threats to the Rockets: Clippers or Thunder.

I think Spurs are a top 2 team in the West, but Rockets play them well.

Blitzbolt
03-13-2014, 09:49 PM
Matchups!!