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View Full Version : Swap the eras of Michael Jordan and LeBron James and what happens?



Kushed
03-07-2014, 05:53 PM
I ask this question from a media standpoint.

We constantly see people complain again and again and again about how media outlets cover LeBron James non-stop all of the time 24/7.

There is no doubt in my mind that this coverage has shed a negative light on LeBron James in many people's eyes even though it isn't necessarily deserved. He doesn't create these stories yet people can't stand it and use that as a reason to not like him.



Now bring in Michael Jordan and this coverage would be 10x worse. We are talking about the greatest player EVER. A player that played in an era where there wasn't twitter, there was non-stop coverage, not stop scrutiny. MJ wasn't a saint. He had a gambling problem, he did his things that would have been questionable in the eyes of the world today but the coverage just wasn't there.



Would MJ's legacy been different in todays era? Lets assume his career achievements stayed the same, but would his global perception been as good as it is considering when he played?

Mr_Jones
03-07-2014, 06:02 PM
tittaysssssss

Hawkeye15
03-07-2014, 06:10 PM
LeBron stays the same, Jordan probably gets better than he was.

numba1CHANGsta
03-07-2014, 06:23 PM
Another LeBron thread? you guys are worst than BSPN smh

MJ would win more than 6 in this era of weak defensive teams, LeBron would struggle with those great defensive teams in the 90's, he would probably win 3 rings max

Kushed
03-07-2014, 06:24 PM
Another LeBron thread? you guys are worst than BSPN smh

MJ would win more than 6 in this era of weak defensive teams, LeBron would struggle with those great defensive teams in the 90's, he would probably win 3 rings max

you clearly didn't read the question which is funny... i said assume career achievements stayed the same, how would the media of todays day and age effect michael jordans overall perception??

gtfo you clown

Shlumpledink
03-07-2014, 06:46 PM
I dunno, Michael Jordan couldn't handle the off-speed stuff. He was pretty good in the outfield, he had a lot of range, but his arm wasn't very good. I think he could pass as a left fielder, maybe even a center fielder.

Pitchers today throw a lot more changeups than they did when he was playing. Would he be in the white sox farm system? I think they could use the right handed hitting depth in their farm system, but I think he would struggle at the triple a level when he started seeing a lot more offspeed stuff.

I've never seen Lebron play baseball, but i'm pretty sure he's the next babe ruth.

Supreme LA
03-07-2014, 06:47 PM
MJ would be better tha he was in today's league if that's even possible. LBJ would be a little worse in half court sets and minus the flopping.

WadeKobe
03-07-2014, 06:52 PM
Not a single person read the OP! :laugh:

Kushed
03-07-2014, 06:57 PM
Not a single person read the OP! :laugh:


lol shows me a lot about this forum

LakerShow
03-07-2014, 06:58 PM
Mj would be better. he won't even have to complain jack **** like lbj. James would be good, but he will decrease a little bit imo.

still1ballin
03-07-2014, 07:00 PM
tittaysssssss

:drool:

cmellofan15
03-07-2014, 07:04 PM
I think Michael Jordan might have been hated a little more than Lebron if the eras were switched. Not as much exaggeration about what LeBron did without social media and Jordan's trash talking and whatnot would be put under a microscope nowadays.

thephoenixson28
03-07-2014, 07:06 PM
The game is more advanced today than it was back then. LeBron would dominate. Jordan would still be great, but wouldn't be known as the greatest. Just imagine Dirk Nowitzki back then.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2014, 07:13 PM
you clearly didn't read the question which is funny... i said assume career achievements stayed the same, how would the media of todays day and age effect michael jordans overall perception??

gtfo you clown

Jordan would be perceived much more negatively now. He was sort of a jerk, very arrogant, and tough to play with.

LeBron much more positively. Media scrutiny wasn't as high, and with no internet/social media, I think people just kinda stay out of his business.

Shlumpledink
03-07-2014, 07:17 PM
Can you imagine the daily story and quotes we would get if Jordan punched Steve Kerr in today's modern media cycle? We wouldn't stop hearing about it. It would follow him his entire career, and it would be a circus of ex-teammates and friends talking about playing with jordan.

Jordan would have to issue a public apology. Can you imagine if Nike had dropped Jordan because of it?

Bostonjorge
03-07-2014, 07:25 PM
If everything stayed the same for both players then Jordan staying with 1 team until he won 6 championships with a team that never won would be insane in todays media. Retiring and returning 2 different times would of also been a bigger deal. But I wonder if the older players who never played Jordan would still name jordan as the undisputed best like they all do now.

Lebron would have gotten KO'd by bird and Detroit. Especially after winning 2 MVP's and joining another finals MVP's team to finally beat Boston but in this case bird and Mchale. Older players would hold a grudge for these actions and always mention it.

Dade County
03-07-2014, 07:33 PM
Another LeBron thread? you guys are worst than BSPN smh

MJ would win more than 6 in this era of weak defensive teams, LeBron would struggle with those great defensive teams in the 90's, he would probably win 3 rings max

No he wouldn't... Because unlike his era (after the bad boy Pistons era), Jordan would not be the only player getting these super star foul calls.

He would have to deal with that (what he & Stern created by the way). Mj guarding prime Kobe, Wade, Lbj an whoever the league decides is a star, would get Mj in foul trouble. Mj would also get them into foul trouble to when they are actually matched up with each other.

But this myth that if Mj played in this era he would be at the line 20-25 times is so far off; e have seen ho many times lbj would take a trip to the foul line. Just go back to prime kobe, Wade, Lbj, KD, Shaq (with lakers)...etc trips to the line (when they are the featured play maker on their teams).

Thats one of the things Mj gave the league, the Super Star foul calls... Enjoy

Dade County
03-07-2014, 07:36 PM
And to the Op question...

Lbj would not have been hated by the media, but the players of that era would have hated him. So this means that the public would have loved Lbj (because Espn tells people who they like and don't like... The truth).

Mj would still be loved, but a lot of his dirt would have been exposed. And he wouldn't be considered the greatest because he would not have been perfect in the Final's, or have won so many.

Bartlee23
03-07-2014, 07:57 PM
I ask this question from a media standpoint.

We constantly see people complain again and again and again about how media outlets cover LeBron James non-stop all of the time 24/7.

There is no doubt in my mind that this coverage has shed a negative light on LeBron James in many people's eyes even though it isn't necessarily deserved. He doesn't create these stories yet people can't stand it and use that as a reason to not like him.



Now bring in Michael Jordan and this coverage would be 10x worse. We are talking about the greatest player EVER. A player that played in an era where there wasn't twitter, there was non-stop coverage, not stop scrutiny. MJ wasn't a saint. He had a gambling problem, he did his things that would have been questionable in the eyes of the world today but the coverage just wasn't there.



Would MJ's legacy been different in todays era? Lets assume his career achievements stayed the same, but would his global perception been as good as it is considering when he played?

Usually when you don't like a player it's either because you are jealous of how great he may be, mad because he's not on your team or simply just don't want him to be better then your "favorite player."

Not sure how old you are but Jordan was followed around by everyone trying to get a story. Jordan had the gambling problem, had relationships with other woman, possible kids with others, had his first retirement ( suspension?????),etc. The Bulls were followed around like the Beatles were. Everyone wanted a picture of Jordan or just to see him. It was talked about so often by teammates and even when they went to the Olympics what a following Jordan had.

The one thing Jordan didn't have was he didn't leave his team to go play for a super team to win championships and have a TV show about it. That as great as Lebron is brought him down a level that will never go back up. LA fans will always love Kobe, Chicago will love Jordan, New York will love Carmelo (for now ) and Miami will love Lebron unless he decides to jump ship and go play somewhere else. Media has always been there and always will be there.

Jordan was always for the NBA/Fans. He competed everytime he went out. He competed in the all-star slam dunk and three poiint contest to show he cared about the fans/NBA. He is truly a unique athlete and deseves all credit that is given to him. I've heard he was a jerk to teammates and had his flaws but believe it or not he's human.

I have yet to see anything Lebron has done to show he cares about the NBA/fans other than jump ship from his hometown to play with two all-stars. I do understand he wants to win and it's not for me to judge but realistically looking at it in my opinion makes me look at Lebron in a different light.

effen5
03-07-2014, 10:18 PM
While MJ might have been an arrogant prick, people forget he is probably one of the most mature professional players in the league.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2014, 10:21 PM
While MJ might have been an arrogant prick, people forget he is probably one of the most mature professional players in the league.

Can you imagine what modern day media would do with his "early retirement"? It's well known that he was a major gambler, and that may have been the reason he was asked to leave the NBA by Stern for that year. I mean, his father was murdered because of his addiction is the long standing rumor.

Couple in that he was so hard on his teammates, cheated left and right on his wife, and I really think modern media would crucify him to some degree, though his ability to play the game would temper some hate.

But he would have exponentially more haters today. There is no arguing that.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2014, 10:24 PM
Usually when you don't like a player it's either because you are jealous of how great he may be, mad because he's not on your team or simply just don't want him to be better then your "favorite player."

Not sure how old you are but Jordan was followed around by everyone trying to get a story. Jordan had the gambling problem, had relationships with other woman, possible kids with others, had his first retirement ( suspension?????),etc. The Bulls were followed around like the Beatles were. Everyone wanted a picture of Jordan or just to see him. It was talked about so often by teammates and even when they went to the Olympics what a following Jordan had.

The one thing Jordan didn't have was he didn't leave his team to go play for a super team to win championships and have a TV show about it. That as great as Lebron is brought him down a level that will never go back up. LA fans will always love Kobe, Chicago will love Jordan, New York will love Carmelo (for now ) and Miami will love Lebron unless he decides to jump ship and go play somewhere else. Media has always been there and always will be there.

Jordan was always for the NBA/Fans. He competed everytime he went out. He competed in the all-star slam dunk and three poiint contest to show he cared about the fans/NBA. He is truly a unique athlete and deseves all credit that is given to him. I've heard he was a jerk to teammates and had his flaws but believe it or not he's human.

I have yet to see anything Lebron has done to show he cares about the NBA/fans other than jump ship from his hometown to play with two all-stars. I do understand he wants to win and it's not for me to judge but realistically looking at it in my opinion makes me look at Lebron in a different light.

cause his FO got him his help, and the winningest coach ever.....

Besides, all of this needs to be put into perspective. When Jordan started his pro career, this nation was still a nation where loyalty existed. When LeBron entered the league, we had already crept into the entitlement mentality in our youth. Young people now flip around companies all the time. Back in the day, you stayed with your company forever.

Why are sports any different?

slashsnake
03-07-2014, 11:00 PM
Jordan would get killed by the media for every night he was out caught on a cell phone camera with another woman. Remember, the media loved following him, but nobody ever put those stories out there until after his career. And media coverage has changed. Then if it was broke, it would hit the paper of the writer that broke it and maybe catch a blurb on other media.

Think of the Jordan stories behind the scenes. The "suspension" retirement stories. Modern media, not the media of his time brings that one up. Could Jordan have stood up to 100 questions about if Rodman was a decent person if Rodman had a twitter account at the time? I doubt it.

If that happened today, it would be on twitter right away, then Mike and Mike first thing the following morning, then around the horn and PTI would get to dissect it, then sportscenter, then a 30 for 30 movie about it in a month E and TMZ that night..

As for the changing teams. I don't think Bird/Magic would have said much. They stayed on their teams because they had 3-4 HOFers to play with. Jordan would have been in a Knicks uniform had Pippen not worked out. He wanted to win first and foremost, and had his front office made decisions that made his team incapable of that, I don't think he would have rewarded their failures with some sort of "loyalty". Remember he was 1-9 in the playoffs before they got Pippen there. Had they not, and he kept failing there, he would have moved on if winning was his goal. He's said he would have many times.

I think his overall attitude towards some of his teammates and fans/reporters would have been more well known (like how he has shown himself to be at the NBA HOF induction and in interviews as an owner).

He would have been covered 10 times more than Lebron is now, but that means every moment dissected. You think the "Lebron can't win it all " in Cleveland was a big thing? Jordan had less playoff success at the same age. Imagine the call for him, after back to back ECF losses?

I think he would have been more famous, but more infamous also. He answered a couple questions about going out to gamble the night before an ECF game in Atlantic City. He said he was back at the hotel by 1AM. Witnesses said he was there till 3 or so at least. It was a blurb story and over.

Imagine that today. Actually it would fit really well. Lebron and the heat go into Indiana in the ECF with the 2nd best record in the NBA, but people say they kinda took it easy in the regular season and they are the back to back NBA champs. Lebron loses game 1, so he goes out the night before game 2, gambles, drinks, smokes, and doesn't get back until late. The media questions him on it, he says "I was back at 1AM" and then come the twitter pics from 3-4 AM when he was still out. Then he goes out and goes 12-32 from the field, and his team falls 0-2 to the Pacers. He'd be crucified! Then the following game, it wouldn't even matter that he won. 3-18 shooting is all the media would be talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if the media pressure today could have given that series a different outcome if that Bulls story had broken this year instead of 20 years ago.

NoahH
03-07-2014, 11:54 PM
Most of LeBron's hate came from switching teams, so if MJ stayed on the Bulls im sure he'd be loved. however if he had these gambling issues etc. then maybe the media would have blown it out of proportion. PLUS we all know the power of twitter. MJ couldnt step foot on the Vegas strip without his picture blowing up on social media.

Dade County
03-08-2014, 12:10 AM
The one thing Jordan didn't have was he didn't leave his team to go play for a super team to win championships and have a TV show about it. That as great as Lebron is brought him down a level that will never go back up. LA fans will always love Kobe, Chicago will love Jordan, New York will love Carmelo (for now ) and Miami will love Lebron unless he decides to jump ship and go play somewhere else. Media has always been there and always will be there.
.

The HEAT were not a super team, when Lbj was still deciding if he wanted play for them or the Cav's (Yes they planned to play with each other); when Lbj got there, they formed a super team; yes there's a difference.lol

And Mj played on a super team as well... One can argue one of the most stacked teams ever.

Supreme LA
03-08-2014, 12:48 AM
cause his FO got him his help, and the winningest coach ever.....

Besides, all of this needs to be put into perspective. When Jordan started his pro career, this nation was still a nation where loyalty existed. When LeBron entered the league, we had already crept into the entitlement mentality in our youth. Young people now flip around companies all the time. Back in the day, you stayed with your company forever.

Why are sports any different?

I love how you defend Lebron by using arguments such as this. It's people like you who discredit MJ for having the winningest coach ever and also discredit Phil for having MJ. At some point you have to give and stop using this as an argument because it's clear MJ and Phil both helped each other.

I also notice you'll argue down all Laker fans yet you never put any effort in correcting Heat fans or debating them when they make such homer statements like that Dade County clown. Oh I forgot, you love LBJ as much as they do.

Supreme LA
03-08-2014, 12:52 AM
The HEAT were not a super team, when Lbj was still deciding if he wanted play for them or the Cav's (Yes they planned to play with each other); when Lbj got there, they formed a super team; yes there's a difference.lol

And Mj played on a super team as well... One can argue one of the most stacked teams ever.

Two totally different scenarios and you're a fool if you think otherwise. I mean homer.

Lebron clearly has more help the MJ had and MJ actually develop Pippen into the player he became. Lebron on the other hand joined two superstars in their prime to collect titles, weakened the ECF to what it is now, and paved his easy path to the Finals every year from here on out. There is a difference.

There is not doubt this was in there thought process as the 3 colluded to join together. Seriosuly, the East literally went 3 fewer teams without a superstar to one team in Miami having the whole balance of power with all 3 players.

slashsnake
03-08-2014, 01:20 AM
Two totally different scenarios and you're a fool if you think otherwise. I mean homer.

Lebron clearly has more help the MJ had and MJ actually develop Pippen into the player he became. Lebron on the other hand joined two superstars in their prime to collect titles, weakened the ECF to what it is now, and paved his easy path to the Finals every year from here on out. There is a difference.

There is not doubt this was in there thought process as the 3 colluded to join together. Seriosuly, the East literally went 3 fewer teams without a superstar to one team in Miami having the whole balance of power with all 3 players.

So the Lebron has it easy because he gets Wade with his creaky knees missing 1/4 of the season every year and putting up the worst numbers of his career and Jordan had to "deal" with developing a dynamic Scottie Pippen in his prime? What did Pippen miss in that threepeat? One game?

I guess Kobe should be guaranteed a championship next year since he isn't having to develop Steve Nash.

And Bosh with the Heat hasn't looked as good as Grant in the Bulls threepeat years.

I am just saying it is hard to call guys "in their prime" when Bosh and Wade are coming off their worst playoff performances of their careers. Both of their last two years numbers wise have been two of the worst of their careers.

Just because Ron Harper was averaging 20-6-5 before joining the Bulls doesn't mean Jordan only came back and joined up with another star that was taken from another Eastern Team.

Jordan didn't leave because his team went out and got him a big three. They put together a team that when he quit still won 55 games. Lebron was on a team that the second he left, lost the most games ever in a row, and finished with the #1 overall pick.

barreleffact
03-08-2014, 01:48 AM
TBH, think about the things Lebrn is MOST known for: flopping, failing to achieve Jordans excellence in the Finals, and The Decision.

Flipping the switch, MJ would not have had to compete with his own legend. He didn't leave his team. He wasn't a flopper.

MJ was VERY arrogant, and was HIGHLY competitive. Slept with as many women as Wilt most likely, punched Kerr, gambled... Even with all that being said, I am sure he would still be the loveable MJ because he had this air of charisma. He wanted to destroy you. He talked cash ad backed it up. He came into the league as the standard. He made bald "in." To put it simply, if MJ had to come in today and was the exact same guy with the exact same legacy WITHOUT having to compare to his former success as a shadow, he would be regarded every bit as highly IMO and would be even richer. And yes,I acknowledge there would be some flack, but I seriously doubt it affects much. Winning cures all, and that man won!

For comparison, look no further than Lebron before joining Miami. Steven A and Skip used to rip him everyday. It would be like, "Lebron ate breakfast??? How can you stand to eat when you havent won a ring?" (Stephen A voice) Yet now that he won, they suck his jock harder than a vacuum.

Dade County
03-08-2014, 01:58 AM
Two totally different scenarios and you're a fool if you think otherwise. I mean homer.

Lebron clearly has more help the MJ had and MJ actually develop Pippen into the player he became. Lebron on the other hand joined two superstars in their prime to collect titles, weakened the ECF to what it is now, and paved his easy path to the Finals every year from here on out. There is a difference.

There is not doubt this was in there thought process as the 3 colluded to join together. Seriosuly, the East literally went 3 fewer teams without a superstar to one team in Miami having the whole balance of power with all 3 players.

I stopped at the BOLD...

Before I can read any further, answer this quick question. Can this Miami HEAT team (or last year team), beat Jordan bulls (2nd 3 peat era) in a playoff series? If your answer is no, delete yourself... If your answer is yes, i'll keep reading your post.


(I am not going to let you haters have it both ways, it's either Jordan team was more stack, or the HEAT could beat the Mj bulls in a playoff series (since Lbj has soooo much help, more help then Mj)... pick one)

barreleffact
03-08-2014, 02:02 AM
So the Lebron has it easy because he gets Wade with his creaky knees missing 1/4 of the season every year and putting up the worst numbers of his career and Jordan had to "deal" with developing a dynamic Scottie Pippen in his prime? What did Pippen miss in that threepeat? One game?

I guess Kobe should be guaranteed a championship next year since he isn't having to develop Steve Nash.

And Bosh with the Heat hasn't looked as good as Grant in the Bulls threepeat years.

I am just saying it is hard to call guys "in their prime" when Bosh and Wade are coming off their worst playoff performances of their careers. Both of their last two years numbers wise have been two of the worst of their careers.

Just because Ron Harper was averaging 20-6-5 before joining the Bulls doesn't mean Jordan only came back and joined up with another star that was taken from another Eastern Team.

Jordan didn't leave because his team went out and got him a big three. They put together a team that when he quit still won 55 games. Lebron was on a team that the second he left, lost the most games ever in a row, and finished with the #1 overall pick.

I HATE when people bring this up. When Lebron left, about half the team AND the coach left with him. They would not have been NEARLY as bad had it only been Lebron that left.

curtcocaine
03-08-2014, 02:08 AM
you clearly didn't read the question which is funny... i said assume career achievements stayed the same, how would the media of todays day and age effect michael jordans overall perception??

gtfo you clown

Damn u on ur period

curtcocaine
03-08-2014, 02:10 AM
I HATE when people bring this up. When Lebron left, about half the team AND the coach left with him. They would not have been NEARLY as bad had it only been Lebron that left.

Yea they wernt taking lmfao

slashsnake
03-08-2014, 03:16 AM
I HATE when people bring this up. When Lebron left, about half the team AND the coach left with him. They would not have been NEARLY as bad had it only been Lebron that left.

Mike Brown, along with Shaq (for 2/3 of the season) a year before retirement, and Delonte West (who scored 5 a game the season he left and was out of the league the following year) make that team much better? The Cavs were 19-3 in the games Lebron played and Shaq didn't.

And why were they just as bad without him when Lebron was there but not playing? Lebron missed 14 games the previous 3 years and they were 2-12 in that time.

Maybe I am alone with this, but I don't see Mike Brown as a great coach who gets teams a lot more wins than an average coach. Byron Scott in my opinion wasn't any worse, he got a team to back to back finals appearances.

As for the team... They lost a 12 point, 7 board Shaq who Cleveland still won without him and Delonte West who went on to be a 5 point a game scorer and fell out of the league the next year. Both guys they won a lot of games without when Lebron was there.

They weren't good when Varejao and Mo Williams were playing even though they were injured a lot the year after Lebron left. It wasn't like they were .500 when healthy and then the injuries hit and they fell off.

They added Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions and didn't win any more games though Sessions outplayed Williams at the point and Davis outplayed Jawad Williams. But they were still a good team with Lebron in the games Shaq, Jamison, and Mo Williams were out in the years before.

The cavs had Lebron out of the starting lineup 14 times his last 3 years in Cleveland and were 2-12 in those games with Mike Brown and the same team that won an average of 57 games a year in that span. They kept that same poor record without him going when he left for Miami. If that was a winning team or even a close to winning team without him, maybe. But they were awful without Lebron when he was in Cleveland with that "great roster" or when he wasn't.


I guess I don't understand what your point is. Half the team didn't leave, most of it remained and they replaced an old Shaq and Delonte West who missed over 50 games combined the year before with Ramon Sessions and Baron Davis. To me that doesn't swing you 20 wins to a respectable losing record.

I certainly don't think they win just two less games at 59 wins (like the bulls won two less when Jordan left) with Mike Brown, Delonte West, and an aged Shaq.

Oh I almost forgot Ilgauskas, who gave the Cavs 1.7 boards and points per game for their playoff run and was on his way out of the league. But Ilgauskas at his best helped Cleveland to a record which netted them Lebron, so at his retirement he wasn't helping anyone.

Kushed
03-08-2014, 05:26 AM
Mike Brown, along with Shaq (for 2/3 of the season) a year before retirement, and Delonte West (who scored 5 a game the season he left and was out of the league the following year) make that team much better? The Cavs were 19-3 in the games Lebron played and Shaq didn't.

And why were they just as bad without him when Lebron was there but not playing? Lebron missed 14 games the previous 3 years and they were 2-12 in that time.

Maybe I am alone with this, but I don't see Mike Brown as a great coach who gets teams a lot more wins than an average coach. Byron Scott in my opinion wasn't any worse, he got a team to back to back finals appearances.

As for the team... They lost a 12 point, 7 board Shaq who Cleveland still won without him and Delonte West who went on to be a 5 point a game scorer and fell out of the league the next year. Both guys they won a lot of games without when Lebron was there.

They weren't good when Varejao and Mo Williams were playing even though they were injured a lot the year after Lebron left. It wasn't like they were .500 when healthy and then the injuries hit and they fell off.

They added Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions and didn't win any more games though Sessions outplayed Williams at the point and Davis outplayed Jawad Williams. But they were still a good team with Lebron in the games Shaq, Jamison, and Mo Williams were out in the years before.

The cavs had Lebron out of the starting lineup 14 times his last 3 years in Cleveland and were 2-12 in those games with Mike Brown and the same team that won an average of 57 games a year in that span. They kept that same poor record without him going when he left for Miami. If that was a winning team or even a close to winning team without him, maybe. But they were awful without Lebron when he was in Cleveland with that "great roster" or when he wasn't.


I guess I don't understand what your point is. Half the team didn't leave, most of it remained and they replaced an old Shaq and Delonte West who missed over 50 games combined the year before with Ramon Sessions and Baron Davis. To me that doesn't swing you 20 wins to a respectable losing record.

I certainly don't think they win just two less games at 59 wins (like the bulls won two less when Jordan left) with Mike Brown, Delonte West, and an aged Shaq.

Oh I almost forgot Ilgauskas, who gave the Cavs 1.7 boards and points per game for their playoff run and was on his way out of the league. But Ilgauskas at his best helped Cleveland to a record which netted them Lebron, so at his retirement he wasn't helping anyone.

Great post which I why I consider LeBron James to be a top 5 player ever already. The way in which he made every single player on his team better is almost unparalleled. It's something that people really undervalue. He elevated everyone's game to be able to get them to that win/loss record every season and with the numbers you pointed out when he didn't play, that shows you everything you need to know right there.

How many players in the history of the game could have done what LeBron did on a yearly basis with the teammates he had around him? Not very many at all.

slashsnake
03-08-2014, 06:05 AM
Great post which I why I consider LeBron James to be a top 5 player ever already. The way in which he made every single player on his team better is almost unparalleled. It's something that people really undervalue. He elevated everyone's game to be able to get them to that win/loss record every season and with the numbers you pointed out when he didn't play, that shows you everything you need to know right there.

How many players in the history of the game could have done what LeBron did on a yearly basis with the teammates he had around him? Not very many at all.

Thanks, it is not a knock against any other player, and IMO Jordan is still a HOF career ahead of Lebron. By that I mean put their careers against each other and you could put a guy in the HOF with what Jordan has done that Lebron has not yet accomplished.

But when the Cavs lost Lebron, they lost everything. The guy who from the season before made the most shots, most free throws, most threes, most two's, most defensive rebounds, most steals, most blocks, most assists, most points.. The only major category he didn't lead that team in was offensive boards.

John Walls Era
03-08-2014, 07:03 AM
Cleveland or Miami.... very hard decision. I'm sure everyone here would have been loyal and chose one of God's least favorite places.

Badluck33
03-08-2014, 07:35 AM
Utah Jazz and the Phoenix suns win more championships, thats for sure.

Bartlee23
03-08-2014, 09:31 AM
The HEAT were not a super team, when Lbj was still deciding if he wanted play for them or the Cav's (Yes they planned to play with each other); when Lbj got there, they formed a super team; yes there's a difference.lol

And Mj played on a super team as well... One can argue one of the most stacked teams ever.

That's obviously what I meant. Sorry if you couldn't understand. Look at the players throughout Chicago's championship years. Other than Jordan, Pippen, Rodman and Grant, not one player was of all-star status. ( I realize being an all-star doesn't mean everything.)

Chicago was made up of role players who played far beyond their capability probably because of Jordan's will to win. Besides Jordan and Pippen were on the floor 38-40 minutes a game, never played with a true center and always had a good power forward to go with several players who could shoot to space the floor.

Go look at the rosters again and tell me who is more stacked I think you'lll be surprised.

Bartlee23
03-08-2014, 09:43 AM
cause his FO got him his help, and the winningest coach ever.....

Besides, all of this needs to be put into perspective. When Jordan started his pro career, this nation was still a nation where loyalty existed. When LeBron entered the league, we had already crept into the entitlement mentality in our youth. Young people now flip around companies all the time. Back in the day, you stayed with your company forever.

Why are sports any different?

Tell me who these players are who the FO got him to get him over the top? Cartwright ? Harper? Kerr? Rodman? Kukoc? These were good players but not great players. Cartwright was on his last legs, Harper had no knees, Kerr was an excellent shooter but was a liability on defense, Rodman was at the end of his career and not the same player from Detroit and Kukoc was a good European player but never quite caught on to the NBA game.

Chicago went through the nature progression to where they got beat down by Boston and Detroit so bad that eventually with age Jordan and Pippen became the more dominant players. They played 38-40 minutes a game and really didn't need a great cast around them because of their dominance.

Phil Jackson was already an assistant coach on the team he just took over and developed a different relationship with the players that they trusted in and made the team successful.

You are correct about your loyality point but answering the question to why people look at Lebron different than Jordan is exactly what I stated.

Dade County
03-08-2014, 10:33 AM
That's obviously what I meant. Sorry if you couldn't understand. Look at the players throughout Chicago's championship years. Other than Jordan, Pippen, Rodman and Grant, not one player was of all-star status. ( I realize being an all-star doesn't mean everything.)

Chicago was made up of role players who played far beyond their capability probably because of Jordan's will to win. Besides Jordan and Pippen were on the floor 38-40 minutes a game, never played with a true center and always had a good power forward to go with several players who could shoot to space the floor.

Go look at the rosters again and tell me who is more stacked I think you'lll be surprised.

They had longly...

And I wanted be surprise if i re-looked at the bulls roster from their 2nd 3peat... I just would like for you and others to admit then, that this HEAT team and last years, would beat any of Jordan bulls team in a series then.

:)

Bartlee23
03-08-2014, 12:49 PM
They had longly...

And I wanted be surprise if i re-looked at the bulls roster from their 2nd 3peat... I just would like for you and others to admit then, that this HEAT team and last years, would beat any of Jordan bulls team in a series then.

:)

Yea you're right.... they had Longly he was the difference maker...... Different era's, different rules. It definitely would be a great match-up but me personally am not about to hand over the title to a team that again like I stated had two great players and a bunch of good role players and formed the greatest team to date of all-time 72-10 season with great competition. Miami lost to Dallas, won in a SHORTENED season and barely won last year if it wasn't by a last second shot by Allen. How do you think that is better than the domination Chicago had?

I give credit where credit is due but please......

benny01
03-08-2014, 04:30 PM
Thanks, it is not a knock against any other player, and IMO Jordan is still a HOF career ahead of Lebron. By that I mean put their careers against each other and you could put a guy in the HOF with what Jordan has done that Lebron has not yet accomplished.

But when the Cavs lost Lebron, they lost everything. The guy who from the season before made the most shots, most free throws, most threes, most two's, most defensive rebounds, most steals, most blocks, most assists, most points.. The only major category he didn't lead that team in was offensive boards.
This and This.
I know that we like to compare today's guy's to all time greats, but in some cases like the MJ/LBJ debate, it's way too soon. Have fun and watch the greatest player in the world for the next 5-6 seasons of his career, and then this will be a fun and interesting conversation to have. Then we will have a little better picture. We do this all the time in here and it's stupid speculation. The exact same case could be made in the LBJ/Durant argument. Durant has work to do. Is it too early for me to make a MJ/Parker thread or should I wait until Parker has some actual accomplishments first?

As for the OP's question, who gives a ****, they play different positions. Niether could do what the other does, Magic/Pippen/LBJ would be a better argument. Some of you guys need to watch Jordan and LBJ actually play and you would have a little better insight, you also might see how foolish you look sometimes. If we are looking at media coverage and physical play of each era Jordan wins either debate. Jordan would feel a lot dirtier to us, but hearing that he was the greatest every five seconds rather than 3-4 times a day i'm guessing would help his legacy. While both get their share of ridiculous fouls, they got away with more fouls in the paint and more and harder hard fouls in the paint for sure. Seeing that LBJ's strength is in the paint versus on the perimeter, my guess is that his percentages go down slightly.

The super team debate is my favorite, Jordan had Pippen/Grant and Pippen/Rodman plus great role players, LBJ has had in only two Wade/Bosh and Wade/Bosh/Allen and great role players. Now I know that we don't talk about Paxson/Chalmers, but with a few more rings we will, which is my point. Success makes us look at role players in a different light. Any team, with the exception of Hakeem first championship team, in both era's were full of "great" players.

LBJ may get there at some point. He and Durant seem to be most likely at this point, but both need to kiss 3-4 golden basketballs yet before there is even a realistic conversation.

benny01
03-08-2014, 04:52 PM
They had longly...

And I wanted be surprise if i re-looked at the bulls roster from their 2nd 3peat... I just would like for you and others to admit then, that this HEAT team and last years, would beat any of Jordan bulls team in a series then.

:)
No, the difference can be summed up very easily. Jordan hits Allen's shot to win. Not only that one, but countless others just like it. Jordan cut throats for his teams, like Shaw did for the Lakers teams, Like Ray Allen and Mike Miller did for those teams, like Kobe did for his teams. Lebron is a passer who gets his points in the paint, and has a very good jump shot. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but again they are different players. Jordan ended games like putting one foot in front of the other. I can only assume that you haven't seen Jordan in the playoffs if your missing this. Jordan's teams win over Lebron's, as they have Jordan. If they both had Lebron the Heat win. Your premise rely's on me believing that Lebron is equal to Jordan and he's not.

Kaner
03-08-2014, 05:40 PM
It mostly depends on how the media chooses to portray Jordan and what stories they focused in on. I mean Kobe was accused of Rape and nobody gives a **** because after it blew over he won and his legacy hasn't been affected by it.

Dade County
03-08-2014, 07:21 PM
Yea you're right.... they had Longly he was the difference maker...... Different era's, different rules. It definitely would be a great match-up but me personally am not about to hand over the title to a team that again like I stated had two great players and a bunch of good role players and formed the greatest team to date of all-time 72-10 season with great competition. Miami lost to Dallas, won in a SHORTENED season and barely won last year if it wasn't by a last second shot by Allen. How do you think that is better than the domination Chicago had?

I give credit where credit is due but please......

I don't think you get what I am saying. If you feel that Mj bulls would beat the HEAT in a playoff series (I have no problem with anyone thinking this way), then what you are telling me is that Mj team was better then the HEAT team. But I am not going to let you or other posters then turn around and say, that Lbj team is more talented.

Thats all... So it's one or the other.

If you want to say that the HEAT could beat Mj bulls, then sure you can say that Lbj has more help then Mj ever had; and the HEAT are a more talented team, and they would beat Mj bulls.

So where do you stand?


No, the difference can be summed up very easily. Jordan hits Allen's shot to win. Not only that one, but countless others just like it. Jordan cut throats for his teams, like Shaw did for the Lakers teams, Like Ray Allen and Mike Miller did for those teams, like Kobe did for his teams. Lebron is a passer who gets his points in the paint, and has a very good jump shot. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but again they are different players. Jordan ended games like putting one foot in front of the other. I can only assume that you haven't seen Jordan in the playoffs if your missing this. Jordan's teams win over Lebron's, as they have Jordan. If they both had Lebron the Heat win. Your premise rely's on me believing that Lebron is equal to Jordan and he's not.

I did watch Jordan play...

And there is no way in hell I am comparing Mj & Lbj, wash your mouth out with soup Sir.

Also, I don't care if the bulls could beat this HEAT team, what I care about is that whoever says that Mj bulls are better then this HEAT team, can't turn around and say that Lbj team is more talented.

Thats all.

JordansBulls
03-08-2014, 07:57 PM
Jordan was a pure and honest man. He didn't have tattoos or anything like that and was a faithful man with no deception at all. So in this era it would be tough to see anything wrong with him.

Shlumpledink
03-08-2014, 08:09 PM
...

bootypants
03-08-2014, 08:52 PM
Great post which I why I consider LeBron James to be a top 5 player ever already. The way in which he made every single player on his team better is almost unparalleled. It's something that people really undervalue. He elevated everyone's game to be able to get them to that win/loss record every season and with the numbers you pointed out when he didn't play, that shows you everything you need to know right there.

How many players in the history of the game could have done what LeBron did on a yearly basis with the teammates he had around him? Not very many at all.


Not kobe.

& MJ had a team that won 50+ without him.


Not sure there is ANYTHING else that needs to be said.
Just sit back and let the era end and in 15 years we will all look back.

Dade County
03-08-2014, 10:16 PM
Jordan was a pure and honest man. He didn't have tattoos or anything like that and was a faithful man with no deception at all. So in this era it would be tough to see anything wrong with him.

Not to his wife.. And thats more important that any game, movie, commercial...etc .

Bartlee23
03-08-2014, 10:36 PM
[QUOTE=Dade County;28102710]I don't think you get what I am saying. If you feel that Mj bulls would beat the HEAT in a playoff series (I have no problem with anyone thinking this way), then what you are telling me is that Mj team was better then the HEAT team. But I am not going to let you or other posters then turn around and say, that Lbj team is more talented.

Thats all... So it's one or the other.

If you want to say that the HEAT could beat Mj bulls, then sure you can say that Lbj has more help then Mj ever had; and the HEAT are a more talented team, and they would beat Mj bulls.

So where do you stand?

Miami has had the luxury of playing with three of the top players in the game in their prime one being maybe the best 5-10 all time at the the present time. They also have the greatest three point shooter of all time as well as some very servicable role players.

Chicago had two of the top players in the game in their prime along with again some very servicable role players but what Chicago had the upper hand in was

#1 Coaching. I believe Phil Jackson was able to take those teams and gel what he had into some of the greatest teams we have seen all-time. Spoelstra is a good coach but in my opinion Jackson was more of a leader than him and got all players to buy into the system.

#2. Jordan's will to win. This is something you here about all the time is Jordan's competitiveness whether it's playing golf,cards,ping pong,etc. He wanted to win in whatever he did and that is very contagious. That's is the point I brought up earlier about players playing beyond their means.

Chicago played in a different era with different rules so the question can never be answered but to date Chicago played tougher teams, dominated,them had a 72-10 season and went undefeated in the finals.

Miami lost to Dallas, beat a very young Thunder team in a shorten season and barely beat an older Spurs team if it wasn't for a Ray Allen three pointer.

You tell me who the better team was.... I think you know.

beliges
03-08-2014, 11:00 PM
I ask this question from a media standpoint.

We constantly see people complain again and again and again about how media outlets cover LeBron James non-stop all of the time 24/7.

There is no doubt in my mind that this coverage has shed a negative light on LeBron James in many people's eyes even though it isn't necessarily deserved. He doesn't create these stories yet people can't stand it and use that as a reason to not like him.



Now bring in Michael Jordan and this coverage would be 10x worse. We are talking about the greatest player EVER. A player that played in an era where there wasn't twitter, there was non-stop coverage, not stop scrutiny. MJ wasn't a saint. He had a gambling problem, he did his things that would have been questionable in the eyes of the world today but the coverage just wasn't there.



Would MJ's legacy been different in todays era? Lets assume his career achievements stayed the same, but would his global perception been as good as it is considering when he played?

The "Lebron era" has been 2-3 years so far. Let the guy have his era first.

slashsnake
03-08-2014, 11:14 PM
No, the difference can be summed up very easily. Jordan hits Allen's shot to win.

I thought Paxson hit that shot. ;)

Honestly, I don't think anyone will come close to Jordan with hitting game winners late in big games.

slashsnake
03-09-2014, 12:16 AM
[QUOTE=Dade County;28102710]I don't think you get what I am saying. If you feel that Mj bulls would beat the HEAT in a playoff series (I have no problem with anyone thinking this way), then what you are telling me is that Mj team was better then the HEAT team. But I am not going to let you or other posters then turn around and say, that Lbj team is more talented.

Thats all... So it's one or the other.

If you want to say that the HEAT could beat Mj bulls, then sure you can say that Lbj has more help then Mj ever had; and the HEAT are a more talented team, and they would beat Mj bulls.

So where do you stand?

Miami has had the luxury of playing with three of the top players in the game in their prime one being maybe the best 5-10 all time athe the present time. They also have the greatest three point shooter of all time as well as some very servicable role players.

Chicago had two of the top players in the game in their prime along with again some very servicable role players but what Chicago had the upper hand in was

#1 Coaching. I believe Phil Jackson was able to take those teams and gel what he had into some of the greatest teams we have seen all-time. Spoelstra is a good coach but in my opinion Jackson was more of a leader than him and got all players to buy into the system.

#2. Jordan's will to win. This is something you here about all the time is Jordan's competitiveness whether it's playing golf,cards,ping pong,etc. He wanted to win in whatever he did and that is very contagious. That's is the point I brought up earlier about players playing beyond their means.

Chicago played in a different era with different rules so the question can never be answered but to date Chicago played tougher teams dominated them had a 72-10 season and went undefeated in the finals.

Miami lost to Dallas, beat a very young Thunder team in a shorten season and barely beat an older Spurs team if it wasn't for a Ray Allen three pointer.

You tell me who the better team was.... I think you know.

Well Armstrong in his prime is better than anything on the heat outside the big three in my opinion and I'd say Grant is better than Bosh during the Heat title run.

No offense, but if you've watched Wade play the past two years (or not play), he isn't anywhere close to "prime" Wade. Back to Back to Back 8 point games is not Prime Wade. 12 points a game in the Chicago series isn't prime wade. Prime Wade scored 33 a game in the playoffs, got you 7 assists and 6 boards. Not sat out games and got you 15 a game in a playoff run. Same with Bosh. He was a 23-10 guy in his prime, not a zero points in game 7, 17-7 guy (or 12-7 in the playoffs) who flat out disappeared for games.

Seriously, look at the playoffs between Bosh and Grant. Not counting Grant's physical defense, his better passing, his more consistent shooting, his better defense, they were identical. I'd take Grant in a heartbeat over Bosh if I was Miami even if he isn't crowned a "big 3" by the media. I think Grant vs. Duncan doesn't make 37 year old Timmy look like 25 year old Timmy.

Same with Pippen. I'd take him in his title runs over Wade the past two years. Pippen was a better player in every facet of the game his title years than Wade has been in his recent title years.

I made this point before. Just because Ron Harper came to the bulls as a consistent 20-5-5 guy doesn't mean Jordan got another star. Just because Bosh and Wade were great in their prime doesn't mean they still are elite players.

The Bulls were good enough to win 55 games without Jordan. I don't see the Heat winning 55 even in a much weaker conference without Lebron. Do you?

Lebron when he was losing his 2nd championship series, this time to Dallas was the same age as Jordan when he was choking away his 2nd straight eastern conference finals series.

Lebron at 29 is chasing his 3rd title same as Jordan was at 29.





If you were to hear that down 3-2 in a series against the spurs last year, knowing Wade and Bosh would be averaging 12 points a game over the last games, would you believe that the heat could win? If I threw in that Ray Allen would be getting you 4.5 a game, shooting 25% and just 20% from downtown to close out the series, would that help? What if I added in Duncan would eat up the heat bigs to a tune of 27 and 15 the rest of the way?

Miami's great team with Bosh, Wade, and Allen when down 2-3 in the finals, averaged 9 points a game the rest of the way, the three combined to equal Tim Duncan's scoring alone, and Miami won out.

Ray’s shot was big. He missed a lot more big ones that could have won that game earlier though. Lebron averaging 35 points 11 boards, 7.5 assists, and 2.5 steals when up against elimination is what won that series. Just like Jordan, not Paxson won his finals.


That was one of the biggest one man shows to close out a series that I've seen. They shouldn't have beaten that team, you are right, just look how awful 3 of their 4 best guys were. Seriously, your #2, #3, and #4 scoring options combine to get you 28 points a game for back to back elimination games?

Rndy
03-09-2014, 04:32 AM
I hate playing this game because it's just that a different game. I believe Lebron would dominate any era and I'm not trying to disrespect Lebron in any way but if Jordan played in this ERA it wouldn't be fair. Like it or not offenses are rewarded now more than ever and it's much easier to pad your offensive stats. Michael Jordan would dominate this league the guy got calls that nobody ever did in an era where nobody got calls. Imagine in this era where jump shooters get 9+ FTA per game and think how gross Michael Jordans calls would be.

Rndy
03-09-2014, 04:34 AM
Getting into your debate for a second I'm not so sure who would win I'd go with the Bulls teams mostly because I'm a giant ****ing homer. But how interesting would that be? Jordan vs Wade Lebron vs Pippen Bosh vs Rodman Kerr vs Allen Kukoc vs Battier haha god it would be something to see. The 1 on 1 match ups alone would be priceless

In the end Beasely says **** you for not drafting me in the future and wins it all. :win:

Bartlee23
03-09-2014, 10:10 AM
[QUOTE=Bartlee23;28103801]

Well Armstrong in his prime is better than anything on the heat outside the big three in my opinion and I'd say Grant is better than Bosh during the Heat title run.

Armstrong in my opinion was more a product of the system. Good shooter, especially since he was wide open a lot with Jordan and Pippen being double teamed. Nothing to write home about with his defensive game. Once he left Chicago I never heard anything about him..... did you?

No offense, but if you've watched Wade play the past two years (or not play), he isn't anywhere close to "prime" Wade. Back to Back to Back 8 point games is not Prime Wade. 12 points a game in the Chicago series isn't prime wade. Prime Wade scored 33 a game in the playoffs, got you 7 assists and 6 boards. Not sat out games and got you 15 a game in a playoff run. Same with Bosh. He was a 23-10 guy in his prime, not a zero points in game 7, 17-7 guy (or 12-7 in the playoffs) who flat out disappeared for games.
You're giving small sample sizes. Pippen had bad games too. Remember the game he refused to go back in?

Seriously, look at the playoffs between Bosh and Grant. Not counting Grant's physical defense, his better passing, his more consistent shooting, his better defense, they were identical. I'd take Grant in a heartbeat over Bosh if I was Miami even if he isn't crowned a "big 3" by the media. I think Grant vs. Duncan doesn't make 37 year old Timmy look like 25 year old Timmy.

Different players.... Grant never led a franchise Bosh did. You're telling me if you had someone on your team to take a last shot you would let grant take it over Bosh or if you were drafting you would pick Grant over Bosh? Well to each their own. They have two different styles and will give you different things. It just depends on the need of the team.

Same with Pippen. I'd take him in his title runs over Wade the past two years. Pippen was a better player in every facet of the game his title years than Wade has been in his recent title years.

Pippen I would take over Wade only because he's a favorite player of mine not because Wade is worse. You could go back all day with that argument and it will come down to matter of opinion.

I made this point before. Just because Ron Harper came to the bulls as a consistent 20-5-5 guy doesn't mean Jordan got another star. Just because Bosh and Wade were great in their prime doesn't mean they still are elite players.

Ron Harper did not come to the Bulls as a 20-5-5 guy. He came to the Bulls with shot knees and lost a step ( or two) Harper played roughly 20 minutes a game and averaged no mre than 7 points a game.

The Bulls were good enough to win 55 games without Jordan. I don't see the Heat winning 55 even in a much weaker conference without Lebron. Do you?

Actually I see them winning around 50 games.

Lebron when he was losing his 2nd championship series, this time to Dallas was the same age as Jordan when he was choking away his 2nd straight eastern conference finals series.

Lebron at 29 is chasing his 3rd title same as Jordan was at 29.





If you were to hear that down 3-2 in a series against the spurs last year, knowing Wade and Bosh would be averaging 12 points a game over the last games, would you believe that the heat could win? If I threw in that Ray Allen would be getting you 4.5 a game, shooting 25% and just 20% from downtown to close out the series, would that help? What if I added in Duncan would eat up the heat bigs to a tune of 27 and 15 the rest of the way?

Miami's great team with Bosh, Wade, and Allen when down 2-3 in the finals, averaged 9 points a game the rest of the way, the three combined to equal Tim Duncan's scoring alone, and Miami won out.

Ray’s shot was big. He missed a lot more big ones that could have won that game earlier though. Lebron averaging 35 points 11 boards, 7.5 assists, and 2.5 steals when up against elimination is what won that series. Just like Jordan, not Paxson won his finals.


That was one of the biggest one man shows to close out a series that I've seen. They shouldn't have beaten that team, you are right, just look how awful 3 of their 4 best guys were. Seriously, your #2, #3, and #4 scoring options combine to get you 28 points a game for back to back elimination games?

I'm not sure where the rest of your rambling is going? I said Chicago had the better team but you just keep bringing up things that either aren't true or a matter of opinion. I suggest you go reread what I wrote before responding.

D-Leethal
03-09-2014, 10:13 AM
LeBron goes home battered and bruised way more often.

ghettosean
03-09-2014, 11:35 AM
His legacy would stay the same he might be perceived as either meaner or a better leader than he is thought of now for the way he cusses out his teammates but he would still be considered the undisputed GOAT but thats assuming his achievements are the same in today's game... lol. If he played in this soft league his achievements in pretty much all categories would go up making his legacy much greater than it is now.

There is no way he would get the negative media Lebron gets today. Jordan would not self name himself he would not flop, he would not predict how many championships he would win, he would not say were his legacy will be at the end of his career when he's 30, he wouldn't bolt to play with the 2nd best player in the league, he wouldn't invite media to a practice facility to have his own competition-less dunk off against himself and say he would win the current one without ever entering, he wouldn't... well I could go on for pages but I think we get the picture. Jordan was media savy when he was on camera and 99.9% of all the things I mentioned about Lebron and could continue going on about were all on camera directly to the media.

To sum it up I think his legacy and image BOTH would be better in today's game for MJ. Lebron would be similar to today's in regards to image because most of the idiotic things he does is directly addressed to the media and his legacy would take a hit because he would be playing in todays soft league and he's not averaging close to anywhere near the inflated stats he's putting up in today's game (I'm sorry he's just not) Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Rodman (on defense)... etc would eat him alive! LOL

Kushed
03-09-2014, 12:52 PM
The "Lebron era" has been 2-3 years so far. Let the guy have his era first.

Ummmm LeBron is the most scrutinized player in the history of the game and that started in high school which was over 10 years ago.....

beliges
03-09-2014, 05:57 PM
The "Lebron era" has been 2-3 years so far. Let the guy have his era first.

Ummmm LeBron is the most scrutinized player in the history of the game and that started in high school which was over 10 years ago.....

Don't think lebron is the most scrutinized player in the game at all. Furthermore, before 2010, the era belonged to someone else. Lebron just started winning a few years ago. His era will go down as 2010 and on.