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View Full Version : Add Kobe to the Lakers in the 80's and Lebron to the Celtics in the 80's?



JordansBulls
03-06-2014, 03:17 PM
Add Kobe Bryant to the Lakers in the 80's and Lebron to the Celtics in the 80's.

Who wins each season?

Let's start with 2001 Kobe and 2006 Lebron


So in

1980 - Lakers get 2001 Kobe and Celtics get 2006 Lebron

1981 - Lakers get 2002 Kobe and Celtics get 2007 Lebron

1982 - Lakers get 2003 Kobe and Celtics get 2008 Lebron

etc

lakerfan85
03-06-2014, 03:29 PM
Who do they replace??

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 03:30 PM
Who do they replace??

exactly. The Celtics had Bird/McHale, the Lakers Cooper/Scott/Worthy/Wilkes

Heatcheck
03-06-2014, 03:33 PM
exactly. The Celtics had Bird/McHale, the Lakers Cooper/Scott/Worthy/Wilkes

I think that's pretty obvious. LeBron can play anywhere 1-4, and Byron scott can go ahead and carve his name on his favorite spot on the bench.

KnicksorBust
03-06-2014, 03:35 PM
Ironically it would have been better if Kobe had gone to Boston and LeBron to LA.

DJ/LeBron/Bird/McHale/Parish vs. Magic/Cooper/Kobe/Worthy/Kareem

Give me BOS in 6.

JordansBulls
03-06-2014, 03:44 PM
They are just added to both teams. Means someone else goes to the bench. Basically they get more super.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 03:47 PM
I think that's pretty obvious. LeBron can play anywhere 1-4, and Byron scott can go ahead and carve his name on his favorite spot on the bench.

what about Cooper? He was easily their best defensive player to guard perimeter studs.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 03:49 PM
They are just added to both teams. Means someone else goes to the bench. Basically they get more super.

then Boston, simply because LeBron can play a ton of positions. And I believe it knocks Cooper to the bench for the Lakers, which means their defense suffers.

KnicksorBust
03-06-2014, 03:58 PM
then Boston, simply because LeBron can play a ton of positions. And I believe it knocks Cooper to the bench for the Lakers, which means their defense suffers.

I would try a small-ball lineup with Cooper at SG, Kobe at SF, and Worthy at PF (who was listed at 225 to McHale's 210). That way you keep the best players on the floor for LA.

Hellcrooner
03-06-2014, 04:02 PM
then Boston, simply because LeBron can play a ton of positions. And I believe it knocks Cooper to the bench for the Lakers, which means their defense suffers.


magic, kobe , Wilkes, kutchap, Kareem + Nixon cooper

loses to

Archibald, Lebron, Bird, Mchale, Parish


Magic, Kobe, cooper, Worhty, Kareem + Scott and ac Green

destroys

DJ, Lebron, Bird, mchale, PArish + Lewis and ainge

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 04:18 PM
I would try a small-ball lineup with Cooper at SG, Kobe at SF, and Worthy at PF (who was listed at 225 to McHale's 210). That way you keep the best players on the floor for LA.

Boston's size advantage would kill them in that scenario.

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 04:31 PM
James can play with lots of people and in lots of settings. I don't think he disturbs the chemistry in Boston, and plays mostly at the 2 on D and the 1 on O. Him and Larry? McHale in the low post. Hola.

Kobe and KAJ together? What about all the greyhounds on the Lakers? When will they get touches? KAJ is going to lose a lot of touches, he might not like that so much. Chemisty goes south.

Kobe would hurt Boston less at the 2 than in LA IMO, James would be insane on the Lakers at the 3.

MTar786
03-06-2014, 06:36 PM
lakers easily

beliges
03-06-2014, 08:37 PM
then Boston, simply because LeBron can play a ton of positions. And I believe it knocks Cooper to the bench for the Lakers, which means their defense suffers.

Lol. Adding a pre-prime or prime Kobe does not make any defense suffer. This is too funny. Cooper was a fantastic defender but Kobe was just as good defensively as Cooper.

beliges
03-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Sorry but Kobe on that Lakers team? There would not be much of a chance for Boston. But thats just this one man's opinion. Honestly I think it would be sheer dominance by the Lakers though.

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 08:41 PM
Lol. Adding a pre-prime or prime Kobe does not make any defense suffer. This is too funny. Cooper was a fantastic defender but Kobe was just as good defensively as Cooper.

Ummm... in the playoffs Kobe was very intense on D. Coop was intense on D all the time, ask Bird.

Ebbs
03-06-2014, 08:41 PM
Celtics wouldn't have lost a series against them

beliges
03-06-2014, 08:44 PM
Ummm... in the playoffs Kobe was very intense on D. Coop was intense on D all the time, ask Bird.

Nobody is denying that. Just saying Kobe in his prime and in his youth was every bit as good defensively as Cooper. He certainly would not make the Lakers a worse defensive team as the poster was alluding to. Just sayin, sometimes people post the funniest stuff.

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 08:46 PM
Sorry but Kobe on that Lakers team? There would not be much of a chance for Boston. But thats just this one man's opinion. Honestly I think it would be sheer dominance by the Lakers though.

If two balls are legal, sure.

Dissension galore with Kobe. Tell me ANYONE what super star player did Kobe ever blend with? Well the Lakers of the 80's have two. Everyone thinks Magic had the big smile, and was a friendly guy. He was a fierce competitor - and just look at him and Isiah when he had enough. If Kobe wasn't going to bend himself to be other than that guy that scores 60 with 0 assists there would have been problems. As for KAJ, I don't think he would be amused having 12 points or so shaved off his average with Kobe, and what of the other fast break pass to the open player guys? Think they'd like the iso trip? Not me.

Too many here glorify scorers and do not pay enough attention to what makes and maintains a good team. Even worse when it's their home team they never want to talk about the shortcomings of their heroes.

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Nobody is denying that. Just saying Kobe in his prime and in his youth was every bit as good defensively as Cooper. He certainly would not make the Lakers a worse defensive team as the poster was alluding to. Just sayin, sometimes people post the funniest stuff.

Read my other post. I don't think Kobe would ruin the Lakers with is D, but I am very sure he would ruin the chemistry of the team with his shoot first second and always approach to the game.

beliges
03-06-2014, 08:52 PM
If two balls are legal, sure.

Dissension galore with Kobe. Tell me ANYONE what super star player did Kobe ever blend with? Well the Lakers of the 80's have two. Everyone thinks Magic had the big smile, and was a friendly guy. He was a fierce competitor - and just look at him and Isiah when he had enough. If Kobe wasn't going to bend himself to be other than that guy that scores 60 with 0 assists there would have been problems. As for KAJ, I don't think he would be amused having 12 points or so shaved off his average with Kobe, and what of the other fast break pass to the open player guys? Think they'd like the iso trip? Not me.

Too many here glorify scorers and do not pay enough attention to what makes and maintains a good team. Even worse when it's their home team they never want to talk about the shortcomings of their heroes.

Dude cmon. Kobe had no holes in his game. His footwork is second to nobody. His post game is one of the greatest ever, his ability to make clutch shots, coupled with his incredibly high bball IQ and his unmatched fundamentals would allow him to blend in with any team. Sorry but what the hell does blending in have to do with winning anyways? If you are arguing that the Lakers would lose because Kobe wouldn't "blend" in, I would successfully counter by pointing out Kobe is the winningest player of his generation, so clearly whatever he does is a recipe for success.

Like I said, people use stupid examples to try to hate on players. Believe me, Magic and Kareem and Worthy, the competitors they were, would love to have played with a guy like Kobe. Throw "blending" in out of the window when you are as highly skilled as Kobe. Others would have altered their game to blend with Kobe.

MickeyMgl
03-06-2014, 09:05 PM
exactly. The Celtics had Bird/McHale, the Lakers Cooper/Scott/Worthy/Wilkes

No disrespect to Byron Scott, but replacing him with Kobe is a no-brainer.

Lebron for either Bird or McHale is not so automatic.

MickeyMgl
03-06-2014, 09:09 PM
then Boston, simply because LeBron can play a ton of positions. And I believe it knocks Cooper to the bench for the Lakers, which means their defense suffers.

Cooper already came off the bench, and he played mostly in the frontcourt through the early and mid 80s.

As far as playing a ton of positions, that's nothing Magic didn't do better. I mean, Lebron's versatility doesn't seem like a tipping point.

MickeyMgl
03-06-2014, 09:19 PM
James can play with lots of people and in lots of settings. I don't think he disturbs the chemistry in Boston, and plays mostly at the 2 on D and the 1 on O. Him and Larry? McHale in the low post. Hola.

Kobe and KAJ together? What about all the greyhounds on the Lakers? When will they get touches? KAJ is going to lose a lot of touches, he might not like that so much. Chemisty goes south.

Kobe would hurt Boston less at the 2 than in LA IMO, James would be insane on the Lakers at the 3.

What about it? It's not like Bryant is unaccustomed to playing with a dominant big man.

The Lakers best lineup actually would keep Scott in, with Magic moving to PF, since that was the Lakers' weakest spot, and Magic was always essentially a point-forward.

Scott-Kobe-Worthy-Magic-Kareem

That gives them lots of versatility, with four players capable of posting, three capable from the arc, four able to run, and Magic would be a stronger rebounder at PF than Worthy would. Worthy was a capable rebounder for a small forward.

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 10:15 PM
Dude cmon. Kobe had no holes in his game.

Do you even get what I'm talking about? Clearly he has top 15 all time talent, but that's when looking at the guy by himself in isolation - this skill - check, that skill - check. Now put him on a team. If its the teams he was on, he fits pretty well and many years tremendously. But we are talking about a HOF/all time great team - other big egos, other guys that can fill the hole. Kobe played with one super star in his career - and what did he do? Chased him out of town. That's not very encouraging is it?


His footwork is second to nobody. His post game is one of the greatest ever

Post game? You mean like McHale and Hakeem? Or like Dantley? Umm. No.


his ability to make clutch shots, coupled with his incredibly high bball IQ and his unmatched fundamentals would allow him to blend in with any team.

His shooting percentages are bordering on making him a volume scorer - you do get that, right?


Sorry but what the hell does blending in have to do with winning anyways? If you are arguing that the Lakers would lose because Kobe wouldn't "blend" in, I would successfully counter by pointing out Kobe is the winningest player of his generation, so clearly whatever he does is a recipe for success.

Again a team with one great player (Shaq and a real good young player) that wins three titles and then with Kobe and co later on are not all time great HOF teams with HOF'ers in all 5 starting slots are they? The amount of offense Kobe had to produce was much higher for the Lakers, and I rarely saw him not dominate the ball (esp. once Shaq left). Could he change? Maybe. But unlike a win at all cost addict like Jordan or provable unselfish players like Magic and Bird? It's not at all clear.


Like I said, people use stupid examples to try to hate on players. Believe me, Magic and Kareem and Worthy, the competitors they were, would love to have played with a guy like Kobe. Throw "blending" in out of the window when you are as highly skilled as Kobe. Others would have altered their game to blend with Kobe.

Sorry, I don't hate Kobe. I just recognize him for what he is - unlike some.

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 10:16 PM
No disrespect to Byron Scott, but replacing him with Kobe is a no-brainer.

Lebron for either Bird or McHale is not so automatic.

That's why he plays ahead of Ford or Tiny and later ahead of Ainge and next to DJ.

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 10:21 PM
What about it? It's not like Bryant is unaccustomed to playing with a dominant big man.

Not like he didn't chase him out of LA.


The Lakers best lineup actually would keep Scott in, with Magic moving to PF, since that was the Lakers' weakest spot, and Magic was always essentially a point-forward.

Scott-Kobe-Worthy-Magic-Kareem

That gives them lots of versatility, with four players capable of posting, three capable from the arc, four able to run, and Magic would be a stronger rebounder at PF than Worthy would. Worthy was a capable rebounder for a small forward.

By the time Worthy and Scott were really good players, KAJ was just about fading out. Early on Wilkes might be in there instead - for instance.

Kingz4L
03-06-2014, 10:39 PM
Bos in 6, Kobe would take all the shots, Lebron would make Bird and others better...no contest

Baller1
03-06-2014, 10:41 PM
Lebron, because Lebron is better.

b@llhog24
03-06-2014, 10:55 PM
Lebron, because Lebron is better.

Best answer so far.

amos1er
03-06-2014, 10:59 PM
All I know is that Bird, McHale, and Parish's stats would go down tremendously as a result. Much like all of Lebron's teammates. Who would win... Tough to say. Depends on how they all mesh together. From what I have seen over the years, Lebron thrives in a setting where he has tons of three point shooters around him. Would Bird become a spot up shooter just to appease Lebron's game? Probly not. Would Bird take a back seat to him like Wade? doubtful. Bird himself said that he would rather have Kobe as a teammate anyways. Probly because he wouldn't want his stats to take such a dump. Such a hypothetical question, so many factors. Would be fun to watch though.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 11:36 PM
Lol. Adding a pre-prime or prime Kobe does not make any defense suffer. This is too funny. Cooper was a fantastic defender but Kobe was just as good defensively as Cooper.

no, he wasn't.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 11:38 PM
Cooper already came off the bench, and he played mostly in the frontcourt through the early and mid 80s.

As far as playing a ton of positions, that's nothing Magic didn't do better. I mean, Lebron's versatility doesn't seem like a tipping point.

Is LeBron guarding Magic a tipping point? Is sure as hell should be. Imagine sending LeBron back to that day, and taking the absolute burden of being the EVERYTHING on offense off of him. He would have guarded Magic as effective or better than Pippen did in the 91' finals.

Oh, and added to an offense that was all about passing and opportunity. Now take into account the 80's was fast break nation, and has there ever been a better player in transition?

Sending LeBron back to the 80's, we would see the most dominant force ever.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 11:41 PM
Lebron, because Lebron is better.

I mean, pretty much. The Celtics and Lakers were basically equal throughout the decade, per say. Adding the better player, and must more versatile player in LeBron, tips this to a pretty easy equation.

desertlakeshow
03-07-2014, 12:18 AM
Ive never seen a team that Magic could not figure out how to beat. Nothing changes by placing Lebron on the team, or Jordan, or any other player.

Magic made everyone around him exponentially better. Kobe on steroids would be a great thing to watch.

I agree that Lebron can play 1-4, but lets not forget that magic actually did play the 5 as a rookie in the NBA finals.

In the finals, not in theory.

Some players today are great, some players from the past are all time greats.

Here is one of Magic's best seasons averages.

1987 - 36.3 MPG, 23.9 PTS, 6.3 REB, 12.2 AST, 1.7 STL, 3.8 TO, 52% FG

I think Magic could easily pass a few less and make one or two more baskets.

Could Lebron score 24 and come close to 12 assists a game?

Anyone willing to bet their house?

JordansBulls
03-07-2014, 12:50 AM
Is LeBron guarding Magic a tipping point? Is sure as hell should be. Imagine sending LeBron back to that day, and taking the absolute burden of being the EVERYTHING on offense off of him. He would have guarded Magic as effective or better than Pippen did in the 91' finals.



nooooo. Guys who play at Lebron's position average more ppg and better FG% in playoffs series on him than they did in the season against other opponents. This has been true of George, Melo and Durant whose FG% and PPG increased against Lebron than what they did in the season.

desertlakeshow
03-07-2014, 01:07 AM
I don't think he could slow James Worthy down with Magic feeding him.

If he has a history of average forwards going off on him in the playoff's, James Worthy would have given him a new name.

James worthy was a bad man.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2014, 01:17 AM
nooooo. Guys who play at Lebron's position average more ppg and better FG% in playoffs series on him than they did in the season against other opponents. This has been true of George, Melo and Durant whose FG% and PPG increased against Lebron than what they did in the season.

show me.

JordansBulls
03-07-2014, 01:28 AM
show me.


2013
Paul George vs Miami 19.4 ppg on 48% FG
on the season he averaged 17.4 ppg on 42% FG


2012
Kevin Durant vs Miami 30.6 ppg on 55% FG
on the season he averaged 28.1 ppg on 51% FG


2012
Carmelo Anthony vs Miami 27.8 ppg on 42% FG
on the season he averaged 22.6 ppg on 45% FG

desertlakeshow
03-07-2014, 01:30 AM
show me.


Show me anything Lebron James has done against an all time great in the playoffs.

desertlakeshow
03-07-2014, 01:33 AM
2013
Paul George vs Miami 19.4 ppg on 48% FG
on the season he averaged 17.4 ppg on 42% FG


2012
Kevin Durant vs Miami 30.6 ppg on 55% FG
on the season he averaged 28.1 ppg on 51% FG


2012
Carmelo Anthony vs Miami 27.8 ppg on 42% FG
on the season he averaged 22.6 ppg on 45% FG

And he would have done way better against James Worthy?


Old school>New school

Bostonjorge
03-07-2014, 03:12 AM
Giving kobe the best point guard ever will be to much for anyone to handle. Kobe will be a even more unstoppable player with magic feeding him the ball in the break and creating for kobe. Magic made his players better and making kobe even more of a unstoppable score is to much for any D.

Bruno
03-07-2014, 03:19 AM
i don't think it would make a difference until the late 80's. Young Bron and Kobe would have taken back seats until at least 1985 or 86 imo. Having Kobe on an 86-91 Lakers would have been huge since thats when KAJ started to slow down. LeBron would have played the Bias role and could have extended Birds career.

MickeyMgl
03-07-2014, 03:33 AM
Do you even get what I'm talking about? Clearly he has top 15 all time talent, but that's when looking at the guy by himself in isolation - this skill - check, that skill - check. Now put him on a team. If its the teams he was on, he fits pretty well and many years tremendously. But we are talking about a HOF/all time great team - other big egos, other guys that can fill the hole. Kobe played with one super star in his career - and what did he do? Chased him out of town. That's not very encouraging is it?

The telling thing is that most people look back on that now and recognize that that one chased himself out of town. Their coach - the closest third party - was quoted just this week saying the team broke up because of Shaq's "clown role".

The better test of this is, How did it work out in the Olympics? Yeah, pretty good. None of what you're talking about materialized. Model teammate, if not MVP. This stuff is not a concern at all.

MickeyMgl
03-07-2014, 03:39 AM
Not like he didn't chase him out of LA.

It's not like he did.

Phil Jackson says Lakers dynasty broke up because of Shaq's 'clown role'.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/02/phil-jackson-shaquille-oneal-kobe-bryant-lakers/

Anyway you slice it - O'Neal's clown role, yelling at the owner in public, himself demanding to be traded, or the simple fact that the results favored the Lakers - it has been abundantly clear for a while now that the Lakers made the right choice.

MickeyMgl
03-07-2014, 03:54 AM
Lol. Adding a pre-prime or prime Kobe does not make any defense suffer. This is too funny. Cooper was a fantastic defender but Kobe was just as good defensively as Cooper.


no, he wasn't.

Better. Cooper was more consistent, but Cooper was pretty much a specialist. Bryant often seemed to pace himself, but when he was able to concentrate on one end (as he did on Team USA, or as he would with a team as loaded as those Lakers) he was a fiend. The more spaced schedule of the playoffs also helped him bring it more frequently at that time of year.

Cooper was particularly effective at ball denial. Bryant at his best was a STIFLING lockdown on-ball defender. Bryant is/was physically stronger than Cooper, too.

The closest comparison to this scenario is what he did for Team USA. Bryant was able to focus on D, and he did so very effectively while also giving the team an occasional offensive boost. He did so without complaint. He embraced the role fully. Bryant would not have to pace himself defensively. THAT Bryant is the one that is better than Cooper defensively.

MickeyMgl
03-07-2014, 04:07 AM
Lebron, because Lebron is better.


I mean, pretty much. The Celtics and Lakers were basically equal throughout the decade, per say. Adding the better player, and must more versatile player in LeBron, tips this to a pretty easy equation.

I disagree that it's about Lebron vs Kobe. I don't think that 5 championships and 9 Finals appearances is "equal" to 3 championships and 5 Finals appearances. It goes beyond that, 2 to 1 head-to-head, and you'd really have to examine the events and storyline of the 1984 series the Lakers lost, and the closeness of that series, and genuinely question which was the better team even THAT year.

I don't suggest that as a credit to the Lakers. All that matters in the end is who is champion, and the Celtics' tactics in that series did get the Lakers out of their game. Seriously... Scoreboard. Yet in a hypothetical like the one being discussed, where it's relevant to gauge an imaginary competitive tipping point, it's reasonable to look at how those head-to-heads shook out. The teams were NOT equal, and not just because the Lakers blew the series in 1984. I mean, the numbers favor them in spite of it.

MickeyMgl
03-07-2014, 04:13 AM
Ive never seen a team that Magic could not figure out how to beat. Nothing changes by placing Lebron on the team, or Jordan, or any other player.

Magic made everyone around him exponentially better. Kobe on steroids would be a great thing to watch.

I agree that Lebron can play 1-4, but lets not forget that magic actually did play the 5 as a rookie in the NBA finals.

In the finals, not in theory.

For me, it's this.

numba1CHANGsta
03-07-2014, 04:37 AM
I seriously don't think history would change at all. Im guessing Kobe replaces Magic and LeBron replaces Bird. I see Kobe winning 4-5 and I see LeBron winning 3-4, Kobe/Worth/Kareem is just too sick

PurpleLynch
03-07-2014, 12:44 PM
It depends also in which year they play.I think 2001 Kobe on La would destroy Boston with Lebron of 2003 just because Kobe's 2000-2001 playoff run was insane(He averaged 29ppg with .469 Fg%,7 rpg,6 apg,1spg,1bpg)with a team that had one of the most dominant center of all time. Then if you choose a year with a better playoff run than Kobe you can say the opposite.Also,the factor of the chemistry is important,also the context of the year is important.I'd say generally that Lakers-Celtics of the '80 with Kobe and Lebron in their prime would be even(and insane).Those two teams maybe better than Bulls of the '90? :D I'm joking obviously.Deep inside me I know this kind of comparison is pretty useless,you do it just for fun.