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View Full Version : Phoenix or OKC - Which franchise was cheaper in letting talent go?



JordansBulls
03-06-2014, 02:49 PM
Phoenix or OKC - Which franchise would you blame more for being cheaper in letting talent go which harmed them in winning titles?

Phoenix obviously with the Joe Johnson situation, and OKC with the James Harden situation.

bleedprple&gold
03-06-2014, 02:53 PM
Phoenix or OKC - Which franchise would you blame more for being cheaper in letting talent go which harmed them in winning titles?

Phoenix obviously with the Joe Johnson situation, and OKC with the James Harden situation.

OKC because Harden was actually worth the money. Phoenix was smart not to overpay for JJ.

5ass
03-06-2014, 03:09 PM
Okc ruined a dynasty in the making

Ebbs
03-06-2014, 03:11 PM
Neither?

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 03:16 PM
Neither. With Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka signed to huge deals, the Thunder simply had no profitable way of keeping Harden long term as well.

The Suns meanwhile, had Jim Jackson and Raja Bell to replace Johnson, who at age 23-24, was going to get paid. In hindsight, it looks even better, because Johnson really never became what many thought he would.

From basketball purposes, the Thunder lose this, only because they would easily be favored to win it all from last year through the next 3-4 years if they retained Harden.

But financially, neither.

poleandreel
03-06-2014, 03:19 PM
Neither. Okc let Harden go, got a capable fill in with Martin, had the best record in the West again. Harden was stuck in a 17ppg role with limited touches. Martin filled that role. Plus we got Lamb, Adams, and the best record in the NBA + didn't have to pay a cent of luxury tax.

Adams is a beast and will be a 10/10 player on 55% fg and a few blocks per game. He has great hands, is tough as ****, plays big and has great finishing ability. He is also only 19 years old so as he matures, he could become a top center in the NBA.

I think that haul, + preserving cap and not paying luxury tax + still having the best record in the West 2 years in a row shows that the trade was a win win for both sides.

KnicksorBust
03-06-2014, 03:28 PM
Both.

Phoenix has a history of selling off picks and talent for nothing and this was during their prime run of Nash-Amar'e when they were running off 55-60 win seasons. Any one correct move could have pushed them into an NBA finals. Inexcusable.

OKC made a huge mistake selling off Harden when at the very least they could have kept him on the books for one more year and made another Finals run. Then used his rights to use a S&T.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 03:33 PM
Both.

Phoenix has a history of selling off picks and talent for nothing and this was during their prime run of Nash-Amar'e when they were running off 55-60 win seasons. Any one correct move could have pushed them into an NBA finals. Inexcusable.

OKC made a huge mistake selling off Harden when at the very least they could have kept him on the books for one more year and made another Finals run. Then used his rights to use a S&T.

I can agree with both of these, I don't think the Joe Johnson loss was bad (but Sarver was always a cheapskate, selling away 1st rounders because he didn't want to take on salary), but the Thunder should have kept Harden one more year. That being said, would they have gotten the same package? Adams is for sure not there now in that instance.

ChiSox219
03-06-2014, 03:39 PM
Harden was under contract for like $5 million dollars, it's one of the worst trades ever.

sunsfan88
03-06-2014, 07:05 PM
Sarver was willing to pay Joe Johnson but Joe Johnson asked Sarver not to match Hawks offer cause he wanted to be "the man" on some team elsewhere.

NoahH
03-06-2014, 07:41 PM
Well PHX made a good call ditching JJ

sunsfan88
03-06-2014, 08:29 PM
Well PHX made a good call ditching JJ

They made a good call ditching Amare too.

NoahH
03-07-2014, 11:51 AM
They made a good call ditching Amare too.

Yup, all around smart organization

KnickaBocka.44
03-07-2014, 12:04 PM
Both.

Phoenix has a history of selling off picks and talent for nothing and this was during their prime run of Nash-Amar'e when they were running off 55-60 win seasons. Any one correct move could have pushed them into an NBA finals. Inexcusable.

OKC made a huge mistake selling off Harden when at the very least they could have kept him on the books for one more year and made another Finals run. Then used his rights to use a S&T.

This. The Suns have traded guys like Luol Deng and Rondo for cash, straight up. They also drafted and traded Nate Robinson and Marcin Gortat in 2005.

Dade County
03-07-2014, 12:56 PM
Neither. Okc let Harden go, got a capable fill in with Martin, had the best record in the West again. Harden was stuck in a 17ppg role with limited touches. Martin filled that role. Plus we got Lamb, Adams, and the best record in the NBA + didn't have to pay a cent of luxury tax.

Adams is a beast and will be a 10/10 player on 55% fg and a few blocks per game. He has great hands, is tough as ****, plays big and has great finishing ability. He is also only 19 years old so as he matures, he could become a top center in the NBA.

I think that haul, + preserving cap and not paying luxury tax + still having the best record in the West 2 years in a row shows that the trade was a win win for both sides.

IF OKC NEVER GETS A RING BEFORE, any of those pieces are RE-TRADED... Then the deal was horrible for OKC; who is going to remember that they had the best record 5yrs from now (no one would even care).

They cost themselves titles... They had a stack team.

Baller1
03-07-2014, 12:58 PM
Both.

Phoenix has a history of selling off picks and talent for nothing and this was during their prime run of Nash-Amar'e when they were running off 55-60 win seasons. Any one correct move could have pushed them into an NBA finals. Inexcusable.

OKC made a huge mistake selling off Harden when at the very least they could have kept him on the books for one more year and made another Finals run. Then used his rights to use a S&T.

Bingo.

sunsfan88
03-07-2014, 04:08 PM
Yup, all around smart organization
Wouldn't say all around smart..definitely made some blunders in drafting and trading away picks but yea that looks behind us for now.

JasonJohnHorn
03-07-2014, 04:09 PM
Phoenix was WAY worse.

They were giving away draft picks so that teams would take contracts off their hands and letting guys walk.

They gave a 2008 pick (Sege Ibaka) and a 2010 pick JUST so Seattle would take Kurt Thomas's contract off their hands. And he only had 8 mill and one year remaining.

They trade Brian Grant and Rondo for a draft pick, which they then traded to the Trailblazers for cash, so they essentially sold two players. That player was Rudy Fernandez, who they sold for 800 000.

They trade Shaq for smaller contracts which they bought out.

They let Joe Johnson walk.

They traded Raja Bell and Boris Diaw to get smaller contracts which they also traded for smaller contracts to the Magic.

The awful thing is, they've made moves that were just plan bad. Sell draft picks? Who does that? Trading a playing AND two first rounders just to save 8 mil for one season, and NOT use that space to sign anybody? Seriously?

The Suns easily.

The Thunder have a different siutation. They already have three guys (Durant, Wety and Ibaka) that are going to demand huge money. Nto all teams can afford four such guys.

2-ONE-5
03-07-2014, 04:16 PM
Thunder prob make the finals last year if Westy didnt go down and as others said they had/have big money tied into Serge, KD, Westy. They keep Harden then Serge has to go and they have noone at the 4 to cover up Perkins bum *** at the 5

D-Leethal
03-07-2014, 04:21 PM
The book is closed on the Suns while OKC looks primed for another title run so at this point I would say PHX because OKC's moves can still net them a championship.

D-Leethal
03-07-2014, 04:21 PM
PHX during Nash's run was pretty much the team you called up if you didn't have a first rounder - they were pretty much guaranteed to sell their pick and trade away talent every year.

sunsfan88
03-07-2014, 04:28 PM
They trade Shaq for smaller contracts which they bought out.

They let Joe Johnson walk.

They traded Raja Bell and Boris Diaw to get smaller contracts which they also traded for smaller contracts to the Magic.



The Suns made a brilliant deal in thr Diaw-Belll trade, are you kidding me? They got Jason Richardson who they later turned into Marcin Gortat and they also got Jared Dudley in that same deal who they turned into Eric Bledsoe.

Then they traded Gortat for Wasghington's 1st round pick.

What you you rather have, Raja Bell and Boris Diaw or Eric Bledsoe and Washington's first round pick? What has Bell and Diaw dpne since leaving the Suns btw?

And no team was gonna offer anything better for Shaq...he didn't fit our system and needed to go.

Joe Johnson wanted to be the #1 player on a team and knew that wasn't gonna happen in PHX so he asked Sarver to not match.

Everything else I'll agree with. You didn't even mention letting Marion go which was a bigger blunder than any thing else you stated.

Chronz
03-07-2014, 04:42 PM
Great comparison between teams but when I read the thread title I thought JB was going to bring up the constant selling of picks, but Joe Johnson? That was a smart trade IMO, kept Atlanta in perpetual rebuilds without slipping at all. Diaw turned out to be a revelation. If they had kept the players they drafted, they are contenders. I think it was either Marcus Banks or some Ex-Celtic athlete they overpaid instead of trying out Rondo/Deng IIRC.

Sarver spent foolishly and didn't splurge on guys he knew weren't worth the money. Also, JJ demanded that the Suns not match the offer, he wanted to be the man on a lotto team rather than contend for chips, its his decision but lets not act like the Harden move was on the same level.