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NoahH
03-06-2014, 12:56 PM
After their first few seasons it seemed clear that Brook was better than his brother Robin, but Robin has been unreal this year and I argue that due to Brook's injuries and ineffectiveness on the boards, Robin is the better of the brothers.

Brook Lopez

20ppg-6rpg-1.8bpg-56% shooting-83% FT

Robin Lopez
11ppg-9rpg-1.7bpg-54% shooting-81% FT (Robin's Offensive Rating is also off da' chain)

Obviously Brook is a more explosive scorer, but Robin makes a bigger impact on the game. If you watch Portland games, Robin is a big reason why they are playing so well this year.

Thoughts?

2-ONE-5
03-06-2014, 01:06 PM
i said for years if we could combine the Lopez twins as one player it would be the best C in the game!

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 01:08 PM
you say this while Lopez is injured. I'm gonna need you to chill for a second and understand why what Jason Kidd has done for the Brooklyn Nets is nothing short of amazing for what they loss.

defensive PPP allowed

Brook lopez 0.65, that's like top 5 defense when he's on the floor

Robin Lopez 0.92, Tyson Chandler is a 0.84 PPP allowed, KLove is 0.86 PPP allowed.

So I'm gonna say you need to chill. What Robin Lopez does very well is rebound. And presents a threat of the PnR w/ Lilliard.

NoahH
03-06-2014, 01:08 PM
i said for years if we could combine the Lopez twins as one player it would be the best C in the game!

Yup. Would be averaging 20-10-2 on 55% shooting and 80% from the line and a big defensive presence.

NoahH
03-06-2014, 01:09 PM
you say this while Lopez is injured. I'm gonna need you to chill for a second and understand why what Jason Kidd has done for the Brooklyn Nets is nothing short of amazing for what they loss.

defensive PPP allowed

Brook lopez 0.65 that's like top 5 defense when he's on the floor

Robin Lopez 0.92, Tyson Chandler is a 0.84 PPP allowed, KLove is 0.86 PPP allowed.

So I'm gonna say you need to chill. What Robin Lopez does very well is rebound. And presents a threat of the PnR w/ Lilliard.
That's part of my argument tho, WITH Brook's injury history in mind. Healthy Brook v. Healthy Robin edge goes to Brook, but Brook is super injury prone which is a knock on his status

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 01:12 PM
That's part of my argument tho, WITH Brook's injury history in mind. Healthy Brook v. Healthy Robin edge goes to Brook, but Brook is super injury prone which is a knock on his status

Oh ok. I was checking LOLS. B/c damn if Brook could stay healthy. Homie was holding Opp. to 32% shooting. I doubt that would cont. but damn, that's special.

RLundi
03-06-2014, 01:13 PM
you say this while Lopez is injured. I'm gonna need you to chill for a second and understand why what Jason Kidd has done for the Brooklyn Nets is nothing short of amazing for what they loss.

defensive PPP allowed

Brook lopez 0.65, that's like top 5 defense when he's on the floor

Robin Lopez 0.92, Tyson Chandler is a 0.84 PPP allowed, KLove is 0.86 PPP allowed.

So I'm gonna say you need to chill. What Robin Lopez does very well is rebound. And presents a threat of the PnR w/ Lilliard.

Amazing? This team is still massively underachieving. They have a .500 record in a hideously inferior east.

One could argue they're starting to turn it around despite Kidd.

Also, I agree that Brook is better but this defense nonsense needs to stop. Brook is not an elite defender. Small sample size + general knowledge renders this statistic all but moot.

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 01:20 PM
Amazing? This team is still massively underachieving. They have a .500 record in a hideously inferior east.

One could argue they're starting to turn it arrive despite Kidd.

- You don't have a top 10 PG for most of the year
- It's a new nucleus
- New coach
- had the most horrific backcourt defensive combo in Joe Johnson and Deron "the ghost" Williams playing
- had the ineffective start of KG and PP as contributers
- have one of the worst defensive back up bigs in Blatche
- have no back up PG for most of the year
- and add to that no real SG until Jan.

What Kidd has done w/ that team is amazing. They are now one of the top defensive units in basketball since the turn of the year. A roster that was mismatched until he puzzled it together. And eversince his 1 on 1 play w/ Deron Williams, the guy has actually been showing up to resemble some version of his Utah self.

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 01:24 PM
Also, I agree that Brook is better but this defense nonsense needs to stop. Brook is not an elite defender. Small sample size + general knowledge renders this statistic all but moot.

do we just ignore what he did in that sample size? those are factual stats, he was productive when he was on the floor. AllStar level defense. This is why Miami had trouble against him. This is why they were championship contenders.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
03-06-2014, 01:35 PM
Yea cause he can actually stay healthy and isn't as strong as a cracker ....

Still hear all those nets fans saying how dumb Orlando was for not taking brook and marshon (the next Kobe they said) and there useless late round picks for Dwight.... to that I say no thanks, ill take Vucevic, harkless, afflalo(asset) and the picks we got (including the nuggets or Knicks pick we get this year)

Hellcrooner
03-06-2014, 01:39 PM
i said for years if we could combine the Lopez twins as one player it would be the best C in the game!

except that if we are going to combine players i want both gasols mixed in one.
best PLAYER in the game

:D

NoahH
03-06-2014, 01:43 PM
except that if we are going to combine players i want both gasols mixed in one.
best PLAYER in the game

:D

How bout Thanasis Antetokounmpo combined with Giannis Antetokounmpo combined?
Best name in basketball and best potential

GiannisThanasis Antetokounmpo

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 01:44 PM
Amazing? This team is still massively underachieving. They have a .500 record in a hideously inferior east.

One could argue they're starting to turn it around despite Kidd.

Also, I agree that Brook is better but this defense nonsense needs to stop. Brook is not an elite defender. Small sample size + general knowledge renders this statistic all but moot.

When all measures of D paint him as a plus defensive player over the past two seasons (when healthy) I think its pretty safe to say he's a quality defensive big (better than his brother). I don't think anyone has said Brook is elite defensively but he has shaked that cloud of being a poor defensive player and is now one of the better ones in the league at his position.

RLundi
03-06-2014, 01:50 PM
- You don't have a top 10 PG for most of the year
- It's a new nucleus
- New coach
- had the most horrific backcourt defensive combo in Joe Johnson and Deron "the ghost" Williams playing
- had the ineffective start of KG and PP as contributers
- have one of the worst defensive back up bigs in Blatche
- have no back up PG for most of the year
- and add to that no real SG until Jan.

What Kidd has done w/ that team is amazing. They are now one of the top defensive units in basketball since the turn of the year. A roster that was mismatched until he puzzled it together. And eversince his 1 on 1 play w/ Deron Williams, the guy has actually been showing up to resemble some version of his Utah self.

I don't know if D Will is still a top 10 point guard. He is declining rapidly. Why do we keep giving him a pass for past success? I believe they have a better record without him, so one could argue they play better when he isn't on the floor.

This team was projected to win at least 50 games, despite having a new coach. With the amount of talent they had, there's no excuse for them to have performed so poorly.

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 02:03 PM
I don't know if D Will is still a top 10 point guard. He is declining rapidly. Why do we keep giving him a pass for past success? I believe they have a better record without him, so one could argue they play better when he isn't on the floor.

This team was projected to win at least 50 games, despite having a new coach. With the amount of talent they had, there's no excuse for them to have performed so poorly.

That's an extremely poor way at looking at it. Projections don't take injuries into consideration. When you lose your two best players for large chunks of the season your pre season projections (which were made when every players on the Nets was expected to be healthy this season) are obviously going to change.

Tell me a little about the Lakers projections, how about the Bulls? The Lakers were expected to be knocking on the door to the playoffs if not in quite easily and the Bulls well they were chosen by many to have the best record in the entire NBA. How are those projections looking?

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 02:10 PM
I don't know if D Will is still a top 10 point guard. He is declining rapidly. Why do we keep giving him a pass for past success? I believe they have a better record without him, so one could argue they play better when he isn't on the floor.



LOLS good question. I've been ragging on him. I know D-Will isn't that great. I even started coining him C-Will [for Casper] They have been better w/o the early season him, right now they have adjusted w/ him and one of the biggest things is now he's actually playing defense and locking down his backcourt assignment more times than not since his "practice scuffle" w/ coach Kidd. [I bet Kidd busted his *** on that court]

Shaun Livingston, KG, AK47 and now D-Will have stepped up defensively. Joe Johnson right now is the weakest link there, in which when he sees a PnR he gets beat more times than a Kardashian rated R video.


This team was projected to win at least 50 games, despite having a new coach. With the amount of talent they had, there's no excuse for them to have performed so poorly.

On paper yes. But when they started this season their strength was the interior defense and Lopez was the only consistent offensive player. Unfortunately Deron Williams played liked an uninspired ghost earlier this season and Joe Johnson was horrific, still is somewhat low key horrific defensively. The combo of C-Will and Joe was allowing more penetration than Kim K.

RLundi
03-06-2014, 02:13 PM
When all measures of D paint him as a plus defensive player over the past two seasons (when healthy) I think its pretty safe to say he's a quality defensive big (better than his brother). I don't think anyone has said Brook is elite defensively but he has shaked that cloud of being a poor defensive player and is now one of the better ones in the league at his position.

Over the past two seasons? I assume you mean this season and last. I don't think 17 games is an appropriate sample size to determine much to be honest. The season before then, he only played 5 games.

I don't think he can be considered one of the better defenders at his position. Howard, Hibbert, Gasol, Duncan, Noah, Horford, Chandler, Nene, DeAndre Jordan, Chris Bosh, Larry Sanders are all players at the center position who had significantly higher defensive win shares than Lopez, and that's just off the top of my head.

I won't say he's a poor defensive center but he's not one of the best at the C position. He's merely average, perhaps even above average.

jkiddvc20
03-06-2014, 02:13 PM
Some of these posts are just awful. Please refrain from commenting on the Nets and making downright stupid comments when you really don't watch the team and have no clue about them. 10-21 the Nets were they are now 30-29. This team has come a LONG way and are starting to click.

KingPosey
03-06-2014, 02:20 PM
Amazing? This team is still massively underachieving. They have a .500 record in a hideously inferior east.

One could argue they're starting to turn it around despite Kidd.

Also, I agree that Brook is better but this defense nonsense needs to stop. Brook is not an elite defender. Small sample size + general knowledge renders this statistic all but moot.

Starting to turn it around? You missed an entire month of nets basketball a couple months back.

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 02:22 PM
Over the past two seasons? I assume you mean this season and last. I don't think 17 games is an appropriate sample size to determine much to be honest. The season before then, he only played 5 games.

I don't think he can be considered one of the better defenders at his position. Howard, Hibbert, Gasol, Duncan, Noah, Horford, Chandler, Nene, DeAndre Jordan, Chris Bosh, Larry Sanders are all players at the center position who had significantly higher defensive win shares than Lopez, and that's just off the top of my head.

I won't say he's a poor defensive center but he's not one of the best at the C position. He's merely average, perhaps even above average.

I mean if you combined his defensive statistical value over the past two seasons and compare him to other Cs around the NBA you'd find that he ranks pretty favourably on that end of the floor.

The mere fact that you're listing Nene as one of the better defensive Cs in the NBA and you're saying Brook isn't one is probably testament to why you think Brook is so low. Vuc is better defensively than Nene. Of those players you listed Brook is better than DAJ, Nene and Bosh. He's right there with Sanders Horford and current Chandler IMO. Please don't ever use DWS in such an argument either. If you want real defensive statistics use those that the other guy were giving you earlier.

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 02:23 PM
The Nets went 20 - 8 in 2014

Let that sit for a moment. They didn't have a star PG
They loss their star in Brook Lopez
They had the worst defensive backcourt combo in Williams and Johnson

Jason Kidd steering that ship around and beating the likes of OKC, GSW, MIA, CHI, DAL...Everyone is sleeping on them.

valade16
03-06-2014, 02:26 PM
When Brook is injured Robin is the better player. The moment Brook steps on the court he is the best Lopez.

sunsfan88
03-06-2014, 02:27 PM
Lopez has come a long way since leaving PHX. Guy was absolute garbage here but finally learned how to play basketball in Portland. Good for him.

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 02:39 PM
Lopez has come a long way since leaving PHX. Guy was absolute garbage here but finally learned how to play basketball in Portland. Good for him.

I agree. Extremely effective in the PnR and a good offensive rebounder, extremely talented cutter for a big. I bet POR uses a lot of flex options w/ him.

Unfortunately the OP over did this comparison, b/c Robin Lopez is a decent big, Brook Lopez is an allstar level big.

Robin Lopez is more comparable to Mason Plumlee, who IMO is better than Robin Lopez when given time.

When Robin is on the court his PPP is 1.05 vs Mason Plumlee's 1.14

On defense Robin's PPP is 0.92 vs Mason Plumlee's 0.82, while opp. shoot 46% vs R.Lopez, they shoot 40% vs Mason. So one could argue, while Robin has improved, in time Mason Plumlee is going to surpass him.

RLundi
03-06-2014, 02:43 PM
That's an extremely poor way at looking at it. Projections don't take injuries into consideration. When you lose your two best players for large chunks of the season your pre season projections (which were made when every players on the Nets was expected to be healthy this season) are obviously going to change.

Tell me a little about the Lakers projections, how about the Bulls? The Lakers were expected to be knocking on the door to the playoffs if not in quite easily and the Bulls well they were chosen by many to have the best record in the entire NBA. How are those projections looking?

Exactly, the Lakers massively underachieved and were aptly criticized for it as well. Even before Lopez went down, they were underachieving greatly.

RLundi
03-06-2014, 02:57 PM
I mean if you combined his defensive statistical value over the past two seasons and compare him to other Cs around the NBA you'd find that he ranks pretty favourably on that end of the floor.

The mere fact that you're listing Nene as one of the better defensive Cs in the NBA and you're saying Brook isn't one is probably testament to why you think Brook is so low. Vuc is better defensively than Nene. Of those players you listed Brook is better than DAJ, Nene and Bosh. He's right there with Sanders Horford and current Chandler IMO. Please don't ever use DWS in such an argument either. If you want real defensive statistics use those that the other guy were giving you earlier.

Please re-read my post. I hardly consider Nene one of the best defensive centers in the league. The point is that Lopez isn't IMO. He's probably above average, but "better"? I'm not even convinced you know what you mean by that. Why not give a numerical assertion and not hiding behind a vague blanketed ranking?

I will continue to use DWS, along with a myriad of other statistics to supplement my opinion, thank you.

PhillyFaninLA
03-06-2014, 03:06 PM
healthier =/= better

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 03:11 PM
Exactly, the Lakers massively underachieved and were aptly criticized for it as well. Even before Lopez went down, they were underachieving greatly.

The Lakers and the Nets both were plagued with injuries to the best and most important players on thier teams. That's not underachieving that's called being **** outta luck. The Lakers and Nets have been starting players this season who couldn't find a role at the end of a bench in the NBA. How is that under achieving?

OKC
03-06-2014, 03:11 PM
saying Robin is better than Brook because of health is like saying Steve Blake is better than Rose.

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 03:15 PM
Please re-read my post. I hardly consider Nene one of the best defensive centers in the league. The point is that Lopez isn't IMO. He's probably above average, but "better"? I'm not even convinced you know what you mean by that. Why not give a numerical assertion and not hiding behind a vague blanketed ranking?

I will continue to use DWS, along with a myriad of other statistics to supplement my opinion, thank you.

What are these other statistics? The only stat I have seen you mention is DWS which is highly affecting by a team's DRtg which can be good or bad for an individual depending on the support he has around him.

All you have used thus far is an opinion as to why you think Lopez is average. Care to use anything else to supplement your opinion?

RLundi
03-06-2014, 03:21 PM
The Lakers and the Nets both were plagued with injuries to the best and most important players on thier teams. That's not underachieving that's called being **** outta luck. The Lakers and Nets have been starting players this season who couldn't find a role at the end of a bench in the NBA. How is that under achieving?

With the Lakers, I clearly meant last year. I figured that's what you were talking about when Kobe and Dwight failed to mesh. This year they have been completely decimated by injuries.

The Nets were projected to have near-All-Star level talent at each position. Garnett floundered, Pierce has been underwhelming, and D-Will doesn't appear he will ever regain whatever form he once enjoyed. I concede on Lopez, but even when they were all healthy, they underachieved immensely.

But please continue to maintain that you believed they would be at a .500 record with 20 games left, even with injuries to a similarly-underachieving Williams and Brook Lopez.

RLundi
03-06-2014, 03:23 PM
What are these other statistics? The only stat I have seen you mention is DWS which is highly affecting by a team's DRtg which can be good or bad for an individual depending on the support he has around him.

All you have used thus far is an opinion as to why you think Lopez is average. Care to use anything else to supplement your opinion?

Absolutely. Do you care to give a numerical value to your opinion as to what "better" entails?

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 03:53 PM
Absolutely. Do you care to give a numerical value to your opinion as to what "better" entails?

I await your response. If you want to know what better entails take a look at the numbers posted earlier. They reflect about the same over the course of the last two seasons. Now would you like to supplement your "argument"? Or would you rather continue on in proving nothing?

RLundi
03-06-2014, 04:12 PM
I await your response. If you want to know what better entails take a look at the numbers posted earlier. They reflect about the same over the course of the last two seasons. Now would you like to supplement your "argument"? Or would you rather continue on in proving nothing?

I'm happy to tell you what I've used (my own seeing eye test, DWS, RAPM, OPP field goal attempts and % at rim) but I'm sure as hell not going to do the legwork of posting any statistics since you seem aversed to posting anything even remotely concrete and tangible beside your ambiguous generalizations. I specifically asked you for a list of top defensive centers and what "better" entails and you've come up with nothing.

You said Lopez is one of the "better" centers. Am I correct to assume you have no clue what that means? Is that top 10? Top 15? Feel free not to use blanket statements and provide something other than "go check the stats that one guy posted earlier."

king4day
03-06-2014, 05:11 PM
After his rookie year, I thought RoLo had a real shot to be the better of the twins but to me, I think he's the better defender while Brook is the better offensive player. If both are healthy, you go with what you need. A team like Minny would take Robin where a team like the Warriors would want Brook in the paint.

ManRam
03-06-2014, 05:19 PM
Robin Lopez
11ppg-9rpg-1.7bpg-54% shooting-81% FT (Robin's Offensive Rating is also off da' chain)

His Offensive Rating is off the chain because of the team he plays on. ORtg is impacted by all other 9 players on the court. Using it to compare individuals to individuals on other teams is a bit questionable, at best.

Brook is WAY better. The knock is that he can't stay healthy, but when he is, they aren't in the same class, at all.


He's better defensively than his brother, but not by much, and he's far from an elite defensive player. Look how poor that team does defensively with him as their anchor. The individual advanced metrics support the notion that he's good, not great, defensively as well. I don't think the gap between the two defensively is huge. Brook is adequate, if not "good". I've always felt like his lack of huge rebounding numbers led people to believe he was a worse defender than he is. Last year he played very solid defense.

Robin is the 5th most important starter on that team. I can't get behind an argument suggesting otherwise. He's along for the ride.

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 06:57 PM
I'm happy to tell you what I've used (my own seeing eye test, DWS, RAPM, OPP field goal attempts and % at rim) but I'm sure as hell not going to do the legwork of posting any statistics since you seem aversed to posting anything even remotely concrete and tangible beside your ambiguous generalizations. I specifically asked you for a list of top defensive centers and what "better" entails and you've come up with nothing.

What's absolutely idiotic about your "argument" is that you're rambling on stating why you think Lopez isn't a good defensive player refusing to post any facts to back your opinion then when you're asked to you say you're not doing the legwork. Then why on earth are you even wasting your time with this discussion. If you don't want to back your opinion with anything tangible then you just shouldn't post doesn't make sense you just rambling on.


You said Lopez is one of the "better" centers. Am I correct to assume you have no clue what that means? Is that top 10? Top 15? Feel free not to use blanket statements and provide something other than "go check the stats that one guy posted earlier."

Again another idiotic argument. You yourself used the word better


I don't think he can be considered one of the better defenders at his position.

then followed it up by using a stat that tells you NOTHING about how good a defender a player is. Now you're stupidly asking me to explain better. How foolish is that. When I say better it means just that. He isn't one of the best (Elite or top 3-5) but he's better than most (top 10-15 or so). Anyone with a brain can decipher what someone would mean when they say that. Its not a blanket statement. We see people saying all the time "he's one of the better shooters in the league" or "he's one of the best players in the open court" you're an adult you're aptly capable of figuring it out yourself.

It's much better than you saying he's average at best well a maybe a little above average. What's that supposed to mean? I can be just like you and say what's "average" who is "average" what quantifies as "average" but anyone with a brain can understand what someone says when they say a player is average in a certain aspect of the game.

mrblisterdundee
03-06-2014, 07:09 PM
you say this while Lopez is injured. I'm gonna need you to chill for a second and understand why what Jason Kidd has done for the Brooklyn Nets is nothing short of amazing for what they loss.

Why do people try to create entirely hypothetical arguments based on if a player was healthy? We're talking about reality here. And in reality, Brook's injury record is a massive knock on his value.
Career-wise, Robin has some catching up to do. But he's obviously been the better of the two Lopez twins this year, if only because he's actually been on the court a reasonable number of games.

RLundi
03-06-2014, 10:55 PM
What's absolutely idiotic about your "argument" is that you're rambling on stating why you think Lopez isn't a good defensive player refusing to post any facts to back your opinion then when you're asked to you say you're not doing the legwork. Then why on earth are you even wasting your time with this discussion. If you don't want to back your opinion with anything tangible then you just shouldn't post doesn't make sense you just rambling on.



Again another idiotic argument. You yourself used the word better



then followed it up by using a stat that tells you NOTHING about how good a defender a player is. Now you're stupidly asking me to explain better. How foolish is that. When I say better it means just that. He isn't one of the best (Elite or top 3-5) but he's better than most (top 10-15 or so). Anyone with a brain can decipher what someone would mean when they say that. Its not a blanket statement. We see people saying all the time "he's one of the better shooters in the league" or "he's one of the best players in the open court" you're an adult you're aptly capable of figuring it out yourself.

It's much better than you saying he's average at best well a maybe a little above average. What's that supposed to mean? I can be just like you and say what's "average" who is "average" what quantifies as "average" but anyone with a brain can understand what someone says when they say a player is average in a certain aspect of the game.

Really? I used the word "better"? How daft are you? That's the whole premise of this whole ridiculous conversation I'm having with you. I merely asked you to expound on or clarify what YOU meant when YOU originally said it. See the bold.


When all measures of D paint him as a plus defensive player over the past two seasons (when healthy) I think its pretty safe to say he's a quality defensive big (better than his brother). I don't think anyone has said Brook is elite defensively but he has shaked that cloud of being a poor defensive player and is now one of the [B]better ones[\B] in the league at his position.

Do you understand now? Or does your shocking lack of reading comprehension and suitable memory of your own inane posts continue to render your responses completely invalid?

You harp on me saying "above average" but try to justify that "better" is somehow clearer? Lol ladies and gentlemen I've seen it all! If anything, "above average" is much more concrete than "better." I'm not going to get into a debate of semantics and conjecture with you because honestly, you're just a hypocrite with a low IQ.

And by the way, you've still provided next to nothing for your opinion. I'd like to follow suit and post in your mold: you want my supplementary information? Go check that one stat that one guy posted that one time. That'll tell you all you need to know. Yeah.

KniCks4LiFe
03-06-2014, 11:18 PM
Why do people try to create entirely hypothetical arguments based on if a player was healthy? We're talking about reality here. And in reality, Brook's injury record is a massive knock on his value.
Career-wise, Robin has some catching up to do. But he's obviously been the better of the two Lopez twins this year, if only because he's actually been on the court a reasonable number of games.

The only reason he's better this season is b/c his brother in Philly had Thaddeus Young impede his landing stop to the ground as Evan Turner was called for a foul.

I don't get what hypothetical argument there is, the only hypothetical argument here is that a healthy Robin >>> hurt Brook. Which I can actually say a healthy Mason Plumlee =/>>> a healthy Robin Lopez.

Career wise he has a lot to catch up to. His strength is the PnR and cutting to the basket. He can shoot from the right side of the court, stinks from the left. He's a 39% mid range shooter. 34% jump shooter. So this notion is not true. This is a fabricated opinion that he anywhere near what his brother is.

sunsfan88
03-07-2014, 07:42 AM
I agree. Extremely effective in the PnR and a good offensive rebounder, extremely talented cutter for a big. I bet POR uses a lot of flex options w/ him.

Unfortunately the OP over did this comparison, b/c Robin Lopez is a decent big, Brook Lopez is an allstar level big.

Robin Lopez is more comparable to Mason Plumlee, who IMO is better than Robin Lopez when given time.

When Robin is on the court his PPP is 1.05 vs Mason Plumlee's 1.14

On defense Robin's PPP is 0.92 vs Mason Plumlee's 0.82, while opp. shoot 46% vs R.Lopez, they shoot 40% vs Mason. So one could argue, while Robin has improved, in time Mason Plumlee is going to surpass him.

Yea Robin's a better comparison for guys like Gortat, Plumlee, etc while Brook is up there with Dwight, Cousins etc.

Robbw241
03-07-2014, 10:23 AM
When Brook is injured Robin is the better player. The moment Brook steps on the court he is the best Lopez.

Clearly this haha. I like Robin as a role player though.

NoahH
03-07-2014, 11:50 AM
YES! 3 people voted for Robin lol

blams
03-07-2014, 02:15 PM
6 rbpg...lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

D-Leethal
03-07-2014, 02:24 PM
I don't look for raw stats out of my bigs, and scoring takes a back seat to a few things when it comes to my anchor. I'll take Hibbert's awful stats and elite impact over Brook's sexy stats and questionable impact anyday. If my scorers are already in place, I'm taking Robin Lopez all day.

D-Leethal
03-07-2014, 02:25 PM
Who's "better" would really mean "who makes your team better" and that really depends on the other guys more than the Lopez's themselves.

The argument of "who's better" is one of the dumber arguments out there - way too many factors involved and this isn't a 1-1 tournament.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2014, 02:30 PM
I don't know if D Will is still a top 10 point guard. He is declining rapidly. Why do we keep giving him a pass for past success? I believe they have a better record without him, so one could argue they play better when he isn't on the floor.

This team was projected to win at least 50 games, despite having a new coach. With the amount of talent they had, there's no excuse for them to have performed so poorly.

with the "if healthy" tab. Everyone and their mother knew this roster was most likely going to have injuries considering its age and history to individual players.

AllDay28
03-07-2014, 02:41 PM
Rolo this year has been better as stated , brooke gets the nod though when healthy. That's a big when though

Chronz
03-07-2014, 02:50 PM
His Offensive Rating is off the chain because of the team he plays on. ORtg is impacted by all other 9 players on the court. Using it to compare individuals to individuals on other teams is a bit questionable, at best.
All stats are technically influenced by the other 9 players on the court, does that mean you dont look at any stats? ORTG is no different of an individual stat than FG% is.

Chronz
03-07-2014, 02:53 PM
with the "if healthy" tab. Everyone and their mother knew this roster was most likely going to have injuries considering its age and history to individual players.

I had them winning 50 with reasonable health. They didn't play up to sniff imo either that or I was wrong for not seeing the decline in PP/KG

Bruno
03-07-2014, 09:51 PM
Brook Lopez was excellent before breaking his foot. he was playing at an all star level for 17 games putting up a PER of 25.0, a TS% of .629 and a WS/48 of .214.

RLundi
03-08-2014, 01:16 AM
with the "if healthy" tab. Everyone and their mother knew this roster was most likely going to have injuries considering its age and history to individual players.

I'm not so sure they'd win 50 regardless of health. When they had a healthy roster, they were still abysmal. So psychic mothers aside, this season has been a disappointment, even taking into account injuries considering they are playing in one of the shockingly-weakest conferences we've seen in years. Slice it any which way you want, but this team has enough talent to be higher than a .500 team in mid-March, even with injuries.

Chronz
03-08-2014, 03:27 AM
Count me among those who are skeptical that Brook is much of a defender, individually, he might be but I have a hard time ignoring his seemingly lack of rebounding and mobility. He could be a + defender in the right system, maybe, but hes not in that Yao category of rim protection to offset his complete lack of mobility IMO.

Chronz
03-08-2014, 03:32 AM
Who's "better" would really mean "who makes your team better" and that really depends on the other guys more than the Lopez's themselves.

The argument of "who's better" is one of the dumber arguments out there - way too many factors involved and this isn't a 1-1 tournament.

True, whenever that question is asked, I only feel comfortable when its a player whom most winning teams could succeed more with. Subjective, I know, but its the best we can do. Wilt is not greater than Russell on a team stacked with scorers and in need of defense, but starting from scratch, Im more confident in my ability to build a contender around him and subsequent peripheral pieces.

Punk
03-14-2014, 02:31 PM
I haven't been around these parts awhile but this might be the dumbest stuff I've seen in a long time.

Brook was aruably on pace to be the best Center in the league. His interior D was great. He held opponents to 35% shooting in the paint which at the time was a much lower percentage than Roy Hibbert and Dwight. The only player to rival that was Anthony Davis. He also was averaging nearly 3 blocks per game, rivaling Anthony Davis.

Even last season, He held opposing centers to 33% on ISOs and his opponent defense was around 40% and his only weakness is PnR defense which might be due to mobility.

Offensively, he was Top 5 in post ups last year and this year he was shooting between 47-60% in jumpers from mid range twos and long twos. He was also #3 in blocks before the injury and #9 free throws and of course he is still Top 5 in PER for the second year in a row.

People who want to harp on the Nets record do realize he was 7th in win shares behind Wade/Melo and the team had 49 wins last year, right? Robin is nowhere near good as Brook. He fits in with Portland but so would any other big man that can block shots and take a load of Aldridge. Come on now.

A healthy Brook is also significantly better than Robin. There is no edge either.

Deadpool
03-14-2014, 11:54 PM
Durability RL>BL
Rebounding RL>BL
Post Offense RL<BL

I'd still prefer Brook when he is healthy, but contract wise Robin is the better bang for the buck.

THE MTL
03-14-2014, 11:59 PM
Brook Lopez is much better than his brother and its not even close. Those stats are from an injured season, new coach, and new team. Nets playing better and would only be better with brook.

TheMightyHumph
03-15-2014, 12:22 AM
Who's "better" would really mean "who makes your team better" and that really depends on the other guys more than the Lopez's themselves.

The argument of "who's better" is one of the dumber arguments out there - way too many factors involved and this isn't a 1-1 tournament.

Very well expressed.

Chill_Will_24
03-15-2014, 05:38 PM
What's absolutely idiotic about your "argument" is that you're rambling on stating why you think Lopez isn't a good defensive player refusing to post any facts to back your opinion then when you're asked to you say you're not doing the legwork. Then why on earth are you even wasting your time with this discussion. If you don't want to back your opinion with anything tangible then you just shouldn't post doesn't make sense you just rambling on.



Again another idiotic argument. You yourself used the word better



then followed it up by using a stat that tells you NOTHING about how good a defender a player is. Now you're stupidly asking me to explain better. How foolish is that. When I say better it means just that. He isn't one of the best (Elite or top 3-5) but he's better than most (top 10-15 or so). Anyone with a brain can decipher what someone would mean when they say that. Its not a blanket statement. We see people saying all the time "he's one of the better shooters in the league" or "he's one of the best players in the open court" you're an adult you're aptly capable of figuring it out yourself.

It's much better than you saying he's average at best well a maybe a little above average. What's that supposed to mean? I can be just like you and say what's "average" who is "average" what quantifies as "average" but anyone with a brain can understand what someone says when they say a player is average in a certain aspect of the game.

Really? I used the word "better"? How daft are you? That's the whole premise of this whole ridiculous conversation I'm having with you. I merely asked you to expound on or clarify what YOU meant when YOU originally said it. See the bold.


When all measures of D paint him as a plus defensive player over the past two seasons (when healthy) I think its pretty safe to say he's a quality defensive big (better than his brother). I don't think anyone has said Brook is elite defensively but he has shaked that cloud of being a poor defensive player and is now one of the [B]better ones[\B] in the league at his position.

Do you understand now? Or does your shocking lack of reading comprehension and suitable memory of your own inane posts continue to render your responses completely invalid?

You harp on me saying "above average" but try to justify that "better" is somehow clearer? Lol ladies and gentlemen I've seen it all! If anything, "above average" is much more concrete than "better." I'm not going to get into a debate of semantics and conjecture with you because honestly, you're just a hypocrite with a low IQ.

And by the way, you've still provided next to nothing for your opinion. I'd like to follow suit and post in your mold: you want my supplementary information? Go check that one stat that one guy posted that one time. That'll tell you all you need to know. Yeah.

Sir just stop. You have been pwned. At this point its obvious to everyone you are just rambling and arguing saying NOTHING worth anyone's time, because your pride will not allow you to just admit you have no clue and say he is right.

NBA_Starter
03-15-2014, 09:54 PM
I don't know about all of that but he has certainly had better luck with his health.