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JasonJohnHorn
03-06-2014, 06:03 AM
The press will be casting their MVP ballots soon. They are required to mail in their top five choices. Assuming you had a ballot to fill out, who would you pick and why?

And this isn't just about who you have first, but it is also about the guys on the fringe. Obviously LBJ and KD are at the head of the class, regardless of what order you put them in, but who finishes 3rd, 4th and 5th? What guys have been important to their team's success? Which guys have helped a team stay afloat or improve?

Slug3
03-06-2014, 09:42 AM
I would actually wait till the last day. If I had to vote today it would probably be

1. KD
2. Lebron
3. Blake

Then after that I really don't know. I would have to go back and look at some games.

Nighthawk
03-06-2014, 09:59 AM
Kd
lebron
p george
b griffin
dragic

Animosity
03-06-2014, 10:08 AM
Noah.......I know he won't win it but the guy deserves some votes.

Slug3
03-06-2014, 10:09 AM
Kd
lebron
p george
b griffin
dragic

I really dont know how PG can be ahead of Blake.

BklynKnicks3
03-06-2014, 10:57 AM
PG is now officially the most overated player in the nba top 3 player according to some lmaoooooooooooooooo

it is easily Durant. That stretch he wen ton not westy is what being a mvp is all about

ManRam
03-06-2014, 11:05 AM
LeBron
KD
Griffin
Curry
Dragic

The 5th spot is tough. Came down to Dragic and Noah for me. There are better players, but the MVP award doesn't always reward that. George and Aldridge don't deserve it.

JasonJohnHorn
03-06-2014, 11:13 AM
1. Kevin Durant: I think, even if you argue that LeBron is a better player, Durant’s value to his team has been tremendous. While Westbrook was down, defenses swarmed Durant and he responded by dropping 40 points several times. I won’t say Durant is better than LeBron, or that LeBron is better than Durant this season, but I will say Durant has played a huge role in keeping his team up top. With Westbrook out, I think most would agree that Durant had far less to work with than LeBron in Miami, and yet OKC has the better record.

2. LeBron James: I don’t think this needs any explanation. He is the best player on the planet and his percentages are off the charts this year.

3. Joakim Noah: If you had told anybody two years ago that you were going to take away the league MVP (Derrick Rose) and All-Star Luol Deng, and Omer Asik out of the Bulls line-up, most people would have assumed that they Bulls would turn into a lottery team. They haven’t. They are the third best team in the East and though Thibadeau and team play has a lot to do with that, Noah is a huge piece of that team’s success. He is leading them in assists, rebounds, blocks and steals. He puts out 110% every night, pushed himself to be better, shares the ball, gets others involved, and forces other guys to play to their potential.

4. Blake Griffin: Early in the season I had CP3 and LaMarcus Aldridge high on my list, but when Paul went down, Blake stepped in. He hasn’t been dominating the glass the way I like a big man to, but he has been facilitating, making passes, getting players involved, scoring and doing a respectable job on the glass. Props go to the Clippers squad and Doc Rivers for keeping it together while CP3 was out, but Blake was a huge role.

5. Al Jefferson: I know some people will laugh at me for this, and I took some slack for suggesting Jefferson should have made the All-Star team over Bosh, but Jefferson has been HUGE to the Bobcats success. Are the Bobcats contenders? No. They aren’t even .500, but they are a playoff team (in part because the east is so historically bad this year), but a large reason for their improvement has been Jefferson’s play. He started the season off slow this year, but he has been posting an insane number of 30/10 games (I think only Love and KD are ahead of him in that respect) and he has helped this team improve tremendously. Last year the Bobcats won 21 games. They are already at 28 wins this year and are within 5 games of .500 and have been playing at a .500 level for the past month and half. Once Jefferson got into the system, this team improved immensely. I think Jefferson deserves a little love for that.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-06-2014, 11:33 AM
KD
Lebron


Curry
Blake


Any 1 of Noah, George, Harden, Love, Melo could be argued, depending on how much you value team W-L

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-06-2014, 11:36 AM
Kd
Bron

Neck and neck, with kd having the edge.

NoahH
03-06-2014, 12:47 PM
1 LeBron
2 KD
3 Blake
4 Paul George
5 Curry

dalton749
03-06-2014, 12:47 PM
after kd n lebron
blake
dwight
demar

JordansBulls
03-06-2014, 12:50 PM
1. Durant
2. Dwight/Lebron
4. Blake
5. George

Ebbs
03-06-2014, 01:54 PM
LeBron
KD
Griffin
Curry
Dragic

The 5th spot is tough. Came down to Dragic and Noah for me. There are better players, but the MVP award doesn't always reward that. George and Aldridge don't deserve it.

I feel by the time the ballots are sent this would be mine. Like at this exact moment I have Durant a hair higher but I know LeBron will over take him.

I'd probably put Dwight, Noah, Dirk, Aldridge, George as my back 5

ManRam
03-06-2014, 02:07 PM
I feel by the time the ballots are sent this would be mine. Like at this exact moment I have Durant a hair higher but I know LeBron will over take him.

I'd probably put Dwight, Noah, Dirk, Aldridge, George as my back 5

I should say that was in no order. KD is the MVP leader. I think I'm more OK with putting Noah on there over Dragic too, after some reflection. Paul George will get votes because of his team's success, but I think some other guys have been more important over the duration of their seasons.

Baller1
03-06-2014, 02:09 PM
1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Blake
4. Noah
5. Love

FraziersKnicks
03-06-2014, 02:15 PM
1. LeBron
2. KD
3. Blake
4. Curry
5. Love

Shammyguy3
03-06-2014, 02:49 PM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Lebron James
3. Kevin Love
4. Blake Griffin
5. Joakim Noah
__________________
6. Goran Dragic
7. Stephen Curry
8. Dwight Howard
9. Paul George
10. Dirk Nowitzki

jerellh528
03-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Durant
James
Griffen
George
Curry

Deadpool
03-06-2014, 03:07 PM
Right now it's close. I'd give Durant the lead, but Lebron isn't far behind.

Stunner
03-06-2014, 03:08 PM
KD
Bron
Blake
Noah
PG


Tapatalk Rulez !!!

Method28
03-06-2014, 03:08 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Blake Griffin
4. Joakim Noah
5. Goran Dragic

Stunner
03-06-2014, 03:11 PM
I Can't put Love in any MVP discussion mainly because his team isn't in the playoff mix . If you have him on the ballot then you have to include Melo .


Tapatalk Rulez !!!

NYCkid12
03-06-2014, 03:34 PM
I Can't put Love in any MVP discussion mainly because his team isn't in the playoff mix . If you have him on the ballot then you have to include Melo .


Tapatalk Rulez !!!

Agree with this.

My 5

Durant/LeBron

Noah
Griffin
Curry

Shammyguy3
03-06-2014, 03:44 PM
I Can't put Love in any MVP discussion mainly because his team isn't in the playoff mix . If you have him on the ballot then you have to include Melo .


Tapatalk Rulez !!!

You don't have to include Melo no... Love's had a far better year than Melo, and he does more than Melo on the court.

Slug3
03-06-2014, 04:15 PM
1. Durant
2. Dwight/Lebron
4. Blake
5. George

Howard?

tredigs
03-06-2014, 05:07 PM
It's interesting how many Noah votes we see on your guys' ballots. Feels very "what have you done for me lately". I don't think I saw his name mentioned once in the first 1k post thread. He's not a terrible pick per se, but I'm going to need more than 12 ppg on 53% TS from my 7 foot center if he's going to be in a top 5 MVP discussion. He can pass as well as any big out there, but that's just too big of a pitfall for me to overlook given the performances we've seen from Curry/Griffin/Love.

ManRam
03-06-2014, 05:23 PM
I Can't put Love in any MVP discussion mainly because his team isn't in the playoff mix . If you have him on the ballot then you have to include Melo .


Tapatalk Rulez !!!

Love is having a better year individually.
Love's team is 30-30 in the WEST
Melo's team is 22-40 in the EAST.


Your argument has no merit.


(tho, I left Love off because per the way the award has always been awarded, not making the playoffs renders him not a true candidate...fair or not (not)...)

ManRam
03-06-2014, 05:31 PM
It's interesting how many Noah votes we see on your guys' ballots. Feels very "what have you done for me lately". I don't think I saw his name mentioned once in the first 1k post thread. He's not a terrible pick per se, but I'm going to need more than 12 ppg on 53% TS from my 7 foot center if he's going to be in a top 5 MVP discussion. He can pass as well as any big out there, but that's just too big of a pitfall for me to overlook given the performances we've seen from Curry/Griffin/Love.

There's some prisoner of the moment action there, for sure. But that's always been the way the MVP award has worked. His stats might not be awe-inspiring, and that's why he's not a contender for the #1 spot, but his impact is huge. He has a TREMENDOUS story too, and that always matters. Just as Derrick.

And even still, he's been pretty damn consistent with his play since December.

January 13-12-3 .468 shooting
February 14-14-6 .460 shooting
March 13-12-6 .532 shooting

He's shooting better of late, and has picked up the passing load, but his minutes, scoring volume and certainly his defense has never wavered. It's not so much his improved play that has him potentially cracking my top-5, it's the team's. The story line of not having Rose OR Deng, and still playing great, is huge. And, per how the award has almost always been awarded, that matters.

19-9 since Deng left. That's the biggest reason he's entered it. That team has improved since he's gone, Noah is the best player on that team -- especially defensively -- and defense is where they make their name. He deserves all the credit in the world IMO. Even in the East, the Bulls being this strong without Rose and Deng is remarkable :shrug:


It's not the "best player award"...it's the stupid old MVP award. He isn't a top-5 player, at all, but I think he can be a top-5 candidate for an award that often has incredibly dumb criteria.

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-06-2014, 06:57 PM
Tre, sorry I couldn't respond earlier to the link you posted. Goddamn lebron and kd are just animals man.

It's truly a pleasure watching these two.
An all around player and a scoring beast that ain't too shabby as an all around player himself ;)

Shammyguy3
03-06-2014, 07:15 PM
There's some prisoner of the moment action there, for sure. But that's always been the way the MVP award has worked. His stats might not be awe-inspiring, and that's why he's not a contender for the #1 spot, but his impact is huge. He has a TREMENDOUS story too, and that always matters. Just as Derrick.

And even still, he's been pretty damn consistent with his play since December.

January 13-12-3 .468 shooting
February 14-14-6 .460 shooting
March 13-12-6 .532 shooting

He's shooting better of late, and has picked up the passing load, but his minutes, scoring volume and certainly his defense has never wavered. It's not so much his improved play that has him potentially cracking my top-5, it's the team's. The story line of not having Rose OR Deng, and still playing great, is huge. And, per how the award has almost always been awarded, that matters.

19-9 since Deng left. That's the biggest reason he's entered it. That team has improved since he's gone, Noah is the best player on that team -- especially defensively -- and defense is where they make their name. He deserves all the credit in the world IMO. Even in the East, the Bulls being this strong without Rose and Deng is remarkable :shrug:


It's not the "best player award"...it's the stupid old MVP award. He isn't a top-5 player, at all, but I think he can be a top-5 candidate for an award that often has incredibly dumb criteria.

Spot on

Stunner
03-06-2014, 07:36 PM
Love is having a better year individually.
Love's team is 30-30 in the WEST
Melo's team is 22-40 in the EAST.


Your argument has no merit.


(tho, I left Love off because per the way the award has always been awarded, not making the playoffs renders him not a true candidate...fair or not (not)...)


Doesn't hold any merit ? I stated I didn't add love because they aren't in the playoffs . It's obvious Love is better than Melo but that wasn't my stance on it regardless of how different the conferences are . Knicks still fighting for a playoffs spot as much as the Wolves . Melo with his stats would be a top 10 MVP candidate if we are not factoring in Playoffs and Love would be top 5 .



Tapatalk Rulez !!!

b@llhog24
03-06-2014, 07:37 PM
KD
Bron Bron

Sent from my RM-915_nam_usa_228 using Tapatalk

tredigs
03-06-2014, 08:04 PM
There's some prisoner of the moment action there, for sure. But that's always been the way the MVP award has worked. His stats might not be awe-inspiring, and that's why he's not a contender for the #1 spot, but his impact is huge. He has a TREMENDOUS story too, and that always matters. Just as Derrick.

And even still, he's been pretty damn consistent with his play since December.

January 13-12-3 .468 shooting
February 14-14-6 .460 shooting
March 13-12-6 .532 shooting

He's shooting better of late, and has picked up the passing load, but his minutes, scoring volume and certainly his defense has never wavered. It's not so much his improved play that has him potentially cracking my top-5, it's the team's. The story line of not having Rose OR Deng, and still playing great, is huge. And, per how the award has almost always been awarded, that matters.

19-9 since Deng left. That's the biggest reason he's entered it. That team has improved since he's gone, Noah is the best player on that team -- especially defensively -- and defense is where they make their name. He deserves all the credit in the world IMO. Even in the East, the Bulls being this strong without Rose and Deng is remarkable :shrug:


It's not the "best player award"...it's the stupid old MVP award. He isn't a top-5 player, at all, but I think he can be a top-5 candidate for an award that often has incredibly dumb criteria.

I totally get the sentiment and his play definitely deserves recognition, it just feels like supreme "prisoner otm" due to this being a new thread where he is on blast all over, whereas we (at least I) literally never came across his name in the first thousand posts/5 months of the old thread.

I love Noah though, so I won't harp on it too much.

tredigs
03-06-2014, 08:13 PM
Tre, sorry I couldn't respond earlier to the link you posted. Goddamn lebron and kd are just animals man.

It's truly a pleasure watching these two.
An all around player and a scoring beast that ain't too shabby as an all around player himself ;)

They aight

IKnowHoops
03-06-2014, 08:19 PM
I would wait till the last day but today
1.KD
2.Bron
3.Blake
4.Love
5.Curry

IKnowHoops
03-06-2014, 08:21 PM
Love needs to get on a good team. I'm not leaving him off my ballet while he's putting up those numbers. I don't care what his record is. Statistically he is a top 3 player.

ManRam
03-06-2014, 09:43 PM
last argument for a while, since i don't like arguing aginst bron (i dislike being an idiot more, tho!)

between story lines, on court play, voter fatigue, etc., there's no reason to insinuate that lebron actually has a legit claim to the #1 spot right now. most any other year he'd be an obvious choice, but kd has been better, is on the better team, and has the better story lines. for MVP criteria, that's a sweep

lebron: 9 games with a game score of 30.0 or higher
durant: 16 games with a game score of 30.0 or higher

lebron: 2 games with 40+ points; 23 with 30+ points
durant: 10 games with 40+ points; 36 with 30+ points

lebron: 30.2 PER, .281 WS/48, 12.2 win shares
durant: 30.6 PER, .312 WS/48, 14.9 win shares

lebron: 10-5 without wade
durant: 22-11 without westbrook

heat: 43-15, 2nd in the East, SRS: 5.54
thunder: 46-15, 1st in the West, SRS: 7.21

mngopher35
03-06-2014, 11:42 PM
last argument for a while, since i don't like arguing aginst bron (i dislike being an idiot more, tho!)

between story lines, on court play, voter fatigue, etc., there's no reason to insinuate that lebron actually has a legit claim to the #1 spot right now. most any other year he'd be an obvious choice, but kd has been better, is on the better team, and has the better story lines. for MVP criteria, that's a sweep

lebron: 9 games with a game score of 30.0 or higher
durant: 16 games with a game score of 30.0 or higher

lebron: 2 games with 40+ points; 23 with 30+ points
durant: 10 games with 40+ points; 36 with 30+ points

lebron: 30.2 PER, .281 WS/48, 12.2 win shares
durant: 30.6 PER, .312 WS/48, 14.9 win shares

lebron: 10-5 without wade
durant: 22-11 without westbrook

heat: 43-15, 2nd in the East, SRS: 5.54
thunder: 46-15, 1st in the West, SRS: 7.21

pretty much. Lebron was going to need a great ending to the season with a storyline. Durant has just played better this year.

jerellh528
03-06-2014, 11:58 PM
Yikes, bron with another stinker in a loss. Maybe that mini spurt he had last week took too much out if him.

b@llhog24
03-07-2014, 05:02 AM
Law of averages kicking in for Bron Bron.

Sent via Tapatalk

tredigs
03-07-2014, 05:10 AM
The media spin kicked in for him though. He'll be getting plenty of votes.

beyourself
03-07-2014, 10:51 AM
Nothing has really changed for months. I know LeBron went hot recently, but Durant has had the better season.

He continues to have the better season. Why this is so difficult to understand? No idea.

Chrisclover
03-07-2014, 11:22 AM
KD
LBJ
George
Harden
Parker.
I give MVP to KD because it is rare that he finally surpasses LBJ in terms of PER and keep thunder on a high record even without Westbrook. It is time to give credit to the slim reaper. He deserves it.

rockets-fan
03-07-2014, 11:28 AM
LBJ
Durant
Griffin
Cp3
Dragic
Harden/Curry/Howard/George
Love (team success is important to me)
LMA


Don't have a Spur on their because that whole team is amazing, they don't rely on one or two guys.

tredigs
03-08-2014, 12:21 PM
LBJ
Durant
Griffin
Cp3
Dragic
Harden/Curry/Howard/George
Love (team success is important to me)
LMA


Don't have a Spur on their because that whole team is amazing, they don't rely on one or two guys.

Lmao. Care to back that?

In the 2 games since Charlotte LBJ's averaging 20/4/6 on 41% FG and has made exactly ONE shot outside of the paint (a 16 foot midrange jumper last night in his 6-18 effort). Both were Heat beatdowns and in both he was not the teams best player. This race looks all but over.

ApoelUltras
03-08-2014, 12:27 PM
Why is this even a question I can't understand, Kevin Durant is the MVP this season and it's not even close to me. He is having the best season of his career, and he finished 3 times behind Lebron, so they must give it to him this year. He scored like 500 more points than Lebron this season, averaging 5 more points than him per game. He also averages more rebounds per game, where Lebron just leads him with 1 more assist per game.. Durant's team has the better record between the two, and is playing in a much harder conference.. Not to mention his 12-game string of 30-point games—the NBA’s longest streak in more than a decade, and he had to play without Westbrook for a long time, his second best player.

tredigs
03-08-2014, 12:51 PM
I shouldn't say "both were Heat beatdowns"; That Rockets game ended up very close actually. Lebron just blew it. -shrug

beyourself
03-08-2014, 12:53 PM
All of his here think that KD has a solid and noticeable edge, but the media seems to think it's a deadheat for MVP.

tredigs
03-08-2014, 01:06 PM
All of his here think that KD has a solid and noticeable edge, but the media seems to think it's a deadheat for MVP.

They don't think that, but they're paid to produce a story and it's understandable that some fall into their own stupidity vortex.

beyourself
03-08-2014, 02:03 PM
They don't think that, but they're paid to produce a story and it's understandable that some fall into their own stupidity vortex.

Good point. They are probably less interested in getting it right than producing a story. If they really do understand that KD is the MVP of the NBA though you would think that when the ballots are cast he'd pick up most of the votes. But the voters have confounded us before.

tredigs
03-08-2014, 02:19 PM
I can guarantee that if you don't have cable TV or watch ESPN (and just have League Pass), the MVP debate has been clear since December.

That said, Lebron and the Heat made a really interesting push with the brewing win streak and his hot play of late - but when he/they **** the bed, it ended. He has no story or stats to take it as of this point, and it would take one of the best months in NBA history to change that given Durant's pace. It's KD's award. Cash your check Chronz.

beyourself
03-08-2014, 02:29 PM
I can guarantee that if you don't have cable TV or watch ESPN (and just have League Pass), the MVP debate has been clear since December.

That said, Lebron and the Heat made a really interesting push with the brewing win streak and his hot play of late - but when he/they **** the bed, it ended. He has no story or stats to take it as of this point, and it would take one of the best months in NBA history to change that given Durant's pace. It's KD's award. Cash your check Chronz.

I agree with you. It should be KD's award. He's earned it.

I just don't know if he will actually receive it. Do the voters listen to all this garbage on cable and ESPN? I don't know.

tredigs
03-08-2014, 03:25 PM
I agree with you. It should be KD's award. He's earned it.

I just don't know if he will actually receive it. Do the voters listen to all this garbage on cable and ESPN? I don't know.

Many of the voters are ESPN, so yes. I'd guess KD just needs one more good story for them to write (10 straight 35 point games, 3 straight triple doubles, etc) to secure their votes. Regardless, I don't imagine him losing after Lebron's past couple games under the microscope and the fact that he was already behind overall.

Kushed
03-08-2014, 05:57 PM
Durant pretty much has this all but locked up at this point.

Wolfman01
03-08-2014, 07:01 PM
Durant will be my choice the guy carried the team while Westbrook was injured.

IKnowHoops
03-08-2014, 11:19 PM
It aint over till its over. 20 games left. Heat could end up six games ahead of thunder. Lebron can still go off. If 10 games can't give Lebron the MVP, 2 games can't loose it for him. The hypocrisy of those who want there guy to win is boundless.

KnickaBocka.44
03-09-2014, 01:09 AM
Melo, as a makeup for last year.

jerellh528
03-09-2014, 01:25 AM
It aint over till its over. 20 games left. Heat could end up six games ahead of thunder. Lebron can still go off. If 10 games can't give Lebron the MVP, 2 games can't loose it for him. The hypocrisy of those who want there guy to win is boundless.

Lol

Baller1
03-09-2014, 06:16 AM
Lol

That made me laugh too.

tredigs
03-09-2014, 06:37 AM
The 10 games where KD averaged 33/7/7? Yeah, massive ground gained.

"I Know Hoops", accept defeat of your hero and let's move on.

amos1er
03-09-2014, 06:50 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again... Ya don't know hoops. ;)

Chrisclover
03-09-2014, 08:42 AM
Why is this even a question I can't understand, Kevin Durant is the MVP this season and it's not even close to me. He is having the best season of his career, and he finished 3 times behind Lebron, so they must give it to him this year. He scored like 500 more points than Lebron this season, averaging 5 more points than him per game. He also averages more rebounds per game, where Lebron just leads him with 1 more assist per game.. Durant's team has the better record between the two, and is playing in a much harder conference.. Not to mention his 12-game string of 30-point games—the NBA’s longest streak in more than a decade, and he had to play without Westbrook for a long time, his second best player.
Because the criteria are diverse and the world likes discussions. The award race will be prosaic if anything is solely determined by stats.To be more specific, we have to take the business ,legacy and so forth into account.
In terms of business, LBJ is the reigning King of NBA, which means the NBA needs his glory to expand the business.Nonetheless, KD is also a man who catches a lot of attention and he is much younger, by which i mean he will be the No. 1 sooner or later. Their global tours stir up the emotion of fans and it all goes without saying that the NBA is enjoying these. LBJ has an advantage because he is just too prominent, especially with the back -to-back championships, the first of which came after a 2 seasons of bitter hatred and pouring doubts from every corner, and the second of which was won dramatically as he quashed the rising Pacers and the perennial old boys, Spurs. Some LBJ haters gradually calm down themselves and show respect for this almighty man.
When it comes to legacy, it is a long term thing. LBJ, in the eyes of many analysts, has a great chance of becoming the GOAT. KD, unfortunately, is probably hard to climb to LBJ 's height because LBJ seems impeccable in almost every skill,although KD is also phenomenal.Now if I were the commissioner who imposes my will on the outcome , i would consider which is more beneficial, continuing racking up LBJ 's trophies or giving his competitors like KD some credit in order to turn the award racing more riveting. Both of which can raise the popularity of NBA ,but to maximize the benefit, it really takes some time to consider the holistic plan.
So it is really a tug of war, when you see them alternating the 1st and 2nd place back and forth on the MVP race .
Anyway, i am inclined to give KD the MVP :laugh:It sounds kind of contradictory to my above analysis but I am not hiding my increasing love for KD. Losing one MVP doesnt harm LBJ 's business and legacy too much but for KD, gaining an MVP is a glamorous milestone and HE DESERVES IT !!!This is the year.

Zefflin
03-09-2014, 03:38 PM
More MVP play by the 'best in the world'

ManRam
03-09-2014, 03:42 PM
barring an injury, the gap has to be too big. lebron doesn't have the story, the record or the play.

Zefflin
03-09-2014, 03:45 PM
KD's gonna win it, win or lose vs my Lakers he's going to win it.

ManRam
03-09-2014, 03:54 PM
KD's gonna win it, win or lose vs my Lakers he's going to win it.

Bold take: one game against the Lakers is inconsequential!?!

beyourself
03-09-2014, 04:02 PM
The media will not give it up though. They want a 2 horse race between the best players.

Zefflin
03-09-2014, 04:28 PM
Bold take: one game against the Lakers is inconsequential!?!

haha, yes, but a loss against us wouldn't look good, and unless barring a miracle, KD will win MVP

jerellh528
03-09-2014, 05:00 PM
Damn, poor Lebron, another sub par performance in another loss. Seriously think that week of amazing ball took all the air outta him.

Delrayhc
03-09-2014, 05:14 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again... Ya don't know hoops. ;)

You don't know hoops either you only know what Kobes daily and hourly schedule is so I wouldn't talk. Other than that I don't think LeBron will win it. I think KD has it wrapped up and he deserves the award 100%.

LOOTERX9
03-09-2014, 06:17 PM
Westbrook is really hurting durants game mentally. But with lbj's recent struggles durant will win mvp by default

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-09-2014, 06:45 PM
Durant with a cushion lead IMO

Rndy
03-09-2014, 06:48 PM
Noah! won't happen but he'll get some votes. I hope he wins a DPOY he deserves 1 Howard will win many more I want Noah to get rewarded just once thought he deserved it over Gasol last year not to say Gasol didn't but I'm a homer so I say Noah!

JordansBulls
03-09-2014, 06:56 PM
Thunder losing Thabo and Perkins is what is killing them. Right now Miami has had there full squad and lost 3 straight.

stawka
03-09-2014, 07:02 PM
lol JB. Relax, KD has this in the bag

But no, it has NOTHING to do with Perkins being out, and little to do with Thabo

J-Heyfever
03-09-2014, 11:09 PM
I'm a long time follower and reader of PSD but this only like my 3rd time posting. I'm a huge Heat fan but barring a huge collapse/ insane unprecedented run by Lebron I'd be shocked if KD doesn't win MVP. I still hope I'm wrong but I just don't see Durant losing this MVP he's just been too unstoppable. Side note I think Westbrook(a great top 15 player who Durant Won't win a championship without) is still holding Durant back at least in defining him as a top player of all time.

Trwood12
03-09-2014, 11:34 PM
It has to be KD this year. Lebron has been good, but Durant has been putting up ungodly numbers.

Chrisclover
03-10-2014, 06:49 AM
Why is this even a question I can't understand, Kevin Durant is the MVP this season and it's not even close to me. He is having the best season of his career, and he finished 3 times behind Lebron, so they must give it to him this year. He scored like 500 more points than Lebron this season, averaging 5 more points than him per game. He also averages more rebounds per game, where Lebron just leads him with 1 more assist per game.. Durant's team has the better record between the two, and is playing in a much harder conference.. Not to mention his 12-game string of 30-point games—the NBA’s longest streak in more than a decade, and he had to play without Westbrook for a long time, his second best player.
Something is wrong here .
now it just has less than 20 games left, so the number of games played is around 60.
500/5=100 :oldguy:,which is way more than 60
500/60 is between 8 and 9, which is way more than 5.:confused:
You had better be more accurate about the numbers, otherwise they are of no use.

Chrisclover
03-10-2014, 06:53 AM
The media will not give it up though. They want a 2 horse race between the best players.
Does Las Vagas have NBA MVP betting ?Probably we should follow these analysts and then make a fortunate with the knowledge of them? :eyebrow:

tredigs
03-10-2014, 07:36 AM
The media is still presenting it as a tie. There's nothing tied about this MVP race, but that's the current spin.

poleandreel
03-10-2014, 08:52 AM
lol JB. Relax, KD has this in the bag

But no, it has NOTHING to do with Perkins being out, and little to do with Thabo

I disagree. Thabo is our best perimeter defender and is great at picking up the open man during rotations. Perkins is 2nd among all qualified players for opponents fg% at the time. He is great at switching, communicating on D, and brings some toughness.

Our defense has been straight garbage since both have gone down.

beyourself
03-10-2014, 01:26 PM
The media is still presenting it as a tie. There's nothing tied about this MVP race, but that's the current spin.

Only opinions that matter in the end are the voters. Aren't a lot of voters in the media?

zn23
03-10-2014, 04:35 PM
Does anyone want to win the MVP? LeBron made a big surge and has hit a wall. KD has been inconsistent since Westbrook has come back.

Shammyguy3
03-10-2014, 04:53 PM
Durant's been inconsistent since Westbrook came back? :laugh2: in 8 games since Westbrook came back Durant's posted:

28/8/3 on a 53.0ts% and a 95 ORtg
42/3/10 on a 59.5ts% and a 117 ORtg
28/10/9 on a 75.1ts% and a 148 ORtg
37/6/5 on a 65.1ts% and a 127 ORtg
28/6/5 on a 47.8ts% and a 115 ORtg
42/9/3 on a 75.2ts% and a 135 ORtg
34/7/5 on a 62.8ts% and a 116 ORtg
27/10/12 on a 56.6ts% and a 115 ORtg

Total averages through those game: 33.3ppg 7.4rpg 6.4apg on a 61.3ts% 55.0efg% 120ORtg 32.5usg%

He's had one bad game and one mediocre game, every other one was great.

Chrisclover
03-11-2014, 12:29 AM
Does anyone want to win the MVP? LeBron made a big surge and has hit a wall. KD has been inconsistent since Westbrook has come back.
Just as Shammy said, KD is actually consistent. The only exceptions were one mediocre game and a bad game. But didnt LBJ shot 6 out of 18 lately in a loss ? And he claimed that it was the sleeves that held him back :laugh:

mweb08
03-11-2014, 02:22 AM
It's very close, but I'd give the edge to Durant. He certainly has a statistical edge, especially when factoring in total minutes played. However, while James is not having a great defensive year for him, I'd still give him the edge over Durant there, so that makes it quite close.

mweb08
03-11-2014, 02:25 AM
And I can't believe people are actually making a big deal of Kendrick Perkins being out. He's useful against certain centers, but is a waste on offense and a complete detriment against many 5 man groups.

Baller1
03-11-2014, 02:29 AM
Kendrick is just a straight up waste in general. He's horrific.

Hawkeye15
03-11-2014, 03:04 PM
Perkins hurts his team more than he helps them. Better off with him hurt

Tony_Starks
03-11-2014, 03:52 PM
KD




Bron
Blake

jerellh528
03-12-2014, 12:05 AM
Durant with another huge game in a victory against a contender.

Baller1
03-12-2014, 11:58 AM
Yeah, the race is virtually over.

Slug3
03-12-2014, 08:03 PM
Honestly, the way Lebron has been playing lately and the way Lblake has been playing I wouldn't be surprised is Blake finished 2nd.

beyourself
03-12-2014, 09:37 PM
Durant would have to fall on his face to lose at this point.

But I say he's gearing up for one last hot streak to KO LeBron.

Slug3
03-12-2014, 09:41 PM
Durant would have to fall on his face to lose at this point.

But I say he's gearing up for one last hot streak to KO LeBron.

Lebron is taking himself out of this race.

beyourself
03-12-2014, 09:44 PM
Lebron is taking himself out of this race.

Yea, but the media wants him to win. So I just wanna see Durant go ham for a week and nail the door.

Slug3
03-12-2014, 10:24 PM
Yea, but the media wants him to win. So I just wanna see Durant go ham for a week and nail the door.

I dunno. I mean I'm sure some want him to win, but you can also make a case that some don't want to vote for him anymore.

Master Mind
03-12-2014, 10:32 PM
Congrats to KD, hell of a season.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 06:29 AM
What happened to Lebron? Jesus, another terrible game in another heat loss. What happened to "coasting"? I thought Lebron was going to "turn it on and dominate like he always does". Well he did turn it on for like a week and a half after the all star break I guess. But this streak of bad games wipes those good games outta the equation. Congrats kd on your first MVP and dropping the best statistical season since Jordan.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 08:58 AM
Congrats kd on your first MVP and dropping the best statistical season since LeBron last year.

Fixed

ManRam
03-13-2014, 10:25 AM
What happened to Lebron? Jesus, another terrible game in another heat loss. What happened to "coasting"? I thought Lebron was going to "turn it on and dominate like he always does". Well he did turn it on for like a week and a half after the all star break I guess. But this streak of bad games wipes those good games outta the equation. Congrats kd on your first MVP and dropping the best statistical season since Jordan.

Bad stretch indeed. It happens to everyone :shrug: This feels like one of his worst 5 game stretches in a very long time.

20 points, 7.2 assists, 6.0 rebounds on 45% shooting. That's horrible for LeBron. The fact that it's horrible for LeBron is also a testament to what we expect from him.

But yeah, it's game over. KD's got the MVP, and is certainly ridiculously deserving. :worthy:

Slug3
03-13-2014, 10:35 AM
Bad stretch indeed. It happens to everyone :shrug: This feels like one of his worst 5 game stretches in a very long time.

20 points, 7.2 assists, 6.0 rebounds on 45% shooting. That's horrible for LeBron. The fact that it's horrible for LeBron is also a testament to what we expect from him.

But yeah, it's game over. KD's got the MVP, and is certainly ridiculously deserving. :worthy:

Honestly I watch him every game and I know outside of Heat fans not all fans will. But he has taken off his mask recently and because of it he is taking more jumpers and not being as aggressive. I would not doubt it if he is afraid to get hit in the nose again when driving to the bucket. I mean the last 3/4 games since he took the mask off he has taken a total of like 5 or so FTs. He either needs to put that mask back on, or deal with it if his nose gets smacked again. Because he cannot go into the playoffs relying on his jumper to do it for him.

tredigs
03-13-2014, 02:45 PM
Bad stretch indeed. It happens to everyone :shrug: This feels like one of his worst 5 game stretches in a very long time.

20 points, 7.2 assists, 6.0 rebounds on 45% shooting. That's horrible for LeBron. The fact that it's horrible for LeBron is also a testament to what we expect from him.

But yeah, it's game over. KD's got the MVP, and is certainly ridiculously deserving. :worthy:

In reality, it's game over. But the media does not live in reality, and that's who votes on this. I'm not convinced KD will win yet.

ManRam
03-13-2014, 03:25 PM
In reality, it's game over. But the media does not live in reality, and that's who votes on this. I'm not convinced KD will win yet.

I don't think the media is forcing it all that much, honestly. At least that's not the impression I've gotten. I wouldn't be so paranoid! It's pretty cut and dry, and I'm sure most voters get that. While we can question many of the voters' logic, they're still mostly pretty entrenched in the game. It doesn't take much knowledge to grasp the fact that KD has been better. I think if voting ended today KD would get maybe 80+% of the votes. Obviously, there's no facts backing that at all. Just a gut feeling.

There are LeBron holdovers, but yeah...it's too obvious. LeBron doesn't have the story lines that normally allow a lesser player to win, like a Rose, Nash, etc.

Vegas has Durant as a pretty obvious leader right now, for whatever that means.

IKnowHoops
03-13-2014, 04:48 PM
Fixed

Good fix, between the hate and lack of understanding statistics, the kid just can't formulate a solid post. About a month ago the poor guy had Lamarcus Aldridge and Paul George ahead of Lebron. SMH

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 04:50 PM
Good fix, between the hate and lack of understanding statistics, the kid just can't formulate a solid post. At one point the poor guy had Lamarcus Aldridge and Paul George ahead of Lebron. SMH

Ok then mr.iknowpoops, let's hear why?

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 04:59 PM
27, 8, 7 on .640ts drtg100

32, 8, 6 on .639ts drtg101
Their stats were almost identical except for the fact that durant is putting up 5 more ppg in a much tougher conference. Lbj has 1 more apg last year but he also has a much better cast of shooters. It's somewhat debatable, but most unbiased would say durant just had the best season since Jordan.

IKnowHoops
03-13-2014, 05:02 PM
Ok then mr.iknowpoops, how was lbj better last year than kd is this year? You care so much about stats, let's see the stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html

Here's a start. I'm not gonna hold your hand and lead you especially when you had LaMarcus and Paul George above Bron. But your Jordan statement was just stupid and you don't have to look at just Lebron either to find better seasons since Jordan, especially when the season isn't over yet.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 05:08 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html

Here's a start. I'm not gonna hold your hand and lead you especially when you had LaMarcus and Paul George above Bron. But your Jordan statement was just stupid and you don't have to look at just Lebron either to find better seasons since Jordan, especially when the season isn't over yet.

For a time George and lma both were ahead of lbj in MVP standings. I know that site, it's where I get all my stats. so why don't you show me how durant isn't having the best season since mj, if it's so ridiculous for me to say that, it should be very easy for you to pull up, right? C'mon , you're not holding my hand because I looked through every one of lbjs seasons and can't find one better than current durant, and durant may not even be in his prime yet which is even more amazing.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 05:47 PM
27, 8, 7 on .640ts drtg100

32, 8, 6 on .639ts drtg101
Their stats were almost identical except for the fact that durant is putting up 5 more ppg in a much tougher conference. Lbj has 1 more apg last year but he also has a much better cast of shooters. It's somewhat debatable, but most unbiased would say durant just had the best season since Jordan.

I like the way you leave PER and WS/48 out because they favour LeBron so heavily.

I also like the way you used DRTG as a judgement for defensive prowess..... :laugh2:

tredigs
03-13-2014, 06:29 PM
I don't think the media is forcing it all that much, honestly. At least that's not the impression I've gotten. I wouldn't be so paranoid! It's pretty cut and dry, and I'm sure most voters get that. While we can question many of the voters' logic, they're still mostly pretty entrenched in the game. It doesn't take much knowledge to grasp the fact that KD has been better. I think if voting ended today KD would get maybe 80+% of the votes. Obviously, there's no facts backing that at all. Just a gut feeling.

There are LeBron holdovers, but yeah...it's too obvious. LeBron doesn't have the story lines that normally allow a lesser player to win, like a Rose, Nash, etc.

Vegas has Durant as a pretty obvious leader right now, for whatever that means.
I don't follow mass media for the most part, but I checked in on NBA . Com's "race to the MVP" and they had Lebron as #1. That was the main reason I mentioned that along with various ESPN broadcast comments I've heard.


The thing is that he could've easily taken over with both OKC and Indy (massively) slipping over the past 10 games, but he just isn't closing as most were predicting. I'm sure KD deserves it, but they're just not there yet from a mass media standpoint.

"Paranoid" is a funny word choice, I have no vested interest other than arguing the best candidate on here. If OKC and KD lose in the 1st round of the playoffs I'll be a happy man (easier road for GSW if they go on).

tredigs
03-13-2014, 06:36 PM
I like the way you leave PER and WS/48 out because they favour LeBron so heavily.

I also like the way you used DRTG as a judgement for defensive prowess..... :laugh2:

Find us a defensive metric that highlights Lebron as better this year? And over the course of the year KD has Lebron beat on PER and crushed on WinShares (and many other cumulative stats).

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 06:42 PM
Find us a defensive metric that highlights Lebron as better this year? And over the course of the year KD has Lebron beat on PER and crushed on WinShares (and many other cumulative stats).

I'm not arguing this year, do some reading....

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 06:51 PM
I like the way you leave PER and WS/48 out because they favour LeBron so heavily.

I also like the way you used DRTG as a judgement for defensive prowess..... :laugh2:

So heavily? Hahaha fractions of a point? I only used drtg so put something of defense in there. It's the same as per to show player prowess so... What's your point? You cant pick and choose which ones you wanna use, Stat formulas are unreliable at best and I don't really believe in them. But go ahead, show me how lbj was better? The only thing he did better was win a ring, that's the edge I give him.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 06:57 PM
Still waiting for someone to show me a season better that current kd's since mj.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 07:02 PM
So heavily? Hahaha fractions of a point? I only used drtg so put something of defense in there. It's the same as per to show player prowess so... What's your point? You cant pick and choose which ones you wanna use, Stat formulas are unreliable at best and I don't really believe in them. But go ahead, show me how lbj was better? The only thing he did better was win a ring, that's the edge I give him.

.322 compared to .306 is a fairly considerable difference in WS/48, which is also the case with PER.

DRTG is a product of TEAM defense. I'm not saying Durant isn't a good defender, I'm saying that stat is useless when deciphering a player's defensive ability. Luis Scola had a career average DRTG of 105 before joining the Pacers and for this season it's 97 which makes him one of the top 10 defenders in the NBA..... PER is an individual statistic and is a much better evaluator of player talent.

So LBJ's 2012-13 season had a higher PER, higher WS/48, led his team to more wins, dominated in the playoffs, won a ring and Finals MVP.

Please make a case for KD's current season being better than LeBron's last year.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 07:22 PM
.322 compared to .306 is a fairly considerable difference in WS/48, which is also the case with PER.

DRTG is a product of TEAM defense. I'm not saying Durant isn't a good defender, I'm saying that stat is useless when deciphering a player's defensive ability. Luis Scola had a career average DRTG of 105 before joining the Pacers and for this season it's 97 which makes him one of the top 10 defenders in the NBA..... PER is an individual statistic and is a much better evaluator of player talent.

So LBJ's 2012-13 season had a higher PER, higher WS/48, led his team to more wins, dominated in the playoffs, won a ring and Finals MVP.

Please make a case for KD's current season being better than LeBron's last year.

Per and ws48 is a product of team offense, and leading a team to more wins, fmvp all that stuff you said is a product of team offense and team defense.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 07:28 PM
The case is both players have had almost identical stats except for kd's 5 extra ppg while playing in a tougher conference and with less help.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 07:31 PM
Per and ws48 is a product of team offense, and leading a team to more wins, fmvp all that stuff you said is a product of team offense and team defense.

That's all you've got?

If PER is a product of team offense how come 4 of the top 7 players in PER this season (Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins and Carmelo Anthony), are on teams who aren't going to make the playoffs?

Once again, I ask you to provide evidence as to why KD's season is better than LeBron's last year.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 07:37 PM
That's all you've got?

If PER is a product of team offense how come 4 of the top 7 players in PER this season (Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins and Carmelo Anthony), are on teams who aren't going to make the playoffs?

Once again, I ask you to provide evidence as to why KD's season is better than LeBron's last year.

You're case is per? Okay fractions of a point? It's like 30 to 31. Okayyyyy? Durant scoring 5 more ppg with the same Rebs, assists, and efficiency. With less help in a much tougher conference. It's simple to see man, you're just blinded by bias. I'd love for an unbiased opinion on this.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 07:46 PM
The case is both players have had almost identical stats except for kd's 5 extra ppg while playing in a tougher conference and with less help.

That's not good enough.

LeBron James (12-13): 26.8 PPG, 8 RPG, 7.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 3 TOPG, .640 TS%, 31.6 PER, WS/48 .322
Kevin Durant (13-14): 31.9 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 5.6 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 3.6 TOPG, .639 TS%, 30.3 PER, WS/48 .306

Don't give me that conference BS, LeBron averaged better numbers against the West than he did against the East (28/8/7 on 64.3 TS% against the West, 26/8/7 on 63.9 TS% against the East).

Saying KD has less help is an unquantifiable statement that really has nothing to do with his performance being any better than LeBron's. If KD was going to lead the Thunder to a better record than the 2012-13 Heat then you might have a tiny argument, but he's not. So he has less help (in your eyes) and he also has a worst record which provides you with no sort of advantage in your argument.

You clearly cannot explain to me why KD's current season is better than LeBron's and until you can provide a sufficient argument, I'm not gonna waste any more time debating with you.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 07:53 PM
That's not good enough.

LeBron James (12-13): 26.8 PPG, 8 RPG, 7.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 3 TOPG, .640 TS%, 31.6 PER, WS/48 .322
Kevin Durant (13-14): 31.9 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 5.6 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 3.6 TOPG, .639 TS%, 30.3 PER, WS/48 .306

Don't give me that conference BS, LeBron averaged better numbers against the West than he did against the East (28/8/7 on 64.3 TS% against the West, 26/8/7 on 63.9 TS% against the East).

Saying KD has less help is an unquantifiable statement that really has nothing to do with his performance being any better than LeBron's. If KD was going to lead the Thunder to a better record than the 2012-13 Heat then you might have a tiny argument, but he's not. So he has less help (in your eyes) and he also has a worst record which provides you with no sort of advantage in your argument.

You clearly cannot explain to me why KD's current season is better than LeBron's and until you can provide a sufficient argument, I'm not gonna waste any more time debating with you.

Every single stat you bolded in favor of lbj is within a fraction of a point for durant, negligible differences. What's not negligible is the 5ppg more that kd is averaging.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 07:54 PM
Every single stat you bolded in favor of lbj is within a fraction of a point for durant, negligible differences. What's not negligible is the 5ppg more that kd is averaging.

So let me get this straight, KD is having a better season because he's averaging more points?

tredigs
03-13-2014, 08:57 PM
I'm not arguing this year, do some reading....

No time son, sorry. I'll take your word.

FOBolous
03-13-2014, 08:59 PM
words cannot describe how embarrassed i am with the Rockets right now. how do you beat lose so horribly these past two games after beating Indiana, Miami, and Portland so convincingly? i mean, i understand this road trip/schedule is tough and you can't win them all but to lose THIS bad?!?! ugh.

FOBolous
03-13-2014, 09:01 PM
and Dwight with 7 turnovers?!?! wth mang.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 09:01 PM
So let me get this straight, KD is having a better season because he's averaging more points?

Yes, along with matching every other stat bron put up. Not just 1 or two extra points, FIVE. That's a big difference.

FOBolous
03-13-2014, 09:03 PM
^ lol wrong thread. meant to post in the game thread.

FraziersKnicks
03-13-2014, 09:20 PM
Yes, along with matching every other stat bron put up. Not just 1 or two extra points, FIVE. That's a big difference.

But he doesn't MATCH every other stat. LeBron has him beat in every category. A negligible difference is something that can be made up in a game or two. Nearly 2 assists more isn't a negligible difference (especially when he averaged less turnovers). 31.6 to 30.3 isn't a negligible difference in PER. .322 WS/48 to .306 isn't a negligible difference. 5 more points a game doesn't make up for LeBron beating KD in literally EVERY OTHER SINGLE STATISTICAL CATEGORY.

When you take into account LeBron won more games, dominated the playoffs, won a ring and Finals MVP, you think 5 more points a game makes KD's season more historic? Okay.

You're a Kobe fan, of course you think scoring points carries more weight than everything else :rolleyes:

If KD dominates the playoffs, wins a ring and wins Finals MVP, come back and have this discussion with me. Until then, there isn't an argument to be had.

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 09:24 PM
But he doesn't MATCH every other stat. LeBron has him beat in every category. A negligible difference is something that can be made up in a game or two. Nearly 2 assists more isn't a negligible difference (especially when he averaged less turnovers). 31.6 to 30.3 isn't a negligible difference in PER. .322 WS/48 to .306 isn't a negligible difference. 5 more points a game doesn't make up for LeBron beating KD in literally EVERY OTHER SINGLE STATISTICAL CATEGORY.

When you take into account LeBron won more games, dominated the playoffs, won a ring and Finals MVP, you think 5 more points a game makes KD's season more historic? Okay.

You're a Kobe fan, of course you think scoring points carries more weight than everything else :rolleyes:

If KD dominates the playoffs, wins a ring and wins Finals MVP, come back and have this discussion with me. Until then, there isn't an argument to be had.

:yawn: fine, we shall revisit this after the season and get an unbiased opinion on it. But by that time I'm sure somebody will have already made a thread titled "congrats on MVP kd and the best statistical season since mj"

jerellh528
03-13-2014, 09:59 PM
I wouldn't waste time with him, no matter what you show him it won't matter. Hell use any stat that shows KD is better and disregard any stat that shows Bron was better. All you need to know is that he had LMA and Paul George above Bron in the MVP race to know that he just hates him. And the fact he doesn't understand the stats that he is talking about. PER has nothing to do with team yet he spouts it out. He is not very smart.

Yet you have lbj above durant for MVP :rolleyes:

IKnowHoops
03-13-2014, 10:00 PM
But he doesn't MATCH every other stat. LeBron has him beat in every category. A negligible difference is something that can be made up in a game or two. Nearly 2 assists more isn't a negligible difference (especially when he averaged less turnovers). 31.6 to 30.3 isn't a negligible difference in PER. .322 WS/48 to .306 isn't a negligible difference. 5 more points a game doesn't make up for LeBron beating KD in literally EVERY OTHER SINGLE STATISTICAL CATEGORY.


When you take into account LeBron won more games, dominated the playoffs, won a ring and Finals MVP, you think 5 more points a game makes KD's season more historic? Okay.

You're a Kobe fan, of course you think scoring points carries more weight than everything else :rolleyes:

If KD dominates the playoffs, wins a ring and wins Finals MVP, come back and have this discussion with me. Until then, there isn't an argument to be had.

The thing is he isn't smart enough to understand the stats so he thinks its negligible. Lebron is closer in PER to Durant this year, and the PER race really isn't that close. After Brons 61 pt game, he still wasn't that close in PER. This dude just has no idea of what the heck he is talking about period. He doesn't realize that a 1pt PER difference can't be made up anytime soon.

IKnowHoops
03-13-2014, 10:01 PM
:yawn: fine, we shall revisit this after the season and get an unbiased opinion on it. But by that time I'm sure somebody will have already made a thread titled "congrats on MVP kd and the best statistical season since mj"

Only if its you.

IKnowHoops
03-13-2014, 10:02 PM
Yet you have lbj above durant for MVP :rolleyes:

Says who? Find that post please?

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-14-2014, 08:30 AM
I don't follow mass media for the most part, but I checked in on NBA . Com's "race to the MVP" and they had Lebron as #1. That was the main reason I mentioned that along with various ESPN broadcast comments I've heard.


The thing is that he could've easily taken over with both OKC and Indy (massively) slipping over the past 10 games, but he just isn't closing as most were predicting. I'm sure KD deserves it, but they're just not there yet from a mass media standpoint.

"Paranoid" is a funny word choice, I have no vested interest other than arguing the best candidate on here. If OKC and KD lose in the 1st round of the playoffs I'll be a happy man (easier road for GSW if they go on).

NBA.com has a weekly "race for MVP ranking" all you saw was lebron having a better weak and hence he was 1. It is why I barely check it. All it is, is one mans opinion.

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-14-2014, 08:30 AM
Nice to see Frazier fix some of the confusion the regular confused trolls have on here.

beyourself
03-14-2014, 02:17 PM
Not sure KD has won yet. In reality yes he's won, but like someone said voters don't live in reality. Nobody from the media is pushing KD as MVP. There is no Durant MVP push. It's simply him dropping huge games.

Remember the great MVP robbery of 2010. LeBron was the MVP, but if you watched ESPN and the media they pushed so damn hard for Rose to undeservedly win.

LeBron can still win.

dalton749
03-14-2014, 09:28 PM
lowry for mvp lol

jerellh528
03-14-2014, 10:27 PM
Heat lose again, lbj with another sub par game. How long is this going to last?

zn23
03-15-2014, 04:54 AM
LeBron's throwing it away.. not really his fault though because neither Bosh or Wade have been consistent enough. Some games he'll get Wade to produce, but Bosh won't, and vice versa. Bosh was disaster against the Nuggets.

jerellh528
03-15-2014, 05:11 AM
Only lbj can go through a bad stretch of games and a losing streak and still get a "not really his fault" :rolleyes:

stawka
03-15-2014, 07:02 AM
It's over now. Congrats to KD... A phenomenal season and one hell of a player

I wanted LeBron to win it, but KD has just been ridiculous this year. Well deserved

FraziersKnicks
03-15-2014, 07:41 AM
Only lbj can go through a bad stretch of games and a losing streak and still get a "not really his fault" :rolleyes:

Only LBJ can average 20/6/7 with 3 steals and it be considered a "bad stretch of games" :rolleyes:

tredigs
03-15-2014, 10:06 AM
Only LBJ can average 20/6/7 with 3 steals and it be considered a "bad stretch of games" :rolleyes:

You don't think Durant would be getting torn up in here if he averaged that for a stretch of games? He's averaging 35/7/6 over the past couple months and we still get guys harping on him on here.

FraziersKnicks
03-15-2014, 10:33 AM
You don't think Durant would be getting torn up in here if he averaged that for a stretch of games? He's averaging 35/7/6 over the past couple months and we still get guys harping on him on here.

Not on the same level LeBron gets criticised.

I don't think anyone has been getting on KD's lack of production (and if they are they don't know what they're talking about), but the little losing streak the Thunder went on combined with LBJ's 61 point game put a little bit of pressure on KD and made the race tighter. KD wasn't slowing down but LBJ was gaining a bit of ground before he hit this little rough patch.

At the end of the day LBJ has a lot more haters on here because a lot of Kobe fans are intimidated by his impending march up the all-time list. Until KD wins a few MVP's and ringzzzz (the one thing these Kobe fans value more than anything), they won't feel as intimidated by him overtaking their boy.

One thing is for sure, LBJ's play is a lot more scrutinised than KD (and any player for that matter), which is strange because he really doesn't have that much more to prove.

Baller1
03-15-2014, 10:36 AM
Only LBJ can average 20/6/7 with 3 steals and it be considered a "bad stretch of games" :rolleyes:

You mean like when KD was "slowing down" while averaging 33/7/7 on TS of 63% over a three week period? :rolleyes:

beyourself
03-15-2014, 11:00 AM
Not on the same level LeBron gets criticised.

I don't think anyone has been getting on KD's lack of production (and if they are they don't know what they're talking about), but the little losing streak the Thunder went on combined with LBJ's 61 point game put a little bit of pressure on KD and made the race tighter. KD wasn't slowing down but LBJ was gaining a bit of ground before he hit this little rough patch.

At the end of the day LBJ has a lot more haters on here because a lot of Kobe fans are intimidated by his impending march up the all-time list. Until KD wins a few MVP's and ringzzzz (the one thing these Kobe fans value more than anything), they won't feel as intimidated by him overtaking their boy.

One thing is for sure, LBJ's play is a lot more scrutinised than KD (and any player for that matter), which is strange because he really doesn't have that much more to prove.

If LeBron would tone down the ego and pride then he wouldn't have nearly as many haters. Sure he'd have some, but if he was half as humble as Durant he wouldn't be so hated.

FraziersKnicks
03-15-2014, 11:08 AM
You mean like when KD was "slowing down" while averaging 33/7/7 on TS of 63% over a three week period? :rolleyes:

Look to the people who were claiming he was slowing down? Do they really demonstrate any knowledge of basketball?

beyourself
03-15-2014, 11:12 AM
Look to the people who were claiming he was slowing down? Do they really demonstrate any knowledge of basketball?

He's slowing down athletically for sure. Go watch him in his last season with the Cavs probably his athletic peak. He hardly dunks out of the halfcourt set anymore like he used to.

1. He's 29 years old, athletic peak is usually 25.
2. He's in his 11th season.
3. He's played huge minutes
4. He's a huge man

All these things wear the body down.

FraziersKnicks
03-15-2014, 11:23 AM
If LeBron would tone down the ego and pride then he wouldn't have nearly as many haters. Sure he'd have some, but if he was half as humble as Durant he wouldn't be so hated.

There's nothing wrong with having pride. LeBron's ego hasn't won him a lot of fans but can you really blame the guy? He's been lauded as the 2nd coming of Michael Jordan since he was about 15 years old. I actually think we should applaud him for dealing with the pressure and surpassing the incredible expectations bestowed upon him when he was a teenager. I think he has room to brag after living up to the hype.

The guy is a two time NBA champion, 4 time MVP and has had more doubters than any other player in NBA history. I think he's allowed to have an ego. That ego might not win him any fans but his basketball play will and that's what matters. His ego has never driven players away from the team (cough cough Kobe). It might have hurt his public perception but do you really think that matters to him? Would you wanna be known as a nice humble guy who was never a champion? Or an egotistical multiple time NBA champion?

If KD doesn't get a ring but keeps stocking up on these incredible seasons, he's gonna start to feel the pressure. People were already making jokes about LeBron not having any rings when he was 21/22 which is just ridiculous, KD seems to have avoided that pressure up until now.

Anywayyyy, back on topic... KD looks like he's got this one wrapped up and deservedly so. I will admit I wanted LeBron to win, but KD deserves it more.

Goose17
03-15-2014, 11:55 AM
If KD doesn't get a ring but keeps stocking up on these incredible seasons, he's gonna start to feel the pressure. People were already making jokes about LeBron not having any rings when he was 21/22 which is just ridiculous, KD seems to have avoided that pressure up until now.


This, I've never understood why KD has avoided all the pressure. People are ready to call him as good as Lebron, but any time somebody compares Lebron to Kobe they would say "DURRR not until he has championshipz durrr"

Moronic argument anyway but still.



For me the MVP race is clearly between Lebron and KD, there's nobody else worth mentioning now.

Baller1
03-15-2014, 12:21 PM
This, I've never understood why KD has avoided all the pressure. People are ready to call him as good as Lebron, but any time somebody compares Lebron to Kobe they would say "DURRR not until he has championshipz durrr"

Moronic argument anyway but still.



For me the MVP race is clearly between Lebron and KD, there's nobody else worth mentioning now.

He's only 25, it will come soon enough.

beyourself
03-15-2014, 12:44 PM
KD hasn't gotten much criticism.

1. He's humble. Right or wrong being humble has put him in good graces.

2. He has no MVP's and nobody calls him the best player in the league to this day, he's still recognized by that "other guy", the 2nd best player. It's still LeBron's league to the NBA.

shep33
03-15-2014, 12:55 PM
Still KD for me

FraziersKnicks
03-15-2014, 02:47 PM
He's only 25, it will come soon enough.

At the same age LeBron was heavily criticised for being ringless and "choking" with that absolutely dreadful Cavs team whereas KD seems to be getting a pass up until now.

Considering he's had so much more help than LeBron had had up until the age of 25 I think KD is definitely getting different treatment.

beyourself
03-15-2014, 02:51 PM
At the same age LeBron was heavily criticised for being ringless and "choking" with that absolutely dreadful Cavs team whereas KD seems to be getting a pass up until now.

Considering he's had so much more help than LeBron had had up until the age of 25 I think KD is definitely getting different treatment.

Well he treats the fans better. I don't want to turn on the TV and watch the decision. I don't want to read about him being on his own Mt. Rushmore. I prefer Kevin Durant's humility and so do others.

I don't want this to turn into a flame thread, but this is just how I feel about the 2 players and how they carry themselves professionally.

Goose17
03-15-2014, 03:53 PM
At the same age LeBron was heavily criticised for being ringless and "choking" with that absolutely dreadful Cavs team whereas KD seems to be getting a pass up until now.

Considering he's had so much more help than LeBron had had up until the age of 25 I think KD is definitely getting different treatment.

Exactly^

And aside from "the decision" Lebron has been a very humble guy. People confuse confidence with arrogance.

Let's face it, people compare Durant to Lebron on a daily basis, some would even argue that he's better. But he's literally done nothing. If OKC had defeated Miami in the finals, people would be calling Lebron a choke artist and proclaiming Durant as a king. The reversed happens, and nobody has any criticism for Durant? He's had more help in his early years than Lebron ever had, and nobody seems to take that into consideration at all.

FraziersKnicks
03-15-2014, 05:37 PM
Well he treats the fans better. I don't want to turn on the TV and watch the decision. I don't want to read about him being on his own Mt. Rushmore. I prefer Kevin Durant's humility and so do others.

I don't want this to turn into a flame thread, but this is just how I feel about the 2 players and how they carry themselves professionally.

He treats the fans better? How do you know that? What about the millions LeBron raised for charity through "The Decision"? I'm sure neither of them treat their fans badly. I'm not trying to make anyone like LeBron, but to say KD treats his fans better is a pretty bold statement that you can't prove.

It's your opinion so whatever...

Lion
03-15-2014, 11:31 PM
Wow it seems that Lebron is regressing right now, after that 61 point game it all went south. Clearly his play is the reason of his team's downfall.

Stunner
03-15-2014, 11:53 PM
Noah !!!!!!!


Jimmer invented Tapatalk.

Rndy
03-16-2014, 01:44 AM
Most doubters in history? Please amazes me how little people actually know about this game believe it or not the NBA did not start in the 2000s. There were guys who had to fear for their life because of the color of their skin those are the guys who should be applauded and had real doubters. Not some guy who called himself a King in high school.

jerellh528
03-16-2014, 01:46 AM
Hey so just wondering guys, when does the "coasting" stop? It's probably a good time to start turning it on, right? I heard just about every lbj or heat supporter say he was going to show the world that he's just coasting and still the undisputed best player on the planet, and the heat were gunna catch fire.. So yeah when are they gunna do it?

Rndy
03-16-2014, 01:50 AM
Lebron is an amazing player but I don't believe he should have more MVPs than MJ eventually they just stopped giving it to the guy and would give it to whoever was 2nd it's not the best player award it's most valuable to their team without Lebron are the Heat a lottery team? No they aren't without guys like Noah, Paul George, Derozan, Dirk ect their teams probably wouldn't even make the playoffs. Some time during this era that award got away from what it actually is. Lebron deserved it in CLE he doesn't deserve it anymore he gave up the right when he joined with two other outstanding players.

Rndy
03-16-2014, 01:54 AM
At the same age LeBron was heavily criticised for being ringless and "choking" with that absolutely dreadful Cavs team whereas KD seems to be getting a pass up until now.

Considering he's had so much more help than LeBron had had up until the age of 25 I think KD is definitely getting different treatment.

Agreed 100% and it's because of the way Lebron carries himself or how other people view him. People don't exactly like to hear someone called a King when they aren't winning titles.

P&GRealist
03-16-2014, 03:37 AM
15 games left, Durant is in the driver's seat.

Goose17
03-16-2014, 11:01 AM
Most doubters in history? Please amazes me how little people actually know about this game believe it or not the NBA did not start in the 2000s. There were guys who had to fear for their life because of the color of their skin those are the guys who should be applauded and had real doubters. Not some guy who called himself a King in high school.

He didn't call himself the King in high school it's a nick name he was given.

And by "most doubters" people are referring to people doubting his ability to win, be the best, get championships etc. None of the people you are referring to had "doubters" in terms of their talent, they had bigots and racists, it's not the same thing, not even close.

NOBODY in the history of the league has been put under a microscope like Lebron has, not even Jordan. And that's in large part due to the internet and social media.

tredigs
03-16-2014, 02:35 PM
Now I'm starting to think Noah's actually going to overtake Bron for the #2 votes. His play and their story really has been unreal for a couple months now. If they stay red hot and approach 50 wins while Bron and Miami continue to falter, I'd probably be on board with it. 14/12/7 on great efficiency with elite paint D for months on end after the GM essentially decided to try and tank the team (yet they're now HCA) this season is fun to watch.

P&GRealist
03-16-2014, 04:24 PM
Now I'm starting to think Noah's actually going to overtake Bron for the #2 votes. His play and their story really has been unreal for a couple months now. If they stay red hot and approach 50 wins while Bron and Miami continue to falter, I'd probably be on board with it. 14/12/7 on great efficiency with elite paint D for months on end after the GM essentially decided to try and tank the team (yet they're now HCA) this season is fun to watch.

Noah was no where to be found early on in the season.

LeBron will finish at #2. Noah has been on a tear since the AS break.

But what about before that?

Shammyguy3
03-16-2014, 09:16 PM
Noah since December 2nd in 49 games is averaging 13.4ppg 12.2rpg 5.4apg 1.8bpg 1.1spg in 35.8mpg
During that same stretch he's posting a 55.6ts% 19.5trb% 26.5ast% 17.5tov% 19.1usg% 113 ORtg 97 DRtg



So no, it's not just him performing after the all-star break. Nowhere to be found, if that constitutes those numbers above then i'd love everybody on the Bulls to be well, nowhere.

tredigs
03-17-2014, 12:26 AM
Noah since December 2nd in 49 games is averaging 13.4ppg 12.2rpg 5.4apg 1.8bpg 1.1spg in 35.8mpg
During that same stretch he's posting a 55.6ts% 19.5trb% 26.5ast% 17.5tov% 19.1usg% 113 ORtg 97 DRtg



So no, it's not just him performing after the all-star break. Nowhere to be found, if that constitutes those numbers above then i'd love everybody on the Bulls to be well, nowhere.

And to be honest those #'s don't do justice to the fact that he anchors the #2 defense in the NBA while Lebron has had arguably (it's tougher to prove with #'s, but this is more like a most definitely) his worst defensive season of the past 5 seasons and the Heats defense as a whole is middle of the pack this year.

Like I said, I'd probably need this trend (of both teams) to continue for the next couple weeks, but Noah has a very interesting argument for #2 if it does.

Shammyguy3
03-17-2014, 12:37 AM
I don't think Noah's had a more valuable season than Lebron myself, I think we're a little caught up in the "Lebron's been pedestrian for his own self the past few weeks" scenario still. Noah could absolutely be argued as a top-5 MVP candidate though, perhaps as the 3rd most valuable player to his team in the entire league (which is how I look at the award).

If you argue for him as 2nd, I think you're in the minority. But it is indeed a lot harder to justify a player like Noah whose value is rooted with his defense. A question I routinely see non-Bulls fans ask on this forum is, how much of that defense is just Thibs' philosophy? Following that, how much is it Thibs covering up his weaknesses? Both valid questions, but I think Noah's just as vital to the success of the defense as Thibs is at this point. I can't fault a great defensive player for improving under a great defensive coach, that's like crediting Phil Jackson for all of Scottie Pippen's offensive success in the triangle (might be an extreme analogy, but it gets the point across)

tredigs
03-17-2014, 12:50 AM
Noah hasn't out produced Lebron - especially statistically - that's for sure. But, in the "what have you done for me lately" world that the media (see: the voters) live in, I think he makes a very interesting case if this continues. I could easily see him stealing votes.

Shammyguy3
03-17-2014, 01:04 AM
i can see him stealing some votes in the pure sense of most "valuable" to a team, but i don't think on the whole that he'd earn more votes than Lebron. The highest he'll go is #3, realistically I see him as #4

goingfor28
03-17-2014, 02:14 AM
Durant
Lebron
Blake
Noah
?

Bruno
03-17-2014, 04:02 PM
where does Noah finish in MVP voting?

3rd? 4th? 5th? 6th?

does he land all nba first team in the process? i think he deserves it, and I'm not just saying that because I think Dwight Howard is a black-hole who doesn't take the game seriously.

ManRam
03-17-2014, 04:08 PM
I don't follow mass media for the most part, but I checked in on NBA . Com's "race to the MVP" and they had Lebron as #1. That was the main reason I mentioned that along with various ESPN broadcast comments I've heard.


The thing is that he could've easily taken over with both OKC and Indy (massively) slipping over the past 10 games, but he just isn't closing as most were predicting. I'm sure KD deserves it, but they're just not there yet from a mass media standpoint.

"Paranoid" is a funny word choice, I have no vested interest other than arguing the best candidate on here. If OKC and KD lose in the 1st round of the playoffs I'll be a happy man (easier road for GSW if they go on).

That's one HORRIBLE person's opinion.

One.


It's more clear today than when I originally posted, but yeah...there's no reason to worry that the right thing won't be done here (pardon my use of paranoia...I just don't quite sense the same push for LeBron at all)

jerellh528
03-17-2014, 06:34 PM
Nba race to MVP finally bumped kd up to his rightful #1 spot, and the rest of their ranking in pretty spot on also IMO.

beyourself
03-17-2014, 07:16 PM
Nba race to MVP finally bumped kd up to his rightful #1 spot, and the rest of their ranking in pretty spot on also IMO.

It's just 1 man's opinion who would rather shove a narrative down our throats than be dull and correct.

MVP race is over.

jerellh528
03-17-2014, 09:55 PM
It's just 1 man's opinion who would rather shove a narrative down our throats than be dull and correct.

MVP race is over.

I know it's just awkward that lbj was number 1 on those rankings for so long.

Chronz
03-17-2014, 11:14 PM
The season cant end soon enough, its pretty much set in stone but I want my money.

beyourself
03-18-2014, 12:54 PM
I think the smart thing to do right now for the Heat is to concede the MVP race because LeBron is so tired and it's over. I would give him 3-4 games off for the rest of the season. Similar to what the Thunder are doing with Westbrook.

Time to gear up for the playoffs.

JordansBulls
03-18-2014, 01:00 PM
Durant is just on another level right now from Lebron this season. Leading in the same metrics Lebron would lead in, except he has added PPG to his list as well.

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-18-2014, 11:56 PM
Lebron with 43/6/4 on 74.4% FG. 0 turnovers, 2 steals, 3 blocks.

NOW PLS DONT SUCK THE NEXT 3 GAMES. :mad:

P&GRealist
03-19-2014, 12:13 AM
Durant with 5-6 more good games and I say he has the MVP in the bag.

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-19-2014, 01:10 AM
Durant with 5-6 more good games and I say he has the MVP in the bag.

IMO he already has it in the bag.

jerellh528
03-19-2014, 01:30 AM
Durant with 5-6 more good games and I say he has the MVP in the bag.

That ship sailed already, it's in the bag, locked in a vault, in a high security casino.

ManRam
03-19-2014, 09:53 AM
Durant with 5-6 more good games and I say he has the MVP in the bag.

As others have said, it's already in the bag. Maybe an injury that forces him to miss the rest of the season...god forbid...but that's about the only hope Bron has :shrug:

Slug3
03-19-2014, 10:20 AM
As others have said, it's already in the bag. Maybe an injury that forces him to miss the rest of the season...god forbid...but that's about the only hope Bron has :shrug:

And honestly KD has just played better for the majority of the season compared to Lebron.

Chronz
03-19-2014, 12:29 PM
Durant is just on another level right now from Lebron this season. Leading in the same metrics Lebron would lead in, except he has added PPG to his list as well.

I dont see it that way, they are on the same level, Durant is just a notch higher.

beyourself
03-19-2014, 01:52 PM
What separates Durant from LeBron in this MVP race is his consistency IMO. They have both had spectacular games and stretches of games.

It's just that Durant hasn't had those same lulls that LeBron has had. He just hardly ever has a bad game.

northsider
03-19-2014, 06:24 PM
Just good to see the NBA have titans like Durant and Lebron in the league.

bucketss
03-19-2014, 07:20 PM
I dont see it that way, they are on the same level, Durant is just a notch higher.

i wouldn't be surprised if ben wallace is brought up in his response to this, idk how but JB will make it work.

P&GRealist
03-19-2014, 07:21 PM
I dont see it that way, they are on the same level, Durant is just a notch higher.

Then that means they are on different levels. :confused:

ChicagoFan4Eva
03-19-2014, 07:24 PM
Durant's mvp to lose.

goingfor28
03-19-2014, 08:29 PM
Byron Mullens

Chronz
03-20-2014, 10:35 AM
Then that means they are on different levels. :confused:
Tier system. The gap in their play hasn't been too extreme to me, even with Durant clearly being better all year.

Chronz
03-20-2014, 10:38 AM
i wouldn't be surprised if ben wallace is brought up in his response to this, idk how but JB will make it work.

That "Ben Wallace at 34 should be able to perform as Dennis Rodman did at 34 because its science" logic

valade16
03-20-2014, 05:35 PM
I dont see it that way, they are on the same level, Durant is just a notch higher.

What about with Defense factored in?

beyourself
03-20-2014, 06:32 PM
What about with Defense factored in?

That just even further supports Durant. LeBron is having the worst defensive season of his career. The stats say he is. And the eye test shows it. He flat out slacks on defense this season. For a guy as physically gifted as him he's been bad on defense this year.

EL_MACHETE
03-22-2014, 03:03 AM
KD for MVP!

tredigs
03-22-2014, 04:25 AM
I guess you really know it's over when his game tonight isn't even worth a mention. That game winner was ice. One of the top ten or so performances of the year by a player.

kobe4thewinbang
03-22-2014, 12:46 PM
I guess you really know it's over when his game tonight isn't even worth a mention. That game winner was ice. One of the top ten or so performances of the year by a player.Yeah, unless LBJ scores 99 to beat the Pacers in 4OT overtime, the MVP award is Durant's.

kobe4thewinbang
03-22-2014, 12:48 PM
I think the smart thing to do right now for the Heat is to concede the MVP race because LeBron is so tired and it's over. I would give him 3-4 games off for the rest of the season. Similar to what the Thunder are doing with Westbrook.

Time to gear up for the playoffs.Seems smart but with a hot-and-cold Wade, can Miami afford to sit LBJ and essentially concede home court advantage to the Pacers (who by all likelihood will face Miami in the playoffs)?

jerellh528
03-22-2014, 12:58 PM
Seems smart but with a hot-and-cold Wade, can Miami afford to sit LBJ and essentially concede home court advantage to the Pacers (who by all likelihood will face Miami in the playoffs)?

That's dumb, the heat and lbj are simply coasting.

kobe4thewinbang
03-22-2014, 01:29 PM
That's dumb, the heat and lbj are simply coasting.Coasting into Indiana for Game 7?

jerellh528
03-22-2014, 04:19 PM
Coasting into Indiana for Game 7?

Yeah, trust me it's just a matter of time before lbj and the heat show the world that they are the best on the planet still. Trust me they're coasting.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2014, 06:49 PM
Yeah, trust me it's just a matter of time before lbj and the heat show the world that they are the best on the planet still. Trust me they're coasting.

This season for them I believe was all about making sure the big 3, especially Wade, were given plenty of strategic rest, and their on court efforts reduced to save them for the playoffs.

Playing 3 straight years in the finals will do that to a team.

But, to the topic, Durant is winning it this year. At this point, I don't think there is any debating that anymore. LeBron had a few weeks where he looked like he was gearing up to take over again, but then quieted down again.

This one is in the bank..

AnthonyTyrael2
03-23-2014, 10:04 AM
But, to the topic, Durant is winning it this year. At this point, I don't think there is any debating that anymore. LeBron had a few weeks where he looked like he was gearing up to take over again, but then quieted down again.

This one is in the bank..

It is, and it's not a debate. There's nothing speaking for LBJ. Durant raised his game, while LBJ decreased statistically and faced some embarrasing losses, peformances. After the all star break, when he recognized that he would be losing if he continues like that, and with his +60 point game, he showed some competiton but since then, he fell down hard off his throne. The past somehwat games, which should have been a desperate fight to regain, that was nothing compared to Durant. Neither as player nor as in team effort/success. However, the true crwon will be taken at the end of the play offs.

tredigs
03-24-2014, 04:53 PM
By the #'s going into the closing set of games:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2014&p2=jamesle01&y2=2014#per_game::none

Crazy how close their Assist%'s have come this season, with KD averaging the exact same apg (6.3) over the past couple months. Team record's LBJ's last ditch chance, but it looks like the ship has sailed for him. 'Grats to KD as the true MVP of the season.

Clippersfan86
03-25-2014, 02:33 AM
Blake with 27 points, 14 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 blocks tonight. Game before he had 29/7/7/2. Vs Denver 3 games ago he had 26/12/8. After a subpar by recent standards week.. he's bounced back strong last three games. Still number 3 in MVP race. If somehow the Clippers could grab 1 seed or even 2... I think he has to be at least considered as a long shot.

tredigs
03-25-2014, 02:47 AM
Blake with 27 points, 14 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 blocks tonight. Game before he had 29/7/7/2. Vs Denver 3 games ago he had 26/12/8. After a subpar by recent standards week.. he's bounced back strong last three games. Still number 3 in MVP race. If somehow the Clippers could grab 1 seed or even 2... I think he has to be at least considered as a long shot.

No.

Goose17
03-25-2014, 03:38 AM
I would like to see KD get it, simply because I doubt Lebron cares about MVPs anymore, and it's about time Durant won something, he's earned this.

Wouldn't be surprised if Lebron still edged him out in the voting though, unfortunately.

tredigs
03-25-2014, 04:07 AM
I would like to see KD get it, simply because I doubt Lebron cares about MVPs anymore, and it's about time Durant won something, he's earned this.

Wouldn't be surprised if Lebron still edged him out in the voting though, unfortunately.

Judging by his comments, I'd say it's blatantly obvious Lebron still cares about MVP's and his reputation as a whole.

Lebron won't win the vote, and he certainly won't deserve the vote. Durant's play this season is high ranking on the "deservedness" scale for MVP's.

jerellh528
03-25-2014, 04:51 AM
I would like to see KD get it, simply because I doubt Lebron cares about MVPs anymore, and it's about time Durant won something, he's earned this.

Wouldn't be surprised if Lebron still edged him out in the voting though, unfortunately.

Actually it's pretty evident he cares a lot about MVP.
I kinda agree with this article about James and his infatuation with stats and Mvps.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24410776/lebrons-durant-comments-are-really-about-angling-for-another-mvp

Or this one about MVP
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-02-28/sports/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-mvp-20140228_1_mvp-trophy-mario-chalmers-center-chris-bosh


Or this video of him saying he wants to be MVP
http://youtu.be/gFxeug6Ipk4

koreancabbage
03-25-2014, 11:37 AM
Actually it's pretty evident he cares a lot about MVP.
I kinda agree with this article about James and his infatuation with stats and Mvps.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24410776/lebrons-durant-comments-are-really-about-angling-for-another-mvp

Or this one about MVP
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-02-28/sports/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-mvp-20140228_1_mvp-trophy-mario-chalmers-center-chris-bosh


Or this video of him saying he wants to be MVP
http://youtu.be/gFxeug6Ipk4

all players care about stats. They all look at the stat sheet afterwards. I don't believe for a second that no NBA player care about stats. Stats is what gets players the big bucks. Even if Lebron is vocal about stats - or wants to be MVP, which star player in their prime doesn't (unless you're mad old or decrepit as the SA spurs who are cycled on and off DNPs for most of the season - who just want championships now)

Durant wants to be MVP as well. no doubt about but just goes about it in a different manner. he's soft spoken but he's hungry.

Baller1
03-25-2014, 11:42 AM
Every single player to ever play the game wants (wanted) to be MVP.

Goose17
03-25-2014, 04:39 PM
Actually it's pretty evident he cares a lot about MVP.
I kinda agree with this article about James and his infatuation with stats and Mvps.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24410776/lebrons-durant-comments-are-really-about-angling-for-another-mvp

Or this one about MVP
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-02-28/sports/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-mvp-20140228_1_mvp-trophy-mario-chalmers-center-chris-bosh


Or this video of him saying he wants to be MVP
http://youtu.be/gFxeug6Ipk4

I never said he doesn't WANT to be MVP. I said he probably doesn't care about it. He'll want it, same as every other player in the league, but he's likely focusing on getting the threepeat, he has the same amount of MVPs as Kobe, Shaq and Duncan combined. One more and he's tied with Jordan.

He will always want it, I just think it's low down on his priority list.

Goose17
03-25-2014, 04:47 PM
Lebron won't win the vote, and he certainly won't deserve the vote. Durant's play this season is high ranking on the "deservedness" scale for MVP's.

Durant deserves it more but if Lebron wins it I wouldn't care, I mean it's not he's undeserving, just marginally less deserving than Durant.

Baller1
03-25-2014, 06:06 PM
At this point, he's much less deserving than KD.

Goose17
03-25-2014, 06:26 PM
At this point, he's much less deserving than KD.

No he's not.

jerellh528
03-25-2014, 06:57 PM
Durant is much more deserving than james. Even the biggest leBoners would agree.

Goose17
03-25-2014, 07:01 PM
Durant is much more deserving than james. Even the biggest leBoners would agree.

He deserves it more but not nearly as much as some of you are implying. Lebron is still the superior player and if he were to get the MVP award, it wouldn't be right, but there's literally no other second choice.

Baller1
03-25-2014, 07:02 PM
He deserves it more but not nearly as much as some of you are implying. Lebron is still the superior player and if he were to get the MVP award, it wouldn't be right, but there's literally no other second choice.

That doesn't mean Durant is way more deserving.

Lebron has pretty much zero argument over KD at this point, which consequently means that Durant is much more deserving.

Goose17
03-25-2014, 07:24 PM
Lebron has pretty much zero argument over KD at this point,

That's a gross exaggeration. KD has had the better season in general, but to say you can't even make an argument for Lebron is ludicrous.

Baller1
03-25-2014, 07:31 PM
That's a gross exaggeration. KD has had the better season in general, but to say you can't even make an argument for Lebron is ludicrous.

Make one for him then...

He had one about two-three weeks ago. Now, it's not even close.

beyourself
03-25-2014, 09:22 PM
Broadcasters do piss me off to no end though about the MVP. They act like because LeBron is the better player that KD can't be MVP.

"Well KD is having the better season, but has he surpassed LeBron to win the MVP"?

WTF is this? The MVP doesn't go to the best overall player in the NBA. It's a body of work for that season.

tredigs
03-27-2014, 03:14 AM
Broadcasters do piss me off to no end though about the MVP. They act like because LeBron is the better player that KD can't be MVP.

"Well KD is having the better season, but has he surpassed LeBron to win the MVP"?

WTF is this? The MVP doesn't go to the best overall player in the NBA. It's a body of work for that season.

ESPN: "Indiana withstands Lebron's 38 to take down Heat"... As if 38 is some major accomplishment relative to what we're seeing.

I'm wondering how many casual fans actually realize that KD is averaging 35/7.5/6 the past three months on a 65% TS, and just how absurd that is. The Heat have **** the bed, and this MVP debate is being manufactured to be much closer than it truly is at this point.

Bruno
03-27-2014, 04:57 AM
its been over since january, although LBJ almost made it a debate for a couple of weeks there.

kdspurman
03-27-2014, 09:08 AM
ESPN: "Indiana withstands Lebron's 38 to take down Heat"... As if 38 is some major accomplishment relative to what we're seeing.

I'm wondering how many casual fans actually realize that KD is averaging 35/7.5/6 the past three months on a 65% TS, and just how absurd that is. The Heat have **** the bed, and this MVP debate is being manufactured to be much closer than it truly is at this point.

ESPN is the worst with that kind of stuff. I don't see how Durant doesn't win it at this point. BTW, I didn't realize those numbers for the last 3 months. Insane

Goose17
03-27-2014, 10:00 AM
Make one for him then...

He had one about two-three weeks ago. Now, it's not even close.

Well it's just as well the MVP award is for the entire season and not the last three weeks then, isn't it?


At the end of the day, KD deserves it more. But if Lebron wins it, it wouldn't be completely undeserving, just less deserving. Like how Rose won it. It's not that he wasn't an MVP caliber player, just that he was the second choice, or should have been anyway.

tredigs
03-27-2014, 10:17 AM
Well it's just as well the MVP award is for the entire season and not the last three weeks then, isn't it?


At the end of the day, KD deserves it more. But if Lebron wins it, it wouldn't be completely undeserving, just less deserving. Like how Rose won it. It's not that he wasn't an MVP caliber player, just that he was the second choice, or should have been anyway.

Much different scenario on account of D Rose being the fresh young superstar who was the face and leader of an up and coming team that went from .500 in 2009 to 62 wins and the #1 ranked team in the NBA in 2010. Similar scenario for Nash when he came to Phoenix. Lebron has nothing like that going for him and won't garner the "storyline" vote. This year, there's nobody with a particularly great story aside from maybe KD keeping OKC as the #1 seed the entire time Westbrook was out while having that incredible January (that he still hasn't really fallen from). But, overall, it's a season where it's just about who has been the top individual producer for a top team - aka the leagues best player this season - and that's Durant to this point.

torocan
03-27-2014, 10:40 AM
KD's to lose at this point.

Lebron has an amazing body of work, but the MVP is about THIS season. And when it comes to THIS season, KD is the clear winner so far.

Baller1
03-27-2014, 01:36 PM
Well it's just as well the MVP award is for the entire season and not the last three weeks then, isn't it?


At the end of the day, KD deserves it more. But if Lebron wins it, it wouldn't be completely undeserving, just less deserving. Like how Rose won it. It's not that he wasn't an MVP caliber player, just that he was the second choice, or should have been anyway.

Rose wasn't even deserving that season... He wasn't even a top 3 player.

Lebron had a great season, but it doesn't even compare to the season KD had. Therefore, Lebron shouldn't even have a chance at MVP... Sadly though, he will.

beyourself
03-27-2014, 02:11 PM
It's gotten just really disgraceful the LeBron for MVP hypetrain. He doesn't have a single rational argument or leg to stand on for MVP.

So some people are just resorting to "LeBron is the best player in the NBA".

RiLoc
03-27-2014, 04:01 PM
I think the favorite is clearly Kevin Durant. He's crushing LeBron in terms of the statistics most widely used. The most striking to me is how far ahead he is in win shares. KD has also had some pretty incredible triumphs, most spectacularly his scoring streaks.


KD Bron
WS 17.4 13.8
PER 30.4 29.1
PPG 32.2 27.0
TS% .640 .650
RPG 7.6 6.9
REB% 11.1 11.4
APG 5.6 6.9
AST% 27.0 31.7
SPG 1.3 1.6
BLK 0.8 0.3
RAPM 3.8 5.6

It doesn't help that LeBron is having a weaker season this year. Statistically LeBron's numbers are worse across the board compared to last year with the exception of 2-point field goal percentage and free throw rate.

MonroeFAN
03-27-2014, 06:02 PM
KD Bron
WS 17.4 13.8
PER 30.4 29.1
PPG 32.2 27.0
TS% .640 .650
RPG 7.6 6.9
REB% 11.1 11.4
APG 5.6 6.9
AST% 27.0 31.7
SPG 1.3 1.6
BLK 0.8 0.3
RAPM 3.8 5.6


While I agree that this is Durant's year, Lebron wins out in this chart.

northsider
03-27-2014, 10:01 PM
Rose wasn't even deserving that season... He wasn't even a top 3 player.

Lebron had a great season, but it doesn't even compare to the season KD had. Therefore, Lebron shouldn't even have a chance at MVP... Sadly though, he will.

Not deserving?

Terrible choice of words. He may not have been THE MOST deserving but, he was certainly deserving. Still don't think it was any sort of robbery most of you have made it out to be non stop.

Annnd end random Rose support post.

Goose17
03-28-2014, 06:49 AM
Not deserving?

Terrible choice of words. He may not have been THE MOST deserving but, he was certainly deserving. Still don't think it was any sort of robbery most of you have made it out to be non stop.

Annnd end random Rose support post.

Agreed^

valade16
03-28-2014, 12:18 PM
How long would Kevin Durant have to keep up his superior play to LeBron to be considered better than him?

1 season? 2?

I find it interesting that people use the first season LeBron outplayed Kobe to say “LeBron has been better than Kobe since that point” but with Kevin Durant surpassing LeBron it’s “we can’t say with certainty if KD is better than LeBron at this point”.

Where is the consistency?

tredigs
03-28-2014, 01:09 PM
How long would Kevin Durant have to keep up his superior play to LeBron to be considered better than him?

1 season? 2?

I find it interesting that people use the first season LeBron outplayed Kobe to say “LeBron has been better than Kobe since that point” but with Kevin Durant surpassing LeBron it’s “we can’t say with certainty if KD is better than LeBron at this point”.

Where is the consistency?

For me it would have to be through the playoffs and into the beginning of next year. It's a 1a/b scenario as is, though.

King41
03-28-2014, 01:53 PM
first place and to me this place its all about

1) KD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no chance for lebron to me

2) Lebron

other (no order) : Noah-curry-george and at i also want to add dirk because at his age he plays crazy good basketball and it is sad to see the mavs ****ing up his last years

jerellh528
03-28-2014, 02:48 PM
How long would Kevin Durant have to keep up his superior play to LeBron to be considered better than him?

1 season? 2?

I find it interesting that people use the first season LeBron outplayed Kobe to say “LeBron has been better than Kobe since that point” but with Kevin Durant surpassing LeBron it’s “we can’t say with certainty if KD is better than LeBron at this point”.

Where is the consistency?

You could probably consider him a better player at this point if you wanted to, and stats would suggest it's true. But I'd like to see him win a ring first.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2014, 04:39 PM
You could probably consider him a better player at this point if you wanted to, and stats would suggest it's true. But I'd like to see him win a ring first.

you could have considered LeBron the best player in the NBA by 07-08'. How many people do you think did? I mean, he was statistically the best for sure by that point.

beliges
03-28-2014, 04:57 PM
You could probably consider him a better player at this point if you wanted to, and stats would suggest it's true. But I'd like to see him win a ring first.

Durant has certainly had a better season that Lebron. I dont think there is any denying that. However, without winning a title, people will continue to call Durant and Lebron 1A and 1B. I think if Durant wins a title this season, he will have surpassed Lebron in many people's minds.

jerellh528
03-28-2014, 05:14 PM
Durant has certainly had a better season that Lebron. I dont think there is any denying that. However, without winning a title, people will continue to call Durant and Lebron 1A and 1B. I think if Durant wins a title this season, he will have surpassed Lebron in many people's minds.


Yeah that's what I'm sayin. I need him to win a title first. But, if someone wanted to call him the best right now, it's kinda hard to argue just using stats alone. It's debatable at least. But it takes more than that IMO to consider kd better.

beliges
03-28-2014, 05:19 PM
Yeah that's what I'm sayin. I need him to win a title first. But, if someone wanted to call him the best right now, it's kinda hard to argue just using stats alone. It's debatable at least. But it takes more than that IMO to consider kd better.

Throw stats out the window. He is simply playing better than anyone else right now. Not to mention, he has led his lesser talented team to a much better record in a far superior conference. I do not think the MVP race is close at all to be honest. Durant has clearly been the best player in the league this season. Whether that continues in the near future or not is yet to be determined. But with one superior season, I wouldnt quite rank him ahead of Lebron yet. But rather, I think they are both the two best in the league.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2014, 05:22 PM
Yeah that's what I'm sayin. I need him to win a title first. But, if someone wanted to call him the best right now, it's kinda hard to argue just using stats alone. It's debatable at least. But it takes more than that IMO to consider kd better.

again, would you have agreed to your own statement starting from 07-08' on? LeBron clearly was better statistically than any other player, but I find it hard to believe you would have listened to a debate stating that he was indeed the best player in the game.

jerellh528
03-28-2014, 05:24 PM
Throw stats out the window. He is simply playing better than anyone else right now. Not to mention, he has led his lesser talented team to a much better record in a far superior conference. I do not think the MVP race is close at all to be honest. Durant has clearly been the best player in the league this season. Whether that continues in the near future or not is yet to be determined. But with one superior season, I wouldnt quite rank him ahead of Lebron yet. But rather, I think they are both the two best in the league.


I wouldn't say MUCH better record, but yea I agree with this post.

jerellh528
03-28-2014, 05:29 PM
again, would you have agreed to your own statement starting from 07-08' on? LeBron clearly was better statistically than any other player, but I find it hard to believe you would have listened to a debate stating that he was indeed the best player in the game.

Nope, but if someone said Lebron was better since that time it would've been very hard to argue just based on stats. That's why I said I need to see kd win something first before I consider him better than lbj. Lebron has been basically league tops or around the top statistically since his sophomore season 2004. It wasn't until his first ring where I considered him the undisputed best.