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View Full Version : Do you think Shawn Marion a Hall of Famer?



Sadds The Gr8
03-06-2014, 04:21 AM
Was listening to the BS Report and Zach Lowe says Marion has an interesting case. Never really thought about him in the conversation. I immediately thought "no", but his stats in his prime were impressive, plus he's always been a 2 way player.

Career #s

16 ppg
9 rpg
1.6 stl
1.1 blk
19.1 per
.543 ts%
.511 efg%
110 ortg
.153 ws/48

EDIT: Should also add he's a 4 time All-star, for those who care about that. Also has 2 all NBA 3rd teams.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2014, 04:24 AM
a dude who made a layup at Rucker park in 1989 can make the basketball HOF.

I am disgusted by what makes the bball HOF honestly.

abe_froman
03-06-2014, 04:29 AM
4x all star...i could see it go either way

Ebbs
03-06-2014, 04:33 AM
a dude who made a layup at Rucker park in 1989 can make the basketball HOF.

I am disgusted by what makes the bball HOF honestly.

Really I mean yea the basketball hall is soft but Marion isn't a bad candidate.

Hellcrooner
03-06-2014, 05:17 AM
never played in the finals?
never was better tan the THIRD option in his teams?

the 4 allstars give him some legs.........but thats it.

People often wonders if Tmac or vince carter deserve in............both have better cases than marion IMO.

5ass
03-06-2014, 05:33 AM
never played in the finals?
never was better tan the THIRD option in his teams?

the 4 allstars give him some legs.........but thats it.

People often wonders if Tmac or vince carter deserve in............both have better cases than marion IMO.

He has a ring

Sadds The Gr8
03-06-2014, 06:30 AM
never played in the finals?
never was better tan the THIRD option in his teams?

the 4 allstars give him some legs.........but thats it.

People often wonders if Tmac or vince carter deserve in............both have better cases than marion IMO.
Marion won a ring in 2011...

PraiseJesus
03-06-2014, 06:38 AM
Naa

sunsfan88
03-06-2014, 08:00 AM
never played in the finals?
never was better tan the THIRD option in his teams?

the 4 allstars give him some legs.........but thats it.

People often wonders if Tmac or vince carter deserve in............both have better cases than marion IMO.
He played in the Finals and SHUT DOWN 'Bron-Bron.

Swashcuff
03-06-2014, 08:31 AM
never played in the finals?
never was better tan the THIRD option in his teams?

the 4 allstars give him some legs.........but thats it.

People often wonders if Tmac or vince carter deserve in............both have better cases than marion IMO.

Crooner what in the hell are you smoking? Marion won a ring in 2011 spent virtually his entire career in Phoenix as the number 1 or 2 option on offense hell he was the number one option the year they made it to the WCF and lost to the Mavs. Get off that stuff Crooner it wasn't that long ago.

WadeKobe
03-06-2014, 09:48 AM
Crooner what in the hell are you smoking? Marion won a ring in 2011 spent virtually his entire career in Phoenix as the number 1 or 2 option on offense hell he was the number one option the year they made it to the WCF and lost to the Mavs. Get off that stuff Crooner it wasn't that long ago.

Lol. This.

Marion was quite good and I think some of his impact is lost because we don't have good ways to quantify defensive impact readily available during his prime years.

He is a borderline guy for me.

Snapshot
03-06-2014, 10:14 AM
Impossible...Mitch Richmond isnt even in the HOF and he was wayyyy better than Marion.

Walt
03-06-2014, 10:52 AM
The Crooner guy, Marion won a ring with Dallas in 2011 and was arguably the best defender in those playoffs. Shut down Kobe, shut down Durant when it mattered and also blocked his attempted game winner as time expired in game 4 at OKC, and played a monster part in locking down LeBron James in the Finals.

He also played his best series, which were great, in the WCF and the Finals.


As for the question, had Marion kept up his stats in Dallas, and won the ring, I'd say easily. But he accepted a different role in Dallas which killed his stats, and stats are a big part to making the hall.

I'd say no, but he was maybe the most underrated player from this past decade.

todu82
03-06-2014, 11:46 AM
No, I don't think he'll make it in, had a solid career though.

bleedprple&gold
03-06-2014, 12:10 PM
a dude who made a layup at Rucker park in 1989 can make the basketball HOF.

I am disgusted by what makes the bball HOF honestly.

This. The HOF loses meaning when they put anybody in there. A BIG HELL NO to Marion and I dont think he's close.

Hellcrooner
03-06-2014, 12:16 PM
oh yeah i forgot bout the biggest joke job in the history of the game by the three amigos.

my bad.

still1ballin
03-06-2014, 12:21 PM
oh yeah i forgot bout the biggest joke job in the history of the game by the three amigos.

my bad.


I see what you did there. :)

Chronz
03-06-2014, 12:24 PM
Impossible...Mitch Richmond isnt even in the HOF and he was wayyyy better than Marion.

Only in pretend world where 1 on 1 ability is all that matters

NoahH
03-06-2014, 12:32 PM
No Marion is not close IMO

scissors
03-06-2014, 12:37 PM
Only in pretend world where 1 on 1 ability is all that matters

This. probably

flea
03-06-2014, 12:41 PM
I said yes because I've always appreciated his brand of basketball. He's a lot more valuable than some of the guys headed there or already there - it's just that a lot of his value isn't on a stat sheet. I don't believe in this #1 option crap - as if offense is the only way we evaluate how important a player is to a team.

During his prime, if you put him at either PF or SF he's top 5 in the league (he played a lot of PF during his prime). He could defend 3-4 positions at the highest level, and he was the 2nd best player on a team that won a ring. Hall.

JordansBulls
03-06-2014, 12:44 PM
He has made 4 allstars teams and he will and should make it for single handedly locking up Lebron James in the 2011 finals.

scissors
03-06-2014, 12:55 PM
see below

scissors
03-06-2014, 01:03 PM
If you have insider (I don't). they did a "hall monitor" piece on him 2 seasons ago for what its worth.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8737953/nba-does-shawn-marion-deserve-the-hall-fame

scissors
03-06-2014, 01:19 PM
I found the Keltner list

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in basketball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in basketball? No.

2. Was he the best player on his team? For about 3 years from 01-04 after Kidd left and until Stoudemire's 3rd season.

3. Was he the best player in basketball at his position? No. But he was a top 3-5 SF/PF for a little while

4. Did he have an impact on a number of NBA Finals or Conference Finals? Yes. He was an All-Star player for 2 WCF runs with PHO and was a major part of locking down Lebron in the '11 finals which he won.

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? Yes, he's doing it right now.

6. Is he the very best (eligible) basketball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No.

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? I'm not sure. I would guess not.

8. Do the player’s numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? His HOF probability right now is like 27% so probably not.

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his basic statistics? Yes. He was an incredible perimeter defender and could guard almost any position. It is really a shame that he never made a All-Def team (he should have a handful of seconds at least).

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? It is very possible that this situation will come up eventually.

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? He received votes twice but was never close.

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame? 6, you could argue 7 All-Star-type seasons. He made 4 games. Most people with 5-6 All-Star games are fringe HOFers

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win an NBA title? No.

14. What impact did the player have on basketball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Was his college and/or international career especially noteworthy? The only thing noteworthy about his international career is that he was on the only USA Olympic team with NBA players NOT to win a gold medal.

flea
03-06-2014, 01:30 PM
I think Marion has a better case than Ray Allen, for instance. And I love Ray Allen, he's one of my favorite players ever. It just shows you how much offense colors NBA fans' perception of the game (I don't see this as much in college fans' assessments).

Hellcrooner
03-06-2014, 02:12 PM
I found the Keltner list

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in basketball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in basketball? No.

2. Was he the best player on his team? For about 3 years from 01-04 after Kidd left and until Stoudemire's 3rd season.

3. Was he the best player in basketball at his position? No. But he was a top 3-5 SF/PF for a little while

4. Did he have an impact on a number of NBA Finals or Conference Finals? Yes. He was an All-Star player for 2 WCF runs with PHO and was a major part of locking down Lebron in the '11 finals which he won.

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? Yes, he's doing it right now.

6. Is he the very best (eligible) basketball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No.

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? I'm not sure. I would guess not.

8. Do the player’s numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? His HOF probability right now is like 27% so probably not.

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his basic statistics? Yes. He was an incredible perimeter defender and could guard almost any position. It is really a shame that he never made a All-Def team (he should have a handful of seconds at least).

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? It is very possible that this situation will come up eventually.

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? He received votes twice but was never close.

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame? 6, you could argue 7 All-Star-type seasons. He made 4 games. Most people with 5-6 All-Star games are fringe HOFers

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win an NBA title? No.

14. What impact did the player have on basketball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Was his college and/or international career especially noteworthy? The only thing noteworthy about his international career is that he was on the only USA Olympic team with NBA players NOT to win a gold medal.

there are literaly tenths of HOF players already inducted that dont math 20% of those questions.

scissors
03-06-2014, 03:36 PM
there are literaly tenths of HOF players already inducted that dont math 20% of those questions.

Yeah. The Keltner list is actually for MLB hof and NBA writers have made the above adaptation to basketball HOF. I agree it isn't a great test. But it does help you think about the player's achievements systematically. I don't think the list should be used as a "if the player meets X amount of these criteria" its just a decent way to think about a players qualifications.

The international one was funny to me. I was thinking "I'm pretty sure I remember seeing Marion wear team USA uniform". And if he won a gold medal he would probably be a lock. But they got bronze smh.

DreamShaker
03-06-2014, 05:43 PM
Marion was an awesome player in his prime. My favorite player on those Suns teams. Problem is besides his ring as a role player and his years with the SSOL Suns, nothing stands out. His career has been very good, but not great.

flea
03-06-2014, 05:53 PM
Marion was an awesome player in his prime. My favorite player on those Suns teams. Problem is besides his ring as a role player and his years with the SSOL Suns, nothing stands out. His career has been very good, but not great.

How is the 2nd best player on a championship winning team a role player? Was Pau Gasol a role player?

WadeKobe
03-06-2014, 06:59 PM
How is the 2nd best player on a championship winning team a role player? Was Pau Gasol a role player?

He was not the second best player on that team. Chandler was. Easily.

flea
03-06-2014, 08:19 PM
He was not the second best player on that team. Chandler was. Easily.

I don't want to argue it too much because they were both very big parts. But Marion was everything Tyson was on the defensive end and even better offensively. Plus he had the burden of rebounding like a PF while guarding the best perimeter player. People talk about Dirk being lucky to find Chandler to play next to - I'd argue it's Marion he was lucky to have. He masked Dirk's below average rebounding and Chandler/Marion took turns defending the PFs that Dirk couldn't - like, say, the best player on the planet in the finals.

ThuglifeJ
03-06-2014, 08:22 PM
No.

mavwar53
03-06-2014, 08:48 PM
No way, really like him but he's never at any point been a top 10 player in the league, so if that's the case how can you be a hall of famer.

KingPosey
03-06-2014, 09:10 PM
Only in pretend world where 1 on 1 ability is all that matters

You have not a clue what kind of basketball player he was then chronz.

Chronz
03-06-2014, 10:04 PM
He has made 4 allstars teams and he will and should make it for single handedly locking up Lebron James in the 2011 finals.

Even Mark Cuban wouldn't say he did it alone

Chronz
03-06-2014, 10:06 PM
You have not a clue what kind of basketball player he was then chronz.
Our maybe you don't understand the argument at hand

kobe4thewinbang
03-06-2014, 10:09 PM
Marion has always been a solid player, good on defense, hustles, got some hops. He still does things sometimes that surprise me.

TheMightyHumph
03-06-2014, 10:39 PM
He would certainly get my vote.

BoSox47
03-06-2014, 10:56 PM
No marion should not make the hall of fame at all

Spacolie716
03-06-2014, 11:25 PM
He should be able to get in the HOF with that ridiculous looking jumpshot he has. I'm surprised he could shoot decently with something like that (38.7% from 3 in 02-03 season attempting 4.5 a game)

Kashmir13579
03-07-2014, 12:10 AM
If i could re-do the HOF, he wouldn't make it.. But i think with the way it has been constructed, he deserves in... He was always a fun player to watch for me... That awkward little scoop baby-hook around the rim was deadly in his prime years..

Kaner
03-07-2014, 12:17 AM
With how much flak the hall gets I wouldn't be surprised(hopeful) if they started to up the standards for future members. But his resume is deserving compared to the standards up to this point

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Not a single guy above him in WS that isn't in :shrug: