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nickdymez
03-04-2014, 06:02 PM
The Lakers build another team from scratch around him and he leads them to 3 more finals and two more rings? Thats probably the only way he can move up the list in my opinion. Pretty much 3 entirely different constructed teams that won with Kobe as the main piece or second fiddle. Thoughts

jerellh528
03-04-2014, 06:06 PM
There's some pretty good discussion about that here:
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?853628-Kobe-s-legacy

flea
03-04-2014, 06:09 PM
Yeah but Ramon Sessions can also move up the list if he leads a team to 3 Finals and 2 wins. Not really sure what ground we're breaking here.

RateSports
03-04-2014, 06:09 PM
The Lakers build another team from scratch around him and he leads them to 3 more finals and two more rings? Thats probably the only way he can move up the list in my opinion. Pretty much 3 entirely different constructed teams that won with Kobe as the main piece or second fiddle. Thoughts

He would be the undisputed GOAT.

But this isn't even remotely realistic.

ManRam
03-04-2014, 06:15 PM
I mean, he absolutely would move up if that happened. He'd move up a lot. Winning one more as "the guy", especially if he did it over KD or LeBron would be pretty big too. He doesn't need 3 trips and 2 wins to make an impact on his legacy.

Is that something that's possible within the realm of reality? IDK. I'm inclined to say "no". Turning that roster into a contender again in one off season AND getting top-5 play from him after missing an entire season and being 36 seems unlikely. I think for true contending to happen there needs to be another great player there...and perhaps that means less of him "leading" them to success.

Hawkeye15
03-04-2014, 06:15 PM
this was discussed in the thread linked above.

Hulk6
03-04-2014, 06:17 PM
You cant go higher if youre already at the top

abe_froman
03-04-2014, 06:18 PM
The Lakers build another team from scratch around him and he leads them to 3 more finals and two more rings? Thats probably the only way he can move up the list in my opinion. Pretty much 3 entirely different constructed teams that won with Kobe as the main piece or second fiddle. Thoughts
depends on where you have him ,i think on most lists he would. he still wouldnt have the stat domination to overtake say mj, but that amount of winning and being that good for that long cant be ignored

Chronz
03-04-2014, 06:20 PM
He technically could, because his greatest strength (longevity) continues to grow stronger, but dude is done winning and producing IMO. Dirk and Duncan can still move up for me, if Duncan has one more Finals run or at least a dominant playoff showing, Im ready to accept his resume over Shaq/Wilt for me and he enters the KAJ discussion.

LAKobeBryant
03-04-2014, 06:28 PM
i think the nba world just wants to see lebron vs kobe in the finals even though kobe is at the end of his career and lebrons still at his peak.

JordansBulls
03-04-2014, 06:32 PM
i think the nba world just wants to see lebron vs kobe in the finals even though kobe is at the end of his career and lebrons still at his peak.

By 2011 if it didn't happen it was done with. It had to happen between 2009 to 2011 for it to be even hyped.

nickdymez
03-04-2014, 06:35 PM
this was discussed in the thread linked above.

I was supposed to dig through that thread and find where this particular question was addressed?

ManRam
03-04-2014, 06:52 PM
Yeah. Longevity is the name of the game for Kobe, and regardless of how you feel about the following argument, it does resonate with many.

http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/pd/kobe-ringsssss-t-shirt/pid-832281/pgid-1496757?ref=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FvJQ2OphdOm


6 is, for many reasons, a big number. Jump from 5 to 6, or even 7, and that's a big deal to many.

jerellh528
03-04-2014, 06:54 PM
Yeah. Longevity is the name of the game for Kobe, and regardless of how you feel about the following argument, it does resonate with many.

http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/pd/kobe-ringsssss-t-shirt/pid-832281/pgid-1496757?ref=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FvJQ2OphdOm


6 is, for many reasons, a big number. Jump from 5 to 6, or even 7, and that's a big deal to many.

I'm about to purchase that black one and sport it to the gym lol

EL_MACHETE
03-04-2014, 07:13 PM
i think the nba world just wants to see lebron vs kobe in the finals even though kobe is at the end of his career and lebrons still at his peak.

If Kobe ever left The Lakers because he wanted to chase rings then it would be nice if he came to Okc

archdevil84
03-04-2014, 07:19 PM
Yeah but Ramon Sessions can also move up the list if he leads a team to 3 Finals and 2 wins. Not really sure what ground we're breaking here.

Ramon sessions is the GOAT

nickdymez
03-04-2014, 07:21 PM
Ramon sessions is the GOAT

Thread derailed by Heat fans again.. smh

Baller1
03-04-2014, 07:23 PM
Of course, but that's not gonna happen.

Jamiecballer
03-04-2014, 07:28 PM
not unless he transformed his game in the process. if he was the same Kobe then no.

nickdymez
03-04-2014, 07:31 PM
not unless he transformed his game in the process. if he was the same Kobe then no.

You dont like his game? Even though he's proven to be a winner playing his style?

DreamShaker
03-04-2014, 07:48 PM
If that happened, it would be possibly the most improbable thing in NBA history with his age, health, and the state of the Lakers. So, absolutely. But I would be 100% shocked if anything close to that happened.I do hope he comes back and gives us at least a few more vintage Kobe years.

Jamiecballer
03-04-2014, 07:50 PM
You dont like his game? Even though he's proven to be a winner playing his style?

he's entertaining, and he's had plenty of success. but my evaluation of Kobe was made a long time ago. he won't go up or down no matter what happens from here. unless he becomes an even more efficient version of himself. but at his age it's very unlikely.

b@llhog24
03-04-2014, 08:05 PM
I guess. It'd just move him out of the "debatable" sector with guys like Magic and Bird for me.

beliges
03-04-2014, 08:18 PM
Dont know how much higher he can go up. Certainly he will be breaking a few more records and going higher and higher in the all time assists. But vast majority of all consider him top 10, many already consider him top 5. Doubt he will ever get that No. 1 spot but if your within the top 5 already, its hard to really move up. But then again, there is a small minority that doesnt even have him in the top 10.

NBA_Starter
03-04-2014, 09:45 PM
He could but I am not sure he has enough time left to do all of that.

NoahH
03-04-2014, 09:54 PM
IN SHORT... Yes Kobe could move up the list if he won 2 of 3 finals in the next few years. BUT...

There's no way that's happening so we don't even need to debate that. Lakers will not be able to rebuild into a championship team for 2014-2015. At the earliest it will be 2015-2016, then say best case scenario it goes like this:

15-16 - Finals Loss
16-17 - Champ
17-18 - Champ

in which case in the 2018 finals kobe will be 39, turning 40 in August? I don't see that happening. I am not counting out Kobe but leading a team to the finals from the age of 36-39 with his body breaking down does not seem plausible. If all the pieces come together and the Lakers look like this ... ->

PG Exum
SG Kobe
SF filler or if they're lucky Melo
PF K Love
C filler

THEN maybe they could win 2 of 3 but Kobe won't LEAD that team.

Hellcrooner
03-04-2014, 09:56 PM
for the sake of discussing.

he woudl have to be the FIRST MAN on those acomplisment.

htat means, no melo, no love, no lebron, no durant.


what can lakers do to build a roster with him as main man?

Lowry + Deng, sign back pau for cheap and look out on a great center or Pf in the draft.

fie dantoni and hire a real coach.

Lowry, Kobe, Deng, Promising rookie, Pau.

I dont think thats winning a ring.....
nor getting to the finals.


or Rookie SF wait a year sign back pau for cheap and then go Rondo and marc g


Rondo, Kobe, Promising sophomore, Pau, Marc.

that isnt cutting the crap either

TylerSL
03-04-2014, 10:03 PM
who knows what can happen for the remainder of his career but IMO Kobe's place in history is pretty much already set in stone. He is a clear top 10 player ever but I cannot really see him moving up higher than he already is. This is my top 10 (the discussion of who should go where will be saved for another thread)

1.MJ
2.Magic
3.Kareem
4.Wilt
5.Duncan
6.Hakeem
7.Shaq
8.Kobe
9.Bird
10.Oscar

It will be very difficult for Kobe to move above Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan (who are all very close IMO). It looks especially bleak right now considering he has barely played in the last year. Longevity is what has made him so special and sets him apart from people below and even above him but he will be 36 when we see him play again coming off back to back season ending injuries. We don't even know what the Lakers will even look like next year. Will anybody be willing to join the Lakers in Free Agency after this nightmare season and Kobe's ability to stay on the court in question? I am not implying that Kobe is "done" but as of 2014 with the injuries mounting up, and the uncertainty of his teams future I'm inclined to believe Kobe is going to stay where he is at.

However Kobe could surprise us all and come back next year and the Lakers could land guys like Melo/Love in free agency and compete again. If that happened and Kobe returned to all star form and continue his longevity to the age of 38 or 39 then win or lose he could easily pass Shaq and Hakeem, and probably even Duncan.

I think that would be best case scenario for Kobe though but right now given the fact that he has barely played in a year and the Lakers future in question we have to assume his place in history is already pretty much set, which for me, is number 8 all time.

Tony_Starks
03-04-2014, 10:29 PM
Honestly for the ones that dare to question is he even top 10, there's literally nothing that guy can do. They're lost. Their mind is made up.

To reasonable, objective hoop fans if he can lead another team to a ring at this age?....after these injuries and this many deep playoff runs?..... Easily top 5. Just like Duncan should be if he can pull it off...

Tony_Starks
03-04-2014, 10:36 PM
who knows what can happen for the remainder of his career but IMO Kobe's place in history is pretty much already set in stone. He is a clear top 10 player ever but I cannot really see him moving up higher than he already is. This is my top 10 (the discussion of who should go where will be saved for another thread)

1.MJ
2.Magic
3.Kareem
4.Wilt
5.Duncan
6.Hakeem
7.Shaq
8.Kobe
9.Bird
10.Oscar

It will be very difficult for Kobe to move above Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan (who are all very close IMO). It looks especially bleak right now considering he has barely played in the last year. Longevity is what has made him so special and sets him apart from people below and even above him but he will be 36 when we see him play again coming off back to back season ending injuries. We don't even know what the Lakers will even look like next year. Will anybody be willing to join the Lakers in Free Agency after this nightmare season and Kobe's ability to stay on the court in question? I am not implying that Kobe is "done" but as of 2014 with the injuries mounting up, and the uncertainty of his teams future I'm inclined to believe Kobe is going to stay where he is at.

However Kobe could surprise us all and come back next year and the Lakers could land guys like Melo/Love in free agency and compete again. If that happened and Kobe returned to all star form and continue his longevity to the age of 38 or 39 then win or lose he could easily pass Shaq and Hakeem, and probably even Duncan.

I think that would be best case scenario for Kobe though but right now given the fact that he has barely played in a year and the Lakers future in question we have to assume his place in history is already pretty much set, which for me, is number 8 all time.

Are you a Heat fan? If so the fact that you respect the game enough not to put Lebron in the top 10 already is pretty cool and unbiased....

TylerSL
03-04-2014, 10:47 PM
Are you a Heat fan? If so the fact that you respect the game enough not to put Lebron in the top 10 already is pretty cool and unbiased....

I am infact a Heat fan and have been since 2004. I believe Lebron to be borderline top 15 as of right now. If he gets his 5th MVP this season (in 6 years no less) and wins a 3rd straight championship and Finals MVP then I think he should draw some serious consideration at 10, maybe even 9. 4 trips to the finals and 2 rings is impressive, but alot of greats have 2 rings. Winning a 3rd straight as the clear #1 is something only a handful of guys have done. Lebron has a chance to accomplish this but we cannot crown him yet.

But he is only starting to cement his legacy. Obviously I'm rooting for the guy but to place him in the top 10 now is not fair to others who have played the entirety of their career, nor is it fair to Lebron himself.

Tony_Starks
03-04-2014, 11:03 PM
I am infact a Heat fan and have been since 2004. I believe Lebron to be borderline top 15 as of right now. If he gets his 5th MVP this season (in 6 years no less) and wins a 3rd straight championship and Finals MVP then I think he should draw some serious consideration at 10, maybe even 9. 4 trips to the finals and 2 rings is impressive, but alot of greats have 2 rings. Winning a 3rd straight as the clear #1 is something only a handful of guys have done. Lebron has a chance to accomplish this but we cannot crown him yet.

But he is only starting to cement his legacy. Obviously I'm rooting for the guy but to place him in the top 10 now is not fair to others who have played the entirety of their career, nor is it fair to Lebron himself.

Agree 100%. He three peats, with four straight Finals? He's in a entirely different conversation.

Otherwise my judgement is reserved. But he has plenty of time....

KnicksorBust
03-04-2014, 11:13 PM
Yeah but Ramon Sessions can also move up the list if he leads a team to 3 Finals and 2 wins. Not really sure what ground we're breaking here.

This actually made me :laugh:

Ramon Sessions was a great reference there. Not sure if you could have picked a funnier random player. Maybe Bismack Biyombo...

KnicksorBust
03-04-2014, 11:17 PM
The Lakers build another team from scratch around him and he leads them to 3 more finals and two more rings? Thats probably the only way he can move up the list in my opinion. Pretty much 3 entirely different constructed teams that won with Kobe as the main piece or second fiddle. Thoughts

If he leads them to 1 more ring I would seriously consider putting him above Magic - Kareem. 2 more and he is neck and neck with Jordan.

bucketss
03-04-2014, 11:47 PM
kobe is done imo, if he even makes the finals as the "man" i'll shut up and bow to his greatness. hes done

bucketss
03-04-2014, 11:49 PM
I am infact a Heat fan and have been since 2004. I believe Lebron to be borderline top 15 as of right now. If he gets his 5th MVP this season (in 6 years no less) and wins a 3rd straight championship and Finals MVP then I think he should draw some serious consideration at 10, maybe even 9. 4 trips to the finals and 2 rings is impressive, but alot of greats have 2 rings. Winning a 3rd straight as the clear #1 is something only a handful of guys have done. Lebron has a chance to accomplish this but we cannot crown him yet.

But he is only starting to cement his legacy. Obviously I'm rooting for the guy but to place him in the top 10 now is not fair to others who have played the entirety of their career, nor is it fair to Lebron himself.

hes definitely in the top 15, borderline ? i disagree i consider him top ten already.

mngopher35
03-05-2014, 01:35 AM
Yes. If he leads the lakers to one more title he would enter the next tier of players for me (Shaq, Tim, Hakeem). I just don't see him reaching the level where he can lead a championship team again, but we will see. I won't count him out completely though, he is still Kobe.

beliges
03-05-2014, 01:45 AM
Yes. If he leads the lakers to one more title he would enter the next tier of players for me (Shaq, Tim, Hakeem). I just don't see him reaching the level where he can lead a championship team again, but we will see. I won't count him out completely though, he is still Kobe.

Your logic makes no sense. Why would he need to win another title to reach the "next tier of players" when he already has more titles than each of those "next tier players"? LOL. Peoples' post on here never ceases to amaze me.

sixer04fan
03-05-2014, 02:13 AM
What a ridiculous question. But yes. Obviously if that happened he'd be bumped further up the all time list.

mngopher35
03-05-2014, 02:14 AM
Your logic makes no sense. Why would he need to win another title to reach the "next tier of players" when he already has more titles than each of those "next tier players"? LOL. Peoples' post on here never ceases to amaze me.

Because I don't base a player solely on titles (Pippen isn't better than those players either). I know that you like to pick and choose players to just count rings for, but it is not my style. All of the players I mentioned had better peaks/primes and were the anchor to their teams defenses (less time for Shaq as an anchor, but his pure dominance was better). Shaq and Duncan were the best players on more championship teams as well.

numba1CHANGsta
03-05-2014, 02:24 AM
If Kobe wins 2 more rings then he should be in discussion for top 5 all time. I'd probably rank him 4th behind MJ, Kareem, Russell

Bostonjorge
03-05-2014, 02:42 AM
When kobe wins 2 more rings especially back to back then he will past Jordan or at least be his equal. Can't think of any other player that's in this position.

PowerHouse
03-05-2014, 02:43 AM
Yeah but Ramon Sessions can also move up the list if he leads a team to 3 Finals and 2 wins. Not really sure what ground we're breaking here.

LMAO. Exactly. Can we get some forum topics that build brain cells rather than kill them please?