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View Full Version : Has Durant surpassed Tracy McGrady?



FlashBolt
03-04-2014, 02:36 PM
A couple of my co-workers seem to think Tracy McGrady was still better but in recent events, do you think Kevin Durant has established himself over Tracy? +James was never this good when he was 25. Will Durant be a top 10 player? +GOAT to never win a ring?

ManRam
03-04-2014, 02:42 PM
This season compares wonderfully to T-Mac's 2003 season. I'd say it's better. Last year perhaps as well.


I love T-Mac, probably my favorite player of my lifetime, but I think KD has shown he's a tad better. If he hasn't shown that by now, it's inevitable. An MVP, a championship, or just playing well after the age of 30 and KD skyrockets past T-Mac. T-Mac's peak was tremendous, but it was also VERY brief. KD has been historic in his own right this season. This two year stretch is undoubtedly better than T-Mac's best two year stretch.

abe_froman
03-04-2014, 02:42 PM
i dont like ranking players until they hit their decline/get a better sense of career.but right now? probably no,t-mac has the longevity over kd,but he'll pass tmac no doubt.
the other questions-have no idea,its way,way to early in his career

Chronz
03-04-2014, 02:48 PM
Yeah he has, I still think Tmac had it harder (era pre lax hand checking but post zones) and that certain teams could use him more than KD, but I think those kind of teams aren't as conducive to winning

Longevity matters but not enough in this debate imo

ThuglifeJ
03-04-2014, 03:22 PM
Durant can't do some of the things Tmac could do.. KD will have better career tho

sunsfan88
03-04-2014, 03:24 PM
Durant is a better 2 way player (offense & defense) and he rebounds better too.

Hawkeye15
03-04-2014, 03:48 PM
He has, though McGrady in the early part of the 2000's was so awesome.

FlashBolt
03-04-2014, 03:52 PM
Durant can't do some of the things Tmac could do.. KD will have better career tho

Same could be said for any player in NBA history. Jordan couldn't do what KD could do just like KD can't do what Jordan could do. But IMO, I think Durant will end up being a top 10 player ever. Undoubtedly the greatest scorer and if he never wins a ring, he'll be the greatest to never do so.

mjt20mik
03-04-2014, 03:59 PM
Durant is a better 2 way player (offense & defense) and he rebounds better too.

Tmac defense is severely underrated. I'd say right now, Tmac in his prime was a better player. But KD is still young.

hotdalton18
03-04-2014, 04:02 PM
A couple of my co-workers seem to think Tracy McGrady was still better but in recent events, do you think Kevin Durant has established himself over Tracy? +James was never this good when he was 25. Will Durant be a top 10 player? +GOAT to never win a ring?






Lmao


James was never this good at 25?


Wrong

He never had good players around him

He was all around better then Durant


LeBron is the most complete player of all time

ManRam
03-04-2014, 04:08 PM
Same could be said for any player in NBA history. Jordan couldn't do what KD could do just like KD can't do what Jordan could do. But IMO, I think Durant will end up being a top 10 player ever. Undoubtedly the greatest scorer and if he never wins a ring, he'll be the greatest to never do so.

Yeah. There are definitely also things KD can do that T-Mac couldn't. I didn't quite get that comment.

I agree with the rest. I think he's got a great shot, assuming he can sustain this for his prime, to go down as the greatest scoring (wing?) player ever. The mix of volume and efficiency is just mind-boggling.

FlashBolt
03-04-2014, 04:09 PM
Lmao


James was never this good at 25?


Wrong

He never had good players around him

He was all around better then Durant


LeBron is the most complete player of all time

Since when did all around mean better? It just means you're a better all around player. LeBron at 25 never had a season like Durant is having right now. I don't know if you're serious.

KnicksorBust
03-04-2014, 04:15 PM
I would say yes but hopefully this thread is more about complimenting how quickly Durant is shooting himself up the all-time rankings instead of downgrading T-Mac's legacy. Would love to know what Durant could do with someone like Yao Ming as his sidekick instead of Russell Westbrook...

BenFrank
03-04-2014, 04:19 PM
PSD be quick to judge guys by how they do in the playoff, well last time I checked KD has been past the 1st round on numerous occasions already.. I would have to say he's better

Chronz
03-04-2014, 04:20 PM
I would say yes but hopefully this thread is more about complimenting how quickly Durant is shooting himself up the all-time rankings instead of downgrading T-Mac's legacy. Would love to know what Durant could do with someone like Yao Ming as his sidekick instead of Russell Westbrook...

I would have loved seeing Tmac with Yao in their primes too.

JordansBulls
03-04-2014, 04:21 PM
PSD be quick to judge guys by how they do in the playoff, well last time I checked KD has been past the 1st round on numerous occasions already.. I would have to say he's better

bad logic here, but I agree Durant is better.

mavwar53
03-04-2014, 04:26 PM
Passed him last year, halfway through the season.

I don't understand the ogling over T-Mac, almost always we base greatness on winning, can someone remind me how many playoff series T-Mac won? I see Kevin Love turning into a T-Mac, eventually his team will make the playoffs but they won't get anywhere.

Great numbers don't equal greatness.

TheNumber37
03-04-2014, 04:31 PM
This season yes.

KD is a better shooter than Tmac and his team is number 1 in the west.. Tmac has never taken his team that high

beyourself
03-04-2014, 04:32 PM
Durant is about to become the first player to average 30 ppg on 50% shooting since Jordan. T-Mac is not in his league.

ManRam
03-04-2014, 04:41 PM
Passed him last year, halfway through the season.

I don't understand the ogling over T-Mac, almost always we base greatness on winning, can someone remind me how many playoff series T-Mac won? I see Kevin Love turning into a T-Mac, eventually his team will make the playoffs but they won't get anywhere.

Great numbers don't equal greatness.

T-Mac's prime came in Orlando. I will reverse the questioning back to you: you do realize how spectacularly ****** those teams were? And how he'd log huge minutes, diving on the court, taking foul after foul, for teams with no shot at the playoffs? I genuinely think a lot of his health issues later in his career were because of how hard he pushed it on those bad Orlando teams.


Maybe deserves some flack later with Houston, but in his prime he was just stuck on ****** teams. It's no different than if Kobe spent his 4-5 best years on LAL teams post-Shaq and pre-Gasol. There's sometimes nothing a great player can do when you're playing with scrubs :shrug:

beyourself
03-04-2014, 04:44 PM
T-Mac is both underrated and overrated. He's overrated by those who think he was more than a flash in the pan, but he's underrated by those who think he wasn't really freaking awesome for a period of time.

Kashmir13579
03-04-2014, 04:44 PM
I think T-Mac still had a better peak year.

AIverson
03-04-2014, 05:32 PM
Durante is easily better, but man was tmac awesome in Orlando. That guy had the prettiest game you will ever see. His skillset was of the chart.

MonroeFAN
03-04-2014, 05:43 PM
I don't think it's very close, tbh. Durant > Tmac.

SteveNash
03-04-2014, 05:47 PM
Durant was better career wise the second he got out of the first round. In peak form McGrady is still better. Durant is far behind James at 25 and will never go down as the GOAT.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-04-2014, 05:49 PM
T-Mac's prime came in Orlando. I will reverse the questioning back to you: you do realize how spectacularly ****** those teams were? And how he'd log huge minutes, diving on the court, taking foul after foul, for teams with no shot at the playoffs? I genuinely think a lot of his health issues later in his career were because of how hard he pushed it on those bad Orlando teams.


Maybe deserves some flack later with Houston, but in his prime he was just stuck on ****** teams. It's no different than if Kobe spent his 4-5 best years on LAL teams post-Shaq and pre-Gasol. There's sometimes nothing a great player can do when you're playing with scrubs :shrug:

But Tmac was also playing a majority of his schedule against crap teams while Durant does not. And neither did Kobe. Those horrible Laker teams with Kobe in his prime would have been 4 or 5 seeds in the east. If we are bringing context into play, the fact that he obtained his prime numbers playing in a watered down conference should also be considered.

Swashcuff
03-04-2014, 09:21 PM
A couple of my co-workers seem to think Tracy McGrady was still better but in recent events, do you think Kevin Durant has established himself over Tracy? +James was never this good when he was 25. Will Durant be a top 10 player? +GOAT to never win a ring?

Basic

Pts Reb Asts Stl Blk
Kevin Durant 31.6 7.7 5.6 1.5 0.8
LeBron James 29.7 7.3 8.6 1.6 1.0

Advanced

PER TS% eFG% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% ORtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
Kevin Durant 30.4 0.636 0.560 11.3 26.9 1.9 1.6 123 11.0 3.5 14.5 0.308
LeBron James 31.1 0.604 0.545 11.1 41.8 2.2 2.0 121 13.3 5.2 18.5 0.299

RAPM and Simple Rating

RAPM SRtg
Kevin Durant 3.9 16.2
LeBron James 11.9 19.7

Statistical this is just how they both compare at the age of 25. Your statement about LeBron not having a season as good as this is simply ignorant. When you consider how good LeBron was defensively (better than improved KD this year) its even more ignorant.

Swashcuff
03-04-2014, 09:28 PM
But Tmac was also playing a majority of his schedule against crap teams while Durant does not. And neither did Kobe. Those horrible Laker teams with Kobe in his prime would have been 4 or 5 seeds in the east. If we are bringing context into play, the fact that he obtained his prime numbers playing in a watered down conference should also be considered.

Context actually isn't what conference they played in but rather how they played against respective conferences/teams. For his career however T-Mac played better against the East than the West. Same in his peak season.

eibbor
03-04-2014, 09:34 PM
I hate it that TMac was killed by injuries. I hate it worse that he and Vince couldn't have figured it out.

As far as the question... Yes, KD has absolutely surpassed TMac. This shouldn't even be a question. The answer is as obvious as, "Do we breath air?"

kobe4thewinbang
03-04-2014, 11:04 PM
KD is obviously a better player. T-Mac used to have some hops, but he also took a lot of bad shots.

SeoulBeatz
03-04-2014, 11:38 PM
KD is obviously a better player. T-Mac used to have some hops, but he also took a lot of bad shots.

Same shot selection as kobe :shrug:

IKnowHoops
03-05-2014, 02:51 AM
Same could be said for any player in NBA history. Jordan couldn't do what KD could do just like KD can't do what Jordan could do. But IMO, I think Durant will end up being a top 10 player ever. Undoubtedly the greatest scorer and if he never wins a ring, he'll be the greatest to never do so.

I disagree. He isn't a better scorer than Jordan, and I don't think he ever will be.

rhino17
03-05-2014, 03:04 AM
I'm not sure durant will ever have the vision and insane passing ability that tmac had, but he has surpassed him in everything else by a lot

raiderposting
03-05-2014, 03:17 AM
I still won't forget that spurs game. I watched that **** live. Hated both teams but I was jumping around like my team won the finals.

Baller1
03-05-2014, 03:27 AM
I still won't forget that spurs game. I watched that **** live. Hated both teams but I was jumping around like my team won the finals.

Best 30 seconds of basketball anyone will ever see.

Baller1
03-05-2014, 03:29 AM
I disagree. He isn't a better scorer than Jordan, and I don't think he ever will be.

It's very close. Jordan would obviously get the nod right now, but KD passing him is a very realistic happening.

b@llhog24
03-05-2014, 03:54 AM
I guess so. If he hasn't he'll do it for sure by the end of the season.

IKnowHoops
03-05-2014, 06:18 AM
A couple of my co-workers seem to think Tracy McGrady was still better but in recent events, do you think Kevin Durant has established himself over Tracy? +James was never this good when he was 25. Will Durant be a top 10 player? +GOAT to never win a ring?

Ridiculous. Lebron's PER was a 31.1 compared to Durants 30.64 right now. Lebron was a much better defender and that isn't close. I'd take Lebron all day every day age for age easily. And like I said KD is on my all time starting 5.

PG Lebron
SG Mike
SF Durant
PF DRob
C Shaq

We beat any team.

DreamShaker
03-05-2014, 08:15 AM
Yes. But T-Mac was so special, and deserves more credit than he gets. How he carried the Rockets to that 22 game win streak was amazing. People talk about Orlando T-Mac, but he was huge for the Rockets when healthy. He just broke down too soon.

IKnowHoops
03-05-2014, 12:37 PM
The fact that this is an ongoing debate and that a thread never gets made about Durant vs Kobe because everyone knows Durant is better rather easily, tells you how good TMac was.

IKnowHoops
03-05-2014, 12:41 PM
It's very close. Jordan would obviously get the nod right now, but KD passing him is a very realistic happening.

Not to derail the thread, but its much more realistic that Lebron surpasses Jordan as the best player ever than Durant surpassing Jordan as the best scorer ever. Gonna make a thread and poll about that.

JasonJohnHorn
03-05-2014, 01:22 PM
I would have ranked KD ahead of McGrady before this season even started.


McGrady was a great and rare talent. I think his attitude and injuries prevented him from being as great as he could have been, but he was still amazing.

That said, his league-leading scoring averages came on teams that simply were not good. When people were playing McGrady's Magic, they didn't have that game circled on the calender. With the Thunder, teams scout that team to prepare for the match up. They circle those games. Those are statement games. Those are games where other teams use them as a measuring stick. They were the conference champs and have the best record in the West. Defenses prepare for teams like that, and KD STILL posted 40+ points in 1/6 games. And they win.

31.7 points one .639 TS for a team that is likely going to win 60 games (or at least fall between 55-60 wins) is FAR more impressive than 32.1 points on .564 TS for a team that only won 42 games.

Their steals, blocks and assists are pretty much even, KD is clearly the superior rebounder, the fouls are about even, but McGrday, in the 2003 season, had few turnovers.


I say comparing KD's year to the 2003 McGrady KD wins out pretty easily. I'll take a couple extra rebounds and a better shooting percentage in exchange for a turnover any day of the week. In terms of their careers, KD is clear ahead, especially looking at post season success.

It is one thing to score 30+ on a lottery team. It is another thing entirely to score it on a contender.

NBA_Starter
03-05-2014, 09:27 PM
Yes, he probably passed him two years ago.

sunsfan88
03-06-2014, 02:24 AM
Tmac defense is severely underrated. I'd say right now, Tmac in his prime was a better player. But KD is still young.

T-Mac's d was underrated but Durant at this age is already a way better defender than T-Mac was ever in his career.

alexander_37
03-06-2014, 05:37 AM
T-Mac's d was underrated but Durant at this age is already a way better defender than T-Mac was ever in his career.

Simply not true.

Chronz
03-06-2014, 12:27 PM
Simply not true.

Agreed but for the most part, he saved his D for the playoffs.

IKnowHoops
03-06-2014, 12:42 PM
Agreed but for the most part, he saved his D for the playoffs.

Goodness that sig of Blake is just dirty. With his skill set and ability there is absolutely no reason for him not to be the 3rd best player in the game challenging for numero uno. He just shook a 2 guard it looks like then pulled a magic. With a good offseason, dang next year he may leapfrog someone.