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View Full Version : Should the Raptors retire Carter's number 15?



Jamiecballer
03-03-2014, 08:47 PM
Obviously inspired by thread about Zydrunas. Is there a case for retiring Carter's number 15 Raptor jersey? despite the bad ending didn't he do as much or more for the Raptors franchise as Ilgauskas did?

It's been debated ad nauseam in the Raptors forum, wanted an unbiased take on this.

abe_froman
03-03-2014, 08:49 PM
of course,he's like the greatest player in franchise history

jaydubb
03-03-2014, 09:03 PM
Greatest dunker ever..

Also greatest rapptor player ever, yes retire his number Toronto.

And put #15 up next to every rim in the NBA to remind every future dunker that he's #1

dalton749
03-03-2014, 09:09 PM
im not sure they can unless its after amir leaves
maybe a dual retired number?
best raptor ever, mixed with one of everyones favourite raptors ever, share the number together kind of thing maybe

Sadds The Gr8
03-03-2014, 09:10 PM
Nah

PhillyFaninLA
03-03-2014, 09:21 PM
If there was no youtube and not sportscenter guys like Carter would never be remembered.

He was good and one of the great shows that I've seen in basketball but he was not special. Only the truly elite should have there number retired, especially the first guy for an organization (I apologize if the Raptors have one but I'm unaware).

TheNumber37
03-03-2014, 09:23 PM
Maybe. He's probably their greatest player ever.
And he might get into the HOF as a Dunker alone...
If he's in the HOF his number should be retired.

BHF
03-03-2014, 09:52 PM
Carter gave up on the team refused to dunk and play hard faked injury's and intentionally tipped off a play during the final minute of the Raptors vs Sonics game. With that being said **** NO Raptors should not retire his number.

CityofChaos
03-03-2014, 09:54 PM
Chris Bosh deserves his # to be retired in Toronto over VC

eibbor
03-03-2014, 10:05 PM
Umm, no. Play hard every game or **** you...

ThuglifeJ
03-03-2014, 10:08 PM
Greatest dunker ever..

Also greatest rapptor player ever, yes retire his number Toronto.

And put #15 up next to every rim in the NBA to remind every future dunker that he's #1

Hahahahaha

love it.


and yes to OP

Jamiecballer
03-03-2014, 10:14 PM
im not sure they can unless its after amir leaves
maybe a dual retired number?
best raptor ever, mixed with one of everyones favourite raptors ever, share the number together kind of thing maybe
that's a little.... umm.... queer? is that an okay word? i really don't know. lame? you get the idea. i can just see the 2 of them holding hands as their jersey is raised to the rafters lol.

deaner
03-03-2014, 10:17 PM
Chris Bosh deserves his # to be retired in Toronto over VC

Ewe.

ChickenSouvlaki
03-03-2014, 10:17 PM
Yes he should. He literally made history because of the way he dunks the basketball.

eibbor
03-03-2014, 10:23 PM
Yes he should. He literally made history because of the way he dunks the basketball.

Everybody that sucks, but can dunk well, should have a place somewhere.

ChickenSouvlaki
03-03-2014, 10:27 PM
Everybody that sucks, but can dunk well, should have a place somewhere.

Wow I never knew a guy who could consistently score around 25ppg in the NBA sucked.

eibbor
03-03-2014, 10:29 PM
Wow I never knew a guy who could consistently score around 25ppg in the NBA sucked.

If you think that's what he did consistently, you need your tv taken away.

lol, please
03-03-2014, 10:37 PM
Obviously inspired by thread about Zydrunas. Is there a case for retiring Carter's number 15 Raptor jersey? despite the bad ending didn't he do as much or more for the Raptors franchise as Ilgauskas did?

It's been debated ad nauseam in the Raptors forum, wanted an unbiased take on this.absolutely. Without question.

ThuglifeJ
03-03-2014, 10:37 PM
I can't believe people still spew the same phrases in every Carter thread to this day! "he stopped dunking!" (okay he wanted to be known as more than just a dunker/highlight reel) "He quit on the team!" (the GM of the time actually admits Carter came to him asking for a fresh start, to no be traded)

I'm not making it out that everything he did was okay..some things were in fact immature, I believe his emotions got the better of him...but seriously he's 37 years old now, he's shown immense amounts of maturity from the time he left Toronto.. I mean how many ex-superstars are able to play into their late 30s once their athleticism declines and even come off the bench without complaining.

He's in the top 30 all time-scoring list, and top 8 in 3s. Career in Toronto of 25/5/4, Career of 20/5/4..

ThuglifeJ
03-03-2014, 10:40 PM
If you think that's what he did consistently, you need your tv taken away.

Would you say you're more salty or bitter?

JasonJohnHorn
03-03-2014, 10:57 PM
Umm, no. Play hard every game or **** you...


This.

He simply spoiled his legacy. I think they will do it eventually, but I don't care to see it. He did some amazing things there, yes, but he flushed it all down the toilet.

ghettosean
03-03-2014, 11:21 PM
Umm, no. Play hard every game or **** you...


This.

He simply spoiled his legacy. I think they will do it eventually, but I don't care to see it. He did some amazing things there, yes, but he flushed it all down the toilet. +1

ghettosean
03-03-2014, 11:24 PM
Carter gave up on the team refused to dunk and play hard faked injury's and intentionally tipped off a play during the final minute of the Raptors vs Sonics game. With that being said **** NO Raptors should not retire his number.

This is also all 100% true

ghettosean
03-03-2014, 11:30 PM
To add my own thoughts Vince was here 6 years hardly long enough to consider retiring his jersey. Aside from him litterly pissing on all Toronto fans before he left the city in a hissy fit he goes on NATIONAL television saying he never tried his hardest while playing for us. That's setting the bar really low for retiring a number in T.O

Jamiecballer
03-04-2014, 12:07 AM
To add my own thoughts Vince was here 6 years hardly long enough to consider retiring his jersey. Aside from him litterly pissing on all Toronto fans before he left the city in a hissy fit he goes on NATIONAL television saying he never tried his hardest while playing for us. That's setting the bar really low for retiring a number in T.O
Are you counting only the negatives and not the positives?

R. Johnson#3
03-04-2014, 12:41 AM
This is a tough one. I'm not buying all the mushy gushy stuff the media is putting out about him as of late. He obviously didn't care as much about the fans as he says he did. If he DID care that much then he wouldn't have said that he didn't wanna dunk no mo. But on the other hand, he is the greatest player to ever dawn a Raptor uniform.

punkz
03-04-2014, 01:15 AM
He did fake some injuries, gave up on his team/teammates, and other horribly immature things during latter part of his raptor career, but i'm a proponent that a lot of his actions were result of lack of immaturity / talent in all levels of the franchise including the President (Richard Peddie), GM (Rob Babcock), Coack (Kevin O'Neil), and his teammates.

Consider you are at work, you have real inept bosses and your colleagues are just aren't capable of doing anything even at an average level, wouldn't you want out of work?

I know he was getting paid millions and it's a general consensus that people making that much money (especially athletes) need to be role models in our society, but you need to realize that basketball is his job and at that time, he was in a position where he could've found a much better job elsewhere.

He wanted change to be made in the franchise, he wanted improvement, but after he realized things weren't gonna improve at all, he just became disinterested. And instead of reinstalling some level of interest in VC, the team let their ego take over and just kicked him out and paid the price dearly.

Retire VC's jersey.

Mikeleafs
03-04-2014, 01:32 AM
Chris Bosh deserves his # to be retired in Toronto over VC


As much as Im against retiring VC's number I'd would choose VC over Cristina Bosh any day!

Cristina can go prance around in Miami and have his number retired there.

conway429
03-04-2014, 01:51 AM
im not sure they can unless its after amir leaves
maybe a dual retired number?
best raptor ever, mixed with one of everyones favourite raptors ever, share the number together kind of thing maybe

You're suggesting an Amir Johnson jersey retirement...?

There's no way we should be retiring Vince's jersey. He was my favorite player (obviously) when he was here, but it just wasn't enough. I don't blame him for leaving, and I'm not bitter about any of it. But he only took us to what, one playoff round victory? It's just not enough. Throw in the unpleasantness of how it left, I just think we should be holding jersey retirement to a higher standard. Just because he's clearly the best player we've ever had isn't enough, there's no need to retire anyone's jersey until they truly deserve it. It just stinks of desperation that we want to be relevant so bad that we want to honor a player who was only here for 6 or so seasons, and left so negatively.

I'm all for having a Vince Carter night and honoring what he did for us. I might even be more in favor of retiring his jersey if he came back and played for a season or two, mentoring the kids and doing some solid community work to show he really cares about the city. But as of right now I'm perfectly happy moving on, thankful for the memories, but nothing more. Toronto sports fans need to have more respect for themselves.

Retiring Vince's jersey would be like proposing to the slutty girl you lost your virginity to. She was a lot of fun. She showed us things we'd never seen before. It was the first time we ever felt that kind of excitement before. But she cheated on you with some guy you hated. Now 10 years later you creep her on Facebook and she's all washed up -- fat, single, ugly. She says she's sorry for what happened, and has a bunch of excuses -- she was young, she was scared, Billy Simmons' parents just put in a sweet jacuzzi, etc... You're kind of tempted to get back together with her because you've had a rough romantic life. You dated a black girl, a girl from Turkey, and an Italian. They were all disappointing and didn't excite you like she did. But she doesn't deserve you. She's not the one.

The Raptors need to get over it, and have faith that the best is yet to come.

Tmath
03-04-2014, 02:11 AM
This is a tough one. I'm not buying all the mushy gushy stuff the media is putting out about him as of late. He obviously didn't care as much about the fans as he says he did. If he DID care that much then he wouldn't have said that he didn't wanna dunk no mo. But on the other hand, he is the greatest player to ever dawn a Raptor uniform.

Fans talk **** about their teams players all the time. Fans aren't perfect either.

Carter is the best player to wear a Raptor uniform. Even though it didn't end well, you can't forget how great the start of the Carter era was.

The new generation of canadian ballers all say Carter was the reason why they became fans of basketball. Carter inspired them to be what they are doing today. Carter is the reason why I became a Raptor fan, even though I was living on the other side of the world at the time. Thats how big of an impact he had on Toronto, and the whole country of Canada.

The Raptors owners back then (teachers pension) were the downfall of the Raptors. They never let us go into the luxury, even though we had one of the best players in the league at the time. Thank god they were bought out.

Tmath
03-04-2014, 02:21 AM
You're suggesting an Amir Johnson jersey retirement...?

There's no way we should be retiring Vince's jersey. He was my favorite player (obviously) when he was here, but it just wasn't enough. I don't blame him for leaving, and I'm not bitter about any of it. But he only took us to what, one playoff round victory? It's just not enough. Throw in the unpleasantness of how it left, I just think we should be holding jersey retirement to a higher standard. Just because he's clearly the best player we've ever had isn't enough, there's no need to retire anyone's jersey until they truly deserve it. It just stinks of desperation that we want to be relevant so bad that we want to honor a player who was only here for 6 or so seasons, and left so negatively.

I'm all for having a Vince Carter night and honoring what he did for us. I might even be more in favor of retiring his jersey if he came back and played for a season or two, mentoring the kids and doing some solid community work to show he really cares about the city. But as of right now I'm perfectly happy moving on, thankful for the memories, but nothing more. Toronto sports fans need to have more respect for themselves.

Retiring Vince's jersey would be like proposing to the slutty girl you lost your virginity to. She was a lot of fun. She showed us things we'd never seen before. It was the first time we ever felt that kind of excitement before. But she cheated on you with some guy you hated. Now 10 years later you creep her on Facebook and she's all washed up -- fat, single, ugly. She says she's sorry for what happened, and has a bunch of excuses -- she was young, she was scared, Billy Simmons' parents just put in a sweet jacuzzi, etc... You're kind of tempted to get back together with her because you've had a rough romantic life. You dated a black girl, a girl from Turkey, and an Italian. They were all disappointing and didn't excite you like she did. But she doesn't deserve you. She's not the one.

The Raptors need to get over it, and have faith that the best is yet to come.

His impact on Canada basketball alone deserves his jersey to be retired.

JWorthy42
03-04-2014, 02:32 AM
No. He did not earn the right to have his jersey retired.

Jeffy25
03-04-2014, 02:34 AM
My basic barometer is that you retire any players number who who is a hall of famer on a team that he spent the majority of his career.

Carter is probably heading to the Hall (or at least close enough) and he technically played the majority of his minutes with the Raptors (over the Nets).

If the Nets wanted to retire his number, I would be okay with that too.

John Walls Era
03-04-2014, 02:44 AM
He deserves it, but too many people would be booing as hes putting his jersey up there.

mike_noodles
03-04-2014, 03:19 AM
Wow I never knew a guy who could consistently score around 25ppg in the NBA sucked.

If you think that's what he did consistently, you need your tv taken away.



99-00 25.7 PPG
00-01 27.6 PPG
01-02 24.7 PPG

That's three straight seasons, as 24.7 is close enough. At least do a little research to not look like a complete tool.

I think they should retire his jersey. He has shown remorse for his actions, forgive and forget. The reasons for me; ROY, best player in franchise history, greatest dunker of all time, impact on basketball not just in Toronto, but on a whole nation as well as a major impact across the world in Raptors jersey and a soon to be hall of famer. Some of these credentials are not great reasons, but the sum of all the parts = retired jersey.

looka09
03-04-2014, 10:22 AM
Yes.

deaner
03-04-2014, 11:06 AM
Personally, I've held bitterness towards him for a long time. I'm ready to let it go. I see the big picture and what it would mean going forward.

Sure you can say he quit playing, his mother was dreadful addition, his tenure wasn't long enough.... But I'm ready to stop holding onto all of that. It does little to build the outcome I want for our organization.

What does help/continue to build our team is to clean up the blemishes. Toronto is a team on the rise. A perennial top 10 nba team soon. The vince hate just needs to be finished and everyone move forward. Carter influenced so many people regarding basketball. I myself became a fan of the game because of him. Players like Durant idolized him. Celebrating the accomplishments of this player does not condone the negatives. Carter himself has publicly acknowledged the negotiates.

There's two ways this can go. The fans can be over emotional and hold the grudge, or.... We can celebrate the start of our franchise... He put us on the map. He electrified out buildings night after night. Drop the garbage and celebrate. It doesn't condone the negatives, if anything it sheds light on them and we can just call them as they were and move forward. This is about building the brand, celebrating our rather uneventful past, while preparing for our future. It's about free agents, it's about the all star game, it's about building the raptors brand into upper echelon of the nba.

sixers247
03-04-2014, 02:41 PM
Sure why not, on a lighter note just literally got a text from the wife that she got me this while at the NBA store today. Relevant enough haha. http://www.amazon.com/Toronto-Raptors-Hardwood-Classic-Swingman/dp/images/B00E3KDFS2

Jeffy25
03-04-2014, 02:46 PM
If you think that's what he did consistently, you need your tv taken away.

From 99-02 he averaged 26.1 points per game....217 games.

And again, from 04-07 he averaged 24.7 per game.....238 games.

Maybe you should be losing those TV privileges?

This is a simple thing to look up...maybe next time look it up before hitting submit?

KnicksorBust
03-04-2014, 04:07 PM
If the fan base will boo the player at their retirement night then that is probably a sign you've picked the wrong guy. Also, maybe it's just me but I think player's should need to accomplish more with a team to get the number retired...

abe_froman
03-04-2014, 04:12 PM
If the fan base will boo the player at their retirement night then that is probably a sign you've picked the wrong guy. Also, maybe it's just me but I think player's should need to accomplish more with a team to get the number retired...
but you already see the number of fans saying they'll boo decline hugely from even 5 years ago,in another 5-10 years it'll be even less.time has a funny effect to remember the good and filter out the bad

his name is all over the top of the raptors record book,how is that not accomplishing enough?

ghettosean
03-04-2014, 04:19 PM
If the fan base will boo the player at their retirement night then that is probably a sign you've picked the wrong guy. Also, maybe it's just me but I think player's should need to accomplish more with a team to get the number retired...

I agree even if it's a mix it just clearly shows that you're retiring the wrong jersey/wrong player.

Jamiecballer
03-04-2014, 06:08 PM
I agree even if it's a mix it just clearly shows that you're retiring the wrong jersey/wrong player.

i don't. to me it's the organization honoring the players contribution. it shouldn't have anything to do with immature fans.

Hellcrooner
03-04-2014, 07:57 PM
Yes.
Best player in their prime they ever had.


He should.

He and calderón ( longevity with the team).

Bosh...... maybe.

ghettosean
03-04-2014, 10:46 PM
I agree even if it's a mix it just clearly shows that you're retiring the wrong jersey/wrong player.

i don't. to me it's the organization honoring the players contribution. it shouldn't have anything to do with immature fans.

Immature fans or not I can not recall in the HISTORY of the NBA or any sports really of any player being booed while being honored by his team.

Never! Can you???

Not saying I'd be one of the booers if it happened but I certainly wouldn't be shedding tears if it happened for a player who disgraced the city and fans on his way out of town.

NBA_Starter
03-04-2014, 11:04 PM
If Ilgauskas got his retired then why not?

LanceUpperCut
03-04-2014, 11:30 PM
I really couldn't care either way but I have got to say one thing that annoys me about Vince is the fact even after all these years he can't just own up to some of the stupid and immature things he said and did, that their alone would go a long way with some fans. He was exciting and are first mega star but he really only had 4 amazing mind you but only 4 great years then it started to go down hill and the last year here before getting traded were down right pathetic for his skills. People want to give Vince all the credit for guys like Wiggins, Thompson and other Canadian kids coming up like they would of chosen curling instead if Vince didn't bring the Raps to the 2nd round one year, I just don't buy it.

Jamiecballer
03-04-2014, 11:37 PM
^ Out of curiosity how would you like him to do that? Would you like him to take a full page ad out in the Toronto Star? This is a serious question because I've heard this before from Raptor fans but none will ever get specific on how he is supposed to do that or how they know that he hasn't already owned up to those mistakes.

LanceUpperCut
03-05-2014, 07:32 AM
^ Out of curiosity how would you like him to do that? Would you like him to take a full page ad out in the Toronto Star? This is a serious question because I've heard this before from Raptor fans but none will ever get specific on how he is supposed to do that or how they know that he hasn't already owned up to those mistakes.

Well he had plenty of chances for an example maybe a 30 minutes Vince Carter special that just aired. I'm mainly saying this from seeing him already dance around all these question in interviews over the years and somehow always directs the blame else where.