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View Full Version : Does Zydrunas Ilgauskas really deserve for his # to be retired?



sep11ie
03-03-2014, 04:58 PM
Unless I read it wrong is Zydrunas Ilgauskas really getting his #11 retired by the Cavs? If true then where does it stop? Seriously, Zydrunas Ilgauskas?

jerellh528
03-03-2014, 05:03 PM
Lol he was an all star and one of the better centers in the league during their last finals run but no way should he have his jersey retired haha.

abe_froman
03-03-2014, 05:04 PM
dont see why he isnt.top 5 in games and minutes played,points,blocks,rebounds,ect. in franchise history

he is one of the best players in their history(granted cavs dont have that glorious of a history like a celtics or anything,but still...)

Stunner
03-03-2014, 05:06 PM
Yes I think so , he's a Cavs legend .

Big Zo
03-03-2014, 05:07 PM
Why not? He was there for a while, and was a fan favorite. Besides, it's not like they have a long list of good players to choose from.

Ebbs
03-03-2014, 05:10 PM
You work with what you have.

sep11ie
03-03-2014, 05:10 PM
Well then that makes it sound like they are retiring his number just to retire a number.

sep11ie
03-03-2014, 05:11 PM
dont see why he isnt.top 5 in games and minutes played,points,blocks,rebounds,ect. in franchise history

he is one of the best players in their history(granted cavs dont have that glorious of a history like a celtics or anything,but still...)

So LeBron's number will be retired?

abe_froman
03-03-2014, 05:13 PM
So LeBron's number will be retired?

yes,it def will.you wont hear many cav fans admit it because the hurt is still to fresh,but no doubt he will after he retires.

MrfadeawayJB
03-03-2014, 05:15 PM
Umm no

sep11ie
03-03-2014, 05:15 PM
That's what I was thinking.

KnicksorBust
03-03-2014, 05:19 PM
If they have a team hall of fame then by all means put him in there but the idea that they could draft the next Shaquille O'Neal and they would be like "no you can't have #11, that was Big Z's number" is absolutely ridiculous. This feels entirely like a desperate team trying to celebrate something ... anything... even if it wasn't impressive.

Big Zo
03-03-2014, 05:20 PM
Well then that makes it sound like they are retiring his number just to retire a number.
Fans like these ceremonies, and they can sell a few extra tickets because of it. So yeah, pretty much just doing it for that.

Hellcrooner
03-03-2014, 05:20 PM
he played there for a LOOOONG time.

there are a lot of dudes that have their numbers retired that wouldnot make the cut if you only followed a rings, multi allstars, rigns criteria....

petrovic
wendell lattner
bill melchionni
bingo Smith ( cavs)
Austin carr ( cavs)
brad Davis
Byron beck
mel daniels
junior bridgeman
malik sealey
Bobby phils
dave twardzik
lionell hollins
bob gross
bob Davies
vlade divac
avery Johnson
bruce bowen
darrell grffith


half that list were worse players than ilgauskas or didnt play for similary as long as he did for the team.

ewing
03-03-2014, 05:21 PM
no

Goose17
03-03-2014, 05:35 PM
If he's a local favourite then why not? I fully expect Haslem to have his number retired but he was far from a superstar.

I think retiring jerseys should have less to do with how the league/world views you and how local fans and the franchise itself view you. If you were loyal and a fan favourite, why not?

Hellcrooner
03-03-2014, 05:52 PM
would you be surprised if the raptors ended up retiring calderons number because he was very good with the fans/comunity, stayed there for a very long time and is up in raptors all time stats ranks?

Chronz
03-03-2014, 07:02 PM
Does Daugherty have a retired jersey?

I have no problem with it, its like the HOF, completely subjective. Big Z was very productive for them for many years. Other teams have retired the jersey of lesser players, if Miami can retire the jersey of a player who never played for them, I dont see why someone as classy and productive as Big Z was for Cleveland cant do the same.

You can argue the Cavs dont do this if they never have as much post season success thanks mostly to Bron, but thats sometimes how these things work, lots of factors come into play. Bron and Big Z were an underrated duo, they really opened the game up for each other.

abe_froman
03-03-2014, 07:12 PM
Does Daugherty have a retired jersey?
.
yes

..as well as thurmond,carr,price,nance, and bingo smith(and of course z now)

sep11ie
03-03-2014, 07:16 PM
would you be surprised if the raptors ended up retiring calderons number because he was very good with the fans/comunity, stayed there for a very long time and is up in raptors all time stats ranks?

Lol, yes, I would be just as surprised if Calderon's number is retired. Maybe more...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-03-2014, 07:24 PM
he's the Cavs leader in games played, rebounds, blocks and 2nd in points.

Why not?

Seahawker562
03-03-2014, 07:26 PM
That would be like the Clippers retiring Chris Kamans number, doesnt make sense.

KingPosey
03-03-2014, 07:39 PM
I think Vlade was much better but there isn't much different about their arcs with their teams when comparing him to my Kings, and I don't think anyone would have a word to say abou the Kings doing that for him.

nastynice
03-03-2014, 07:42 PM
he played there for a LOOOONG time.

there are a lot of dudes that have their numbers retired that wouldnot make the cut if you only followed a rings, multi allstars, rigns criteria....

petrovic
wendell lattner
bill melchionni
bingo Smith ( cavs)
Austin carr ( cavs)
brad Davis
Byron beck
mel daniels
junior bridgeman
malik sealey
Bobby phils
dave twardzik
lionell hollins
bob gross
bob Davies
vlade divac
avery Johnson
bruce bowen
darrell grffith


half that list were worse players than ilgauskas or didnt play for similary as long as he did for the team.

lol, it seemed mad random to retire big z number, but after seeing this list I guess it ain't all that bad

Chronz
03-03-2014, 07:47 PM
That would be like the Clippers retiring Chris Kamans number, doesnt make sense.
Except Kaman never had the production, impact, success, or time served. Thats pretty important.

Seahawker562
03-03-2014, 07:51 PM
Except Kaman never had the production, impact, success, or time served. Thats pretty important.

Those are immeasurable s besides production, and they're not to far off in that category so I fail to see your point. Kaman was just as good as Z

treglip
03-03-2014, 08:06 PM
He's no Ehlo!!!

John Walls Era
03-03-2014, 08:09 PM
You either have to be a: long time member of the team, a superstar/[multiple]all-star or a contributor to a championship team --- or a long time contender.

Big Z fits maybe 2.5 of those categories. Its also the Cavs, so a fan who renews their season tickets was probably considered.

IKnowHoops
03-03-2014, 08:28 PM
That would be like the Clippers retiring Chris Kamans number, doesnt make sense.

As bad as the Clippers franchise has been historically, Cleveland is worse, and lately much much much worse, and quite possibly the worst 4 years stretch in NBA history. Big Z does deserve his number retired which is a testament to just how awful the Cleveland franchise is. The Spurs retire guys like DRob, Lakers Magic, and Kareem. Cleveland, well Big Z.

JasonJohnHorn
03-03-2014, 08:28 PM
He was with the team for the better part of his career. Was an all-star. Is a HOF player and international player. Was loyal to the team even after they traded him, signed back with them.

I have no issue with him getting his number retired. I don't know if I would do it myself, but hey, he was a loyal guy and deserves some recognition, so if the team wants to honour him, why not. I'm sure he did a lot in the community, so showing him some love isn't just about what he did on the court.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-03-2014, 08:32 PM
Those are immeasurable s besides production, and they're not to far off in that category so I fail to see your point. Kaman was just as good as Z

wow:facepalm:
Caveman is joke of a player compared to big Z.

Seahawker562
03-03-2014, 08:39 PM
wow:facepalm:
Caveman is joke of a player compared to big Z.

All time stats
Big Z- 13 ppg 1.6 blk .476 FG%
Kaman- 11.7 ppg 1.4 blk .486 FG%

Ya a real joke huh... Do some homework, you sound like a typical bitter Lakers fan

numba1CHANGsta
03-03-2014, 08:39 PM
Cavs are a joke LOL

NYKNYGNYY
03-03-2014, 08:43 PM
No idts I think they're doing it to put ***** in the seats

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-03-2014, 08:58 PM
All time stats
Big Z- 13 ppg 1.6 blk .476 FG%
Kaman- 11.7 ppg 1.4 blk .486 FG%

Ya a real joke huh... Do some homework, you sound like a typical bitter Lakers fan

Dont get me started with regular stats. Yeah I'm a typical bitter Laker fan :rolleyes:

Caveman has -0.7 offensive win shares. He has played 8 seasons.
Big Z 33.7 offensive win shares in 12 seasons.

Whoever mentions Kaman and Big Z in same breath is delusional.

These guys are uncomparable.

Cavs_Fan24
03-03-2014, 09:57 PM
Big Z meant a lot to the franchise during his time here. Like someone had posted earlier, 2nd in points, first in rebounds and games played.

Retiring a players number has nothing to do with the rest of the league, it has to do with the franchise that they played for.

kobe4thewinbang
03-03-2014, 10:52 PM
Absolutely. I watched several games of him and LBJ doing their thing. (I got the local Cavs channel).

SlimKid
03-03-2014, 11:01 PM
Why the f' not? It's all subjective. He meant a lot to them.

FlashBolt
03-04-2014, 12:42 AM
When your franchise never had much of anything, Big Z deserves it. Heck, I honestly think Cavs should retire LeBron's jersey.

Chronz
03-04-2014, 01:34 AM
Those are immeasurable s besides production, and they're not to far off in that category so I fail to see your point. Kaman was just as good as Z
They are far different statistically, that is if you understand statistics and not antiquated averages

Chronz
03-04-2014, 01:40 AM
All time stats
Big Z- 13 ppg 1.6 blk .476 FG%
Kaman- 11.7 ppg 1.4 blk .486 FG%

Ya a real joke huh... Do some homework, you sound like a typical bitter Lakers fan

You call him a joke but then cite useless statistics like FG%? What about efficiency?

If you're going to ignore the immeasurable, at least get the measurable right.

John Walls Era
03-04-2014, 03:01 AM
Dont get me started with regular stats. Yeah I'm a typical bitter Laker fan :rolleyes:

Caveman has -0.7 offensive win shares. He has played 8 seasons.
Big Z 33.7 offensive win shares in 12 seasons.

Whoever mentions Kaman and Big Z in same breath is delusional.

These guys are uncomparable.

I'm just throwing this out there. Playing with Lebron would boost my win shares. He does deserve it since is the Cavs, but just using WS is not enough.

Chronz
03-04-2014, 03:44 AM
I'm just throwing this out there. Playing with Lebron would boost my win shares. He does deserve it since is the Cavs, but just using WS is not enough.

Bron did enhance Big Z's WS score by virtue of helping him make it a winning team and setting him up for years. But they did help each other (Most of Brons assists have come from Big Z) and FYI, offensive win shares are as much of an individual stat as rebounding, PER or fg%. If you're implying that Bron enhanced his efficiency in those areas, then you should remember that Big Z was still a pretty good player LONG before Bron ever showed up. By several barometers he graded as an All-Star caliber player. In fact, he posted the highest WS season of his career his rookie year, right before the foot problems arrived. Granted most of that was due to his DWS but I would argue he deserved some credit for his teams defensive success. That Cavs team with Kemp and Zydrunas were one of the best defenses of All-Time, as ridiculous as that sounds, the statistics bear it out. Big Z had that Yao effect, they could be exposed 1 on 1, but in a team setting, they were elite rim protectors. I dont know how much credit goes to Big Z here, but not enough to entirely dismiss his DWS/DRTG.

And compared to Kaman, Big Z ***** on him in every way. And I say this as someone who once overrated the **** outta Kaman. I was blinded by a few pretty moves here and there, ignoring the massive amount of misses he chucked up.

Sadds The Gr8
03-04-2014, 04:32 AM
**** no, but I wasn't surprised when I heard they were gonna do it.

CityofChaos
03-04-2014, 04:34 AM
why not? he spent his whole career in Cleveland before taking his talents to Miami.

John Walls Era
03-04-2014, 12:34 PM
Bron did enhance Big Z's WS score by virtue of helping him make it a winning team and setting him up for years. But they did help each other (Most of Brons assists have come from Big Z) and FYI, offensive win shares are as much of an individual stat as rebounding, PER or fg%. If you're implying that Bron enhanced his efficiency in those areas, then you should remember that Big Z was still a pretty good player LONG before Bron ever showed up. By several barometers he graded as an All-Star caliber player. In fact, he posted the highest WS season of his career his rookie year, right before the foot problems arrived. Granted most of that was due to his DWS but I would argue he deserved some credit for his teams defensive success. That Cavs team with Kemp and Zydrunas were one of the best defenses of All-Time, as ridiculous as that sounds, the statistics bear it out. Big Z had that Yao effect, they could be exposed 1 on 1, but in a team setting, they were elite rim protectors. I dont know how much credit goes to Big Z here, but not enough to entirely dismiss his DWS/DRTG.

And compared to Kaman, Big Z ***** on him in every way. And I say this as someone who once overrated the **** outta Kaman. I was blinded by a few pretty moves here and there, ignoring the massive amount of misses he chucked up.

I never said Kaman was good. He had one impactful season.

The_Jamal
03-04-2014, 01:13 PM
No problem with it. Big Z is a Cavs icon. I feel like retiring jersey's is less about stats and more about important that player was to the team.

THE MTL
03-04-2014, 01:26 PM
Seems like nowadays everyone gets their jersey retired.

FreakaNashur
03-04-2014, 02:29 PM
Big Z is the cavs what UD is to the Miami heat.

Jeffy25
03-04-2014, 02:33 PM
Yeah.....he's no hall of famer....but he is a Cavs great....considering they have like none.

Seahawker562
03-04-2014, 03:26 PM
Dont get me started with regular stats. Yeah I'm a typical bitter Laker fan :rolleyes:

Caveman has -0.7 offensive win shares. He has played 8 seasons.
Big Z 33.7 offensive win shares in 12 seasons.

Whoever mentions Kaman and Big Z in same breath is delusional.

These guys are uncomparable.

Yes but Big Z got to play with the likes of LBJ and Mo Williams. Kaman had to play on the CLIPPERS. The CLIPPERS, historically the worst major sports franchise in America. So if you're going to use something like win percentages, take in to account the teams they play for. At least individual stats tell somewhat of a story, win pct says how good the TEAM was

mjt20mik
03-04-2014, 04:01 PM
Big Z is the cavs what UD is to the Miami heat.

And UD is gonna get his jersey retired. Dude is a total team guy, and when I think about the Heat I think...

Mourning, Jones, Hardaway, Wade, and UD.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-04-2014, 07:02 PM
Yes but Big Z got to play with the likes of LBJ and Mo Williams. Kaman had to play on the CLIPPERS. The CLIPPERS, historically the worst major sports franchise in America. So if you're going to use something like win percentages, take in to account the teams they play for. At least individual stats tell somewhat of a story, win pct says how good the TEAM was

my god...they are win shares not win percentage.

Is there any other player in the league who has played 30 mpg in his career and hasnt produced any offensive win shares? Chris Kaman is a black hole.

mrblisterdundee
03-04-2014, 07:17 PM
Standards are lower in a city without a championship.

Chronz
03-04-2014, 07:46 PM
Yes but Big Z got to play with the likes of LBJ and Mo Williams. Kaman had to play on the CLIPPERS. The CLIPPERS, historically the worst major sports franchise in America. So if you're going to use something like win percentages, take in to account the teams they play for. At least individual stats tell somewhat of a story, win pct says how good the TEAM was
OWS is not "win%" , its an individual stat based on individual efficiency. And before you say Kaman had it rough, he was like our 4th or 5th option offensively one year and was still not above league average in efficiency. He has never been efficient. Big Z has, and it was long before Bron ever showed up.

It may not be a big difference to you if you ignore their defensive contributions and focus only on individual statistics, but there is a noticeable difference between the 2.

Kaman wasted possessions no matter who was around him. Big Z could actually compliment players

Seahawker562
03-04-2014, 08:28 PM
my god...they are win shares not win percentage.

Is there any other player in the league who has played 30 mpg in his career and hasnt produced any offensive win shares? Chris Kaman is a black hole.

Well regardless of win shares Kaman is still on the same par as Z with the situations they were in respectively.

Swashcuff
03-04-2014, 08:51 PM
Well regardless of win shares Kaman is still on the same par as Z with the situations they were in respectively.

Bottomline of everything is that as a member of the Cavs organization Illgauskas is their longest tenured player, top 3 in most of their statistical categories and was a absolute favourite of their fans for a variety of reasons. In the NBA that's MORE than enough to have your jersey retired by that organization. We can't say anything near that for Kaman and the Clips.

krazylegz
03-04-2014, 09:01 PM
AAAALOTTA teams retire team numbers that wont be in the hall of fame by any means in pro sports....yes,big z does deserve to have his digits retired in cleveland

NBA_Starter
03-04-2014, 09:27 PM
Yes, he deserves it more than some other people that have them retired.

TheMightyHumph
03-04-2014, 11:24 PM
Unless I read it wrong is Zydrunas Ilgauskas really getting his #11 retired by the Cavs? If true then where does it stop? Seriously, Zydrunas Ilgauskas?

Why would ANYONE object to Cavs retiring Big Z's number?

rhino17
03-05-2014, 03:06 AM
He was the 2nd best player on a team that made the finals, was a top 5 center for most of his career and played for a historically bad franchise

Of course he deserves it

abe_froman
03-05-2014, 03:13 AM
He was the 2nd best player on a team that made the finals, was a top 5 center for most of his career and played for a historically bad franchise

Of course he deserves it

i wouldnt go that far