PDA

View Full Version : Allen Iverson was blackballed out of the NBA...



Pages : [1] 2

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 05:21 PM
Wasn't a fan of the guy, but as I saw how dirty and corrupt the NBA was I realized this dude got blackballed out of the NBA....his jersey is retired tomorrow but really he should be on a roster somewhere.

The truth: http://www.balldontstop.com/blackballed-the-media-and-nba-forced-allen-iverson-into-retirement/

What you guys think?

Slug3
02-28-2014, 05:25 PM
Didn't he get a few offers but he wanted more money?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-28-2014, 05:25 PM
:yawn:

abe_froman
02-28-2014, 05:32 PM
ummm no,i remember seeing him when he was with the grizzlies and he was clearly done

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 05:36 PM
He got offers but they were from overseas and d-league.....which was pretty disrespectful to a former MVP. Since the age of 34 he didn't get a true NBA offer.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 05:38 PM
The league had seen enough. He had a bad influence on a entire generation of ballers. Good riddance.

NoahH
02-28-2014, 05:38 PM
Blackballed by the homeboys and the illuminati, just like Jimmer....

SMH

RubberBand Man
02-28-2014, 05:40 PM
Sorry but the guy was selfish til the end I respected his game in his prime but he clearly played his self out of the league by falling to adapt. The guy thought he was going to start on the Grizzlies, and got pissed off when they benched him. Lol

Kaner
02-28-2014, 05:41 PM
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/nba/allen-iverson-net-worth/

He definitely could have used that final contract

Tony_Starks
02-28-2014, 05:42 PM
The league had seen enough. He had a bad influence on a entire generation of ballers. Good riddance.


Wow. Somehow I'm not surprised.....

Asik's better
02-28-2014, 05:46 PM
He got offers but they were from overseas and d-league.....which was pretty disrespectful to a former MVP. Since the age of 34 he didn't get a true NBA offer.
He was done. He had nothing to offer a team. This is the dumbest most delusional article ever.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 05:47 PM
Wow. Somehow I'm not surprised.....

You shouldn't be. I'm sure its a sentiment shared by many.

whyumadbro!
02-28-2014, 05:47 PM
A.I had ego issues and not much of a team player. A.I does whats best for A.I, not the team IMO and the fact that he keeps wearing baggy clothes, durags etc to professional events is a turn off. He is a professional basketball player - but he sees himself as a hood player making money.

FOBolous
02-28-2014, 05:47 PM
i thought there were teams that wanted hiim to take on a 6th man role, but he turned them down due to pride? he wanted to be a starter?

abe_froman
02-28-2014, 05:52 PM
i thought there were teams that wanted hiim to take on a 6th man role, but he turned them down due to pride? he wanted to be a starter?
this is also true

2-ONE-5
02-28-2014, 05:54 PM
way to long of an article but i read some its fairly accurate in the beggining. AI is the reason why Stern created the dress code in the league. He is partly to blame on why he was out of the league tho bcuz he refused to take a lesser role for a period of time when he wasnt the same guy that could be the man. Really a shame but all is well that ends well tomorrow night when we raise his jersey to the rafter with Sixers and NBA legends.

Kashmir13579
02-28-2014, 05:55 PM
You shouldn't be. I'm sure its a sentiment shared by many.

Shared by many racists.

5ass
02-28-2014, 05:57 PM
Shared by many racists.

He's talking about ball hogging.

Kashmir13579
02-28-2014, 06:04 PM
He's talking about ball hogging.

That existed before Iverson..

2-ONE-5
02-28-2014, 06:10 PM
and still does just ask the cavs players

AIverson
02-28-2014, 06:11 PM
It is his own fault, really. He lost his hunger to play nba basketball.

odiz
02-28-2014, 06:11 PM
I just went and looked at some of his stats again.

2003-04:

26.4 ppg ON 23.4 SHOTS!!! 38.7% shooting with 4.4 TO a game! 28% from 3 but he still took 4 a game! Why on earth was he allowed to handle and shoot the ball so often.

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 06:14 PM
How the hell is wearing du-rags, baggy clothes a bad thing? He can wear whatever he wants....you see what the new school players are wearing? Nerd glasses, dressing like scholars from the 50's lol....at least he is true to himself.

I hated Iverson's guts and all this ish about him too, but I was super ignorant that time and a lot of fans are still.

2-ONE-5
02-28-2014, 06:15 PM
I just went and looked at some of his stats again.

2003-04:

26.4 ppg ON 23.4 SHOTS!!! 38.7% shooting with 4.4 TO a game! 28% from 3 but he still took 4 a game! Why on earth was he allowed to handle and shoot the ball so often.

look at the roster.

FOBolous
02-28-2014, 06:20 PM
I just went and looked at some of his stats again.

2003-04:

26.4 ppg ON 23.4 SHOTS!!! 38.7% shooting with 4.4 TO a game! 28% from 3 but he still took 4 a game! Why on earth was he allowed to handle and shoot the ball so often.

yea he wasn't the most effecient of guys...especially towards the end of his career. it's a wonder how him and carmelo coexisted in Denver.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 06:21 PM
Shared by many racists.

LOL.

i couldn't care less about the clothing or the cornrows or any of that crap.

Tony_Starks
02-28-2014, 06:21 PM
Wasn't a fan of the guy, but as I saw how dirty and corrupt the NBA was I realized this dude got blackballed out of the NBA....his jersey is retired tomorrow but really he should be on a roster somewhere.

The truth: http://www.balldontstop.com/blackballed-the-media-and-nba-forced-allen-iverson-into-retirement/

What you guys think?

That was a real article. The truth is a lot of the suits resented AI for bringing a "hiphop thug" image to NBA. They hated what he represented but during his prime there was nothing they could do because he was dominating the league and the most popular player in the game.

The fact that he couldn't even get a workout these last few years says it all. Old Jerry Stackhouse is still getting workouts. Sorry a_ss Jason Collins got a 10 day! And AI couldn't even get so much as a workout? Yeah right....

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 06:25 PM
That was a real article. The truth is a lot of the suits resented AI for bringing a "hiphop thug" image to NBA. They hated what he represented but during his prime there was nothing they could do because he was dominating the league and the most popular player in the game.


Exactly. A lot of people that have played basketball or have gone through some type of adversity/racism in their lives will know that AI was treated unfairly by the suits, his dominance in the early 00's was undeniable so they made money off him while they could.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 06:30 PM
Exactly. A lot of people that have played basketball or have gone through some type of adversity/racism in their lives will know that AI was treated unfairly by the suits, his dominance in the early 00's was undeniable so they made money off him while they could.

ya, that makes sense. if he was such a money maker it would make sense to keep him out of the league. :rolleyes:

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 06:32 PM
That was a real article. The truth is a lot of the suits resented AI for bringing a "hiphop thug" image to NBA. They hated what he represented but during his prime there was nothing they could do because he was dominating the league and the most popular player in the game.

The fact that he couldn't even get a workout these last few years says it all. Old Jerry Stackhouse is still getting workouts. Sorry a_ss Jason Collins got a 10 day! And AI couldn't even get so much as a workout? Yeah right....

he was dominating the league?

can you pinpoint for those of us who don't remember it that way exactly when that was?

TheMightyHumph
02-28-2014, 06:34 PM
Wasn't a fan of the guy, but as I saw how dirty and corrupt the NBA was I realized this dude got blackballed out of the NBA....his jersey is retired tomorrow but really he should be on a roster somewhere.

The truth: http://www.balldontstop.com/blackballed-the-media-and-nba-forced-allen-iverson-into-retirement/

What you guys think?

I think he was treated by the NBA in a way that he worked hard to deserve,

Not hard enough to practice, though.

TheMightyHumph
02-28-2014, 06:36 PM
That existed before Iverson..

But Iverson made it an art-form

John Walls Era
02-28-2014, 06:40 PM
He refused to be the 6th man in Detroit and Memphis. Why would bad teams sign him if hes not willing to take a mentor role? Why would good teams sign a 34 year old Iverson that lost a step and a shell of his former self? AI was one of my favorite players to watch back then, but he was injury prone and not a very good starter at the end of his career. He wasn't blackballed.

I will agree that the D-league offer is downright insulting, but he got paid in Europe.

TheMightyHumph
02-28-2014, 06:41 PM
look at the roster.

the rest of the roster played that badly???????????

Tony_Starks
02-28-2014, 06:47 PM
he was dominating the league?

can you pinpoint for those of us who don't remember it that way exactly when that was?

The multiple times he was leading the league in scoring? MVP?Multiple Allstar appearances and MVPs? Singlehandedly getting one of the least talented finals teams ever to the Finals?

On top of that top NBA jersey seller. He was the most popular player on and off the court for years, specifically from like '00 to maybe '04.

Put your stat sheet down sometimes buddy...

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 06:48 PM
he was dominating the league?

can you pinpoint for those of us who don't remember it that way exactly when that was?

2001 he was the best player in the NBA. Up untill 2007 there was not a single player in the L who could guard Iverson or "shut him down", he averaged 28 a game for his career till 2009, he was pretty effin dominant if you ask me.

Definitely the best guard in the L in the past decade behind Kobe.

Jenceman
02-28-2014, 06:50 PM
2001 he was the best player in the NBA. Up untill 2007 there was not a single player in the L who could guard Iverson or "shut him down", he averaged 28 a game for his career till 2009, he was pretty effin dominant if you ask me.

Definitely the best guard in the L in the past decade behind Kobe.

Tracy McGrady says hi

ModernDaySavage
02-28-2014, 06:51 PM
Wow I just looked at his career salaries, made his most ever the one year with Detroit. Pretty funny.

Goose17
02-28-2014, 06:51 PM
3RDASYSTEM or whatever he's called (the guy who randomly types words in block capitals) is going to have a field day with this thread.

Anyway, couldn't Iverson have taken a D-league spot and worked his way back up? Wouldn't have taken long if he could still ball.

I doubt he was kicked out for not having a clean cut image, we have guys pointing guns at their wives, smoking weed, look at the way Cousins acts, J.R Smith, look at Barkley, a gambling addict that spends his weekend throwing people through windows and now he's an analyst. There are dozens of alcoholics, gambling addicts, drug addicts, wannabe gangsters and crazies throughout the history of this league. Jermaine O'Neal punched a fan in the face, knocked him out cold, now he's one of the more respected veteran role players in the league. MWP started that very same brawl, he's still balling. Sprewell choked out his coach, Kobe raped a chick, many guys have been convicted of DUIs, Dennis Rodman was a cross dresser, Calvin Murphy had like a thousand kids and was constantly starting fights, Gilbert Arenas was waving guns around in the locker room, Delonte West is a bi polar guy known to scrap with team mates and carry a variety of guns, Jayson Williams was involved in a bar brawl (at least twice), he shot a limousine driver, and was caught driving under the influence...

What makes Iverson so special?


Coaches are paying attention to chemistry now more than ever. If he wanted to, he could have taken that D-league offer, proved he could still ball AND that he had matured and could be a good team mate off the court, then he would have been flooded with offers. But his pride stopped him. He is to blame, nobody else. And the D-league (in terms of talent and prestige) is comparable to the Turkish league he played in.

Tony_Starks
02-28-2014, 06:54 PM
He refused to be the 6th man in Detroit and Memphis. Why would bad teams sign him if hes not willing to take a mentor role? Why would good teams sign a 34 year old Iverson that lost a step and a shell of his former self? AI was one of my favorite players to watch back then, but he was injury prone and not a very good starter at the end of his career. He wasn't blackballed.

I will agree that the D-league offer is downright insulting, but he got paid in Europe.

To be fair in Memphis they told him he would start to just get him to sign and boost ticket sales then when he got there they pulled the switcharoo and wanted him to backup Conley.

Then in Detroit they wanted him to back up Stuckey which was a downright slap in the face.

After he played overseas he did say numerous times that he would come off the bench and he just wanted a chance to get back in the league and prove himself but it was too late, he was already blackballed. Couldn't get a camp invite from one single team and that's a damn shame.

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 06:56 PM
3RDASYSTEM or whatever he's called (the guy who randomly types words in block capitals) is going to have a field day with this thread.

Anyway, couldn't Iverson have taken a D-league spot and worked his way back up? Wouldn't have taken long if he could still ball.

I doubt he was kicked out for not having a clean cut image, we have guys pointing guns at their wives, smoking weed, look at the way Cousins acts, J.R Smith, look at Barkley, a gambling addict that spends his weekend throwing people through windows and now he's an analyst. There are dozens of alcoholics, gambling addicts, drug addicts, wannabe gangsters and crazies throughout the history of this league. Jermaine O'Neal punched a fan in the face, knocked him out cold, now he's one of the more respected veteran role players in the league. MWP started that very same brawl, he's still balling. Sprewell choked out his coach, Kobe raped a chick, many guys have been convicted of DUIs, Dennis Rodman was a cross dresser, Calvin Murphy had like a thousand kids and was constantly starting fights, Gilbert Arenas was waving guns around in the locker room, Delonte West is a bi polar guy known to scrap with team mates and carry a variety of guns, Jayson Williams was involved in a bar brawl (at least twice), he shot a limousine driver, and was caught driving under the influence...

What makes Iverson so special?


Coaches are paying attention to chemistry now more than ever. If he wanted to, he could have taken that D-league offer, proved he could still ball AND that he had matured and could be a good team mate off the court, then he would have been flooded with offers. But his pride stopped him. He is to blame, nobody else. And the D-league (in terms of talent and prestige) is comparable to the Turkish league he played in.


What made Iverson special? HE WAS THE FACE OF THE DAMN LEAGUE, he had one of the highest selling jerseys, he was the leading scorer, an MVP candidate year-after-year....he was respected and looked up to by everyone in the league......JR Smith, Cousins, and the other guys you named are guys who made it to the NBA they aren't even All-Stars, Allen Iverson was a goddamn megastar, he is one of the top 10 biggest STARS (starpower) in NBA history...anything he did had a big effect.

For example, his name to this day is so big that we can still have a 3 page thread about him despite him being out of the L for 4 years...says a lot about it.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 06:59 PM
The multiple times he was leading the league in scoring? MVP?Multiple Allstar appearances and MVPs? Singlehandedly getting one of the least talented finals teams ever to the Finals?

On top of that top NBA jersey seller. He was the most popular player on and off the court for years, specifically from like '00 to maybe '04.

Put your stat sheet down sometimes buddy...
he accomplished those things because he was the most selfish offensive player in the game by a mile and played 40+ mins a game.

he would never win an MVP today, not a chance.

and yes he was insanely popular. he was tiny, fearless, and said "F U" to the man. of course he would be popular.


2001 he was the best player in the NBA. Up untill 2007 there was not a single player in the L who could guard Iverson or "shut him down", he averaged 28 a game for his career till 2009, he was pretty effin dominant if you ask me.

Definitely the best guard in the L in the past decade behind Kobe.
being unguardable doesn't count for **** if the end result is a low percentage, poorly used offensive possession.

TheMightyHumph
02-28-2014, 07:00 PM
What made Iverson special? HE WAS THE FACE OF THE DAMN LEAGUE, he had one of the highest selling jerseys, he was the leading scorer, an MVP candidate year-after-year....he was respected and looked up to by everyone in the league......JR Smith, Cousins, and the other guys you named are guys who made it to the NBA they aren't even All-Stars, Allen Iverson was a goddamn megastar, he is one of the top 10 biggest STARS (starpower) in NBA history...anything he did had a big effect.

For example, his name to this day is so big that we can still have a 3 page thread about him despite him being out of the L for 4 years...says a lot about it.

Refs didn't look up to AI.

abe_froman
02-28-2014, 07:01 PM
What made Iverson special? HE WAS THE FACE OF THE DAMN LEAGUE, he had one of the highest selling jerseys, he was the leading scorer, an MVP candidate year-after-year....he was respected and looked up to by everyone in the league......JR Smith, Cousins, and the other guys you named are guys who made it to the NBA they aren't even All-Stars, Allen Iverson was a goddamn megastar, he is one of the top 10 biggest STARS (starpower) in NBA history...anything he did had a big effect.

For example, his name to this day is so big that we can still have a 3 page thread about him despite him being out of the L for 4 years...says a lot about it.

how was he the face of the league? he played at the same time as jordan,shaq,kobe,lebron...

and how has it reached 3 pages? because your keeping it alive and its a slow news day in the nba

Goose17
02-28-2014, 07:01 PM
What made Iverson special? HE WAS THE FACE OF THE DAMN LEAGUE, he had one of the highest selling jerseys, he was the leading scorer, an MVP candidate year-after-year....he was respected and looked up to by everyone in the league......JR Smith, Cousins, and the other guys you named are guys who made it to the NBA they aren't even All-Stars, Allen Iverson was a goddamn megastar, he is one of the top 10 biggest STARS (starpower) in NBA history...anything he did had a big effect.


None of that matters, they're talking about not liking what he portrays, not liking his image. Was Kobe not the face of the league when he raped that chick? Was Barkley not an NBA superstar when he was a gambling addict throwing guys through windows? Was Dennis Rodman not an NBA star when he was cross dressing? What about Len Bias? Tipped to be a top 5 pick, overdosed.

Plenty of "superstars" or "potential superstars" have had images that are far from clean cut but had successful careers.

At the end of the day if he had swallowed his pride and taken the D-league contract, proven he could still ball (no reason to think he could) and proven that he was more mature, he would have gotten dozens of offers.

He did this to himself. Nobody else is to blame.

Tony_Starks
02-28-2014, 07:07 PM
Well I for one am just glad I got to see AI actually play. As we delve deeper into the new stat geek era he will undoubtedly be more and more forgotten and disrespected but those of us that watched him know what time it is.

This guy was all out every single night and the most unstoppable player of his era next to Shaq.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 07:10 PM
Well I for one am just glad I got to see AI actually play. As we delve deeper into the new stat geek era he will undoubtedly be more and more forgotten and disrespected but those of us that watched him know what time it is.

This guy was all out every single night and the most unstoppable player of his era next to Shaq.

It was entertaining I will agree with that.

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 07:10 PM
Do you know that Iverson at the 2009 All-Star Weekend during Media Session potentially commit career suicide by spitting the truest thing ever when asked about NBA Cares:

Iverson said NBA cares was "fake" and he doesn't need cameras when hes doing good in the community, he said GOD isn't going to be there with a camera when its decision time, it was the truest thing ever but AI basically took a ***** on the NBA's most pumped up program at the time and it was their main campaign and now you got one of the most influential players exposing it.

AI said whatever he wanted.

NoahH
02-28-2014, 07:11 PM
Do you know that Iverson at the 2009 All-Star Weekend during Media Session potentially commit career suicide by spitting the truest thing ever when asked about NBA Cares:

Iverson said NBA cares was "fake" and he doesn't need cameras when hes doing good in the community, he said GOD isn't going to be there with a camera when its decision time, it was the truest thing ever but AI basically took a ***** on the NBA's most pumped up program at the time and it was their main campaign and now you got one of the most influential players exposing it.

AI said whatever he wanted.

I always thought NBA Cares was a bit of a sham lol

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 07:12 PM
Well I for one am just glad I got to see AI actually play. As we delve deeper into the new stat geek era he will undoubtedly be more and more forgotten and disrespected but those of us that watched him know what time it is.

This guy was all out every single night and the most unstoppable player of his era next to Shaq.

If you enjoyed that just wait until Westbrook gets his own team. Iverson 2.0 I guarantee it.

Jamiecballer
02-28-2014, 07:13 PM
Do you know that Iverson at the 2009 All-Star Weekend during Media Session potentially commit career suicide by spitting the truest thing ever when asked about NBA Cares:

Iverson said NBA cares was "fake" and he doesn't need cameras when hes doing good in the community, he said GOD isn't going to be there with a camera when its decision time, it was the truest thing ever but AI basically took a ***** on the NBA's most pumped up program at the time and it was their main campaign and now you got one of the most influential players exposing it.

AI said whatever he wanted.
There you go. He did it to himself.

Goose17
02-28-2014, 07:13 PM
I still have this jersey (this isn't my pic)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/bB8AAOxyRhBS5epB/$_35.JPG

Got it when I was 14, funny part is, it was so over sized for me, it actually still fits me now, over a decade later. smh...

ManRam
02-28-2014, 07:16 PM
His production didn't match his perceived value and personal demands. That's what doomed him. I mean, I can't speak for certainty...but yeah.


He was no longer even an average defender. His size was hurting him. He was an inefficient scorer who was passing less and less than ever...and a malcontent too. Why would a good team want him, especially if he had salary/salary length demands?

Atticus Finch
02-28-2014, 07:47 PM
To be fair in Memphis they told him he would start to just get him to sign and boost ticket sales then when he got there they pulled the switcharoo and wanted him to backup Conley.

Then in Detroit they wanted him to back up Stuckey which was a downright slap in the face.

After he played overseas he did say numerous times that he would come off the bench and he just wanted a chance to get back in the league and prove himself but it was too late, he was already blackballed. Couldn't get a camp invite from one single team and that's a damn shame.

You got this backwards. Detroit told him he was going to start, then played him off the bench. He played on the Grizzlies the year after that.

Tony_Starks
02-28-2014, 08:00 PM
You got this backwards. Detroit told him he was going to start, then played him off the bench. He played on the Grizzlies the year after that.

In Detroit he had no choice he eas traded there. Then Memphis signed him as a FA and made this whole big spectacle about him being the starting guard. Big press conference, sold a whole bunch of tickets and jerseys. Then they flipped the script and wanted him to come off the bench and he got pissed and said that's not what they bought him there for....

A immature way to handle it but still shady and insulting on their part. That would be like Brooklyn bringing KG over and telling him to backup Humphries.....

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 08:21 PM
In Detroit he had no choice he eas traded there. Then Memphis signed him as a FA and made this whole big spectacle about him being the starting guard. Big press conference, sold a whole bunch of tickets and jerseys. Then they flipped the script and wanted him to come off the bench and he got pissed and said that's not what they bought him there for....

A immature way to handle it but still shady and insulting on their part. That would be like Brooklyn bringing KG over and telling him to backup Humphries.....


That was so bs....they took him away from the Heat, Bobcats who were all ready to give him a starting spot and let Mike Conley start over him.

Atticus Finch
02-28-2014, 08:26 PM
In Detroit he had no choice he eas traded there. Then Memphis signed him as a FA and made this whole big spectacle about him being the starting guard. Big press conference, sold a whole bunch of tickets and jerseys. Then they flipped the script and wanted him to come off the bench and he got pissed and said that's not what they bought him there for....

A immature way to handle it but still shady and insulting on their part. That would be like Brooklyn bringing KG over and telling him to backup Humphries.....

I don't remember the Grizzlies promising a starting gig, I'm not saying they didn't but I have no recollection of that and haven't seen it in any articles. There's no doubt however that Memphis signed him as an attraction, he was by far the biggest player to wear their jersey and fan attendance was non existent the year before. The problem is that he was 34 years old and coming off an injury and at the time said he would retire before coming off the bench. Memphis had won 24 games the year before and had the misfortune of playing in a stacked western conference, so the chances of them making a significant jump into the playoffs were slim to none. In 2009-2010 the 8th seed in the west won 50 games, so it made more sense for Memphis to develop the younger Conley then it did for them to try to ride Iverson to a title. He was upset about coming off the bench so after playing only THREE games he quit on the Grizzlies (keep in mind they were one of the only teams willing to make him a legit offer) then made his way to Philly where he proceeded to put up worse numbers than Conley. On top of all of this there were numerous rumors that he was a heavy gambler and an alcoholic.

Iverson might have been blackballed a bit but he brought a lot of it on himself and in my opinion the article posted by the OP dismisses a lot of what he did. To quote Iverson:


I realize my actions contributed to my early departure from the NBA, should God provide me another opportunity I will give it my all. ... My dream has always been to complete my legacy in the NBA.

This was part of his response after the Mavs offered him a D-League deal to help him get back into the league.

In my opinion diminishing skills + inflated ego + alcoholism + heavy gambling + demands to be a starter = no future in the NBA. I could be wrong, maybe all of the rumors were false, and maybe he did get blackballed but I personally just don't see it.

Tony_Starks
02-28-2014, 08:48 PM
I don't remember the Grizzlies promising a starting gig, I'm not saying they didn't but I have no recollection of that and haven't seen it in any articles. There's no doubt however that Memphis signed him as an attraction, he was by far the biggest player to wear their jersey and fan attendance was non existent the year before. The problem is that he was 34 years old and coming off an injury and at the time said he would retire before coming off the bench. Memphis had won 24 games the year before and had the misfortune of playing in a stacked western conference, so the chances of them making a significant jump into the playoffs were slim to none. In 2009-2010 the 8th seed in the west won 50 games, so it made more sense for Memphis to develop the younger Conley then it did for them to try to ride Iverson to a title. He was upset about coming off the bench so after playing only THREE games he quit on the Grizzlies (keep in mind they were one of the only teams willing to make him a legit offer) then made his way to Philly where he proceeded to put up worse numbers than Conley. On top of all of this there were numerous rumors that he was a heavy gambler and an alcoholic.

Iverson might have been blackballed a bit but he brought a lot of it on himself and in my opinion the article posted by the OP dismisses a lot of what he did. To quote Iverson:



This was part of his response after the Mavs offered him a D-League deal to help him get back into the league.

In my opinion diminishing skills + inflated ego + alcoholism + heavy gambling + demands to be a starter = no future in the NBA. I could be wrong, maybe all of the rumors were false, and maybe he did get blackballed but I personally just don't see it.


He contributed to it sure but the fact is I've never seen a former MVP get treated the way he did, regardless of decline. Injuries and age played a role as well but there's no way you can tell me a old AI wasn't still better than half the journeyman guards that routinely get picked up. As I said after the Memphis debacle he didn't demand to be a starter anymore, he just wanted to play.

The fact is he rubbed a lot of execs the wrong way because of his "keep it real" attitude and they hated what he represented. They tolerated it as long as they were making money off him but as soon as they had new talent to market that wouldn't cause them any headaches they kicked him to the curb....

TheMightyHumph
02-28-2014, 08:48 PM
In Detroit he had no choice he eas traded there. Then Memphis signed him as a FA and made this whole big spectacle about him being the starting guard. Big press conference, sold a whole bunch of tickets and jerseys. Then they flipped the script and wanted him to come off the bench and he got pissed and said that's not what they bought him there for....

A immature way to handle it but still shady and insulting on their part. That would be like Brooklyn bringing KG over and telling him to backup Humphries.....

You have a link saying Grizzlies promised him a starting position?

Hawkeye15
02-28-2014, 08:58 PM
when you are 5'11", with a very suspect jumper, you are toast when your athletic ability declines.

Always liked watching Iverson play in his prime, but I really don't care one way or another if he was overlooked late in his career.

randyorton33
02-28-2014, 09:04 PM
I don't remember the Grizzlies promising a starting gig, I'm not saying they didn't but I have no recollection of that and haven't seen it in any articles. There's no doubt however that Memphis signed him as an attraction, he was by far the biggest player to wear their jersey and fan attendance was non existent the year before. The problem is that he was 34 years old and coming off an injury and at the time said he would retire before coming off the bench. Memphis had won 24 games the year before and had the misfortune of playing in a stacked western conference, so the chances of them making a significant jump into the playoffs were slim to none. In 2009-2010 the 8th seed in the west won 50 games, so it made more sense for Memphis to develop the younger Conley then it did for them to try to ride Iverson to a title. He was upset about coming off the bench so after playing only THREE games he quit on the Grizzlies (keep in mind they were one of the only teams willing to make him a legit offer) then made his way to Philly where he proceeded to put up worse numbers than Conley. On top of all of this there were numerous rumors that he was a heavy gambler and an alcoholic.

Iverson might have been blackballed a bit but he brought a lot of it on himself and in my opinion the article posted by the OP dismisses a lot of what he did. To quote Iverson:



This was part of his response after the Mavs offered him a D-League deal to help him get back into the league.

In my opinion diminishing skills + inflated ego + alcoholism + heavy gambling + demands to be a starter = no future in the NBA. I could be wrong, maybe all of the rumors were false, and maybe he did get blackballed but I personally just don't see it.


I understand what your saying bro, I am in no way saying he was angel, he was far from one. I like the way you sum it up, he did have issues but a lot of guys that were a lot worse players than he was that did a lot worse got back in the league....AI was just to influential so they blackballed him and got rid of him.

Its crazy to me how just two years before leaving the league AI was averaging 26.4 ppg in 2008 for the Nuggets (3rd in the league) and he was gone never to be seen again in 2010.

Do other players game, drink and party a lot ? Much worse than AI..... in his case he was a former MVP and he wasn't treated like one, everyone was always searching for him to eff up or making him the scape goat.

The Mavs offer was just insulting....your talking about a top 30 player ever, the d-league is for Rafer Alston and Mike James.

Watch AI's three games in Memphis on YouTube in limited minutes he had 18, 12 and 15 points I think... the dude was working his *** off that summer because he knew, the competitor that he was he had to prove people wrong. Ironic how when he started working out and training it was far too late.

tmacsc2
02-28-2014, 09:19 PM
He blackballed himself outta the league wanting starting minutes and money. When in reality he wasn't his old self at all anymore, he didn't deserve a starters contract or minutes..... And he wouldn't even come off the bench or start in the D league and that was a couple of years ago when someone offered him a D- league contract.

lvlheaded
02-28-2014, 09:25 PM
It bothers me that this article makes it sound as if Iverson was willing to take any role with any team and was getting black balled. I vaguely remember the Knicks offering him a bench role and him refusing cause he wanted a bigger role. He was great at his peak, but he refused to accept his decline gracefully by refusing to be relegated to a bench role. It's nonsensical to say it's "disrespectful" to offer him bench roles and lesser contracts when he was clearly running on fumes, as shown by his displays in Detroit and Memphis.

Did the league have something to do with it? I don't disagree that they played a part. They wanted to move on to a more clean cut imagine that Iverson didn't fit. But entirely on them, it's is not (Yoda voice)

JasonJohnHorn
02-28-2014, 11:04 PM
He blackballed himself.

This article is bogus. "They" is ESPN? Stephen A Smith would go on ESPN and kiss Iverson's @$$ every chance he got.

Executives blackballed him? The dude made over 150 million. That is blackballing? Sign me up!

If a team doesn't want a guy with a weapons charge on their roster, I'm cool with that.

Look, this guy dug his own hole. And he was awful on defense.


Dallas offered him a try out and wanted to see what he could do, but when they mentioned the D-League he refused. That is his ego getting in the way of him playing ball. That was his problem ON the court.


Once in a generation talent? He was talented, but give me John Stockton or Chris Paul over Iverson an day of the week.

Asik's better
02-28-2014, 11:09 PM
He blackballed himself.

This article is bogus. "They" is ESPN? Stephen A Smith would go on ESPN and kiss Iverson's @$$ every chance he got.

Executives blackballed him? The dude made over 150 million. That is blackballing? Sign me up!

If a team doesn't want a guy with a weapons charge on their roster, I'm cool with that.

Look, this guy dug his own hole. And he was awful on defense.


Dallas offered him a try out and wanted to see what he could do, but when they mentioned the D-League he refused. That is his ego getting in the way of him playing ball. That was his problem ON the court.


Once in a generation talent? He was talented, but give me John Stockton or Chris Paul over Iverson an day of the week.
This

Alayla
02-28-2014, 11:10 PM
ummm no,i remember seeing him when he was with the grizzlies and he was clearly done

He was not exactly in basketball shape at that point and only played for that team for 3 days having no time whatsoever to get in a grove with them Granted its his own stupid fault but still.

One thing people need to understand with Iversons late Carrier and epically with the pistons where btw because of there personnel he was a AWFUL fit, Is that just because he wasn't ALLEN IVERSON the superstar anymore
He was still able to put up points quickly and was still faster than 80% of the guards in the league at the time
If guys like fisher can still play there should have been room for AI and under NO situation should he have been benched in favor of Stucky.

all that being said he wasn't exactly the most mature person and definitely wasn't blackballed out.
Lets not tarnish what little name the man has left to look back on by being bitter please for the sake of 76ers fans everywhere lock this thread.

Alayla
02-28-2014, 11:13 PM
He blackballed himself.

This article is bogus. "They" is ESPN? Stephen A Smith would go on ESPN and kiss Iverson's @$$ every chance he got.

Executives blackballed him? The dude made over 150 million. That is blackballing? Sign me up!

If a team doesn't want a guy with a weapons charge on their roster, I'm cool with that.

Look, this guy dug his own hole. And he was awful on defense.


Dallas offered him a try out and wanted to see what he could do, but when they mentioned the D-League he refused. That is his ego getting in the way of him playing ball. That was his problem ON the court.


Once in a generation talent? He was talented, but give me John Stockton or Chris Paul over Iverson an day of the week.

Those 2 do not even play the same position as Iverson for one.
And for 2 lets be honest here Comparing Chris Paul to ANYONE at the point not named Magic at this point is unfair and frankly a disrespect to Paul

Alayla
02-28-2014, 11:17 PM
It bothers me that this article makes it sound as if Iverson was willing to take any role with any team and was getting black balled. I vaguely remember the Knicks offering him a bench role and him refusing cause he wanted a bigger role. He was great at his peak, but he refused to accept his decline gracefully by refusing to be relegated to a bench role. It's nonsensical to say it's "disrespectful" to offer him bench roles and lesser contracts when he was clearly running on fumes, as shown by his displays in Detroit and Memphis.

Did the league have something to do with it? I don't disagree that they played a part. They wanted to move on to a more clean cut imagine that Iverson didn't fit. But entirely on them, it's is not (Yoda voice)

But that is the whole problem, In detorit he was on a team where he didn't fit and wasn't at all wanted and still put up 17 points per game even when put on the bench that is alot better than alot of the players riding the bench. While only getting 12 ppg in his 3 games in Memphis he shot almost 60% you can put a guy in a *lesser role* without him being on the bench and at that time Iverson was clearly still a starter in this league.

Alayla
02-28-2014, 11:25 PM
I understand what your saying bro, I am in no way saying he was angel, he was far from one. I like the way you sum it up, he did have issues but a lot of guys that were a lot worse players than he was that did a lot worse got back in the league....AI was just to influential so they blackballed him and got rid of him.

Its crazy to me how just two years before leaving the league AI was averaging 26.4 ppg in 2008 for the Nuggets (3rd in the league) and he was gone never to be seen again in 2010.

Do other players game, drink and party a lot ? Much worse than AI..... in his case he was a former MVP and he wasn't treated like one, everyone was always searching for him to eff up or making him the scape goat.

The Mavs offer was just insulting....your talking about a top 30 player ever, the d-league is for Rafer Alston and Mike James.

Watch AI's three games in Memphis on YouTube in limited minutes he had 18, 12 and 15 points I think... the dude was working his *** off that summer because he knew, the competitor that he was he had to prove people wrong. Ironic how when he started working out and training it was far too late.

This is the part that is truely sad. He really did get traded to the WORST possible team in the league for who he was the pistons where a slow Aging team. Where Iverson was an up tempo guard with a skill-set based solely on quickness the fit just wasn't very good

That all being said i think even had he stayed on the nuggets that year we are talking about 20-22 PPG on meh shooting that year he wasn't going to be an allstar level player one way or another his reckless play was getting to his body and he was showing signs of breaking down.

TheMightyHumph
02-28-2014, 11:41 PM
This is the part that is truely sad. He really did get traded to the WORST possible team in the league for who he was the pistons where a slow Aging team. Where Iverson was an up tempo guard with a skill-set based solely on quickness the fit just wasn't very good

That all being said i think even had he stayed on the nuggets that year we are talking about 20-22 PPG on meh shooting that year he wasn't going to be an allstar level player one way or another his reckless play was getting to his body and he was showing signs of breaking down.

You are talking stats. Stats have nothing to do with the end AI's career. NBA teams are NATURALLY looking for a player that will make their team better. AI's stats (and especially his attitude) did not make an NBA better at the end of his career.

WHY is it so hard to understand that? Unless you are one of AI's probably illegitimate children.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 12:03 AM
You are talking stats. Stats have nothing to do with the end AI's career. NBA teams are NATURALLY looking for a player that will make their team better. AI's stats (and especially his attitude) did not make an NBA better at the end of his career.

WHY is it so hard to understand that? Unless you are one of AI's probably illegitimate children.

For this i will just show you a part of that article

Allen Iverson had every reason in the world to be starting over anyone. He was one season removed from averages of 26 ppg and 8 apg on a 50 win team and now was being disrespected, the media loved it! Iverson was honest, he did not and was not going to come off the bench because he felt it was disrespectful to even have that thought about him, let alone ask him to actually do it. They pointed to Iverson’s age of 34 and said he needs to come off the bench, but Jason Kidd was still starting, Kevin Garnett was still starting, Vince Carter was still starting, Steve Nash was still starting, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Jermaine O’Neal, Marcus Camby, Shaq, Grant Hill, Tim Duncan all these guys were still starting in the NBA! Why not one of the most accomplished players in league history who just came off a year in which he was having a career year?!

I may not agree with the over arching point of this article but Iverson was very much a Star player in the league at the time Stats or no stats the man had a skill-set that was both rare and valuable.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 12:13 AM
This all being said for the love of all that is holy PLEASE stop it with this thread. its legitimately painful that this even exists its going to cause more fights and taint the mans legacy even more than it already has been LET THE MAN RETIRE IN PEACE!!! -_- picture if this was your career and you where in his position how would any of you feel if your retirement wasn't appreciated because millions of people where arugeing about if the end of your time was fair or not. He wasn't blackballed but yes his situation was still unfortunate lets leave it at that.

DudeItsZoltan
03-01-2014, 12:56 AM
to anyone who actually questions Iverson's greatness, I point to one game, that as a die-hard Lakers fan will always stick with me. In 2001 the Lakers put together the most dominant post-season ever. Swept Portland, the team that took us to 7 games the year before. Swept Sacramento, the team that took us to five games the year before and would take us to 7 the following year. Swept San Antonio, the team we avoided the year before and people said we got lucky. Swept them into oblivion. Enter the Finals against a clearly over matched Philadelphia team. Game 1, Allen Iverson by himself took down a damn juggernaut, highlighted by his crossover of Tyronn Lue, breaking the kids ankles and then stepping over him. The Lakers obviously recovered and took the series in 5, but that game I will never forget. Easily one of the greatest of all time, easily blackballed by the NBA. But with his retirement official, I'm not worried about his jersey getting retired, I wanna know if he's going into the Hall of Fame. IF he's truly been blackballed, then I think that would be the height of it, keeping him out of the Hall!

randyorton33
03-01-2014, 12:57 AM
I guarantee you Iverson would still be in the league if he was playing in Mike D'Antoni's offense near the end of his career. Did you know that Eddie Jordan was running the PRINCETON offense of all offenses in his final year in Philly.....that offense is the worst offense for a player like Iverson, even Kobe would struggle to get shots off in it.

kobe4thewinbang
03-01-2014, 01:03 AM
Wasn't a fan of the guy, but as I saw how dirty and corrupt the NBA was I realized this dude got blackballed out of the NBA....his jersey is retired tomorrow but really he should be on a roster somewhere.

The truth: http://www.balldontstop.com/blackballed-the-media-and-nba-forced-allen-iverson-into-retirement/

What you guys think?No, he was not blackballed. He's a washed-up player with a mountainous ego. He should have signed with a team in the D-League and tried to impress an NBA team into calling him up. The dude acts like he got the 76ers to the Finals every season AND the Nuggets. He should still be playing, especially since the league calls more fouls these days, but his ego said otherwise.

DudeItsZoltan
03-01-2014, 01:04 AM
I guarantee you Iverson would still be in the league if he was playing in Mike D'Antoni's offense near the end of his career. Did you know that Eddie Jordan was running the PRINCETON offense of all offenses in his final year in Philly.....that offense is the worst offense for a player like Iverson, even Kobe would struggle to get shots off in it.

Princeton offense is garbage, its what got Mike Brown fired after a 1-4 start. Unfortunately, D'Antoni's offense is garbage too...

kobe4thewinbang
03-01-2014, 01:11 AM
D'Antoni's offense is garbage too...It's exciting fluff when the team can actually shoot (i.e. the best Phoenix Suns teams) and has Amare to block Duncan in the paint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5bH9kTyg_M

DudeItsZoltan
03-01-2014, 01:20 AM
It's exciting fluff when the team can actually shoot (i.e. the best Phoenix Suns teams) and has Amare to block Duncan in the paint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5bH9kTyg_M

After watching him for almost two years, I'm just tired of his stubbornness and his damn crazy rotations. Also don't like how he buries players like Jamison and Kaman for no apparent reason. I keep reading how Jordan Hill and Pau Gasol are leaving because of the coach. I think he caught lightning with that Phoenix team, they were fun to watch, but he has been unable to repeat that since. A little bit with the pre-Melo Knicks. I definitely miss Phil lol

sillyphilly76
03-01-2014, 01:25 AM
As a Sixer fan, I cant believe anyone would take this seriously. Iverson was in no way black Balled. His own stubbornness to be a team player is what did. Great great Individual talent. And had the talent to be maybe the best ever. But Iverson never wanted to conform.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 01:31 AM
to anyone who actually questions iverson's greatness, i point to one game, that as a die-hard lakers fan will always stick with me. In 2001 the lakers put together the most dominant post-season ever. Swept portland, the team that took us to 7 games the year before. Swept sacramento, the team that took us to five games the year before and would take us to 7 the following year. Swept san antonio, the team we avoided the year before and people said we got lucky. Swept them into oblivion. Enter the finals against a clearly over matched philadelphia team. Game 1, allen iverson by himself took down a damn juggernaut, highlighted by his crossover of tyronn lue, breaking the kids ankles and then stepping over him. The lakers obviously recovered and took the series in 5, but that game i will never forget. Easily one of the greatest of all time, easily blackballed by the nba. But with his retirement official, i'm not worried about his jersey getting retired, i wanna know if he's going into the hall of fame. If he's truly been blackballed, then i think that would be the height of it, keeping him out of the hall!

one game??????????????????

KingPosey
03-01-2014, 01:31 AM
AI blackballed himself from the game. His skills were diminishing and he refused to adapt his role due to his ego and he was cranky on top of it. I don't want to hear the AI apologists and defenders either that was absolutely the case.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 02:12 AM
Well I for one am just glad I got to see AI actually play. As we delve deeper into the new stat geek era he will undoubtedly be more and more forgotten and disrespected but those of us that watched him know what time it is.

This guy was all out every single night and the most unstoppable player of his era next to Shaq.

He was really exciting a 6 nothing guard shouldn't have been able to do any of that.
Also... man i will never forget the Wheres my Coach moment i wanted to Cry.

Chronz
03-01-2014, 03:47 AM
It's exciting fluff when the team can actually shoot (i.e. the best Phoenix Suns teams) and has Amare to block Duncan in the paint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5bH9kTyg_M

Are you implying that Amare had a positive defensive influence on his team?

Chronz
03-01-2014, 03:49 AM
Well I for one am just glad I got to see AI actually play. As we delve deeper into the new stat geek era he will undoubtedly be more and more forgotten and disrespected but those of us that watched him know what time it is.

This guy was all out every single night and the most unstoppable player of his era next to Shaq.

What time it is? Those of us? Who and what exactly are your referring to? I've probably seen AI more than you have and I didn't need advanced stats to know he was overrated during his time. Old school traditionalist saw the flaws in his game, that "advanced stats" bear that out isn't a coincidence IMO, rather, confirmation of our beliefs.

Sadds The Gr8
03-01-2014, 04:00 AM
2001 he was the best player in the NBA. Up untill 2007 there was not a single player in the L who could guard Iverson or "shut him down", he averaged 28 a game for his career till 2009, he was pretty effin dominant if you ask me.

Definitely the best guard in the L in the past decade behind Kobe.

Iverson wasn't the best player in the league at any point...

Chronz
03-01-2014, 04:04 AM
Those 2 do not even play the same position as Iverson for one.
And for 2 lets be honest here Comparing Chris Paul to ANYONE at the point not named Magic at this point is unfair and frankly a disrespect to Paul

Thats kind of his point. Those guys played the position they could adequately defend, hell some would argue they excelled. But AI wanted to be a SG despite not having the build for it. He wasn't blackballed, he just played a position that relied on athletic ability more than shooting/passing prowess.

Chronz
03-01-2014, 04:05 AM
2001 he was the best player in the NBA. Up untill 2007 there was not a single player in the L who could guard Iverson or "shut him down", he averaged 28 a game for his career till 2009, he was pretty effin dominant if you ask me.

Definitely the best guard in the L in the past decade behind Kobe.

I dont know of a single great player that could be defended by a single person. Defense is a team effort and I saw AI get shut down plenty. That depends on your interpretation of shut down but him scoring alot of points on even more shots isn't my idea of dominance.

Shlumpledink
03-01-2014, 04:09 AM
i tried reading the article, but i wasn't seeing anything that looked like evidence.

Chronz
03-01-2014, 04:12 AM
He contributed to it sure but the fact is I've never seen a former MVP get treated the way he did, regardless of decline.
If you limit it to former MVP's then maybe but lots of former greats got that sort of treatment, some far greater than AI. And with AI, it wasn't even the team that enjoyed the splendors of his prime days so its more understandable. Its not like AI won the MVP for their team.


Injuries and age played a role as well but there's no way you can tell me a old AI wasn't still better than half the journeyman guards that routinely get picked up. As I said after the Memphis debacle he didn't demand to be a starter anymore, he just wanted to play.

The fact is he rubbed a lot of execs the wrong way because of his "keep it real" attitude and they hated what he represented. They tolerated it as long as they were making money off him but as soon as they had new talent to market that wouldn't cause them any headaches they kicked him to the curb....
Facts are, had he accepted his role, the kind of role that would actually help a team, he would have lasted abit longer. Its hard to say how long though, considering he was rather pedestrian in his final days with Philly.


He contributed to it sure but the fact is I've never seen a former MVP get treated the way he did, regardless of decline.
If you limit it to former MVP's then maybe but lots of former greats got that sort of treatment, some far greater than AI. And with AI, it wasn't even the team that enjoyed the splendors of his prime days so its more understandable. Its not like AI won the MVP for their team.


Injuries and age played a role as well but there's no way you can tell me a old AI wasn't still better than half the journeyman guards that routinely get picked up. As I said after the Memphis debacle he didn't demand to be a starter anymore, he just wanted to play.

The fact is he rubbed a lot of execs the wrong way because of his "keep it real" attitude and they hated what he represented. They tolerated it as long as they were making money off him but as soon as they had new talent to market that wouldn't cause them any headaches they kicked him to the curb....
Facts are, had he accepted his role, the kind of role that would actually help a team, he would have lasted abit longer. Its hard to say how long though, considering he was rather pedestrian in his final days with Philly.

Duncan = Donkey
03-01-2014, 04:14 AM
haha Iverson, mr 27 shots a game. dude knew how to chuck with the best of them. Broke.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 09:32 AM
AI doesnt even get enough credit for how tough he was either. It took a lot for the man to miss a game, even a reg season game that didnt natter. Now you see players getting hurt left and right who dont even play half as hard or take a third of the beating AI took. There is no way that AI would have missed a game for a broken nose or because he wanted to rest 20 games into the season either. His heart was unmatched on the floor no one left it out there more and he embraced competition unlike the majority of star these days. There will never be another Iverson in this league

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 09:35 AM
Iverson wasn't the best player in the league at any point...

the 2001 MVP award begs to differ

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 09:36 AM
haha Iverson, mr 27 shots a game. dude knew how to chuck with the best of them. Broke.

broke for a few more years then he comes into something like 10-20 mil

ewing
03-01-2014, 09:56 AM
Did AI get blackballed? Maybe but i don't think was b/c he wore baggy pants. It happens to a lot of players. AI was an older guy with diminishing skills and a drinking problem, who had trouble taking a backseat to anyone. Was he good enough to get a job? Sure, but GM's decided he was too much trouble. Look at Delonte. I think Delonte is an average starting PG in the NBA but dude can't get a job b/c he has given teams reason not to trust him.

Sadds The Gr8
03-01-2014, 11:59 AM
the 2001 MVP award begs to differ
Mvp doesn't mean best player. He was never better than shaq or Duncan at any point back then

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 12:02 PM
are you really comparing two 7 footers to a 5'11 guard? regardless he was the best player in the league in 2001 thats what the MVP is for.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 12:07 PM
Mvp doesn't mean best player. He was never better than shaq or Duncan at any point back then

Lol.. okay okay how about 05 -06 33 PPG 7.4 APG 44% FG id say that Season is pretty hard too argue with who was better that year?

Kobe? i mean he Carried a bigger Burden on his team and had better stats in a better conference but like who else? even then the was a decent argument for eather one at the time.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 12:14 PM
People talk like Iverson was a career failure who had one positive season but if you take his stats and his Awards and his accomplishments and gave them to a name like Steve Francis People would talk positively about them all the time.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 12:19 PM
Thats kind of his point. Those guys played the position they could adequately defend, hell some would argue they excelled. But AI wanted to be a SG despite not having the build for it. He wasn't blackballed, he just played a position that relied on athletic ability more than shooting/passing prowess.

Actually that was a choice by Larry Brown who once said
The other team is going to have alot more problems with us then we are going to have with them.

And in fairness while never being a good defender there where points in his career where he was Average or close too it and when your the best Scorer in the NBA thats enough.

Im not one of those people who pretend he didn't have faults.
Even Gaping issues with his game but his scoring at his peak much more than made up for that and its something that people too this day still choose to ignore.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 12:25 PM
haha Iverson, mr 27 shots a game. dude knew how to chuck with the best of them. Broke.

Only one season in his whole Carrer did he ever take 27 shots a game and its when he was surrounded with Defensive role players.

Alayla
03-01-2014, 12:29 PM
are you really comparing two 7 footers to a 5'11 guard? regardless he was the best player in the league in 2001 thats what the MVP is for.

Unfortunately that is the extent people will go too in order to discredit Allen Iverson his fans and supporters just need to stop talking about him all together because his haters are never going to quite down its best just to not talk about him for a decade or two and actually give people time to miss him because otherwise he will never be seen in a positive light.

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 12:49 PM
Unfortunately that is the extent people will go too in order to discredit Allen Iverson his fans and supporters just need to stop talking about him all together because his haters are never going to quite down its best just to not talk about him for a decade or two and actually give people time to miss him because otherwise he will never be seen in a positive light.

not talking about him isn't going to stop his reputation from becoming worse. the advance of stats is going to take care of that whether we talk about him or not.

Sadds The Gr8
03-01-2014, 01:13 PM
Lol.. okay okay how about 05 -06 33 PPG 7.4 APG 44% FG id say that Season is pretty hard too argue with who was better that year?

Kobe? i mean he Carried a bigger Burden on his team and had better stats in a better conference but like who else? even then the was a decent argument for eather one at the time.
well u answered that for me...

sillyphilly76
03-01-2014, 01:18 PM
Iverson was not perfect. But he was way more of a game changer and talent then Kobe ever was. Kobe thought he was the man. A guy who could lead a team to a Championship basically all on his own with a few other decent to marginally average players. Kobe failed big time. Right after he forced Shaq out of L.A., what did Kobe do ? He led 3 straight seasons of Laker Basketball to under a 500 record. Kobe has always needed that second prime Star player to do anything. Iverson took a way less then average Sixer squad to the finals. Yes they lost to L.A. But that's because they had two great players. Iverson had Hill, Mckie, Snow, and a super old Mutombo. Kobe could have never taken that group to the finals.

SteveZissou
03-01-2014, 01:19 PM
Shared by many racists.

Lol

SteveZissou
03-01-2014, 01:20 PM
How the hell is wearing du-rags, baggy clothes a bad thing? He can wear whatever he wants....you see what the new school players are wearing? Nerd glasses, dressing like scholars from the 50's lol....at least he is true to himself.

I hated Iverson's guts and all this ish about him too, but I was super ignorant that time and a lot of fans are still.

Because it is a place of employment. Do other places of employment let employees wear whatever the hell they want? Grow up.

meloman1592
03-01-2014, 01:27 PM
The disrespect this man continues to receive smh. AI fans just need to ignore the blasphemy

beyourself
03-01-2014, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't want him on my team either. In the early 2000's if I desperately needed a scorer, maybe. But let's not forget he was a chucker who made everybody around him worse.

And put a shirt and tie on you goon. This is the NBA not the hood.

meloman1592
03-01-2014, 01:28 PM
Because it is a place of employment. Do other places of employment let employees wear whatever the hell they want? Grow up.

Its a bad thing in your mind because you're associating it with a thug image.

beyourself
03-01-2014, 01:30 PM
Its a bad thing in your mind because you're associating it with a thug image.

AI was a thug.

KingPosey
03-01-2014, 01:36 PM
broke for a few more years then he comes into something like 10-20 mil

He actually has I think 25 mill that he can't touch for a decade or something.

meloman1592
03-01-2014, 01:39 PM
AI was a thug.

You clearly don't know what a thug is. Ai was just an honest rebel

beyourself
03-01-2014, 01:41 PM
You clearly don't know what a thug is. Ai was just an honest rebel

Ok you win.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 01:44 PM
He actually has I think 25 mill that he can't touch for a decade or something.

i think its when he turns 40. not positive though

blams
03-01-2014, 01:53 PM
You shouldn't be. I'm sure its a sentiment shared by many.

Shared by many racists.
That had nothing to do with race. Until you brought it up.

DudeItsZoltan
03-01-2014, 02:17 PM
I still think sometimes people put a little too much stock in stats. At some point we stop talking about what we see on the court, what we actually watch, and just break down numbers. Stats say Iverson was a chucker, with a low FG% and sub-par to average defense. Yet watching him, you saw a guy with HEART (something that is severely lacking in today's game), wouldn't back down from anybody (as I referenced about Game 1 of the 2001 Finals), who went hard on every single play (unlike someone like say James Harden), and yes, stood up to the NBA. He was right when he said NBA Cares is fake. Most of those players only care about their wallets, and if they truly cared wouldn't have to read off of cue cards for your commercials. The NBA was trying to perpetuate an image that wasn't real, and Iverson had no problem calling them out on it. Last part, I truly despise the "chucker" label. I'm pretty sure if AI ever had a true post player like Shaq or Duncan, and maybe another perimeter scorer, his shots would go down. But he's like Kobe too, shooting a lot is just his nature. I just can't believe so many here would just dismiss him like they have

beyourself
03-01-2014, 02:25 PM
I still think sometimes people put a little too much stock in stats. At some point we stop talking about what we see on the court, what we actually watch, and just break down numbers. Stats say Iverson was a chucker, with a low FG% and sub-par to average defense. Yet watching him, you saw a guy with HEART (something that is severely lacking in today's game), wouldn't back down from anybody (as I referenced about Game 1 of the 2001 Finals), who went hard on every single play (unlike someone like say James Harden), and yes, stood up to the NBA. He was right when he said NBA Cares is fake. Most of those players only care about their wallets, and if they truly cared wouldn't have to read off of cue cards for your commercials. The NBA was trying to perpetuate an image that wasn't real, and Iverson had no problem calling them out on it. Last part, I truly despise the "chucker" label. I'm pretty sure if AI ever had a true post player like Shaq or Duncan, and maybe another perimeter scorer, his shots would go down. But he's like Kobe too, shooting a lot is just his nature. I just can't believe so many here would just dismiss him like they have

I saw him. He wasn't that good of a player.

beyourself
03-01-2014, 02:27 PM
Iverson's stats by year

9-22
10-24
10-25
11-27
9-23
9-23
10-24
11-25
8-20

How can you show your face in the locker room? How can you go to practice? When everybody on the team knows you just keep shooting and not making your shots?

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 02:39 PM
i think its when he turns 40. not positive though

It's $30 mil. It can't be touched until he is 55 years old. At that point, his ex-wife gets half.

cubbie92
03-01-2014, 02:46 PM
Seemed to me like a poorly written article. It was too long and driven by emotion more than any facts. The theme seemed to be less about Iverson and more about "powerful white men are keeping the black man down" as the article went along. Not to mention there's plenty of delusion being tossed around...


In 2012 Allen Iverson was bringing in the game ball at the Philadelphia 76ers vs Boston Celtics in game 6 of the East-Semis. He received a standing ovation that lasted for about 2 minutes, the crowd in Philly was showing love to their hero, it was a bitter sweet moment because everyone knew Allen Iverson should have been getting introduced in the starting line ups tonight.

It's hard to take someone seriously when they make a statement like that and honestly seem to believe it.

SteveZissou
03-01-2014, 02:54 PM
it has nothing to do with accociation of clothes to a specific group of individuals. I have nothing against hip-hop cl

Sactown
03-01-2014, 03:05 PM
AI wasn't black balled he was a cancerous moron who constantly played me first basketball and had no concept of professional dress code edicit.. obviously that talent wouldn't be rejected if there wasn't a reason to reject it.. AI was never going to take a back seat because of his ego and was foolish with his money.. hard to feel bad for this *** hat...

kobe4thewinbang
03-01-2014, 03:27 PM
Are you implying that Amare had a positive defensive influence on his team?He's no Dwight, but he's no Gasol either. If you catch my drift.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 03:35 PM
]AI wasn't black balled he was a cancerous moron who constantly played me first basketbal[/B]l and had no concept of professional dress code edicit.. obviously that talent wouldn't be rejected if there wasn't a reason to reject it.. AI was never going to take a back seat because of his ego and was foolish with his money.. hard to feel bad for this *** hat...

false. and do you you really care what a player dresses like on his way to and from a game? did you not see what Kaepernick wore after the playoff loss?

SMH!
03-01-2014, 03:49 PM
PSD hates AI, wonder what they will say when he is inducted into the HOF first ballot. :clap:

beyourself
03-01-2014, 03:49 PM
false. and do you you really care what a player dresses like on his way to and from a game? did you not see what Kaepernick wore after the playoff loss?

Hell yea people care how he dresses. This is the NBA. You are walking into David Stern's house. He's not gonna let you turn it into a cesspool. So put a shirt and tie on.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 03:51 PM
yea bcuz all these dudes in the league now wear a shirt and tie right. there was also no dress code when he came into the league

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 03:56 PM
All I know is that they are showing AI's game one against the Lakers in the Finals. Still by FAR the single best Finals performance I've ever watched. 48 points? When he stepped over Lue?

It's ridiculous especially when you factor in Philly had no business being there and that's the ONLY playoff game Lakers lost that entire run. They went 15-1.

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 03:59 PM
PSD hates AI, wonder what they will say when he is inducted into the HOF first ballot. :clap:

The usual script. He was a chucker. Inefficient. Selfish. Overrated..... blah,blah, blah.........

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 04:30 PM
All I know is that they are showing AI's game one against the Lakers in the Finals. Still by FAR the single best Finals performance I've ever watched. 48 points? When he stepped over Lue?

It's ridiculous especially when you factor in Philly had no business being there and that's the ONLY playoff game Lakers lost that entire run. They went 15-1.

Hooray!!!! Iverson's team won a Finals game. Give him back all his money.

bagwell368
03-01-2014, 04:38 PM
AI wasn't black balled he was a cancerous moron who constantly played me first basketball and had no concept of professional dress code edicit.. obviously that talent wouldn't be rejected if there wasn't a reason to reject it.. AI was never going to take a back seat because of his ego and was foolish with his money.. hard to feel bad for this *** hat...

x2

bagwell368
03-01-2014, 04:41 PM
PSD hates AI, wonder what they will say when he is inducted into the HOF first ballot. :clap:

Fame != (not equal) quality

Divisive, selfish, low percentage volume scorer - easily one of the 10 worst players in NBA history if you are talking about being used as an example to emulate or to raise the level of his team. Utter failure as a player and utter zero as a person.

/sucks

Teeboy1487
03-01-2014, 04:49 PM
He was not blackballed. There were teams willing to let him come off the bench in a sixth man role. He refused to take a bench role hence why his career pretty much ended.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 04:50 PM
lol the AI haters are thw worst ones around here. no appreciation for a future hall of famer what so ever. they are gonna be so mad when that day comes

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 04:54 PM
lol the AI haters are thw worst ones around here. no appreciation for a future hall of famer what so ever. they are gonna be so mad when that day comes

Iverson will only attend the HOF ceremony if it's an open bar.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 05:01 PM
good one.

albertajaysfan
03-01-2014, 05:11 PM
What ever happened to taking ownership of your own life?

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 05:11 PM
lol the AI haters are thw worst ones around here. no appreciation for a future hall of famer what so ever. they are gonna be so mad when that day comes


It is what it is man. I'm sure when he gets there they'll find a way to discredit that too. That's what haters do.....

albertajaysfan
03-01-2014, 05:13 PM
It is what it is man. I'm sure when he gets there they'll find a way to discredit that too. That's what haters do.....

I loved watching the guy play. But I also fully understand why he isn't the league. It isn't a mutually exclusive thing.

Him not getting into the HoF would be a travesty but why anyone would truly believe such a thing is possible is amazing.

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 05:46 PM
I honestly wonder what Iverson's career would have looked like if he'd come into the league in this era with social media and advanced stats. Would have been interesting for sure.

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 05:48 PM
You either love him or you hate him. :)

And by that I mean you're either an A.I fanboy or you want to see the man dead.

It's crazy how polarizing he is as a player.

He did a lot of stupid **** in the past, but as a kid growing up, I didn't see any of that. All I cared about was how he performed on the court and I never saw a player who wanted to win or hustled more than A.I.

Watching him play didn't make me want to gun every time I got the ball and curse off the officials.

Instead, watching him play showed me that little guys can be aggressive/tough and make an impact on a game, that hustling every play can help your team win.

With all of the moronic things he's done in the past, to completely discredit the positive impact he's had on the game of basketball is incredibly ignorant...

CP3: "The reason I wear #3 and the way that I play is because of Allen Iverson"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b58pW5XQfrU

Shaq: "Iverson is one of the greatest players to ever play the game, he's in my top 5. He's probably the only player that takes a beating every night like I do".

Vince Carter: "Despite his physical stature, he has the biggest heart in the league. Fearless."

Paul Pierce: "One of the greatest players to ever play the game. For a guy his size to do what he's done is amazing."

Rip Hamilton: "A.I was one of the greatest players and teammates I've ever had, and people in the locker room not just respect him, but know how great he is as a person"

Coach Larry Brown: "He played 48 minutes every game, he tried to win every possession, he played hurt... NOBODY at his size could have accomplished what he's done."


Mutumbo: "I've played 14 years in this league, there's [no other] guy I would put in the same category as Allen Iverson"

Brandon Roy: "He comes to play every night, every game is like a championship to him".

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 05:58 PM
You either love him or you hate him. :)

And by that I mean you're either an A.I fanboy or you want to see the man dead.

It's crazy how polarizing he is as a player.

He did a lot of stupid **** in the past, but as a kid growing up, I didn't see any of that. All I cared about was how he performed on the court and I never saw a player who wanted to win or hustled more than A.I.

Watching him play didn't make me want to gun every time I got the ball and curse off the officials.

Instead, watching him play showed me that little guys can be aggressive/tough and make an impact on a game, that hustling every play can help your team win.

With all of the moronic things he's done in the past, to completely discredit the positive impact he's had on the game of basketball is incredibly ignorant...

CP3: "The reason I wear #3 and the way that I play is because of Allen Iverson"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b58pW5XQfrU

Shaq: "Iverson is one of the greatest players to ever play the game, he's in my top 5. He's probably the only player that takes a beating every night like I do".

Vince Carter: "Despite his physical stature, he has the biggest heart in the league. Fearless."

Paul Pierce: "One of the greatest players to ever play the game. For a guy his size to do what he's done is amazing."

Rip Hamilton: "A.I was one of the greatest players and teammates I've ever had, and people in the locker room not just respect him, but know how great he is as a person"

Coach Larry Brown: "He played 48 minutes every game, he tried to win every possession, he played hurt... NOBODY at his size could have accomplished what he's done."


Mutumbo: "I've played 14 years in this league, there's [no other] guy I would put in the same category as Allen Iverson"

Brandon Roy: "He comes to play every night, every game is like a championship to him".

I dont think anyone debates whether he was an incredible talent or not. What he could do was amazing.

The question was just how much value was he adding by playing how he did.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2014, 06:06 PM
All I know is that they are showing AI's game one against the Lakers in the Finals. Still by FAR the single best Finals performance I've ever watched. 48 points? When he stepped over Lue?

It's ridiculous especially when you factor in Philly had no business being there and that's the ONLY playoff game Lakers lost that entire run. They went 15-1.

perhaps they got out of game shape, or mentality after waiting for weeks for Philly to come out of the east....

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 06:06 PM
I dont think anyone debates whether he was an incredible talent or not. What he could do was amazing.

The question was just how much value was he adding by playing how he did.

I don't know, some people on here make it seem like A.I was nothing but a negative impact on basketball but I just wanted to show how ignorant of a statement that is.

randyorton33
03-01-2014, 06:07 PM
The hate for A.I. is so strong. The point of posting that article was because it addresses the dark perception the NBA and media have intentionally created for Allen Iverson! People are so brainwashed, smh...

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 06:13 PM
I don't know, some people on here make it seem like A.I was nothing but a negative impact on basketball but I just wanted to show how ignorant of a statement that is.

they really do. they all think hes some selfish ball hog but refuse to acknowledge the lack of talent he played with and the fact that he is 41st all time in assists with over 6 per game for his career

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 06:47 PM
The hate for A.I. is so strong. The point of posting that article was because it addresses the dark perception the NBA and media have intentionally created for Allen Iverson! People are so brainwashed, smh...

Haha what frustrates me the most is the hate for him seems to go beyond reason.

Like I don't hate my worst enemies the way some of these people hate A.I.

The guy is a human, he plays basketball for a living, he was dumb in his 20's (who wasn't?), and now he's learned from his mistakes albeit too late.

But if you think this is the same A.I we saw from 2000 I suggest you watch one of his press conferences from the last couple years. I've never seen a grown man cry more.

He definitely realizes the mistakes he's made, and it's a beautiful tragedy that he's come to this realization after his game has already left him. But I respect him as a man now because he truly has changed and it's time for him to move onto the next chapter in his life, as sad as it may be.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 06:59 PM
Haha what frustrates me the most is the hate for him seems to go beyond reason.

Like I don't hate my worst enemies the way some of these people hate A.I.

The guy is a human, he plays basketball for a living, he was dumb in his 20's (who wasn't?), and now he's learned from his mistakes albeit too late.

But if you think this is the same A.I we saw from 2000 I suggest you watch one of his press conferences from the last couple years. I've never seen a grown man cry more.

He definitely realizes the mistakes he's made, and it's a beautiful tragedy that he's come to this realization after his game has already left him. But I respect him as a man now because he truly has changed and it's time for him to move onto the next chapter in his life, as sad as it may be.

I don't hate Iverson. I really enjoyed watching him play.

But the Iverson lovers are as bad as the Iverson haters. They refuse to recognize his many oncourt and attitude flaws.

And if Iverson doesn't make the HOF, I'll be VERY surprised.

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 07:04 PM
I honestly wonder what Iverson's career would have looked like if he'd come into the league in this era with social media and advanced stats. Would have been interesting for sure.


Advanced stat guys would still hate because volume scoring is disrespected by that group.

Socia media would be 50/50. Half would write him off as a thug troublemaker, half would love him because he was a "rebel."

As far as just basketball is concerned with the new rules he'd be completely unstoppable in his prime. He was unstoppable then and that was before the offensive friendly rules about freedom of movement and impeding progress.

If you had to defend him now with basically a hands off approach he'd be 50 points waiting to happen on any given night and would live at the line.

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 07:08 PM
The league had seen enough. He had a bad influence on a entire generation of ballers. Good riddance.

see, comments like this.

CP3, Kyrie, John Wall, Lillard, Deron Williams all had Iverson as their favorite player/influence growing up. These guys turned out alright.

When these guys watched A.I, I doubt the first thing they thought was "Wow I wanna be just like him, gotta go develop a crippling gambling problem now!"

No. They saw a warrior who played through injuries, played every game like his last, and was always the most impactful player on the court despite being the smallest in stature. Oh yeah... and that crossover....

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 07:14 PM
I don't hate Iverson. I really enjoyed watching him play.

But the Iverson lovers are as bad as the Iverson haters. They refuse to recognize his many oncourt and attitude flaws.

And if Iverson doesn't make the HOF, I'll be VERY surprised.

True but I'm not one of them. I think his flaws are what make him so fascinating as a player.

If every player was white-bread Mr.Fundamentals I would ****ing stop watching basketball. I appreciate players like Tim Duncan and Steve Nash just as much as players like A.I. It's entertainment after all and without guys like A.I the NBA would suck, but that's just my opinion.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 07:19 PM
True but I'm not one of them. I think his flaws are what make him so fascinating as a player.

If every player was white-bread Mr.Fundamentals I would ****ing stop watching basketball. I appreciate players like Tim Duncan and Steve Nash just as much as players like A.I. It's entertainment after all and without guys like A.I the NBA would suck, but that's just my opinion.

You must have loved JR Rider, and love JR Smith.

But you agree with me about the other Iverson lovers?

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 07:38 PM
You must have loved JR Rider, and love JR Smith.

No because they didn't give close to the amount of effort that Iverson did for 48 mins night in and night out nor did they care about winning.

I can count on my left hand the times I've seen J.R Smith hustle in my life (and I live in NYC). Whereas Iverson never took a play off.

A.I wasn't a good man to man defender and he gambled too much on defense, but he was playing at 100 mph on both ends of the court every night.

One of his greatest flaws was not giving his all in practice, he felt he didn't have to. That was his ego. He thought he had the god-given ability to be great without putting in the work off the court to truly reach his peak as a player. It's incredible he was as good as he was without putting in the necessary training.

But on the court, his effort was 2nd to none. That was amazing to watch.

Once again, as Coach Larry Brown stated.... "He played 48 minutes every game, he tried to win every possession, he played hurt... NOBODY at his size could have accomplished what he's done."

And that is the problem with people who only look at the stats with A.I. You miss the greatest thing about him and that was how hard he played (in a game) and how much of a beating he took every night. People don't realize how many injuries he had and that he willed his way through because he didn't want to miss any time.

It's a cheesy commercial but it really does show how many injuries this guy played through....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw1pmjQtut0

That is the difference between A.I and a player like J.R Smith or J.R Rider.

He wanted to win so bad and the only way he knew how was to score, one of his flaws, but the team was predicated on his ability to put pressure on a defense with his quickness, penetration, and scoring ability and he played his heart out every night doing so.

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 07:48 PM
they really do. they all think hes some selfish ball hog but refuse to acknowledge the lack of talent he played with and the fact that he is 41st all time in assists with over 6 per game for his career

probably because that's abysmal for someone who had the ball in his hands as much as he did. not only was his usage completely off the charts but he played 40 mins a night.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 07:52 PM
No because they didn't give close to the amount of effort that Iverson did for 48 mins night in and night out nor did they care about winning.

I can count on my left hand the times I've seen J.R Smith hustle in my life (and I live in NYC). Whereas Iverson never took a play off.

A.I wasn't a good man to man defender and he gambled too much on defense, but he was playing at 100 mph on both ends of the court every night.

One of his greatest flaws was not giving his all in practice, he felt he didn't have to. That was his ego. He thought he had the god-given ability to be great without putting in the work off the court to truly reach his peak as a player. It's incredible he was as good as he was without putting in the necessary training.

But on the court, his effort was 2nd to none. That was amazing to watch.

Once again, as Coach Larry Brown stated.... "He played 48 minutes every game, he tried to win every possession, he played hurt... NOBODY at his size could have accomplished what he's done."

And that is the problem with people who only look at the stats with A.I. You miss the greatest thing about him and that was how hard he played (in a game) and how much of a beating he took every night. People don't realize how many injuries he had and that he willed his way through because he didn't want to miss any time.

It's a cheesy commercial but it really does show how many injuries this guy played through....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw1pmjQtut0

That is the difference between A.I and a player like J.R Smith or J.R Rider.

He wanted to win so bad and the only way he knew how was to score, one of his flaws, but the team was predicated on his ability to put pressure on a defense with his quickness, penetration, and scoring ability and he played his heart out every night doing so.

You are kind of contradicting yourself.

If you try hard, you are allowed to break the rules?

Also, if he cared so much about winning, HE WOULD HAVE PRACTICED.

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 07:56 PM
You are kind of contradicting yourself.

If you try hard, you are allowed to break the rules?

Where did I say that? When did I say it was ok to break the rules?

smiddy012
03-01-2014, 08:07 PM
probably because that's abysmal for someone who had the ball in his hands as much as he did. not only was his usage completely off the charts but he played 40 mins a night.

Well when you have to carry the team offensively night in, night out, cuz you're it offensively, overall efficiency is going to drop. This is very obvious to someone who's watched Rose over his career. Its as if "people like you" would prefer for an individual to be more efficient, even if its to the detriment of the team's win column.

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 08:08 PM
You must have loved JR Rider, and love JR Smith.

But you agree with me about the other Iverson lovers?

The mere fact that you put those guys in the same context as Iverson is laughable and basically proves the point of how he's perceived by some.....

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 08:11 PM
see, comments like this.

CP3, Kyrie, John Wall, Lillard, Deron Williams all had Iverson as their favorite player/influence growing up. These guys turned out alright.

When these guys watched A.I, I doubt the first thing they thought was "Wow I wanna be just like him, gotta go develop a crippling gambling problem now!"

No. They saw a warrior who played through injuries, played every game like his last, and was always the most impactful player on the court despite being the smallest in stature. Oh yeah... and that crossover....

And three of those guys I wouldn't want as my point guard but that's neither here nor there.

Saying that such and such a player was your favorite does not mean you truly emulate them. Obviously Chris Pauls game bears no resemblance but what about all the rest of the players who make little impact? Who was their favorite player? Just because a couple successful pros idolized him doesn't mean that others haven't crashed and burned trying to do what he did.

smiddy012
03-01-2014, 08:11 PM
You are kind of contradicting yourself.

If you try hard, you are allowed to break the rules?

Also, if he cared so much about winning, HE WOULD HAVE PRACTICED.

He simply failed to recognize how PRACTICING can help the rest of the team IMO.

I'm not going to blame him for sitting out a practice or two during the season, when he had the workload he did. Look at DRose, and how injury prone he is nowadays, along with (almost, if not) all the other smaller stars, and AI's durability stands out.

D-Leethal
03-01-2014, 08:14 PM
I'm a big AI fan but I remember his sob story about how he has changed, he will accept a bench role etc. and within a week of coming off the bench for Memphis he was already complaining to the media. He obviously has his share of daemons off the court and word spreads fast in the NBA gossip community so I think there are pretty legitimate reasons teams wanted no part of him. Similar to Marbury, there were reasons these guys didn't last as long as they should have in the NBA, their ability to play wasn't the reason teams shyed away from either of them.

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 08:16 PM
Well when you have to carry the team offensively night in, night out, cuz you're it offensively, overall efficiency is going to drop. This is very obvious to someone who's watched Rose over his career. Its as if "people like you" would prefer for an individual to be more efficient, even if its to the detriment of the team's win column.

Are you going to try and convince me now that Iverson's win totals were impressive? Because they really were not. I'm on my phone so its hard to research this as I write but they routinely won between 35 and 50 games as I recall at a time when the East was really poor compared to the West.

D-Leethal
03-01-2014, 08:18 PM
And three of those guys I wouldn't want as my point guard but that's neither here nor there.

Saying that such and such a player was your favorite does not mean you truly emulate them. Obviously Chris Pauls game bears no resemblance but what about all the rest of the players who make little impact? Who was their favorite player? Just because a couple successful pros idolized him doesn't mean that others haven't crashed and burned trying to do what he did.

Being inspired to be great by him is more important than emulating him. Vince Carter was the guy who got me addicted to basketball but when I played I played like Steve Novak. You don't change your game just because the guy you look up to on the basketball court plays that way. Your style of play comes naturally. You can tweak it but you can't forcefeed a certain style.

I'll take Larry Brown's word on how unique, one-of-a-kind and truly great AI was.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 08:18 PM
probably because that's abysmal for someone who had the ball in his hands as much as he did. not only was his usage completely off the charts but he played 40 mins a night.

bcuz it was necessary for the team to compete.

D-Leethal
03-01-2014, 08:20 PM
Are you going to try and convince me now that Iverson's win totals were impressive? Because they really were not. I'm on my phone so its hard to research this as I write but they routinely won between 35 and 50 games as I recall at a time when the East was really poor compared to the West.

You are blinded by your favorite stats. Not surprising coming from someone who thinks the way basketball works is replacing the shots of a less efficient guy like LaMarcus Aldridge with the more efficient guy like Wes Matthews and automatically being a better team. I guess the intricacies and the domino effect of the game are too complex for you to grasp.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 08:20 PM
You are kind of contradicting yourself.

If you try hard, you are allowed to break the rules?

Also, if he cared so much about winning, HE WOULD HAVE PRACTICED.

oh bull **** stars dont practice everyday. that was nothing new then and not new now. i bet Wade hasnt practiced more than once a week this year. i got to sit on a Pistons practice during their title season when they were in town and i watched Sheed shoot behind the net corner shots and practice his golf swing for an hour and a half.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 08:21 PM
Where did I say that? When did I say it was ok to break the rules?

I thought that is what you were implying by stating you don't like 'whitebread players'.

D-Leethal
03-01-2014, 08:22 PM
bcuz it was necessary for the team to compete.

He was a warrior, if LeBron James had his attitude he would still be in Cleveland trying his damndest to put the city on his back to a championship, not taking the easiest and quickest possible route there. AI embraced the challenge of having to dominate every night. His reminds me of Patrick Ewing's warrior-spirit.

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 08:23 PM
You are kind of contradicting yourself.

If you try hard, you are allowed to break the rules?

Also, if he cared so much about winning, HE WOULD HAVE PRACTICED.

Ah missed this part....

He wasn't bright enough to realize this because the game came so easily to him. He never developed his game to his full potential. That's pretty obvious and the reason why he never a championship.

But did I ever say he was entitled to a championship because of his on-court effort? He was just an amazing player to watch who was himself a WALKING CONTRADICTION because he didn't put in the effort in practice but was the hardest hustling player I've ever seen during a game.

If you can't see a difference between the way JR Rider played and the way A.I played then I suggest you rewatch the tape.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 08:25 PM
He was a warrior, if LeBron James had his attitude he would still be in Cleveland trying his damndest to put the city on his back to a championship, not taking the easiest and quickest possible route there. AI embraced the challenge of having to dominate every night. His reminds me of Patrick Ewing's warrior-spirit.

if players now had half the competitive drive of Iverson this league would be the best in the world

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 08:26 PM
Being inspired to be great by him is more important than emulating him. Vince Carter was the guy who got me addicted to basketball but when I played I played like Steve Novak. You don't change your game just because the guy you look up to on the basketball court plays that way. Your style of play comes naturally. You can tweak it but you can't forcefeed a certain style.

I'll take Larry Brown's word on how unique, one-of-a-kind and truly great AI was.

I dont believe the fact that the point guard position is now dominated by guys who are more scorer than passer is coincidence but if others disagree I'm fine with that.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 08:26 PM
I'll take Larry Brown's word on how unique, one-of-a-kind and truly great AI was.

You'll take Larry Brown's word? The guy who quit coaching the Sixers while still under contract?

The guy The Sixers HAPPILY allowed to do it?

The guy who can speak out of all his orifices simultaneously?

The guy that wouldn't sign Iverson when he was coaching the Bobcats?

That Larry Brown? Next-Town Brown?

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 08:30 PM
You are blinded by your favorite stats. Not surprising coming from someone who thinks the way basketball works is replacing the shots of a less efficient guy like LaMarcus Aldridge with the more efficient guy like Wes Matthews and automatically being a better team. I guess the intricacies and the domino effect of the game are too complex for you to grasp.

Bahaha please. Let's not sidetrack this thread with you trying to convince me that all those long two's Aldridge is taking are benefitting his team.

Let's stick to Iverson.

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 08:32 PM
You'll take Larry Brown's word? The guy who quit coaching the Sixers while still under contract?

The guy The Sixers HAPPILY allowed to do it?

The guy who can speak out of all his orifices simultaneously?

The guy that wouldn't sign Iverson when he was coaching the Bobcats?

That Larry Brown? Next-Town Brown?

Yeah...I think I'd trust a championship winning coach with 47+ years of experience to know more about basketball than you or I. And if you disagree... than a certain someone here might have a bigger ego than A.I...

D-Leethal
03-01-2014, 08:34 PM
I dont believe the fact that the point guard position is now dominated by guys who are more scorer than passer is coincidence but if others disagree I'm fine with that.

I blame Michael Jordan and the "Wanna be like Mike" campaign for that. You see PGs wanting to be score, big guys who want to play like guards, MJ made scoring sexy.

AI probably did have an effect on it though, but the guards were gonna start scoring either way.

D-Leethal
03-01-2014, 08:35 PM
Bahaha please. Let's not sidetrack this thread with you trying to convince me that all those long two's Aldridge is taking are benefitting his team.

Let's stick to Iverson.

Your a stat head, the relevant and applicable stats back it up. Must be rough to not even comprehend your favorite thing to post about.

D-Leethal
03-01-2014, 08:36 PM
You'll take Larry Brown's word? The guy who quit coaching the Sixers while still under contract?

The guy The Sixers HAPPILY allowed to do it?

The guy who can speak out of all his orifices simultaneously?

The guy that wouldn't sign Iverson when he was coaching the Bobcats?

That Larry Brown? Next-Town Brown?

I don't think Larry Brown's hardheadedness or personality are relevant to what I said. His encyclopedia of basketball knowledge is.

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 08:37 PM
Your a stat head, the relevant and applicable stats back it up. Must be rough to not even comprehend your favorite thing to post about.

Such as?

Duncan = Donkey
03-01-2014, 09:05 PM
Inefficient chucker who scored alot of points. He had years where he shot under .400:puke:

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 09:06 PM
interesting that D-Leethal splits as soon as he is asked to provide actual evidence to back up his claim..

sammyvine
03-01-2014, 09:19 PM
i don't get all the ''chucker comments''

If he was that bad and that cancerous, he wouldn't have been as successful as he was. Look at his personal accolades. He has more all star appearances, first all teams etc...than the likes of Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. That says it all.

He may not have won a ring but many great players didnt win a ring either but they were still legends. He was an amazing player that was kinda of unlucky that he played in a stacked era and didnt play on great teams. Garnett would have went the same way if it wasn't for the trade to Boston.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 09:20 PM
oh bull **** stars dont practice everyday. that was nothing new then and not new now. i bet Wade hasnt practiced more than once a week this year. i got to sit on a Pistons practice during their title season when they were in town and i watched Sheed shoot behind the net corner shots and practice his golf swing for an hour and a half.

Raswheed. Great example.

If you care about winning, and not about yourself, you practice with your teammates so that plays can be run, defensive schemes can be set, and every player knows what every other player is supposed to doing.

Remember, it's that oracle of the NBA, Larry Brown, that got on AI for not practicing, which brought forth that wonderfully entertaining AI 'we talkin' bout practice' press conference.

Then Larry got the hell out of there.

sammyvine
03-01-2014, 09:22 PM
Raswheed. Great example.

If you care about winning, and not about yourself, you practice with your teammates so that plays can be run, defensive schemes can be set, and every player knows what every other player is supposed to doing.

Remember, it's that oracle of the NBA, Larry Brown, that got on AI for not practicing, which brought forth that wonderfully entertaining AI 'we talkin' bout practice' press conference.

Then Larry got the hell out of there.

He was that good and he didnt practice, imagine how good he would have been if he practiced lol? For his size though and body frame he had a great career despite the fact it ended a little sour. Real fans recognise hence why Lebron, CP3, Kobe all speak well of him.

Duncan = Donkey
03-01-2014, 09:30 PM
i don't get all the ''chucker comments''

If he was that bad and that cancerous, he wouldn't have been as successful as he was. Look at his personal accolades. He has more all star appearances, first all teams etc...than the likes of Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. That says it all.

He may not have won a ring but many great players didnt win a ring either but they were still legends. He was an amazing player that was kinda of unlucky that he played in a stacked era and didnt play on great teams. Garnett would have went the same way if it wasn't for the trade to Boston.

you dont get the chucker comments? he took a ridiculous amount of shots at an inefficent rate. Whats not to understand.
A chucker is likely to have alot of personal accolades, you take alot of shots - your going to score alot of points.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 09:36 PM
He was that good and he didnt practice, imagine how good he would have been if he practiced lol? For his size though and body frame he had a great career despite the fact it ended a little sour. Real fans recognise hence why Lebron, CP3, Kobe all speak well of him.

Exactly my point. Why doesn't anyone realize this. With all his talent and toughness, he made the Finals exactly once, and it took two 7th game-ending missed shots in the Eastern Playoffs to get him there.

If he was so devoured by the will to win, he would have practiced, which would have made his teams better, and Sixers might have advanced in the playoffs (or even made the playoffs) more often.

Bernard King was a spectacular player, incredibly focused, an had very little playoff success. But you don't see fans running down Bernard because he was selfish, or because he didn't practice, or that he thought he should have special privileges because he was superstar. Bernard was about trying to win. AI was about AI.

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 09:42 PM
I'm as guilty as the next guy of getting caught up in his performances when I was younger. I had a feeling that what I was watching wasn't as impressive as it seemed, or admirable, but it wasn't until we had access to better and more stats that it became obvious.

It was fun to watch because he literally was the show. But when viewed with context he had very little team success for someone with otherworldly talent.

sammyvine
03-01-2014, 09:47 PM
I'm as guilty as the next guy of getting caught up in his performances when I was younger. I had a feeling that what I was watching wasn't as impressive as it seemed, or admirable, but it wasn't until we had access to better and more stats that it became obvious.

It was fun to watch because he literally was the show. But when viewed with context he had very little team success for someone with otherworldly talent.

because he was never on good teams...similar situation as garnett even though garnett won a ring late in his career.
Iversen played with Melo but was past him prime at that point imo and melo and iversen is a terrible fit lol.

sammyvine
03-01-2014, 09:47 PM
you dont get the chucker comments? he took a ridiculous amount of shots at an inefficent rate. Whats not to understand.
A chucker is likely to have alot of personal accolades, you take alot of shots - your going to score alot of points.

so wheres brandon jennings accolades, where josh smith's accolades?
he did chuck shots because he was the main scorer on his team and he was never a pass first guard. that's all it is really.

sammyvine
03-01-2014, 09:52 PM
Exactly my point. Why doesn't anyone realize this. With all his talent and toughness, he made the Finals exactly once, and it took two 7th game-ending missed shots in the Eastern Playoffs to get him there.

If he was so devoured by the will to win, he would have practiced, which would have made his teams better, and Sixers might have advanced in the playoffs (or even made the playoffs) more often.

Bernard King was a spectacular player, incredibly focused, an had very little playoff success. But you don't see fans running down Bernard because he was selfish, or because he didn't practice, or that he thought he should have special privileges because he was superstar. Bernard was about trying to win. AI was about AI.

Thats not really fair. Some players are not on good teams. Look at lebron with the cavs and garnett with the timberwolves. Practice or no practice that 76ers teams weren't great. It's a team game despite what people say. Kobe is similar to AI in mindset and skill but Kobe played for a great franchise that always brought in talent (shaq, gasol,). If Iversen played with Shaq he would have won rings as well. Luck of the draw I suppose.

Its unfair to diminish a player because he didn't win rings. If your comparing him to Jordan than yeah of course rings comes into it but a lot of great players didn't win rings and I guess iversen is just another player on that list.

Also a lot of fans respect or like Iversen. Just because PSD is sour on him, doesn't mean everyone is. He was one of the most popular players and fellow players have always spoke glowingly. Didn't Lebron say in an interview that MJ and Iversen were his idols growing up? That says it all.

Duncan = Donkey
03-01-2014, 09:59 PM
so wheres brandon jennings accolades, where josh smith's accolades?
he did chuck shots because he was the main scorer on his team and he was never a pass first guard. that's all it is really.

Chuckers don't get accolades anymore, with advanced stats people finally understand how overrated inefficient chuckers like these guys are.

Duncan = Donkey
03-01-2014, 10:03 PM
Thats not really fair. Some players are not on good teams. Look at lebron with the cavs and garnett with the timberwolves. Practice or no practice that 76ers teams weren't great. It's a team game despite what people say. Kobe is similar to AI in mindset and skill but Kobe played for a great franchise that always brought in talent (shaq, gasol,). If Iversen played with Shaq he would have won rings as well. Luck of the draw I suppose.

Its unfair to diminish a player because he didn't win rings. If your comparing him to Jordan than yeah of course rings comes into it but a lot of great players didn't win rings and I guess iversen is just another player on that list.

Also a lot of fans respect or like Iversen. Just because PSD is sour on him, doesn't mean everyone is. He was one of the most popular players and fellow players have always spoke glowingly. Didn't Lebron say in an interview that MJ and Iversen were his idols growing up? That says it all.

That 76ers team had a top 5 defense, the 6th man of the year and a Perennial All star at C. They were a good team, dont downplay them to hype Iverson.

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 10:07 PM
All I know is regardless of what the PSD critics say Im glad Philly still has enough respect and love to put his jersey in the rafters. As do the best players that ever played ( such as Lebron btw). Much deserved!

SeoulBeatz
03-01-2014, 10:15 PM
All I know is regardless of what the PSD critics say Im glad Philly still has enough respect and love to put his jersey in the raptors. As do the best players that ever played ( such as Lebron btw). Much deserved!

Lol Iverson is universally loved in Philly. They sold out friggin Wizards-Sixers, that's how much the city loves Iverson.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 10:19 PM
Thats not really fair. Some players are not on good teams. Look at lebron with the cavs and garnett with the timberwolves. Practice or no practice that 76ers teams weren't great. It's a team game despite what people say. Kobe is similar to AI in mindset and skill but Kobe played for a great franchise that always brought in talent (shaq, gasol,). If Iversen played with Shaq he would have won rings as well. Luck of the draw I suppose.

Its unfair to diminish a player because he didn't win rings. If your comparing him to Jordan than yeah of course rings comes into it but a lot of great players didn't win rings and I guess iversen is just another player on that list.

Also a lot of fans respect or like Iversen. Just because PSD is sour on him, doesn't mean everyone is. He was one of the most popular players and fellow players have always spoke glowingly. Didn't Lebron say in an interview that MJ and Iversen were his idols growing up? That says it all.

Geez, I just brought up Bernard King, who was one of the most intense players in the game and won nothing.

Garnett was going up against Shaq and other superior teams in the West. Did you read anything about how KG wasn't giving it his all every season and every playoffs while a Timberwolf?

Lebron took a team that was obviously not built around him, and got that team to the Finals in a weak East (by the way, Sixers Finals season was in a very weak East. Hell, the Bucks and Raptors took Sixers to 7 games).

And it is sad that I even have to mention this, but to compare AI to Lebron is simply ludicrous.

Also, do you remember that AI was traded to the Pistons in the preseason before their Finals run. Matt Geiger's refusal to waive his trade bonus was the reason AI was still a Sixer that season. Larry Brown and Sixers management wanted him OUT.

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 10:25 PM
Raswheed. Great example.

If you care about winning, and not about yourself, you practice with your teammates so that plays can be run, defensive schemes can be set, and every player knows what every other player is supposed to doing.

Remember, it's that oracle of the NBA, Larry Brown, that got on AI for not practicing, which brought forth that wonderfully entertaining AI 'we talkin' bout practice' press conference.

Then Larry got the hell out of there.

get real dude you know as well as anyone most of these stars dont practice that often. when you lay your body out the way iverson did every night you deserve a lot time off from practice to rest

2-ONE-5
03-01-2014, 10:28 PM
i feel bad for all these dudes trying to discredit Iverson and use all their fancy advanced stats when they never seen him play more then a few times if at all. the man is a legend in this city and will always be loved and if you missed out on seeing him in his prime you missed out on one of the most electrifying, toughest, competitive players to ever step on the court.

NEXT STOP HALL OF FAME

AI FOREVER

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 10:28 PM
because he was never on good teams...similar situation as garnett even though garnett won a ring late in his career.
Iversen played with Melo but was past him prime at that point imo and melo and iversen is a terrible fit lol.

no, it's really not like that at all. as far as i'm concerned you don't get to use that excuse unless you've done all that you can do, and done it with a reasonable level of efficiency and you still fall short year after year. otherwise you might be just as much a part of the problem as a victim of circumstance.

Jamiecballer
03-01-2014, 10:30 PM
Chuckers don't get accolades anymore, with advanced stats people finally understand how overrated inefficient chuckers like these guys are.

bingo. closest comparable nowadays is Melo and he has an awful lot of detractors despite being a more efficient player than AI was.

bagwell368
03-01-2014, 10:33 PM
they really do. they all think hes some selfish ball hog but refuse to acknowledge the lack of talent he played with and the fact that he is 41st all time in assists with over 6 per game for his career

How is his assist rate given his USG% - 3rd highest all time? Lousy. Thanks for bringing that up.

bagwell368
03-01-2014, 10:38 PM
i feel bad for all these dudes trying to discredit Iverson and use all their fancy advanced stats when they never seen him play more then a few times if at all.

Not speaking for me. I saw him play over 150 times easily. Lots of energy and will power, terrible judgement, forced way too many shots up, crappy attitude, coach killer, ball hog (3rd all time USG%), poor shooting percentages. He didn't play the way I was taught to play, or taught others to play when it was my turn.


the man is a legend in this city and will always be loved

That's fine. Clearly he has lots of fans, and clearly he's going to the HOF. But that doesn't mean he was a high quality player or person. Sonny Liston is in the boxing HOF, and he was a criminal too.


NEXT STOP HALL OF FAME

AI FOREVER

Send some money, I think he needs it.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 10:43 PM
i feel bad for all these dudes trying to discredit Iverson and use all their fancy advanced stats when they never seen him play more then a few times if at all. the man is a legend in this city and will always be loved and if you missed out on seeing him in his prime you missed out on one of the most electrifying, toughest, competitive players to ever step on the court.

NEXT STOP HALL OF FAME

AI FOREVER

That's not proof of AI's talents and efficiency. That's a paid political announcement.

And I'm sure it's approved by AI, if he can actually read what you posted.

bagwell368
03-01-2014, 10:46 PM
He was that good and he didnt practice, imagine how good he would have been if he practiced lol? For his size though and body frame he had a great career despite the fact it ended a little sour. Real fans recognise hence why Lebron, CP3, Kobe all speak well of him.

Big deal. What good would it do them to bad mouth him?

I've been a fan of the NBA since the Fall of 1965, and AI is one of the 5-10 worst (considering the entire package) players I've seen. And please don't try the I hate the 76'ers thing on me. Mo Cheeks was all things considered a better player, so was Bobby Jones, Chet Walker, Dr. J, Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer, Toney was going that way until his feet went on him, and a large number of other 76'ers.

Duncan = Donkey
03-01-2014, 10:52 PM
That's not proof of AI's talents and efficiency. That's a paid political announcement.

And I'm sure it's approved by AI, if he can actually read what you posted.

:laugh2:

bagwell368
03-01-2014, 10:53 PM
He was a warrior, if LeBron James had his attitude he would still be in Cleveland trying his damndest to put the city on his back to a championship, not taking the easiest and quickest possible route there. AI embraced the challenge of having to dominate every night. His reminds me of Patrick Ewing's warrior-spirit.

Yeah sure, that's why he spent most of the time starting at the end of the 2001-02 season complaining, demanding trades, undercutting his coaches, and shooting all manner of stupid shots.

Tell me this: would AI have been a better player if he took 5 less FGA's a game (the worst shots - not neccessarily the ones he missed, but the worst percentage ones) and instead passed the damn ball? I'll answer for you - YES.

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 11:21 PM
That's not proof of AI's talents and efficiency. That's a paid political announcement.

And I'm sure it's approved by AI, if he can actually read what you posted.

Right...... because we all know Iverson is illiterate. Most people like him are.

Tony_Starks
03-01-2014, 11:24 PM
Yeah sure, that's why he spent most of the time starting at the end of the 2001-02 season complaining, demanding trades, undercutting his coaches, and shooting all manner of stupid shots.

Tell me this: would AI have been a better player if he took 5 less FGA's a game (the worst shots - not neccessarily the ones he missed, but the worst percentage ones) and instead passed the damn ball? I'll answer for you - YES.

I agree. It used to kill me when he didnt get the ball to the likes of Mutumbo, Matt Gieger, Eric Snow, and Aaron Mckie. What was he thinking?

Hawkeye15
03-01-2014, 11:27 PM
i feel bad for all these dudes trying to discredit Iverson and use all their fancy advanced stats when they never seen him play more then a few times if at all. the man is a legend in this city and will always be loved and if you missed out on seeing him in his prime you missed out on one of the most electrifying, toughest, competitive players to ever step on the court.

NEXT STOP HALL OF FAME

AI FOREVER

I watched him play a ton of times. He is the ultimate debate regarding advanced stats versus the eye test. Because they tell entirely different stories.

He will always be discussed in that way.

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 11:33 PM
I agree. It used to kill me when he didnt get the ball to the likes of Mutumbo, Matt Gieger, Eric Snow, and Aaron Mckie. What was he thinking?

He was thinking "I gots to get mine".

TheMightyHumph
03-01-2014, 11:36 PM
Right...... because we all know Iverson is illiterate. Most people like him are.

I said 'if'.

Are you now pushing AI out of the illiteracy closet?

Sadds The Gr8
03-01-2014, 11:40 PM
i feel bad for all these dudes trying to discredit Iverson and use all their fancy advanced stats when they never seen him play more then a few times if at all. the man is a legend in this city and will always be loved and if you missed out on seeing him in his prime you missed out on one of the most electrifying, toughest, competitive players to ever step on the court.

NEXT STOP HALL OF FAME

AI FOREVER

Iverson is probably the most polarizing player of this era. I think people overrate and underrate the hell out of him. I've always respected him but I just don't think that he was the best player in the league at any point in his career and people are fooled into that.

and about the "never seen him play thing", same can be said for some of AI's dickriders also. Bottom line is that it was hard to watch EVERY team EVERY day back then, period. League pass wasn't there back then (I don't think).

Hawkeye15
03-02-2014, 12:27 AM
Iverson is probably the most polarizing player of this era. I think people overrate and underrate the hell out of him. I've always respected him but I just don't think that he was the best player in the league at any point in his career and people are fooled into that.

and about the "never seen him play thing", same can be said for some of AI's dickriders also. Bottom line is that it was hard to watch EVERY team EVERY day back then, period. League pass wasn't there back then (I don't think).

Iverson was never a top 5 player in the league.

Sadds The Gr8
03-02-2014, 12:44 AM
Iverson was never a top 5 player in the league.

never really looked back and compared but maybe not

Chronz
03-02-2014, 01:53 AM
I agree. It used to kill me when he didnt get the ball to the likes of Mutumbo, Matt Gieger, Eric Snow, and Aaron Mckie. What was he thinking?

But couldn't you argue that management decided to surround him with these players because they understood his ball dominating/inefficient tendencies?

Just a theory, no clue if its true but I do recall Melo playing his worst ball of the season once he went from a passing PG like Andre Miller to him (While Iggy thrived to a greater degree alongside that same player). And I recall George Karl struggling to balance when and where to use AI. Him having a truer PG allowed all the pieces to fall into place for that team, on both ends.

Chronz
03-02-2014, 01:55 AM
i feel bad for all these dudes trying to discredit Iverson and use all their fancy advanced stats when they never seen him play more then a few times if at all. the man is a legend in this city and will always be loved and if you missed out on seeing him in his prime you missed out on one of the most electrifying, toughest, competitive players to ever step on the court.

NEXT STOP HALL OF FAME

AI FOREVER

I feel bad for posters who have to pretend they know what other posters have seen or done.

Chronz
03-02-2014, 01:58 AM
The practice thing was definitely overblown, dude needed time to rest his body here and there. Lots of legends never went full bore during practice, including the games greatest winner, Bill Russell

KnicksorBust
03-02-2014, 02:01 AM
I actually loved Ai. Maybe it was georgetown..but regardless he was overrated as hell wbur fortunately as the league progresses players like him will be weeded out.

Tony_Starks
03-02-2014, 03:02 AM
But couldn't you argue that management decided to surround him with these players because they understood his ball dominating/inefficient tendencies?

Just a theory, no clue if its true but I do recall Melo playing his worst ball of the season once he went from a passing PG like Andre Miller to him (While Iggy thrived to a greater degree alongside that same player). And I recall George Karl struggling to balance when and where to use AI. Him having a truer PG allowed all the pieces to fall into place for that team, on both ends.


I think the team was built around Larry Browns defensive scheme more than anything. As ordinary as his teammates were offensively the majority of them were good to great defenders and AI was no slouch himself. Offensively he basically had the green light.

But my thing is they were winning with AI taking those shots. Had his mouth not ran him out of town Philly couldve had more success IMO, but his and Browns relationship was definitely love/hate.

Slug3
03-02-2014, 05:21 AM
Anyone else watch the halftime jersey retirement for AI? My god was it painful to watch.

ewing
03-02-2014, 12:24 PM
But couldn't you argue that management decided to surround him with these players because they understood his ball dominating/inefficient tendencies?

Just a theory, no clue if its true but I do recall Melo playing his worst ball of the season once he went from a passing PG like Andre Miller to him (While Iggy thrived to a greater degree alongside that same player). And I recall George Karl struggling to balance when and where to use AI. Him having a truer PG allowed all the pieces to fall into place for that team, on both ends.


They definitely built that type of team around him. They got rid of the Hughes, spoon, Stack, JJ in favor of defensive minded guys that played without the ball. I wouldn't blame them for that. It worked

ewing
03-02-2014, 12:27 PM
I think the team was built around Larry Browns defensive scheme more than anything. As ordinary as his teammates were offensively the majority of them were good to great defenders and AI was no slouch himself. Offensively he basically had the green light.

But my thing is they were winning with AI taking those shots. Had his mouth not ran him out of town Philly couldve had more success IMO, but his and Browns relationship was definitely love/hate.


You think they built around a coach that was known more for leaving town then anything else and not the guy they took number 1 overall :confused:

TheMightyHumph
03-02-2014, 03:28 PM
You think they built around a coach that was known more for leaving town then anything else and not the guy they took number 1 overall :confused:

Well, a trade was in place to get rid of Iverson during the '00 offseason, but Matt Geiger wouldn't waive his trade bonus, so Iverson stayed.

Now who do you think they built around?

2-ONE-5
03-02-2014, 04:06 PM
Big deal. What good would it do them to bad mouth him?

I've been a fan of the NBA since the Fall of 1965, and AI is one of the 5-10 worst (considering the entire package) players I've seen. And please don't try the I hate the 76'ers thing on me. Mo Cheeks was all things considered a better player, so was Bobby Jones, Chet Walker, Dr. J, Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer, Toney was going that way until his feet went on him, and a large number of other 76'ers.

troll on my man troll on.

2-ONE-5
03-02-2014, 04:09 PM
Stephen A put it best on Sportscenter this morning. Players deferred to AI on a nightly basis, they trusted him to to lead them and they needed him to in order to be successful

2-ONE-5
03-02-2014, 04:10 PM
Anyone else watch the halftime jersey retirement for AI? My god was it painful to watch.

yea hearing a man speak from the heart is painful...

Jamiecballer
03-02-2014, 04:33 PM
Stephen A put it best on Sportscenter this morning. Players deferred to AI on a nightly basis, they trusted him to to lead them and they needed him to in order to be successful

They didn't really defer. They didn't make waves. That's the whole idea behind putting a blue collar crew around him.

ewing
03-02-2014, 04:39 PM
Well, a trade was in place to get rid of Iverson during the '00 offseason, but Matt Geiger wouldn't waive his trade bonus, so Iverson stayed.

Now who do you think they built around?


allen iverson

TheMightyHumph
03-02-2014, 04:44 PM
allen iverson

That pretty much sums it up.

ewing
03-02-2014, 04:47 PM
That pretty much sums it up.

If you want to pretend that b/c rumor has it they explored an Iverson trade that they didn't make moves with maximizing AI's talent in mind cool, but you are wrong

TheMightyHumph
03-02-2014, 05:07 PM
If you want to pretend that b/c rumor has it they explored an Iverson trade that they didn't make moves with maximizing AI's talent in mind cool, but you are wrong

Did more than explore it. And it's not a rumor.

Slug3
03-02-2014, 05:29 PM
yea hearing a man speak from the heart is painful...

I'm not talking about AI. I was talking about the people before him.

2-ONE-5
03-02-2014, 05:30 PM
They didn't really defer. They didn't make waves. That's the whole idea behind putting a blue collar crew around him.

they did defer bcuz they were offensively challenged.

FYL_McVeezy
03-02-2014, 05:31 PM
Wasn't a fan of the guy, but as I saw how dirty and corrupt the NBA was I realized this dude got blackballed out of the NBA....his jersey is retired tomorrow but really he should be on a roster somewhere.

The truth: http://www.balldontstop.com/blackballed-the-media-and-nba-forced-allen-iverson-into-retirement/

What you guys think?

AI did it to himself.....

THE MTL
03-02-2014, 06:27 PM
Allen Iverson should have been in the league still. He should have passed 30K pts for his career. The league really did shun him. He was one season removed from a great season and people were acting like he was washed up and nothing. And yes, even to this day, people act like he wasnt good. All you posters, "good riddance" "he was done" "he was selfish" "he was a thug"...are all brainwashed by the media just like the article mentioned.

One thing about this article though, "Guys like Brandon Jennings from Compton will get left off Team USA training camp invites just because of what they represent or what brand they endorse." LMFAO! Ok, thats the reason why Brandon Jennings will get left off the National Team. I thought it was his 30% shooting. Silly me

THE MTL
03-02-2014, 06:30 PM
And to the casual basketball fan, Allen Iverson is 4th biggest, most known, most influential NBA star of ALL TIME! I only put him behind Jordan, Kobe, Lebron is terms of influence and sheer popularity.

Tony_Starks
03-02-2014, 06:32 PM
SAS gave a good story about AI from back in the day. Talking about people criticizing him shooting too much. He basically said I bring the ball up and give it Snow, who gives it to Lynch, then to Mutumbo, to Aaron Mckie, then back to me. Now if they did all that and got the ball back to me what do you expect me to do?

SeoulBeatz
03-02-2014, 06:41 PM
SAS gave a good story about AI from back in the day. Talking about people criticizing him shooting too much. He basically said I bring the ball up and give it Snow, who gives it to Lynch, then to Mutumbo, to Aaron Mckie, then back to me. Now if they did all that and got the ball back to me what do you expect me to do?

Oh no doubt he was the only option to score on that team. That's how it was designed. That team would not win 20 games without Iverson and they reached their max potential with him. Not a championship team, but certainly a very dangerous/stout defensive unit with one of the most intimidating offensive weapons of all time.

Not a bad formula at all (similar to D Rose and the Bulls) but no one was going to beat Shaq and Kobe in the early 2000's.

TheMightyHumph
03-02-2014, 06:58 PM
SAS gave a good story about AI from back in the day. Talking about people criticizing him shooting too much. He basically said I bring the ball up and give it Snow, who gives it to Lynch, then to Mutumbo, to Aaron Mckie, then back to me. Now if they did all that and got the ball back to me what do you expect me to do?

Yeah, Carmelo did that with Iverson too.

Jamiecballer
03-02-2014, 07:12 PM
they did defer bcuz they were offensively challenged.
That was the blueprint and it was not by accident. 76ers and Brown got tired of trying to get AI to change. Does that let him off the hook? Hell no.

More-Than-Most
03-02-2014, 07:44 PM
He isnt good anymore... Even when he was great he was extremely overrated... Most players can score if they shoot the ball 9999999999 times a game.

Chronz
03-02-2014, 08:26 PM
they did defer bcuz they were offensively challenged.

They deferred to everyone they ever played with tho. Thats why they surrounded AI with those guys, because the offensive players they did try to pair him with likely either complained or were held back by his ballhoggery.

ewing
03-02-2014, 08:34 PM
Did more than explore it. And it's not a rumor.

so?

SeoulBeatz
03-02-2014, 08:53 PM
They deferred to everyone they ever played with tho. Thats why they surrounded AI with those guys, because the offensive players they did try to pair him with likely either complained or were held back by his ballhoggery.

Like who? Larry Hughes? The guy is best friends with A.I and was on the court at his retirement ceremony.

Keith Van Horn? The guy got as many touches as he deserved and was a decent 2nd option with A.I, but FFS it's Keith Van Horn. He's not going to win you a chip as a 2nd option.

How about 32 year old Glenn Robinson? He was out of shape when he arrived in Philly and quit on the team as soon as they drafted Iguodala.

Then how about broken down 32 y/o Webber? He barely had knees when he arrived in Philly and gunned more than A.I. We tried desperately to give him the ball in the right spots (I can't tell you how many WIDE OPEN elbow jumpers he bricked) and he still couldn't find his touch. He shot 43% in his time in Philly and that was all on him.

Iverson never had a true #2 in his prime in Philly. He did put up his most efficient shooting numbers when playing alongside the likes of Melo, but they never did anything in playoffs in 2 years together so we'll never really know if that was best for him.

Personally I think A.I had to be surrounded with defenders (like he was in 01) to succeed. Not the most efficient method for a team but other teams have built on that blueprint like the Bulls (who got screwed unfortunately) and they were damn good, as Rose is just a more efficient A.I with less baggage and he also had a better surrounding cast.

Chronz
03-02-2014, 09:01 PM
Like who? Larry Hughes? The guy is best friends with A.I and was on the court at his retirement ceremony.

Keith Van Horn? The guy got as many touches as he deserved and was a decent 2nd option with A.I, but FFS it's Keith Van Horn. He's not going to win you a chip as a 2nd option.

How about 32 year old Glenn Robinson? He was out of shape when he arrived in Philly and quit on the team as soon as they drafted Iguodala.

Then how about broken down 32 y/o Webber? He barely had knees when he arrived in Philly and gunned more than A.I. We tried desperately to give him the ball in the right spots (I can't tell you how many WIDE OPEN elbow jumpers he bricked) and he still couldn't find his touch. He shot 43% in his time in Philly and that was all on him.

Iverson never had a true #2 in his prime in Philly. He did put up his most efficient shooting numbers when playing alongside the likes of Melo, but they never did anything in playoffs in 2 years together so we'll never really know if that was best for him.

Personally I think A.I had to be surrounded with defenders (like he was in 01) to succeed. Not the most efficient method for a team but other teams have built on that blueprint like the Bulls (who got screwed unfortunately) and they were damn good, as Rose is just a more efficient A.I with less baggage and he also had a better surrounding cast.

I recall him and Stackhouse coming to blows. And I never said they all complained or that they were great players, I said that they played better without him. But I shouldnt have said ALL of them, certainly a good chunk tho. The kind of guys AI made better were bigmen who could crash the glass on his drives to the rim.

Jamiecballer
03-02-2014, 09:02 PM
I recall him and Stackhouse coming to blows. And I never said they all complained or that they were great players, I said that they played better without him. But I shouldnt have said ALL of them, certainly a good chunk tho. The kind of guys AI made better were bigmen who could crash the glass on his drives to the rim.

sort of the ultimate back-handed compliment.

Chronz
03-02-2014, 09:06 PM
sort of the ultimate back-handed compliment.

Maybe but I didn't really mean it that way, if you're going to be less efficient, at least be the kind who can warp defenses enough to make other players more efficient. AI did that for his bigmen because it gave them easy putbacks. Thats the sense I got watching him play, someday I'll actually look into his impact on his teammates.

bagwell368
03-02-2014, 09:10 PM
Allen Iverson should have been in the league still. He should have passed 30K pts for his career. The league really did shun him. He was one season removed from a great season and people were acting like he was washed up and nothing. And yes, even to this day, people act like he wasnt good. All you posters, "good riddance" "he was done" "he was selfish" "he was a thug"...are all brainwashed by the media just like the article mentioned.

One thing about this article though, "Guys like Brandon Jennings from Compton will get left off Team USA training camp invites just because of what they represent or what brand they endorse." LMFAO! Ok, thats the reason why Brandon Jennings will get left off the National Team. I thought it was his 30% shooting. Silly me

As he got past 2001 he became more and more demanding, selfish, erratic - he started to undercut coaches, and criticize owners. He signed a two year deal to play abroad and after what about 14 games claimed he was injured and left. What organization in its right mind would want this volume shooting guard that could no longer play D, had a bum knee, and was uncoachable - but could certainly ruin any situation he was put in?

He has only his own behavior to blame.

bagwell368
03-02-2014, 09:14 PM
And to the casual basketball fan, Allen Iverson is 4th biggest, most known, most influential NBA star of ALL TIME! I only put him behind Jordan, Kobe, Lebron is terms of influence and sheer popularity.

In Philly?

Who cares? Does that connote to how good he was? He's not even in the top 125 of all time. He was never in the top 7-8 players in a given year, and his peak was short. I don't give points for 'style' or being a hero to some subsection of 'youthful fans'. Can the man play or can't he? He had the talent. Did he put it to good use for his teams - hell no - he's an anti example of how to conduct yourself on and off the court.

If he wasn't a well known sports star growing up, he would have done hard time as a teenager. He's made bizarre excuses related to his family, left teams when he didn't get his way, blown away a contract he signed to play abroad because he decided it didn't suit him. He's just a spoiled baby who thinks he's an alpha that never had anyone prove to him he isn't. So his life went off the rails. He's a hero to you? I feel sorry for you and him. He's a loser.

bagwell368
03-02-2014, 09:17 PM
Oh no doubt he was the only option to score on that team. That's how it was designed. That team would not win 20 games without Iverson and they reached their max potential with him. Not a championship team, but certainly a very dangerous/stout defensive unit with one of the most intimidating offensive weapons of all time.

Not a bad formula at all (similar to D Rose and the Bulls) but no one was going to beat Shaq and Kobe in the early 2000's.

You need to study the game more. Nobody that shot at such a shabby percentage as Iverson was anywhere near one of the most intimidating offensive weapons of all time.

Mullen, Allen, Jordan, Nash, Porter, Terry, Billups, Moncrief, Scott, CP3, Parker, Drexler, Hill, Fisher, Dumars, Cheeks, Nixon, Pierce, Price, Stockton, Gervin, Miller, Wade? And dozens more - all much more devastating on offense than Iverson (per shooting %), many better passers, better winners.

Tony_Starks
03-02-2014, 09:29 PM
In Philly?

Who cares? Does that connote to how good he was? He's not even in the top 125 of all time. He was never in the top 7-8 players in a given year, and his peak was short. I don't give points for 'style' or being a hero to some subsection of 'youthful fans'. Can the man play or can't he? He had the talent. Did he put it to good use for his teams - hell no - he's an anti example of how to conduct yourself on and off the court.

If he wasn't a well known sports star growing up, he would have done hard time as a teenager. He's made bizarre excuses related to his family, left teams when he didn't get his way, blown away a contract he signed to play abroad because he decided it didn't suit him. He's just a spoiled baby who thinks he's an alpha that never had anyone prove to him he isn't. So his life went off the rails. He's a hero to you? I feel sorry for you and him. He's a loser.

Glad you don't take it personal.....

TheMightyHumph
03-02-2014, 09:36 PM
so?

So??????????? You don't build a team around a player you are about to trade. You crack me up.