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Deception
02-26-2014, 02:21 PM
For years, Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban has battled the league when it comes to official transparency. He's wanted more accountability when officials make bad calls or trend in the direction of one team or another. And after over a decade of battling David Stern on such matters, it appears Cuban's going to like the Adam Silver quite a bit more. Why?

Because Silver is having the league send reports of blown calls to the teams. From Bleacher Report:

“I think he's taken some great steps on the officiating,” Cuban said. “There's been more changes in 15 days, or whatever it is, than I saw in 14 years.”

Cuban then divulged the most significant of those changes: The league is now sending its teams regular reports on blown calls by the referees. It's one of the first steps in Silver's push for greater transparency. Cuban has been advocating for measures like this since he purchased the Mavericks in 2000.

“So I like what he's doing there,” Cuban said.

via Mark Cuban Reveals 1st Big Change in Post-Stern Era: More Transparency on Refs.

"Transparency" was definitely Silver's keyword at his first public appearance and series of interviews over All-Star Weekend. That's been his mantra, and it's a curious departure from what was, under David Stern, a league that kept things very close to the vest.

The Tim Donaghy scandal is coming up on seven years old. In the wake of the revelation that an NBA official had been gambling on his own games and Donaghy's subsequent conviction, the NBA launched its own independent investigation, released the findings, answered questions as strongly as possible, and moved away from it with little damage done. This would appear to be a stronger move to avoid the appearance of conspiracy, which has plagued the league since the 1985 draft.

It's also a smart move in the digital era where sites (like this one) capture and post video and GIFs of key calls on a daily basis. The league is building more trust with its owners, coaches, and players, and by extension, with the public. Its a bold move from Silver, one that says "We have nothing to hide." Public and shareholder confidence is never a bad thing in business.


A great step in the right direction, officials should be docked pay for making bad calls (obvious bad calls) and be restricted certain games they can officiate.

Goose17
02-26-2014, 02:30 PM
A great step in the right direction, officials should be docked pay for making bad calls (obvious bad calls) and be restricted certain games they can officiate.

How much do they get paid? I don't know about docking their wages, seems a tad extreme. You wouldn't dock a player for turning the ball over, why dock a referee for making a bad call? They're both just innocent mistakes made by humans.

I do think this is the right step though... which team will be the first to pull this data and fire it into their analytic department to try and work out the tendencies of refs before games? lol

P&GRealist
02-26-2014, 02:35 PM
How much do they get paid? I don't know about docking their wages, seems a tad extreme. You wouldn't dock a player for turning the ball over, why dock a referee for making a bad call? They're both just innocent mistakes made by humans.

I do think this is the right step though... which team will be the first to pull this data and fire it into their analytic department to try and work out the tendencies of refs before games? lol

That is the most dumbest nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Turnovers are a part of the game, not bad calls.

Players don't negatively affect refs with turnovers, but refs DO negatively affect players with bad calls.

Get a clue.

moshy2
02-26-2014, 02:35 PM
Yeah idk about the docking pay either, but I do like this idea. There will be more accountability with everything out in the open. Hopefully superstars won't get fouls anymore for just running into people and flopping

CityofChaos
02-26-2014, 02:40 PM
How about more use of instant replay to overturn blatantly bad calls?

P&GRealist
02-26-2014, 02:41 PM
How about more use of instant replay to overturn blatantly bad calls?

So we can make 2 1/2 hour games into 4 hour games?

CityofChaos
02-26-2014, 02:43 PM
That is the most dumbest nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Turnovers are a part of the game, not bad calls.

Players don't negatively affect refs with turnovers, but refs DO negatively affect players with bad calls.

Get a clue.

Players do make bad plays that don't get called by refs--> that "negatively affects" the opposing team.

Goose17
02-26-2014, 02:45 PM
That is the most dumbest nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Turnovers are a part of the game, not bad calls.

Players don't negatively affect refs with turnovers, but refs DO negatively affect players with bad calls.

Get a clue.

No. Referees negatively affect a teams chance of winning with bad calls. A player negatively affects a teams chance of winning with bad decisions. They're the same thing.

If a ref calls you for a charge but the guy flopped, it results in the ball being turned over unnecessarily. It was a bad decision by the ref.

If a guy has his feet set and you charge him, it results in the ball being turned over unnecessarily. It was a bad decision by the player.



You're telling me that if a ref calls "goal tending" on a basket that might give a team the lead late in the 4th, but it wasn't actually a goal tend, he should be docked wages. But if a player on that exact same play, actually does goal tend, that's not the same thing?

A bad decision is a bad decision. Whether it's being made by the ref or the player. They're only human. You can't dock wages for a mistake.

THE MTL
02-26-2014, 02:50 PM
I think refs should be held accountable. Its their job. And for too long; stern has protected the refs

Goose17
02-26-2014, 02:53 PM
I think refs should be held accountable. Its their job. And for too long; stern has protected the refs

Sure, but a warning system leading to more severe punishment for repeat offenders would make more sense.

The last thing we want is refs who are so scared to make a 50/50 call that they have to stop play to review it or discuss it with the other refs. The games will take WAY too long. It would kill he flow.

Chronz
02-26-2014, 03:06 PM
lol at docking someones pay for mistakes that have been a part of the game since day 1. You cant have refs out there questioning themselves, worrying about making a mistake that will cost them money. Refs get paid good money tho.

ManRam
02-26-2014, 03:24 PM
A great step in the right direction, officials should be docked pay for making bad calls (obvious bad calls) and be restricted certain games they can officiate.

I don't know. Mistakes happen...these guys are human. They mistakes just as much as anyone else does. It's impossible to get every thing right. It's impossible for any NBA player to not make 10-15+ "mistakes" a game.


I'd like to hear a more concrete example of how docking them would work. What constitutes "obvious bad calls"? It seems like a very hard thing to do. I think more accountability and transparency is always worth it, but I don't think docking the ref's pay for missing calls is the way to go.

There does need to be more of a focus on referee evaluation, tho. I don't think it's too much to ask for that the league, or an independent third party, evaluates each ref all year long keeping track of things. Figure out who's doing well and who isn't in a more empirical way, be somewhat transparent with it, and base future decisions on it. Those decisions being re-hiring, officiating big games, etc. Reward the good ones. But fining them every time they mess up: nah.

nastynice
02-26-2014, 03:34 PM
Very good move, glad to hear this. Mistakes are going to happen, but transparency is the best way to put everything out there and make teams feel comfortable. Now if only the nfl did this, I'd love to read through those Raider's reports lol

koreancabbage
02-26-2014, 04:21 PM
Yeah idk about the docking pay either, but I do like this idea. There will be more accountability with everything out in the open. Hopefully superstars won't get fouls anymore for just running into people and flopping

then refs will never make the right call then. they'll just let the play go on, on iffy plays. Instead, superstars will take even MORE advantage if the refs aren't going to make calls anymore (b/c of the docked pay for each 'bad' call)

koreancabbage
02-26-2014, 04:24 PM
A great step in the right direction, officials should be docked pay for making bad calls (obvious bad calls) and be restricted certain games they can officiate.

no. they won't call fouls then on iffy plays during the game because it happens too fast and they aren't sure of themselves. why make the call to lose money?

king4day
02-26-2014, 04:37 PM
Suns FO should get a lengthy one from that horror show that was the Rockets game the other night.

Jamiecballer
02-26-2014, 04:40 PM
That is the most dumbest nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Turnovers are a part of the game, not bad calls.

Players don't negatively affect refs with turnovers, but refs DO negatively affect players with bad calls.

Get a clue.
yikes. hate to be your kid. :)

ThuglifeJ
02-26-2014, 04:57 PM
Suns FO should get a lengthy one from that horror show that was the Rockets game the other night.

:clap: +1 Agreed.

mngopher35
02-26-2014, 05:05 PM
Great to see. No way should a ref be docked pay because they make a mistake/bad call. They should get warnings and infractions etc that can lead to other punishment but docking pay for a couple missed calls? Refs are human too you know...

RateSports
02-26-2014, 05:11 PM
That is the most dumbest nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Turnovers are a part of the game, not bad calls.

Players don't negatively affect refs with turnovers, but refs DO negatively affect players with bad calls.

Get a clue.

That argument makes no sense whatsoever.

likemystylez
02-26-2014, 05:16 PM
No. Referees negatively affect a teams chance of winning with bad calls. A player negatively affects a teams chance of winning with bad decisions. They're the same thing.

If a ref calls you for a charge but the guy flopped, it results in the ball being turned over unnecessarily. It was a bad decision by the ref.

If a guy has his feet set and you charge him, it results in the ball being turned over unnecessarily. It was a bad decision by the player.



You're telling me that if a ref calls "goal tending" on a basket that might give a team the lead late in the 4th, but it wasn't actually a goal tend, he should be docked wages. But if a player on that exact same play, actually does goal tend, that's not the same thing?

A bad decision is a bad decision. Whether it's being made by the ref or the player. They're only human. You can't dock wages for a mistake.


I would agree with pretty much all of this- I can understand a ref missing a call or not seeing something. What really bothers me is when the ref "THINKS" he saw something and makes a call based on that. During the warriors game on monday a cross court pass was hit by kyle singler and never touched by curry- but the ref assumed it touched curry. Its one thing not to see something- but if your just gonna guess what might have happened- there should be punishment for that.

If a ref makes a bad call that was proven to be a bad call- and the player gets a technical arguing his case and making an attempt to be treated fairly. The team of refs should have to eat that technical fine and a memo should go out on NBA.com saying that the refs messed up on the call and so and so was right to argue it.

Reverse should be the same, if the player is arguing that he didnt touch the ball on the way out of bounds....or if a player just starts pointing in the direction that benefits his team- he should be called out league wide for someone who's actions are not helping the game be reffed fairly.

likemystylez
02-26-2014, 05:17 PM
Great to see. No way should a ref be docked pay because they make a mistake/bad call. They should get warnings and infractions etc that can lead to other punishment but docking pay for a couple missed calls? Refs are human too you know...

yes- but when they give a technical after making a bad call- they better be 110% sure of their call... if they are going to fine a player for arguing against it

blahblahyoutoo
02-26-2014, 05:49 PM
So we can make 2 1/2 hour games into 4 hour games?

easy. adopt the NFL challenge rules.
each team gets x number of challenges. if the call gets overturned, you're not docked for the challenge. if not overturned, you lose the challenge and a time out. no time outs left? no challenge for you.
no more of this stupid "replays only in the last 2 minutes of a game".

SO SIMPLE, why hasn't it been done yet?

likemystylez
02-26-2014, 05:53 PM
easy. adopt the NFL challenge rules.
each team gets x number of challenges. if the call gets overturned, you're not docked for the challenge. if not overturned, you lose the challenge and a time out. no time outs left? no challenge for you.
no more of this stupid "replays only in the last 2 minutes of a game".

SO SIMPLE, why hasn't it been done yet?

I think the idea is to get the call right though.

If a team is out of time outs- does that mean they dont deserve to keep the ball if infact it was off the opposing team?

Sly Guy
02-26-2014, 06:04 PM
next step is to fire joey crawford?

ThuglifeJ
02-26-2014, 06:07 PM
Challenges make so much sense.

king4day
02-26-2014, 06:18 PM
yes- but when they give a technical after making a bad call- they better be 110% sure of their call... if they are going to fine a player for arguing against it

In a situation like that, the fine should be rescinded. Not the tech because you are still supposed to respect authority.

Goose17
02-26-2014, 06:38 PM
I would agree with pretty much all of this- I can understand a ref missing a call or not seeing something. What really bothers me is when the ref "THINKS" he saw something and makes a call based on that. During the warriors game on monday a cross court pass was hit by kyle singler and never touched by curry- but the ref assumed it touched curry. Its one thing not to see something- but if your just gonna guess what might have happened- there should be punishment for that.

If a ref makes a bad call that was proven to be a bad call- and the player gets a technical arguing his case and making an attempt to be treated fairly. The team of refs should have to eat that technical fine and a memo should go out on NBA.com saying that the refs messed up on the call and so and so was right to argue it.

Reverse should be the same, if the player is arguing that he didnt touch the ball on the way out of bounds....or if a player just starts pointing in the direction that benefits his team- he should be called out league wide for someone who's actions are not helping the game be reffed fairly.

Interesting. I sort of agree with this. But personally I'm not a fan of players/coaches talking to refs in the first place, that's a whole other discussion though.

joshhorvath
02-26-2014, 06:40 PM
if the refs get docked pay for human mistakes... there will be a strike coming soon. then welcome in replacement refs from the D-League or even.... the WNBA. we all remember the refs in the nfl :)

likemystylez
02-26-2014, 07:29 PM
In a situation like that, the fine should be rescinded. Not the tech because you are still supposed to respect authority.

so you are just suppose to allow yourself to be abused? I suppose you could walk up and talk calmly to the refs and say they missed the call- but if they dont change it- at that point you have to do what you have to do to make yourself heard.

Should teams just walk off the floor and refuse to play until the refs review a call and get it right? After all- the refs get paid from the same money that pays the players- if the players arent willing to play when a ref is calling games- it might force the league to clean up his act.

moshy2
02-26-2014, 08:03 PM
then refs will never make the right call then. they'll just let the play go on, on iffy plays. Instead, superstars will take even MORE advantage if the refs aren't going to make calls anymore (b/c of the docked pay for each 'bad' call)

Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I like the idea of sending reports to teams not docking pay. That wouldn't do any good for the refs or the nba

JesusNYY_Savior
02-26-2014, 08:09 PM
How much do they get paid? I don't know about docking their wages, seems a tad extreme. You wouldn't dock a player for turning the ball over, why dock a referee for making a bad call? They're both just innocent mistakes made by humans.

I do think this is the right step though... which team will be the first to pull this data and fire it into their analytic department to try and work out the tendencies of refs before games? lol

That is the most dumbest nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Turnovers are a part of the game, not bad calls.

Players don't negatively affect refs with turnovers, but refs DO negatively affect players with bad calls.

Get a clue.
Stopped reading after "most dumbest nonsensical thing"

mngopher35
02-26-2014, 08:21 PM
yes- but when they give a technical after making a bad call- they better be 110% sure of their call... if they are going to fine a player for arguing against it

I actually really do hate when this happens. I don't fining a ref is the right move still though. It should definitely warrant some type of warning etc. I mean the player shouldn't be allowed to just sit there yelling/cursing at the ref because of a mistake.

If the ref gives out a very weak technical after a situation like this it should definitely be a punishment though I agree. I hate that.

likemystylez
02-26-2014, 08:32 PM
I actually really do hate when this happens. I don't fining a ref is the right move still though. It should definitely warrant some type of warning etc. I mean the player shouldn't be allowed to just sit there yelling/cursing at the ref because of a mistake.

If the ref gives out a very weak technical after a situation like this it should definitely be a punishment though I agree. I hate that.

So what should the player do... just walk off the floor and refuse to play?

king4day
02-26-2014, 08:36 PM
so you are just suppose to allow yourself to be abused? I suppose you could walk up and talk calmly to the refs and say they missed the call- but if they dont change it- at that point you have to do what you have to do to make yourself heard.

Should teams just walk off the floor and refuse to play until the refs review a call and get it right? After all- the refs get paid from the same money that pays the players- if the players arent willing to play when a ref is calling games- it might force the league to clean up his act.

If they were to review the call realtime, i'd agree. But they don't. At the time of incident, you don't know what the end result will be. Players have bad things called against them al the time and handle it as well as you can without getting T'd up.
Rescinding the fine means they admitted messing up. Maybe allow them another T before they start getting suspended if they hit the limit too.

When a player complains about 10 calls and only 1 was a valid complaint (after reviews), the refs aren't going to take that person seriously. That's not the type of noise you want to be heard.

likemystylez
02-26-2014, 08:41 PM
If they were to review the call realtime, i'd agree. But they don't. At the time of incident, you don't know what the end result will be. Players have bad things called against them al the time and handle it as well as you can without getting T'd up.
Rescinding the fine means they admitted messing up. Maybe allow them another T before they start getting suspended if they hit the limit too.

When a player complains about 10 calls and only 1 was a valid complaint (after reviews), the refs aren't going to take that person seriously. That's not the type of noise you want to be heard.


I addressed that actually. If a player is caught pointing in the direction that benefits his team, but it clearly goes off him or one of his team mates- he should be called out for being a player who isnt interested in the game being called fairly, he just wants every call to benefit him/ his team.

blahblahyoutoo
02-26-2014, 08:51 PM
I think the idea is to get the call right though.

If a team is out of time outs- does that mean they dont deserve to keep the ball if infact it was off the opposing team?

ok, if they still have a challenge left but are out of time outs, then let them use it and if they are wrong, the other team shoots a T.

0nekhmer
02-26-2014, 08:53 PM
Have any of you experts had experience as a ref? It's not as easy as it looks from your view on the couch. This is a great first step that will hopefully weed out bad refs

Goose17
02-26-2014, 08:56 PM
The problem is, a ref isn't going to change their opinion because a player is shouting that they're wrong.

Hypothetical situation;

Indiana vs Miami, the ball goes out off George, but George shouts and screams that it was off Lebron. The ref changes his mind and rules in favour of Indiana.

Now what? The ref gets called out for changing his mind? The player gets called out for making the ref change his mind? They both get fined?



It's simple;

- Players don't talk to the refs. You don't even say good morning. If you talk to the refs, you get a technical.

- Coaches are allowed four "challenges" per game.

- If a coach see's a 50/50 call go against them that they think is wrong, they are allowed to "challenge" it. The refs are given 30 seconds to get together, view a replay and decide if it was the right call. Obviously if they're "challenging" a shot (i.e foot was on the line, 2 not 3) then it can be challenged, marked and looked at during the next stoppage.

- Coaches have no challenges in the first, one in the second, one in the third, two in the fourth. They don't carry over, so you can't not use any and have four in the fourth.

- If a coach issues a "challenge" and it turns out that the initial ruling was correct, they receive one less challenge for the next game. This should deter people from "challenging" to try and buy time or using it because they have no timeouts left (or after repeated failed challenges, the opponent shoots a free throw)

Goose17
02-26-2014, 08:58 PM
Have any of you experts had experience as a ref? It's not as easy as it looks from your view on the couch. This is a great first step that will hopefully weed out bad refs

This^

likemystylez
02-26-2014, 09:04 PM
Have any of you experts had experience as a ref? It's not as easy as it looks from your view on the couch. This is a great first step that will hopefully weed out bad refs

The players dont have an easy job either- often times they have to answer questions on why they made a certain decision on a play, or guarded a guy this way instead of that way- and it lead to a loss.

There should be some public accountability on the refs, and they should have to explain a call and eventually be held accountable for a bad call. they say they are - but every yr I see the same refs out there blowing the same calls and joey crawford continues to be in important playoff games T-ing up guys on the bench instead of watching the players on the floor.

king4day
02-26-2014, 09:08 PM
I addressed that actually. If a player is caught pointing in the direction that benefits his team, but it clearly goes off him or one of his team mates- he should be called out for being a player who isnt interested in the game being called fairly, he just wants every call to benefit him/ his team.

Ahh my fault. Good call

I've noticed this in the rec league games I play in. If the refs aren't familiar with you are you are the complainer all the time, you do more bad than good for yourself and team long term.

mngopher35
02-26-2014, 09:45 PM
So what should the player do... just walk off the floor and refuse to play?

No, talk to the ref and let him know he was wrong and what actually happened (and ask what the ref saw). Yelling/Cursing/Complaining isn't going to get the ref to change his mind anyways so just move on. Players complain all the time and they are wrong too. You can't just start fining everyone when they are wrong or make a mistake that would be ridiculous.

If they adopt a warning/penalty system players will know that the ref will get taken care of later (this seems like a step in that direction). I do not think players should have the right to sit there and whine non-stop because one thing didn't go their way. Every time someone makes an error at work do you start screaming/swearing?

I feel like people still don't understand that these are humans making snap decisions that sometime video can't even clearly show. Yes I think they should be held accountable which is why I like this, but let's not go crazy.

NBA_Starter
02-26-2014, 09:46 PM
It is amazing to me that the NBA is acknowledging that there are blown calls.

mngopher35
02-26-2014, 09:49 PM
I am completely fine with making refs answer questions about calls after games etc.

hornetsfansydne
02-27-2014, 01:53 AM
Ok from reading this not many people have any idea whatsoever it is like to be a referee or that evaluations are actually done on games and that performances do go into future appointments. So a brief overview of how the system works
1. Players have coaches yes? Well so do referees! Also known as a referee coach
2. These referee coaches will assess the performance of the referees on each and every game, going into things like court mechanics (where the referee stands/when they move/why they moved), player/coach management when arguing calls and if the actual calls were correct.
3. Players have video review sessions to evaluate the teams performance. Again so do referees!

Hopefully this clears things up for a few people

hornetsfansydne
02-27-2014, 01:55 AM
I would agree with pretty much all of this- I can understand a ref missing a call or not seeing something. What really bothers me is when the ref "THINKS" he saw something and makes a call based on that. During the warriors game on monday a cross court pass was hit by kyle singler and never touched by curry- but the ref assumed it touched curry. Its one thing not to see something- but if your just gonna guess what might have happened- there should be punishment for that.

If a ref makes a bad call that was proven to be a bad call- and the player gets a technical arguing his case and making an attempt to be treated fairly. The team of refs should have to eat that technical fine and a memo should go out on NBA.com saying that the refs messed up on the call and so and so was right to argue it.

Reverse should be the same, if the player is arguing that he didnt touch the ball on the way out of bounds....or if a player just starts pointing in the direction that benefits his team- he should be called out league wide for someone who's actions are not helping the game be reffed fairly.

Whether the referee is right or wrong does NOT give a player the right to argue a call in any situation! Remember these guys are humans and mistakes can and are made. From the games I watch, the vast majority of calls are correct

Deception
02-27-2014, 02:20 AM
My docking pay wasn't on the scale that players are fined, players make millions of dollars and are fined thousands. Basically if a ref makes a bad call or over extends his power, dock him a couple hundred. We hold players and coaches responsible for conduct on the court, why not the refs?

mngopher35
02-27-2014, 02:37 AM
My docking pay wasn't on the scale that players are fined, players make millions of dollars and are fined thousands. Basically if a ref makes a bad call or over extends his power, dock him a couple hundred. We hold players and coaches responsible for conduct on the court, why not the refs?

Is a coach fined when he makes a bad play call? What about a player who turns the ball over as someone mentioned? Coaches and Players don't get fined for making mistakes while doing their jobs, they get fined for acting up or speaking out etc. If a ref starts whining and swearing, holding up the game, and making a scene sure give him a fine.

Deception
02-27-2014, 02:45 AM
Is a coach fined when he makes a bad play call? What about a player who turns the ball over as someone mentioned? Coaches and Players don't get fined for making mistakes while doing their jobs, they get fined for acting up or speaking out etc. If a ref starts whining and swearing, holding up the game, and making a scene sure give him a fine.

Turning the ball over is a terrible example. Players get fined for the socks they wear, the attitude on the court, the disrespect to the refs. The refs deserve to have some form of discipline on them, whether it be a tally system that after a certain amount mistakes, they receive a punishment such as a less amount of games allowed to be officiated. I'm sorry but if refs are not going to be held accountable for their calls then the game is allowed to be dictated by the refs not the players.

hornetsfansydne
02-27-2014, 03:09 AM
My docking pay wasn't on the scale that players are fined, players make millions of dollars and are fined thousands. Basically if a ref makes a bad call or over extends his power, dock him a couple hundred. We hold players and coaches responsible for conduct on the court, why not the refs?

Players are fined for behavioural issues not errors. If a referee has behavioural issues on or off the court then I am all for fines/suspensions but as players aren't fined for missing shots or turning the ball over then referees should not be fined for mistakes. And even then they make very few errors when considering the large number of calls in a game

And remember, referees have a split second to make a decision. Was that contact? Was it enough contact to call a foul? Did he shuffle his feet on the takeoff?
Whereas we as viewers get the instant benefit of many replays of the play and a different angle on the play to the officials

Goose17
02-27-2014, 07:41 AM
Players are fined for behavioural issues not errors. If a referee has behavioural issues on or off the court then I am all for fines/suspensions but as players aren't fined for missing shots or turning the ball over then referees should not be fined for mistakes. And even then they make very few errors when considering the large number of calls in a game

And remember, referees have a split second to make a decision. Was that contact? Was it enough contact to call a foul? Did he shuffle his feet on the takeoff?
Whereas we as viewers get the instant benefit of many replays of the play and a different angle on the play to the officials

Listen to the man^ He's speaking the truth right now.

Slade123
02-27-2014, 10:04 AM
That is the most dumbest nonsensical thing I have ever heard.

Turnovers are a part of the game, not bad calls.

Players don't negatively affect refs with turnovers, but refs DO negatively affect players with bad calls.

Get a clue.

Players negatively affect their team with turnovers just like refs do with bad officiating. Maybe you're the one that needs to get a clue.

But I don't think they should get their pay cut. Maybe something like 3 strikes then they get suspended for one or more games. Blatant calls or non-calls that affect which team wins should be an automatic suspension.

likemystylez
02-27-2014, 01:53 PM
Players negatively affect their team with turnovers just like refs do with bad officiating. Maybe you're the one that needs to get a clue.

But I don't think they should get their pay cut. Maybe something like 3 strikes then they get suspended for one or more games. Blatant calls or non-calls that affect which team wins should be an automatic suspension.

LOl what is a blatant non call? If a ref didnt see something, he didnt see it. You could make the case that any bad call could lead to a team losing or winning.

D-Leethal
02-27-2014, 01:57 PM
Docking their pay for bad calls? Do we dock the players pay for bad shots?

likemystylez
02-27-2014, 01:58 PM
It is amazing to me that the NBA is acknowledging that there are blown calls.

well they show instant replays in games, and on sports center- The jordan push off on Byron Russell has been well documented and every hoops fan on the planet is well aware of it

D-Leethal
02-27-2014, 01:58 PM
Human beings refereeing a basketball game is going to lead to some bad calls. You don't subtract their pay for being human instead of a computer.

likemystylez
02-27-2014, 01:59 PM
Docking their pay for bad calls? Do we dock the players pay for bad shots?

LOL- its all relative though. A bad shot for some players might be better than a good shot for any of their team mates.

RateSports
02-27-2014, 01:59 PM
Ok from reading this not many people have any idea whatsoever it is like to be a referee or that evaluations are actually done on games and that performances do go into future appointments. So a brief overview of how the system works
1. Players have coaches yes? Well so do referees! Also known as a referee coach
2. These referee coaches will assess the performance of the referees on each and every game, going into things like court mechanics (where the referee stands/when they move/why they moved), player/coach management when arguing calls and if the actual calls were correct.
3. Players have video review sessions to evaluate the teams performance. Again so do referees!

Hopefully this clears things up for a few people

Most of this is sort of true.

My dad is a basketball and football ref (both at a very high level).

He does not have a referee coach. He has a supervisor (as do all major conferences/leagues). The supervisors deem whether a call is correct or not and provide the referee with information (see play under the basket at 1:33 left in the 1st quarter) for example. They also provided weekly conference calls that take place between the supervisor, the crew of officials (if its football, etc.).

Video review sessions exist but for basketball are done by the users themselves. Every crew of officials has a grader that travels with them to the game, and they submit the officials grades to the league office pending review by the boss.

likemystylez
02-27-2014, 02:00 PM
Human beings refereeing a basketball game is going to lead to some bad calls. You don't subtract their pay for being human instead of a computer.

it becomes an issue when all the bad calls seem to go in one teams direction, and superstars never foul out of games and are at the line any time they drive

D-Leethal
02-27-2014, 02:11 PM
LOL- its all relative though. A bad shot for some players might be better than a good shot for any of their team mates.

The point is - you don't fine people for making an error that is guaranteed to occur due to the nature of the job. Its completely unreasonable to expect the refs, even if they are the best in the world, to nail every call in a fast paced 5 on 5 basketball game. Its completely unreasonable to expect a player, even if they are the best in the world, not never take a bad shot. People shouldn't get fined for expected human error.

Also, a bad call from the ref in the best position to make the call is better than a bad call from a ref on the opposite side of the court. What the hell is your point?

likemystylez
02-27-2014, 02:17 PM
The point is - you don't fine people for making an error that is guaranteed to occur due to the nature of the job. Its completely unreasonable to expect the refs, even if they are the best in the world, to nail every call in a fast paced 5 on 5 basketball game. Its completely unreasonable to expect a player, even if they are the best in the world, not never take a bad shot. People shouldn't get fined for expected human error.

Also, a bad call from the ref in the best position to make the call is better than a bad call from a ref on the opposite side of the court. What the hell is your point?

The point is- Often times the ref on the other side of the court makes that call- while the ref next to the play sees it as clean

bearadonisdna
02-27-2014, 07:22 PM
Love that they are trying to clean up the officiating which is a big part of the sport. Docking pay seems unlikely and unfair, the guy is still there using his time which that in itself deserves pay. He aint calling the game for free. Tho i wouldnt mind seeing my most hated refs go to the poor house lol.

mngopher35
02-27-2014, 08:29 PM
Turning the ball over is a terrible example. Players get fined for the socks they wear, the attitude on the court, the disrespect to the refs. The refs deserve to have some form of discipline on them, whether it be a tally system that after a certain amount mistakes, they receive a punishment such as a less amount of games allowed to be officiated. I'm sorry but if refs are not going to be held accountable for their calls then the game is allowed to be dictated by the refs not the players.

Not really, A basketball player gets paid to play on the court (turnovers fall under this) and a ref gets paid to manage the game (make foul calls). Each is just a mistake while trying to do what they get paid for. As someone pointed out your examples are due to behavior/attitude issues, not just mistakes while doing their job. We can fine refs for that type of stuff, no problem with me.

I agree refs should be accountable but once again just fining them for mistakes is ridiculous.