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View Full Version : Old School Question of the Day: Whatever happened to the 25 assist game?



JasonJohnHorn
02-23-2014, 10:20 AM
On this day in 1987, Nate McMillon posted 25 assists in a single game.

Since 1985 this has only happened 7 times: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_eds=Y&round_is_edf=Y&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wds=Y&round_is_wdf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=ast&c1comp=gt&c1val=25&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Three of those occasions, it was John Stockton with 28, 27 and 26 assists respectively.

Scott Skiles set the NBA record with 30. Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd have also reached the bench mark.

There is not a single current NBA player, though, who has ever posted 25 assists, and it has not happened in 96: 18 years ago.


Are there simply not enough possessions in a game to do this anymore? Or is there a player you think is capable of pulling this off again? And is Skiles's record an unbreakable one?

Chrisclover
02-23-2014, 10:37 AM
Ramon Sessions posted similar assists a few years ago .
But why does racking up assists becoming extremely difficult ?Maybe this has to do with the promotion of stars,which has resulted in more individual performance ,like driving to the lane to draw fouls ,which will decrease the assists total of not only another player but also the whole team .
Pussyfication of NBA ?

JasonJohnHorn
02-23-2014, 01:46 PM
Ramon Sessions posted similar assists a few years ago .
But why does racking up assists becoming extremely difficult ?Maybe this has to do with the promotion of stars,which has resulted in more individual performance ,like driving to the lane to draw fouls ,which will decrease the assists total of not only another player but also the whole team .
Pussyfication of NBA ?

+1

everybody wants 2 b jordan

Minimal
02-23-2014, 01:54 PM
Rajon Rondo got 24 assists just a couple years ago, 1 shy

KnicksorBust
02-23-2014, 02:09 PM
On this day in 1987, Nate McMillon posted 25 assists in a single game.

Since 1985 this has only happened 7 times: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_eds=Y&round_is_edf=Y&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wds=Y&round_is_wdf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=ast&c1comp=gt&c1val=25&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Three of those occasions, it was John Stockton with 28, 27 and 26 assists respectively.

Scott Skiles set the NBA record with 30. Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd have also reached the bench mark.

There is not a single current NBA player, though, who has ever posted 25 assists, and it has not happened in 96: 18 years ago.


Are there simply not enough possessions in a game to do this anymore? Or is there a player you think is capable of pulling this off again? And is Skiles's record an unbreakable one?

I think the possessions is part of it but also is the fact that there are SO many scoring point guards and hybrid athletic guards that would rather finish the play themselves than dish.

Rondo-Rubio are the only two that have a shot.

Hellcrooner
02-23-2014, 03:02 PM
point guards are a bunch of chuckers nowdays + tigher defense been played + a lot of stupid threepointers being shot wich leads to more assits to be spoiled by a miss.


Nash or Kidd SHOULD have had a 25 asists game tough.

Nowdays............Rondo or Rubio( K Marshall or Jose calderón long shot) could maybe do it.

the rest of the pg are too focused on get their own points.

ManRam
02-23-2014, 03:07 PM
point guards are a bunch of chuckers nowdays + tigher defense been played + a lot of stupid threepointers being shot wich leads to more assits to be spoiled by a miss.


Nash or Kidd SHOULD have had a 25 asists game tough.

Nowdays............Rondo or Rubio( K Marshall or Jose calderón long shot) could maybe do it.

the rest of the pg are too focused on get their own points.

I think it's more of a realization that having a PG that can also score is an asset :shrug:

The notion that "true PGs" are the only PGs that work is dead. As it should be. There are a few left, but most have improved scoring abilities. Now that dumb phrase is mostly used to explain PGs who can't score so they just pass it a ton. Also, offenses as a whole have advanced beyond the point where many teams just rely on one PG to do all the passing and creating. Now you have teams, most obviously the Heat, who zip the ball around as a unit and everyone can pass and create. Again, an improvement.

abe_froman
02-23-2014, 03:21 PM
there have been tons of 20+ assist games since,but its difficult and there are tons of factors like team mates finishing plays and ,the subjective nature of how/when assists are counted,how long a player is in the game to stat pad,ect.

you talk of skiles 30 assist game but he played damn near the entire game in a blow out

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-23-2014, 03:30 PM
Kndall Marshall with good teammates lol

JasonJohnHorn
02-23-2014, 07:36 PM
I think it's more of a realization that having a PG that can also score is an asset :shrug:

The notion that "true PGs" are the only PGs that work is dead. As it should be. There are a few left, but most have improved scoring abilities. Now that dumb phrase is mostly used to explain PGs who can't score so they just pass it a ton. Also, offenses as a whole have advanced beyond the point where many teams just rely on one PG to do all the passing and creating. Now you have teams, most obviously the Heat, who zip the ball around as a unit and everyone can pass and create. Again, an improvement.


I agree, but I think the 'true point guard' is the most effective, though we may have different definitions of what that is.


Magic Johnson was a true point guard, as is CP3. These are guys that CAN and WILL score, but for whom scoring is not important. Stockton fits in here as well, as does Nash and Kidd. Is Nash drives and the defences back down, he knows his pull-up jumper is spot on, he takes it, but he also knows that when he's running the pick and roll, like he did with Amare, that getting the ball to the guy with the open lane is the better shot, so unless a defender is blocking the way, he's making the pass.

This is how Paul works the ball too. He knows how he can score effectively, and he knows when his teammates are in a better position to score and he makes sure the ball goes into the hands of the person in the best position to score. For me, THAT is what a 'true point guard' is. Tony Parker will never average the kind of assists that Rondo and CP3 put up, but he has the same approach. They share the ball a little more in SAS, so everybody gets to set up other guys, but it's about finding the best scoring option for the team.

The 'past first' approach had hurt as much as help if you are passing it to the wrong person, just as the 'score first' approach can be ineffective.

You offer Miami as an example, and they work. They have Wade and James who bring the ball up a lot, and they are great iso players, but even when they run iso plays, they are always looking for the best way to score. If that means taking it to the hole, they do it. If it means passing the ball, they do it. There is a lot of ball movement. You don't need a 'point guard', but a 'point forward' or a 'point shooting guard' works as well when the same approach is used.

It is all about the TEAM scoring, and I think over the years we've all seen enough guys like Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury and Brandon Jennings, that we don't just want to see a point guad average 20+ points on 6 assists with a FG% south or .450.


The NBA is changing, big guys can handle the ball (James, Noah, Gasol, ect) and a lot of point guards like to score (Westbrook, Rose), so it may be a while before we see a 25 assist game again, but it will happen.

Hellcrooner
02-23-2014, 07:59 PM
the culture of " i eat first" " iso the star , iso the star, iso the star" added to tigher defense and the fact that nobody cares bout passing it to the open man or the hot hand of the night has a direct influence in making 25 asits more difficult to get.

Also, bigger rotations, back then in the70s 80s rotations were shorter and barring injury/foul trouble starters + 2 more men ate the bulk of the minutes.

Nowdays you got at least 9-10 players getting some real minutes.

Also, to consider the abuse of the three point shot that didnt happen back then, 3p are a more inefficient shot to make even if the reward of making it is nice ,. you give tha ball inside or into a jumpshot and you will more likely get an asists that if you give it to a dude shooting a 3p shot.

And last but not least, the demise of the big men game, if you pound the ball inside its more probable that the shot of the plqayer goes in, but nowday its all bout wings and jumpers even for big men.

KnicksorBust
02-23-2014, 08:36 PM
the culture of " i eat first" " iso the star , iso the star, iso the star" added to tigher defense and the fact that nobody cares bout passing it to the open man or the hot hand of the night has a direct influence in making 25 asits more difficult to get.

Also, bigger rotations, back then in the70s 80s rotations were shorter and barring injury/foul trouble starters + 2 more men ate the bulk of the minutes.

Nowdays you got at least 9-10 players getting some real minutes.

Also, to consider the abuse of the three point shot that didnt happen back then, 3p are a more inefficient shot to make even if the reward of making it is nice ,. you give tha ball inside or into a jumpshot and you will more likely get an asists that if you give it to a dude shooting a 3p shot.

And last but not least, the demise of the big men game, if you pound the ball inside its more probable that the shot of the plqayer goes in, but nowday its all bout wings and jumpers even for big men.

3's are more efficient than post-ups. What are you talking about?

D-Leethal
02-23-2014, 09:12 PM
Chris Duhon had 24 a few years ago and set the Knick record. I was at the game.

JJ_JKidd
02-23-2014, 09:27 PM
Ramon Sessions posted similar assists a few years ago .
But why does racking up assists becoming extremely difficult ?Maybe this has to do with the promotion of stars,which has resulted in more individual performance ,like driving to the lane to draw fouls ,which will decrease the assists total of not only another player but also the whole team .
Pussyfication of NBA ?

You mean flopping to the lane to fish for a foul?

John Walls Era
02-23-2014, 09:29 PM
I think the possessions is part of it but also is the fact that there are SO many scoring point guards and hybrid athletic guards that would rather finish the play themselves than dish.

Rondo-Rubio are the only two that have a shot.

Rubio has no shot. Literally and figuratively.

JasonJohnHorn
02-23-2014, 10:18 PM
Rubio has no shot. Literally and figuratively.


lol


true true

Chrisclover
02-23-2014, 11:02 PM
You mean flopping to the lane to fish for a foul?
kind of.I think the NBA is trying very hard to let good players to blossom into stars, stars into superstars,namely ,by giving some of them more FTs than it should be.Compared to the past ,the focus is more on certain players instead of the whole team,which is easy to understand the decrease of assists.Not that the coaches are of a showing style ,but when they know the league is favoring the flashy plays of stars ,naturally they will opt for stars -oriented strategies, which maybe against their personal believes but is not a big issue for the sake of keeping their jobs.

Chrisclover
02-23-2014, 11:08 PM
+1

everybody wants 2 b jordan

Jordan had changed the whole league in every way .He was the idol for NBA fans worldwide ,interestingly ,some of whom has became NBA players ,even stars.Yea ,all players want to be as phenomenal as Jordan.And the league is giving them invisible helps:D The unspoken rule is that if you are a rising star ,you will be taken care of .

slashsnake
02-23-2014, 11:39 PM
Just some idea's..

I wonder if it has happened with the way the game changed. The drive and dish isn't as popular. A lot fewer 7 footers hanging in the lane forcing guards to kick it back out.

Maybe another part is the change of the point position. A guy like Anthony Mason or Scottie Pippen was a pretty wild thing to see bringing up the ball and running the offense. Now it seems every team has a point forward taking it up. The Stockton, ball in his hands 90% of the time kind of PG has died off quite a bit. It was him bringing it up, running the play, kicking it either for a shot or if it wasn't there, get it back to Stockton to run a new play and distribute to someone else. Now multiple guys are taking that role.

Chronz
02-24-2014, 01:12 AM
More of a TEAM game and less possessions = less individual assists ?