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DreamShaker
02-23-2014, 02:43 AM
I was just having a debate in another sports group about the top 5 greatest power forwards of All-Time, and if Dirk was top 5. I made my list of Duncan, Barkley, Malone, KG, and Bob Pettit with Dirk at number 6. Someone had previously listed Elvin Hayes and I gotta tell you....I forget about him way too much in lists of all-time greats. Possibly because the ABA-NBA stuff divided the great players in a good chunk of the 70's. I dunno. Anywhoo, there are just some guys who people tend to forget about. I feel like most point guards in the 90's not named Stockton or Payton are often overlooked (Mark Price, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, ect.). There are just some guys who fly under the radar for one reason or another. So who are some of the greats people tend to forget about? And who are some guys from this generation people might already overlook, and probably further overlook as time passes on?

mdm692
02-23-2014, 03:01 AM
Bernard King. He was a ****ing beast and had he not suffered that horrible injury the knicks might of had 2-3 rings during his tenure as a knick.

Cal827
02-23-2014, 03:09 AM
I don't like him too much, but Patrick Ewing definitely comes to mind. He was a great player, but was overshadowed mainly by the crazy Bulls teams during the 90s. If they aren't around, the Knicks might have a few recent rings.

Mcgrady seems like someone who we will eventually overlook. Allen Iverson too.

Steve Nash might be looked at in the future as that guy who robbed Shaq and Kobe in consecutive years of MVPs. Due to the two guys being looked at as top 5 or 10 players of all time, and Nash didn't only lose the best player in the league title, but the PG title as well (as Paul and Williams had come to form)

abe_froman
02-23-2014, 03:19 AM
whenever this topic gets brought up the name that comes to my mind first is chet walker


some others-bob lanier,jack sikma,gus johnson,spencer haywood,mark aguirre,alex english,wes unseld,walt bellamy,bob mcdoo,buck williams,lou hudson,marques johnson,bob petit,hal greer,i could go on and on with this one haha

slashsnake
02-23-2014, 03:28 AM
Ewing kind of stands out for me.. I don't see him getting forgotton. What about David Robinson though. Face of the franchise and elite guy, but gets overshadowed with Duncan's career.


Not seeing Moses Malone on that top 6 PF list has me thinking he's forgotten. 13 time all star, 3 time MVP, finals MVP... He grabbed more rebounds than Kareem, made more shots than Duncan, played in more games than Kidd, got to the line more than Kobe or Jordan, and scored more points than Shaq in his career. He retired 2nd in scoring, 3rd in boards.

abe_froman
02-23-2014, 03:32 AM
Not seeing Moses Malone on that top 6 PF list has me thinking he's forgotten. .
moses wasnt there because he was a center,not a pf and dont really think he's forgotten at all as he's widely regarded as top 10 center

slashsnake
02-23-2014, 03:42 AM
Yeah I guess you are right some years with guys like Kunnert or Caldwell Jones he played more of a PF, but it was kind of like Duncan, where he was at the position more in name than anything. But it is kind of funny that his name doesn't come up more often.

But I think he'd be a lot closer to the bottom of that top ten. It seems like the centers of the 90's (Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson), all have carried on through the years a lot better than he did.

abe_froman
02-23-2014, 03:50 AM
Yeah I guess you are right some years with guys like Kunnert or Caldwell Jones he played more of a PF, but it was kind of like Duncan, where he was at the position more in name than anything. But it is kind of funny that his name doesn't come up more often.

But I think he'd be a lot closer to the bottom of that top ten. It seems like the centers of the 90's (Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson), all have carried on through the years a lot better than he did.
i dunno about that,last time we did an all time list he came in at like 12th greatest player of all time

b@llhog24
02-23-2014, 03:58 AM
Yeah I guess you are right some years with guys like Kunnert or Caldwell Jones he played more of a PF, but it was kind of like Duncan, where he was at the position more in name than anything. But it is kind of funny that his name doesn't come up more often.

But I think he'd be a lot closer to the bottom of that top ten. It seems like the centers of the 90's (Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson), all have carried on through the years a lot better than he did.

Nobody ever ranks Ewing above either of the Malones. Ever.

b@llhog24
02-23-2014, 03:58 AM
i dunno about that,last time we did an all time list he came in at like 12th greatest player of all time

We really need to do that list again. Created some great discussion last time.

b@llhog24
02-23-2014, 03:59 AM
As far as the OP question goes:

Jerry West
Frazier
McHale
Barkley
DRob
Baylor

b@llhog24
02-23-2014, 04:00 AM
Oh and Pettit.

slashsnake
02-23-2014, 04:02 AM
Nobody ever ranks Ewing above either of the Malones. Ever.

Maybe not anyone who really really follows the game, but I would say Ewing has carried on much better as the OP said of not being forgotten by the average fan than Malone.

b@llhog24
02-23-2014, 04:07 AM
Maybe not anyone who really really follows the game, but I would say Ewing has carried on much better as the OP said of not being forgotten by the average fan than Malone.

My bad misinterpreted what you were saying.

DreamShaker
02-23-2014, 04:40 AM
Some great replies so far!! Chet Walker is a guy I only recently discovered. Sikma is another guy who really is rarely talked about. Even with his beautiful perm.

One guy who is still active I think is already being forgotten is Shawn Marion. The guy is so unique, and he was awesome with the Suns. He also played a big role on that Mavs championship team.

As far as past guys go...Rick Barry, Nate Thurmond, Sidney Moncrief, Mo Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, Dave Cowens, Jerry Lucas, Hal Greer, Dolph Schayes, Artis Gilmore, Rolando Blackmon, Dan Issel, and Brad Daughery are some forgotten names.

MTar786
02-23-2014, 04:45 AM
tmac will be forgotten. ai is pretty much forgotten. Webber and peja are forgotten too.
mitch richmond is forgottentim hardaway is pretty much too. tons of players become a thought of the past

tmacsc2
02-23-2014, 05:56 AM
Detlef Schrempf FTW

Chronz
02-23-2014, 07:06 AM
Chet Walker is a great choice. Elvin Hayes was a horrible one

NoahH
02-23-2014, 12:50 PM
Dont forget about Fat Lever, World B. Free, Pooh Richardson, Sleepy Floyd, Uwe Blab & Sick Watts

KnicksorBust
02-23-2014, 12:57 PM
Just going off players. I saw a lot of:

Pg - KJ
Sg - Moncrief
Sf - Muffin
Pf - Malone
C - Ewing

Cal827
02-23-2014, 04:24 PM
Just going off players. I saw a lot of:

Pg - KJ
Sg - Moncrief
Sf - Muffin
Pf - Malone
C - Ewing

Good list, just the Malone one I would be iffy on. Since Stockton pretty much is the bar when it comes to Pass First PG, I think that he'll be harder to forget due to the association with Stockton. He's also up there when it comes to points in a Career (He's 2nd still I believe), so when Lebron is rising up the overall points number, we'll hear more of him lol

KnicksorBust
02-23-2014, 04:34 PM
Just going off players. I saw a lot of:

Pg - KJ
Sg - Moncrief
Sf - Muffin
Pf - Malone
C - Ewing

Good list, just the Malone one I would be iffy on. Since Stockton pretty much is the bar when it comes to Pass First PG, I think that he'll be harder to forget due to the association with Stockton. He's also up there when it comes to points in a Career (He's 2nd still I believe), so when Lebron is rising up the overall points number, we'll hear more of him lol

Recently it seems like he has been sliding down the PF list almost out of the top 5 and as time goes by I think it will be worse when in reality he is only behind Duncan.

abe_froman
02-23-2014, 04:42 PM
Recently it seems like he has been sliding down the PF list almost out of the top 5 and as time goes by I think it will be worse when in reality he is only behind Duncan.

i dont think you can say that definitively. barkley,kg,dirk all have cases that can be made over him,they are all on the same tier and can basically go in any order and not really be wrong ...though makes for fun arguments

Hellcrooner
02-23-2014, 05:29 PM
People i think does not get enough credit nowdays 50s-80s.

Mikan
MIkkelsen
JIm Pollard
Lovelette
Thurmond
Baylor
Artis Gilmore
Rick Barry
Havlicek
Dave Cowens
Hayes
Unseld
bernard King
English
Gervin
Nance
Chambers
Price
daugherty
Vandeweghe
Issell
D Thompson
Blackman
Aguirre
Earl Monroe
Frazier
W b Free
and many others.

Hellcrooner
02-23-2014, 05:30 PM
Dont forget about Fat Lever, World B. Free, Pooh Richardson, Sleepy Floyd, Uwe Blab & Sick Watts

blab?

Yep seriously, Mavs fan should never ever forget people they passed by in the draft when they got uwe
:D

mightybosstone
02-23-2014, 06:04 PM
I don't think Havlicek gets nearly enough credit or recognition in most all-time great discussions. When people talk about the 60s and 70s, they talk about Russell, Wilt, West, Oscar and Kareem, but I don't hear nearly enough credit given to Havlicek. The man was the No. 1 offensive guy on both the late 60s championship Celtics teams and mid-70s Celtics teams. That's a rare accomplishment that few players have ever received. I also wished I could have been around to see those Frazier, Reed, Debusschere, Monroe Knicks teams. All of those guys tend to get lost in the shuffle, but I'd easily put Hondo in my top 5 all-time SF list, Frazier in my top 5-10 PGs and Reed in my top 10 centers.

Two guys who haven't been out of the league that long that I feel like I've already forgotten are Chris Webber and Grant Hill, despite having really strong peaks.

As for current guys I think may get lost as the years go by, Chauncey Billups comes to mind. He was a great player who was so good at so many things but never great at any one thing in particular. Guys like McGrady and Carter will be remembered for their highlight reels, but I wonder if people will recall how good they were at their peaks. McGrady was probably a top 5 guy in the league in his prime. I'm also really worried people will forget Yao 10-15 years from now. He was such a unique player, but his career was so short-lived. I don't think there's ever going to be a player that tall that's that skilled ever again in the NBA.

Hawkeye15
02-23-2014, 06:54 PM
From when I watched, I always thought Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Mark Price, DRob, and McHale are never talked about.

Bostonjorge
02-23-2014, 11:00 PM
Don't know if theses guys are forgotten but guys that uses to ball at a high level at one point.

Mitch Richmond
Mike Bibby
Cris Mullen
Baron Davis
Steve Francis
Latrell sprewell
Allen Houston
Michael Finley
Terrell Brandon

tredigs
02-24-2014, 03:57 AM
Love that you threw Pettit in there as part of the top 5 Dream. One of my favorite old school history ballers.

DreamShaker
02-24-2014, 06:31 AM
Chet Walker is a great choice. Eluvin Hayes was a horrible one

Care to expand? I honestly don't know much about Hayes, very mixed reactions on him from people who talk about him.

DreamShaker
02-24-2014, 06:36 AM
Love that you threw Pettit in there as part of the top 5 Dream. One of my favorite old school history ballers.

I watched a short Doc on him recently...really enjoyed it. He has always been a guy who caught my attention when looking at the greats.

mightybosstone
02-24-2014, 09:51 AM
Love that you threw Pettit in there as part of the top 5 Dream. One of my favorite old school history ballers.
I think Pettit deserves more credit than Mikan, because at least he played the majority of his career post shot clock era, but I have a hard time taking those guys seriously in an all-time discussion. During last year's all-time re-draft, someone found footage of a 50s NBA game with Mikan, and it was some truly atrocious basketball. It looked like two bad midwestern high school teams. Pettit was certainly skilled, but I don't think for a second that he was as skilled as guys like Duncan, Barkley, Dirk or McHale.

JasonJohnHorn
02-24-2014, 10:14 AM
Two power forwards that come to mind are Larry Nance and Otis Thorpe, Nance especially. These guys were AMAZING! They would both likely rank among the very best power forwards today, behind only Griffin and Love, or perhaps even on a par with them in Nance's case.

But yeah, lots of great point guards back then: Hardaway, Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Terry Porter, Mark Price. Mark Jackson, Doc Rivers Dana Barros, Mookie Blaylock... these guys would tear it up today. And a lot of them were much better shooters than the point guards today.

asandhu23
02-24-2014, 10:48 AM
I think Pettit deserves more credit than Mikan, because at least he played the majority of his career post shot clock era, but I have a hard time taking those guys seriously in an all-time discussion. During last year's all-time re-draft, someone found footage of a 50s NBA game with Mikan, and it was some truly atrocious basketball. It looked like two bad midwestern high school teams. Pettit was certainly skilled, but I don't think for a second that he was as skilled as guys like Duncan, Barkley, Dirk or McHale.


Pettit was up there though. Rebounding, scoring and passing machine. He was a tall shooting guard playing PF.

DreamShaker
02-24-2014, 04:21 PM
I think Pettit deserves more credit than Mikan, because at least he played the majority of his career post shot clock era, but I have a hard time taking those guys seriously in an all-time discussion. During last year's all-time re-draft, someone found footage of a 50s NBA game with Mikan, and it was some truly atrocious basketball. It looked like two bad midwestern high school teams. Pettit was certainly skilled, but I don't think for a second that he was as skilled as guys like Duncan, Barkley, Dirk or McHale.

He really paved the way for those guys, though. He was a guy who was creative in the way he expanded his game and became a truly all-around player. I consider him the first power forward to embrace the modern concept of an all-around player. And he was great enough to excell at everything he did. I am not sure he could have done more to be great.


Two power forwards that come to mind are Larry Nance and Otis Thorpe, Nance especially. These guys were AMAZING! They would both likely rank among the very best power forwards today, behind only Griffin and Love, or perhaps even on a par with them in Nance's case.

But yeah, lots of great point guards back then: Hardaway, Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Terry Porter, Mark Price. Mark Jackson, Doc Rivers Dana Barros, Mookie Blaylock... these guys would tear it up today. And a lot of them were much better shooters than the point guards today.

That's the truth, Ruth! OT is one of my. favorite players EVER. I loved his one handed outlet passes! He had massive hands, which really helped his game. Tough as nails and underrated.

I had an OT shirt when I was a kid. It was red. I was once confronted by wannabe street thugs who tried to steal my bike and make me take off that shirt cause it was red, but my older brother punked them out. Lol.

GunFactor187
02-24-2014, 04:46 PM
Tom Heinsohn.

From this generation? Probably Shawn Marion.

Walt
02-24-2014, 04:56 PM
Well Dirk is easily top 5, no question about it.

But someone today who comes to mind is Shawn Marion. The guy flat out did it all with Phoenix. He was their most dangerous player imo, even more so than Nash and Amare. His offensse went way down here with us but his defense got even better it seems.

Hellcrooner
02-24-2014, 06:05 PM
in pf
there is Duncan.

and then the rest,

there are TONS of players with a case for top ten, Pettit,De Buschere, Lucas, Mchale,Buck Williams, Karl Malone, Barkley,Rodman,Oakley, Chambers,Webber, KG, Dirk, Pau, Stoudamire now Love and Griffin ....................

Walt
02-24-2014, 06:08 PM
in pf
there is Duncan.

and then the rest,

there are TONS of players with a case for top ten, Pettit,De Buschere, Lucas, Mchale,Buck Williams, Karl Malone, Barkley,Rodman,Oakley, Chambers,Webber, KG, Dirk, Pau, Stoudamire now Love and Griffin ....................

For 2-5 you have Malone, Dirk, Garnett, Barkley and maybe Pettit up for discussion. No one else. Then 6-10 or 15 you have all of those guys. The first 5 I mentioned have easily separated themselves from the rest of the PF.

lol, please
02-24-2014, 06:57 PM
Bird is an example of a forgotten great, forgotten on PSD anyway.

asandhu23
02-24-2014, 07:20 PM
Bird is an example of a forgotten great, forgotten on PSD anyway.

...? No one's forgotten Bird.

asandhu23
02-24-2014, 07:20 PM
Rick Barry is a player people forget. Elgin Baylor as well.

asandhu23
02-24-2014, 07:24 PM
Alex English, David Thompson, Jack Sikma, Mitch Richmond, Mark Price, Bob McAdoo, Gail Goodrich...

slashsnake
02-25-2014, 03:33 AM
What about Charlie Scott? Guy was a 33 a game scorer his 2nd year in the league.. World B Free?

And Spencer Haywood. His career started off for the first 5-7 years looking like he was going to be the greatest PF ever.

Chronz
02-25-2014, 03:56 AM
Care to expand? I honestly don't know much about Hayes, very mixed reactions on him from people who talk about him.

Well lets start by why you think so highly of him. Hes obviously a great player, I think any All-Star has played great, but I dont think hes up there in the PF debate at all but if you want me to boil it down simply, he was a choker and a team cancer at times.

Chronz
02-25-2014, 03:57 AM
Id like to nominate Sleepy Floyd and Fat Lever. Not all time greats but forgotten greats

DreamShaker
02-25-2014, 07:57 AM
Well lets start by why you think so highly of him. Hes obviously a great player, I think any All-Star has played great, but I dont think hes up there in the PF debate at all but if you want me to boil it down simply, he was a choker and a team cancer at times.

I'll clarify by saying I do NOT consider him a top 5 pf. I just feel like he deserves to be in the conversation, even if he is ruled out. He put up big numbers while also playing defense and winning a championship. That is super rare in the grand scheme, especially when you are breaking down positions. Someone asked my why I thought Dirk was better, and I had to think about an answer better than "ummmm...he just was!" But I can buy what you are saying. That is why bare numbers are not the entire story.

JasonJohnHorn
02-25-2014, 05:34 PM
Id like to nominate Sleepy Floyd and Fat Lever. Not all time greats but forgotten greats

I was always a fan ot Layfette! And Ron Harper. And Alex English! I English's rookie card! That Denver team with Michael Adam, Lever, English and Carrol was fun to watch... I'm surprised they didn't do better.

Walt
02-25-2014, 05:36 PM
Derrick Rose soon to be.

tredigs
02-25-2014, 05:56 PM
Derrick Rose soon to be.

...Probably more popular/lauded for doing less than anyone in the games history. We had a 2 year national media campaign centered around a comeback bid that never came to fruition.

JordansBulls
02-25-2014, 05:59 PM
John Havlicek
Sam Jones
Walt Frazier
Dominique Wilkins

COOLbeans
02-25-2014, 09:16 PM
in order of greatness
Moses
Iverson
McHale
Frazier

2nd tier
Sleepy Floyd
Pistol Pete
Tim Hardaway
Doc Rivers

lol, please
02-26-2014, 04:54 AM
It's a shame asandhu23 has turned his back on his own kind and left the Warriors forum.

TylerSL
02-26-2014, 09:08 AM
most recently Wade.

People forget that he is probably a top 20 player ever.

D-Leethal
02-26-2014, 10:16 AM
Before the hype he got after finally getting inducted to the HOF, I think Bernard King was one of them.

D-Leethal
02-26-2014, 10:18 AM
Mark Aguirre

ewing
02-26-2014, 10:20 AM
detlef schrempf getting any love in here?

ewing
02-26-2014, 10:24 AM
I was also big per-vertigo Micheal Finely fan and a big Ricky Pierce fan (that guy just put the ball in hole), and my homie Ced Caballos.

DreamShaker
02-26-2014, 03:52 PM
Detlef was really good. Those Sonics teams gave my Rockets fits back in the days. He was also very good on the Pacers. Gets forgotten with the Kemp-GPbut he deserves much credit.

asandhu23
02-26-2014, 07:28 PM
It's a shame asandhu23 has turned his back on his own kind and left the Warriors forum.

I am a busy man these days.

Bostonjorge
02-27-2014, 03:56 AM
Currant players

Carter
Jermaine O Neal
Marion
Juan Howard
Amare
Stackhouse
Anthony Bennett

Other past player

Vin baker
Glenn Robison
Kemp
Brian grant
Odom
damon stoudamire
Ron Strickland

Ebbs
02-27-2014, 07:06 AM
I can't get over Dirk being out of your top 5. Especially since he's better than KG

ewing
02-27-2014, 07:26 AM
Cliff Robinson and Tom Chambers

D-Leethal
02-27-2014, 11:22 AM
I can't get over Dirk being out of your top 5. Especially since he's better than KG

Guess you don't value defense?

bagwell368
02-27-2014, 12:26 PM
whenever this topic gets brought up the name that comes to my mind first is chet walker

He didn't show up in 1967-68 ECF vs the Celts. He did however show up big time in 1966-67.


some others-bob lanier,jack sikma,gus johnson,spencer haywood,mark aguirre,alex english,wes unseld,walt bellamy,bob mcdoo,buck williams,lou hudson,marques johnson,bob petit,hal greer,i could go on and on with this one haha

Mostly excellent list. I'm not a big English fan, or Belles, but the rest are worthy.

Cheeks, Cedric Maxwell, Paul Silas, Bobby Jones, Wilkes, Nixon, Alvan Adams, etc.

bagwell368
02-27-2014, 12:31 PM
I can't get over Dirk being out of your top 5. Especially since he's better than KG

top tier: Duncan, KG

2nd tier: Barkley, Malone, Dirk, Pettit

metrics don't give enough credit to D. KG is easily in the same highest tier on D as Dirk is on O - but Dirk is nowhere near as good on D as KG is on O.

bagwell368
02-27-2014, 12:34 PM
Currant players

Carter
Jermaine O Neal
Marion
Juan Howard
Amare
Stackhouse
Anthony Bennett

Other past player

Vin baker
Glenn Robison
Kemp
Brian grant
Odom
damon stoudamire
Ron Strickland

Vin Baker? Iineffective offensive player, meh defender, and ruined the 2nd half of his career with booze. Ah, no. Like most of the rest of them.

PrettyBoyJ
02-27-2014, 12:43 PM
I think Rick Barry is often forgotten when talking about all time greats

bagwell368
02-27-2014, 03:24 PM
I think Rick Barry is often forgotten when talking about all time greats

Hmmm.. HOF'er. His "problem" is about 7 guys that have posted here in the last year saw the guy play.

Raidergrant
02-28-2014, 02:25 AM
The Admiral David Robinson seems to get lost in the shuffle. Guy was absolutely great. Also, being a homer, Mitch Richmond was possibly the second best 2 guard behind Jordan in that era.

slashsnake
02-28-2014, 04:17 AM
The Admiral David Robinson seems to get lost in the shuffle. Guy was absolutely great. Also, being a homer, Mitch Richmond was possibly the second best 2 guard behind Jordan in that era.

Robinson and sean elliott both. Kind of hard for that group there with the group under Popovich which followed.

On Richmond, he was a great one. Kind of hard to put him over Reggie Miller and Clyde Drexler, but it was those three that filled in the next tier after Jordan.

Goose17
02-28-2014, 08:55 AM
Richmond was good, glad to see him mentioned.