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View Full Version : Lebron James passes Michael Jordan in career assists (regular season)



TDE
02-19-2014, 03:08 PM
Next up is rebounds, 700 to go. GOAT potential :clap:

MJ - 5633
Lebron - 5636

Players at his postion:

Pippen - 6135
Havlicek - 6114
Bird - 5695

The only other non-guard ahead of him is Kareem (5660).

Jroz
02-19-2014, 03:25 PM
I could be wrong but isn't MJ considered a "guard" (SG)..and LeBron is a "forward" (SF or PF)

Slug3
02-19-2014, 03:27 PM
I could be wrong but isn't MJ considered a "guard" (SG)..and LeBron is a "forward" (SF or PF)

Yes, but MJ layed forward when on the Wizards.

TDE
02-19-2014, 03:27 PM
What does that have to do with assist? both are wing players

blastmasta26
02-19-2014, 03:43 PM
It'll be more of an accomplishment when he passes Pippen. He had a more similar point forward role than Jordan.

Ezio
02-19-2014, 04:14 PM
I don't get why this worth mentioning, Pippen was the better passer between he and MJ.

koreancabbage
02-19-2014, 04:17 PM
he'll prob pass Bird this year, Pippen and Havlicek next year

He'll prob pass Jordan in 1.5 years

numba1CHANGsta
02-19-2014, 04:34 PM
Does a post really need to be made everytime LeBron passes someone on a stat list? Post one when he's in the top 5 all-time in the assist list, cuz no one cares!

koreancabbage
02-19-2014, 04:43 PM
Does a post really need to be made everytime LeBron passes someone on a stat list? Post one when he's in the top 5 all-time in the assist list, cuz no one cares!

you don't care. so don't post. people are gonna keep posting and making threads. not saying if this thread is relevant in the NBA forum but you keep bumping this to the top if you post in it

Tony_Starks
02-19-2014, 04:44 PM
So a pass first player passed a shoot first player in assist? Cool story bro....

ManRam
02-19-2014, 04:45 PM
I mean, LeBron's always been more of a play-maker and a far superior passer. MJ was more of a cut throat scorer. This isn't anything that is terribly impressive, even if "Michael Jordan" is involved.

Two very different players.

abe_froman
02-19-2014, 04:52 PM
....and?

mj wasnt that much of a passer/playmaker(outside that one year doug collins had mj play more of point gaurd role),lebron has a completely different game than him and it has no baring on who's better/best ....i'm actually pretty surprised it took lebron this long to pass mj in assists/and surprised mj had that many

Slade123
02-19-2014, 04:58 PM
He'll prob pass Jordan in 1.5 years

What?! This thread is about LBJ just passing MJ in assists.

Aust
02-19-2014, 05:03 PM
Only because MJ was involved... ok

seikou8
02-19-2014, 05:04 PM
good for him it will be nice when he passes him in points that is the most impressive

goingfor28
02-19-2014, 05:06 PM
:yawn:

bbcmillionaire
02-19-2014, 05:40 PM
Ok.... lol

0nekhmer
02-19-2014, 06:18 PM
Interesting. So MJ wasn't the most complete player people claim be was. Now if LBJ passed magic that would be a feat

kozelkid
02-19-2014, 06:47 PM
I mean, LeBron's always been more of a play-maker and a far superior passer. MJ was more of a cut throat scorer. This isn't anything that is terribly impressive, even if "Michael Jordan" is involved.

Two very different players.

Not quite true.

MJ has shown remarkable passing skills early in his career, but with the triangle, he was better off in the post with Pippen handling the point-forward position. In fact, back in 89, there was a point when Collins decided to play MJ at the point for about a month (I think it was March). Needless to say, MJ was averaging over 10 apg. Point is, MJ stopped having the luxury of being the primary ballhandler while everyone else spaces out after the first third of his career or so. A role that Lebron continues to be utilized to this day; though I do think (in spite of Miami's championships) they would still be better off getting more movement and off the ball play from both Lebron and Wade. I think they'd be even more deadly then.

Anyway, all this to say that Lebron could very well be the one with the superior vision, but MJ undoubtedly had elite vision and playmaking ability for a wing. To suggest that one is a "far superior" passer couldn't be more wrong.

ManRam
02-19-2014, 07:01 PM
Not quite true.

MJ has shown remarkable passing skills early in his career, but with the triangle, he was better off in the post with Pippen handling the point-forward position. In fact, back in 89, there was a point when Collins decided to play MJ at the point for about a month (I think it was March). Needless to say, MJ was averaging over 10 apg. Point is, MJ stopped having the luxury of being the primary ballhandler while everyone else spaces out after the first third of his career or so. A role that Lebron continues to be utilized to this day; though I do think (in spite of Miami's championships) they would still be better off getting more movement and off the ball play from both Lebron and Wade. I think they'd be even more deadly then.

Anyway, all this to say that Lebron could very well be the one with the superior vision, but MJ undoubtedly had elite vision and playmaking ability for a wing. To suggest that one is a "far superior" passer couldn't be more wrong.

Very true. I often do admittedly overlook his passing abilities, because he certainly had them. I do genuinely think LeBron is a generational passing talent considering his size. The ease of which he pulls of highly difficult and creative passes is pretty impressive. I think we take it for granted at times, but watching him zip cross court passes with such force and accuracy, or bounce passes through traffic, or full court bombs, or especially those amazing kick-out passes he does with his body going one way, twisting another way and passing the ball a differen way...well, I think, again, it's generational.

Jordan too was definitely a great passer, and wasn't tasked with the same role/duty LeBron is often tasked with in that regard, in large part because of his system.


I meant it as no slight to Jordan. I don't really care about all-time counting stat standings in general. This means almost nothing at all to me. There's never been a good reason to fault Jordan for losing out on a longevity battle with the guys who have come after him. He's gonna lose a lot more to LeBron, and that's not gonna mean much to me.

Mr_Jones
02-19-2014, 07:10 PM
Comparisons, comparisons, comparisons.

Just let them play. Stop comparing.

kozelkid
02-19-2014, 07:15 PM
Very true. I often do admittedly overlook his passing abilities, because he certainly had them. I do genuinely think LeBron is a generational passing talent considering his size. The ease of which he pulls of highly difficult and creative passes is pretty impressive. I think we take it for granted at times, but watching him zip cross court passes with such force and accuracy, or bounce passes through traffic, or full court bombs, or especially those amazing kick-out passes he does with his body going one way, twisting another way and passing the ball a differen way...well, I think, again, it's generational.

Jordan too was definitely a great passer, and wasn't tasked with the same role/duty LeBron is often tasked with in that regard, in large part because of his system.


I meant it as no slight to Jordan. I don't really care about all-time counting stat standings in general. This means almost nothing at all to me. There's never been a good reason to fault Jordan for losing out on a longevity battle with the guys who have come after him. He's gonna lose a lot more to LeBron, and that's not gonna mean much to me.

No disagreements here. There are only a handful of players with that size in the history of the NBA with the type of vision that Lebron displays regularly. You could put maybe Magic, Oscar (though I never got to see him so this is judging purely based on those who have and his numbers), MJ, and perhaps T-mac.

But ya, I expect Lebron to beat out MJ in just about all cumulative raw career numbers barring something completely unexpected. Not that it means anything aside from the fact that one player will have played more seasons than the other.

Shammyguy3
02-19-2014, 07:44 PM
Lebron's played in 816 games, versus Jordan who (excluding Wizards years) played in 930 games.
Lebron in those games has 5,636 assists (6.9 per game). Jordan in those games had 5,012 assists (5.4 per game)


Just to show the total number of games played. It makes sense, considering their respective roles and the types of offenses that they fit best in

NoahH
02-19-2014, 07:54 PM
Well no surprise here, Lebron has higher career avg in assists.

i think LeBron will finish ahead of MJ in points-assists-rebounds-blocks (probably not steals) when its all said and done.

Tony_Starks
02-19-2014, 07:58 PM
Interesting. So MJ wasn't the most complete player people claim be was. Now if LBJ passed magic that would be a feat

Well you know people make MJ a omnipotent basketball God but in fairness to him he did play in the triangle. No one player, even a PG, is going to rack up big time assist in the triangle because of how the offense is structured.

But you're right, you can't even compare the two. Lebron is basically a point forward. Now if he passes Magic I would be impressed.

Lo Porto
02-19-2014, 10:59 PM
It has become almost comical how throughout the years people just make excuses for Jordan whenever anybody points out a soft spot. "He went to play baseball", "its because the triangle offense", "its because Pippen was the passer", whatever.....

If LeBron played in the triangle offense with those super teams MJ had under Phil Jackson, he would average more assists than he already does.

NBA_Starter
02-19-2014, 11:01 PM
Just another Great accomplishment.

kozelkid
02-19-2014, 11:24 PM
It has become almost comical how throughout the years people just make excuses for Jordan whenever anybody points out a soft spot. "He went to play baseball", "its because the triangle offense", "its because Pippen was the passer", whatever.....

If LeBron played in the triangle offense with those super teams MJ had under Phil Jackson, he would average more assists than he already does.

Sounds like you don't understand the triangle offense.

If he played in the post like MJ (or Shaq), he wouldn't even come close to his current averages. It's a big reason why MJ went from 6-8 apg early in his career to 4-5.

Pippen played the role of facilitator and Lebron would most likely play that role as well and even then I think his APG's would go down cause he currently plays in an ideal offense where he can drive in or kick it out (Though it ain't always ideal come playoff time and a big reason why we've seen Miami's offense stall many times in the playoffs). It's also what as held him back in his Cav days.

tmacsc2
02-19-2014, 11:29 PM
He will pass jordan in every statistical category when his career is finished. IMO

king4day
02-20-2014, 12:36 AM
Imagine MJ jumped straight to the NBA out of High School? LBJ will always have a 3 year advantage with regards to stats.

mngopher35
02-20-2014, 01:40 AM
Sounds like you don't understand the triangle offense.

If he played in the post like MJ (or Shaq), he wouldn't even come close to his current averages. It's a big reason why MJ went from 6-8 apg early in his career to 4-5.

Pippen played the role of facilitator and Lebron would most likely play that role as well and even then I think his APG's would go down cause he currently plays in an ideal offense where he can drive in or kick it out (Though it ain't always ideal come playoff time and a big reason why we've seen Miami's offense stall many times in the playoffs). It's also what as held him back in his Cav days.

I would love to hear an in depth analysis on this. Many times I see people bringing up the triangle and using it to say it held certain players back etc. What I see however is 3 top 10 players all time with fantastic stats (and 11 championships from 1991-2010). I think the triangle offense should be considered an advantage for those teams/players personally.

From what I can tell Phil was a master at using the triangle to take advantage of the best match ups in the post (which was almost always a star) while also putting role players in position to succeed (jump shooters get the ball off of movement setting them up to catch and shoot etc). To say Jordan dropped in assists like that is a little odd too. He had years of 5.9, 4.6, 5.9, 8 assists before the triangle and then 6.3, 5.5, 6.1, 5.5 after (with a slight drop in turnover rate these years too).

I understand the basic concept and sharing the ball duties with Pippen but I don't really see much in terms of it hurting Jordan statistically (and his usage wasn't affected). Remember the years that they ran the triangle they also were winning rings which normally means more talent to spread the ball around anyways (in this case development of young scottie and grant). Anyone can answer this, I would really like to hear an explanation because I could definitely be wrong here.

FlashBolt
02-20-2014, 02:48 AM
Not impressed tbh. LeBron at the end of his career will surpass a lot of legends - including MJ. I think the most amazing part about LeBron is his versatility and ability to do everything at a high level. You never saw that in any other player in any era. Maybe MJ, KG, and Hakeem but neither guys were at that level of sheer package. I mean many don't consider him a scorer but he's third all time in PPG. KD will certainly pass him at bump LeBron to fourth but for someone who isn't labeled a scorer, how impressive is that?

abe_froman
02-20-2014, 02:55 AM
He will pass jordan in every statistical category when his career is finished. IMO

doubtful.but he should/will pass him every cumulative category,as lebron came straight from high school and mj basically missed a year with a broken foot and missed four and half years with his various retirements

effen5
02-20-2014, 02:56 AM
Not impressed tbh. LeBron at the end of his career will surpass a lot of legends - including MJ. I think the most amazing part about LeBron is his versatility and ability to do everything at a high level. You never saw that in any other player in any era. Maybe MJ, KG, and Hakeem but neither guys were at that level of sheer package. I mean many don't consider him a scorer but he's third all time in PPG. KD will certainly pass him at bump LeBron to fourth but for someone who isn't labeled a scorer, how impressive is that?


Not really impressed...especially in a league where its a scoring league now and the conference he plays in is trash.

IKnowHoops
02-20-2014, 04:16 AM
Does a post really need to be made everytime LeBron passes someone on a stat list? Post one when he's in the top 5 all-time in the assist list, cuz no one cares!

LOL, dude your like the guys that hate Floyd Mayweather, but still tune in to every fight.

Rndy
02-20-2014, 04:21 AM
He'll never be Jordan I don't care if I have to pull a Tonya Harding he'll never get to his level.

IKnowHoops
02-20-2014, 04:28 AM
Imagine MJ jumped straight to the NBA out of High School? LBJ will always have a 3 year advantage with regards to stats.

He probably wouldn't have started

IKnowHoops
02-20-2014, 04:29 AM
Not really impressed...especially in a league where its a scoring league now and the conference he plays in is trash.

Teams scored more in Jordan's era

TmacBryant
02-20-2014, 05:30 AM
What does that have to do with assist? both are wing players

Yeah but Jordan wasn't really a facilitator, that wasn't his main concern.

jericho
02-20-2014, 10:53 AM
Add Content

Walt
02-20-2014, 01:08 PM
This isn't a surprise since Lebron's best attribute is arguably his passing.

RaiderLakersA's
02-20-2014, 02:37 PM
So a pass first player passed a shoot first player in assist? Cool story bro....

Winner!

These stats won't really have much impact until LeBron gets at or near the top.

b@llhog24
02-21-2014, 03:20 AM
So Bron is a better passer than MJ? No way!

b@llhog24
02-21-2014, 03:21 AM
But putting my douchedom aside this just reaffirms that we're watching one of the best to ever lace them up. Enjoy it folks, cause he's not gonna be around for much longer.

rex.reyesiii
02-21-2014, 03:42 AM
Does this also mean, LBJ has the better team mates to pass to? I mean finish?

MetroMan
02-21-2014, 05:49 AM
Hate him or love him, Lebron will be number 1 in MANY categories.

1) Michael Jordan

1-A) Lebron James

KingstonHawke
02-21-2014, 06:24 AM
I don't get why this worth mentioning, Pippen was the better passer between he and MJ.

Because people treat MJ like some mythical deity that was better than everyone at everything.

FlashBolt
02-21-2014, 06:32 AM
Pippen= Better passer, playmaker, and defender.
Rodman= Better rebounder
Jordan= Better leader, scorer.

LeBron= Better passer, playmaker, rebounder, defender, and scorer than anyone in Miami.

> You do the calculations. LeBron does more for his team than anyone else.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-21-2014, 11:52 PM
Jordan faced real completion,while lebron has played in the weakest conference in league history. Nothing to see here folks.

5ass
02-22-2014, 12:29 AM
Jordan faced real completion,while lebron has played in the weakest conference in league history. Nothing to see here folks.

:pity::violin:

hotdalton18
02-22-2014, 01:06 AM
So a pass first player passed a shoot first player in assist? Cool story bro....


Stop being salty and just accept the king lol

TDE
02-22-2014, 06:54 AM
Jordan faced real completion,while lebron has played in the weakest conference in league history. Nothing to see here folks.

:laugh2:

slashsnake
02-22-2014, 07:06 AM
well the comparisons to Jordan won't stop until his career is over. Then the same will be on for Durant or whomever the next superstar is.

What I would call more impressive is that he's one of three non PG's to have over 4000 assists before his 30th birthday.

Kobe had 4002
Drexler had 4114
Lebron has 5639

mngopher35
02-22-2014, 01:39 PM
well the comparisons to Jordan won't stop until his career is over. Then the same will be on for Durant or whomever the next superstar is.

What I would call more impressive is that he's one of three non PG's to have over 4000 assists before his 30th birthday.

Kobe had 4002
Drexler had 4114
Lebron has 5639

Kind of but both Lebron and Kobe on that list came into the league at 18/19 which gives them more years to rack up stats than other players. Wade, Bird, Jordan etc all came in roughly 3 years or more older making that feat near impossible. I would find it more impressive if they had so many assists over a 8 years span etc than just counting numbers where some people just had more time to rack up totals.

MetroMan
02-22-2014, 02:30 PM
Jordan faced real completion,while lebron has played in the weakest conference in league history. Nothing to see here folks.

But He still BEATS the best of the western conference has to offer in the finals

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-22-2014, 04:51 PM
Jordan faced real completion,while lebron has played in the weakest conference in league history. Nothing to see here folks.

But He still BEATS the best of the western conference has to offer in the finals

He's 2-2,and would be 1-3if Ray Allen didn't hit the most clutch shot in basketball history. Check mate

mngopher35
02-22-2014, 05:00 PM
He's 2-2,and would be 1-3if Ray Allen didn't hit the most clutch shot in basketball history. Check mate

haha you are ridiculous. Let me guess, you think Lebron is the only person who has had a teammate step up big late in the game. It is literally one shot, it would be much more beneficial to have players stepping up throughout. Lebron's great 4th quarter is the reason they were even in the game.

ryder78c
02-22-2014, 05:12 PM
add in age difference

once he's #1 in almost all all-time categories he'll be goat right now i put him ahead of bird on my all time list LBJ is the best SF to ever play the game and NO way shape or form am i a Lebron Homer either but put lebron in that ERA of time he would of been beyond called the GOAT with everything the guy has done since the age of 18 i put him ahead of KOBE in GOAT list

ryder78c
02-22-2014, 05:23 PM
Jordan faced real completion,while lebron has played in the weakest conference in league history. Nothing to see here folks.

but walks all over the west when he plays them, must not of watched much MJ huh he missed big shots he played like **** MJ wasnt scoring 55 every night he had off nights also

People act like MJ thru up any shot and made it MJ had a All star team and took pay cuts to have everyone stay together and was called weak because he couldnt do it without his all star team

Sinattle
02-22-2014, 06:20 PM
Lebron's also better at flopping

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-22-2014, 08:08 PM
He's 2-2,and would be 1-3if Ray Allen didn't hit the most clutch shot in basketball history. Check mate

haha you are ridiculous. Let me guess, you think Lebron is the only person who has had a teammate step up big late in the game. It is literally one shot, it would be much more beneficial to have players stepping up throughout. Lebron's great 4th quarter is the reason they were even in the game.

No but lebron only beats up on weak competition in the playoffs, it might have been one shot, but it was the biggest shot in basketball history.. Go watch the game again, lebron choked the final three minutes away and missed the biggest shot of his career to tie the game. Lucky ray ray saved his legacy.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
Jordan faced real completion,while lebron has played in the weakest conference in league history. Nothing to see here folks.

but walks all over the west when he plays them, must not of watched much MJ huh he missed big shots he played like **** MJ wasnt scoring 55 every night he had off nights also

People act like MJ thru up any shot and made it MJ had a All star team and took pay cuts to have everyone stay together and was called weak because he couldnt do it without his all star team

2-2 in the finals vs the west is walking all over them huh? Good to know. Not to mention he'd be 1-3 if he didn't have the greatest three point shooter of all time to save him.

mngopher35
02-22-2014, 08:38 PM
No but lebron only beats up on weak competition in the playoffs, it might have been one shot, but it was the biggest shot in basketball history.. Go watch the game again, lebron choked the final three minutes away and missed the biggest shot of his career to tie the game. Lucky ray ray saved his legacy.

I've seen the game and he dominated the 4th to keep his team in that position. Many all time greats have had others make shots to win or keep their teams in games (as you should definitely know). In fact, some have needed players to step up for more than just one shot.

If you have any evidence of the weakest competition ever feel free to add actual context. Sure he had an easy couple of first rounds but that isn't as uncommon as you might think (especially throughout history). He had some tough match-ups in ecf and finals though, definitely not weakest competition ever.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-22-2014, 11:22 PM
No but lebron only beats up on weak competition in the playoffs, it might have been one shot, but it was the biggest shot in basketball history.. Go watch the game again, lebron choked the final three minutes away and missed the biggest shot of his career to tie the game. Lucky ray ray saved his legacy.

I've seen the game and he dominated the 4th to keep his team in that position. Many all time greats have had others make shots to win or keep their teams in games (as you should definitely know). In fact, some have needed players to step up for more than just one shot.

If you have any evidence of the weakest competition ever feel free to add actual context. Sure he had an easy couple of first rounds but that isn't as uncommon as you might think (especially throughout history). He had some tough match-ups in ecf and finals though, definitely not weakest competition ever.

Compare the teams Kobe and Duncan have played against to the teams Lebron has faced over the years. The difference is beyond laughable.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2014, 11:29 PM
I've seen the game and he dominated the 4th to keep his team in that position. Many all time greats have had others make shots to win or keep their teams in games (as you should definitely know). In fact, some have needed players to step up for more than just one shot.

If you have any evidence of the weakest competition ever feel free to add actual context. Sure he had an easy couple of first rounds but that isn't as uncommon as you might think (especially throughout history). He had some tough match-ups in ecf and finals though, definitely not weakest competition ever.

remember the post I had where I showed multiple role players bailing out superstars in the playoffs?

Don't bother. He thinks LeBron has had Bird/Magic/Duncan/Kobe help since he was 18.

slashsnake
02-23-2014, 02:50 AM
No but lebron only beats up on weak competition in the playoffs, it might have been one shot, but it was the biggest shot in basketball history.. Go watch the game again, lebron choked the final three minutes away and missed the biggest shot of his career to tie the game. Lucky ray ray saved his legacy.

lol... You are talking about the game Lebron assisted on, or scored the first 6 points in OT for right? Or the same game he hit a 3 to make it a 1 possession game with 20 seconds left in? Had he not been carrying that team. Ray Allen's 1-6 night with 1 points going into the final minute wouldn't have mattered.

Bosh, Wade, and Allen had 24 combined points going into the final seconds of regulation in that game and Lebron, with 30 points, a triple double, 3 steals and a block is the reason you think they were going to lose? Choking is Bosh averaging less than 1 point a quarter for the final 6 quarters of that series and still getting a ring out of it.

And weak competition? The Spurs, Pacers, Celtics, Pistons (just after winning their championship), and Thunder are weak?

I am looking at Kobe's teams. Nets, Sixers, Pacers, Magic, Celtics. Really, those are the teams that look better than the Spurs and Thunder? Kobe lost to a Celtics team 4-2 that Lebron took to a 4-3 series against in the same year, that makes them weak? Kobe was swept by a spurs team Lebron beat in the Finals. Kobe was swept by a Mavericks team Lebron won 2 games against in a series. If your point is that Kobe can't win games over the same level of playoff teams Lebron can, well I think you are making it. Thanks for asking me to look that one up.

He'd probably be 1-3 if Ray missed that shot. If his 3 HOF potential teammates were able to score more than 8 points a game, it probably doesn't come down to that shot either. If he didn't have the team which immediately went on to set an NBA record for consecutive losses the minute he left, he'd probably be 6-1 in the finals too.

mngopher35
02-23-2014, 02:56 AM
Compare the teams Kobe and Duncan have played against to the teams Lebron has faced over the years. The difference is beyond laughable.

Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Ibaka were definitely better than any team Kobe faced in 09. Dwight and Turk/Rashard? or Billups,Carmelo,birdman (only time this team even made it past 1st round, lost in 6 to utah following year)? In 2007 Duncan (well maybe parker?) lead his team over a Cavs team where Illgauskus/Hughes was the 2nd/3rd options.

Now if you want actual well built teams instead of talent look at the Spurs/Pacers he beat last year. I am not saying that Lebron has faced the toughest competition ever but it certainly wasn't the weakest either. Both of the players you mentioned have won rings vs weaker competition imo (let alone ever), you still have yet to bring any sort of support for your claim.

I know you don't usually like to add anything with substance though so feel free to ignore a debate while you continue spewing nonsense and co-signing as usual.

mngopher35
02-23-2014, 02:58 AM
remember the post I had where I showed multiple role players bailing out superstars in the playoffs?

Don't bother. He thinks LeBron has had Bird/Magic/Duncan/Kobe help since he was 18.

I know, every now and then I just have to call him out though. He will most likely ignore everything and continue his normal path.

mngopher35
02-23-2014, 03:04 AM
lol... You are talking about the game Lebron assisted on, or scored the first 6 points in OT for right? Or the same game he hit a 3 to make it a 1 possession game with 20 seconds left in? Had he not been carrying that team. Ray Allen's 2-7 night with 6 points going into the final minute wouldn't have mattered.

And weak competition? The Spurs, Pacers, Celtics, Pistons (just after winning their championship), and Thunder are weak?

I am looking at Kobe's teams. Nets, Sixers, Pacers, Magic. Really, those are the teams that look better than the Spurs and Thunder? Kobe lost to a Celtics team 4-2 that Lebron took to a 4-3 series against in the same year. Kobe was swept by a spurs team Lebron beat in the Finals. Kobe was swept by a Mavericks team Lebron won 2 games against in a series. If your point is that Kobe can't win games over the same level of playoff teams Lebron can, well I think you are making it. Thanks for asking me to look that one up.

He'd probably be 1-3 if Ray missed that shot. If he didn't have the team which immediately went on to set an NBA record for consecutive losses the minute he left, he'd probably be 6-1 in the finals too. What is your point, situations are what they are and in the last two years he's won as many finals MVP's as Kobe has in his 18 year career.

There is no need to exaggerate the truth when responding to someone like him. Kobe didn't play against that Spurs team when the Lakers lost, he was injured. Also, while the Heat won 2 games vs. the Mavs Lebron had a bad series (like really, really bad for his standards). It had more to do with his team playing well than him specifically in this case.

slashsnake
02-23-2014, 03:12 AM
That's right, forgot his injuries there.

The guys just not with it to think those teams were weak though.

mngopher35
02-23-2014, 03:20 AM
That's right, forgot his injuries there.

The guys just not with it to think those teams were weak though.

I agree, he generally likes to make those types of statements without any sort of evidence or support. He just really dislikes Lebron and really likes the Lakers/Kobe (to put it mildly).

slashsnake
02-23-2014, 03:31 AM
So saying Lebron in the last two years has been the leader for as many championship teams as Kobe in his 18 year career would probably upset him huh?

Just kidding, there's no real reason you can't like both of those guys. Kobe really showed he could lead a team after Shaq left and they got him some help inside. Both guys made choices that were the best for them of what team they would be willing to play for. Both just want to win, and both are all time greats.